Re: 'Devoxx' Apache dinner ?
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Isabel Drost isa...@apache.org wrote: On 07.11.2010 Matthias Wessendorf wrote: Since I arrive late on Thursday (and my talk is Friday morning), I proposed Friday evening :-) I arrived a little while ago will leave on Saturday. Happy to join for dinner or lunch at any time during this week. Ditto here. There's an 'open source' dinner Wednesday night, apparently. http://twitter.com/#!/search/devoxx%20open%20source%20dinner http://twitter.com/#!/analytically/status/3779743597985792 I can't be there, but the Zuiderterras is a nice location indeed. Steven. -- Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/ Open Source Content Applications Makers of Kauri, Daisy CMS and Lily
Re: 'Devoxx' Apache dinner ?
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Matthias Wessendorf mat...@apache.orgwrote: Hi folks, on twitter Isabel brought up the idea to have 'apache dinner/meetup' ([1]). Are folks interested in getting beer/juice/food on Friday night, in Antwerp? Since I arrive late on Thursday (and my talk is Friday morning), I proposed Friday evening :-) Since I'm in the steering committee this year, cheerleading the NoSQL/Cloud/Devops-track, I'll probably be thoroughly knackered by Friday night (and will prefer to see my kids after a week). What I would propose is to meet up Friday noon, after the talks. We could have lunch together around 1PMish - would that be OK? Knowing Devoxx from previous editions, the conference quickly dies down on Friday noon. See you in Antwerp, Steven. -- Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/ Open Source Content Applications Makers of Kauri, Daisy CMS and Lily
Re: Wikis for Geeks: anyone have a wiki that supports CVS/SVN for users?
On 26 Apr 2005, at 20:13, Greg Stein wrote: Nah. I have yet to see a wiki do any checks on input. They're just very lenient on output. Not responding to the subject of this mail, but to your remark: Daisy (cocoondev.org/daisy) does a fair amount of cleanup html validation upon input. It offers HTML editing rather than Wiki syntax editing though. Generally stating though, the Wiki which ships with Daisy is much more a CMS app than a Wiki, even though it doubles quite nicely as a Wiki-on-steroids. Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open source Java CMS?
On 10 Apr 2005, at 19:45, David N. Welton wrote: A friend of mine was asking after a Java system to integrate into what he's already got set up (Tomcat) that performs content management. We are building Daisy: http://cocoondev.org/daisy/ The Wiki front-end does slightly more than pure content management, but the standalone repository server should be useful in its own right, and offers an HTTP/XML and Java API. HTH, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] How to prevent abusing Apache priviliges
On 15 Oct 2004, at 02:11, thorsten wrote: what if incubating mentors would abuse their powers to interfer with the normal evolution of Apache incubation projects. Hm. That's quite some statement to make. Any fact to back that up? Of course, this could and should not happen - ever. But seriously: how would such power lay in the hands of mentors? Isn't someone supposed to disregard such pushy politics, whatever their origin is? But first and foremost, I'd like to know if and where this has been happening - because you seem to suggest so. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Source, Cold Shoulder (fwd)
On 09 Oct 2004, at 10:00, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I'm really not very impressed with the article. case in point? What I mean by that is, look at us, read our style in replying. We like to be slick and sharp, and sometimes email is a form of word-based chess playing made with quotes and (smart) elisions. Definitely. Look at the outside world. Both my wife and I are, for diverse reasons, constantly in touch with other people - for our job and other purposes. Most of the time however, I'll do that from behind my laptop. She ends up being on the phone - a lot - primarily for professional conversations. She doesn't like email for anything but short, functional notes - and I doubt she would ever enjoy extracting or putting information into mailing list threads. Also, when I use the phone for anything but functional purposes (I'm late or I'm lost), that's mostly when I'm doing something else, like driving the car, cooking, having a cigaret break. When she rings someone up, the telephone conversation will get her full attention. I think that the few women in CS and OSS somehow gave up and adjusted to our way of communication - which is a pity. OTOH, it's fairly heard to scale IRL or phone-based communication the way email can scale. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Style of community building
On 29 Sep 2004, at 00:38, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: the Lenya people went thru hell and back with the incubator, also accepting policies that were continously changing, demonstrating lots of patience and will to collaborate, they hang on, even when it was frustrating and *I* was pissed at the incubator PMC for not saying the same thing the same week. They had big customers, they risked their assets in the event of a 'death sentence' (a real one) and they made several big mistakes that forced the mentors to get in and say look, one other thing like this and you are out. They learned, they stimulated a community, which is now diverse, friendly and healthy from all possible senses and even ego attachments to some of the architectural issues were diluted in the process and there is no more sign of that. Result, a long time after that, they graduated. They *earned it*. The hard way, now they are trusted peers. To put things in perspective: I was one of the folks giving them hard times at regular occasions. I also became a de-facto Mentor during their Incubation process. I'm a member of their TLP PMC now - upon their own request. And in terms of bias, my company happens to be releasing a somehow competing open source CMS framework in the next few weeks. So what we have now is a bunch of people who are willing to collaborate, even if personal or business interests differ, for the good of the community. Yes, we had times where people grew increasingly weary over all the fuzz ASF was requiring from them. But we choose to leave these times behind and look into the future instead. Lenya will probably have outlived the longest incubation process ever, and I think everyone learned from it. Looking at your replies, I still have difficulties to understand your real intentions and real feelings towards the ASF processes and participants. I see a great care about your technology, of which I'm a happy user, which however somehow is dwarfed by your nits about ASF community practices and people - yet you seem to be very eager to provide Metro with the ASF brand. However, please don't forget that the foundation is growing at ever accelerating rates, with 1K of committers so far, close to 200 separate source repositories, close to 30 TLPs - yet you encounter the same policy-suggesting people everywhere. That means patience of people can grow thin quickly if they need to make exceptions for new projects with new policies - which unfortunately is the result of our current size. It is not in the interest of the foundation to provide said brand to a project which doesn't like to fit in somehow, which doesn't respect what we have achieved so far, and which doesn't respect its (inter-)project peers and senior participants of Apache, and feels cornered at the same time, _even_ if that project has a compelling technical vision. I'm not saying you or other Metro folks have intentions to follow or stay on a collision course any longer, I'm just trying to point you out what the logical consequences are when someone wants to join a group. One should give and take with consideration and balance. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Style of community building
On 29 Sep 2004, at 12:19, Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Wednesday 29 September 2004 17:55, Steven Noels wrote: snip content=good material / One should give and take with consideration and balance. Noted and Agreed. AND respectfully wished this would be true in all directions. I'm confident that people still have positive energy left for a productive and future-looking debate resolution of this matter. I'm also confident that suggesting this is _not_ the case isn't helping you nor us. Speak freely without doublespeak and anyone gets to be heard. Heck, the changed tone of this thread even convinced myself that I still had some patience to look for a resolution. If you shout loud enough, noone will hear you. *grin* Please keep in mind that going silent now will require your peers to speak up or else people will move along - nothing here (anymore). /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Style of community building
2. The described 'worst-case' scenario, makes me not inclined to take Merlin away from the ASF. Are you hinting at the bank story? Hm. Quite frankly, I think people are being oversold on the size of the Merlin community ATM, and individual cases are being extrapolated into broad tendencies. We use Merlin in a project of ours, BTW. The code and vision are good. If the license terms stay the same, we wouldn't care too much about whether Merlin is an Apache project or not. I must honestly say I've been personally considering to offer you guys a Subversion repository if you really don't want to go to Sourceforge. from that follows a set of options, a. A TLP. b. The Incubator. c. Another project/federation. a. is what we have opted for as the most preferred scenario from our perspective. For better or for worse, creating TLPs to fulfill personal desires isn't the business of the ASF. I see the Metro TLP request as a way to steer around the actual problems, and I also see the value of being part of the Apache family being less appreciated than it should. Whether you like this or not, the foundation isn't only about simple implementation or interpretation of rules - it's primarily about people. If people start evaluating rules as to check whether there's a way to still settle their own private agendas, something rotten is going on. b. is in the group considered a death sentence. Be that an overstatement, some users are indicating it to be a signal of the negative kind. Being a member of the Incubator PMC, this obviously hits some nerves with me. Any ASF project, at any time, should have no issues at all with passing the simple criteria that were established in order to be able to enter the foundation. Saying incubation would mean a death sentence for Metro means you already know about severe issues with these criteria. Or you suspect that we are biased in judging Metro along these criteria. If that would be the case, I'm really sure that everyone on the Incubation PMC is mature enough to abstain if he feels too biased. c. we are unable to see that the technology fits naturally within any other project, but I am all ears if there is an opinion towards this. An confrontational but well-wishing advise from me would be to take Metro out of Apache for 6 to 12 months, and re-approach Apache as a fresh project with no murky past after that. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Policy (Was: Playboy mirror logo?)
On 26 Aug 2004, at 15:18, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: I completely agree with Vadim. if you don't like to download stuff from playboy.com don't. How hard is that? IIUC, the technical issue people are referring to is that the download page (and the dropdown list of servers to download from) won't appear at all because the string playboy features in it. Does this happen? Well: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/archives/000513.html (10/2002) (I do wonder if they are able to read this discussion, BTW). So, *if* we find this to be a valid concern, we might ask PB to provide another hostname for it. I do hope however no other mirror has a hostname featuring strings like private, or hustler, or penthouse or any other so-called dubious name in it (in which I have elaborated about my known list of adult magazines, I assume I haven't read them all), and many other words which such censoring software might recognize as NSFW. All in all, this thread is becoming highly amusing. :-) BTW, I'm still +1 on keeping the cluestick in our hands, and leave the situation like Erik installed it. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Policy (Was: Playboy mirror logo?)
On 25 Aug 2004, at 15:53, Sam Ruby wrote: The closest thing I see to that in your email is a suggestion that we let the Eclipse Foundation be the final arbiter in who the Apache Software Foundation will allow to be listed as an official mirror. ... or that the opinions of those who don't run their own businesses should be evaluated differently from those of business owners. Beats me. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ApacheCon Europe???
On 04 May 2004, at 19:15, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Anything going on in this direction already? Volunteers? People with contacts to possible sponsors? What about joinging http://lots.ch next year? If you don't spend attention to the Cocoon weenies and talks, and just want to join for evening and community fun, there will be the Cocoon GetTogether on October 11/12th 2004 in Ghent, Belgium. Last year we had 125 people showing up, with 2/3 of them being non-Belgian. We'll have one Cocoon-specific day of talks, and one hackathon day where anyone can do fun stuff should they feel inclined to. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Farewell to Martin Pöschl
On 12 Feb 2004, at 23:50, robert burrell donkin wrote: i was planning to leave the jakarta one up (generally once created, jakarta pages stay up but sometimes are no longer linked to). does the ASF plan to take the page down after a period or is the plan that will it remain up for the forseeable future? (jakarta pages tend to get widely read and their urls disseminated so i'd prefer to link to a more-or-less permanent url.) I figured Martin could/should be included in the foundation pages since he's a member so part of the legal fabric our community builds upon. When the news goes away from the main homepage, I'll move the link text to http://www.apache.org/foundation/news.html or http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html I would link from the Jakarta news section to the foundation page, to make it a tiny bit more formal (in terms of expressing our appreciation). I'm not planning to tear down http://www.apache.org/foundation/martin.html in the future, and there's no policy for purging unlinked content so that URI should be a permanent resource, yes. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: automatic nagging for board reports?
On 05 Feb 2004, at 04:25, Greg Stein wrote: (and yah, I see that Leo has given up for now, but figured I'd add my thoughts on this; and yah, it bugs me to no end to have to nag) Well, nagging can be as simple as checking in the draft board agenda - yesterday's CVS check-in at the very least triggered me to starting hunting for report items. :) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 11, 2004, at 3:16 AM, Ted Leung wrote: I've created a directory 'planet' in the committers CVS. It just contains the planet config file at the moment. In preparation for Tom's hosting coming on line, committers can add their entries by following my example. Done. For those who want to set up categorized RSS feeds using MovableType, have a look at http://www.hutteman.com/weblog/2003/03/07-49.html Ideally this wants to generated from some centralized record, but I'm willing to refactor the process as we go. I'll make a real announcement to committers@ once we get the hosting squared away. Let me know if I can help. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 8:01 PM, Brian McCallister wrote: On Jan 8, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Ted Leung wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 Next someone will insist that this has to go through the incubator. It will be easier to just do it at planetapache.org and offer to aggregate people's blogs. Apache is made up of individuals, after all. If there is a strong community around it, we can incubate it and ask for TLP status then ;-) I'm game. I was planning to do the same for the blogs hosted on http://blogs.cocoondev.org/, BTW. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Private mail lists [was: Inappropriate use of announce@]
Santiago Gala wrote: When I said: Just tell them. I think they are all PMC Chairs are subscribed to board, so it should be easy to tell them there to Sideway comment from my little peanut gallery: this is (only) the second time I overheard that PMC chairs can subscribe to board@ - in three years of (increasingly intensive) reading of non-project-specific ASF mail lists. Whether this is a 'can', a 'should', or a 'you are required to' is one of these hidden nuggets of information I would like to see novice chairs to be informed of in some explicit way. About the rest of your mail: I totally agree that private lists can shield valuable, not-so-private information (especially about decision making processes) away from the people for which this information is part of their community experience. Since Cocoon has been moving into a TLP, and has its own PMC list, we have seen some traffic on that list, at times even too much traffic. The nice thing is that, most of the times, one of the private list members jumps up and says I'm gonna move this to dev or users. Still, due to the fact we @ Cocoon concluded all committers (should) care about the Cocoon community and the legal status of its codebase, so we have a policy where all committers can join the PMC list, and now our PMC list sometimes is just a hanging-out place for committers only. And yes, even though it _might_ produce unwanted side-effects (non-committer developers feeling shut out), it appears as if the subcribers of the PMC list actually like this hanging-out place to exist. We sometimes happen to discuss the proposal of new committers on the PMC list (but not often), to give an example, or whether we are going to send a mail to someone who is on the verge of infringing Cocoon's brand. Fortunately however, no technical nor strategic vision stuff has been emerging from the PMC list so far - all discussions about Cocoon's design and future are routinely done on the dev list. Apart from security stuff (for obvious reasons) and brand conflict issues (where public discussion might affect third parties negatively), I see the Cocoon PMC list (as it is ATM) as some way to channel friendly inter-person chat into a group thing, similar to the difference between IM and IRC - a way to have more people sharing the fun. One might debate that this fun should spread into the open lists as well, but apparently people are aware of their audience when speaking up, and sometimes prefer a cozy little list of 40 subscribers, rather than a massive forum of 500 dev-list participants. Stage freight, I assume. Personally, I think a private list should exerce some kind of self-control to keep its existence worthwhile. It's pretty hard to ban all kinds of direct inter-person communication from a community (nor is this what you are aiming at, of course), but a closed list might move some of the inter-person banter into a channel where more people can make sense of it. Just some thoughts... Cheers, Santiago! /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Parliament Approves Software Patents
Erik Abele wrote: arghhh, without comments: 'EU Parliament Approves Software Patents' http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/09/24/ 1253227.shtml?tid=155tid=185tid=99 Don't panic: - o - Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:31:21 +0200 From: Philippe Aigrain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Freesw] Vote in Parliament on software patentability The detailed votes (with nominal votes) are - in MSWord format ... - at: http://www.europarl.eu.int/direct/documents/fr/vote/Resultats/Mercredi/Appels nominaux 2003-09-24.doc Contrarily to what you may hear or read from Reuters, this is truly a victory against extension of patentability. Amendements have been voted that completely overturn the original meaning of the directive to make it a text that excludes from patentability any thing beyond the use fo forces of nature to control physical effects and exclude explicitly any form of information processing. In addition an amendment explicitly stating than software claims can not be accepted has been voted.For specialists 69-70-71-72 and first part of 55 + interoperability exception have gone through. I guess that the Green and GUE have voted against the global report because they are afraid that this might be manipulated in the further political and implementation proces (in particular they wanted another version of the definition of technical - amendment 55 second half instead of 6 to go through, but it was not even submitted to vote, based on erroneous statement that 69 would be equivalent). I do not know teh outcome on one important amendment (57). This is nonetheless a historical turning point: for the first time, a cross-party coalition has said no to the permanent extension of patents and other forms of restrictions to free and open knowledge. Already in 1995 the Parliament rejected a first version of the biotech patents directive, but this was a different coalition, much less clear, and shortlived. TO measure the importance, see the detailed vote on amendment 55 first half voted 300 to 223 with the PSE divided 2/3-1/3 and the PPE divided 1/3-2/3 The news releases announce the vote as a victory for patentability (see Reuters). Let's hope that the truth will reach even the news. Now let's get ready for the fights in Council. The voted amendments are clearly unacceptable for those countries where the patent lobbies have key influence, as well as for the Commission, so they will do anything to get rid of them. Philippe Aigrain www.sopinspace.com/~aigrain/en/ - o - ... so it seems we should be careful in judging what happened. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. Ditto here: Apache standing up against SW patents might show the industry they can't play nice with open source over here, while paying the lobbyists to defend patents with the gouvernment (which is what happens here in Brussels, EU 'capital'). /Steven - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Draft proposal for EU patents protest
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Sander Striker wrote: From: Sander Striker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:55 PM Hmmm. I was more thinking all or nothing. If the board approves, swap the main httpd.conf for a config that will serve only this page. We swap configs again when the protest is over (a day?). Then again, although a stronger statement, maybe not. Our users deserve to be served as usual. While I agree that we should care about our users, in the long run, making a sign against software patents might be the ultimate gift to them. Besides, there's plenty of mirrors around that still carry the distributions. All ASF sites out for one day sure might attract some eyeballs. But yes, it should be up to the board the respective PMCs to make that judgement call. /Steven - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd: Returned post for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Anyway, I think it will be important to make it easier for us to find who are moderating XX mailing lists in the near future. You can also politely poll [EMAIL PROTECTED] /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newsletter.
Joshua Slive wrote: A couple suggestions: - Perhaps a monthly newsletter is asking a little too much. Many projects don't have much going on in a month. Quarterly might get more results. Empathic +1 on quarterly. I'm scared to death already for next month's nagging. ;-) - I'd tone down the nagging of projects that don't contribute. Just point at their website and let it be. I don't think the newsletter should be a Table of Contents for all projects, but only the projects that have news for the outside world. So I would just leave them out until another edition. On the terra-intl connection, I wouldn't mind if Tetsuya puts a link in his signature. For the first edition however, it felt kinda right that the editor presents himself, especially since it broadens our POV a bit towards the Aziatic users of our products. Other than that, even though it was a long read (which meant I learned quite a bit about neighbour projects), a warm round of applause for this initiative. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: archives?
On 3/07/2003 22:16 Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: I was actually looking for committer #s. Can someone provide that? (I don't think I have access to the data.) A breakdown per project would be useful but at least a total # of committers .. The way the avail file is structured, automatically extracting # of committers is a bit hacky. Here's the raw output of my script, which accumulates committers across cvs modules per TLP, in the assumption most of them follow the tlp-sublevelproject naming scheme (like 'xml-xerces', 'cocoon-lenya', etc). I dropped some of the non-relevant ones. First column is name, second number of people with commit access, last # of members. Ready for cope/paste into Excel. ;-) - Amount of committers: 677 Amount of members: 111 Name,all,members ant,34,8 apr,42,32 avalon,80,15 cocoon,60,14 commons,10,10 db,35,9 embperl,13,6 httpd,145,111 incubator,26,12 jakarta,314,35 james,13,3 java,7,1 maven,25,4 mod_dtcl,9,4 modperl,18,7 tcl,9,4 ws,86,11 xml,259,28 - Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How ASF membership works and what it means
On 22/06/2003 3:43 Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: I personally believe in keeping the bar low for committership and keeping the bar high for membership. I believe that this helps us getting more people inside the foundation (potential members) but keeps the real powers of the foundation heavily filtered and therefore highly focused on what it means to be a member. Stefano's insightful post got me carried away to run some stats on members projects: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/archives/001008.html Please comment if you care, but keep the thread on community (or cocoon-dev). I'd love to hear your opinion. Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How ASF membership works and what it means
On 23/06/2003 15:42 Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: This as it mostly shows 'today' rather than the members body which grew over time and is effectively lagging. I.e. you are looking at data which tells you more about history than about the future. And that todays future is tomorrows history. My original plan was to fetch some old copies of the avail file as well and look for trends, but alas: cvs server: failed to create lock directory for `/home/cvs/CVSROOT' (/home/cvs/CVSROOT/#cvs.lock): Permission denied Oh well, forgot about that. :-) I depend on (only) the members having access to the foundation module, but I assume that's a safe guess. The latest additions already seem to be added. Also, I assume repository is structured along the toplevel-sublevel module naming scheme - which seems the case for most. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How ASF membership works and what it means
On 23/06/2003 21:30 Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Dirk is right pointing out how a specific frame in time tells you the 'position' but not the 'speed'. Luckily, social dynamics don't exhibit the Heinsenberg principle. To amuse the easily bored, here's 2002, 2001 and 2000: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/archives/001009.html Looking at the 'skew', I'm starting to wonder whether this is 'by design' or not, and whether proactive cross-TLP-balancing of entry criteria would not be beneficial to keep the Foundation's innards consistent with the reality outside. BTW: does anyone know some good Python charting library for this kind of charts? I've looked at PIL but it seems pretty low-level. Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: author tags
On 10/06/2003 1:45 Greg Stein wrote:
On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 06:06:54PM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I don't know whether this was a symptom, a remedy, or a cause. Isn't the
fact these tags needed to be removed some telltale? I'm just wondering,
since you seem to advocate this as a good community pattern.
I fully admit that I suggested it after seeing what was going on in Avalon,
In Avalon, it was a remedy (IMO). In general, I believe it is a very good
thing to omit them.
In the particular case of Avalon, it indeed was an appropriate action.
I've seen this more times than I care to count, over the years. It is an
especially bad thing at the ASF, where even a little of that isn't right.
Consider: the ASF is all about creating a community around a codebase so
that the code can survive the departure of any/all developers. If that is
the case, then why are their names in there? The code should be owned and
maintained indefinitely by the ASF and the community that has been
established as the caretakers of that code.
[snip]
Look at CVS. That'll tell you. But even better, pose the question on the
community's dev list.
So, yah... I haven't seen any real good reasons for author tags yet. Nor
have I over my years over professional development. And when you're talking
about a codebase that is intended to last for *decades* at the ASF, then I
*really* don't see the purpose of author tags or other types of in-code
credits.
I currently see a number of patterns wrt. @author tags:
1) as a way to credit non-committer code contributions
I think adding author tags for non-committer contributions builds up
some sort of 'merit/credit points' system so that there's some
measurable way of finding out when somebody is elligible for becoming a
committer, based on track record. People also like it when their patches
are marked with their authorship, since as a non-committer you are not
listed on the whoweare pages. So I'd still be +0.5 on retaining such
author tags. Over at Cocoon, we also typically add author attributes to
user-submitted documentation, for the same reason. One might say we
should use the commit message to credit such contributions, but these
are less obvious to find out IMHO.
2) as an ongoing logbook for tracking who was involved with a particular
piece of code. Like it or not, but sometimes it is easier to contact the
dev-list notifying a particular guy his piece of code has gone awry,
without having to look to CVSWeb or the like. Especially in the case
where code patches originate from non-committers, who might not track
the cvs commit messages or be deeply involved in the day-to-day life of
a project.
Ideally, when someone becomes committer, his past and continued code
contributions might be considered to be owned by the community-at-large,
and author tags should be reflecting this. Then again, I believe some
IDEs insert such tags automatically when someone touches a file.
I know people sometimes have troubles in finding out whether where
they should add/change author tags to existing code when they fix, patch
or enhance. Maybe eradicating them might help.
Maybe the author tag should read @author The Apache {$projectname}
Developer Team, and add other tags for non-committer contributions, if any.
/Steven
--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
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Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On 10/06/2003 14:05 Jeff Turner wrote: Yes, and isn't it fun. [snip] LOL You should check TortoiseCVS ;-) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On 9/06/2003 17:08 Noel J. Bergman wrote: FWIW, James, Avalon and other projects recently decided to remove the @author tags from the source files. There was some disagreement in the Avalon list, there was none on the James list. We do try to give people recognition in the CVS commit logs, change summaries, and the We Are page. I don't know whether this was a symptom, a remedy, or a cause. Isn't the fact these tags needed to be removed some telltale? I'm just wondering, since you seem to advocate this as a good community pattern. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Wiki defaced
On 7/06/2003 18:40 Santiago Gala wrote: One nice thing about wikis is that they use to be self-healing. For instance, someone (Marc?) corrected my mispelling of Marc Portier's name in my wiki here. I noticed like one week later. Thanks. It was me. ;-D /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Wiki defaced
On 7/06/2003 23:43 Noel J. Bergman wrote: The discussion of what to do about it is over on infrastructure. I'm fairly sure from prior discussions that you are subscribed there, but just in case ... Yep, saw that. Thanks! /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Wiki defaced
On 7/06/2003 11:41 Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: But I am *COMPLETELY* *DISGUSTED* by what I in the page changes. It's the most revolting pic I've EVER seen! The Cocoon Wiki has been the victim of exactly the same disgusting defacement, approximately at the same moment I guess. *sigh* /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NL Unix User Group conference next Thursday
Hi party-goers (and people who did not already knew about this list), I'll be in Ede (The Netherlands) on May 22nd to speak about Cocoon and stuff, during the spring conference of the NLUUG (http://www.nluug.nl/events/vj03/). Dirk-Willem van Gullik will be there in the morning, too, but only for a short while. Depending on other Apachians showing up, I might postpone my drive back to Belgium until the day thereafter, so if anyone wants to meet greet, or was already planning to attend this conference, I'd be happy to hear from you. Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun and the JCP 2.5
On 3/04/2003 1:24 Roy T. Fielding wrote: Does anyone know why JBoss isn't being granted the scholarship? I read the Happiness is here today JCP 2.5 announcement (http://java.sun.com/features/2002/10/new_jcp.html) again and it says qualified achedemic, non-profit and opensource members. I am not sure about the announcement text, but I know that the agreement was for nonprofit or academic organizations, or for individuals working on behalf of a nonprofit. JBOSS is none of the above. http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/announce/LetterofIntent.html Thanks for clarifying this. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Free java profiler tools for open source projects?
Hi, I remember a thread on 'some' ASF list about the availability of a number of commercial tools for free, when used within open source projects, just like the Atlassian guys currently do with Jira. I can't find that thread anymore, so I was hoping somebody else still remembers. More specifically, I was hoping one of the Java profiler tool vendors like Borland is doing something similar with OptimizeIT. Anyone who remembers that thread, or knows about some freebie Java profiling tool for ASF projects? Thanks, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [off-topic-just for fun] - Maps and zoom-in
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Now I've noticed quite a few folks falling off the shore, and into a nearby rivers and canals. Which unless you are living on a boad - is propably not quite correct. So I'd love to know if that is projection issue; or a true issue with the location you entered. I zoomed in upto 100ft resolution, and from the looks of it, it seems like I'm standing in my garden instead of in my front door. Given the fact that the distance between door and garden is only 25 meters, it seems like the projection is 'quite' accurate ;-D /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How get on the map!
Santiago Gala wrote: I would like feedback about committing some of these changes or sending patches for further processing. You might check http://www.skep.tk/newsquakes/ for some other 'hovering labels on an imagemap' example. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASF Colocation proposal
Lars Eilebrecht wrote: According to O'brien, Tim: I don't know if anyone is interested in selling swag, but I found this: http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=freebsdgear It is fairly easy to setup, and I believe one can customize the interface. Well, the ASF is already an affiliate of Jinx Hackwear. http://www.jinxhackwear.com/scripts/products.asp?affID=16 Also, I set up a shop with Cafeshops once, and found the quality of the t-shirts to be suboptimal. Are these Jinx shirts screen-printed, or iron-on stuff? /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You can at.....
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Steven Noels wrote: Related to that: _who_ is able to request access for invited parties? AFAIK Anyone on this list. Or at least that was the consensus after 150Mbyte or more of dicussion on open and closedness :-) I just saw Stefano's vote round up: every committer. Which means Tim won't be able to propose his own friends. Anyway, sorry for the noise. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: ASF Colocation proposal
Roy T. Fielding wrote: In any case, being a charity is only justified if individuals are contributing money. Right now, they aren't. Would that be as simple as opening up some PayPall account? I'm sure some of use would be happy to contribute something. With the current intention of getting our own colo, it might be a good time for some individual fundraising. I'd be happy to contribute, given some means to do so using credit card or wire transfer. (moving this to community@) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] weblog package on apache.org
Henri Gomez wrote: Let's (re)start the poll here since it's the commiters list was innapropriate ;( Sure thing ;) Subject: weblog package on apache.org The goal of this poll is to get commiters feedback on having a weblog package on apache.org. The basic idea is to provide ASF commiters a tool which could be used to expose their 'ASF related' works, ideas, notes using a common ASF LookFeel. Questions : - Did there is a need for a weblog package installed at apache.org where commiters could put notes about THEIR ASF related works ? Committers? Not tied to a specific project? Nope (in terms of -1) Is there a need for blogsoft for project teams posting notes of their progress? Maybe. Should posting be restricted to PMC members? Nope, the usual 'oversight' should suffice as it is with code commits. - Should we select a Java based solution (the request came from jakarta-general initially), or anything else ? Let's start with Q1 and see where we get. - Which packages/products are good candidates, having licence without apache members/commiters contestations ? Ditto. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where are we?
Ben Hyde wrote: I wonder if we could do something fun. I think it would be fun to have a map that shows where the various people in the community are located on the planet. enthusiast +1 My fuzzy idea is that members of the community would put ICBM tags[1] on some web page of their. That can drive the map building. Use the author tag to grab their names. They then put some other kind of tag on a page, like meta name=ASF-KIND content=committer They then poke something we keep back at central command so we can accumulate the list. If we use committers repository for that we can easily authenticate people. View source of http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/: meta name=author content=Steven Noels/ meta name=ICBM content=51.0749, 3.7473 / meta name=DC.title content=Outer Web Thought Log / meta name=ASF.role content=committer / meta name=ASF.id content=stevenn / If we keep it simple to start we can obviously do assorted richer things later, but if all we try to do up front is get a map of the committers that would be sufficiently neat. wdyt? Fun indeed! /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where are we?
Ben Hyde wrote: % cvs -d cvs.apache.org:/home/cvs co committers % echo 'http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/' committers/urls.txt % cvs ci -m 'Add Ben' committers/urls.txt done, I added my account ID so that maybe Sam Jim can pick up that file and use it for their committer/member overview, too That's about as low on the food chain as we can go 'knowledge representation' wise. Should we climb higher, and if so ... why? nope, KISS Anybody know how to make a map? not yet - but it is fun thing to ponder with :) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sponsoring of asf: fud or truth?
Hi all, in the light of: - http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/ (The whole Apache project is impressive in the spirit of the pre-bubble open-source projects, but Apache's heavy dependence on BigCo funding (IBM, Sun, etc.) kind of disqualifies them and spoils the romance.) Sam's rebutal (sort of): - http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/1163.html and then: - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/acknowledgements.html - http://xml.apache.org/ack.html - http://perl.apache.org/about/contributors/companies.html - http://www.php.net/thanks.php being mostly about infrastructural or committer sponsoring, I was wondering what might be true (or FUD) about this BigCo funding. Or even worse: are accounting records available? Of course, one might wonder whether such details should be made available to non-members. OTOH, I don't like seeing such statements when you know, from the inside, than Sun nor IBM have 'bought out' ASF. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: CLOSED: Closing the infrastructure list ( was RE: infrastructure@ missing from eyebrowse )
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: He cannot take it up on community@ -- that list is closed as well. He's not a committer. My memory can be very bad, but I believe we said community@ could also be 'by invitation'. Given Tim's pertinent remarks and apparent genuine interest in our operations, we could allow him on the community list. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: Fw: You can at least forward my comments to these secret discussions about wiki
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: O'brien, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: You can at least forward my comments to these secret discussions about wiki ( Note: I'm only writing you two only because Greg, you are the Chairman of the Board, and Andrew, you've been a proponent of Wiki. Since I only know about a discussion secondhand, I can only imagine what is being discussed, here's my take. Also, Mr. Stein, just in case you are fuming mad at me, don't let my comments color your view of Mr. Oliver - I've never met him. ) As I already said, while I don't know what is happening on members@ either, why don't we give Tim access to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (aco, please fw to members?) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [announce] Agora 1.1
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: The tool includes enough documentation to get you started and use the tool yourself, including some pregenerated dataclouds to play with the visualizer. I've just used the applet version, looking great! One question: how about adding a zoom function? /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: fyi wiki statistics
Giacomo Pati wrote: We use JSPWiki in our company together with the Hula server (can't remember the URL but Google will know it) which checks a Wikipage (NotificationList in our case) that users can put their address and notification time into it and get a mail with the diffs of the last 24 hours (if there are any). That's IMO the Wiki way of notification for interested users. http://www.ecyrd.com/JSPWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Hula (running off now to get this up ;-) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: ApacheWiki RSS feed moved into apachewiki.cgi
Ben Hyde wrote: On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 03:39 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Right, I don't object to you contributing CVS mail patches. I just am not interested in doing it myself. I'm not trying to be nasty just convey Less talk, more action -Andy Thanks to http://www.fettig.net/projects/hep/, I can have attached-like mails being send to some mailing list. And if someone can patch the RSS feed of the Wiki so that it has more sensible content, I assume we are almost getting there. See attached mails. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org ---BeginMessage--- RSS is out of betahttp://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?action=""> ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?action=""> ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- link to WikiBestPractices
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: NOTE: this wiki has been setup more than a month *before* the ASF wiki was in place. Isn't it fun when they are talking behind your back ;) The Cocoon Wiki went live start of August 2002, actually. But today, I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many us). http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/2002/12/27.html#a114 re: migration issues (and a small comment discussion between ACO and me about 'political correctness') - more specifically, we went at some length making sure people knew they were contributing to an ASF project when adding content to the Wiki: http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=License HTH, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Do note that I don't mind other forms of wiki. I picked this one arbitrarily. I picked it because Andy Hunt runs it on his site (http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?HomePage) Hey, any reason will do. You proposed, you installed, so you get to choose. Technology discussions are boring :) The 'lucky thing' with the Cocoon Wiki was Leigh Dodds jumping in and adding heaps of high quality content he already created in his private Wiki only _minutes_ after me setting up the JSPWiki instance. I'm pretty lucky actually that JSPWiki can take the load, since I didn't thoroughly tested it before choosing it :) snip/ If folks feel like they want to install and volunteer to maintain another wiki, and they're sure its secure, can be feasibly set up with meager resource requirements (no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind cocoondev and its running Linux and not FreeBSD which is a BIG plus for Java), then I'm not intending to get in the way You just need to be sure you know the answers: blush/ cocoondev.org, i.e. all of http://cocoondev.org/sites.html is running on an single CPU Intel P4 2GHz, 1 Gig RAM, 80Gig HD, which is _much_ lower-grade than nagoya IIUC. snip/ veryserious Those are higher priority than Cool Feature X /veryserious Totally agree. For the specific context where the Cocoon Wiki lives in, I can only say it hasn't let me down so far - which doesn't guarantee anything w.r.t. scalability however. The good thing about all this, is that I went to the Apache Wiki little time after it was installed, and saw somebody already had been kind enough to reference the 'real' _Cocoon_ Wiki at http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?CocoonProjectPages /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: Apache Trove
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I'm looking into making these published via Gump, taking a parallel route to the one Steven has taken. We'll soon see the solution and work together on it. I have been background talking with Sam and moved towards using Gump as a datasource, too - but not running inside Gump since I have some Cocoon tricks in mind. Nothing committable yet, though. Do we need to work in parallel? /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Apache Trove
Hi all, due to the recent and upcoming reorgs in terms of the 'federation'/project/subproject structure and the assumed increased difficulty for people finding their way around ASF projects, I have been playing around with a draft 'trove' application, which isn't much more than some XML XSLT glued together, running on top of Cocoon. http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ (warning: data entry hasn't been completed yet) This 'app' runs on top of a very free-formed XML document currently: trove federation name=XML keyword name=XML/ site uri=http://xml.apache.org// description[...]/description project name=FOP keyword name=XSL-FO/ keyword name=Java/ site uri=http://xml.apache.org/fop// /project /federation project name=BCEL site uri=http://jakarta.apache.org/bcel// description[...]/description federation name=Jakarta/ keyword name=Java/ /project [...] and should be maintained by the respective project communities. I already went searching what Gump could offer me in terms of available data, but Gump is for obvious reasons limited to Jakarta and XML (Java) projects. Adding the Gump people to add a 'keyword' element to their descriptors wouldn't cause too much harm, but the problem is that I also store the project hierarchy in my data file, and this is slightly orthogonal to Gump's structure. So adding extra data to Gump's descriptors would help, but not enough and not for everybody (including perl/php/...) Another approach might be to store a small trove file per project in the committers cvs module, where assumably everybody has access too, and me aggregating those. The (XML) structure being required would be something like: project name= site uri=/ description/description keyword name=/ (federation name=/) /project Projects can contain projects, and can be grouped into 'federations', aka httpd, xml, jakarta and others. I tried to set up the stylesheets to do something meaningful without many strict requirements on the hierarchy of the datafile. Anyway, this is just a heads-up. I don't know where I could move it too since it falls a bit in-between projects. The presentation is by no means finished, but should be easy to tweak. I can nurture this thing on my own on my own server, but if other people would be interested in playing along, just gimme a yell. Cheers, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: as well as the critical notion of imagined community... :-)
Ben Hyde wrote: Read this this morning, found it thought provoking... While there are many definitions of community, a review of the sociology literature reveals at least three core components or markers of community, as well as the critical notion of imagined community (Anderson 1983). The first and most important element of community is what Gusfield (1978) refers to as consciousness of kind. consciousness of kind is the intrinsic connection that members feel toward one another, and the collective sense of difference from others not in the community. Consciousness of kind is shared consciousness, a way of thinking about things that is more than shared attitudes or perceived similarity. It is a shared knowing of belonging (Weber [1922] 1978). The second indicator of community is the presence of shared rituals and traditions. Rituals and traditions perpetuate the community's shared history, culture, and consciousness. rituals 'serve to contain the drift of meanings; ... [they] are conventions that set up visible public definitions Douglas and Ishwerwood 1979, p65) and social solidarity (Durkheim [1915] 1965). Traditions are sets of social practices which seek to celebrate and inculcate certain behavioral norms and values' (Marshal 1994, p. 537). The third market of community is a sense of moral responsibility, which is a felt sense of duty or obligation to the community as a whole, and to its individual members. This sense of moral responsibility is what produces, in times of threat to the community, collective action. http://www.brandingkorea.com/data/board/TBBKD_SL/upload/brand_community.pdf or http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:Nz0oNDvblCYC:www.brandingkorea.com/data/board/TBBKD_SL/upload/brand_community.pdf+%22refers+to+as+consciousness+of+kind%22hl=enie=UTF-8 if you want to read more. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: (Note: on infrastructure@, Stephen brought up ASF-wide blogs - my reply was essentially the same as this.) -- justin That's _Steven_, so now we are pretty sure we need that .au file and some phonetical representation of each committers' name! ;-D /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: http://community.apache.org/~name and http://www.apache.org/~name http://cvs.apache.org/~name are automatically redirected there. +1 That page should be hosted on your public_html directory on your cvs.apache.org account (all committers have one, unlike www.apache.org where only a few do) +1 I agree that there should be some usage policy. Maybe something which should be handled by the Infrastructure Team? /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: @apache web pages
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: The advantage is that anyone using forrest could have their pages generated from ONE central running copy of forrest. We won't have 60-300 ssh demons running remotely uploading pages opening up security holes... and its just good clean infrastructure! I'll demonstrate lack of impact on the server, and get blessings from people on infrastructure etc before scheduling this of course. Any volunteers for #1? Any forresters willing to help me out spelunking forrest? Could be one of the things that runs on cocoondev.org (the machine) - being equiped to run Java, and being proposed to be more officially affiliated/endorsed by (at least) the Cocoon community. But then of course it runs externally to daedalus, but having gone through this before, I would not hope for the possibility to run role-based/time-triggered/Java-based processes on daedalus/icarus. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
[final reminder] Cocoon GetTogether (19 Nov) registration closing
Hi all, just a final reminder: registrations for the Cocoon GetTogether on the 19th November will be closing next week. The GetTogether is held in Nazareth, near Ghent in Belgium. Apache Cocoon is an XML publishing framework that raises the usage of XML and XSLT technologies for server applications to a new level. Designed for performance and scalability around pipelined SAX processing, Cocoon offers a flexible environment based on a separation of concerns between content, logic, and style. To top this all off, Cocoon's centralized configuration system and sophisticated caching help you to create, deploy, and maintain rock-solid XML server applications. You'll find all pertinent information about the event at http://outerthought.org/cocoon/gettogether/ Already, more than 80 people have registered, so if you are interested to meet and greet fellow Cocoon users or developers, this event is a must-attend. Besides, this event is free thanks to the kind sponsorship of SN AG, X-Hive, Hippo WebWorks and Outerthought. Note to Apachecon attendees: the coincidence with the Apachecon dates is entirely incidental. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASF Membership Nomination
Sam Ruby wrote: Ted Husted wrote: Lists are how we procreate. Eee... Perhaps there *are* some things that really should be done in private. And please protect the archives from public access :-) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Openness
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: VOTE 1: would you like to make it possible for non-committers to read this mail list thru a web archive? [x] +1 yes, let's make it readable VOTE 2: would you like to make it possible for non-committers to fully subscribe to this mail list? [x] +1 yes, let's open it to everyone Thanks in advance and sorry for the double poll noise. No problem. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Open this list
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles aaargh - you did it again :-) that's Steven-with-a-traling-n (first name) Noels (last name, pronounced like 'news' in English, but then with an 'L' instead ;-) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
infrastructure and reorg
Hi all, don't know whether the community@ list already has a lot of subscribers, so I'm taking the liberty of crossposting. Asbesto suit on :-) In the heat of the discussion, it appears to me that Brian's idea of switching to SourceCast as the underlying administration system for administering ASF resources has been put aside (or postponed, or gently ignored, whatever). Related to that, I'm stuck with a similar hardware/infrastructural issue being somewhere in between infrastructure and incubator. I have been doing some preparation (and hardware/bandwidth acquisition) to support open source development on top of Cocoon. We (some Cocoon-friendly people) have acquired a box specifically tuned and set up for Java/Tomcat/Cocoon web hosting, and baptized it http://cocoondev.org/) - very similar to http://www.mozdev.org/about.html The idea is to help people develop and showcase Cocoon-applications. The reason why we did this, even though an xml-cocoon2-apps module exists, is that people do not only need CVS access and mailing lists for growing a project and its community, but also the possibility of showcasing what they have done. Hence the current emptiness of the xml-cocoon2-apps module. This is currently very difficult to achieve with the available ASF equipment - for reasons I understand. At the same time, we lower the barrier for people willing to become part of cocoondev.org, and potentially be a migration path (similar to Nicola's Krysalis) to proper ASF projects. Already, we have a number of candidate projects wanting to move in (while equipment is still being set up to mirror the setup of the Apache boxes as close as possible) - but now I'm wondering how we could interrelate/cooperate with the incubator idea. While we offer everything a project might need (CVS/shell accounts/ezmlm/Tomcat/Cocoon/DNS), we don't require a project to host everything on our hardware, they could as well have their sourcecode in some incubator CVS module, run mailing lists on ASF equipment, and only have a showcase/demo running on our equipment. On the other hand, we would like to see fellow Cocoon-developers help each other along and form a community on their own, while still maintaining the noise level on cocoon-dev/[EMAIL PROTECTED] to a minimum - since those should be related mostly to the development and use of Cocoon itself - not the apps build on top of it. So what I'm basically stuck with is defining some kind of liaison with the incubator project, specifically with Cocoon-based projects in mind. Maybe it's too much of a niche from the ASF POV currently, but since interest for Cocoon has been increasing dramatically over the past year, I reckon a number of those Cocoon-based projects will be starting the search for project development and showcase infrastructure RSN, and I would like to welcome them to http://cocoondev.org/, while not alienating them from the ASF community in the process, and making the move to incubator as easy as possible. I'm not too confident on the road I should take. Having an A record alias of the form cocoondev.apache.org might establish some sort of credible branding of the initiative, ensuring our users they won't be alienated from ASF. Copying the incubator guidelines verbatim as our own guidelines might also be a way to move forward, but might confuse users on who is actually leading/sponsoring the initiative. I'm not sure, but I expect other community-led initiatives like this might exist for other Apache projects - and I'm wondering how we could eventually be recognized under/banned from the ASF umbrella. Tigris.org comes to mind. Does anyone want to comment on this? Regards, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
