RE: Draft proposal for EU patents protest
-Original Message- Gianugo Rabellino wrote: Noel J. Bergman wrote: Whatever text we adopted will need to be approved, anyhow, but do you want to add anything to the effect that the Apache Software Foundation develops software based upon Open Standards and promotes inter-operability, both of which would be threatened by software patents, and therefore the ASF is taking its position based upon the firm belief that Internet technology must remain open and unencumbered? I sure would like to see such statements but, given the lack of time, I thought that it would have been less questionable and debatable to have a more neutral text. But addition, if possible, would be most welcome. Is this more to your liking? Apache Software Foundation promotes software development based upon Open Standards, and promotes inter-operability. The ASF acts in the belief that Internet technologies must remain open and unencumbered. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:49:41 +0200 Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which should be documented somewhere (or I was too blind to see it). Regards Henning Ditto: (+1) Also, I think [EMAIL PROTECTED] can use the same script, if the moderators of [EMAIL PROTECTED] are now getting many spam mails, coming to this address. (Of course, I mean all the announce(ments)@tlp.apache.org lists) Things should be simpler.:) .. Apache.org is complicated enough. -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. One suggestion, Hennings. Turbine-2.3-RC2 released - Jakarta Turbine-2.3-RC2 released or Apache Turbine-2.3-RC2 released from next announcement. On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 14:00, David Reid wrote: And a very sensible one at that! :) david - Original Message - From: Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Reid wrote: As one of the moderators for announce@apache.org I'd have happily moderated through your announcement... unless something has been changed, only mail originating from an @apache.org address will even reach the announce@apache.org moderation queue. all other sources will get silently dropped. an anti-spam measure. -- #ken P-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- Geschaeftsfuehrer INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Am Schwabachgrund 22 Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] D-91054 Buckenhof Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest
David Reid wrote: This may well be too late for any form of decision, but I propose that for the duration of the 27th August 2003 we change the index page of the main ASF web site to point at a page that states our opposition to the proposal being voted on and our support for the campaign against it. +1 The page is currently at http://cvs.apache.org/~gianugo/apache-protest.html and simply imposes a 60 second delay on viewing the current ASF index page. Make it 2 minutes. Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest
Le Mercredi, 27 aoû 2003, à 00:30 Europe/Zurich, David Reid a écrit : This may well be too late for any form of decision, but I propose that for the duration of the 27th August 2003 we change the index page of the main ASF web site to point at a page that states our opposition to the proposal being voted on and our support for the campaign against it. +1 The page is currently at http://cvs.apache.org/~gianugo/apache-protest.html and simply imposes a 60 second delay... Note that users can click through and do not *have* to wait 60 seconds. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. Same here. Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may well be too late for any form of decision, but I propose that for the duration of the 27th August 2003 we change the index page of the main ASF web site to point at a page that states our opposition to the proposal being voted on and our support for the campaign against it. +1 Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:52:58 -0400 Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This isn't nice. :-( henning, that's a judgement made from too little information. if you were responsible for assessing hundreds of daily messages to that address to see which should be moderated, you would most likely have a different opinion. changing your return address to an @apache.org one long enough to send a message is a lot less strenuous for the community than allowing postings to it from just anywhere and imposing the additional burden on the moderators. who are volunteers, by the way. I think I can understand Henning's feelings as well as Ken's feelings. (I once administrated over 35 mailing lists at the same time. I owned over 10,000 members' community ... ) Ken, if you feel *burdens* for the moderations of XX mailing lists, please feel free to contact me. I think I can deal with 250-500 additional mails per day for now. (Now: 500-700 mails per day) Also, how about using modules for committers to explain such kind of things as these above? and now that this has been discussed on a publicly archived list, it will probably have to made even more stringent, such as requiring the mail be sent from your account on one of the asf machines or something. -1 -- Please use your precious time meaningfully and lead a useful life. -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
Hi, I simply stole^Wborrowed the layout from Martins' Torque announcement. I will put Jakarta Turbine in for the final release. Thanks for the suggestion. Regards Henning On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 02:56, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:49:41 +0200 Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which should be documented somewhere (or I was too blind to see it). Regards Henning Ditto: (+1) Also, I think [EMAIL PROTECTED] can use the same script, if the moderators of [EMAIL PROTECTED] are now getting many spam mails, coming to this address. (Of course, I mean all the announce(ments)@tlp.apache.org lists) Things should be simpler.:) .. Apache.org is complicated enough. -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. One suggestion, Hennings. Turbine-2.3-RC2 released - Jakarta Turbine-2.3-RC2 released or Apache Turbine-2.3-RC2 released from next announcement. On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 14:00, David Reid wrote: And a very sensible one at that! :) david - Original Message - From: Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Reid wrote: As one of the moderators for announce@apache.org I'd have happily moderated through your announcement... unless something has been changed, only mail originating from an @apache.org address will even reach the announce@apache.org moderation queue. all other sources will get silently dropped. an anti-spam measure. -- #ken P-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- Geschaeftsfuehrer INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Am Schwabachgrund 22 Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] D-91054 Buckenhof Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire Dominate!! Dominate!! Eat your young and aggregate! I have grotty silicon! -- AOL CD when played backwards (User Friendly - 200-10-15) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
In any case, I'd like to advise everyone to state your opposition by just writing to your Representative/Member of EU Parliament: see http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep5/owa/ p_meps2.repartition?ilg=ENiorig=home for their mail and postal addresses. And when you do - _please_ use a fax or postal mail (unless you know the MEP - and know that he actually personally reads email). Handwritten is fine too. And _do_ use your own local language. Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EU patents: thanks!
I just wanted to spend a few lines after noticing that the ASF web sites are participating to the EU protest. It was a very nice and somwhow unexpected surprise since I haven't seen any formal decision on that (I'd assume that it took place on members@ or board@). So, thanks to the ASF for being so prompt to support the european open source community, and thanks to all of you for your participation and to the infrastructure team for their work. From today I'm even more proud of being a (small) part of Apache. Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest
Thom May wrote: The page is currently at http://cvs.apache.org/~gianugo/apache-protest.html and simply imposes a 60 second delay on viewing the current ASF index page. The page contains very simple text that is non-inflammatory wordings and fits nicely with the ASF website look and feel. The page was written by Gianugo Rabellino [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 is this just for the 27th, or 27th through 1st? i'm inclined toward the latter.. some suggestions: 1. sixty seconds isn't long enough for all that text to be read and assimilated. i think the interval should be made longer, and there should be some way to reach it in case of 'hey, i wasn't finished!' or 'what did that say again?' or 'hey, that was in english, and i don't read english so good'. 2. change 'open source' to 'open software'. on the one hand, defuse any potential open-source/free-software issues; for another, make it clear to people reading it exactly what this is about. a lot of people use our software without knowing or caring that it's open source, or even what that means. we want to raise their awarenesses, too. 3. it's too late, probably, but multiviewed translated pages would be an outstanding feature. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:50:16 -0400 (Subject: Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org) Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe you're missing the point. the issue is not the volume of email, it's imposing the burden on someone *else*. there are several people who are moderators for that list. adding another moderator won't keep the existing ones from having to wade through all the spam filling their inboxes -- it will just add one more person with the same amount of spam in *its* inbox. 1) Yes, I knew. Why did not you think of take over instead of add?? Anyone can toss the tasks to the others if they feel burdens could be enough not to handle the problems properly, as long as they will prepare the documentations (or something) for the successors of their tasks. (This is just my opinion, though) There would be freedom of resignation as well as participation. (In other words, I completely agree with your point of view if there's no freedom of resignation) I am willing to take over. 2) I think it can be one of the functional enhancement requests for the ezmlm development team. What about: 1. List Owner who get *all* mails for moderation 2. Moderators who receive 1/(number_of_moderators) mails for moderation (not *all* the mails) This is one of the proper functional enhancements and i think it works well. Also, http://www.fml.org/ gives you many hints and insights on what is mailing list and should be. Also, how about using modules for committers to explain such kind of things as these above? please explain. committers module can be used to store these kinds of information, I think. (See 'committers' module, instead of announce@apache.org: Must be sent from an @apache.org address. in bounced mail) i don't think it's really subject to vote here. if anywhere, it would be the moderators and the infrastructure people. and my point is that now this is a publicly known algorithm, spammers may spoof mail as coming from @apache.org in order to get into the moderation queue. I think there would be much nicer approaching method to solve the problem, but I am afraid there could be *security* concerns. I'll talk about this at other mailing lists (non-open ML). - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Support the EU patent protest
Dirk-Willem van Gulik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sure - _if_ patent offices in europe are as bad/careless as in the US and _if_ cost recovery is made harder and _if_ the originality clase is swept under the table and _if_ the courts turn the table so that proving prior art suddenly becomes expensive in the EU.. then it may have an adverse effect on open source.. But then again - that is a lot of 'if's. And one can even see ways for Open Source to protect itself using EU patents linked to its own prior art at very low cost - and using that outside the EU to protect itself. Lets save these loud ASF statement/actions things for issues which _directly_ affect the ASF work. Guess it's a moot point, because we're doing it, but I think it's good to be proactive in this case. This puts free software in a stronger bargaining position - maybe they will pass the law the same, but hopefully they will keep us in mind when setting things up. Better to start making noise now rather than when some future SCO-like company tries to make a quick buck off of us. -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
At 12:44 PM 8/26/2003, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. I will say that I'm pleased the members were able to turn the ship so quickly to support the initiative, it shows exactly how far from lethargy our community is, even near the end of summer. I should point out though that ASF support of the protest is a bit odd. We are a US Delaware charitable corporation bound by (primarily) US law and patents (and US patent treaty obligations.) When the topic of US patent reform comes up (the insanity that has led to issues such as the .gif file format, SCO v.s. the world, etc) that we most carefully consider a position and reflect that in our activites. There are very stringent lobbing restrictions on the charitable corporation, but that does not mean we cannot have any positions (consider the various cancer foundations' support of anti-smoking efforts.) One thing I do not want from the foundation is a double standard applied to our positions on US v.s. Euro patents. Bill - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, David Reid wrote: Bill, are you seriously saying that laws in the EU will not have any impact on the way the ASF carries on it's affairs? It saddens me as I thought we'd moved away from this sort of small minded view of the world :( No, it means that, at least as far as the IRS is concerned, this is potentially an issue, as 501c3 charitable organizations are not supposed to be politically active. The intent is to prevent people from being able to make political donations to support a candidate's election and write off those donations, as one example. However, there are plenty of advocacy organizations whose 501c3 status is not a question: the EFF, for example. So long as any advocacy we do is around issues and not elections or votes or specific politicians, we're good. Brian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Support the EU patent protest
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Though I personally support the patent protest; and have been heavily donating bits, bandwidth,bytes and storage to the cause as a private citizen; I am not too eager to see the ASF jump into the political arena. FWIW, I checked around. None of: www.gnu.org / www.fsf.org www.redhat.com www.kernel.org www.osdl.org www.opensource.org/ www.sourceforge.net www.osdir.com www.lwn.net etc. I did not find a single site running information about the patent protest, although according to ZDNet UK (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39115913,00.htm) more than 600 sites were planning to do so. And from that I discovered that www.kde.org was protesting. Gnome.org is protesting too. Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
