OT legal stuff
Does anyone know how it is best legally to record that a user clicked the check box I agree to the terms and privacy policy of this web site? Is it sufficient to just mark a field in a database and record the date time? Or is there a more official way of recording that they agreed to the terms? ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323394 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: OT legal stuff
Best thing you can do is store the data and time of the acceptance, plus a full copy of the terms they agreed to. If the TCs on the site change at any point you need to know which ones people agreed to, and whether they need to be asked to agree to new ones. This can be more or less important depending on the nature of the site but it's worth doing just in case. Toby On 12/06/2009, at 12:47 AM, Chad Gray wrote: Does anyone know how it is best legally to record that a user clicked the check box I agree to the terms and privacy policy of this web site? Is it sufficient to just mark a field in a database and record the date time? Or is there a more official way of recording that they agreed to the terms? ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323395 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: OT legal stuff
Does anyone know how it is best legally to record that a user clicked the check box I agree to the terms and privacy policy of this web site? I think you're over-complicating it. I mean, look at PayPal. When you sign up, there is a checkbox that says I agree to the terms. You can't create an account without checking it, so if they have an account, logically, they must have agreed to the terms. Just make a note of the time when the account was created. As for updates to the terms, I've never had to re-agree to their terms. The terms have a clause that say where updates will be posted, and how they will notify me (usually by a notice on their web site). As the user, it is my responsibility to keep up-to-date with the terms after they have notified me about a change. If I continue using the site after the new terms go into affect, then I implicitly agree to the updates. I once worked on a site once where they made this into a huge issue. A full copy of the terms were stored with every account, and any time they made any changes, the user had to be shown a new copy, agree to the new terms, have another full copy stored, etc. Instead of a checkbox, they had to type their name into a text box that was placed within a line that said something like, I, [text field], agree to the terms of service as listed above, yadda yadda... It was a nightmare and the users complained about it regularly. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be unless you have a really compelling legal reason to do so (like, your site handles nuclear waste shipments or something). -Justin ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323396 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: OT legal stuff
In addition to what others have said - I always record their IP address that they were using at the time. This usually only come in handy if your legitimate users start flagging no-spam emails as spam in their AOL accounts. We have this happen all the time. A user signs up, checks yes to receive emails, creates a saved search that emails them when houses come on the market that match their search criteria and then flag it as spam. It's sort of a tripple opt in and they still managed to black list us at AOL. Only after we provided enough proof to AOL and showed them all the steps a user needs to go through to get emailed and then showed them the IP address the users were using when the signed up did AOL change us to the white list and figured out thier users were getting what tehy asked for. I can see other times for CYA purposes if you have to prove the end user computer was the one that was really used at time of agreement. Of course this does not work so well with proxies and dynamic IP's, but RIAA seems to have no problem with that part. ;-) In addition, leagally required really depends on the business your conducting. Retail sales maybe not as much is needed. An online bank would have piles of legal regulations to fulfill. If the terms of agreement are the same for every type of user then I don't see a need to store a copy for every user as one person said they did at one job. If the terms are different per user or user type then saving a copy becomes more important. Again this is business specific. Your best bet would be to contact your company lawyer (if they have one) and find out what they think would be required for the type of business your conducting. Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Justin Scott jscott-li...@gravityfree.com wrote: Does anyone know how it is best legally to record that a user clicked the check box I agree to the terms and privacy policy of this web site? I think you're over-complicating it. I mean, look at PayPal. When you sign up, there is a checkbox that says I agree to the terms. You can't create an account without checking it, so if they have an account, logically, they must have agreed to the terms. Just make a note of the time when the account was created. As for updates to the terms, I've never had to re-agree to their terms. The terms have a clause that say where updates will be posted, and how they will notify me (usually by a notice on their web site). As the user, it is my responsibility to keep up-to-date with the terms after they have notified me about a change. If I continue using the site after the new terms go into affect, then I implicitly agree to the updates. I once worked on a site once where they made this into a huge issue. A full copy of the terms were stored with every account, and any time they made any changes, the user had to be shown a new copy, agree to the new terms, have another full copy stored, etc. Instead of a checkbox, they had to type their name into a text box that was placed within a line that said something like, I, [text field], agree to the terms of service as listed above, yadda yadda... It was a nightmare and the users complained about it regularly. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be unless you have a really compelling legal reason to do so (like, your site handles nuclear waste shipments or something). -Justin ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323400 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: OT legal stuff
I've had really paranoid customers who've had me add an open text field, where the customer was required to type out their full name and then check the I Agree box... Not sure it actually makes it anymore legally binding but it made my customer happy. I suppose every little thing you can add (within reason) gives you just a bit more proof that the end user meant to sign up for your service. =] -- Alan Rother Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323401 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: OT legal stuff
You might also force the user to type their initials or their name so that it's more than just a mouse click. -Original Message- From: Chad Gray [mailto:cg...@careyweb.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: cf-talk Subject: OT legal stuff Does anyone know how it is best legally to record that a user clicked the check box I agree to the terms and privacy policy of this web site? Is it sufficient to just mark a field in a database and record the date time? Or is there a more official way of recording that they agreed to the terms? ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323406 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
SOT: Any legal issue saving some CC info?
Hi, I was wondering if there are any legal issues saving the last 4 digits and expiry dates of a CC as part of a transaction? Should they be encrypted? Thank you Victor ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:310108 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Any legal issue saving some CC info?
I was wondering if there are any legal issues saving the last 4 digits and expiry dates of a CC as part of a transaction? Should they be encrypted? See the PCI-DSS (Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards). There are a lot of contractual regulations that have to be met if you're processing credit card transactions. https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/ https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/security_standards/pci_dss.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_DSS -Justin Scott ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:310109 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
legal resources re site code ownership
I hope this isn't too far off topic. does anyone have any online resources that talks about site code ownership, particularly when no written contract exists Thanks Tim ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:268176 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: legal resources re site code ownership
LEGAL DISCLAIMER I AM NOT A LAWYER AND ANYTHING I SAY IN THIS EMAIL IS JUST MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS. In my experience, if you don't have a contract specifically stating that YOU the developer own all the rights to the code you wrote, then whomever paid you to do it owns it completely and entirely, forever. You may not even be able to re-use some of it if you wanted to. This is of course based on the typical scenario of working for a company as a full time employee. Most states recognize, that any work you do while employed by someone is owned by them, not you. Without a clearly written out contract, my best GUESS is that you don't have any rights to your work. -- Alan Rother Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:268214 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: legal resources re site code ownership
Tim Laureska wrote: I hope this isn't too far off topic. does anyone have any online resources that talks about site code ownership, particularly when no written contract exists This is a pretty good overview... http://www.freibrun.com/articles/articl0.htm basically, my understanding is that if you did a site as a contractor (not an employee), it was not part of a larger work, and there was no contract specifically stating that the client would own the code, then you still have copyright. But there are gray areas, and you should talk to a lawyer. And you should always have a written contract...even with your mother. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:268223 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: legal resources re site code ownership
Wow, great article. Thanks Jim. Bottom line... Get it in writing On 1/31/07, Jim Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Laureska wrote: I hope this isn't too far off topic. does anyone have any online resources that talks about site code ownership, particularly when no written contract exists This is a pretty good overview... http://www.freibrun.com/articles/articl0.htm basically, my understanding is that if you did a site as a contractor (not an employee), it was not part of a larger work, and there was no contract specifically stating that the client would own the code, then you still have copyright. But there are gray areas, and you should talk to a lawyer. And you should always have a written contract...even with your mother. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:268239 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
Just to add, one company which i think make good use of this by incoporating their name is Hotchilli.com (and i think as well that it is CF that they use) e.g. http://hotchilli.com/hosting/domains.hot Andy www.andyjarrett.co.uk - Original Message - From: Marco Antonio C. Santos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:03:35 -0300 Subject: Re: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not? To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanx Jim We're using W2K3 Server/IIS 6/CFMX 6.1 This link by Ben Forta is very cool http://forta.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=eentry=681 Thanx all Marco On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:54:28 -0400, Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no legalities concerning this at all - you can change the extension to whatever you like. You would do this in the web server (not CF) - let us know what server you're using and somebody should be able to tell you how to change it.I've got an old article detailing how to do this in IIS 5 (and some reasons why you might want to) that I think is applicable to later versions of IIS (no promises): http://www.depressedpress.com/depressedpress/Content/Development/ColdFusion/ Articles/MultipleExtensions/Index.cfm Jim Davis _ From: Marco Antonio C. Santos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not? Hi it's possible to change the CF extensions(.cfm) to .anything??? It's legal or not? What's the law point of view? And MM? Thanx [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
Hi it's possible to change the CF extensions(.cfm) to .anything??? It's legal or not? What's the law point of view? And MM? Thanx Marco [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
It's legal and widely used. Of course this throws off stats like netcraft makes, but you can do it. In fact I think you can find instructions at macromedia.com, or at least forta.com -nathan strutz http://www.dopefly.com/ Marco Antonio C. Santos wrote: Hi it's possible to change the CF extensions(.cfm) to .anything??? It's legal or not? What's the law point of view? And MM? Thanx Marco [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
No problems what so ever with it - can be a good idea to obscure technology being used. Make the changes in IIS and web.xml as required. Elliot [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
There is no legalities concerning this at all - you can change the extension to whatever you like. You would do this in the web server (not CF) - let us know what server you're using and somebody should be able to tell you how to change it.I've got an old article detailing how to do this in IIS 5 (and some reasons why you might want to) that I think is applicable to later versions of IIS (no promises): http://www.depressedpress.com/depressedpress/Content/Development/ColdFusion/ Articles/MultipleExtensions/Index.cfm Jim Davis _ From: Marco Antonio C. Santos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not? Hi it's possible to change the CF extensions(.cfm) to .anything??? It's legal or not? What's the law point of view? And MM? Thanx [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not?
Thanx Jim We're using W2K3 Server/IIS 6/CFMX 6.1 This link by Ben Forta is very cool http://forta.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=eentry=681 Thanx all Marco On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:54:28 -0400, Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no legalities concerning this at all - you can change the extension to whatever you like. You would do this in the web server (not CF) - let us know what server you're using and somebody should be able to tell you how to change it.I've got an old article detailing how to do this in IIS 5 (and some reasons why you might want to) that I think is applicable to later versions of IIS (no promises): http://www.depressedpress.com/depressedpress/Content/Development/ColdFusion/ Articles/MultipleExtensions/Index.cfm Jim Davis _ From: Marco Antonio C. Santos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Change .cfm to .xxx - Legal or not? Hi it's possible to change the CF extensions(.cfm) to .anything??? It's legal or not? What's the law point of view? And MM? Thanx [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
Matt Blatchley wrote: The Web metrics program I'm using tracks the usual...ipaddress, country, state, ISP, keyword/search engine, and site path of the user as they go from page to page within a site.This is all fine, but two different people have told me that once I match up the statistical data with a person who has placed an order, or filled out a contact form is not legal.Anyone know of this? In the Netherlands that would be correct. And since the Dutch law is supposed to be nothing but a translation of the European privacy directives, supposedly that would be illegal in all of Europe. What's your location? Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal Talk
$50.00 is pretty good .. you will most likely have to change wording .. and make sure that whatever is in the contract works in your state. One website that has some good stuff: http://www.quickforms.net/ I hope this helps! Paul Giesenhagen QuillDesign 417-885-1375 http://www.quilldesign.com - Original Message - From: C. Hatton Humphrey To: CF-Jobs-Talk Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: Legal Talk With the recent legal talk in the group I thought I'd ask this question to my fellow contractors - do you use some kind of tool or template box for your legal documents? Reason I ask - I was walking through Office Depot a few weeks ago and came across a lawyer in a box for small businesses.Basically it's a collection of customizable forms that small businesses can use (or reference I would assume) for things like NDA's, agreements, proposals and contracts.It had a price tag of something like $50. Is such a purchase worth it? Thanks! Hatton [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal Talk
You may want to look at the differences in the documents .. the quickforms.net has some very good docuements ... but keep in mind you do get what you pay for .. and $50.00 is MUCH less than what $100/hour would cost ya :) Paul Giesenhagen QuillDesign 417-885-1375 http://www.quilldesign.com - Original Message - From: C. Hatton Humphrey To: CF-Jobs-Talk Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: Legal Talk Geez, they're $30 - $40 *per document* ... no wonder $50 is a good deal! Thanks for the link tho! Hatton On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:59:58 -0500, Paul Giesenhagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $50.00 is pretty good .. you will most likely have to change wording .. and make sure that whatever is in the contract works in your state. One website that has some good stuff: http://www.quickforms.net/ I hope this helps! Paul Giesenhagen QuillDesign 417-885-1375 http://www.quilldesign.com - Original Message - From: C. Hatton Humphrey To: CF-Jobs-Talk Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: Legal Talk With the recent legal talk in the group I thought I'd ask this question to my fellow contractors - do you use some kind of tool or template box for your legal documents? Reason I ask - I was walking through Office Depot a few weeks ago and came across a lawyer in a box for small businesses.Basically it's a collection of customizable forms that small businesses can use (or reference I would assume) for things like NDA's, agreements, proposals and contracts.It had a price tag of something like $50. Is such a purchase worth it? Thanks! Hatton [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal Talk
I had a lawyer friend do me a real big favor and create a contract up for me, based on my requirements.He did it pro-bono.Maybe he felt pity for me after handling two collection cases. I've made some minor modifications myself; but plan to go back to a lawyer to make some major ones. I'd want to know what I was getting before I bought the $50 package.. but on the other hand...$50 is less than the cost of 2 gas tank fill-ups for me... it might be worth it for the entertainment value (And if it works out, even better). At 09:50 AM 8/24/2004, you wrote: With the recent legal talk in the group I thought I'd ask this question to my fellow contractors - do you use some kind of tool or template box for your legal documents? Reason I ask - I was walking through Office Depot a few weeks ago and came across a lawyer in a box for small businesses.Basically it's a collection of customizable forms that small businesses can use (or reference I would assume) for things like NDA's, agreements, proposals and contracts.It had a price tag of something like $50. Is such a purchase worth it? Thanks! Hatton -- Jeffry Houser, Web Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AIM: Reboog711| Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com Recording Music: http://www.fcfstudios.com Original Energetic Acoustic Rock: http://www.farcryfly.com [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Legal or Not Legal?
Hey folks, Recently I talked to a few different people and we've been debating back and forth about the legal issues associated with tracking users and the information about the user. The Web metrics program I'm using tracks the usual...ipaddress, country, state, ISP, keyword/search engine, and site path of the user as they go from page to page within a site.This is all fine, but two different people have told me that once I match up the statistical data with a person who has placed an order, or filled out a contact form is not legal.Anyone know of this?Sounds like bullshit to me, but I figured I'd ask you all since I get the most informative responses from the experts.Apparently they tell me that matching the stats with the data filled out on a web form / web order is too much information about one individual and violates some laws. Although, they didn't know or tell me which laws were broken.Anyone else heard of this? Matt [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
I've never heard of it violating laws, but it violates many sites' privacy policy.I'm assuming it doesn't violate yours, in which case (AFAIK) it's legal but not necessarily a good practice. --Ben Matt Blatchley wrote: Hey folks, Recently I talked to a few different people and we've been debating back and forth about the legal issues associated with tracking users and the information about the user. The Web metrics program I'm using tracks the usual...ipaddress, country, state, ISP, keyword/search engine, and site path of the user as they go from page to page within a site.This is all fine, but two different people have told me that once I match up the statistical data with a person who has placed an order, or filled out a contact form is not legal.Anyone know of this?Sounds like bullshit to me, but I figured I'd ask you all since I get the most informative responses from the experts.Apparently they tell me that matching the stats with the data filled out on a web form / web order is too much information about one individual and violates some laws. Although, they didn't know or tell me which laws were broken.Anyone else heard of this? Matt [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
Any particular reason why you would consider it not a good practice? By matching the IPaddress and user trends, the data obtained allows me to customize the users experience while they browse the site. Example... If the user comes to my site from California, I can then change the content on the site to show specific products related to the West Coast, where if the user is from Maine, I could show content or products related to the East Coast.This type of knowledge is extremely valuable and could help marketing agencies as well as E-Commerce firms.The individual I spoke to the other day with used a different example as to why it was illegal. If a user comes into the website (say a scummy porn site) and is accesses the site from California, I can then change the content of the site and gather information about the user based off that knowledge.If he/she signed up for a newsletter or bought something on the site, I would then know a good amount of information about that user.The problem is, what if the user was actually from Maine and was looking for kiddie porn or something?Or that person was a famous person and I tracked down that user that was accesses something bad?Now is it illegal, or is it only illegal if I were to use that information to market to them? Thanks for the response :) Matt - Original Message - From: Ben Doom To: CF-Talk Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Legal or Not Legal? I've never heard of it violating laws, but it violates many sites' privacy policy.I'm assuming it doesn't violate yours, in which case (AFAIK) it's legal but not necessarily a good practice. --Ben Matt Blatchley wrote: Hey folks, Recently I talked to a few different people and we've been debating back and forth about the legal issues associated with tracking users and the information about the user. The Web metrics program I'm using tracks the usual...ipaddress, country, state, ISP, keyword/search engine, and site path of the user as they go from page to page within a site.This is all fine, but two different people have told me that once I match up the statistical data with a person who has placed an order, or filled out a contact form is not legal.Anyone know of this?Sounds like bullshit to me, but I figured I'd ask you all since I get the most informative responses from the experts.Apparently they tell me that matching the stats with the data filled out on a web form / web order is too much information about one individual and violates some laws. Although, they didn't know or tell me which laws were broken.Anyone else heard of this? Matt [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
Illegal if The user is unaware that the info is being collected and how it may be used.You have to at the very least spell this stuff out in a privacy policy for the site Legal if... The user is aware the data is being collected and it's possible uses I'm no lawyer...but that seems like a reasonable line in the sand to me ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: Legal or Not Legal?
Actually, as I understand it, you have no legal responsibility to even tell the surfer what stats you are collecting. Businesses spell out their privacy policy in order put their potential customers at ease and to get people to feel secure on their site. However, you are free to harvest whatever information someone broadcasts at you. Your legal issues would start when you begin giving and/or selling this information to others. At that point, depending on the specific info in question, you could indeed be violating several laws. Of course, this doesn't address the moral obligations and the sort of generally accepted behavior on the web that you might want to consider before deciding how to use the info you collect. I think the internet is SUPPOSED to be a place where you can enjoy some small measure of anonymity, so I'm reluctant to ruin that for people, but I struggle constantly with the cool things I know I could do with the information to which I have access and my self-imposed responsibility to use it only in a manner I would be comfortable with someone using the same information collected from my surfing habits. Of course, I also am no lawyer and I'm certainly no authority on morality, but that is what I have been told and is how it has been explained to me. --Ferg _ From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:30 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Legal or Not Legal? Illegal if The user is unaware that the info is being collected and how it may be used.You have to at the very least spell this stuff out in a privacy policy for the site Legal if... The user is aware the data is being collected and it's possible uses I'm no lawyer...but that seems like a reasonable line in the sand to me ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
Matt Blatchley wrote: Any particular reason why you would consider it not a good practice? Well, for one thing, IP != user.For example, if I browse here at work, my IP matches that of 5 other users.If I browse from a dial-up connection, the IP I have today may have been someone else's yesterday, and the IP I had yesterday may belong to someone else entirely. By matching the IPaddress and user trends, the data obtained allows me to customize the users experience while they browse the site. Example... If the user comes to my site from California, I can then change the content on the site to show specific products related to the West Coast, where if the user is from Maine, I could show content or products related to the East Coast.This type of knowledge is extremely valuable and could help marketing agencies as well as E-Commerce firms.The individual I spoke to the other day with used a different example as to why it was illegal. Or, you can show me, a user from KY, only west-coast stuff since I'm vacationing in San Fransisco.Or, even better, confuse the heck out of your poor site since my mailing/billing address is in KY but my IP is in CA. If a user comes into the website (say a scummy porn site) and is accesses the site from California, I can then change the content of the site and gather information about the user based off that knowledge.If he/she signed up for a newsletter or bought something on the site, I would then know a good amount of information about that user.The problem is, what if the user was actually from Maine and was looking for kiddie porn or something?Or that person was a famous person and I tracked down that user that was accesses something bad?Now is it illegal, or is it only illegal if I were to use that information to market to them? I'm not sure I understood this example.How would a person from Maine searching for kiddie porn show up as a user in CA at your site?Unless they're using an anonymizer, in which case you end up in the midst of my argument above about multiple users sharing an IP. Am I missing something? --Ben [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: Legal or Not Legal?
If you sell the collected sales data to someone else and didn't disclose this in your PP (er... thats Privacy Policy ) you've got a customer service problem (i.e. customers will never do business with you when you get caught).If you do that in certain U.S. industries (mostly related to finance-related sites) you have a big legal problem. If you just use it internally as you describe, and do not disclose it, some of the people who find out will get upset.How many you can decide by looking at your ... er... Privacy Policy ... stats.It'll be a real small number.If instead you disclose it you're free/clear. Only in some industries that are under strict governmental control for content will you potentially have a legal problem oh, and If you are not in the U.S. this could be all inapplicable. Check your local laws blah blah. -- --Matt Robertson-- MSB Designs, Inc. mysecretbase.com [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
3rd party Amazon Pricing Webservice...Legal?
Ok I don't know if anyone out there has ever used Amazon's web services to get their product information, it is pretty cool for finding a product or info about the product, except for prices. For prices it only returns their price and the lowest 3rd party price and it doesn't tell you who that 3rd part is. I am working on a price comparison tool (it was a fun little side project to work on html parsing but now my company got interested in it). So anyways I was wondering would there be legal issues with publishing a web service that returned all the prices and the merchant offering the price for a given ASIN? Mind you this would include peek a boo pricing (must add item to shopping cart), but that could be disabled I suppose. Adam H [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: OT: Legal?
Bud Schneehagen Well said Schnee! Claude Schneegans ;-) [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
you can tell this guy to talk to your lawyer, which by itself will probably discourage further action. Except that the guy won't pay for the lawyer ;-/ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
OT: Legal?
Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Legal?
I'm not a lawyer but who is listed as owning the domain? If it is under his name then he may win if he took legal action. If it is in your name and there was no written agreement between the 2 of you then I don't think there is much he can do. Ben -Original Message- From: Cedric Villat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: OT: Legal?
Cedric - Had the same thing happen to me.The code is your intellectual property until YOU release it to the customer.My customer threaten legal action as well, when he didn't want to pay for.I responded by offering to have everything deleted from the server, and then he could go on his merry way.He then decided he would pay for. Not sure where you are, but legally, in the absence of a contract, he shouldn't have a legal basis to stand on.cfinsert check with a lawyer David Groth,Analyst/Programmer III Health Sciences Library Informatics Center MSC09 5100 1 University of New Mexico Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131-0001 Phone: 505.272.8406 / Fax: 505.272.5350 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/8/2003 12:01:07 PM Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Legal?
if you made the code. its yours, regardless of influence from a prospective buyer. im no lawyer, but I would say unless you are under the confines of employment by someone,or some entity, the code is yours, it intellectual property, and it seems by your involvment with this code, that's its your intellect that created it?correct? ...tony tony weeg senior web applications architect navtrak, inc. www.navtrak.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Cedric Villat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
not necessarily sound legal advice oops!i hit the wrong key and deleted all of the files on the server. i may have a recent backup somewhere...if only i were motivated enough to look for it... / not necessarily sound legal advice - Original Message - From: Cedric Villat To: CF-Talk Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
You really need to talk to a lawyer to get real legal advice. However, my understanding of copyright law is that it depends on if it's freelance or work-for-hire. If you are working freelance then you own the material you create. When it's done and the client receives it (it's put into production for the client), whether they fully own it or not is determined by the contract. Without a contract signing over ownership, I think you retain it. Now, if you were doing it as a work for hire situation, then they own the material. But either way they can likely still take you to court and you could still have to defend that copyright ownership, so you will probably need a lawyer. -Kevin - Original Message - From: Cedric Villat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 1:01 PM Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
Well, the domain name HE owns. He has since transferred it to a different host. The website I designed was actually online for a while, but he didn't pay the host so he was canceled. So all that I did was design the site, for free, provided I run the site. He is now threatening to sue me, but who knows. Any ideas? Should I contact a lawyer? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
Well, the domain name HE owns. He has since transferred it to a different host. The website I designed was actually online for a while, but he didn't pay the host so he was canceled. So all that I did was design the site, for free, provided I run the site. He is now threatening to sue me, but who knows. Any ideas? Should I contact a lawyer? I wouldn't worry too much as this person has probably not received legal advise from a lawyer. If he had, he wouldn't threaten to sue; you would just receive a polite letter from his attorney asking for the web site and some time frame an expected response must be made by. Usually, if you chose not to respond at by then, a suit would be filled. No lawyer would ever threaten to sue you since that is grounds to sue them first. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Legal?
If he actually sues you, then hire a lawyer.If he just threatens, then it seems premature to me--waiste of money. If he does sue you, then you might actually be able to counter-sue.If you really had an agreement, even an oral one, that you would design a website for him and in exchange he would pay you to host it, but not for the actual content, and he never paid you to host, then he owes you the lost hosting revenue--you never said if he was going to pay you for hosting, were you doing that for free too? If he wasn't giving you anything, then I don't think there is any valid contract.My very limited understanding of contracts is that there has to be a two way exchange for contracts to be valid.If you just give him something for free, then it isn't a contract, it's just you being nice. That's why a lot of non-monetary contracts specifically spell out what you're getting in exchange since it's not money. My $0.02. Sam -- Blog:http://www.rewindlife.com Chart: http://www.blinex.com/products/charting -- -Original Message- From: Cedric Villat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Legal? Well, the domain name HE owns. He has since transferred it to a different host. The website I designed was actually online for a while, but he didn't pay the host so he was canceled. So all that I did was design the site, for free, provided I run the site. He is now threatening to sue me, but who knows. Any ideas? Should I contact a lawyer? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
Don't do anything until you are contacted by his lawyer, at which point you can decide whether it's worth it.He doesn't want to accrue lawyer fees as more than likely it'll cost him more to pursue you than it would to work out a deal.Check over your old emails and make sure you wrote nothing that could be misconstrued as ownership on his side. If it's only a verbal agreement then you are looking good .. just be sure not to write or tell him anything you'll be sorry about later. Oh, and watch Judge Judy :). - Original Message - From: Cedric Villat To: CF-Talk Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Legal? Well, the domain name HE owns. He has since transferred it to a different host. The website I designed was actually online for a while, but he didn't pay the host so he was canceled. So all that I did was design the site, for free, provided I run the site. He is now threatening to sue me, but who knows. Any ideas? Should I contact a lawyer? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
Owning the domain is not the same as owning the site or code behind the site.We've had few occassions where a client tried to stiff us and while he could change domains, we still could hold his code hostage.Even if the code was partially or mostly paid for, the developer or company behind the code could still retain it. - Original Message - From: Ben Densmore To: CF-Talk Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: RE: Legal? I'm not a lawyer but who is listed as owning the domain? If it is under his name then he may win if he took legal action. If it is in your name and there was no written agreement between the 2 of you then I don't think there is much he can do. Ben -Original Message- From: Cedric Villat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
I would have to offer the thought that it may very well cost the individual more to litigate than it will to redevelop. Personally I would be likely to ignore any and all threats that did not come from an attorney. I, of course, am not an attorney and my advice is worth about half of the dust created from rubbing two wooden nickels together. - Calvin - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg To: CF-Talk Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:06 PM Subject: RE: Legal? if you made the code. its yours, regardless of influence from a prospective buyer. im no lawyer, but I would say unless you are under the confines of employment by someone,or some entity, the code is yours, it intellectual property, and it seems by your involvment with this code, that's its your intellect that created it?correct? ...tony tony weeg senior web applications architect navtrak, inc. www.navtrak.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Cedric Villat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Legal? Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? Cedric [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
At 11:17 AM 10/8/03 -0700, Cedric Villat wrote: pay the host so he was canceled. So all that I did was design the site, for free, provided I run the site. He is now threatening to sue me, but who knows. Any ideas? Should I contact a lawyer? If it were me, and I didn't need the money, I'd delete the the entire thing, tell him the hard drive crashed, and have nothing more to do with him.Life is too short to deal with jerks. T Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?Move them to the Net! www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your favourites in one place and access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: OT: Legal?
I don't know about the States, but here in Canada a verbal contract is still a contract. So if you tell you would develop for free provided you run the site yourself, HE is the one who breaks the contract. Now the question is WHERE the code is. If it is on a server he does not have acces to, HE will have to sue you, and with only a verbal contract, and especially that he didn't pay for anything, I think he better have a pretty good lawyer ;-/ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
is listed as owning the domain? Even if he owns the domain, this will not make him the owner of everything availaible in that domain. One could give him back control to his domain, but with nothing in it. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
My $0.02. Watch out, if there is money involved, then it might be considered as a contract ;-) [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
Way OT, but... As was mentioned earlier, for a contract to exist there has to be some form of 'consideration'.This is usually money but it could be a lot of things, monetary or otherwise. For example, if he offered to provide introductions to other wealthy celebrities to give you the opportunity to negotiate for their business; thats worth something and is a valid form of exchange.Or if the site itself was supposed to be a vehicle to attract business to your doorstep, then this can also be regarded as compensation for your time/effort.Or if you got tickets to [sporting event goes here]. And if in fact you did receive some form of non-monetary consideration then you were paid for your work. Just throwing out a scenario.None of it may apply to you.From what you describe you're in a strong position and don't want to just roll over for this clown. Start a paper trail.Make him a reasonable counter-offer that explains his failure to pay anything for anything, and your reasonable fee for doing so.If he responds verbally, write him back with your response, and recount the conversation in the letter.This will make it into evidence if a case comes up, and will carry more weight than recounted conversations. And deliver your counter-offer via Fedex.I've found people will always accept a FedEx where otherwise they might refuse a registered letter. One thing judges like to see is reasonable people trying to work their differences out before coming into court and bothering them with their petty squabbles.Doing this and documenting it will only help you, provided you don't say anything stupid or get aggressive. -- --- Matt Robertson,[EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: OT: Legal?
Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid for. Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know anything about the law in this case? You had a verbal contract. Verbal contracts are legal. The verbal contract said the site was his as long as you are running/hosting it. You're no longer running/hosting it, so it's not his. He broke the contract. Now if he wants the site, you two can negotiate a new contract. Now that you've discovered this fellow's nature, the new contract should contain $$$, all of them up front. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations, Inc. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Web Based Solutions / eCommerce Development Hosting http://www.twcreations.com/ - http://www.cf-ezcart.com/ Toll Free: 877.207.6397 - Local Int'l Phone/Fax: 386.789.0968 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Legal?
If he has paid nothing, and you have not specifically conveyed all intellectual rights to him, them YOU are the owner and you owe him nothing.In fact since he did not host with you, he is in breach of the implied contract.He would get nowhere in court from that perspective. == Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and all databases. ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 Suggested corporate Anti-virus policy: http://www.dshield.org/antivirus.pdf == If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! - Original Message - From: Cedric Villat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 1:01 PM Subject: OT: Legal? | Ok, a client of mine has gone nuts. He is an agent for a few celebrities, | and I had offered to create a site for one of his clients free-of-charge | provided I was the one running the site. He has now decided to go to another | designer, and wants me to give him the site, which as I said he has not paid | for. | | Now, there is no written contract saying that I would do it for him | free-of-charge, so I guess he has me there. But at the same time, since | there is no contract saying I would do it free-of-charge, since he hasn't | paid me, he is not entitled to the site. I told him if he wanted to pay me | for the work, I would give it to him, but he keeps threatening me of legal | action. Am I wrong here or is he really entitled to the site? Anyone know | anything about the law in this case? | | Cedric | | | [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Legal?
Should I contact a lawyer? Yes. Just like you wouldn't ask a lawyer to help you write some CF code, your best advice won't come from this list. You don't have to hire the lawyer, but you might consider a retainer. If nothing else, you can tell this guy to talk to your lawyer, which by itself will probably discourage further action. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ phone: 202-797-5496 fax: 202-797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
legal issues
My company recently spawned off from a parent company, and we're drafting a non-compete agreement and looking for some insight as to wording. We found a couple generic agreements, and they used such remarkably vague terms as ... the Employee shall not own, manage, operate, consult to or be employed in a business substantially similar to the present or future business of the Company ... I don't have a particular problem with signing an appropriate non-compete, and my employer wants to ensure the agreement is suitable for all concerned, which is very nice, so there is some flexability. The company develops a web-based communications management tool that is licensed and hosted ASP-style (Application Service Provider, not Active Server Pages ;). As well as doing all development, we do all the sales and support services. My concern is that any web app could be construed as a web-based communications management tool, especially anything that's not a basic web site (an email newsletter with web-based authoring, for example), so the definition of competition needs a fairly high degree of precision. I'm sure there are people out there who've fought this battle before, and I was wondering if any of you had some insight, or even some sample language. thanks, barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: legal issues
Not sure about the legal situation in the US, but in Canada most lawyers will tell ya non-compete agreements are just expensive pieces of paper...easily fought if need bejust too many ways of reading them...too many gray areas Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: legal issues My company recently spawned off from a parent company, and we're drafting a non-compete agreement and looking for some insight as to wording. We found a couple generic agreements, and they used such remarkably vague terms as ... the Employee shall not own, manage, operate, consult to or be employed in a business substantially similar to the present or future business of the Company ... I don't have a particular problem with signing an appropriate non-compete, and my employer wants to ensure the agreement is suitable for all concerned, which is very nice, so there is some flexability. The company develops a web-based communications management tool that is licensed and hosted ASP-style (Application Service Provider, not Active Server Pages ;). As well as doing all development, we do all the sales and support services. My concern is that any web app could be construed as a web-based communications management tool, especially anything that's not a basic web site (an email newsletter with web-based authoring, for example), so the definition of competition needs a fairly high degree of precision. I'm sure there are people out there who've fought this battle before, and I was wondering if any of you had some insight, or even some sample language. thanks, barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: legal issues
Yeah, that's what I've been gathering, but the boss says they need one, and I'd rather do a bit of work now than potentially get into a battle down the road. Load of bureaucratic BS, but such is life. --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: legal issues Not sure about the legal situation in the US, but in Canada most lawyers will tell ya non-compete agreements are just expensive pieces of paper...easily fought if need bejust too many ways of reading them...too many gray areas Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: legal issues My company recently spawned off from a parent company, and we're drafting a non-compete agreement and looking for some insight as to wording. We found a couple generic agreements, and they used such remarkably vague terms as ... the Employee shall not own, manage, operate, consult to or be employed in a business substantially similar to the present or future business of the Company ... I don't have a particular problem with signing an appropriate non-compete, and my employer wants to ensure the agreement is suitable for all concerned, which is very nice, so there is some flexability. The company develops a web-based communications management tool that is licensed and hosted ASP-style (Application Service Provider, not Active Server Pages ;). As well as doing all development, we do all the sales and support services. My concern is that any web app could be construed as a web-based communications management tool, especially anything that's not a basic web site (an email newsletter with web-based authoring, for example), so the definition of competition needs a fairly high degree of precision. I'm sure there are people out there who've fought this battle before, and I was wondering if any of you had some insight, or even some sample language. thanks, barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: legal issues
If it were I, I would try to list specific things that the current product does that you won't do (or that you won't provide a combination of x number of things). Also, I would word it carefully so that it's clear you won't poach their clients, but not that you won't compete for them in any sense. -- Ben Doom Programmer General Lackey Moonbow Software, Inc : -Original Message- : From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:22 PM : To: CF-Talk : Subject: legal issues : : : My company recently spawned off from a parent company, and we're : drafting a : non-compete agreement and looking for some insight as to wording. : We found : a couple generic agreements, and they used such remarkably vague terms as : ... the Employee shall not own, manage, operate, consult to or : be employed : in a business substantially similar to the present or future : business of the : Company ... : : I don't have a particular problem with signing an appropriate non-compete, : and my employer wants to ensure the agreement is suitable for all : concerned, : which is very nice, so there is some flexability. : : The company develops a web-based communications management tool that is : licensed and hosted ASP-style (Application Service Provider, not Active : Server Pages ;). As well as doing all development, we do all the : sales and : support services. My concern is that any web app could be construed as a : web-based communications management tool, especially anything that's not a : basic web site (an email newsletter with web-based authoring, for : example), : so the definition of competition needs a fairly high degree of : precision. : : I'm sure there are people out there who've fought this battle : before, and I : was wondering if any of you had some insight, or even some sample : language. : : thanks, : barneyb : : --- : Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer : AudienceCentral : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : voice : 360.756.8080 x12 : fax : 360.647.5351 : : www.audiencecentral.com : : --- : Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. : Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). : Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 : : ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: legal issues
Better hire a lawyer to write one for you if the boss truly wants it to be as tight as possible. That overly broad statement you posted is just asking for an expensive legal battle down the road...assuming you could pursuade anyone to sign something that broad to start with. Ken -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: legal issues Yeah, that's what I've been gathering, but the boss says they need one, and I'd rather do a bit of work now than potentially get into a battle down the road. Load of bureaucratic BS, but such is life. --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: legal issues Not sure about the legal situation in the US, but in Canada most lawyers will tell ya non-compete agreements are just expensive pieces of paper...easily fought if need bejust too many ways of reading them...too many gray areas Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: legal issues My company recently spawned off from a parent company, and we're drafting a non-compete agreement and looking for some insight as to wording. We found a couple generic agreements, and they used such remarkably vague terms as ... the Employee shall not own, manage, operate, consult to or be employed in a business substantially similar to the present or future business of the Company ... I don't have a particular problem with signing an appropriate non-compete, and my employer wants to ensure the agreement is suitable for all concerned, which is very nice, so there is some flexability. The company develops a web-based communications management tool that is licensed and hosted ASP-style (Application Service Provider, not Active Server Pages ;). As well as doing all development, we do all the sales and support services. My concern is that any web app could be construed as a web-based communications management tool, especially anything that's not a basic web site (an email newsletter with web-based authoring, for example), so the definition of competition needs a fairly high degree of precision. I'm sure there are people out there who've fought this battle before, and I was wondering if any of you had some insight, or even some sample language. thanks, barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
ANNOUNCEMENT: Using CF in Human Resources - what works and what is legal? Wash DC 11/6/02
Does your HR department want to better use technology? For recruitment? For handbooks? For training? For managing HR functions? Worried about the technical and legal issues? You can help them with the seminar Human Resources and Technology: What Works? What is Legal? More details at http://www.teratech.com/training/hr.cfm *** Win*Win *** You can win FREE TeraTech training or mentoring simply by inviting your Human Resources staff to attend this valuable seminar. Plus, your HR professionals win by benefiting from expert advice on how HR professionals can better use technology legally. They will be better prepared to communicate business needs to you! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To our IT friend: Please pass this invitation along to your colleagues in the HR department. Send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], subject HR seminar. In the body of the message list the name, company, email (optional) of the people you referred. When they sign up, you will automatically be entered in the drawing for the FREE TeraTech training or mentoring. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Human Resources and Technology: What Works? What is Legal? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To our new HR friend: TECHNOLOGY CAN IMPROVE THE HUMAN RESOURCE FUNCTION - UNLESS IT IS DEPLOYED BADLY. Time and money can be lost if you learn too late that the technological solution that you have chosen does not work with the rest of your programs. Lawsuits can result when you fail to understand the legal implications of the systems you have chosen. The highly regarded specialists in Employment Law, Shawe Rosenthal, LLP, are our partners in this seminar. Attendees will receive invaluable guidance on viable technology solutions that work and that are legal. Learn how other HR departments are using web and database technology. We will be talking about great ways for HR folks to use technology -- -- Web-based recruiting -- Managing and tracking applicant flow -- Qualifications screening software -- Virtual Handbooks and policies -- E-handbook acknowledgment -- Internet/Intranet-based training -- Tracking mechanisms for attendance, training and the like -- Security considerations Register today When: Wednesday, November 6, 8:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Where: Holiday Inn Select in Bethesda, Maryland Cost: $75 includes course materials and lunch Questions?: Call Doris at 301-881-1440 x101 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] More details and Register online : http://www.teratech.com/training/hr.cfm -- TeraTech voted top ColdFusion consulting company in the CFDJ awards Michael Smith, TeraTech Inc CF , VB, SQL, Math programming 12221 Parklawn Dr Ste 200, Rockville MD 20852-1711 USA Voice: +1-301-881-1440 x110, 800-447-9120 Fax:301-881-3586 Web: http://www.teratech.com/sig/ Email: mailto:michael;teratech.com ICQ: 66057682 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
New CFMX Certification website - Any legal issues????
I am in the process of developing a website for CFMX Certification and going to release the site by the end of Sept Any issues to be addressed before releasing the website? Help!!! Any input or suggestions is appreciated.. Thank you.. Good Day. --Siva Girumala __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
using cf_stockdata, is this legal?
I've been using stockdata custom tag on our website for a long time. Yesterday, my colleague just told me that it's illegal to use it. Is this true? if yes, Is there another way of getting stock info check out this page http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html Thanh Nguyen __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal?
Using stock reports is legal if: - They are delayed by at least 15-20 minutes, per SEC regulations for non-registered outlets - They are not used for commercial profit purposes - i.e., you are not selling the information or profiting directly from it's use. If it is for informational purposes only, you're safe. - You are accurately reporting the information from a reputable/reliable source. That's my .02 Lee | -Original Message- | From: Thanh Nguyen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:57 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? | | | I've been using stockdata custom tag on our website for a long time. | Yesterday, my colleague just told me that it's illegal to use | it. Is this true? if yes, Is there another way of getting stock info | | check out this page http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | | | Thanh Nguyen | | | __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal?
And most importantly...if you are properly licensed/authorized to re-publish the stock data from whatever source you are getting it. Simply scraping it off a site because you can doesn't qualify unless the source in question says so in it's terms of service. -Original Message- From: Lee Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? Using stock reports is legal if: - They are delayed by at least 15-20 minutes, per SEC regulations for non-registered outlets - They are not used for commercial profit purposes - i.e., you are not selling the information or profiting directly from it's use. If it is for informational purposes only, you're safe. - You are accurately reporting the information from a reputable/reliable source. That's my .02 Lee | -Original Message- | From: Thanh Nguyen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:57 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? | | | I've been using stockdata custom tag on our website for a long time. | Yesterday, my colleague just told me that it's illegal to use | it. Is this true? if yes, Is there another way of getting stock info | | check out this page http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | | | Thanh Nguyen | | | __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal?
Yes.. Of course. | -Original Message- | From: Ken Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:18 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? | | | And most importantly...if you are properly | licensed/authorized to re-publish the stock data from | whatever source you are getting it. Simply scraping it off a | site because you can doesn't qualify unless the source in | question says so in it's terms of service. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: Lee Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:01 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? | | | Using stock reports is legal if: | | - They are delayed by at least 15-20 minutes, per SEC | regulations for non-registered outlets | - They are not used for commercial profit purposes - i.e., | you are not selling the information or profiting directly | from it's use. If it is for informational purposes only, you're safe. | - You are accurately reporting the information from a | reputable/reliable source. | | That's my .02 | Lee | | | | -Original Message- | | From: Thanh Nguyen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | | Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:57 PM | | To: CF-Talk | | Subject: using cf_stockdata, is this legal? | | | | | | I've been using stockdata custom tag on our website for a | long time. | | Yesterday, my colleague just told me that it's illegal to | use it. Is | | this true? if yes, Is there another way of getting stock info | | | | check out this page http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | | http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/fin/fin-03.html | | | | | | Thanh Nguyen | | | | | | | | __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: Macromedia Legal Issue
I know this is OT, but I thought those of you in this list would be best able to answer this question. We use Dreamweaver UD4 with CFStudio to build our applications, in doing this, we use some of the core MM JavaScript in our sites. We've recently created a common JavaScript library for all our sites using a CustomTag to call the script into any site. Included in this library, we added 3 or 4 of the core MM scripts we often use, is there a legal problem involved if someone downloads this library from us with the MM scripts attached? Is there a disclaimer we need to add or is this just something that MM expects will happen? Thanks, Joshua Miller Web Development::Programming Eagle Technologies Group, Inc. www.eagletgi.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Macromedia Legal Issue
This might better fit over on the CF-Partners list. I doubt there are any legal issues. I'm curious about the efficiency of a custom tag that does nothing but drop in some custom JavaScripts. Have you tested it for efficiency of using a custom tag vs an include vs just putting it in the page? For that matter, has anyone done and number crunching for Custom Tag vs Include vs just putting it in the page? Since JavaScript is not processed by CF, obviously just putting it into the page is the most efficient. I can see the benefits of using an include if the same JavaScripts are used in many places. I'm not sure why you would want to make it into a custom tag. At 09:37 AM 09/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: I know this is OT, but I thought those of you in this list would be best able to answer this question. We use Dreamweaver UD4 with CFStudio to build our applications, in doing this, we use some of the core MM JavaScript in our sites. We've recently created a common JavaScript library for all our sites using a CustomTag to call the script into any site. Included in this library, we added 3 or 4 of the core MM scripts we often use, is there a legal problem involved if someone downloads this library from us with the MM scripts attached? Is there a disclaimer we need to add or is this just something that MM expects will happen? Thanks, Joshua Miller Web Development::Programming Eagle Technologies Group, Inc. www.eagletgi.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Macromedia Legal Issue
It's used as a tag because it's located in one directory on a server and needs to be used on as many as 50 sites (virtual hosting, obviously) ... rather than having all the code just copied and displayed in the source, we're using the standard script src=whatever/script ... since the pages calling the scripts could be as many as 6 directories deep, it was necessary to write a tag (or I suppose an include in a global includes directory) to create the virtual path to any possible directory. I'd be interested to know how calling a custom tag and calling an include from a global include location differ in processing time. We haven't noticed any significant change in load time, and since I'm on a whopping 26.4Kbps (horrid dial-up) connection most days, I'd notice any performance lags. Joshua Miller Web Development::Programming Eagle Technologies Group, Inc. www.eagletgi.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: Macromedia Legal Issue This might better fit over on the CF-Partners list. I doubt there are any legal issues. I'm curious about the efficiency of a custom tag that does nothing but drop in some custom JavaScripts. Have you tested it for efficiency of using a custom tag vs an include vs just putting it in the page? For that matter, has anyone done and number crunching for Custom Tag vs Include vs just putting it in the page? Since JavaScript is not processed by CF, obviously just putting it into the page is the most efficient. I can see the benefits of using an include if the same JavaScripts are used in many places. I'm not sure why you would want to make it into a custom tag. At 09:37 AM 09/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: I know this is OT, but I thought those of you in this list would be best able to answer this question. We use Dreamweaver UD4 with CFStudio to build our applications, in doing this, we use some of the core MM JavaScript in our sites. We've recently created a common JavaScript library for all our sites using a CustomTag to call the script into any site. Included in this library, we added 3 or 4 of the core MM scripts we often use, is there a legal problem involved if someone downloads this library from us with the MM scripts attached? Is there a disclaimer we need to add or is this just something that MM expects will happen? Thanks, Joshua Miller Web Development::Programming Eagle Technologies Group, Inc. www.eagletgi.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Getting WOT: legal question?????
Of course you're right... email can be faked. So can anything on paper -- and almost as easily. The objective is to perform a duty of care/due diligence without getting fired. The correct answer is going to be to move thru existing, documentable channels (whatever they are) without becoming a nail that sticks up and subsequently gets hammered down. --Matt-- - Original Message - From: Craig Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: RE: legal question? Umm if you are going to do a CYA memo -- do it on paper. How well do you think the email I've forwarded would stand up?? Oh and it would be trivial to make the logs look like I'd received it... (Note: This email is fake!!(speaking of CYA)) -Original Message- From: President Bill Clinton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 10, 2001 6:04 PM To: Craig Fisher Subject: Thanks and a surprise. Craig: Thanks for being such a great guy and a swell American. I am so excited to have you living here the States that I am excusing you from federal income taxes for the 100 years. Enjoy it man! Your Friend, William Jefferson Clinton The President of United States of America ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
legal question?????
Hello, Not sure if anyone can answer this question/concern for me but will ask anyways.I have been creating some reports for HR that will be used internally to keep track of our employees work(ie number of items completed, average numbers etc). One of the averages I am being asked to report will be a very skewed number and I am concerned because these averages are used to grade employees. People have been let go over these numbers. Bottom line is, I do not want to have any numbers on my report that I already know are skewed. I expressed my concern to my employer and they agreed that the numbers will be off but they want it anyways and they say they will take that into consideration. Am I in anyway liable or am I being paranoid??? :) Thanks, ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
Of course you are liable...really might want to speak with legal counsel about this. - Original Message - From: Amanda Stern [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: legal question? Hello, Not sure if anyone can answer this question/concern for me but will ask anyways.I have been creating some reports for HR that will be used internally to keep track of our employees work(ie number of items completed, average numbers etc). One of the averages I am being asked to report will be a very skewed number and I am concerned because these averages are used to grade employees. People have been let go over these numbers. Bottom line is, I do not want to have any numbers on my report that I already know are skewed. I expressed my concern to my employer and they agreed that the numbers will be off but they want it anyways and they say they will take that into consideration. Am I in anyway liable or am I being paranoid??? :) Thanks, ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: legal question?????
Call a lawyer for legal advice, however, there's two schools of thought on this: Will this affect your professional standing in the community? Will you loose designations or certifications over this? Do you have the request in writing? Can you blame someone else? If you DO have the reqest in writing, then cover your rear and I would do it. It's not worth arguing over. If you don't get blamed, then don't worry about it. However, the ethical matter, if you REALLY have an ethical issue, then tell them to pound salt. Your professional integrity should be something you value more than anything, and it's one thing they can't take away. However, the job market sux right now, so I'd stick with the first point. Legal issue? If your company is asking you to lie, then I'd keep a lawyer on call... -Original Message- From: Amanda Stern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: legal question? Hello, Not sure if anyone can answer this question/concern for me but will ask anyways.I have been creating some reports for HR that will be used internally to keep track of our employees work(ie number of items completed, average numbers etc). One of the averages I am being asked to report will be a very skewed number and I am concerned because these averages are used to grade employees. People have been let go over these numbers. Bottom line is, I do not want to have any numbers on my report that I already know are skewed. I expressed my concern to my employer and they agreed that the numbers will be off but they want it anyways and they say they will take that into consideration. Am I in anyway liable or am I being paranoid??? :) Thanks, ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: legal question?????
Amanda, I would recommend that you get together with them and their legal team (assuming they have one) and make sure that you're not violating anyone's privacy rights. I worked on a questionable application in my past as well. It was a tool that allowed the system administrators to do reporting on the logs from their firewalls. They wanted to use it to do bandwidth analysis and stuff. However, part of what it could do was search for keywords in the URLs of sites that people were visiting. This meant that they could search for obscene words, find the people that hit those URLs, and possibly make judgments about what the person was doing at that site. We got legal involved and they drew some fine lines around what we could and couldn't do and what the system admin could and couldn't reliably assume from the log reports. It's a touchy subject and if you are feeling uncomfortable, I'd recommend bringing everyone in on it and clarifying things. Ultimately, the responsibility falls in the hands of the people that use the application and make decisions on it, but I know where you're coming from in being responsible for writing the code that produces the results that they'll be looking at. Good luck! :) -Tyson -Original Message- From: Amanda Stern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: legal question? Hello, Not sure if anyone can answer this question/concern for me but will ask anyways.I have been creating some reports for HR that will be used internally to keep track of our employees work(ie number of items completed, average numbers etc). One of the averages I am being asked to report will be a very skewed number and I am concerned because these averages are used to grade employees. People have been let go over these numbers. Bottom line is, I do not want to have any numbers on my report that I already know are skewed. I expressed my concern to my employer and they agreed that the numbers will be off but they want it anyways and they say they will take that into consideration. Am I in anyway liable or am I being paranoid??? :) Thanks, ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
Hi Amanda, Boy, your question sure reminded me of a similar situation where I work. Let me just say, I am NOT an attorney, so I don't know what the ramifications of this would be. I would think that if you were only doing what your management required you to do, you wouldn't be able to be pinned for any wrongdoing. After all, how do YOU know what the data is going to be used for? There have been a couple of occasions where my boss has asked me to pull data out of a database using CF (for a report, data administration, whatever) and I have no idea what the data is being used for, nor do I care. Secondly, what if you refused to include that data? That, I would think, could be considered insubordination, which is cause for termination. Here's my rule of thumb: When in doubt, *get it in writing*! If you really are concerned about it, type up an email outlining your concerns and send it to the powers-that-be that are driving this initiative. That way you have a legal record of where you stand on the issue. If they insist that you build it according to those specs, insist on a written response indicating such. I really doubt that you could be held liable for any terminations based on the application that you were directed to create (though in our increasingly letigious society I suppose anything is possible at this point). The application would run the numbers consistently across the board for all employees, correct? It's just that the numbers entered into the database could cause the skew. In that case, how can you be held responsible for the data entered into the database? Just my two-cents worth ;) Terri Original Message Follows From: Amanda Stern [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: legal question? Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Not sure if anyone can answer this question/concern for me but will ask anyways.I have been creating some reports for HR that will be used internally to keep track of our employees work(ie number of items completed, average numbers etc). One of the averages I am being asked to report will be a very skewed number and I am concerned because these averages are used to grade employees. People have been let go over these numbers. Bottom line is, I do not want to have any numbers on my report that I already know are skewed. I expressed my concern to my employer and they agreed that the numbers will be off but they want it anyways and they say they will take that into consideration. Am I in anyway liable or am I being paranoid??? :) Thanks, ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
He is no more liable than Ford or BMW who makes a car and that car is involved in a drunk driving accident. Or Winchester or Remmington maker of guns used to kill a person. Tools don't fire people ... managers do. Managers are liable not programmers! Jesus, give me a break. Oh ... and please take this cf-community ... thanks! Regards, Bill n a message dated 8/9/01 7:24:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course you are liable...really might want to speak with legal counsel about this. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
Tools don't fire people ... managers do. Managers are liable not programmers! True. However, if you note in her post, she states that she knows one of the reports produces skewed results. If this result is used to fire someone, and that person sues, she could (and most likely will) be named since she produces the report. Lawsuits generally name everyone who ever even thought about something so they can get more exposure. Think about it...a lawyer in court saying So, you knew this report produced flawed data, yet you provided it to management anyway, and that data resulted in the termination of my client. I'd say that makes you as responsible as the manager. Jesus, give me a break. Ask him, He might. ;-) Oh ... and please take this cf-community ... thanks! It's relevant here as well, since we all code reports and data presentations at one time or another. John ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: Re: legal question?????
Brandon, But I'm sure your an impartial bystander: http://www.line56.com/directory/company.asp?CompanyID=3207CategoryID=34 http://www.provere.com/ Call me cynical ... but what do you call 10,000 CTOs of Lawyer referral services drowned at the bottom of the ocean I know we've all heard it before ... but: A nice START! Cheers, Bill In a message dated 8/9/01 7:24:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course you are liable...really might want to speak with legal counsel about this. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
...He is no more liable than snip ... snip Winchester or Remington maker of guns used to kill a person... The need to defend against those lawsuits had a profound effect on that industry. There's no telling if some yo-yo is going to sue everybody in sight dome day, so a quick off-the-high-horse *non-confrontational* CYA memo is in order. This can be done with a simple summary email to the supervisor, summarizing the results of the meeting where the programmer's concerns were voiced. Briefly reference the concern and the supervisor's awareness of same. Then drop the matter. Perform your due diligence and leave it to management do the same. ''Larry and Moe, Just wanted to confirm that I checked over the programming, and that report is definitely going to be off as we discussed. You'll need to keep this in mind when reviewing those numbers. --Curly'' ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
Really John ... don't get me started! Question ... who owns the code? Is she an independent consultant working outside a 'Work for Hire' or 'Commissioned Work' scenario? Is she an employee of some company ... implicit 'work for hire'? Has she signed away the rights of the code? If she doesn't own the code she is not liable ... period. Cheers, Bill In a message dated 8/9/01 8:05:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tools don't fire people ... managers do. Managers are liable not programmers! True. However, if you note in her post, she states that she knows one of the reports produces skewed results. If this result is used to fire someone, and that person sues, she could (and most likely will) be named since she produces the report. Lawsuits generally name everyone who ever even thought about something so they can get more exposure. Think about it...a lawyer in court saying So, you knew this report produced flawed data, yet you provided it to management anyway, and that data resulted in the termination of my client. I'd say that makes you as responsible as the manager. Jesus, give me a break. Ask him, He might. ;-) Oh ... and please take this cf-community ... thanks! It's relevant here as well, since we all code reports and data presentations at one time or another. John ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: legal question?????
In a message dated 8/9/01 8:18:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If your going to get sued whether your in the right or not isn't the point. Your going to get sued! A CYA memo isn't going stop litigation. If your right your right ... if you get sued you get sued! And BTW ... typically only organizations with the resources to pay are sued. Blood from a stone Cheers, Bill ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: legal question?????
Umm if you are going to do a CYA memo -- do it on paper. How well do you think the email I've forwarded would stand up?? Oh and it would be trivial to make the logs look like I'd received it... (Note: This email is fake!!(speaking of CYA)) -Original Message- From: President Bill Clinton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 10, 2001 6:04 PM To: Craig Fisher Subject: Thanks and a surprise. Craig: Thanks for being such a great guy and a swell American. I am so excited to have you living here the States that I am excusing you from federal income taxes for the 100 years. Enjoy it man! Your Friend, William Jefferson Clinton The President of United States of America ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
