Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 07:11:03PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Ben Rosengart writes: On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 05:55:13PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Ben Rosengart writes: Simple: we generate a userdb on host A, in /export/foo. We read it on host B, in /foo. Please do not suggest that we maintain two builds of courier-imap. I don't think you would appreciate it if someone treated you as if your time had no value, so please don't do the same to me. And you cannot symlink /foo/userdb.dat and /foo/userdbshadow.dat to /export because... No reason, as long as I only have one set of users. As soon as I build host C, with a different set of users, I'm screwed. This is where you lost me. What exactly is the problem with host C? I need to manage it from host A. Now I either have to maintain separate builds of courier-imap, or delete and recreate the symlink every time either database is rebuilt (and make sure never to try to update both databases at once). -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:43:13AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:32:14 -0400 Ben Rosengart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # #If I build courier to use /foo/userdb*, and have a symlink on host #A from /foo to /export/foo, then to build the database for host C, #I have to change /foo to point to /export/bar. Or have a separate #build of courier which uses /export/bar/userdb*, which I only use #on host A to build the database for host C. Or what am I missing? Let me get this straight, you want to maintain the same userdb across multiple servers right? No, I want to maintain multiple userdbs across multiple servers. (I also want to maintain the same userdb across multiple servers, but I can do that without patching makeuserdb, as you point out, so it's not really relevant to this discussion.) -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:57:20 -0400 Ben Rosengart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # #No, I want to maintain multiple userdbs across multiple servers. # #(I also want to maintain the same userdb across multiple servers, but # I can do that without patching makeuserdb, as you point out, so it's # not really relevant to this discussion.) A) when replying please use 'l' to reply, instead of reply-all. Your client (mutt) is smart enough to handle list email, so l replies to the list, and I don't get a second copy of your reply in my inbox. B) What is your problem with the multiple userdbs across multiple servers? One DB per server? I'm lost as to what your problem is. -- Jesse Keating j2Solutions.net Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 11:07:06AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: A) when replying please use 'l' to reply, instead of reply-all. Your client (mutt) is smart enough to handle list email, so l replies to the list, and I don't get a second copy of your reply in my inbox. What do you have this key bound to? It's not bound for me. I moved my .muttrc out of the way to see if it has a default binding, but it doesn't appear to. You can reply to me off-list on this point. B) What is your problem with the multiple userdbs across multiple servers? One DB per server? I'm lost as to what your problem is. It is impossible to build more than one userdb on the same host using the same build of courier, because one cannot control where makeuserdb places its output except at compile time. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 02:30:24PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Why don't you simply build Courier using --sysconfdir=/etc/courier and --with-userdb=/etc/courier/userdb, and install a soft link on each host, /etc/courier, that points to the right configuration directory for that host where all the configuration files, not just userdb, are saved. I.E., on host A /etc/courier points to /foo/export, on host B /etc/courier points someplace else. You now have a consistent naming schere and you don't have to remember where on each host this directory may be found -- you just look where /etc/courier points to. Let's run over this once more. Hosts B and C run courier. They use different userdbs. Each mounts a filesystem from host A as /courier. So, in B's fstab, you see something more or less like: A:/export/B /courier nfs rw 0,0 Host A does not run courier. It's a configuration management host. It stores the userdb source files somewhere, and writes B's userdb data files to /export/B, and C's to /export/C. I think I realized where the confusion stems from. You think I'm running makeuserdb on hosts B and C. If I did that, then there would not be a problem. But I have been proceeding all this time on the assumption that makeuserdb would be running on host A. The problem with running makeuserdb on hosts B and C is that it costs me an ssh every time I change a database on host A. On the other hand, the locking of the database is more likely to work correctly. I have to think about this more. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 03:34:03PM -0400, Ben Rosengart wrote: The problem with running makeuserdb on [production hosts instead of a management host] is that it costs me an ssh every time I change a database on [the management host]. It also means that if I have N hosts and N/4 different databases, I have to run makeuserdb four times as many times as I would if I ran it on the management host, which can be significant if the databases are large. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
If you're only running 'makeuserdb' on host A, then there's not much of a problem with the current system. You can symlink userdb/whatever to the files you need, and run 'makeuserdb' on host A. Hosts B and C only need to read userdb.dat, so there shouldn't be a need for external files. If you wanted (at any point) to maintain different userdb's on different hosts, while sharing the courier installation, you'd want to make the userdb directory and the userdb.dat file symlinks to /etc/local-courier/userdb (or something similar), so that each machine could maintain its own. It would not be sufficient to patch 'makeuserdb' in this case, because the hosts would overwrite the NFS mounted userdb.dat, and break the other hosts. On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 12:34, Ben Rosengart wrote: Hosts B and C run courier. They use different userdbs. Each mounts a filesystem from host A as /courier. So, in B's fstab, you see something more or less like: A:/export/B /courier nfs rw 0,0 Host A does not run courier. It's a configuration management host. It stores the userdb source files somewhere, and writes B's userdb data files to /export/B, and C's to /export/C. I think I realized where the confusion stems from. You think I'm running makeuserdb on hosts B and C. If I did that, then there would not be a problem. But I have been proceeding all this time on the assumption that makeuserdb would be running on host A. The problem with running makeuserdb on hosts B and C is that it costs me an ssh every time I change a database on host A. On the other hand, the locking of the database is more likely to work correctly. I have to think about this more. --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:32:43PM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote: If you're only running 'makeuserdb' on host A, then there's not much of a problem with the current system. You can symlink userdb/whatever to the files you need, and run 'makeuserdb' on host A. Hosts B and C only need to read userdb.dat, so there shouldn't be a need for external files. For the tenth time, host A has to write two (or more) different sets of .dat files, and the location to which makeuserdb writes those files is fixed at compile time, so it is not possible to write more than one set of .dat files on the same host without maintaining multiple builds of courier or changing symlinks every time. If you wanted (at any point) to maintain different userdb's on different hosts, while sharing the courier installation, you'd want to make the userdb directory and the userdb.dat file symlinks to /etc/local-courier/userdb (or something similar), so that each machine could maintain its own. It would not be sufficient to patch 'makeuserdb' in this case, because the hosts would overwrite the NFS mounted userdb.dat, and break the other hosts. Reread my last post and you will see why this is not a concern. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
Ben Rosengart wrote: On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 11:07:06AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: A) when replying please use 'l' to reply, instead of reply-all. Your client (mutt) is smart enough to handle list email, so l replies to the list, and I don't get a second copy of your reply in my inbox. What do you have this key bound to? It's not bound for me. I moved my .muttrc out of the way to see if it has a default binding, but it doesn't appear to. You can reply to me off-list on this point. Jesse probably meant the 'reply to (g)roup' key. -- Juha --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Fri, Jul 19, 2002 at 08:39:29AM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote: Ben Rosengart wrote: On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 11:07:06AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: A) when replying please use 'l' to reply, instead of reply-all. Your client (mutt) is smart enough to handle list email, so l replies to the list, and I don't get a second copy of your reply in my inbox. What do you have this key bound to? It's not bound for me. I moved my .muttrc out of the way to see if it has a default binding, but it doesn't appear to. You can reply to me off-list on this point. Jesse probably meant the 'reply to (g)roup' key. No, that's what he was asking me not to do. He meant 'L'. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
RE: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
Without changing makeuserdb, you're not going to be able to keep your current setup without moving some files around every time you rebuild userdb. I would suggest writing a small script to do it for you. cp -f /export/B/userdb /courier/etc/userdb makeuserdb cp -f /courier/etc/userdb.dat /export/B/userdb.dat Have the script accept an argument for B or C and you can do makemyuserdb B or makemyuserdb C. It should work as far as I can see, but I'm a newbie with Courier and the userdb files. Anyone see a problem with this? Bowie -Original Message- From: Gordon Messmer [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility If you're only running 'makeuserdb' on host A, then there's not much of a problem with the current system. You can symlink userdb/whatever to the files you need, and run 'makeuserdb' on host A. Hosts B and C only need to read userdb.dat, so there shouldn't be a need for external files. If you wanted (at any point) to maintain different userdb's on different hosts, while sharing the courier installation, you'd want to make the userdb directory and the userdb.dat file symlinks to /etc/local-courier/userdb (or something similar), so that each machine could maintain its own. It would not be sufficient to patch 'makeuserdb' in this case, because the hosts would overwrite the NFS mounted userdb.dat, and break the other hosts. On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 12:34, Ben Rosengart wrote: Hosts B and C run courier. They use different userdbs. Each mounts a filesystem from host A as /courier. So, in B's fstab, you see something more or less like: A:/export/B /courier nfs rw 0,0 Host A does not run courier. It's a configuration management host. It stores the userdb source files somewhere, and writes B's userdb data files to /export/B, and C's to /export/C. I think I realized where the confusion stems from. You think I'm running makeuserdb on hosts B and C. If I did that, then there would not be a problem. But I have been proceeding all this time on the assumption that makeuserdb would be running on host A. The problem with running makeuserdb on hosts B and C is that it costs me an ssh every time I change a database on host A. On the other hand, the locking of the database is more likely to work correctly. I have to think about this more. --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:39:29 +1200 Juha Saarinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # #Jesse probably meant the 'reply to (g)roup' key. Nope, I meant the L key, only lowercase. It means reply-list in Mutt. Most _smart_ clients handle mailing lists the way that they should, when the list is adhering to RFC's, and not munging the reply-to header. -- Jesse Keating j2Solutions.net Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:53:30PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: Nope, I meant the L key, only lowercase. It means reply-list in Mutt. Most _smart_ clients handle mailing lists the way that they should, when the list is adhering to RFC's, and not munging the reply-to header. Hmmm... 'L' should work, according to the mutt help file, but it complains of 'No mailing lists found'. Probably a local configuration issue and OT for Courier-Users ;-). -- Regards, Juha C program run. C program crash. C programmer quit. --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 05:06:35PM -0400, Bowie Bailey wrote: Without changing makeuserdb, you're not going to be able to keep your current setup without moving some files around every time you rebuild userdb. That is correct. cp -f /export/B/userdb /courier/etc/userdb makeuserdb cp -f /courier/etc/userdb.dat /export/B/userdb.dat [...] It should work as far as I can see, but I'm a newbie with Courier and the userdb files. Anyone see a problem with this? The programmer's eternal bugbear, concurrency. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 05:03:26PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: That's fine. A small change of plans: you're not going to run makeuserdb by hand. You'll run a shell script that creates a soft link from /etc/courier to /export/B before running makeuserdb once, then creates a soft link from /etc/courier to /export/C and runs makeuserdb again. Oh no I won't. What happens when both databases are being updated at the same time? You want the shell wrapper for makeuserdb to include locking too? All to avoid adding five lines to makeuserdb! (If two copies of this arrive, I apologize: I sent it out with the wrong sender address the first time, so I expect the first copy will be rejected by the mailing list software.) -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 05:03:26PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: That's fine. A small change of plans: you're not going to run makeuserdb by hand. You'll run a shell script that creates a soft link from /etc/courier to /export/B before running makeuserdb once, then creates a soft link from /etc/courier to /export/C and runs makeuserdb again. Oh no I won't. What happens when both databases are being updated at the same time? You want the shell wrapper for makeuserdb to include locking too? All to avoid adding five lines to makeuserdb! -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 05:04:56PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Ben Rosengart writes: The destination directory can currently be set at compile time. I am proposing making this configurable at run-time too. What is the down-side? Who could possibly be harmed by making the software slightly more flexible? It reminds me of a quote I've heard a long time ago, regarding the federal budget appropriations process in Washington, DC: A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you'll be talking real money. This is a five-line patch, not counting whitespace. The feature is easy to test; I can supply a test program suitable for a regression suite if you like. Existing facilities already handle the situation adequately. How? Unless I misunderstand the directory mechanism, neither of the methods you've suggested is adequate. I do not really remember your particular details. Simple: we generate a userdb on host A, in /export/foo. We read it on host B, in /foo. Please do not suggest that we maintain two builds of courier-imap. I don't think you would appreciate it if someone treated you as if your time had no value, so please don't do the same to me. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 13:16, Ben Rosengart wrote: Simple: we generate a userdb on host A, in /export/foo. We read it on host B, in /foo. Please do not suggest that we maintain two builds of courier-imap. I don't think you would appreciate it if someone treated you as if your time had no value, so please don't do the same to me. Didn't you say that you needed that feature because you had multiple installs of courier? If you only have one, why is it not sufficient to symlink your additional userdb files into /etc/courier/userdb/? --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Re: giving makeuserdb a little flexibility
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 05:55:13PM -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Ben Rosengart writes: Simple: we generate a userdb on host A, in /export/foo. We read it on host B, in /foo. Please do not suggest that we maintain two builds of courier-imap. I don't think you would appreciate it if someone treated you as if your time had no value, so please don't do the same to me. And you cannot symlink /foo/userdb.dat and /foo/userdbshadow.dat to /export because... No reason, as long as I only have one set of users. As soon as I build host C, with a different set of users, I'm screwed. -- Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215 Microsoft has argued that open source is bad for business, but you have to ask, Whose business? Theirs, or yours?--Tim O'Reilly --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ courier-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
