[CITTERN] Re: [CITTERN]
You have a very nice sounding cetra, Stuart. I suppose you remember that Ford cautions about getting a well-fretted instrument - the Hintz I used to have had a very flat 7th fret, certainly not something from any temperament that I've ever heard. Eventually, I had it it redone. It's not period, but perhaps you could consider some compensation on the saddle and or nut. Have a close look at the nut and make sure it's flush up to the fingerboard and that the strings lie in their slots right up to the edge of the nut. Looking forward to your next recording! Doc On Aug 31, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: On 22 August 2010 11:47, ro...@cetrapublishing.com ro...@cetrapublishing.com wrote: I can suggest two things to look at to resolve intonation issues. First, have a look at the nut. Do the strings lay in the grooves properly? It could be that the top of the nut is curved or that the grooves are not cut properly, so that some or all of the strings don't lay in the groove right up to the edge of the nut. The other thing is to experiment with bridge placement. The theory is that the distance nut to 12th fret and 12th fret to bridge are the same, but that doesn't always work in practice. You might also find that angling the bridge helps intonation as well. Let us know how it goes. Thanks Doc. I moved the bridge back a few mms and it really has made a difference. I can get top e in tune now (and g). Better still, the tuning lower down is better too. Here's a dead easy duet from a Pocket Book from 1775. (No high notes, though) The tuning still isn't right, but it's better. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/2citras.mp3 Stuart Doc I was going to play another piece by Ritter, a Rondeau. But in the minor section it has an E flat arpeggio above the fifth position and I just can't get my guittar in tune up there. Perhaps my guittar is particularly poorly fretted. Those guittars with capo holes must have be well fretted. I suspect the Geminiani pieces would be unplayable on my guittar (which may not be untypical). Stuart mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html mail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
[CITTERN] Re: [CITTERN]
ro...@cetrapublishing.com wrote: I can suggest two things to look at to resolve intonation issues. First, have a look at the nut. Do the strings lay in the grooves properly? It could be that the top of the nut is curved or that the grooves are not cut properly, so that some or all of the strings don't lay in the groove right up to the edge of the nut. The other thing is to experiment with bridge placement. The theory is that the distance nut to 12th fret and 12th fret to bridge are the same, but that doesn't always work in practice. You might also find that angling the bridge helps intonation as well. Let us know how it goes. Doc Thanks. I'll have a go at your suggestions. I hadn't realised just how much out of tune it is above the seventh fret. For example, tuning open first course (g) to second course at fret 3, means that the second course (e) is hopelessly out of tune with first course, top e. It's been a hot day today and the upper strings aren't holding their tuning at all.I suppose the pegs are slipping ever so slightly (even though they been sitting in that pegbox for 250 years. I think the ghost of the original owner is playing with me. Stuart I was going to play another piece by Ritter, a Rondeau. But in the minor section it has an E flat arpeggio above the fifth position and I just can't get my guittar in tune up there. Perhaps my guittar is particularly poorly fretted. Those guittars with capo holes must have be well fretted. I suspect the Geminiani pieces would be unplayable on my guittar (which may not be untypical). Stuart mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern on ebay
Damien Delgrossi wrote: http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260480812480ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:FR:1123 Envoyé de mon iPhone How much did it sell for, Damien? The photos were quite dark and it was hard to see details. It looked like a nice instrument but was it a made from a kit, do you think? Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.114/2402 - Release Date: 09/29/09 05:54:00
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern in Crete
Hello Peter, This postcard shows the famous cretan duet Lira-Bulgari or Lira-Laouto, still popular today. But I agree that the shape of the plucked instrument is a cittern shape. I don't know if this picture wants to show a cittern, I don't think so. But it makes me thinking to a corsican proverb about harmony and cittern which says Pà fà un bon' accordu ci voli cetar, viulinu è timpanu (To play the perfect tune (or chord?) we need to have a violin and a cittern). In several proverbs, or written sources from all Europe I have found this kind of duet cittern and bowed instrument. Thanks Peter, All the best, Damien - Original Message - From: Peter Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Damien Delgrossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Cittern NET cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [CITTERN] Cittern in Crete Hi Damien, I hope this works. I attach a photo of a postcard sent me some ten years ago from Crete by Patrick Delaval. It seems to be evidence that citterns were at least still a folk-memory, even if not still in use. Best wishes, Peter On 28 Nov 2008, at 20:13, Damien Delgrossi wrote: Dear all, Two weeks ago I spent some good times with a Cretan group who was on tour in Corsica. They played many Cretan and Greek flutes, Laouto (Cretan wire-strung lute similar to italian mandoloncello), Bulgari (built by ning member Dimitris Rapakousios), Lavta (Constantinople Lute, more or less fretted arabic oud to explain it simply) etc etc... The plucked instruments player from Crete, Vangelis Tsagarakis, told me a very interesting thing : A long, long time ago Crete also had the cetra. He told me that because I had my cetera with me and he said that they used to have exactly the same instrument on the island of Crete. I was wondering if they used to have the same 8 course cittern or the renaissance 4 or 6 course cittern, popular in Italy and Europe during the Renaissance and after. He told me that the cetra in Crete probably had 4 courses. So I have my own idea about this without any information nor sources except this oral one. Candia (the old name for Crete) was administrated, colonised and directed by the Venitian Republic after the taking of Constantinople by the crusaders from 1204 to 1669. The Venitian Republic held Crete for about 4 and a half centuries. I think that the cittern was in Crete because of this strong Italian influence. Does anybody have any information, sources or anything to say about this? Thanks, Damien To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern in Crete
Hi Damien, there is a considerable body of literature from venetian Crete, especially theatre plays but also poems. Most of it got printed in Venice back in the 17th century and there are modern editions around as these texts are still appreciated. I can't remember of the top off my head of any reference to cetra. There are lots of references in lagouto in the long poem Erotokritos http://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%95%CF%81%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82 which could be either the renaissance/baroque lute, the modern laouto or some intermediate instrument. Given the island's turbulent history I doubt any instruments would have survived. Corfu and surrounding islands would be a better place to look for them, as they stayed under venetian control till the end, and had strong italian ties even after that. Cheers Stelios - Original Message From: Damien Delgrossi Subject: [CITTERN] Cittern in Crete Dear all, Two weeks ago I spent some good times with a Cretan group who was on tour in Corsica. They played many Cretan and Greek flutes, Laouto (Cretan wire-strung lute similar to italian mandoloncello), Bulgari (built by ning member Dimitris Rapakousios), Lavta (Constantinople Lute, more or less fretted arabic oud to explain it simply) etc etc... The plucked instruments player from Crete, Vangelis Tsagarakis, told me a very interesting thing : A long, long time ago Crete also had the cetra. He told me that because I had my cetera with me and he said that they used to have exactly the same instrument on the island of Crete. I was wondering if they used to have the same 8 course cittern or the renaissance 4 or 6 course cittern, popular in Italy and Europe during the Renaissance and after. He told me that the cetra in Crete probably had 4 courses. So I have my own idea about this without any information nor sources except this oral one. Candia (the old name for Crete) was administrated, colonised and directed by the Venitian Republic after the taking of Constantinople by the crusaders from 1204 to 1669. The Venitian Republic held Crete for about 4 and a half centuries. I think that the cittern was in Crete because of this strong Italian influence. Does anybody have any information, sources or anything to say about this? Thanks, Damien To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern in Crete
Hi Damien, I hope this works. I attach a photo of a postcard sent me some ten years ago from Crete by Patrick Delaval. It seems to be evidence that citterns were at least still a folk-memory, even if not still in use. Best wishes, Peter On 28 Nov 2008, at 20:13, Damien Delgrossi wrote: Dear all, Two weeks ago I spent some good times with a Cretan group who was on tour in Corsica. They played many Cretan and Greek flutes, Laouto (Cretan wire-strung lute similar to italian mandoloncello), Bulgari (built by ning member Dimitris Rapakousios), Lavta (Constantinople Lute, more or less fretted arabic oud to explain it simply) etc etc... The plucked instruments player from Crete, Vangelis Tsagarakis, told me a very interesting thing : A long, long time ago Crete also had the cetra. He told me that because I had my cetera with me and he said that they used to have exactly the same instrument on the island of Crete. I was wondering if they used to have the same 8 course cittern or the renaissance 4 or 6 course cittern, popular in Italy and Europe during the Renaissance and after. He told me that the cetra in Crete probably had 4 courses. So I have my own idea about this without any information nor sources except this oral one. Candia (the old name for Crete) was administrated, colonised and directed by the Venitian Republic after the taking of Constantinople by the crusaders from 1204 to 1669. The Venitian Republic held Crete for about 4 and a half centuries. I think that the cittern was in Crete because of this strong Italian influence. Does anybody have any information, sources or anything to say about this? Thanks, Damien To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern in Crete
To my knowledge, The Dartmouth list does not support attachments... The Ning site is a good place for them, and I am always willing and happy to post them via my cittern site if needed. -A: Hi Damien, I hope this works. I attach a photo of a postcard sent me some ten years ago from Crete by Patrick Delaval. It seems to be evidence that citterns were at least still a folk-memory, even if not still in use. Best wishes, Peter On 28 Nov 2008, at 20:13, Damien Delgrossi wrote: Dear all, Two weeks ago I spent some good times with a Cretan group who was on tour in Corsica. They played many Cretan and Greek flutes, Laouto (Cretan wire-strung lute similar to italian mandoloncello), Bulgari (built by ning member Dimitris Rapakousios), Lavta (Constantinople Lute, more or less fretted arabic oud to explain it simply) etc etc... The plucked instruments player from Crete, Vangelis Tsagarakis, told me a very interesting thing : A long, long time ago Crete also had the cetra. He told me that because I had my cetera with me and he said that they used to have exactly the same instrument on the island of Crete. I was wondering if they used to have the same 8 course cittern or the renaissance 4 or 6 course cittern, popular in Italy and Europe during the Renaissance and after. He told me that the cetra in Crete probably had 4 courses. So I have my own idea about this without any information nor sources except this oral one. Candia (the old name for Crete) was administrated, colonised and directed by the Venitian Republic after the taking of Constantinople by the crusaders from 1204 to 1669. The Venitian Republic held Crete for about 4 and a half centuries. I think that the cittern was in Crete because of this strong Italian influence. Does anybody have any information, sources or anything to say about this? Thanks, Damien To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern Ning site
Dear Doc and all, Just signed up, and yes: it's MUCH easier to use (at least in my experience). Good luck with it, and thanks! Kevin On May 15, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Doc Rossi wrote: I've followed Daniel Stokes lead and set up a Ning site for the cittern, Maybe it will prove easier to use than the Cafe site. http://cittern.ning.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern prices
A few people have asked me about the reference to flatback lute. The answer is: I don't know! I'm just as curious as the next person Any other ideas? -A: At 10:33 AM 2/12/2008, Christopher Davies wrote: Andrew, I'm assuming by flatback lutes he refers to the vihuela/viola da mano-type instruments which the fellow who has the 'cypher' site has documented (and refers to as vihuela/guitars) as existing in France, Germany, Sweden as well as the South in the early 16th c.? Andrew Hartig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/09/08 10:54 AM And another, from Reconstructing the consort lessons of Richard Reade, by Matthew Spring, Lute News 55, June 2000, p.8: The goods of Robert Mallet, Manciple of St. Edmund Hall were inventoried on 2 July 1612. In his 'workhouse' (workshop) was some some furniture, and '4 orpharions, 5 citternes whereof one in a case, 2 citternes unfinisht, a flatback lute case, 2 chists, working tooles, with divers lumber', together valued with the furniture at £5. 4s. 4d. By comparison, John Mathew 'singingman' at Christ Church College and whose probate inventory was proved on 23 September 1602 ... had 'a paire of virginals' as did most singing men at Chrisy Church, 'songbooks' which was relatively unusual, and emeleven/em lutes, valued together at £3. 6s. 8d.--not very expensive at just over 6 shillings each--and a chest of viols, valued at £4. Spring mentions that some (all?) of this information comes from work done by Michael Fleming on the wills and probates of Oxford musicians and instrument makers, some of which was published in the Galpin Society Journal 53 (April 2000). Maybe someone who knows Mr. Fleming or has a copy of GSJ can add further to this list. -Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern prices
Did they have Ren Faires in 1612:-) - Original Message - From: Andrew Hartig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cittern cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: [CITTERN] Re: cittern prices A few people have asked me about the reference to flatback lute. The answer is: I don't know! I'm just as curious as the next person Any other ideas? -A: At 10:33 AM 2/12/2008, Christopher Davies wrote: Andrew, I'm assuming by flatback lutes he refers to the vihuela/viola da mano-type instruments which the fellow who has the 'cypher' site has documented (and refers to as vihuela/guitars) as existing in France, Germany, Sweden as well as the South in the early 16th c.? Andrew Hartig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/09/08 10:54 AM And another, from Reconstructing the consort lessons of Richard Reade, by Matthew Spring, Lute News 55, June 2000, p.8: The goods of Robert Mallet, Manciple of St. Edmund Hall were inventoried on 2 July 1612. In his 'workhouse' (workshop) was some some furniture, and '4 orpharions, 5 citternes whereof one in a case, 2 citternes unfinisht, a flatback lute case, 2 chists, working tooles, with divers lumber', together valued with the furniture at £5. 4s. 4d. By comparison, John Mathew 'singingman' at Christ Church College and whose probate inventory was proved on 23 September 1602 ... had 'a paire of virginals' as did most singing men at Chrisy Church, 'songbooks' which was relatively unusual, and emeleven/em lutes, valued together at £3. 6s. 8d.--not very expensive at just over 6 shillings each--and a chest of viols, valued at £4. Spring mentions that some (all?) of this information comes from work done by Michael Fleming on the wills and probates of Oxford musicians and instrument makers, some of which was published in the Galpin Society Journal 53 (April 2000). Maybe someone who knows Mr. Fleming or has a copy of GSJ can add further to this list. -Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern prices
Dear All, In answer to Lots of interesting information coming up, but now I ask myself who could afford 5-10 shillings. Here's the 17CX N-E list of citterns again, with the names, occupation(s) and total value of estate (as pounds/shilling/pence) thrown in: (1654) Augustine Walker, sea captain and merchant: 1. Citterne: 5 shillings (total value 221/7/6) (1660) Comfort Starr, surgeon: A Smale Carpitt a Gittorne: 6 shillings (total value 404/13/0) (1660) Joseph Farnsworth, yeoman: A trible viall a Cithern: 1 pound (total value 206/28/2) (1662) Nathaniel Upham, ? yeoman, sometime preacher: By a Cittorne a Case for it: 15 shillings (total value 48/17/0) (1662) Samuel Haugh, minister: A Citturne: 8 shillings (total value 1,797/11/10) (1662) Henry Blague, brickburnor (sic): A Cittorne a hat rufe: 8 shillings (total value 464/12/9) (1665) Peter Hubbard, mariner: 1 citterne Silver: 2 pounds, 5 shillings (total value 197/8/0) (1666) Thomas Wells, yeoman: a citterne: 10 shillings, 1 penny (total value 1,214/3/3) (1667) Samuel Winsley, no occupation given: a sittern: 1 pound (total value 421/1/0) (1667) Jonathan Browne, ? merchant: one old sitterne an old case with some bottells an old barrell: 6 shillings, 8 pence (total value 68/8/8) (1668) Jonathan Eliot, minister: 1 citterne a Case: 8 shillings (457/2/5) (1672) Lieutenant Joshua Fisher, yeoman:1 citterene: 5 shillings (total value 1,145/6/5) (1676) John Franks, cloth merchant and innkeeper: one Cittron: 15 shillings (total value 187/3/8) (1676) Ralph Day, yeoman: one Table, Joyned Stooles, chayers, Cushins, one Round basket, one sitterne, one warmeing pan some smal things: 2 pounds, 4 shillings (total value 262/13/2) (1677) Samuel Alcott, physician: 1 Great Looking glas-i Cittron case napkins, cloth goods: 2 pounds (total value 639/15/0) (1677) Thomas Shepard, minister: A Citharen: 10 shillings (total value 2,386/4/0) (1679) Thomas Sexton, mariner: 1 old Cittern: 2 shillings (total value 85/8/0) (1680) Elizabeth Holloway, cloth shopkeeper: one cittern: 12 shillings (total value 458/8/0) (1683) David Jackson, tailor: One old Cittern: 4 shillings (total value 14/14/3) (1685) Captain William Condey, mariner: a Quilt, a Cytorn, a baskett Toyes: 3 pounds (total value 201/16/0) (1688) William Marshall, mariner: 1 Cittorn, Andirons, doggs, fireshovell, Tongs Looking glass, glasses: 2 pounds, 12 shillings (230/18/10) (1692) Joshua Atwater, mariner and shopkeeper: two cittorns one gittorn: 10 shillings (total value 18/11/0) By way of comparison--no bandoras here, it seems, Peter--here are the lutes: (1659) Beter Bulkeley, minister: 2 lutes: 4 pounds (total value1,302/0/11) And that's it. You'd have to be pretty rich--and/or pretty foolish--to bring a lute to the other side of the moon. My favorite entry is still Thomas Wells, yeoman: a citterne: 10 shillings, 1 penny; now, that assessor earned his money. Note that Wells' estate is one of the BIG onesevery penny counts, you know. So, the answer in this little part of the 17C seems to be: citterns were fairly well distributed throughout the property-owning class; we have everything from estates of 14 pounds to 2,386 pounds. Even if the smallest amounts represented estates drained by poverty brought on by long illness, it would STILL be extremely interesting that the deceased hung onto their citterns right to the bitter end. The closest we get to a barber is the surgeon--at this time, almost a synonym--who is fairly well off. The godly trade is well represented, which should certainly put paid to any nonsense about the puritans and their alledged distate for music, per se. Or so it seems to me An unproficient, yet true Lover of the Cithorn Kevin McDermott Groveland, Essex Co., Mass. Bay Mr Starkey obviously had money (perhaps not as much as Ringo), and a barber made enough to hang one in his shop. Who were his customers, and how many people had a family member cut their hair (if they cut it). Nice one Kevin! Not a cittern but to show the high value of bandoras ( and transport). From David Price, 'Patrons and Musicians of the English Renaissance', CUP 1981. Hardwick ms 10a July 1602. To Mr Starkey at hys going away, for a bandora iils, treble lute xxs, bass vyoll xls, treble vyoll xxs, for the case to lay them in xvis, and that he paid for the carriage of these from London to Hardwick xiis. In modern numbers the above read as: 48, 20, 40, 20, 16 and 12 shillings. Peter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern prices
Flatback lute? That's a new one on me. I've seen a few modern instrument that fit that description, but they were basically tarted up folk guitars. I've never heard of a historical instrument with that description before. Anyone have any idea what exactly a flatback lute from 1612 would be? My first thought was an orpharion, but that's already listed. Guy - Original Message - From: Andrew Hartig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cittern cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: [CITTERN] Re: cittern prices And another, from Reconstructing the consort lessons of Richard Reade, by Matthew Spring, Lute News 55, June 2000, p.8: The goods of Robert Mallet, Manciple of St. Edmund Hall were inventoried on 2 July 1612. In his 'workhouse' (workshop) was some some furniture, and '4 orpharions, 5 citternes whereof one in a case, 2 citternes unfinisht, a flatback lute case, 2 chists, working tooles, with divers lumber', together valued with the furniture at £5. 4s. 4d. By comparison, John Mathew 'singingman' at Christ Church College and whose probate inventory was proved on 23 September 1602 ... had 'a paire of virginals' as did most singing men at Chrisy Church, 'songbooks' which was relatively unusual, and emeleven/em lutes, valued together at £3. 6s. 8d.--not very expensive at just over 6 shillings each--and a chest of viols, valued at £4. Spring mentions that some (all?) of this information comes from work done by Michael Fleming on the wills and probates of Oxford musicians and instrument makers, some of which was published in the Galpin Society Journal 53 (April 2000). Maybe someone who knows Mr. Fleming or has a copy of GSJ can add further to this list. -Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern prices
And another, from Reconstructing the consort lessons of Richard Reade, by Matthew Spring, Lute News 55, June 2000, p.8: The goods of Robert Mallet, Manciple of St. Edmund Hall were inventoried on 2 July 1612. In his 'workhouse' (workshop) was some some furniture, and '4 orpharions, 5 citternes whereof one in a case, 2 citternes unfinisht, a flatback lute case, 2 chists, working tooles, with divers lumber', together valued with the furniture at £5. 4s. 4d. By comparison, John Mathew 'singingman' at Christ Church College and whose probate inventory was proved on 23 September 1602 ... had 'a paire of virginals' as did most singing men at Chrisy Church, 'songbooks' which was relatively unusual, and emeleven/em lutes, valued together at £3. 6s. 8d.--not very expensive at just over 6 shillings each--and a chest of viols, valued at £4. Spring mentions that some (all?) of this information comes from work done by Michael Fleming on the wills and probates of Oxford musicians and instrument makers, some of which was published in the Galpin Society Journal 53 (April 2000). Maybe someone who knows Mr. Fleming or has a copy of GSJ can add further to this list. -Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern on ebay
It looks like one, indeed. Although 'John' sounds not a portuguese name, there are at least two luthiers in Portugal in the 19th century with the name 'Reis'. There are several portuguese guitars in the 19th century with that kind of tuning mechanism (no Preston machine). Martina Doc Rossi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: This may be a 19c portuguese guitarra. http://cgi.ebay.nl/Vintage-old-antique-mandolin-John-J- Reis-1884_W0QQitemZ280122674707QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10179QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[CITTERN] Re: cittern cafe
This sounds very interesting, Doc, particularly if its use complements, rather than overlaps, with this list. The idea of on-line lessons interests me as we don't seem to get much discussion about actual playing techniques here. Despite all our interesting diversions into the naming and constructional details of various types of citterns I have to admit that actually playing the thing should probably be our first priority. I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a web site called 'whistle this' whose purpose is to provide on-line lessons for the tin whistle. This takes the form of a different tune for everyone to learn each month (the music manuscript is on the site) and sound files of a couple of 'experts' giving their renditions of the piece. All members are encouraged to record themselves as they learn the tune and then post the sound files ontot the site for comment by the others. Perhaps there is a way in which some of this couldbe taken as ideas for 'Cittern Cafe' ? Kevin. -- Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good morning folks, I've taken a domain name called cittern cafe in order to put up an interactive site dedicated to the cittern - which means anything from the renaissance instrument and before to Irish bouzouki, (CBOM) etc.. This means on-line lessons, discussion, pix, mp3s, videos, tabs, whatever members want. It will take a while to get it on-line, but any and all ideas are welcome now. If this topic isn't appropriate to the list, write me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the best, Doc Doc Rossi Le Grand Domaine Boulevard des Dames 26 13002 Marseille France www.cetrapublishing.com/artists/rossi/doc.htm www.magnatune.com/artists/docrossi.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (+33) (0)4 91 52 90 45 cell: (+33) (0)6 80 01 58 47 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[CITTERN] Re: cittern cafe
Sounds interesting, kevin - thanks. i'll check it out. On May 30, 2007, at 2:50 PM, KEVIN LAWTON wrote: This sounds very interesting, Doc, particularly if its use complements, rather than overlaps, with this list. The idea of on-line lessons interests me as we don't seem to get much discussion about actual playing techniques here. Despite all our interesting diversions into the naming and constructional details of various types of citterns I have to admit that actually playing the thing should probably be our first priority. I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a web site called 'whistle this' whose purpose is to provide on-line lessons for the tin whistle. This takes the form of a different tune for everyone to learn each month (the music manuscript is on the site) and sound files of a couple of 'experts' giving their renditions of the piece. All members are encouraged to record themselves as they learn the tune and then post the sound files ontot the site for comment by the others. Perhaps there is a way in which some of this couldbe taken as ideas for 'Cittern Cafe' ? Kevin. -- Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good morning folks, I've taken a domain name called cittern cafe in order to put up an interactive site dedicated to the cittern - which means anything from the renaissance instrument and before to Irish bouzouki, (CBOM) etc.. This means on-line lessons, discussion, pix, mp3s, videos, tabs, whatever members want. It will take a while to get it on-line, but any and all ideas are welcome now. If this topic isn't appropriate to the list, write me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the best, Doc Doc Rossi Le Grand Domaine Boulevard des Dames 26 13002 Marseille France www.cetrapublishing.com/artists/rossi/doc.htm www.magnatune.com/artists/docrossi.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (+33) (0)4 91 52 90 45 cell: (+33) (0)6 80 01 58 47 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[CITTERN] Re: cittern at Christie's
i've got a copy of ford's book. On Mar 27, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Andrew Rutherford wrote: Hi cittern people, Two things: 1) there's a very interesting-looking tiny (34cm stringlength) English(?) cittern (c.1600) for sale at Christie's in New York on Apr. 2nd. I haven't seen it yet but it looks pretty good in the photo. They're estimating $4000 to $6000, which is too much for me, but seems like a bargain... Lot 34. Christie's.com should get you there. 2) Does anyone have a copy of Ann Ford's guittar book? (books?) andy rutherford To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern videos
Damien Delgrossi wrote: Good evening everybody, Living In corsica and as a corsican guy i know the cetera but i am looking for videos of different cittern, arch cittern of the world. Where can i watch some cittern player, does anybody who play can send me a video, wich repertoire can I find??? Thanks for your help, Have a nice day, Best wishes, Damien. :-) I've put up just one page of a website on the French cistre of the the late 18th century. It's here (and the links don't works yet): http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/cytre/ I've got lots more information but I am struggling to think of a more interesting way of presenting it! The French arch-cittern was known in it's time as simply a 'cistre ou guitarre allemande' (with different spellings for 'cistre' and guittare'). It is a seven-course instrument with extra basses. The music for cistres 'tuorbes' is usually playable on seven-course instruments: the lower notes are marked with octave signs, to be played on the low bass notes if the cistre has them. As well as the French repertoire, Lefevre wrote a tutor in English and published in Britain for the cistre - an arch-cittern - in 1790. It has some simple music and it didns't catch on. But there is lots of French music (some of it pinched form the English guitar repertoire). Damien, one of the French publications by DeMesse has this 'Avertissementt': Le plus habile ouvrier qui ait existe A Paris pour faire les Cythres etoit feu M. Meling; Celui qui lui a succede pour le talent en ce genre d'Instrument est M. Laurent, Luthier, Passage de Saumon, Au Cythre Allemande. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern Video
In einer eMail vom 19.03.2007 08:31:26 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I played with Pantagruel. There are quite a few pieces with cittern, so it may be of interest to you lot out there.. MArk, All I can say to that is WOW! Same applies to the other clips on the page, cittern or not. Serious music with great vitality, ancient music with immediate appeal. Just superb music! The singer has wonderful presence, but even so, she doesn't upstage the instrumentalists. Very balanced! And I liked the settings and the (to my eye) pretty convincing Tudor togs. When are Pantagruel playing in the south-west of Germany? I've got to see and hear this ... Thanks for the link! Cheers, John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern Video
Hi, the correct link should be http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individualvideoid=2015977403 If you still have problems you can click on the video section of our MySpace page at www.myspace.com/pantagruelian All the best mark -Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verschickt: Mo., 19. Mrz. 2007, 13:54 Thema: Re: [CITTERN] Cittern Video Hi: Sorry, but I'm not sure how to use the link you sent. I don'tr see anythingl like the vidoes you're talking about. How do I find them? Brad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Cittern friends. I have just uploaded a bootleg video from the Belgium Lute Festival yesterday, where I played with Pantagruel. There are quite a few pieces with cittern, so it may be of interest to you lot out there.. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual;; videoid=2015977403 It includes extracts from Over the Mountains The Laydie Louthians Lilte Kathreen Oggie Come live with me O Thou silver Thames Then wilt thou goe Stingo Parson's Farewell.. All the best Mark www.pantagruel.de www.myspace.com/pantagruelian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. Kostenlos: AOL eMail 2 GB Speicherplatz sowie erstklassiger Spam- und eMail Virenschutz. Sichern Sie sich Ihre pers=C3=B6nliche eMail Adresse noch heute! --
[CITTERN] Re: [cittern] Fado article
Begin forwarded message: Interesting article in the NY Times this morning about fado music in Portugal, including a nice slide show of the musicians, venues, and the museum of fado in Lisbon. Lots of pics that feature one of the major surviving cittern traditions in Europe: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/21/world/europe/21portugal.html -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern siting
Doc Rossi wrote: Bonjour, I was watching a few things on YouTube and found this interesting item. Identify the cittern hanging over Maddy's right shoulder. Some other nice instruments hanging in the room, to go with a solid body dulcimer and the sky-blue Tele. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGHYl7Kv50g Someone will know precisely, but it appears to be an English guittar or an 18th c cittern not a modern one, to which a more solid bridge has been added. I don't think it is a waldzither though John Pearse says he played waldzither in the London folk scene which would be 6-10 years before this video. Quite a lot of old instruments were around then, and not highly valued either, often cannibalised and fitted with new necks or bridges. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern/guittar
I was looking for something else when I found a scribbled note I'd made to myself. A fellow named C. Barbandt (probably Charles, another German musician active in London) offered a Yearly Subscription of New Music to be delivered monthly. The 10 June 1759 issue includes A Lesson for the Cittera [sic] or Guittar, while the 10 December 1759 number contains Two Lessons for the Guittar or Cittern. Doc Doc Rossi Le Grand Domaine (24) Boulevard des Dames 26 13002 Marseille France www.musicintime.co.uk/DocRossi/doc.htm www.magnatune.com/artists/docrossi.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (+33) (0)4 91 52 90 45 cell: (+33) (0)6 80 01 58 47 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: [CITTERN]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Stuart,
At the risk of repeating myself again (and boring everyone to death):
I think one of the reasons terms other than cittern were used so often is
that the composers were Italian, for
example, so they used the proper word for cittern in their dialect, spelled
in a way they (or the printer) thought fit.
Some Italians such as Geminiani and Marella used the terms citra,
cetra etc. And occasionally those terms crop up in other places too. One
Pocket book for the 'guitar' also uses the term 'citra' for a duet and
'guittar' for another duet. Merchi didn't use either 'cetra' or 'citra'
but used the Italian for guitar, 'chitarra'.
But anyway there were plenty of other people - Rush, Thackray, Oswald,
Zuchert, Schuman etc etc writing, arranging and compiling music and they
mostly used the terms 'guittar' and guitar'.
I've compiled a small collection of (mainly) front pages of 18th century
English guitar publications and put them up as a temporary webpage. Tell
me if you think it is an unfair representation:
www.tuningsinthirds.com/EG/
(I've also spent a lot of time (grad, post grad and post doc) at the BL and
several other libraries and archives, as I
think you know.)
Look at a Renaissance guitar, then an 18th-c guitar. Quite a difference,
no? Look at a Renaissance cittern and an
18th-c cittern. Again, quite a difference. Most people have no problem
calling the guitars guitars, so what's the
problem with the citterns?
The problem is that it begs the question. What is the problem of calling
an English guitar a guitar? Or a German guitar , a Portuguese guitar or
Polish guitar, a guitar?
What was the problem of people in the 18th century who seemed determined
to call these things guitars and not citterns? Or they wanted to refer
to them equivocally - like Marella's 'Compositions for the Cetra or
Guittar'. Or the French practice of calling their variant the 'cistre ou
guittare allemande'. Or the guitarra in Portugal, and references in
other parts of Europe to the englische Guittare, and the Polish guitar.
This practice predates the1750s. The image of a 'guitar-spieler' in
J.C.Weigl's 'Musicalische Theatrum' - an image of a bloke holding a
you-know-what, but he's called a guitar player. The practice even
predates the 18th century: the seventeenth century guittern and
bell-guittern in England.
Doc - of course, I can see your point. An English guitar is much more
like a cittern than a guitar. But there is no such thing as a cittern
essence.If people in the past wanted to conceptualise the instrument as
a guitar ('lesser guitar', 'common guitar' or whatever ) then I think we
have to respect that. Joseph Carpentier in France in the 1770s was
absolutely adamant that the instrument was not a 'cistre' but a
'cythre' ('cythre ou guitharre allemande) - something quite different.
And Pedro's distinction between the english Guittar and the cittern
reflects the same sentiment today.
Recently I found something from a long time ago, written by Jeremy
Montagu (Britain's grand old man of organology and ethnomusicology).
Writing about the EG in FOMRHI: If it doesn't look like a cittern, then
it isn't one. And it doesn't. It's a high-handed opinion but it's yet
another expression of the view that EG-type instruments aren't so easily
classified as citterns.
So that's the problem with citterns.
Renaissance-style citterns continued to be made,
and this attests to the popularity and
usefulness of the form. The later style instrument has lasted a rather
long time as well.
I think it's a good idea to keep in mind that cittern, guitar, and the many
variants in other languages, come from a
common root. That doesn't mean the instruments are the same, but that the
words could be interchangeable if
certain distinctions aren't that important (Foucault has some interesting
things to say about this). Rather than
preparing a table showing uses of cittern and similar terms, why not do a
table of guitar tunings used over the
centuries? I don't really think the tuning makes the instrument different.
If I tune my guitar like a lute, it's still a
guitar. (If I tune my orpharion like a bandora, however, things might get a
little tricky.) I say that the Renaissance-
type of cittern is one type of cittern; the EG and PG types are other types
of citterns, as are waldzithers, halszithers,
and several other instruments around the world. Renaissance guitar, Baroque
guitar, guitarra batente, classical,
steel-string, 12-string, archtop, electric (solid, semi-acoustic and
hollow body) are all types of guitar. What is the
problem with having different types of cittern?
I think if we want to get into a philosophical discussion about time's
arrow, or better yet, parallel movement, we'd
better do that on our own.
Yes. Sorry about that Doc. One drink too many.
Stuart
Ciao,
Doc
[CITTERN] Re: [CITTERN]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bondi', Stuart, I'm sorry you can't understand what I meant by zig-zag development. It's a Taoist concept that means non- linear, right? With no goal in mind, one is left simply with what is. Not so difficult to apply to cittern history, is it? I don't think I can cope with a non-linear history, time's arrow being what it is. And I think I have less of a goal in mind than you do. Simply 'what is' (sounds like Heidegger) is that instruments - citterns, guitars, even lutes...even harps...get (as they say these days) mashed up from time to time. The zig-zag history just bursts the cittern mould. Pedro, I think, sees that, and distinguishes between the cittern and the (english Guittar) - but on his own definitions, and as you rightly say, the PG is an EG. I would have only a few issues to take up with Pedro's comments and that would be the rather narrow definition of cittern - there are many sizes and tunings even of the Renaissance instrument. Plus, I would count the PG and the EG as citterns. As I've said many, many times, if you take a look at published works for EG, you'll find many instances of the word cittern in its various forms. See my article... Although it was a long time ago I spent many, many hours in the British Library looking at everything I could find on the english Guittar. (c. 1750-1800) I made notes on everything (badly I admit). I even got to see Robert Spencer's library. I've seen hundreds of publications. I think I saw the term 'cittern' only once. 'Citra', Cittra', 'Cetra' etc are fairly common (why didn't they use the term 'cittern'?). I could make a table easily enough of usage. But most often the instrument is referred to as 'guitar' (sometimes 'lesser' guitar) or 'guittar'. Doc, I think we may have disagreed on this before but I'm happy with 'no goal in mind' - the EG is a bit of a G, maybe a bit of a lute or, even a bit of a harp, but I don't think you are. Personally, I wouldn't consider the PG tuning as reentrant because of the octave pairs, but an arrangement of fifths and seconds is a common cittern. However, Pedro cites a nominal agd'e' tuning as standard, which is not the case: it was one of the tunings. Here's something to think about when thinking about guitars and citterns in the Renaissance period: if one were to swap around the fourth and second courses of a cittern tuned bgd'e', you'd have the top end of standard guitar tuning (reentrant). The arrangement on the cittern makes playing with a plectrum easier. The definitions Pedro gives also point to a difference in right-hand plucking technique (leaving aside use of the plectrum) - one lute-based, the other not. This is not entirely accurate. Rutherfoord's tutor, for example, talks about thumb and index, a technique contested by Bremner, who uses it nonetheless, alongside a three-finger technique. Doc mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: [CITTERN] When was João Miguel Andrade Buil ding
If you know which town he was in, perhaps there might be tax or property records there, or advertisements in the papers. On 22 Oct 2006, at 21:30, ron fernandez wrote: I have tried to find when João Miguel Andrade was building. I have consulted the 400 page work entitled, A Guitarra Portuguesa, 1999 written by Pedro Caldeira Cabral (1999); A Guitarra: bosquejo histórico, by Armando Simões (1974), Instrumentos Musicais Poulares Portugueses, by Ernesto Veiga de Oliveira (2000). These are the major books on this subject. There is no reference to João Miguel Andrade. I am not sure what to do with this lack of information on him. The label gives his name and then says Fabrica e Amazem de Instrumentos de Corda which means Factory and Store of String Instruments. Was he really just a store. The label does not say he was a constructor. Does anyone out there have any other information? Ron Fernández -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern Variations
Martina Rosenberger wrote: So in my opinion there is no need of battling about the theory of the English Guittar responsible for producing the Portuguese Guitar for example. I wonder why you think there is a 'battle' going on! I think the tiny minority of those people interested in the instrument have their own firmly-held theories about it. I suppose Rob has been quite combative about the name 'English' guitar because, right from the beginning (in the 1750s) , the instrument had Scottish connections. Curiously, the only people I have ever heard of who now play the instrument in public are Scottish, American, Japanese and Portuguese. English people don't seem interested in the English guitar at all. I think the modern tuning especially in Portugal shows, that every country has its own musical needs for an instrument. And the Portuguese perhaps happily welcomed the English Guittar because IT WAS ALREADY FAMILIAR, known from a still existing renaissance cittern tradition. I'm sure this is true, but a distinctive new kind of chordally-tuned, fat-bodied cittern appeared in the eighteenth century. And (although this seems to raise hackles) the people a the time, in different parts of Europe, were determined to refer to the instrument as a sort of guitar. So there is a story to be told. It is not a contradiction between theories but an exchange between two root lines. So the seeds of exchange make different flowers given the circumstances. That's natural for human culture, isn't it? Martina -- Yes indeed. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern/cetera/cetra
Thanks, Peter. I've got Winternitz. Why sorry? I know I'm not introducing anything new. Doc mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern questions
-Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 November 2005 20:23 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [CITTERN] Cittern questions 1. Is the cittern an all-key instrument, or is it one of those (like the classic banjo) that is very easy to play in one key, reasonably easy in a couple of more, but awkward in more distant keys? And if so, what keys are handy on the 4-course Italian tuning? Does the French tuning offer advantages or disadvantages, and if so, under what circumstances? I've only ever played a French cittern, John, and it is only of use for a couple of keys, although all the modes within those keys are accessible. For a beginner, the missing frets makes some chords easier to play. 2. I've read about the non-equal-temperament fretting of the cittern. Does this apply to the diatonic variety with themissing frets, or is it used on the chromatically-fretted variant, too? And how diatonic is a diatonic cittern - one key? two keys...? I don't imagine chromatic fretting was strictly equal, but, as I said, I have not played one. Curiously, non-equal temperament instruments were often played in consort with equally-fretted instruments. They obviously weren't too bothered about the tuning problems. 3. Must the cittern be played in a polyphonic style, or is it possible to accompany a song or an instrumental melody using chords, as on the folk guitar? The Scottish repertoire of the mid-17th century was fairly unusual in that it required a fingerstyle technique. The norm was plectrum use, with chords mixed in with single notes. Folk-guitar style works well. Listen to the Baltimore Consort on Dorian Recordings - some good folk-inpired playing there. There are some cittern MP3 files on my website: http://www.musicintime.co.uk/cittern.htm . Rob MacKillop www.musicintime.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: Cittern questions
Dear John: I've done a lot of cittern playing in various contexts and have owned three citterns. Here are some answers and opinions: 1. The smallish common citterns tuned (from the top course) e - d - G - a and e - d - G - b tend to favor sharp keys, the latter Anglo-Italian tuning more so than the former French tuning. I have found the French tuning better for general continuo playing. 2. Some citterns have missing frets, but this has little to do with temperament. A meantone temperament helps quite a bit as far as the instrument being in tune with itself. Virtually all surviving citterns display unequal temperament. Low-tension brass wire is extremely sensitive tuning-wise, so this makes a big difference if you want the ringing overtones that make a cittern's sound special. I would recommend a cittern without any missing frets if that is to be your only cittern. 3. The cittern is essentially a chordal, continuo instrument, with chordal accompaniment being probably its principal purpose. The polyphonic solo repertoire is of course unique and worthwhile, but perhaps not fully representative of the cittern's usage. Some have termed it the rhythm guitar of the renaissance. Cheers, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] om To: cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu cc: 11/30/2005 06:40 Subject: [CITTERN] Cittern questions AM Dear Citternists, I would like to sound out the suitability of the Renaissance cittern for me personally, and I'd like your help. I've always loved ancient musick, but the viol, the sackbut and the recorder are just too out of the way for a fretted-string player of my age to take up. I find classical guitar difficult enough, so I don't fancy the lute, but I imagine that my mandolin, classic 5-string banjo and a bit of Waldzither might give me a good start on the cittern. So I'd like to try and make some sense of what I've read recently on the Internet about the instrument. I've read up on shapes, sizes, tunings, plectra, string technology etc, etc. but I have not yet seen a cittern played nor handled one (Someone suggested restringing a normal mandolin as a training simulator, but this would require the calculation of the correct string gauges, if the result were to feel right). So I have a couple of questions: 1. Is the cittern an all-key instrument, or is it one of those (like the classic banjo) that is very easy to play in one key, reasonably easy in a couple of more, but awkward in more distant keys? And if so, what keys are handy on the 4-course Italian tuning? Does the French tuning offer advantages or disadvantages, and if so, under what circumstances? 2. I've read about the non-equal-temperament fretting of the cittern. Does this apply to the diatonic variety with themissing frets, or is it used on the chromatically-fretted variant, too? And how diatonic is a diatonic cittern - one key? two keys...? 3. Must the cittern be played in a polyphonic style, or is it possible to accompany a song or an instrumental melody using chords, as on the folk guitar? I think the answers to these questions will keep my mind turning over for a while. More questions will probably arise from the answers, but I know where to ask, don't I ? ;-) Thanks in advance, Cheers, John D. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern site art dilemma
Andrew Hartig wrote: I am now faced with the dilemma of how best to divide the works into separate, more manageable galleries/pages. I have made a few experiments, but I am not entirely pleased with any one result. Therefore, I ask the wisdom of those most likely to use such a resource: What is the best way to sort this many works for researching purposes? The best solution I think would be a searchable database allowing the visitor to sort and filter the entries any way he/she needs. That would require some custom scripts though so I'm not sure if that's an option. I'd love to help you there, but unfortunately the only script language I know well enough is one your server isn't very likely to support. 110 entries are still reasonably manageable through static web pages. You'd only need to split the list into two or at most three pages. I believe the dating is the most relevant sort criteria. The uncertain age of some images is a problem of course, but the solution is to just date them as well as possible and accept the fact that the sorting may not be as exact as we'd like it to be. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.tablatvre.com http://www.mandolin-player.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern centre
doc rossi wrote: Hi, I'm in the process of setting up an international non-profit organization for the cittern. Great initiative, Doc! I especially like the fact that you seem to aim to include *both* modern and historical citterns! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.tablatvre.com http://www.mandolin-player.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern music on the BBC
Nancy Carlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: There's an interesting radio show available to listen to on-demand through your computer. The show for August 6th is about Swedish music and half of it is the music of Bellman, including some cittern music, and some discussion about Bellman's house and music. I listen to it on my computer using read audio and here's how to find it. Go to the web site www.bbc.co.uk many thanks for this! Cheers, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern music on the BBC
Did anybody figure out how to get the program for the 6th instead of the 7th? Craig Craig R. Pierpont Another Era Lutherie www.anotherera.com Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nancy Carlin schrieb: There's an interesting radio show available to listen to on-demand through your computer. The show for August 6th is about Swedish music and half of it is the music of Bellman, including some cittern music, and some discussion about Bellman's house and music. I listen to it on my computer using read audio and here's how to find it. Go to the web site www.bbc.co.uk many thanks for this! Cheers, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --
[CITTERN] Re: cittern music on the BBC
Craig Robert Pierpont [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Did anybody figure out how to get the program for the 6th instead of the 7th? yes, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/ and hit the Saturday button :) Cheers, Mathias Nancy Carlin schrieb: There's an interesting radio show available to listen to on-demand through your computer. The show for August 6th is about Swedish music and half of it is the music of Bellman, including some cittern music, and some discussion about Bellman's house and music. I listen to it on my computer using read audio and here's how to find it. Go to the web site www.bbc.co.uk -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[CITTERN] Re: cittern music on the BBC
Thanks. Craig Craig R. Pierpont Another Era Lutherie www.anotherera.com Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig Robert Pierpont schrieb: Did anybody figure out how to get the program for the 6th instead of the 7th? yes, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/ and hit the Saturday button :) Cheers, Mathias Nancy Carlin schrieb: There's an interesting radio show available to listen to on-demand through your computer. The show for August 6th is about Swedish music and half of it is the music of Bellman, including some cittern music, and some discussion about Bellman's house and music. I listen to it on my computer using read audio and here's how to find it. Go to the web site www.bbc.co.uk -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --
