RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
I don't have a degree but have accumulated about 6+ year's of school. First, in Fine Arts, [Painting [surrealism abstract]] then after dropping out to paint for a few years went back to ArtSchool to learn a bit about Media Studies. From one extreme to the other. a bit of electronic music here, art instillations there, print shops, small web shops. Then on to basic design, started really hating poor content. probably my fault at poor content management. then on to CF... Will probably take me 3 years to be competentin CF, but i enjoy wrestling with my own nature, too learn. Now if i could only get funding to produce a high end Dr.Who Movie, i would be set! -paul Web Developer, NBBJ Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 614 241-3534 Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 614 449-1681 [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 47658358 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
the concepts are not "hard" to pick up on your own. it's just that when you spend ~4 years using them in CS assignments, you "own" them. that is, you have the theory so deeply entrenched that they beome invisible to you, and second nature in your development efforts. Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
Mines actually engineering economics and management - money and technology - a perfect combination :) -Original Message- From: Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:24 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- -- -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From:Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --- --- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
I have a 2 degree in music business, go figure. Havent had a single problem getting a technical job since i have the years of experience (instead of the degree) to back it up. Gotta love that. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. - --- -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. - -- --- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAI
Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
My position required a bachelor's degree, simply because I work for a university and it's an academic staff level position. But, my degree is in African Cultural Studies and Art History. Hm...I suppose that might be helpful if I ever want to write a cf_translate_to_Yoruba tag -d Deanna Schneider Interactive Media Developer UWEX Cooperative Extension Electronic Publishing Group 103 Extension Bldg 432 N. Lake Street Madison, WI 53706 (608) 265-7923 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
Ya, they also should list how many of their staff are veterans, and of those if any of them are disabled in one way or another. The Gov. awards contracts based on points and both of those will score as many or more points then just a degree alone. Through in a degree and a veteran and your points go up, then so does your chance of landing that Gov. job. -Original Message- From: Howell, Katie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) ok, I'll bite: BA in theater design (believe it or not, the drafting/scenic design classes really help with page layout) then back to school (16 yrs later) for a masters in Computer Resources and Information Management. My 2 bits for the value of a degree...when working for a government contractor, having a degree (in my experience anyway) is almost a requirement. When your company bids on a gov't job, they actually list how many staff members have advanced degrees. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] w
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
Ok, I have an Associates in computer programming and working on a bachelors in computer science. Not having the BA degree has only hurt my career while working for govt contractors.But I have the years of experience to compensate. I think it comes in handy when negotiating salary, otherwise, I mostly rely on OJT. Bonnie -Original Message- From: Howell, Katie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) ok, I'll bite: BA in theater design (believe it or not, the drafting/scenic design classes really help with page layout) then back to school (16 yrs later) for a masters in Computer Resources and Information Management. My 2 bits for the value of a degree...when working for a government contractor, having a degree (in my experience anyway) is almost a requirement. When your company bids on a gov't job, they actually list how many staff members have advanced degrees. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From:Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --- - -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.c
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
i worked government contracts for 4 years my 2 year music degree was enough never had a problem getting a job where a Bachelors was required, however I did have to back up my qualifications with proof and experience which was easy enough. I think with Gov. Contracts your PAY may suffer a little if you dont hvae the degree but outside of government it hasnt mattered one bit for me. Kelly -Original Message- From: Howell, Katie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) ok, I'll bite: BA in theater design (believe it or not, the drafting/scenic design classes really help with page layout) then back to school (16 yrs later) for a masters in Computer Resources and Information Management. My 2 bits for the value of a degree...when working for a government contractor, having a degree (in my experience anyway) is almost a requirement. When your company bids on a gov't job, they actually list how many staff members have advanced degrees. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wit
Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
A nice thing that happened since about 93 is that the web languages and tools COLDFUSION became very easy to understand. As such it opens the door for a lot of people, which is good. What should you be looking for from an (advanced?) college degree? Real computing techniques and know-how. Want to write your own ultra-encrypted security system? Do a few semesters of research on huge prime numbers, encryption... Other courses include neural networking and aritificial intelligence; all the good stuff that makes math majors cry. For those who really hate windows, you can apply to MIT where they make you write your own operating system (stdin,stdout,stderr tools) for a school project. IMHO, you dont need an advanced degree in this day and age. If you can crank out a finished, functional product then you can make money. If you are really interested in making computers come alive, then try on a few classes. Aint nothing wrong with learning something. :) - Original Message - From: Todd Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 10:29 AM Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
Peer pressure has gotten to me and I guess I'll give in and offer my 2 cents. I'll start by saying that I don't have a degree, although, I'm going for my BS in CS this fall. Every situation is unique. Therefore, there is no concrete evidence that says you MUST have a degree. I look at a degree like this: It shouldn't just be to get you ahead in your career. However, that's why most people get a degree. How about history, English and math skills that, let's face it, a lot of people need. I remember this guy that always said "yous" i.e. - "I'll talk to yous later". Sounds uneducated to me. Anyway, OJT is extremely important, but I think a degree can be equally important too. I'm looking for my degree to fill in some of the pieces that I've missed with OJT. In talking to some people from Allaire, I've found out that one of the problems they see is that you have a lot of Web developers with no formal application development experience. That is, pre-internet development experience. To finish, OJT can be invaluable if you have a well structured environment where you can build and grow on best practices. Equally important is to have leadership that puts it's subordinates in positions to succeed. I really like the cliche: "A dog is only as smart as his owner". Do we need to start a CF-Education list? -Original Message- From: Kelly Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:58 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) i worked government contracts for 4 years my 2 year music degree was enough never had a problem getting a job where a Bachelors was required, however I did have to back up my qualifications with proof and experience which was easy enough. I think with Gov. Contracts your PAY may suffer a little if you dont hvae the degree but outside of government it hasnt mattered one bit for me. Kelly -Original Message- From: Howell, Katie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) ok, I'll bite: BA in theater design (believe it or not, the drafting/scenic design classes really help with page layout) then back to school (16 yrs later) for a masters in Computer Resources and Information Management. My 2 bits for the value of a degree...when working for a government contractor, having a degree (in my experience anyway) is almost a requirement. When your company bids on a gov't job, they actually list how many staff members have advanced degrees. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaph
Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
The government has had a long history of requiring its contractors to employ people with degrees and advanced degrees. I am in the Washington area and all of the big contractors Lockheed etc really want these BS of Computer people which is why they get such fat salary packages for 21 year olds with no experience but a BS degree. One figure I was quoted was like 48,000 to start, not including signing bonus. That just seems like a lot to me :) Uncle Sam is beginning to loosen the requirements for its contractors though. - Original Message - From: Kelly Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 10:57 AM Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) i worked government contracts for 4 years my 2 year music degree was enough never had a problem getting a job where a Bachelors was required, however I did have to back up my qualifications with proof and experience which was easy enough. I think with Gov. Contracts your PAY may suffer a little if you dont hvae the degree but outside of government it hasnt mattered one bit for me. Kelly -Original Message- From: Howell, Katie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) ok, I'll bite: BA in theater design (believe it or not, the drafting/scenic design classes really help with page layout) then back to school (16 yrs later) for a masters in Computer Resources and Information Management. My 2 bits for the value of a degree...when working for a government contractor, having a degree (in my experience anyway) is almost a requirement. When your company bids on a gov't job, they actually list how many staff members have advanced degrees. -Original Message- From: Sharon DiOrio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) Bachelor of Fine Arts here. "Well, the application is busted, but it sho does look purty." Sharon At 01:24 PM 5/15/2000 -0400, Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM wrote: oddly enough, my degree is a split major in writing and computer science. ;) Chris Olive DOHRS Website Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stewart McGowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:18 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to langu
Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little)
For me it was an undergraduate Arts degree in Psych and post graduate degrees in Cognitive Psychology and Perception. Most of the technically related stuff I've learned came about during my pursuit of my degrees sincethe university psych departments were too cheap to hire programmers when they had graduate assistants who had to work for dirt cheap. So I guess my college education paid off. These days however, a substantial part of the initial design work seems to involve more information architecture, focusing on Perception and Cognitive Psych. Go figure. larry -- Larry C. Lyons EBStor.com 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 201 Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 tel: (703) 393-7930 x253 fax: (703) 393-2659 http://www.ebstor.com http://www.pacel.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. -- "Stewart McGowan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 71CD353D10D3D3119E4B00508BA0F171108A1C@EXCHANGE1">news:71CD353D10D3D3119E4B00508BA0F171108A1C@EXCHANGE1... I don't know about in the states but out of ten developers, nine have degrees in technical subjects and well the boss has an english degree :) Stew -Original Message- From: Todd Ashworth [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 May 2000 18:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: School Days - (was: Lighten things up a little) OK .. I'll give you that, but then again, how hard would it really be to pick up on those concepts on your own? I don't doubt the value of that degree in certain situations; It *can* give you an edge. In many cases, especially when dealing with jobs involving new technology, just having the degree is more important than what it's in .. if the degree is even important at all. A college education does tend to make one a more well rounded individual and I suppose that's desirable to some people. Unfortunately, the way I see it is that the college degree won't play a big role for me until I get more experience under my belt and move on up into much more competitive markets. In today's computer age, you can go a good long ways without one, but they really help if you want to get to the top :) So .. I say if you have the chance to go, take it. It can't hurt and will help, even if indirectly. Besides, I just want to say I is edumacated .. That's why I'm going back for a masters in biology. :) Heh .. wonder how I can work that into ColdFusion development? hmmm .. cf_mitosis? Or maybe start a new company, hire Linus Torlvolds and call it Transmetaphase? OK .. I'm just being silly now. Seriously, has anyone had any experience with ColdFusion jobs where the employers were concerned with the level of post secondary education? I'm really curious now. .Todd - Original Message - From: "Olive, Christopher M Mr USACHPPM" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Lighten things up a little | i'm afraid i'd have to disagree with that. i may not "use" anything i | learned in college in respect that they never taught me ASP, CF, IIS, etc. | however, the concept of a stack, queue, linked list, structure, array, etc., | is universal to languages (ok, well, most languages). it is in | *understanding* the concepts of these things that college shows its value. | because of this (fairly) solid foundation in programming *theory*, i am | better able to leverage my skill sets in languages i know. more | importantly, they help me in learning something new. when you boil it down, | all languages are the same (ok, there are sub-types of programming languages | (procedural, functional, OO)), all you need to know is where to put the semi | colons. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
