Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
I admit it...you are right. Macworld lied...computerworld...dozens of news organizations lied. MS paid big for this one. I take it all back. Nice review of the press reporting on the CanSecWest Mac crack at Roughly Drafted http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/616874CC-35CE-49D3-B859-C2 719B6FF352.html Beyond the glaring error of conflating a remote exploit with something that requires a concerted effort between a user acting locally on the machine and an outside party, Gohring's article perpetuated a number of myths about Mac security. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
The problem is, a LOT of the windows vulnerabilities require exactly the same thing that was required on the mac...a single click on a website. From the article: While this is a significant flaw that needs to be patched, it is unlikely that anyone who wanted access to a system would be able to set up such a Rube Goldberg event chain to gain access to a specific users' files. They set this Rube Goldberg event chain all the time on windows, how many times is it because of what users do to their own systems? Again: Windows does not do this. (ask for permission to install/change system files etc) Even the new and improved Vista does not ask for authentication. It asks the user to click Allow, after previously having asked the user to click Allow repeatedly. Guess what most users will do when prompted to Allow some executable to do some technical sounding thing in the Registry? So the author describes security on both machines as having to force user input to allow changes, but only the mac guy is smart enough to hit cancel? Ridiculous. Vista gains a critical area in security and apparently it's not *exactly* as on a mac so it's a complete failure? More: An anonymous user on Slashdot (an anonymous user..wow..hope he triple checked his sources. He should have perhaps checked a security vendors website or maybe even, oh...Apple?) described the exploit as involving a JavaScript routine. Sun's Java and Netscape's JavaScript share little in common apart from their names, but both are third party browser plugins that are not specific to Safari. Exploiting either one and calling it a Mac exploit is disingenuous. So who is being disingenuous? eWeek reports that it is not a java problem but a Quicktime bug. http://securitywatch.eweek.com/apple/quicktime_bug_affects_all_javaenabled_browsers.html The blog goes on to blame in several instances that 'third party software was to blame' for any exploit. That also highlights a fact many 'security experts' don't seem to grasp: installing software changes your level of security. While Macs are quite secure when kept up to date, installing software and turning on new services can open one up to attack vectors that Apple can't control for you. Third party software?? It was a Quicktime bug...Apple. So now Apple installed Quicktime is third party software? This from Newsfactor: http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=51967 As it turns out, by enticing a user to visit a Web page containing a maliciously crafted Java applet, an attacker can exploit the QuickTime bug, leading to arbitrary code execution, according to an Apple bulletin. The bug is considered very serious, Apple said, and can be exploited through any Java-enabled browser, including Microsofthttp://www.cio-today.com/accuserve/accuserve-go.php?c=6098 [image: Relevant Products/Services]http://www.cio-today.com/accuserve/accuserve-go.php?c=6098's Internet Explorer 7, Mozilla's Firefox, and Apple's own Safari. The vulnerability affects Macs and Windows PCs. So now we have even APPLE calling it a quicktime bug. Looks like roughlydrafted is being a little disingenuous. Mike On 5/11/07, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I admit it...you are right. Macworld lied...computerworld...dozens of news organizations lied. MS paid big for this one. I take it all back. Nice review of the press reporting on the CanSecWest Mac crack at Roughly Drafted http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/616874CC-35CE-49D3-B859-C2 719B6FF352.html Beyond the glaring error of conflating a remote exploit with something that requires a concerted effort between a user acting locally on the machine and an outside party, Gohring's article perpetuated a number of myths about Mac security. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
I could manage without Windows, but why not have it there, just in case? I used to do that, especially with books, but now books are obsolete and I'm gradually tossing them. When I toss an obsolete tech book that I never read that is a waste. Unlike books which are mostly not dangerous to have around (unless Homeland Security takes an interest in your reading habits), having Windows around can be potentially harmful. Would you keep a loaded shotgun at your front door, just in case? Some people would. The argument for not having Windows and not having that loaded gun is about the same. It could potentially hurt others. Both the gun and Windows owner will insist: I know what I'm doing. Yet the plague of shootings and the plague of malware would not exist if they were not around. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
It doesn't matter why he wants Windows on the Mac (he did tell us later on). It never occured to me to ask WHY he wanted to do it, I simply assumed that he had a need that the Mac was not able to meet on its own. The strident reactions remind me of a time when I was frequently telling people on a bus, airplane, waiting room, etc.: This is not a smoking area. Many were indignant that I was violating their rights. I am happy that times have changed. The point is that by using Windows you are harming me and I wish you would stop. The malware, spam, and security measures are becoming too much to bear. I should not be forced to build walls and hire guards just because you insist on running a crackhouse. Stop running defective software! * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
So what do we run? Couple of weeks ago it was proven an exploit for mac os could be written in under ten hours that would send out spam or do any number of the things you complain about . Maybe we should all use a commadore 64 and keep off the net completely. That would solve the problem. Mike On 5/8/07, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stop running defective software! * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
I have spent over $10,000 on hardware this year, and untold time, that serves no purpose other than to scrub spam. I can tell you from experience, logs and stats that 90% of our spam is coming from infected Windows machines. I am beginning to firmly believe that Windows IS a virus. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 4:04 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: The point is that by using Windows you are harming me and I wish you would stop. The malware, spam, and security measures are becoming too much to bear. I should not be forced to build walls and hire guards just because you insist on running a crackhouse. Stop running defective software! * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
You need to reread the facts. http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/25/qthack/index.php That's from macworld, not exactly in the pocket of MS. It was not a proof of concept it was an actual exploit of an actual bug in quicktime. Changing the rules meant the mac user would have to go to a website and click a link...that's IT. That's ALL. This type of hack is the same as most on windows. So a hack that attacks a mac in the SAME WAY as windows is making it easier? As stated in the article it was akin to the windows cursor flaw, click and your owned. Take your Apple specs off and stand back, get some perpsective, your constant windows bashing is taking a toll on your objectivity. Windows is now like a loaded gun, and after stating that you say that's not an exaggeration? Mike On 5/8/07, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what do we run? Couple of weeks ago it was proven an exploit for mac os could be written in under ten hours that would send out spam or do any number of the things you complain about . Maybe we should all use a commadore 64 and keep off the net completely. This is a terrible exaggeration. This was not an exploit, but a minimal proof of concept. The contest had run for days with no winner so they changed the rules to make it easier. Apple patched it a few days later. You seem to have a problem distinguishing between the real and the unreal. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
When was the last time this happened on a Mac? Apple has already patched the hole that was documented in very short order, as they usually do. Windows on the other hand.. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 3:09 PM, mike wrote: So what do we run? Couple of weeks ago it was proven an exploit for mac os could be written in under ten hours that would send out spam or do any number of the things you complain about . Maybe we should all use a commadore 64 and keep off the net completely. That would solve the problem. Mike * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
This contest proved that a mac could be hacked easily...as soon as there was some motive to do so which was money. This has been the contention of many that the reasons macs aren't targeted is not because they are more secure but because there is no point, no money in it. If your job is to get as many machines on a botnet as possible why would you target such a minuscule audience? If you are interested in making money from spam, again why target an audience where there are nothing but empty seats in the theater? In April alone Apple released a dozen security patches that could allow arbitrary code to be run. Each one of these a possible exploit of the type that was used at CanSecWest. Right now is it 'safer' to run mac os then windows? Sure. But I think the reason why that is so is misunderstood by most mac users. The spread of this misinformation doesn't do anyone any good. It's become a knee jerk reaction from mac users when talked to about security to just recite the mantra 'we are more secure'. All I hope for is a little intellectual honesty about the topic and less kool-aid. Mike On 5/8/07, Mason Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When was the last time this happened on a Mac? Apple has already patched the hole that was documented in very short order, as they usually do. Windows on the other hand.. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 3:09 PM, mike wrote: So what do we run? Couple of weeks ago it was proven an exploit for mac os could be written in under ten hours that would send out spam or do any number of the things you complain about . Maybe we should all use a commadore 64 and keep off the net completely. That would solve the problem. Mike * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
People have been spreading this intellectual honesty for years, and still no mac exploits. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 7:03 PM, mike wrote: In April alone Apple released a dozen security patches that could allow arbitrary code to be run. Each one of these a possible exploit of the type that was used at CanSecWest. Right now is it 'safer' to run mac os then windows? Sure. But I think the reason why that is so is misunderstood by most mac users. The spread of this misinformation doesn't do anyone any good. It's become a knee jerk reaction from mac users when talked to about security to just recite the mantra 'we are more secure'. All I hope for is a little intellectual honesty about the topic and less kool-aid. Mike * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
I admit it...you are right. Macworld lied...computerworld...dozens of news organizations lied. MS paid big for this one. I take it all back. Happiness is in your own little world unruffled and unfettered by things such as truth. Mike On 5/8/07, Mason Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People have been spreading this intellectual honesty for years, and still no mac exploits. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 7:03 PM, mike wrote: In April alone Apple released a dozen security patches that could allow arbitrary code to be run. Each one of these a possible exploit of the type that was used at CanSecWest. Right now is it 'safer' to run mac os then windows? Sure. But I think the reason why that is so is misunderstood by most mac users. The spread of this misinformation doesn't do anyone any good. It's become a knee jerk reaction from mac users when talked to about security to just recite the mantra 'we are more secure'. All I hope for is a little intellectual honesty about the topic and less kool-aid. Mike * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
On 5/8/07, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This contest proved that a mac could be hacked easily...as soon as there was some motive to do so which was money. No, it didn't. It did prove (which didn't need to be proven), that there are cross-operating system vulnerabilities. One of them is the widespread use of QuickTime. It also proved that in spite of offering money to hack OS X, no one could do it. Actually, most Windows exploits are not because of things like QuickTime or PDF vulnerabilities. I don't know if Vista has been checked, but a new XP SP 2 computer, connected directly to the Internet (no router, say a DSL modem or cable modem - as most ISPs want you to do, even now), will be hacked in a matter of minutes (usually around 10-20 minutes). A new, out-of-the-box Mac OS X computer in the same situation will not get hacked. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
On 5/8/07, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I admit it...you are right. Macworld lied...computerworld...dozens of news organizations lied. MS paid big for this one. I take it all back. MacWorld didn't lie. Nowhere in the article did it say there was any vulnerability in Mac OS X. Because no one found one. If there is a vulnerability in PHP, then anyone running PHP with their web server is vulnerable - Mac, Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc. Same for QuickTime. And this probably will show those interested in going after Macs that apparently the only approach is to look for this kind of thing. And it is definitely potentially dangerous - or at least it was for a few days. Which makes me wonder how Macs are shipped - if I go buy a new one next Sunday will it have this patch for Quicktime with it, or do I need to do an update when I get home? -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Neighbor Runs A Crackhouse [Was: How to Install Fre
Generally they are current within weeks. Mason On May 8, 2007, at 7:44 PM, John DeCarlo wrote: Which makes me wonder how Macs are shipped - if I go buy a new one next Sunday will it have this patch for Quicktime with it, or do I need to do an update when I get home? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
