Re: [CTRL] Golden Dawn or the Dawn of Zionism ?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Ummm ... so?

What exactly is infamous about the 
"infamous second "Hermanoubis" Temple of the Golden Dawn" ... ???

Dave.





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 1:52 PM
  Subject: "Golden Dawn" or the Dawn of 
  Zionism ?
  -Caveat Lector- The Rothschild-Cecil/Balfour 
  Alliance / Freemasonry  "Hermetic (Jewish) Mysticism" http://www.osogd.org/library/biscuits/history.htmlPossible Masonic 
  Roots of the Golden Dawn(from the "Golden Dawn FAQ" by Stephen R. 
  Cranmer)Some scholars have suggested that there is a more direct 
  connection between the Golden Dawn and Masonry: a historical one, via a 
  possible source of the mysterious "Cipher Manuscripts" which Westcott and 
  Mathers used to construct the Outer Order rituals. Several sources have 
  alluded to the existence of little-known Masonic groups in the early 19th 
  century which have an eerie similarity to the Golden Dawn. Specifically, there 
  have been two (possibly related, possibly identical) possibilities:(1) 
  The "Loge zur aufgehenden Morgenrothe," a Masonic Lodge in Frankfort with a 
  primarily Jewish membership. Referred to in French as the "Aurore 
  naissante," (both titles meaning "Rising Dawn"), this group was founded by 
  three Masons connected with the Rite of Strict Observance of von Hund. In 
  1817, a subsidiary Lodge was formed in London by the Duke of Sussex, the Grand 
  Master of the United Grand Lodge of England. In 1822, it was closed by an 
  Anton Wolf, who might have been a representative from the Mother Lodge in 
  Frankfort.(2) A "Qabalistic College" in London, also known as the 
  "Chabrath Zerek Aour Bokher" ("Society of the Shining Light of the Dawn"), 
  formed around 1810 by a Johannes Friedrich ("Rabbi") Falk, from 
  Hamburg, Germany. Mentioned mainly by Kenneth Mackenzie's Royal Masonic 
  Cyclopaeida, this organization might have been a long-propagating 
  fraud.Both of these supposed London-based Lodges have been argued to 
  be the infamous second "Hermanoubis" Temple of the Golden Dawn. The Cipher 
  Manuscripts, which were probably written circa 1860-1870, are similarly argued 
  to have come indirectly from one of these groups, via such varied persons as 
  Kenneth Mackenzie, Lord Bulwer-Lytton, or Frederick Hockley. Further research 
  is definitely required to prove any of these hypotheses. For more information, 
  see:Gilbert, R. A., 1990, "Provenance Unknown: A Tentative Solution to 
  the Riddle of the Cipher Manuscript of the Golden Dawn," in Wege und 
  Abwege: Beitraege zur europaeischen Geistesgeschichte der Neuzeit, ed. A. 
  Goetz von Olenhusen (Freiburg: Hochschul Verlag), p. 79.Heisler, R. 
  1989, "Precursors of the Golden Dawn," in Cauda Pavonis: Studies in 
  Hermeticism, v. 8, no. 1, 1-4.Prinke, R. T. 1987, "The Deeper 
  Roots of the Golden Dawn," in The Hermetic Journal, 36, 
  16.www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL 
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  screeds are unwelcomed. Substancebnot soap-boxingbplease! These are sordid 
  matters and 'conspiracy theory'bwith its many half-truths, mis- directions 
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  minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being 
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  to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] JFK Versus World Zionism

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Your half-wit paranoid rant BS is clear evidence why people ought not have
siblings for parents.

Your homoerotic queer eye imagery of myself with a boyfriend is probably
the result of too much of that wacky weed you toke whilst thumbing gay porn
mags featuring your Fuhrer. Is it true that you're a is a wife beater and
kiddie diddler BS?

And you still haven't explained evidentially or factually what your ilk is
supposed to mean? Or has demonisation simply become an emotionally
uncontrollable habit for you - an addiction?

picks fights  -- now that's a piss-weak diversionary trick BS and everyone
knows it. On the one hand Mr BS wants cart blanche for himself to allegedly
innocuously question, spin-term to post his political screeds, whilst
questioners of the questioner are deemed inappropriate and picking fights.
Now that's funny!

The phrase self-loathing is one I've used myself when context supported
the claim. I think the fact that BS finds so much epiphany with so much
negativism and neo-Nazi ideologues; that term would tend to be indicative of
his own hate-drenched paranoia, certainly not mine.

So much so that he forcibly and regularly barfs the content of his cranial
colostomy bag, mixed with that of his co-Fundi Conspiracy kooks, onto this
forum.

On the issue of Zionism, Mr BS's rhetorically phrased question about
myself is just that - rhetoric designed somehow to smear because his
paranoid brain (term loosely employed) thinks there are evil Zionists
everywhere. He probably sees Zionists swimming in his alphabet soup at the
Nursing Home.

If one rummages through the archives here they'd note I've had more than the
odd disagreement with an ardent supporter of most things Israel ala Zuukie
and I am on record in first place in proposing that Israel is in fact a
tool, a puppet State of the West; particularly the US, and not some
concocted chimera that the neo-Nazi, ZOG clowns, bandy about with their
bonehead blather about Jews running America in whatever kitsch anti-Semitic
euphemism or code-word they presently bandy about.

The fundamental mores of America are Christian. Just recently, the allegedly
all-powerful Jews couldn't even stop a grotesque and ghastly Catholic snuff
movie like the Passion of Christ from being distributed widely, whilst the
powerful Religious Right of America were instrumental in censoring a mildly
unfavourable mini-drama series about Ronald Reagan from being aired in the
mass media!

My inference that BS shares the rhetoric and tripe of White Supremacists is
evidenced by the their common and mutual demonisations as does my inference
of his inherent neo-Nazi gestations, and I had reasons to mention the
butcher Stalin also.

One simply has to note the number of times, including the post I commented
on; where he quotes fabrications along with adulated references to the
established and well-known forgery The Protocols of Zion.

The Protocols of Zion is the modern terrorists bible, much as it is to
White Supremacists and as it was to Adolf Hitler.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a notorious, antisemitic forgery,
which is still being printed and read today. Alfred Rosenberg reissued the
Protocols in Nazi Germany (Protokolle der Weisen von Zion) and Hitler
believed in their authenticity and referred to them in Mein Kampf; Nazi
authorities recommended the use of the Protocols in schools.

From Mein Kampf: The Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion
From Chapter XI: Nation and Race -- Volume I: A Reckoning

  To what extent the whole existence of this people is based on a
continuous lie is shown incomparably by the Protocols of the Wise Men of
Zion, so infinitely hated by the Jews. They are based on a forgery, the
Frankfurter Zeitung moans and screams once every week: the best proof that
they are authentic. What many Jews may do unconsciously is here consciously
exposed. And that is what matters. It is completely indifferent from what
Jewish brain these disclosures originate; the important thing is that with
positively terrifying certainty they reveal the nature and activity of the
Jewish people and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate
final aims. The best criticism applied to them, however, is reality. Anyone
who examines the historical development of the last hundred years from the
standpoint of this book will at once understand the screaming of the Jewish
press. For once this book has become the common property of a people, the
Jewish menace may be considered as broken.

Similarly, Stalin produced a siamese version of the Jewish conspiracy myth
in which Jews figured as agents of an imperialist plot to destroy the Soviet
Union and assassinate its leaders. This myth was used to secure the
execution of Rudolf Slansky and his Jewish colleagues on the Central
Committee of the Czechoslovak Communist party in 1952, and it also formed
the basis for the story of the 'doctors' plot' in 1953.

Edvard Radzinsky, STALIN: The First In-Depth Biography Based on 

Re: [CTRL] Righteous Israeli

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Yeah, they never die; they become Judeophobes and IllumiNutty conspiracy 
mongers, andinfest this list.

Dave.


- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Prudy L 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Righteous 
  Israeli
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  
  In a message dated 5/10/2004 8:59:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  JERUSALEM, May 9 -- Controversial conductor Daniel Barenboim 
angered Israeliofficials Sunday when he criticized the country's 
occupation of the West Bankand Gaza as he accepted a prestigious Israeli 
award.
  Poor guy. You know what happens to people who criticize 
  Israel. Prudy
  
  
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=""ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] JFK Versus World Zionism

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

In the real 3D world, you wouldn't wanna come near this piece of human
faeces with a stick, let alone wallow in like Billy S does on this forum
when he's not busy thumbing Mein Kampf or getting a tattoo of Adolf on his
arse.

Is there anyone left on this forum that isn't a brain-dead  neo-Nazi shill?

Dave.



- Original Message -
From: William Shannon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:29 AM
Subject: [CTRL] JFK Versus World Zionism


-Caveat Lector- http://www.rense.com/general53/fjk.htm



JFK Versus World Zionism
By Donald J Cassidy
5-27-4

On Memorial Day, let US remember John F. Kennedy, the last American
president. Like Rachel Corrie he was martyred by World Zionism. WE SHALL
WIPE OUT ALL THOSE WHO HINDER US (Protocol #3). In his few years, he seemed
to recognize and do battle against this evil political system described in
the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

In 1961 Benjamin Freedman, a loyal American, warned that even then Zionists
ruled the United States like monarchs. (Note, Mr. Freedman said Zionists
not Jews.) He was personally acquainted with John F. Kennedy who appeared
to be the first of a political family dynasty. JFK's policies could change
history. JFK instituted measures that would cripple World Zionism and its
global cycle of war, financial crises, militarism, inflation, depressions,
and usurious debt, all outlined in the Protocols.

Zionist apologists dispute the authenticity of this Devil's Black Bible but
that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that World Zionism has been
following them word for word for more than a century in its secret scheming
for world rule. According to the Protocols, THE GOYIM ARE A FLOCK OF SHEEP
AND WE ARE THEIR WOLVES (#11). IT IS INDISPENSABLE TO UTTERLY EXHAUST
HUMANITY WITH DISSENTION, HATRED, STRUGGLE, ENVY, TORTURE, STARVATION,
INNOCULATIONS AGAINST DISEASES, WANT (#10). Like a cancer on humanity,
World Zionism has been undetected for many years and now emerges when it is

in its deadly final stages. OUR POWER WILL REMAIN INVISIBLE UNTIL IT HAS
GAINED SUCH STRENGTH NO CUNNING CAN UNDERMINE IT (#1). WHO WILL SUSPECT THAT
ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE STAGE MANAGED BY US ACCORDING TO POLITICAL PLANS WHICH
NO ONE HAS SO MUCH AS GUESSED AT FOR ALL THESE YEARS (#13). WE ARE
INVINCIBLE (#3).

First, JFK ordered the Vietnam War stopped and the troops brought home.
Vietnam was the latest Oil War. Who owns World Oil? The Rothschilds. They
own Yukos Oil in Russia and own the Rockefellers in America. Do they
also own the Saudis? WE MUST RESPOND TO EVERY ACT BY WAR ON THAT COUNTRY
THAT DARES TO OPPOSE US. CHECKING THE OPPOSITION OF THE GOYIM BY UNIVERSAL
WAR (#7). THE ASSISTANCE WE GIVE [money] WILL PUT BOTH SIDES AT OUR MERCY
(#2). War fills the graveyards of humanity but war debt fills the cash
accounts of World Zionism.

Second, JFK was going to wind down the Arms Race and seek world peace. The
trillions spent for Defense was never for the defense of America but for
an arsenal to enable World Zionism to impose its Capitalism on the rest of
the world. WE SHALL SET UP A SUPER GOVERNMENT THAT SHALL SUBDUE ALL THE
NATIONS OF THE WORLD (#5). INTENSIFICATION OF ARMAMENTS ARE ESSENTIAL FOR
OUR PLANS. WE SHALL SHOW OUR STRENGTH TO ALL WITH THE GUNS OF AMERICA (#7).
In addition, the vast debt of the Arms Race paid billions in interest every
year to World Zionism. This debt has bankrupt America. LOANS BURDENED THE
STATE WITH THE PAYMENT OF INTEREST. ALL THE WEALTH OF THE STATE FLOWED INTO
OUR CASHBOXES. TO THIS WE OWE OUR MASTERY OVER THE GOYIM (#20).

Third, JFK ordered the Treasury to print US currency instead of the
Rothschild Federal Reserve Notes supported by the Rothschild illegal income
tax. The US bonds, held by the Fed for our Fed currency, pay many billions
in interest annually to World Zionism. With a stroke of the pen JFK would
cost them trillions as well as their domination of global money and finances
through debt and speculation. LOANS HANG LIKE A SWORD OF DAMOCLES OVER THE
HEADS OF RULERS. COUNTRIES ARE DEBTORS TO OUR TREASURIES TO AMOUNTS QUITE
IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY. STATES ARE DRAINED AND THE GOYIM PAY US THE TRIBUTE OF
SUBJECTS (#20).

Fourth, JFK intruded on the wage price spiral in the steel industry in favor
of labor. The corporate stock of US Steel plummeted, a bad omen for
Capitalism. THE DESPOTISM OF CAPITAL IS ENTIRELY IN OUR HANDS (#1). HUNGER
CREATES THE RIGHT OF CAPITAL TO RULE THE WORKER MONEYGRINDING SCOUND-RELS
HAVE LAID A PITILESS AND CRUEL YOKE UPON THE NECKS OF THE WORKERS (#3).
CONCENTRATION OF INDUSTRY IN THE HANDS OF CAPITALISTS HAS DRAINED AWAY ALL
THE JUICES OF THE PEOPLE (#20). CAPITAL MUST BE FREE TO ESTABLISH A MONOPOLY
OF INDUSTRY AND TRADE; THIS WILL HELP OPPRESS THE PEOPLE (#5). WE SHALL
RAISE WAGES WHICH SHALL NOT BRING ADVANTAGE TO THE WORKERS FOR WE SHALL
RAISE PRICES FOR THE NECESSARIES OF LIFE (#6).

Fifth, JFK would not give nuclear weapons to Israel. Jews invented these
inhuman weapons in 

Re: [CTRL] The Ascendecy of The Scientific Dictatorship

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

This one was one of the most humorous and ignorant pieces of superstitious
tripe spotted -- sealed at the end with the usual sky fairy followers
signet, with the best amoeba level intelligence they could muster, that
Science is ... the theocracy of Satan.

I don't know about you; that's certainly put the bjeezus fear into me; and
for starters I'll be turning off the electricity, water and gas lest I
become a follower of Satan!

On a matter of literary honesty; now if anyone actually bothered to read the
opening volley from the quote attributed to Mencken in context; Mencken is
actually making a humorous jab at the silly and superstitious buffoons such
as this one who wrote this nonsense - he's not supporting them! These
veritable nutters who believe we ought be governed by him and his
all-powerful sky fairy deity who will protect one and all from their evil
cave troll Satan and his evil minions - the dwarfs.

Aside from it's paranoid and superstitious nuttiness; the piece was about as
useful as rubber lips on a woodpecker.

Dave.


- Original Message -
From: Kris Millegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:11 AM
Subject: [CTRL] The Ascendecy of The Scientific Dictatorship


an excerpt from:
The Ascendecy of The Scientific Dictatorship
Phillip Darrel Collins2004  Paul David Collins
iUniverse, Inc
2021 Pine Lake Road, Suite 100
Lincoln., NE 68512
ISBN 0-595-31164-4
231 pages
www.iuniverse.com


Foreword

H.L. Mencken, who witnessed the Scopes trial, wrote:

There is, it appears, a conspiracy of scientists afoot. Their purpose is to
break down religion, propagate immorality, and so reduce mankind to the
level of the brutes. They are the sworn and sinister agents of Beelzebub who
yearns to conquer the world...

Hyperbolic though they may sound, Mencken's words were closer to the truth
than, perhaps, even he realized. Few are not acquainted with the timeworn
adage: Knowledge is power. In the original Latin, the word science meant
knowing or knowledge. The conspiracy of scientists to which Mencken
referred is, more succinctly, a conspiracy of knowledge. It is a conscious
effort to monopolize, manipulate, distort, and exploit knowledge to the most
evil of ends. H.G. Wells called this conspiracy the Technocracy. Aldous
Huxley, who was Wells' protege, more succinctly characterized it as a
scientific dictatorship.

From the dawn of antiquity to the twilight of the twentieth century, the
hidden manipulators of mankind have sought to perfect their methods of
control. These shadowy puppeteers have been assigned numerous appellations.
Perhaps the most common name ascribed to them is the Illuminati, which is
Latin for those who are illumined. Irrespective of whatever name is
assigned to them, some of their members and agentur comprise a portion of
the Technocracy. Other members of the Technocracy are either self-initiates
(i.e., individuals who recognized the esoteric doctrine underpinning their
belief system and initiated themselves into Illuminism) or just foolish
pawns who have helped to transform science into a whore for the elite. The
Technocracy has also been further divided by factionalism within its own
ranks. For instance, there is division amongst various fascist and communist
variants of the Technocracy. However, despite their disagreements, all of
the Technocracy strives towards a singe goal ... a global scientific
dictatorship (i.e., a New World Order).

Before the birth of the Technocracy, the Illuminati's primary combatants in
its epistemological war against humanity were priests and philosophers.
Initially, control was maintained through religious institutions.
Historically, these oligarcbs have been Luciferians, believing themselves to
be the corporeal vessels of an angelic dissident who was unfairly assigned
the defamatory stigma of Satan. For them, Lucifer is an impersonal force
that they must harness in order to consummate their process of becoming
and achieve apotheosis. In truth, they are the pawns of the Adversary
himself. Motivated by an insane and maniacal desire to depose the one true
God, the Illuminati initiated the abortive attempt to construct the Tower of
Babel. Their philosophical scions pursue the same goals today.

Man's estrangement from God, which was the natural consequence of his act of
disobedience in the Garden of Eden, made this form of manipulation even
easier. The clergymen of the elite disseminated propaganda, citing various
deities as the sources of their knowledge. Ignorant of their own Creator,
the masses accepted the state-sanctioned religions of the ruling class. Yet,
this apparatus of control eventually lost its effectiveness. Simply lying to
the masses was not sufficient for the maintenance of their deception. There
always seemed to be a remnant of independent thinkers who would stir up
dissent within the population. Even the polemical trickery of sophists could
not delay the inevitable dissolution of the elite's illusion.

Re: [CTRL] Albert Pike the Plan for Three World Wars

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Albert Pike was certainly a genius, far in excess of the simple-minded 
scrawler of this nonsensical, demonising tripe below.

Lucifer is a myth notoriouslypromulgated by what became the State 
sponsored religion of much of pre and post Medieval Europe, namely Roman 
Catholicism. The spread of the Lucifer myth has its seminal inspiration in the 
Catholic adopted "saint" Jerome.

The word lucifer is found translated as such but once in the bible OT, in 
Isaiah Chapter 14 and is contextually used as a euphemism in a prophetic dirge 
against the "King of Babylon" whose imminent fall is metaphorically likened to 
the "day star" which was also a term for the planet Venus, falling from its 
place in the sky. 

The term has no other meaning in the text than just a plain euphemism of 
the brightness and splendour of the then reigning, and 
nowlong-deadmonarch of Babylon, who was due for a fall.

The ignorant and uninformed among the religious are probably not even aware 
that the term lucifer, bright shining one, is in fact also applied as a 
euphemism for Jesus Christ in the New Testament. 

In the New Testament, in 2 Peter 1:19; Latin Vulgate, "et habemus firmiorem 
propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernaelucenti in 
caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in 
cordibus vestris," is traditionally understood by Christians as a reference to 
Jesus Christ.The King James Bible, renders it as follows: "We have 
also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as 
unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the 
day star arise in your hearts: " 2 Peter 1:19 KJV. 

So there you have it, Jesus is lucifer!

Religious bigots invariably demonise that which they fear or have been 
brainwashed to dread. In this respect,bible-idolaters should be aware that 
their own messiah, whom they supposedly worship,was also demonised by the 
religious politicos of the day. 

According to the Gospels; certain of thedogmatic, 
fanaticalreligionists demonised Jesus Christ by claiming he was demon 
possessed, "There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these 
sayings. And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye 
him"?

This is why in part, Albert Pike, aman of great intellect, who was 
not prepared to be held down by self-righteous religious dogmatists in his 
pursuit of truth and knowledge, is not infrequently smeared by sanctimonious 
religious muckrakers.

The mind-numbing idiocy of this screed is further perpetuated by the 
fantasy that some all-powerful cave troll, "the Devil" somehow prophetically 
engineered three world wars through a handful of alleged agents. 

Apparently the god of this writer-fundi-believer, allegedly omnipotent 
(somebearded sky fairy) and his horde of millions of 
Christian minions were utterly powerless to prevent the prophetic calumnies of 
the horned-one and a just few of his wicked schemers!

One of thereprehensible behaviours of these self-anointed Christians, 
theseliars and demonisers, is to make quotes out of their context. This is 
particularly so and obvious if one actually bothers to check this quote, 
designed to demonise Pike: 

  "The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; 
  for Satan is not a black god... Lucifer, the Light Bearer! Strange and 
  mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the 
  Morning! Is it he who bears the Light...Doubt it not!"
These quotes, crudely made to appear as if in context and within a 
particular closely knit set of paragraphs when examined, are in fact 
lifted out of context from chapter 3 and chapter 13 of Pikes 
Morals and Dogma and out of context! 

That is; an entire ten chapters apart and completely unrelated, but made to 
appear close-knit and as if Pike is some mad Satan-obsessive. 

Pikes workis often simply asking questionsand 
putting forward ideas in relation to the beliefs of various philosophises held 
by groups or individuals. He does not necessarily suggest he is an advocate of 
any one of them.

Pike in fact at some points sounds more pious than many a Christian cleric 
of his day - and even applies a negative connotation to the Lucifer 
myth; yet one he supposedly subscribed to according to the 
nonsenseand utter crock peddled in the posted article below. 

Writes Pike:

  "Hypocrisy is the homage that vice and wrong pay to virtue and justice. 
  It is Satan attempting to clothe himself in the angelic vesture of 
  light. It is equally detestable in morals, politics, and religion; in 
  the man and in the nation. To do injustice under the pretence of equity and 
  fairness; to reprove vice in public and commit it in private; to pretend to 
  charitable opinion and censoriously condemn; to profess the principles of 
  Masonic beneficence, and close the ear to the wail of distress and the cry of 
  suffering; to eulogize the intelligence of the people, 

Re: [CTRL] Prudy Icy Gust Religious Gynophobia

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Probably would be, but I think if we all behaved 
like that, we'd self-annihilate on a universal scale.

I still think it is predominantly the 
Palestinians, Muslim andArab world in general, under the iron grip of its 
mullahs, rulersand various clerics that has prevented progress in the 
Middle-East and around the world.

The failure of the latter to enter the modern and 
more liberalised world has spelt disaster for their nations and peoples. The 
people are not so much down-trodden by Israel as they are kept in chains of 
darkness by their own rulers.

When their leadership condone the sale and 
promotion of timeworn and known anti-Semitichoaxes like the "Protocols of 
Zion,"which Hitler himself employed to promote racial hate; it's one of 
many signs they are not interested in truth or liberation; but rather that they 
share a genocidal-soulwith the Nazis, whom the Grand Mufti sided 
with circa WWII.

Today's Arab anti-Semitism resembles that of 
medieval Catholic Europe and the Nazis, rather than the historic Arab depiction 
of defeated Jews as tragic figures whilst accorded dignity. Perhaps this in 
itself, may be a marker that indicates forces from without may actually be 
promoting much of the Mid-East tensions.


Dave.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Prudy L 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:57 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Prudy  Icy Gust 
   Religious Gynophobia
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  
  In a message dated 11/9/2003 7:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Yet you can't incessantly blame your neighbour for all 
your problems; when you treat your own family in suicidal and psychopathic 
terms. They have dishonoured themselves, committed the most heinous crimes 
against their own conscience, psycho-genocide, and now need a scapegoat to 
expunge that evil guilt within their own 
  societal-hive.
  Well you might if your neighbor kept coming over to your place to cut 
  down your trees, refuse to allow you to exit or enter your driveway, shoot 
  your kids and knock down your house. Then he takes measures to assure 
  that your employer cannot do profitable business, so there's no job and no 
  money to support your family. You might just be a bit torqued. 
  Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is 
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Re: [CTRL] Antony C. Sutton: THE JEWISH-CONSPIRACY THEORY OF THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



- Original Message - 

From: "Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "David Sutherland" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:59 
PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Antony C. Sutton: THE 
JEWISH-CONSPIRACY THEORY OF THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

 No "hard empirical evidence" that Jews were 
behind 1917? Read Stuart Kahan's "Wolf of the Kremlin" about his Uncle 
Kaganovitch whom he lauds. Kahan says 52% of the original 1917 
government were Jews. The big names are well known like Kaganovitch who 
was behind the HOLOCAUST of 10 million or so Ukrainians in 1932-33 and 
Bronstein (Trotsky) of New York. What more do you need for hard 
empirical evidence?  POC 

I think what Sutton alludes to is the notion that 
rather than singling out individuals, or an ethnic group, there is a powerful 
Elite who pull the strings behind the scenes and use individuals as mere pawns 
in their power games and this Elite often singles out Jews as a whole, 
asconvenient and time-worn scapegoatsin an endeavour to hide their 
own nefarious activities.

I don't think any particular ethnic demographic 
is any more or any lesssusceptible to corruption, megalomaniaand 
acts of revenge for what they perceive as past or present 
ills.

What irks people like myself is the incessant 
Judeophobia increasingly pushed by politicised sycophants, as exhibited by some 
on this small forum. Multiply that by ten, a 
hundred or a thousand times; a twisted sizeable voice of hate emerges with naive 
and ready recruits to add to that clamour.

There are quite a number of different and 
competing theories floating about as to who was behind the Russian 
Revolution.The likes of Hitler and Stalin 
both arose in what could be termed the heartlands of Christendom. 

Jews were hardly some ruling elite or had access 
to the socio-religio-politico power structures. Marx was a German 
atheistmoneyed by Vatican-allied Financiers.Both Stalinist-style and 
Hitler-ist powers persecuted the Jews and they became scapegoats; classed 
asConspirators. Much the same kind of crock is again being recycled. The 
Jews were losers all round. 

The Vatican has been the majority winner in all 
of this. The revival of its fiefdoms, the crushing of the Russian Orthodox 
church, persecution of Protestants, Jews, Masons, Liberal movements, the 
establishment of Vatican State, the manipulation of the US against a phoney 
"Cold War" to re-unite the weakened schismatic denominations in an ecumenical 
recognition of the pope as a sovereign spiritual leader, and chiefwarrior 
in the war against the "Jew Commies,"so on and so forth.

In the end, Stalin and those like 
himpersecuted the Jews similarly to Hitler; wanting to eradicate them. It 
is hardly surprising that Jews weren't very happy with their treatment, as I am 
sure neither would anyone else be. Yet we do not focus blame on all Russians for 
the activities of Stalin, of likewise stigmatise all Germans as Hitler-ists, yet 
this is the game being played-out against the Jews.

Before political Jewish Zionism ever emerged, the 
Christian Zionist's were busied with the concept of Zionism, and finally 
manufactured the modern State of Israel. Who owns Israel if not the West, 
particularly the US?Today, Israel and the Jews are being portrayedon 
the global stage again as pariahs. The Jewish cosmopolitan ghetto is 
fastbecoming a paradigm for the worlds first nation-state-ghettoala 
Israel.Wherein Western Apocalypticscreeds predict a fiery 
destruction for its people.

The writing of history is often paved with error 
and open to misinterpretation. This may not necessarily be sinister;but 
simply the product of finite human limitations.Others wish to rewrite 
history, as a type of remedy for past wrongs and present ills.

Blacks and slavery is one such arena. Prior to 
the 1960's it was probably impossible to get an unbiased general American 
History written by whites to provide a fair, investigatory view of what slavery 
and its results meant to black Americans - or, by the same token, of what the 
conquest of the West meant to American Indians. Modern historians, black and 
white have laboured to set this right. 

But, there is no evil ever so great that it 
cannot be exaggerated; and this appears to have been the cherishedproject 
of some hitherto Afrocentrics, who manufactured an omnipotent slaver-devil out 
of the white European. 

The latter of course historically abolished the 
practice, whilst blacks themselves, Africans,Black Muslims whose Prophet 
does not forbid the practice;Arabs who historically dominated the 
trade;continued on.

In the 13-14th centuries, immense slave 
plantations existed in the Mali empire. Every imaginable cruelty was visited 
upon slaves in the antebellum South, including the practice of breeding children 
for sale like cattle; all under the dominion of black rulers, whos

[CTRL] THE BOLSHEVIK CANARD

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



 
an essay by Richard J. Green Web Version 1.3. 
Holocaust deniers and Nazi-apologists often make some very revealing claims 
regarding Jews, Bolshevism, and Stalinism. They often claim that Bolshevism was 
a Jewish movement that resulted in mass murder of Christians on a scale much 
larger than the Final Solution. The implication is that even though the 
Holocaust did not happen, the Jews deserved it and/or the fact that Stalinists 
committed mass murder somehow diminishes the fact that the Nazis and their 
accomplices committed mass murder. Even if the Holocaust-deniers and 
Nazi-apologists had their facts straight, one would have to wonder at their 
reasoning. How does the supposed fact that some Jews committed mass murder 
justify mass murder of Jews? Notwithstanding, this absurd and inhumane 
implication we must, as usual call into question the supposed facts. 

The Crimes of Stalinism 
The crimes of Stalinism are not to be underestimated. That the Stalinist 
regime committed crimes of unprecedented magnitude and inhumanity is beyond 
reasonable debate. The forced collectivizations in Kazakhstan, Soviet Central 
Asia, and, of course the Ukraine 1 
took a horrendous toll: 

The Great Famine of 1932-33 in which 5-10 million lives were lost, 
  was caused in large measure by the chaos of collectivization. Although 
  agricultural production declined in the 1930s, the export of grain increased. 
  Robert Tucker calls forced collectivization a "state-initiated, 
  state-directed, and state-enforced revolution from above." 2,3 
The brutality of the Stalinist regime is incontrovertible. The 
Jewish origin of this brutality, on the other hand is a mendacious claim. 

Was Bolshevism a Jewish movement? 
In a post to the Usenet group alt.revisionism, Jacob Minsky 4 
demonstrates in no uncertain terms the absurdity of such a position. First, he 
quotes Pipes: 

The census of the Communist Party conducted in 1922 showed that 
  only 959 Jewish members joined before 1917. 5 

  Minsky then poses the following question to his 
Nazi-apologist interlocutor: 

Why was the Jewish Labor Bund one of only two political parties 
  (the other one was the small and heavily Jewish PSR, a democratic socialist 
  party) to unequivocally condemn in the Congress of Deputies the Bolshevik 
  seizure of power? 6 

  The typical response of the antisemite is to pick out a few 
prominent Bolsheviks and claim without evidence that they were Jewish. That 
Trotsky was a Jew is true, but antisemites forget to note that he was one of the 
early and strongest critics of Stalin and that this criticism cost him his life. 
Perhaps, a few of the fewer than 1000 Jews who were early members of the Party 
were indeed in leadership positions, but as Aristotle assures us, "One swallow 
does not a summer make." 
Of course, it is ridiculous to blame a single ethnicity for the crimes of the 
Bolsheviks. The fact that Stalin was a Georgian does not make all Georgians 
responsible for the crimes of Stalinism. Some may argue that it is just as 
unreasonable to blame all Germans for the crimes of the Nazis. This point is 
valid: guilt should be assigned individually not collectively. Only those 
Germans who knew about, or should have known about, the Final Solution, 
participated in its execution, or did nothing to stop it when they could have 
done so, bear blame for these crimes. Needless to say, young Germans born after 
the war can only be blameless. 
Antisemites blame Jews for Bolshevism by use of a few half-truths. By this 
method, it could be shown that it was, in fact, Germans who are responsible for 
Bolshevism. It is perhaps just as (un)reasonable to blame Germans for the rise 
of Bolshevism as it is to blame Jews. Marx, after all, was a German atheist. 
Additionally, the political leader of Germany at the time of the Bolshevik 
Revolution was one of the Bolsheviks greatest sponsors. 
German Kaiser sponsors Bolshevism Martin Gilbert has the following to 
say about the German government's support of Bolshevism: 

The Bolsheviks had not expected the Austrian and German 
  Governments to be sympathetic to their revolutionary cause, but policy-makers 
  in both Berlin and Vienna were eager to support the spread of Bolshevism in 
  the hope, not all that far fetched, that the Bolsheviks would undermine stable 
  government in Russia and destroy the warmaking powers of the Tsar. On January 
  7 [1915-RJG] a Bolshevik group in Petrograd distributed leaflets to soldiers, 
  workers, and peasants, calling on them not to pay their monthly rents. That 
  same day in Constantinople, a wealthy Bolshevik Alexander Helphand, approached 
  the German Ambassador to Turkey with the words: 'The interests of the German 
  Government are identical with those of the Russian revolutionaries.' ... 
  Helphand's conversation marked the start of a growing German interest in 
  stimulating revolution in Russia: an interest that was to be intensified by 

Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. LaRouche (Schizoid)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



The light on the hill concept is perhaps 
what Robert Schuller was building with his Crystal Cathedral?

The cathedral kind of represents the 
mini-me version of the "City of God".

Within its walls, the unknowable, 
untouchable god becomes immanent and tangible.

Christian Cathedral-ism is undoubtedly 
reminiscent of Jewish Temple-ism.

The most holy placerecycled as the 
alter, and the outer court was re-pew-edfor the masses.

In the Romish Oligarchy, the 
sacrifice of the Mass continued as the domain of the priests as were the Jewish 
sanctuary services administered by the priests. The Jewish Day of Atonement, 
which occurred once a year was recycled into the more frequent sacrifice of the 
Mass. Roman Catholicism also recycled the 
Empires pantheon of gods and rebadged them asCatholic saints; it is 
thoroughly pagan-ridden. 

The theology of the cathedral spoke to the 
worshiper through the panorama of sight that moved the emotions, rather than in 
rational discourses of philosophical and theological constructs. In many 
respects the neo-Temple itself became the focus of worship, rather than what it 
was meant represent.

The religious, being closer to god, 
always want to the ones who dictate what "proper" city life ought to be. 
In medieval England a city was not considered 
truly "a city" unless it had a cathedral.

Then there was Dante, an angry, bitter 
man. Dante was a victim of a papal land grab in Tuscany by Boniface, a man who 
even contemporary historians say conned his way onto the Papal Throne. The poet 
was forced into voluntary exile and could never returned to his native Florence 
because his return would have meant he would be burned alive at the stake by the 
pope's minions.

That's why Dante wrote his Divine 
Comedy. He took the city-state that he knew and more importantly the rich, 
famous and infamous people of that city-state and teleported them into a 
narrative where he could posit each one of those people into a framework of 
Divine Judgment. The people he liked went to Heaven, while his enemies and the 
truly wicked received their just rewards in the darkest, iciest bowels of 
Hell.
Dante's Divine Comedy is a 
vernacular representation of the theology of the cathedral. It was a road map 
between hell and heaven for the illiterate faithful. It is also Ptolemaic; that 
is, the earth is the centre of the theological universe. The universe exists for 
Humanity. And Man is next to God.
Not until the Reformation did the NT notion 
of the "priesthood of all believers" come to be revived in a substantive way. 
Each individual was responsible for their own salvation and relationship to god. 
No need of priestly mediators.
"Know ye not that ye are 
the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" 1 
Corinthians 3:16
Naturally, this idea was to send the 
Reformation believers on a collision course with thePapal Oligarchy that 
had now socially entrenched itself and developed a symbiotic relationship 
withpowerful fiefdoms and rulers.Basically, the competition 
threatened to put the priests (as mediators between god and man)out of 
business. 
The Reformation sowed the seeds of new 
Liberalising movements which stressed the importance of, and focused on; the 
individual.The war has been raging ever since, and the Temple builders 
have made vast headways in the West.
Instead of lights on a hill, they are the 
prisons and mausoleums of god, erected by human egotists and megalomaniacs 
seeking riches and their own apotheosis.
"All in all it was just a brick in the 
wall.All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.
All in all it's just another brick in the 
wall.All in all you're just another brick in the wall " --Pink 
Floyd.
Dave.

- Original Message - 

From: "Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:38 
PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] [LIFE-GAZETTE] Re: [CTRL] 
Larouche vs. LaRouche (Schizoid)
-Caveat Lector-On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, David Sutherland 
wrote: Until about the age of the Reformation, the Roman Papacies 
idea of "Christian Economics" could be best summarised as Elitist 
parasitism. LaRouche has such a schizoid personality when it 
comes to his thought processes. And if the manner he treats his acolytes 
serves as any indicator, many of whom themselves come across as 
mini-me-LaRouche fascists (making them twice the children of hell?), we 
could take another strip from the Simpson's: Rev 
LoveJoy: "Now Homer, what have we learned about god 
today"? Homer: "The Lord is an angry and revengeful 
man! O Mighty Shmiter, Tell me who to shmite, 
And they shall be shmotten"! Go Homer. 
Dave.Also from The Simpsons, the Movementarian Chant (which applies well 
tobrainwashed Larouchies):The leader is good,The leader is 
great.We surrender our wills,As of this date.Yes Larouche is 
schizoid; also a megalo

Re: [CTRL] UFO Conspiracy Theories, 1975-1990

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Great piece!

Thanks for the link.

Dave.


- Original Message - 
From: "Dale Stonehouse" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:06 AM
Subject: [CTRL] UFO Conspiracy Theories, 1975-1990
-Caveat Lector-Read 
complete chapter of new book here:http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10011/10011.ch05.htmlMichael 
BarkunA Culture of ConspiracyApocalyptic Visions in Contemporary 
America5UFO Conspiracy Theories, 1975-1990Immediately 
after the Oklahoma City bombing in the spring of 1995,mainstream Americans 
suddenly became aware of a radical political subculturein their midst. With 
the arrest of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols and themedia coverage of 
their lives, attitudes, and associations, the public wasabruptly introduced 
to the previously insular world of militias,antigovernment shortwave-radio 
broadcasts, and racist literature. A racistnovel (written by Andrew 
Macdonald, also known as William Pierce), TheTurner Diaries-unobtainable 
through conventional bookstores-became an objectof intense interest once it 
became known that McVeigh had read andrecommended it, and it was revealed 
that the novel contained an episodestrikingly similar to the federal 
building bombing. An avalanche oftelevision, magazine, and newspaper stories 
uncovered the existence ofconspiracy believers obsessed with black 
helicopters and armed against whatthey believed to be an imminent invasion 
by forces of the New World Order.1www.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is 
used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
Available at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 
HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo 
subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To 
UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF CTRL 
[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Om
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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A HREF=""ctrl/A

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Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. LaRouche (Schizoid)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Until about the age of the Reformation, the Roman Papacies idea of
Christian Economics could be best summarised as Elitist parasitism.

The immergence of the Reformation spawned various other movements which
progressively tended to liberalise man and capital, and depose the
superstitions of clericalism and associated superstitions, particularly
nature worship.

It's difficult to imagine anything more scurrilous and useless to human
progress, prosperity and liberty than the parasitic Empire of the Vatican,
and its American counterpart; the Prey-On-You  TV rEvangelists.

India is very proud to be known as the home of the proverbial three hundred
thousand gods.

The people of India were recently facing a deadly plague carried by rats;
hundreds died and the possibility of thousands more dying was very
real. Although the plague can be literally wiped out overnight by getting
rid of the rats, health officials are helpless to act.

According to Hindu mythology, the rats are not to be killed, but to be
worshipped!

A recent Associated Press news report from New Delhi, India described the
scene as follows:

It's a health official's nightmare: Tens of thousands of rats racing
across the floor, feasting on fruit and candy.

At the Karni Mata temple in the desert state of Rajastan, the effort to
stifle the first outbreak of plague in 28 years takes a back seat to an old
Hindu practice-rat worship.

In Hindu mythology, the elephant-headed god Ganesh is accompanied by a rat
whenever he travels. No Hindu worship is complete without an offering to
Ganesh and his small companion.

I watched a David Attenborough Documentary the other week, where in India an
entire city was in the grip of rat worship. Rats, like a plague, scurried
and circled the entire town with the inhabitants joyously giving
homage; praying, petting and giving offerings to their rat gods.

One could not but see the irony of the West, whose bones are being gnawed
and picked by the religionists; rats in cassocks or Versace suits who claim
to represent god.

Gods always behave like the people who created them
Zora Neale Hurston

LaRouche has such a schizoid personality when it comes to his thought
processes. And if the manner he treats his acolytes serves as any indicator,
many of whom themselves come across as mini-me-LaRouche fascists (making
them twice the children of hell?), we could take another strip from the
Simpson's:

Rev LoveJoy:
Now Homer, what have we learned about god today?

Homer:
The Lord is an angry and revengeful man!

O Mighty Shmiter,
Tell me who to shmite,
And they shall be shmotten!

Go Homer.

Dave.





- Original Message -
From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:30 AM
Subject: [LIFE-GAZETTE] Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. LaRouche (Schizoid)


 Larouche has published a book titled Christian Economics. What would be
 the structure and functioning of a Larouche Christian economy for
 http://www.UniverCity.ca atop Burnaby Mountain in BC? A shining city on
 a hill so that we can all see what he is talking about? Or can the SFU
 pagans do it better?

 Zandu Goldbar
 POC Financier

 Lyndon Larouche was right!
 -Homer Simpson

  * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY **
  $$$   Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty$$$



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www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl

[CTRL] AMERICAN DEMOCRACY THE VATICAN

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



My purpose in presenting this brief discussion of selected 
foreign policy initiatives of the Vatican is to show the lengths to which 
"defenders of the Church" in the Reagan administration are willing to go in 
order to "safeguard" the Church. To these "defenders," Vietnam, El 
Salvador, Grenada, and Lebanon are viewed in 
part as "holy wars for the preservation of the Church." 




From- ... AMERICAN DEMOCRACY  THE VATICAN: 


  
POPULATION GROWTH  NATIONAL 
SECURITY 
By Dr. [Phd.] Stephen Mumford 




INFLUENCE OF THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY ON GOVERNMENT POLICY 
page 173-174
For creating the Office of Strategic Services [OSS], the wartime predecessor 
to the CIA, and this special arrangement with the Vatican, 

  General William "Wild Bill" Donovan was decorated in July 1944 by Pope Pius 
  Xll with the Grand Cross of the Order of Saint Sylvester, the oldest and most 
  prestigious of papal knighthoods. This award has been given to only one 
  hundred other men in history, who, "by feat of arms or writings or outstanding 
  deeds have spread the faith and have safeguarded and championed the Church." 
  12 
Donovan did more to safeguard and champion the [Roman Catholic] Church than 
any other American, and he was rewarded for his services with the highest 
[Roman] Catholic award ever received by an American. No doubt, thousands of 
others have striven with their deeds for similar recognition. 
What has this meant in terms of the issues cited in Table 1 ? 

Communism is the greatest threat faced by the [Roman Catholic] Church. The 
Catholic Church and communism cannot coexist. They are both rival absolutists. 
Both indoctrinate their children so as to ensure complete rejection of the 
other. 
Columnist Robert Blair Kaiser who covered the Vatican for Time 
magazine had a conversation with Pope John XXIII in August 1962. 

  "For too long, he [the pope] said, the Church had been waging a so-called 
  holy war against the forces of communism. That was getting us 
  nowhere."13
This holy war continues in Central America today! 
It is believed by some historians that the reason the Vatican aided Hitler 
in his rise to power was so that he could destroy Russian communism. When 
this failed, the Vatican through its defenders called upon the United States to 
stop the spread of Russian communism in Europe and elsewhere. 
A Vatican-inspired hate campaign against the Russians, the greatest hate 
campaign ever endured by Americans, was launched. To this day, like most other 
Americans, I am a victim of this campaign launched during my childhood. 
In August 1984, President Reagan showed his intense hatred of the Russian 
people in his infamous radio microphone test, 

  "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed 
  legislation that would outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five 
  minutes." 
No doubt, this Vatican-inspired hate campaign has influenced Mr. Reagan. 
By this theory, at a cost of hundreds of billions of American dollars, we 
built a war machine for the protection of [Roman] Catholicism. For this same 
reason have we built a nuclear arsenal powerful enough to destroy the world five 
times over and have we seen the Russians match it? This is, I feel, in great 
part the origin of the other great threat to civilization - nuclear war. 
Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent to protect [Roman] Catholicism 
from communism, and one can only conjecture about the ways in which the world 
would have been different if this money had been spent differently and if the 
first requests to the World Health Organization by India for population growth 
control assistance had not been blocked by the Vatican thirty-four years ago. 

Our commitment to saving the [Roman] Catholic govemment in South Vietnam from 
communism [only 5 percent of the people of South 
Vietnam were Catholic,14 causing some observers to 
refer to it as a Vatican colony] can be thought of as a 
result of the activities of the "U.S. Catholic defenders of the Church," largely 
members of the 
CIA. 
The French provided this same service to the Vatican for eighty years 
before they gave up on the holy war in Vietnam.15 

A number of issues cited in Table I, 
including U.S. military support for El Salvador and other Central American 
govemments, the Grenada invasion, and maintaining the status quo in Latin 
America can be seen as Vatican-inspired actions to prop up Catholic 
[Vatican-dominated] governments against popular uprisings. They are the "holy 
wars against communism" mentioned by Pope John XXIII. 
During a May 1984 fundraising visit to New York, the archbishop of Managua, 
Nicaragua, 
Miguel Obando y Bravo, said his campaign represented the best-organized 
opposition in Nicaragua to popular Sandinista government efforts.16 
Another example is Lebanon. 
Most Americans are not aware of the closeness of the Gemayel govemment to the 
Vatican. "Maronite Christians," a minority group in 

[CTRL] Antony C. Sutton: THE JEWISH-CONSPIRACY THEORY OF THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

[David Sutherland]

Title: George W. Bush, Trotskyite, by Justin Raimondo
-Caveat Lector-




  Appendix II
  THE JEWISH-CONSPIRACY 
  THEORY OF THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION
  There is an extensive literature in English, 
  French, and German reflecting the argument that the Bolshevik Revolution was 
  the result of a "Jewish conspiracy"; more specifically, a conspiracy by Jewish 
  world bankers. Generally, world control is seen as the ultimate objective; the 
  Bolshevik Revolution was but one phase of a wider program that supposedly 
  reflects an age-old religious struggle between Christianity and the "forces of 
  darkness."
  The argument and its 
  variants can be found in the most surprising places and from quite surprising 
  persons. In February 1920 Winston Churchill wrote an article— rarely 
  cited today— for the London Illustrated Sunday Herald entitled 
  "Zionism Versus Bolshevism." In this' article Churchill concluded that 
  it was "particularly important... that the National Jews in every country who 
  are loyal to the land of their adoption should come forward on every occasion 
  . . . and take a prominent part in every measure for combatting the Bolshevik 
  conspiracy." Churchill draws a line between "national Jews" and what he calls 
  "international Jews." He argues that the "international and for the most 
  atheistical Jews" certainly had a "very great" role in the creation of 
  Bolshevism and bringing about the Russian Revolution. He asserts (contrary to 
  fact) that with the exception of Lenin, "the majority" of the leading figures 
  in the revolution were Jewish, and adds (also contrary to fact) that in many 
  cases Jewish interests and Jewish 
  places of worship were excepted by the Bolsheviks from their policies of 
  seizure. Churchill calls the international Jews a "sinister confederacy" 
  emergent from the persecuted populations of countries where Jews have been 
  persecuted on account of their race. Winston Churchill traces this movement 
  back to Spartacus-Weishaupt, throws his literary net around Trotsky, Bela Kun, 
  Rosa Luxemburg, and Emma Goldman, and charges: "This world-wide conspiracy for 
  the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the 
  basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible 
  equality, has been steadily growing."
  Churchill then argues 
  that this conspiratorial Spartacus-Weishaupt group has been the mainspring of 
  every subversive movement in the nineteenth century. While pointing out that 
  Zionism and Bolshevism are competing for the soul of the Jewish people, 
  Churchill (in 1920) was preoccupied with the role of the Jew in the Bolshevik 
  Revolution and the existence of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy.
  Another well-known author 
  in the 1920s, Henry Wickham Steed describes in the second volume of his 
  Through 30 Years 1892-1922 (p. 302) how he attempted to bring the 
  Jewish-conspiracy concept to the attention of Colonel Edward M. House and 
  President Woodrow Wilson. One day in March 1919 Wickham Steed called Colonel 
  House and found him disturbed over Steed's recent criticism of U.S. 
  recognition of the Bolsheviks. Steed pointed out to House that Wilson would be 
  discredited among the many peoples and nations of Europe and "insisted that, 
  unknown to him, the prime movers were Jacob Schiff, Warburg and other 
  international financiers, who wished above all to bolster up the Jewish 
  Bolshevists in order to secure a field for German and Jewish exploitation of 
  Russia."1 According to Steed, Colonel House argued for 
  the establishment of economic relations with the Soviet Union.
  Probably the most 
  superficially damning collection of documents on the Jewish conspiracy is in 
  the State Department Decimal File (861.00/5339). The central document is one 
  entitled "Bolshevism and Judaism," dated November 13, 1918. The text is in the 
  form of a report, which states that the revolution in Russia was engineered 
  "in February 1916" and "it was found that the following persons and firms were 
  engaged in this destructive work":
  


  (1) Jacob 
Schiff
  Jew

  (2) Kuhn, 
Loeb  Company
  Jewish 
Firm

  Management:
  Jacob 
Schiff
  Jew

  
  Felix 
  Warburg
  Jew

  
  Otto H. 
  Kahn
  Jew

  
  Mortimer L. 
Schiff
  Jew

  
  Jerome J. 
Hanauer
  Jew

  (3) 
Guggenheim
  Jew

  (4) Max 
Breitung
  Jew

  (5) Isaac 
Seligman
  Jew
  The report goes on to 
  assert that there can be no doubt that the Russian Revolution was started and 
  engineered by this group and that in April 1917
  
Jacob Schiff in fact 
made a public announcement and it was due to his financial influence that 
the Russian revolution was successfully accomplished and in the 

[CTRL] * * * The Anti-American Right * * *

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-


The 
Anti-American Right 
Jack WheelerWednesday, Nov. 5, 2003 
A ToThePoint Report 
Sounds like an oxymoron, doesnt it? Its the Left  liberals, left-wingers, 
socialists, commies, pinkos, the Noam Chomskys and Alec Baldwins and Barbra 
Streisands  that hates America. But the Right  good old flag-waving patriotic 
God Bless America conservatives? How could they possibly be anti-American? It 
sounds ridiculous. 

Yet whatever sense or nonsense it makes, anti-Americanism is seeping into the 
entire conservative movement and is threatening to splinter it into pieces. 

Im not talking about the racist nuts, the white supremacists and militia 
types. Im talking about mainstream heartland conservatives. Howard Phillips, 
head of the famed Conservative Caucus, is one of the founders of the entire 
modern conservative movement in America. He is a dear friend whom I care for 
personally, with whom I worked closely on organizing support for the Reagan 
Doctrine in dismantling the Soviet Empire. 
Yet Howard Phillips writings and speeches now are indistinguishable from 
those of Howard Deans in their outpouring of vitriol and condemnation of 
President Bush, accusing him of war crimes against the people of Iraq. 

Jon Utley, an influential conservative writer and activist of long 
anti-Communist standing during the Cold War, has simply gone around the bend in 
his hatred for everything America does in terms of foreign policy and everything 
the Bush administration does, foreign and domestic. 

The same is true for conservative economist Paul Craig Roberts, whose 
syndicated columns have become so rabid that they seem deranged with hate  such 
as the claim that the Bush administration is organizing genocide for Arabs. 

David Keene, head of the American Conservative Union, organizer of the annual 
C-PAC conference (the largest gathering of conservatives in the country) and 
member of the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association, is now in 
bed with the ACLU in its efforts to demonize Attorney General John Ashcroft and 
prevent the Patriot Act from catching Moslem terrorists. 

Former Congressman Bob Barr, who led the impeachment of Bill Clinton in 
Congress and is also an NRA board member, has become a paid whore for the ACLU, 
and now makes a living bashing Bush and Ashcroft. 

The single most influential conservative activist in Washington, Grover 
Norquist, is being investigated by the FBI for his long-standing connections to 
a network of financiers of Moslem terrorists. 

There are many people in Washington who look upon Grover as the conservative 
movements most valuable asset. His Americans for Tax Reform is in the forefront 
of the entire conservative tax reduction effort. 
Yet ATR shares office space and staff with the Islamic Institute at 1920 L 
Street. The same receptionist answers both groups phones. Grover is the 
founding chairman of the Islamic Institute and got the seed money from 
Abdurahman Alamoudi, just indicted by federal prosecutors for financial 
connections to al-Qaeda terrorists. 

Grover is the conservative movements gatekeeper to Karl Rove and the White 
House, yet he is doing everything he can to demonize John Ashcroft, recently 
appearing on a panel with Alec Baldwin to denounce the attorney general. 
Grover is amazingly smart, talented and influential. The source of his 
pro-Moslem obsession and his passionate defense of radical Moslems linked to 
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda is a mystery to many. 

The source of many conservatives and libertarians hatred for America is, 
however, no mystery: the baneful influence of the founder of the Libertarian 
Party, Murray Rothbard. He is the reason why so much of the entire libertarian 
movement is in bed with the hate-America left, and why so many conservatives are 
getting under the same covers. 

The intellectual parents of the libertarian movement are philosopher Ayn Rand 
and economist Murray Rothbard, whose followers caused an ideological split in 
the movement in the 1970s. Randian libertarians are pro-defense, pro-America; 
Rothbardians are the opposite. Tragically, the latter seized control of the 
Libertarian Party and have not relinquished it since. 

I will never forget the day I canceled my subscription to Rothbard's 
Libertarian Forum newsletter in 1974. The lead editorial was written by 
Rothbard, in which he said: "The Soviet Union is the greatest force for peace in 
the world today." Not once  never  did Rothbard take the side of America in 
any dispute with the Soviet Union. 
I will state it very clearly: Murray Rothbard hated America. He was as 
Platonist as they come, and hated America for not living up to his anarchist 
ideals. 
Rothbard was a black-flag anarchist who argued for the total abolishment of 
all government entirely. Congressman Chris Cox once told me how much he 
regretted the ruinous influence of Rothbard upon the Libertarian Party, 
disenabling it from playing the 

Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. Jesuits Synarchists

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



What the hell are you mewling about now 
you pious Whining Wuzzy McWindbag!

Do you want a shoulder to cry on? 


Someone to hold your hand perhaps? 


What if Salter doesn't want to hold hands 
with Justin(e) Raimondo's Backdoor Bandit!

Are you going to liken Salter to a "Nazi" 
or an "anti-Semite," words you've already used; if he diss's your phoney 
advances.

You fouled-mouthed, scurrilous and 
obnoxious little prat.

McMuttonHead; you came, you bitched, you 
got slapped-down. 

The cause of the latter was of your own 
making and nobody else's. Now you want somebody to mommy you, and pretend that 
your own foul and insidious mouth is not in fact your own worst enemy. You have 
a terminal case of foot-in-mouth.

Here's something infinitely more 
interesting than McMoron's mind-farts.

A fish flatus!
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~bwilson/Herring_sound.wav


Dave.






  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:37 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. Jesuits 
   Synarchists
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  

  Brian,
  
  Your efforts to try to conduct a 
  well-informed, rational, fair and civil discussion on this and other topics 
  have been greatly appreciated.
  
  What is the best way to handle 
  disrupters who are vicious and deranged, and clearly have no interest in 
  dealing reasonably with the facts?
  
  Probably, aftermaking a few failed 
  efforts to engage them in serious discussion,the best course is to 
  ignore them entirely.
  
  These exchanges have nicely demonstrated 
  that it is much better to be the target than the source of irrational verbal 
  abuse and personal attacks. On the net, the attackers will have to live 
  with the consequences of their words forever.
  
  political-research 
  at
  
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/political-research/
  
  is wide open for discussion of these 
  topics, and has a policy of firmly moderating any personal attacks or obvious 
  efforts at disruption.
  
  By the way, I regard any blanket 
  condemnation and negative stereotyping of entire religious and ethnic groups 
  to be a form of unacceptable bigotry, particularly when members of groups are 
  singled out for attack without any regard for what they've said as individuals 
  and how they've conducted their lives.
  
  As a rule it's a good idea to discourage 
  this kind of hate speech in discussion forums, unless one wants the forums to 
  descend into violent chaos.
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Brian Salter 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:37 
AM
Subject: [CTRL] Larouche vs. Jesuits 
 Synarchists
-Caveat Lector-the 
following article is of interest as it is a clear refutation ofrecent 
spurious disinfo claims that larouche is pro-jesuit, and thathis 
opposition to the synarchist movement is a cypher 
foranti-semitism. here, jesuits are identified as being behind 
synarchistefforts to promote the catholic "christero rebellion" in 
mexico, 1929.i rest my case! i don't think it could be any 
clearer. and i will notinsult myself by responding any further to 
obvious slander attacks;however, if anyone is interested in a further 
discussion and critiqueof larouche based on an adult standard of debate 
and constructive,factual analysis, i'm willing to continue sharing 
info.Synarchism, the Spanish Falange,and the Nazishttp://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3029cristero.htmlps: 
another source for the larouche org's views on jesuits (which, tomy 
knowledge, they generally consider to be an infiltrated front 
foranglo-venetian interests within the the various factions of 
thevatican, FWIW) is anton chaitkin's "treason in america". there 
are 13index references for jesuits, all of them very negative and 
critical,and which portray jesuits as allies of oligarchal subversion 
ofamerican democracy over the past two centuries. whether this is 
anaccurate analysis is a separate question, but this is what is on 
therecord.pps: i know full well that in other ways, larouche 
clearly has apro-vatican bias. to be clear, i'm not denying 
that.www.ctrl.orgDECLARATION 
 DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational 
exchange list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. 
Substanceâ?"not soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid 
matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?"with its many half-truths, 
mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is used politically by different 
groups withmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of 
time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the 
validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary of what you 
read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not 
apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 

Re: [CTRL] Larouche vs. LaRouche (Schizoid)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Still got the sooks Brian? I 
note that you and Danny boy seem to have something in common? And now I see the 
grand Wazzock, Schmuck McWinbag feels he has found a "familiar spirit" with you. 
McDaft's advances on you are rather touching, I don't know whether to hurl or 
reach for my box of tissues.Now how can anything an individual like 
yourself, accept by shear fortuitous chance, be taken seriously or 
sincerely?You do not even have the personal character nor integrity to 
admit that it was yourself who from the outset began with the "hysterics" and 
suspicious paranoid allegations, as you do so again within this dogmatic post, 
"i rest my case!" as if it were the end of all 
knowledge.You cannot even come clean, nor have the decency or guts to 
apologise when caught out lying and blaming others for what you yourself engaged 
in the first instance.Character is not something developed in one post, 
or overnight B.S., it's the work of a lifetime. To date, your weak character 
indicatescrappy workmanship.The Christian Messiah said, 
"seek the truth, and the truth shall make you free." What he 
spoke of was not going down to the local synagogue and digging up dirt, or 
manufacturing dirt as people like David Icke do, who use this verse in their 
demonising hogwash; but to do some hard soul-searching to find inner 
righteousness and strength of moral character; to ultimately find the soul and 
passion of Jesus.Aside from exposing his moral duplicity; whether the 
public face of LaRouche says that he is pro- or anti- Jesuit is completely 
irrelevant. 

The point that was made is 
thatLaRouche imbibes the same old anti-Semitic Conspiracy Theories 
originated by the Jesuit propaganda mill and applies them to his own sociopathic 
and megalomaniac ends.

LaRouche employs the 
phraseology of Jesuits like Abbe Barruel, the Jesuit Vatican approved organ 
Civilta Cattolica, and the religio-political hoax 'Protocols of Zion,' he 
says:

  "This 
  Synarchist International (safe to assume heimplies some 
  'International Jewish Cabal') is a continuation of the same 
  Martinist freemasonic cult behind both the 
  Jacobin Terror and Napoleon Bonaparte's rule in 
  France".
As the Jesuit 
Barruel claimed in his crackpot conspiracy diatribes; he attributed a vast 
conspiracy in his published manifesto,"Memoires pour servir a 
l'Histoire du Jacobinisme or Memoirs Illustrating the History of 
Jacobinism,"to theIlluminati with 
Freemasons and the Jacobin's as 
part of their instrumentality to destroy Catholic Europe.He later 
used a forged letter, and claimed that a cabal of Satanic Jews were ultimately 
behind this vast universal Conspiracy.

We have witnessed the revival of the Roman 
Catholic Jesuit Abbe Burruel's, anti-Semitic Jewish-Masonic-Jacobin  et al, 
Conspiracy Theory via politicaldupes on this very forum. 

Mostly,via Shill McDaft from regurgitated 
articles fromhis bum bandit the shrill Justin Raimondo, a creature of the 
Jesuits,who himself was inspired by the holy man of Jesus Paul Craig 
Roberts, whose "neo-Jacobin" conspiracy,demonising the US 
Administrationlike reckless, godless Jacobins, was plagiarised from 
the Catholic University of America's Claes Ryn. So again, we 
trace the hand of clericalism and its allies and discover that not much has 
changed in there lovely demonising methods.Furthermore, 
"Conspiracy Theory," predominantly since about the time of the 
Enlightenment, andsince Science and Rationality began to take root in the 
pre and neo-modern world; has been a fabulously success replacement for 
Clerico-Fascists, Nazis and the Ultra-Rights,asa "Devil" 
motif; an instrument of propaganda to demonise enemies. 
Hitler himself fervently 
believed in the Conspiracy hoax 'Protocols of Zion,' and used it demonise his 
foes.

Personally, I often employ Jesuitism and 
Vaticanism as iconic effigies. Like a Lab skeleton, using it to flesh out a 
particular religio-socio-politico non-niceties and malevolence. Individually I 
know these men and they are top-notch in the brain dept. But certainly 
clericalism historically, has had and its screwy and malignant side. 


Religious Orders are adaptive. 


They are chameleon-like by nature, trained 
to infiltrate and meld as far as possible with the cultural 
surround.

Take but one recent Academic 
example:

Manufacturing 
Confucianism: Chinese Traditions and Universal 
Civilization (Duke University Press), by Lionel M. 
Jensen:

  Lionel M. Jensen 
  reveals how in China, the Jesuits, as sixteenth and seventeenth-century 
  Western missionaries used translations of the ancient ru tradition to invent 
  the presumably historical figure who has since been globally celebrated as 
  philosopher, prophet, statesman, wise man, and 
  saint.



This is a 
magnificent example of the power and will of the Jesuit Order to assimilate the 
religio-socio-political paradigm of a host nation in order to move it toward 
their own preferred ideology, 

Re: [CTRL] Chip Berlet's apologist defence of ADL spying on US citizens

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



It seems your post came up right after I posted my "limit" for that day; 
when I read it, I felt an unusual Prick stabbing mid the thoracic 
vertebrae.

But in any case; whatever buys me a beer is fine. 

BUUURP!

My Portfolio's very good. Thanks for asking.

And how's yourstash of Reichsmarks doing these days down at the el 
Banco de La Argentina?

Dave.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:48 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Chip Berlet's 
  apologist defence of ADL spying on US citizens
  -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/6/2003 8:32:30 PM 
  Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Thanks for the laughs!So do you collect in shekels or Aussie dollars? What 
  is the exchange rate anyhow?I suspect you have the up-to-the-minute stats 
  in that department.Bill. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER 
  == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 
  soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with 
  its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used 
  politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout 
  the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to 
  the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you 
  read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A 
  HREF=""ctrl/A 
   To 
  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
  [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF 
  CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Om 
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=""ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Prudy Icy Gust Religious Gynophobia

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Palestinians have problems, but so do many other 
peoples have severe hardships. The suffering of one is bad enough, let alone so 
many; that it becomes so incomprehensible.

Yet you can't incessantly blame your neighbour 
for all your problems; when you treat your own family in suicidal and 
psychopathic terms. They have dishonoured themselves, committed the most heinous 
crimes against their own conscience, psycho-genocide, and now need a scapegoat 
to expunge that evil guilt within their own societal-hive. 

You can fake holding a suicide-bomber as a 
hero-martyr only for long. Eventually your mind will crumble, as you live with 
such lies. The Jews lived forhundred of years under the conditions you 
enunciate, but generally didn't go around blowing their neighbours to pieces; 
but rather tried to get on with them and improve on the little they had. In 
fact, even in the recent controversial Mahathirspeeches, he said a similar 
thing; and hence the Judeophobes didn't quite get the mileage they'd hoped for 
from his talks.

Perhaps many Palestinians don't want peace, 
because peace is just too hard.

For starters, peace might mean higher education 
and the use of your brain to resolve problems instead of a quick-TNT explosive 
grab on CNN. It might mean dissin some patriarchy, and giving a woman a life 
rather than life as a breeding laboratory for the next suicide 
bomber.


Religious, clerical terror against women is probably the oldest 
Gynophobia.

Woman has had to cover-up; her arms, her legs, her beauty, from head to 
toe. She cannot wear pants, but her guru or priest may slip on a skirt. Her head 
will be shaved, or she will be forced to cover her head or her hair.

Her rape will be legitimized and sanctified by wedlock. 

Her master will be her father, her husband, brother and even her own son. 
Her worth will be less than that of the family dog or swine.

As a 
sign of holiness, she will have to immolate herself at her husbands 
funeral.

Satan is her secret lover, whilst her husband openly takes a whore. 
Pregnancy is not an option for her, but a duty. Whether in metaphor, or by 
actual physical means, she will carve out her sexual organs.

She is banished from holy sites, lest she pollute them and its pious male 
devotees. 

She learns that as god is to man, so man is to woman, as she "dwells in 
terror of the living god," so she does of living man. She must nod, bow, 
genuflect, kneel, kowtow and prostrate herself. She must avert her eyes. 


She is told she has no soul. Paradise awaits her 
only as an appendage to man; his rib, or his odalisque.

If she dared to question, she was excommunicated, declared lapsed, a 
heretic, apostate, damned, doomed, expelled, ostracised, Satan's harlot, 
daughter of hell; tortured, flogged, beaten, drowned, hanged, strangled or set 
aflame.

If she paid all-homage to 'the faith,' and offered her body 
andbeing as a complete living sacrifice, she gained vicarious honour and 
sainthood; a living emissary, a holy vessel; because she served to facilitate 
Man’s entrance into the Kingdom of 
Heaven.

Dave.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Prudy L 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 2:32 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Icy gust cools 
  Israel's relations with EU - from an ICY QUEEN ...
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  
  In a message dated 11/6/2003 9:12:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  One cannot even begin to imagine what life would 
be like in such a society. How can the likes of some Palestinians, who have 
no respect for their own lives, and vicariously through no respect of their 
children's lives; possibly respect their neighbours lives much less the 
social welfare of their neighbour. And if they are notmaddeningly 
bombing the Israeli's;they are busy killing one 
  another.
  First one must imagine what life is like for Palestinians--no education, 
  no security, no jobs, no land, constant harrassment and humiliation--nothing 
  to look forward to except death--so strapping on a bomb and going out with a 
  bang must not seem like such a bad thing to a man who has no prospectsin 
  his future. Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  
  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 
  soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with 
  its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used 
  politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout 
  the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to 
  the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you 
  read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  

[CTRL] On Shill McDunce's Anti-American Fascist Shemale Justin(e) Raimondo

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



What Raimondo Really 
MeantBy Stephen Schwartz 
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 21, 2003
Dennis Justin Raimondo, proprietor of the antiwar.com website, 
has reveled in his status, after September 11, as 
Americas most 
exquisite Jew-baiter. This was the individual who, almost single-handedly, 
conflated a mass of disconnected rumors into the theory that 
Israel stood 
behind the atrocities of that terrible day. Since then, this 
Dennis-the-wannabe-Menace has remained best known for selling that product, 
while traveling back and forth across a no-mans-land of neofascist 
bizarrerie. He also has enjoyed a 
brief notoriety as an inciter to mutiny in the armed forces, warning that 
American soldiers should not die for 
Israel. 

Fascism and, especially, Jew-baiting, are distinguished from other 
political phenomena by their unvarying banality. There are no new forms of 
Jew-hatred, and its purveyors must therefore endlessly troll through the dustbin 
of history, seeking castoffs to recycle. Dennis Raimondo has added to this the 
role of historical vampire, digging up long-buried corpses with names like John 
T. Flynn and Garet Garrett  justifiably forgotten partisans of American defeat 
in World War II  hoping to breathe the semblance of life into them to further 
his career as the rescusitator of the America First cult. Necrophilia is his 
eroticism of choice. 
But he engages in numerous other forms of perverse political 
quackery. One fairly recent example was his attempt to exploit the past writings 
of the historian Ronald Radosh on isolationism, while denouncing Radosh as a 
Bolshevik, even though Radosh departed from the radical left a quarter century 
ago. Another, in which he has 
numerous imitators (including his mentor Patrick Buchanan and Buchanans 
longtime companion Robert Novak) consists in the mendacious use of a brief and 
essentially innocuous 1996 document on Israeli security, A Clean Break, 
claiming it is a virtual blueprint for the 
U.S. effort 
against Saddam. Note that Raimondo never actually quotes from the document, 
because A Clean Break deals with 
Iraq in a 
complicated context that does not lend itself to slurs against the Bush 
administration. 
A 
Clean Break recommended action against 
Iraq to affect 
outcomes in 
Syria and 
Lebanon. 
Syria, although 
ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship, maintains diplomatic relations with the 
U.S. and has 
forcefully assisted us in the fight against al-Qaida. The Lebanese threat to 
Israel 
diminished considerably after the Jewish state withdrew its forces from the 
south of that country in 2000. Nevertheless, Raimondo and other conspiracy 
junkies continue to spout about A Clean Break, and even falsely assert that 
deputy defense secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz coauthored it, although his name does 
not appear there.
Dennis Raimondo is not an intellectual, or a journalist, or even much 
of a writer. He seems to consider himself a revolutionary, who believes he can 
gain the attention he craves, and the mass adulation he dreams of, by imitating 
the most repellent methods of the Stalinists. These consist of reducing 
everything to the lowest personal innuendoes and insults, and promoting obscure 
figures like Murray Rothbard, as canonical sources. This method dates back to 
the epoch when the followers of Joseph Stalin defamed their leftwing critics by 
labeling Trotsky an agent of Hitler and Mikado. I will deal lightly, for now, 
with such other Raimondian habits as the amalgam of Milosevic, mass killer of 
Muslims, and Saddam, purported champion of Muslims, in his pinup catalogue of 
beefcake brutes, or his incessant use of Trotskyite as a slur. I am a former Trotskyist, and would 
rather be known as a Trotskyite than a Saddamite, any day of the week.
Dennis Raimondo has refined political and moral inconsistency, if not 
pure hypocrisy, to a level that is almost unique. He has smeared me for being a 
neoconservative and, at the same time, a defender of unions, but the 
neoconservative movement always included union leaders. I have never defended 
strikebreaking, and cannot be accused of ever supporting union-busters. By 
contrast, Dennis sees nothing peculiar in being a flamboyant gay liberationist 
while fronting for Buchanan, one of 
Americas 
loudest gay-bashers. He has 
attacked me many times for having become a Sufi, and acquired a Muslim 
name. Yet I do not use my Islamic 
name publicly or deceptively, while he calls himself Justin even though he is 
really Dennis, for reasons that need not be elaborated. 
Dennis Raimondo and his cohort would like Americans to believe that 
their affection for people like Milosevic and Saddam has nothing to do with 
their own natures. That is, they claim to merely oppose empire, and stand for 
an America that 
stays out of other nations business. 
But Raimondo seems particularly obsessed with protecting the sovereignty 
of the enemies of 
Israel. 
In 
his slow-dance with destiny, Dennis 

Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM LaRouche

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM 
   LaRouche
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  
  
  From: 
  David 
  Sutherland 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:17 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM 
   LaRouche
  
use to implicate the 
so-called "neo-cons," a now well-worn term for Jews in Judeophobe 
circles
  Ah, now we have it: anyone who 
  disagrees with the neoconservatives is a "Judeophobe," that is, an 
  anti-Semite. This is a classic example of the anti-Semitism smear being 
  employed as the first refuge of the mentally challenged.
  
Really 
Shorn McNutz! 

You're 
quite the half-wit McDudd. Most Judeophobes like yourself have a number of 
associated phobias. One of your other phobias is the fear of ever possessing 
or coming in contact with a brain of your own.

You 
don't really have anything; except a head full of sawdust and a desire to 
prattle pious nonsense at the first hint of any little skerrick you thought 
you could dredge up in your trawl-to-smear campaign. 

However, 
all your trawling made plain was that there are things in existence that are 
lower than amphibian shit,namely theYawn McDafts whocrawl 
out from their sub-aquatic, subterranean hate-holes every so 
often.
 
If you'd actuallybothered to read, 
something you obviously cannot do,the statement ends with the 
phrase "in Judeophobe circles,"something one would think even a dickhead such as yourself 
would have noticed and no doubt did, but because you are so full of your own 
rhetorical gobshyte, ran foaming at the mouth at any husk he could stick his 
snout into, to defend his inane and ridiculous Juedophobic Conspiracy 
Theories.

Dave.
  
   
  
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM LaRouche

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Salter" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:28 
PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM  
LaRouche

-Caveat Lector-an email that begins with a 
pointless and puerile attack on my choiceof typing without capitals, 


Well, firstly we should get 
the facts in perspective rather than rely on your lies.

I do not ever recall posting 
or commenting on any of your posts in any shape or form prior to your silly 
abusiveand paranoid prattle in response to one of 
mine.

It was you, playing the pious 
phoneyand self-righteous hypocrite, that began with the "pointless and 
puerile attack" from the outset in your first paranoid, infantile and smeary 
responses to one of my posts. 

Now you wet your pants 
and cry foul to mommy because someonedared to slap you down and expose 
your sanctimonious B.S.

and ends with a long quote from ahatchet-piece 
by chip berlet, a known disinfo asset and apologist forthe US ruling 
establishment, pretty much shows where you're coming from.

Who 
says it's a hatchet job?Who says its disinfo? YOU? That's too 
funny!

From what I've seen of you in just these couple of posts, those 
are epithets from someone who is basically psychologically projecting his own 
actions onto others.The rest is, as was the first, 
just stupid twaddle of a disturbed paranoiac trying to blame someone else for 
what he himself engages in.

And 
we all know we're "you're coming from," but's probably best you keep a plug in 
it, or get a colostomy bag.

Dave.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] Chip Berlet's apologist defence of ADL spying on US citizens

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Thanks for the laughs!

This snotty, humorous little piece, filled with angry little nitpickers and
their invective, petty bickering, pointing accusative fingers at each other,
compares to a flee on a camels back in dissin' Berlet, in comparison to the
elephantine reportage of Berlet and what he discovered, uncovered and
exposed about the psycho LaRouche cult.

Dave.



- Original Message -
From: Brian Salter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:17 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Chip Berlet's apologist defence of ADL spying on US citizens


-Caveat Lector-

an early report on a case which didn't end up well for the ADL...

The ADL Spy Probe

from Alexander Cockburn's Beat the Devil, a bi-weekly column in The
Nation.

May 31, 1993

There have been fears that political pressure might squelch the case
against the Anti-Defamation League spies being built by the San
Francisco District Attorney, Arlo Smith. But the San Francisco
Examinerfor May 11 carried a story by Dennis Opatrny and Scott Winokur
reporting that top officials of the ADL are the ultimate targets of
the San Francisco district attorney's domestic spying investigation.
Such officials include the ADL's New York-based director of research,
Irwin Suall. Meanwhile, the ADL's strategy is to link critics of its
spy operation with neo-Nazis and with the World Trade Center bombers.

I note here a story on the scandal in The Village Voice for May 11 by
Robert Friedman. Since Friedman once wrote The Nation complaining I
had credited another reporter for facts he had unearthed, I must say
that I have a serious problem with the way he avoids giving credit to
anyone but himself.

Last July, in Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, Gregory
Slobodkin broke the story of AIPAC's smear operation in a story titled
The Secret Section in Israel's US Lobby That Stifles American Debate.
On August 4, Friedman did a Voicestory,  The Israel Lobby's
Blacklist. Nowhere in Friedman's story was it stated that Slobodkin
had already published an account of his experiences at AIPAC.

In his May 11, 1993, piece on the ADL, Friedman was still boasting that
AIPAC's spy operation was disclosed last summer in the `Voice,' which
it wasn't. And he never thanks his sources or acknowledges the efforts
of people long laboring on the story, such as journalists in San
Francisco or ABC-TV's James Bamford, who discovered the Benjamin
Epstein letter from which Friedman quotes without tipping his hat to
the journalist who got the document first.

In fact, Friedman relies uncritically on the statements of ADL spy Roy
Bullock to the FBI and to San Francisco police, as though they were
proven facts. And in the end he lets off the ADL with a light stroke,
courtesy of researcher Chip Berlet, who says the ADL is a group whose
leaders, at least, consistently defend the actions of Israel against
critics, which ... is entirely appropriate and is a group that
maintains an information-sharing arrangement with law enforcement.
Again, there is nothing wrong for a group to do that. Berlet argues
that it was some malign synergy between such ADL functions that led to
trouble. In effect, he OK's the ADL's venomous smearing of critics as
anti-Semites and then makes the amazing statement that there's nothing
wrong with illegal acquisition and dissemination of privileged
government information about individuals. This is the basis of the
class-action suit against the ADL in California.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?not soap-boxingâ?please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsâ?is used politically by different groups
with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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A HREF=http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A

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Om

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different 

[CTRL] DS on Justine? NO! It's Shill McDudd with Justine ON Top.

[David Sutherland]

id not.

You really are a complete flake 
McDudd.

Dave.


The Holy Baloney Trinity:


 


The Fagging Saint J 
Raimondo.Pope 
Pious Paul Craig Roberts: Holy Conservative man of 
Jesus!The little Holy 
Messenger:
Should he change his name to 
Justin(e)?  But I don't 
see a fag in Roberts' 
mouth?Saint 
Shill McDudd, the Daft? 
Sources do say he cyber 
cross-dresses 
 Well, as a conservative man of god, he probably despises 
fags? From the 
"Bleeding Hearts Society"?
 posts as "Wendy"on the 
Internet?Justin(e)s 
Toy-Boy?








  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] David Sutherland on 
  Justin Raimondo
  -Caveat Lector-  
  
  

  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
David 
Sutherland 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:28 
AM
Subject: [CTRL] Shill McDudd: Rummy's 
Ruminations-Arre But a Dummies DumDuminations


  
Clearly, Justin Raimondo is a 
deliberate obfuscation-ist, a disinformation-ist and cannot be trusted to 
give anyone a complete and truthful picture of events. 

  You've been challenged several 
  times now to come up with some specific examples of misstatements made by 
  Justin Raimondo, and come up empty-handed. It's safe to assume that you 
  never received the kind of education which gives one the tools to engage in 
  rational discourse and debate.
  
  You have, however, helped 
  provide some insights into the kind of mentality which supports the Bush 
  administration, the Iraq War, the neoconservatives, and the Likud extremists 
  in Israel. Thanks for the valuable service.
  
  You've repeatedly attacked and 
  abused Raimondo for his Roman Catholicism even though Raimondo himself never 
  mentions his religious beliefs in his writings.
  
  Were you brought up in any 
  particular religion? What is the religion, or religions of your 
  parents? Perhaps you can shed some light on why your mind is disfigured 
  by so much fanatical hatred for all Roman Catholics, a prejudice which is 
  indistinguishable from Nazi hatred of all Jews.
  
  What force or factors 
  sowarped your personal development and filled your soul with so much 
  bigotry and malice?
  
  Here is Raimondo's latest 
  column. Do you care to try to take it on any *specific* and 
  *substantive* points? Do you know how to read, analyze and rationally 
  argue with texts, or are you just an abuse bot?
  
  Do you support sending $87 
  billion of American tax monies for nation building in Iraq, when local 
  communities in the United States are under such severe financial stress and 
  can't pay for their own social services? Why?
  
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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A HREF=""ctrl/A

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behindheadlin1d.gifroberts.jpgsacredbtn.jpg

Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND VIETNAM LaRouche

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Brian Salter 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:14 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] IRAQ AND 
VIETNAM
  
actually (should A), and should've usesd a 
commalarouche (should be 
LaRouche) and his researchers quite vigorously denounce 
a(A)bbe b(B)arruel as a fraud [*], and are 
definitively anti-j(J)esuit. 
they also sideline right-wing i(I)lluminati theories in general. 
e(E)very time i'(I)ve come across a mention of w(W)eishaupt / i(I)lluminati in larouche (LaRouche) -related writings, i'(I)ve found it to be outright 
dismissive.n(N)ice try, 
no cigar. w(W)hat are you trying 
to accomplish by piling bald-faced lies on top of your obviously hysterical 
prejudices?
  
  So 
  what are you trying to accomplish besides poor spelling, punctuation and 
  grammar and appealing to paranoiacs with someschizo smear about sinister 
  motives at play? It seems to be a favourite piece of rhetorical gobsyte used 
  by every loopy paranoiac on this forum when someone disagrees with their pet 
  delusions; it always the devil come to play when you overthrow thier favourite 
  hobby cart. 
  
  Now if 
  you could yank that "cigar" of yours from of its usual place, in your 
  butt-hole; just for one second:-
  
  The 
  context of the LaRouche inclusion was the "idiom-ology" in reference to the 
  "Sons of Satan" where the nutballs of LaRouche-shyte-ism (see my other 
  postsagainst theMcDudd-ites et al)use to implicate the 
  so-called "neo-cons," a now well-worn term for Jews in Judeophobe 
  circles;and wherein LaRouchedescribed senior members of the Bush 
  administration as "Children of Satan". 
  
  So 
  what "hysterical prejudices" do you speak of? Why have you not spoken out 
  against the sewer-flood of anti-American, or anti-Jew prejudice that runs 
  daily here? What has dragged you from stone-cold silence into sanctimonious 
  outrage now? 
  
  Are 
  these "prejudices" perhaps just against your own hysterical, superstitious 
  andirrational prejudices perhaps? 
  
  Aside 
  from being a pious dimwit; what other hysterical prejudices do you 
  have?
  
  Begin LaRouche twaddle: 
  
"Judaism is ideological abstraction of the 
secular life of Christianity's Jew, the Roman merchant-userer who had not 
yet evolved to the state of Papal enlightenment, a 
half-Christian, who had not developed a Christian conscience." 

  Whatever LaRouche publicly claims, clearly he is not anti-Jesuit, and 
  his rants are rooted in the old literature and propaganda of the Vatican and 
  its multitude of religious Orders, including the Society of Jesus. This type 
  of tripe runs along the same Judeophobic nonsense that Jesuit Abbe Barruel 
  spread, in his pious demonising codswallop of Jews, Masons and other Liberal 
  movements.
  
  On the 
  same stigmatising level of the RC Jesuit Burruel; who called Weishapt a 
  "human devil," we had LaRouche recently demonise Dick Cheney 
  in the following headline, "... ON CHENEY, THE 
  BEAST-MAN". 
  
  See 
  for example, the Australian LaRouche shills, Citizens Electoral 
  Council of Australia article:
  
http://www.cecaust.com.au/press/release.asp?dir=natd=21-10-2003
  One of 
  the clerics favourite devils isthe German philosopher Nietzsche; who, in 
  the above articleis bought to bare as a smear-figure, supposedly to 
  enunciate the supra-human level of alleged evil (i.e. the Devil), latent 
  within Dick Cheney. 
  
  To 
  misinterpret Nietzsche in such a myopic manner; one doubtsthat any of 
  these ignorant little fascist twerps have ever read one of Nietzsche's works, 
  much less could interpret one; or even spell his name minus a spell-checker 
  for that matter. 
  
  The 
  reason, but one of many, that clerics despise Nietzsche, is that he so 
  marvellously, acerbically and wonderfully, say as in "The 
  Antichrist," chastised the enormous and endemic hypocrisy of 
  Christendom, that every time the holy harp-pluckers hear or read his name; 
  they fall into apoplectic fits. 
  
  Of 
  course, when these mini-me-LaRouchites have Father and Fuhrer LaRouche doing 
  all their thinking for them; why should any of them bother doing any thinking 
  for themselves.
  
  In any 
  case, whilst I appreciate the weak-mindedflurry from "Brian Salter," he 
  just ain't home when the lights are on.
  
  Clearly, the sentiments, expressions and the well-known LaRouche 
  Judeophobia could have been taken almost straight from the "Protocols 
  of Zion" or the Jesuits fanatic Conspiracy Theories like that of 
  Jesuit Abbe Barruel's;or even 
  the Jesuits virulent anti-Semitic expressions widely spread via the Vatican 
  approved organ of the Jesuits,"La Civilta Cattolica," 
  that also railed against Liberal, Humanist, Secularist and Enlightenment 
  movements that sought to lead society away from religious intolerance, 
  

[CTRL] Pope Thinks Bush is Antichrist!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



The political magazine, Counterpunch , 
reported that people close to the Pope say the Pontiff "wishes he was younger 
and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the 
person prophesized in Revelations". (sic)*And, according to journalists 
close to the Vatican, the Pope is also concerned that the 9-11 attacks were 
known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. 

There is a perception within the Roman 
Catholic hierarchy that a coup d'état was implemented, giving Bush 
near-dictatorial powers. Full story:www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html*There is no such bible book as "Revelations," it's 
correct name is the book of Revelation.Reading this superstitious tripe 
one gets a better perspective where much of the anti-Bush propaganda is 
manufactured. President Bush has obviously rocked the Vatican's ecumenicist boat 
mid-stream as the Vatican was stretching it's hand across the religious divide 
to assimilate Islam.Bush is also accursed by religionists because he 
dared to once tell the worlds most infallible man in drag, the WWII era Zyklon B 
colporteur; that he was "wrong".

Historically, the Vatican and her allies 
have been the pre-eminent manufacturers of some "devil"iconographyto 
stigmatise their opponents, and likewise also engaged in the widest promotion of 
"Conspiracy Theory" type literature as a propaganda tool to demonise its 
opponents.

Dave.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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A HREF=""ctrl/A

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[CTRL] Icy gust cools Israel's relations with EU - from an ICY QUEEN (Linda S. Heard) Who Deliberately Fails to HEAR

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Not too sure what the 
Parliamentary-styleapproval means? Was it an approved Party-line speech 
then Prudy! Seems so.

Europe is in the grip of 
anti-Americanism.And you're not sheik enough if you're not anti-Bush; 
evenat the camel auctions.

Hence, one would imagine that any State that has 
received a fair amount of favourable US attention and is consistently in the 
headlines as a potent US ally, could be anything but disliked in parts of 
Europe.

Furthermore,there is the fact that Europe 
is the historic homeland of the Jewish-killing Nazis,the Inquisition, 
Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox anti-Semitism; its hardly surprising that 
Israel would ever come up trumps in any Euro-pop contest.

Certainly Europe has nothing to boast of nor can 
be a credible finger-pointer; and whilst they talk of a 'European Unity' and 
peace, each petty European State has in effect become more Isolationist and 
Xenophobic. When they're not a war with one another, or committing terrorist 
acts against a friendly country half-a-world away, like the cowardly French 
have, they're busied looking forsome "outsider" scapegoat for their 
problems.

If the survey is accurate, it seems Europe, 
contrary to its own hoopla of progress and enlightenment isin fact in 
retreat,and slouching toward its old feudal and mediaeval miasmas and 
demons. And of course, collective humanity always needs some bogeyman or devil 
to scapegoat its own personal, corporate, religious and national 
ills.

Moreover, the writers allegation that Israel; "... a country, which has 
200-plus nuclear missiles pointed at its neighbours ..." really shoots her own 
arguments in the foot. If the Jews were all the crazies,emotionally and 
intellectually unstableevil monsters she would have us believe; what has 
prevented them fordeploying these weapons, if notdecency, good 
judgement and a self-restraint unmatched by Israel's crazed and suicidal 
critics, possibly even its US ally.

The writer also remonstrates, "Mahathir may have 
been wiser to have addressed his remarks towards "Israelis" rather than "Jews" 
..." well pity about Mahathir's Freudian Slip, and telling the truth, his truth 
like it is; something the writer wants to conceal if at all humanly 
possible.

In the writers obfuscation; she is essentially 
saying that hiding her own Judeo-prejudice as political anti-Israel speak, is 
far more sophisticated than Mahathir's open anti-Semitic laden sentiments. 


She is quite okay with the latter's 
anti-Semitism; just not the way that he soblatantly manifests 
it;that's her point. Her concern is not about blatant anti-Semitism, but 
it's poor semantics lack of sophisticated delivery.

The finale to the piece reeks with a certain 
sanctimony,"... the scales have already fallen from our eyes and we 
(Europeans) – or most of us anyway - are no longer listening" ... aside from 
being reminiscent of Goebbels-speak, it reminds one of St Paul and his 'Road to 
Damascus' experience. Paul's scaly-eyed 
blindness was latermade well; after his encounter with Jesus the 
Messiah.But St Paul's blindness was not about his Jewish brothers, but 
about Jesus Christ.

And after having read St Paul, one cannot 
comprehend how an overtly prejudiced writer could possibly appeal to St Paul's 
conversion experience as applying to a Europe which is secular, and wears 
religion as a sociallyapproved fashion statement. Indeed,St Paul 
claims he would have rather surrendered his own life lest one of his Jewish 
brethren should perish.

Whilst the writer appeals to St Paul, one doubts 
greatly that she would appeal to St Paul.

Paul's vision of, "... neither Jew nor Gentile 
...,"was a blue-print for a common and shared humanity. Not the divisive pseudo-religiosity of an "us and them" 
paradigm. The article reeks of the latter. It specifically trawls forany 
husk or divisive miniscule; "a poll" as an introductory device, to then further 
club the Jews with.

The fact that she no longer listens, shuts out 
other voices, voices that do not appeal to her prejudiced palate, is more 
indicative of the writersjaundicethan the central figures in her 
article whom she deliberately set out to demonise yet who have by and large 
shown super-human courage, reserve and restraint, and against seemingly 
insurmountable historic odds.
Dave.






  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Prudy L 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:04 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Icy gust cools 
  Israel's relations with EU (Linda S. Heard)
  -Caveat Lector- 
  Hear, hear! Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER 
  == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 
  soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with 
  its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used 
  politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread 

Re: [CTRL] Talking Fag Dolls

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

For a minute I thought you were hammering this forum, with it's
ever-fairy-presence of the mewling and screeching Ms Justine Raimondo.

Dave. :-)



- Original Message -
From: iNFoWaRZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:36 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Talking Fag Dolls


-Caveat Lector-

Holiday Special!
Get your Talking Fag Dolls now, while you can!
They have taken Australia by storm and are now available in Babylon America.
There's guaranteed to be a Cabbage Patch Doll type brawl in the aisles of
Walmart as idiotic parents clamor and fight to get the last Talking Fag
Dolls off the shelves.
Great for kids!
Besides being great fun, the Talking Fag Dolls can be a wonderful learning
tool to teach those youngsters about AIDS, Hepatitis C, and Intestinal
Worms.
Your Children will squeal with glee as they pull the string to hear their
Talking Fag Doll say: Thay there thilly, it'ths never to early to dethide
your thexual orientation.

A great stocking stuffer!
There's a limited supply, so hurry and get your Talking Fag Doll Today!
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7735779%255E662,00.html

and:

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7736070%255E2765,00.html


-iNFoWaRZ
Only 39 Shopping Days left until Sun-god Day.


Information Warfare:  Slapping reality back into the pathetically enslaved,
dumbed-down, hypnotized, brain-washed, and brain-dead American masses.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?not soap-boxingâ?please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsâ?is used politically by different groups
with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] The Antiwar Movement's Nazi Connection

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-


The Antiwar Movement's Nazi ConnectionBy Ben 
JohnsonFrontPageMagazine.com | April 25, 2003In the run-up to 
the liberation of Iraq, conservatives were tempted to say the entire anti-war 
movement represented nothing more than a conglomeration of Stalinists, 
Castroites and Islamists. Such a description would not do justice to the "peace" 
movement: it would omit the role of vicious anti-Semites. FrontPage Magazine 
recently exposed the neo-Nazi Bill White's Overthrow.com ("The Bottom of the 
Barrel"), but giving White a run for his bile is one Bruce Alan "Vincent" 
Breeding, a professional anti-Semite and sometime Satan-worshiper whose life's 
purpose lies in fighting the Jews. "No War for Israel" (NoWarforIsrael.com), the 
love child of Breeding and recently incarcerated Klansman David Duke, 
demonstrates the disturbing continuity and convergence of neo-Nazis, Islamists 
and the anti-war movement.Resume of HateIn his mid-30s, Breeding 
already has an impressive resume for the hate movement. As a Tampa-based 
regional organizer for National Alliance, the hate group whose leader's writings 
inspired Timothy McVeigh,1 Breeding helped bring Holocaust denier David Irving 
to the United States. When David Duke unsuccessfully sought the seat of 
disgraced Speaker of the House Bob Livingston, Breeding joined Duke's staff and 
has been with him ever since. In 1999, he launched the Nationalist News Service, 
which dispensed daily news bulletins with hate-twinged commentary ala Bill 
White. NNA operated as part of Stormfront.org, the leading racist propaganda 
clearinghouse on the internet.2 Breeding's most recent gig, under the pseudonym 
"Vince Edwards," was running EURO (European Unity and Rights Organization), 
through which David Duke swindled his followers out of thousands of dollars he 
later concealed from the IRS.3 In this capacity, Breeding administered the 
Duke-owned website "MartinLutherKing.org," a website that defames the slain 
civil rights leader's memory. Nazis for PeaceDavid Duke 
tried to reinvigorate his career by seeking to capitalize on the "peace" 
movement's momentum with a anti-war speech in Virginia. As a preparation for the 
speech, Duke, noting the Left's penchant for gathering unverified information 
from "alternate media" sources, commissioned Breeding to launch "No War for 
Israel" on February 5. Its few original articles (just six in all) offer red 
meat to die-hard leftists. For one thing, MLK Jr. aside, they share a common 
hagiography. Breeding prominently features an angelic picture of Rachel Corrie, 
with a link to her diary entries. The photo's caption: "Martyr for Peace."4 
The contribution of "Brigadier General" James J. Martin, a longtime 
Holocaust denier associated with the Institute for Historical Review,5 amounts 
to little more than a familiar litany of leftist talking points, in which he 
rattles off 30 Chomskyite charges against the state of Israel, such as: 
"Q.What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people 
whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?"A. 
Israel."Q. What country in the Middle East seized the sovereign 
territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in 
defiance of United Nations Security Council Resolutions?"A. 
Israel."The website also lists the UN's resolutions condemning Israel 
(all of them non-binding, incidentally). This moral equivalence - or in many 
cases, condoning of Islamist violence - is the Left's stock-in-trade, here 
appropriated without alteration by the hate-filled fringe.Both an 
article by Anver Suliman of the Pretoria-based Islamist website Media Review 
Network and an anonymous article on the site claim the forces behind the war are 
- surprise! - Jews. Suliman bases his "analysis" on statements by The Nation 
Jason Vest, Chris Matthews and Pat Buchanan that "George Bush has become a 
'client' of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon." The anonymous article 
cites the supposedly disproportionate influence of "pro-Israeli Jewish 
lobbyists" within the Cabinet. This pathetic piece, which still lists White 
House persona non grata David Frum as a Bush speechwriter, apparently sees 
mischief springing from the perfidious Jewish influence of such "top" advisers 
as Brad Blakeman (White House Director of Scheduling) and Christopher Gersten 
(Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Administration for Children and 
Families at the Department of Health and Human Services). Everyone's favorite 
Jew - Colin Powell - is also listed among the worthies. The author goes on to 
claim "the Israeli lobby" created the Monica Lewinsky scandal "to force 
(Clinton) to launch 'Operation Desert Fox,' in December 1998"! Even the 
title of the lone remaining article, "The Oil Racket and Greater Israel," 
recalls the peaceniks' mantra "No Blood for Oil!" Author "Eduardo S.B." declares 
"the truth behind this war campaign has everything to do with the ideal for a 
greater 

Re: [CTRL] Marrs: ALL HAIL THE JEWISH MASTER RACE!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Well?

But belief in no belief is still 
belief.

The trick is to make belief a servant 
rather than a master.

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dale Stonehouse 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:15 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Marrs: ALL HAIL THE 
  JEWISH MASTER RACE!
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  I guess the 
  point was missed. The problem is belief - all belief, any belief - it's a very 
  clever trap.
  
  Not just 
  religious belief. Scientific belief. Mathematical belief. Dream belief. 
  Medical belief. UFO belief. Belief in up and down.
  
  Belief BeLIE 
  LIE. It's a short trip.www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER 
  == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot 
  soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its 
  many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by 
  different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 
  of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
  of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 
  no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: 
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  Om 
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or Ruled?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



LOL!!!

Well as you know, I post infrequently 
here. 

It's probablythe diet here that 
keeps me so irregular.

I'm not targeting anyone, but you've given 
me some good material to work with.

But, primarily I just think you are a 
better person and capable of better than the sewerage you've beenwashing 
up here. 

Historically, the godmen have been 
societies severest handicaps. 

I just think regurgitating their sick 
claptrap, is giving them influence we can all do without. 

Funny about perceptions though? 


You see me as a bit of a lair, St Zuukie 
thinks I'm some New Age spy, some tosspot here thinks I'm his worst nightmare 
and wants to kill me, and the Fundi's think I'm a dread atheist and Anti-Christ. 


But I'm just a bloody individual 
mate!

Dave.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:02 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or 
  Ruled?
  -Caveat Lector- Heh heh...got to give 
  you credit for an entertaining as hell style. Now granted it took you several 
  days to craft them but these comebacks are indeed nifty. You ought to go into 
  showbiz! Many people with your...er...particular deviation enjoy ahem 
  fruitful careers in that industry and likely it would be an aid to success 
  there. I am not sure what I've done to suddenly draw your ire, I mean you 
  just now decided to "target" me? But regardless, have 
  fun.Bill.In a 
  message dated 10/30/2003 1:54:21 AM Central Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Well big B.S., 
 I thought a prominent Libertarian like yourself would be 
pro a little Snapper once in while; probably a bit too techno or designer 
for you old cow-dung traditionalist 'organic' whacky-weed types 
eh! I appreciate you trying 'to look out for me,' but 
I'm a big boy, and Billy playing Mummy, except when Lost In Space, is not an 
image I like you trying to place in my head.  You really should stop fantasying about my private life. 
Girlfriend Acharya might get jealous, and stop your invites to her tarot 
readings, alien communiqués and séances man. Potty, pious, self-anointed mystic priest Herr Heinrick 
Makow probably won't mind your fantasies; his world is utter fantasy. 
 Undoubtedly, ZZaint Heinrick, the holy man of god, has a 
warm place reserved for you upon his alter where a little of your "AMYL 
NITRATE," will enhance the vasodilation epiphany. Being joined at the head by a common Judeophobia, is just 
a rub away from being joined at the hip. It's as natural as a priest and his 
alter boy. Hmmm? Say, you've got some hot competition now. Seems Herr Shorn McDudd is stealing your thunder. 
 You'll need to up the ante a bit, maybe a few choice 
passages from Mein Kampf. Dave. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == 
  CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing 
  propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! 
  These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, 
  mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups 
  with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and 
  thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, 
  and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no 
  credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A 
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  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
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  Om 
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or Ruled?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Well big B.S.,

I thought a prominent Libertarian like 
yourself would be pro a little Snapper once in while; probably a bit too techno 
or designer for you old cow-dung traditionalist 'organic' whacky-weed types 
eh!

I appreciate you trying 'to look out for 
me,' but I'm a big boy, and Billy playing Mummy, except when Lost In 
Space, is not an image I like you trying toplace in my 
head.

You really should stop fantasying about my 
private life. Girlfriend Acharya might 
get jealous, and stopyour invites to her tarot readings, alien communiqués 
and séances man.

Potty, pious, self-anointed mystic priest 
Herr Heinrick Makow probably won't mind your fantasies; his world is utter 
fantasy.

Undoubtedly, ZZaint Heinrick, the holy man 
of god, has a warm place reserved for you upon his alter wherea little of 
your"AMYL NITRATE," will enhance the vasodilation epiphany. 

Being joined at the head by a common 
Judeophobia, is just a rub away from being joined at the hip. It's as natural as 
a priest and his alter boy.

Hmmm? 

Say, you've got some hot competition now. 


Seems Herr Shorn McDudd is stealing your 
thunder.

You'll need to up the ante a bit, maybe a 
few choice passages from Mein Kampf.

Dave.





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:10 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or 
  Ruled?
  -Caveat Lector- Davey, You 
  ought to lay off those poppers of Amyl Nitrate...they're making you a little 
  wacked. Just looking out for ya...Bill.In a message dated 10/26/2003 8:58:34 
  PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I'm sure Billy 
Shannon and his esoteric alien-in-communiqué girlfriend Acharya S, will 
enjoy the same freedom of speech when these pious god-isers, in the vein of 
Makow, achieve more political leverage than they currently have. Under 
Makow's holy god, in times past, Billy's esoteric girlfriend would have most 
likely been burnt or strangled as a witch. But then, when the slightest scent of Judeaophobia is 
afoot, it seems Billy will jump into bed with anything.www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == 
  CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing 
  propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! 
  These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, 
  mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups 
  with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and 
  thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, 
  and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no 
  credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A 
  HREF=""ctrl/A 
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  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
  [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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  CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Om 
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] Leo-Cons the Satanic Neo-Silly-Cons!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Lol! 

Well the Judeophobes sure are an 
extremely schizoid and confusedbunch.Theses 
mad-hatterscan't even agree on what Satan's servants"neo"-modern 
name ought be. They can't seem to get their pious act together to Christen and 
name theirimmerging little demonising aphorism.

We've seen the 
attempted slurs and smears; "Neo-con," "Neo-Jacobin" andnow "Leo-con"! 


Quite a 
disunited 
cacophony, but what else canone expect from such dysfunctional 
minds.

This reminds one of the fascist crackpot 
La Rouche, who made similar implications in his 2004 campaign with a US 
nationwide circulation of 400,000 copies of his "Children of Satan" dossier. 


The paper allegedly 'exposes' the role of 
the wicked University of Chicago fascist 'philosopher' Leo Strauss as 
the godfather of the neo-conservative war party in and around the Bush 
Administration.

La Rouche of course, usesthe overt 
anti-Semitic aphorism in"Children of Satan"; a borrowed phrase from the 
Supremacist hate group Aryan Nations, who claims non-whites are "mud-people" no 
better than animals, andJews are the devil's progeny.

In this misanthropic 'theology,' the 
Satanic Jews are descendants of Cain, who sprung forth from a sexual liaison 
with Eve. Rather weighty, rational and intellectual stuff for sure.

As to Paul Wolfwowitz'salleged 
Straussian connection; the libel and lies continue to be spread in articles such 
as the one posted by Bill Shannon.

While Mr. Wolfowitz did take just a couple 
ofcourses with Mr. Strauss, tothen call him a 
"disciple" is the height of absurdity and 
dis-information.He was in fact a student of Mr. Wohlstetter. He makes all 
this clear in a remarkable interview with Sam Tanenhaus of Vanity Fair, released 
by the Defence Department at www.defenselink.mil.

I'm sure now we'll start seeing some 
aphorism of "wohly-cons," or "neo-wohls"posted to demonise in some pious 
manner around the Net. 

The bottom line, once again is, that the 
Judeophobes; using prepared textsinspired byWhite 
Supremacists,Clerico-Fascists and Fundi superstitions,attempt to 
paint some dark satanic aurora and demonise and smear another human being with 
their sanctimonious tripe.

Far from the writers claim below that, 
"information on the Internet, makes perpetrating Noble Lies more 
difficult than it has ever been,"it in has in fact enhanced the 
capacity of political twerps to broadband theirIgnoble Lies as has the 
aforesaid writer.

As ever; the big lie will travel the world 
tens times over, whilst the truth has barely put its boots on. But we must thank folks like Billy Shannon for so 
consistently alerting us to the real sources of these Judeophobic rants, the 
devious and lying forces of the devilish 
neo-silly-cons.

Dave.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 11:43 
  AM
  Subject: [CTRL] Leo-Cons
  http://stories.wbal.com/stories/story.asp?a=13016print=yesLeo-ConsFriday, 
  October 24, 2003 Ron Smith's Something to Say Have 
  you noticed that one is not supposed to say neocon any more? Its suddenly a 
  dirty word because to use it as identification for a particular school of 
  political thought is said to be anti-Semitic, apparently because so many 
  prominent new conservatives are Jewish. Theyre proud of that 
  privately, but since the Iraq adventure has not gone as smoothly as they told 
  us it would, theyd rather not accept public responsibility for ginning up 
  support for the invasion and occupation. Besides, as followers of 
  political philosopher Leo Strauss, many neocon intellectuals believe ordinary 
  folks shouldnt be told the truth about matters of importance such as the 
  reasons for expending American blood and treasure on the Iraq War. 
  Irving Kristol (Bills Pappy), sometimes called the Godfather of 
  neo-conservatism, once wrote:There are different kinds of truths for different 
  kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that 
  are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; 
  and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion 
  that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern 
  democratic fallacy. It doesnt work. Understanding what Strauss taught his students is key to 
  understanding how the use of deception and manipulation in current US policy 
  flows directly from the doctrines [of Strauss]. His disciples include Paul 
  Wolfowitz and other neo-conservatives who have driven much of the political 
  agenda of the Bush administration.If you are at all interested in 
  learning more about Strauss and his profound influence on the events of this 
  time, read 
  this interview with a Strauss scholar who has been denounced for shedding 
  light on the late teachers cultists. Ruling elites have always gulled 
  the masses. Its necessary to keep those who are subordinated from 

Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or Ruled?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Itpartly tells me that "Pharisee," 
as a term of controlist-opprobrium, is explicitly a non-singularly Jewish 
manifestation and the weak-minded totemgrapplers, many and vast they be, are 
eagerly clawing their way up, even if just to momentarily sniff the anal vapours 
of their masters.

What is interesting, is the 
credo-ism:

  "... CTRL is a discussion 
   informational exchange list. Proselytizing 
  propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. 
  Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters 
  and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- 
  directions and outright frauds—is used politically by 
  different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 
  of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
  of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 
  no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not 
  apply".
It sort of hangs over thedoorway as 
a hallowed talisman of a once arcane holy thought, to be adored and worshipped 
like some relic of bygone efficacy, whose principles have, as the poet 
said,"... [had] their day and cease to be".

One also notes that in,"nazi's need 
not apply" even small-'n' are allegedly forbidden. 

The 'natural'course of rebellion 
involved the idea of patricide.
Dave.


- Original Message - From: "Party of Citizens" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 
Monday, October 27, 2003 4:40 PMSubject: Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or 
Ruled?-Caveat Lector-What does the totem and taboo test tell 
you?POC(LEZ)On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, David Sutherland 
wrote: -Caveat Lector- So, the Jews invented 
"Democracy" and "Human Rights," whilstsimultaneously they are Satan's 
dupes. Excuse moi, whilst I have a huge ROTFLMAO at Makow's 
expensive. The, Illuminati stigma was manufactured by Catholic 
clerics. The'Illuminati' became just another prelates term, like Satan, to 
demonisetheir religious opponents. Religion is about control, hate and 
division. The alleged founder of the Illuminati was Adam 
Weishapt; although I havesearched for the supposed evils of this man, I 
could not even locate thepernicious crime of a parking or speeding 
infringement for his horse andbuggy. It seems his main crime 
was that despised religious hypocrisy andauthoritarianism. Much the same as 
the first freedom loving Americansexpressed their disdain for despotic 
'kings and popes'. This led the o-so-loving and holy Catholic 
Jesuits to label Weishapt a"human devil". When Thomas Jefferson read some of 
the memoirs of one ofthese loving clerical demonisers against Weishapt, he 
was led to exclaimthat they were the rants of a lunatic. 
Thus, the "Illuminati" stigma has become a term of propaganda used 
againstclerical opponents, the same who desire to establish a hierocracy in 
Americaand bring the secular government under their dogmatic 
sway. I'm sure Billy Shannon and his esoteric 
alien-in-communiqué girlfriendAcharya S, will enjoy the same freedom of 
speech when these pious god-isers,in the vein of Makow, achieve more 
political leverage than they currentlyhave. Under Makow's holy god, in times 
past, Billy's esoteric girlfriendwould have most likely been burnt or 
strangled as a witch. But then, when the slightest scent of 
Judeaophobia is afoot, it seemsBilly will jump into bed with 
anything. Again, Makow's use of the term "Luciferian," sides him 
with Catholicism.It was in fact one of the pious religious Catholic saints, 
Jerome, who firstused the idiom to demonise an opponent group whose leader 
was a Bishop namedLucifer. In future periods, the term Luciferian was used 
to demonisewitches, pagans and all-manner all Catholic 
"heretics". The pious Makow didn't fully appreciate Mahathirs 
speech, because whilstMahathir spoke of wild fantasies about a Jewish 
Conspiracy that no one tookseriously, he more so lambasted his own Muslim 
culture and the mullahs forthe superstition, darkness, intolerance and evil 
they have kept their peoplefor so long. That is to say, there is more 
Jew-envy in his speech, ratherthan disdain, which Judeophobes like Makow 
would have preferred. 
Dave. - Original Message 
- From: William Shannon To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 3:36 
PM Subject: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or 
Ruled? -Caveat Lector- http://www.savethemales.ca/ Are Jews Rulers or 
Ruled? By Henry Makow Ph.D. October 19, 
2003 "Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others 
to fight and die forthem." Malaysian Prime 
Minister Mahathir Mohamad recently made headlines forthis statement to the 
Organization of the Islamic Conference, the world'slargest Muslim 
group. The speech was actually opposed to terrorism 
but the world mediapresented it (in the words of one Jewish leader) as "an 
absolute invitationfor more hate crimes and te

Re: [CTRL] Marrs: ALL HAIL THE JEWISH MASTER RACE!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



It's psychological transference and 
projection on the part of sicko's like Texe Marrs. They attribute their own 
inner rage, hate and malice onto other peoples or groups. It's quite common, 
particulralaryamong the mentally ill.

Of course, Texe preys on the 
superstitious, fearful and gullible and enjoys fleecing themof their 
hard-earned dollars. Judeophobia has become quite the rage, far be it fora 
hawker ofhate likeMarrs not to exploit and cash in on the 
vogue.

For William Shannon, aka Billy Shannon, 
aka B.S., aka Babbling Bill; Jew-baiting is really just a game; a pastime it 
seems, and one he enjoys.

He's got Sean Mc Dudd trying to steal his 
Judeophobic thunder here, so now he's trawling for the lowest sensationalistic 
dregs, husks and refuse he can dredge upfrom the bottom of the Net sewer, 
in order tomaintain his status as most-controversial Tabloid 
poster.

It's strange how these "saints" project 
onto other groups and peoples, fantasticaltales of what these groups 
supposedly might do or wish todo to their fellow human beings, 
whilst historically, they are the ones that have actually committed the very 
acts they accuse others of.

Whilst it remains a mystery; i.e. the 
actual date of Bills conversion to the holy faith he now shares with Texe the 
Marrs-tian, wedo gain acertain perspective of thestyle of mind 
that imbibes the manufactured Judeophobic text; it's predominantly the Ultra 
paranoid schizo Fundi Right, and Left, using the old textbooks of thelikes 
of the Italian fascist Julius Evola, and the political arm of Catholicism, 
theJesuits, in their frenzied old anti-Semitic paper "La Cattloica 
Civilita" (Catholic Civilization).


In fact, check out this immensely 
important link:

http://biblebelievers.org.au/jq2.htm

This is as reproductive 
translationof, "La Civilt Cattolica, Series XIV, Vol. VII, 
Fascicule 961, 23 October 1890". A most amazing documentfor students 
looking into the origins of paleo and neo-modern Conspiracy Theory and clerical 
anti-Semitism; and which in large part Texe Marrs rehashes.

Amazingly, the owners of this website are 
in agreement with the Jesuits arcane, tribal and frenzied anti-Semitism. What is 
highly interesting also, are the authors end notes, in which they are forcibly 
ledto conclude,"In reading this 1890 book (of the Jesuits) 
which describes the workings of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of 
Sion centuries (sic)before their private publication by 
Philip Stepanov in 1897" [Brackets and emphasis 
mine].

In any case,whilst the 
UltraExtremist Left and Right,possess the mostbitter hatred 
for one another, they're hate finds common solace in theirshared bed of 
wedlock; Judeophobia.


People who often vehemently denounce 
adevil which they believe they have uncovered and the evil 
principlestheyascribe to their particular demons, often become that 
which they detest.

Recurrently, people and 
groups often come to imitate what they accuse others of.Individuals andmass 
movements alike, not seldom take shape after their own specific demon. 
Consequently, theyoften then become the very demon once denounced. 

Western ecclesiasticism, particularly in the Middle 
Ages became so obsessed with devils and witchcraft that it justified mass 
slaughter and the very sorts of atrocities one would normally attribute to 
satanic forces.
The Bolsheviks in 
Russia denounced Capitalism yet 
amassed a monopoly, and Lenin took over the Czars secret police apparatus 
without a moments hesitation.
Self-appointed prophets, 
denouncers and doomsayers may want to consider why they believe and behave 
inthe fashion they do; and whetherin gazing erelong 
intodarknessand evil, have lost sight of the light which they claim 
to dispense.
The loopy Texe, who also believeshe 
isa prophet of god, not only rakedthe dollars in with his prophetic 
Y2K doomsdayism; promoting and profiteering from fear, and the superstition of 
the gullible with his Y2K 'survival kits,' (his estimated property 
assets alone amounted to well over a $1,000,000 way 
back in 1997, whilst hecontinually cries poor); but he also believes 
that the notorious Barbie Doll is a satanic shill.

His fetish for Barbie at one point led 
himto claim,"Even our children are being stealthily 
indoctrinated into the new faith [the worship of Satan's mistress]. The Mattel 
Toy Co. has introduced its new 'Goddess of the Sun' Barbie doll. Is this the 
Whore of Babylon spirit, alive and with us today?" March 
1997.

Another infallible Marrsian prophecy, 
that never eventuated, was that "... come millennium eve, Dec 
31, 1999, former President George Bush and fellow members of a cult known as the 
"Illuminati" will summon oppressive evil forces at a black mass in a burial 
chamber deep inside the great Cheops pyramid ..." Egyptian boogie 
nights, U.S. News  World Report, Dec. 27, 1999. 

One could go on and on, but safe to say 
that thebabblings of Texe Marrs,a sad case of a hawker of hate, 

Re: [CTRL] Rummy's Ruminations - are but a Dummies Dumduminations

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Crikee!

Shorn McDudd, you really 
areeverything Milligan has said about you; and a word-some, 
mewlingtwerp to boot. 

Who gives a ratz pharte about 
"name-calling," you've done that in just about every post you nauseating little 
hypocrite.

Where did I call the goofyshyster 
Raimonda an "anti-Semite"? 

And so what if I did? 

What are you saying; if the phrase 
emanates from your sanctimonious gobshyte, its apt (as you did in 
another post), but if another poster uses it, it's some dastardly 
dupe-ism, guilt by association JDL-ism! You have me in hysterics. Your incessant 
double-standards suggest you are some sort of 
paranoid-schizo.

People like Raimondo don't give a crap 
about anything, except their flatulent egos. That is probably one reason why he appeals to so many weak minds here, 
they know not the difference between a fragrant scent and the stink of bog 
gas.

Why don't you go away and do some 
homework, cut the pretentious "I'm Mr all-in-the-know" facade, play-actthe 
human quality we call humility, (because 
acting humble is the only way you will ever come close to the 
experience),and maybe you'll have something remotely worthwhile to say 
that might interest me.

As it stands, you are just regurgitating 
worthless Jesuitical politicised drivel,scapegaoting one 
group,whilst the "Christian" Storm Troopers march on. When the Jesuits are 
not teetering and falling over themselves, crawling into AA or Betty Ford, they 
are busied chameleons with their schizophrenic, duplicitous political 
skulduggeries.

Without question; Raimondo is a creature 
of Jesuitism, and complete prat.

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Rummy's 
  Ruminations
  -Caveat Lector-  
  
  What facts or analysis did Raimondo get 
  wrong in his essay? Your post consists entirely of name-calling, and 
  boils down to smearing him as an "anti-Semite" -- probably the most 
  disreputable and lazy form of intellectual argumentation in the book. 
  This is the kind of rhetoric in which the JDL 
  specializes.
  
  Raimondo (along with Jim Lobe, Robert 
  Dreyfuss, Kathleen Christison and others) has provided invaluable, 
  detailedand accurate information and analysis of the role of the neocons 
  in the Bush administration. He has been well ahead of the curve on an 
  issue so important that it has even erupted into the mainstream 
  media.
  
  I have never seenRaimondo promote 
  Catholic or "Jesuitical" ideas or policies in his essays on Antiwar.com. 
  Can you point to any concrete evidence?
  
  By the way, Paul Wolfowitz, the chief 
  architect of the Iraq War, recently won a man of the year award from the 
  Jerusalem Post -- one of Israel's leading newspapers.
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
David 
Sutherland 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 9:47 
PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Rummy's 
Ruminations
-Caveat Lector- ? 



Justin Raimondo is a 
credulous creature of the Jesuits.

Having read a few of his 
schizophrenic diatribes;they essentially betray the ideals of his 
mentors, and their propaganda style to scapegoat other groups for their own 
political ambitions.

Whilst he ranted, 
in another post, about the errors of Dispensationalists,in his deceit 
he failed miserably to articulate the seminal inspiration for such 
religio-politico prognostications asbeingthat of his very own 
priestly pedagogues who presently also strive to bringglobal 
Judeophobia to a new climax.

The tactic is much like 
the Jesuitical,'Protocols of Zion' which targeted Jews, Masons, 
Protestants, Liberals, Free Thinkers and et al; as being out to enslave 
humanity when all-the-while the clericswere the ones busied grooming 
theirhouse paintermessiah Adolf to achieve the very ambitions 
outlined in the Protocols andwhich the same clerics blamed on other 
groupswho sought a freer and more tolerant society.

Justin Raimondo; 
"frothy-mouthed rant" -just another one of his torrential 
Freudian slips.

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William 
  Shannon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:35 
  AM
  Subject: [CTRL] Rummy's 
  Ruminations
  -Caveat Lector- http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.htmlRUMMY'S RUMINATIONSLeaked memo reveals Rumsfeld as clueless ? and 
  recklessThe leak of a memo written by U.S. Secretary of 
  Defense Donald Rumsfeld confessing that the Iraq war is going to be "a 
  long, hard slog" has dealt a body blow to the War Party ? and signals 
  a new level of desperation on the part of the radical 
  cl

Re: [CTRL] [U-S-A] Persecution of Christians in U-S-A? (fwd)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



"Persecution of Christians" -what 
rot!

Try being an 
atheist in gods own land. How do you think you'd fair then?Pray TV, 
maybe better Prey TV, is not interested in anything else except 
ratingsfigures and the $$$'s they can rake in.And, 
"c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-v-e w-a-y o-f l-i-f-e" is merely an 
aphorism for control-freak-Fundi's who want to control every aspect of 
yourexistence.They're just Nazis in different 
garb.Dave.- Original Message - From: 
"Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 5:28 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] 
[U-S-A] Persecution of Christians in U-S-A? (fwd)-Caveat 
Lector-On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, iNFoWaRZ wrote: Or is it a 
comprehensive way of life. If the latter, spell it out. 
POC Yes. c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-v-e w-a-y 
o-f l-i-f-eVery well ... now can you tell us why Pray TV shuns the 
articulation of aculture designed according to the teachings of Christ? A 
"Christopolis" ifyou will. What WOULD Jesus build? Does anybody 
know?Pray TV here in BC is called "Now TV". Doug and the Tarts who do 
theinterviewing on Now TV hate the very idea of a "Canada founded 
uponprinciples that recognize the supremacy of God" as does the CHP 
(ChristianHeritage Party) of Canada. Can any of you yanks help them 
out?POCwww.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizingpropagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is 
used politically by different groupswithmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
Available at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo 
subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To 
UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF CTRL 
[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Om
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=""ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Rummy's Ruminations

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Justin Raimondo is a 
credulous creature of the Jesuits.

Having read a few of his 
schizophrenic diatribes;they essentially betray the ideals of his mentors, 
and their propaganda style to scapegoat other groups for their own political 
ambitions.

Whilst he ranted, in 
another post, about the errors of Dispensationalists,in his deceit he 
failed miserably to articulate the seminal inspiration for such religio-politico 
prognostications asbeingthat of his very own priestly pedagogues who 
presently also strive to bringglobal Judeophobia to a new 
climax.

The tactic is much like the 
Jesuitical,'Protocols of Zion' which targeted Jews, Masons, Protestants, 
Liberals, Free Thinkers and et al; as being out to enslave humanity when 
all-the-while the clericswere the ones busied grooming theirhouse 
paintermessiah Adolf to achieve the very ambitions outlined in the 
Protocols andwhich the same clerics blamed on other groupswho sought 
a freer and more tolerant society.

Justin Raimondo; 
"frothy-mouthed rant" -just another one of his torrential Freudian 
slips.

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:35 
  AM
  Subject: [CTRL] Rummy's Ruminations
  -Caveat Lector- http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.htmlRUMMY'S RUMINATIONSLeaked memo reveals Rumsfeld as clueless  and 
  recklessThe leak of a memo written by U.S. Secretary of 
  Defense Donald Rumsfeld confessing that the Iraq war is going to be "a 
  long, hard slog" has dealt a body blow to the War Party  and signals a 
  new level of desperation on the part of the radical 
  clique that lured us 
  into the Iraq quagmire.Rumsfeld, 
  long perceived as a 
  hawk, now appears eager to embrace an exit 
  strategy. He has enraged 
  the neoconservatives by refusing to come out in favor of putting more 
  troops in the field, and, according to Charles Kupchan, an analyst with the 
  Council on Foreign Relations,"It's clear now 
  that Rumsfeld is not interested in 'remaking Iraq.' He wants to get the hell 
  out of there."He also wants to survive in Washington, where 
  the hunt for scapegoats 
  is on: the war is going 
  badly, and the general pessimism of the leaked 
  memo reflects this. Although confident of ultimate victory, "one way or 
  another," in the short run the outlook, according to Rumsfeld, seems 
  altogether bleak. The "global war on terrorism" is looking even grimmer: 
  "We are having mixed results with Al Qaida, although we have put 
  considerable pressure on them  nonetheless, a great many remain at 
  large."While Osama is not mentioned by name in the memo, he 
  doesn't need to be: our complete cluelessness as to his whereabouts is 
  underscored every time we receive one 
  of those eerie tape-recorded messages promising more terror to come. But 
  it's a lot worse than that. According to Rummy, we're flying 
  blind:"Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing 
  the global war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and 
  dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical 
  clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?"The man 
  wants "metrics." Maybe he should try these on for size. 
  Or isn't the number of American dead and wounded telling him what he wants to 
  hear? In the Byzantine world of Washington intrigue, one is tempted to 
  believe that the Secretary of Defense, far from being broadsided by this leak, 
  engineered 
  it himself, because it makes him seem almost semi-rational next to the 
  everything's-coming-up-roses crowd. But there's some wild-and-crazy stuff 
  here, too, just the sort of Dr. Strangelove-ish ranting one might expect from 
  Rummy in an unguarded moment:"Are the changes we have and are 
  making too modest and incremental? My impression is that we have not yet made 
  truly bold moves, although we have made many sensible, logical moves in the 
  right direction, but are they enough?"Let's see: we've turned the 
  "just 
  war" doctrine on its head and established our divine right of 
  "preemption." We've invaded a country that never attacked us, occupied it, 
  and are now bogged down in a war of attrition where victory  measured by any 
  "metric"  is impossible. We have not 
  only alienated our traditional allies  we've gone out of our way 
  to make sure they stay alienated. Far from confronting Al Qaeda, we have been 
  Osama bin Laden's chief 
  recruiter: U.S. policy seems designed to provoke the Muslim world into a 
  frenzy of murderous opposition to American interests worldwide.That's 
  quite enough, thank you.To world-conquering Rummy, the conquest 
  of Iraq is "too modest and incremental." Sure, he wants the troops out of Iraq 
   so they can move on to Syria, Iran, and central Asia. But what really ought 
  to make us prick up our ears is the cryptic query near the end of the 
  memo:"Does CIA need a new 

Re: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or Ruled?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




So, the Jews invented "Democracy" and 
"Human Rights," whilst simultaneously they are Satan's dupes.

Excuse moi, whilst I have a huge ROTFLMAO 
at Makow's expensive.

The, Illuminati stigma was manufactured by 
Catholic clerics. The 'Illuminati' becamejust anotherprelates term, 
like Satan,to demonise their religious opponents. Religion is about 
control, hate and division. 

The alleged founder of the Illuminati 
wasAdam Weishapt; although I have searchedfor the supposed evils of 
this man, I could not even locate the pernicious crime of aparking or 
speeding infringement for his horse and buggy. 

It seems his main crime was that despised 
religious hypocrisy and authoritarianism. Much the same as the first freedom 
loving Americans expressed their disdain for despotic'kings and popes'. 


This led the o-so-loving and holy Catholic 
Jesuits to label Weishapt a "human devil". When Thomas Jefferson read some of 
the memoirs of one of these loving clerical demonisers against Weishapt, he was 
led to exclaim that they were the rants of a lunatic.

Thus, the "Illuminati" stigma has become 
aterm of propaganda used against clerical opponents, the same who desire 
to establish a hierocracy in America and bring the secular government under 
their dogmatic sway.

I'm sure Billy Shannon and his esoteric 
alien-in-communiqué girlfriend Acharya S, will enjoy the same freedom of speech 
when these pious god-isers, in the vein of Makow, achieve more political 
leverage than they currently have. Under Makow's holy god, in times past, 
Billy's esoteric girlfriend would have most likely been burnt or strangled as a 
witch. 

But then, when the slightest scent of 
Judeaophobia is afoot, it seems Billy will jump into bed with 
anything.

Again, Makow's use of the term 
"Luciferian,"sides him with Catholicism. It was in fact one of the pious 
religious Catholic saints, Jerome, who first used the idiom to demonise an 
opponent group whose leader was a Bishop named Lucifer. In future periods, the 
term Luciferian was used to demonise witches, pagans and all-manner 
allCatholic "heretics".

The pious Makow didn't fully appreciate 
Mahathirs speech, because whilst Mahathirspoke of wild fantasies about a 
Jewish Conspiracy that no one took seriously, he more so lambasted his 
ownMuslim culture and the mullahs for the superstition, darkness, 
intoleranceand evil they have kepttheir people for so long. That is 
to say, there is more Jew-envy in his speech, rather than disdain, which 
Judeophobes like Makow would have preferred.

Dave.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 3:36 
  PM
  Subject: [CTRL] Are Jews Rulers or 
  Ruled?
  -Caveat Lector- http://www.savethemales.ca/Are 
  Jews Rulers or Ruled? By Henry Makow Ph.D. October 19, 2003 
  "Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die 
  for them." Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad recently made 
  headlines for this statement to the Organization of the Islamic Conference, 
  the world's largest Muslim group.The speech was actually 
  opposed to terrorism but the world media presented it (in the words of 
  one Jewish leader) as "an absolute invitation for more hate crimes and 
  terrorism against Jews."This is a classic example of how Jewish 
  leaders create a false spectre of anti Semitism to manipulate Jews, and 
  Americans in general, to oppose Muslims.At a time when Israel and the 
  US are threatening Syria and Iran with attack, as part of a larger "war of 
  civilizations," it is necessary to highlight such media machinations. 
  WHAT MAHATHIR ACTUALLY SAIDMohamad actually 
  exhorted his fellow Muslims to imitate the Jews by thinking, and not 
  acting impetuously. Spontaneous acts of terror are not the most practical 
  course. "It is winning the struggle that is important, not angry retaliation, 
  not revenge," he said. "[The Jews] survived 2000 years of pogroms not 
  by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted 
  Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them 
  would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With 
  these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, 
  this tiny community, have become a world power. We cannot fight them through 
  brawn alone. We must use our brains also."Just as angry people 
  [Muslims] make mistakes, so do arrogant people. "Of late because of 
  their power and their apparent success they have become arrogant. And arrogant 
  people, like angry people will make mistakes, will forget to think. They are 
  already beginning to make mistakes. And they will make more mistakes. There 
  may be windows of opportunity for us now and in the future. We must seize 
  these opportunities." But generally, the tone of the speech was not 
  belligerent. "We also know that not all non-Muslims are against 

Re: [CTRL] Mormon Church out of Egypt?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Every religion on the planet is primarily pious crap, there are Hindu rat
and cow-dung worshippers, Buddhism like Catholicism (both
are near the same, silly beads, smelly incense, human-denying celibacy,
phoney priests, rediculous popes, men in drag, etc, etc), why should the
Mormon one be any different. It doesn't rhyme with moron for nothing.

Dave.

- Original Message -
From: John Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:31 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Mormon Church out of Egypt?


-Caveat Lector-

Mormon Church - The Abomination?

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed
till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried;
but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand. And from the time [that] the daily
[sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate
set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days (1,290
days). Daniel 12:9-11

You don't know me--you never will. You never knew my heart. No man knows my
history. I cannot tell it; I shall never undertake it. I don't blame anyone
for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could
not have believed it myself. J. Smith, April 7th 1844.

Here's what Mormons believe

In 1823, Joseph Smith, nearly 18 years old received a visit from an angel
called Moroni. And in 1827 the Angel Moroni delivered engraved metal plates
of brass and gold to Smith containing the historical record, from about
600BC to AD 400 regarding the people of America and a included the report of
the visit to America by Jesus Christ. The plates were written in what he
called reformed Egyptian.  And Joseph Smith transcribed the plates into
modern speech and the books were published as the Book of Mormon on April
6th 1830, when Joseph Smith was 24 years old. Joseph Smith was killed with
his brother Hyrum, by a mob in Carthage, Illinois, on June 27th 1844, that
is 14.224 years after April 6th 1830 aged 38 years.

Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book
on Earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to
God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

A later President of the Church, Ezra Benson said that the book establishes
and proves to the world that Joseph Smith is a prophet, for he received the
book from a resurrected personage and translated it by the gift and power of
God...The Church is thus the one true Church because it was set up by a
prophet acting under command of God.

And the Mormon Church believes in the Bible only in so much as it has been
correctly translated. Joseph Smith said, I believe the Bible as it read
when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators,
careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many
errors.

The Mormon Church came into possession of some ancient Egyptian writings on
papyrus scrolls in 1835. Although there was little known about Egyptian
hieroglyphics at that time. Joseph Smith said that it was written by the Old
Testament patriarch Abraham, in his own hand. And Joseph Smith, without
knowledge or schooling in the Egyptian language translated the hieroglyphics
from the papyrus scrolls and called it the Book of Abraham. The Book of
Abraham is now included in 'The Pearl of Great Price' and is one of the four
Mormon sacred books, along with the Bible, 'The Book of Mormon', and 'The
Doctrine and Covenants'.

And Joseph Smith said he had a revelation that was not written down until
1843 that commanded Mormons to the practice of polygamy. However, this new
doctrine was not officially announced and made public until 1852. It was
Brigham Young, the second President of the Church, who ordered the doctrine
made public and said that if any denied the principle of plurality of wives
that they would be damned. In 1862, U.S. President Lincoln signed into law
the Anti-Polygamy Act of1862 which made plural marriage illegal. The
Doctrine commanding polygamy was placed in the official Church Doctrine and
Covenants in 1876.

The Mormon Church has given unique meanings to many common religious
concepts and words: The Church teaches that the 'Gospel' means the laws and
ordinances of the Mormon Church, which includes the Book of Mormon, and the
Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, as well as the Bible.
Mormons believe that the true gospel message was lost from the Earth shortly
after the New Testament apostles died, and now only the Mormons hold the
true gospel message. The Church teaches that you will know that the Book of
Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet by reading the book
and praying to God to ask whether it is true.

The Mormons believe that if you pray and receive the answer that the Book of
Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a Prophet, that you will then testify
that the Church of Jesus 

[CTRL] Fw: Letter from London: Honour killing dishonours us all

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-







  Imagine... your throat is 
  slit because you dared to become "westernized"... all because you bore a 
  vagina instead of a penis.
  http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_7-10-2003_pg3_7

  Letter from London: Honour killing 
  dishonours us allIrfan HusainMuslims are more resistant to 
  change than any other community. But above all, it is our attitude towards 
  women that disgraces the entire faith and communityRecently, London 
  newspapers carried detailed reports about the trial of a 47-year-old 
  Kurdish father who slit the throat of his 16-year-old daughter. Abdalla 
  Yones was sentenced to life imprisonment, although he asked for the death 
  sentence for his gruesome crime. As the ultimate penalty was outlawed 
  years ago, the judge couldn’t oblige the killer.The reason for the 
  murder was that the defendant’s daughter, Heshu Yones, had become too 
  ‘Westernised’ for her father’s liking, going to the extent of having a 
  Lebanese-Christian boyfriend. Abdalla lost face when he received a letter 
  accusing his daughter of ‘behaving like a slut’ and went into a depression. 
  Heshu had written a long letter before her death, accusing her father 
  of frequent violence against her: “...Hey, for an older man you have a 
  good strong punch and kick. I hope you enjoyed testing your strength on 
  me, it was fun being on the receiving end. Well done...” Last October, her 
  father attacked her with a knife, inflicting terrible injuries before 
  slitting her throat and letting her bleed to death.While 
  sentencing the murderer, Judge Neil Denison noted: “This is, in any view, 
  a tragic story arising out of irreconcilable cultural differences between 
  traditional Kurdish values and western society.” This murder was described 
  as an honour killing, and was one of a dozen such crimes committed last 
  year. While the police were quick to point out that honour killings 
  were not committed only by Muslims, the fact is that the bulk of these 
  gruesome murders occur among Britain’s large Muslim community. Almost 
  invariably, girls are the victims as some of them refuse to live narrow 
  traditional lives and dare to choose to explore the freedoms they are 
  permitted in the West. In many cases, their refusal to marry a man their 
  parents have chosen leads to tragedy. For first generation parents, such 
  rebellion means a loss of face in the community that can only be restored 
  by an honour killing.In a permissive society where the individual 
  choice of a young man or woman takes precedence over parental wishes, 
  especially when it comes to choosing a partner, it is incomprehensible 
  that adults should resort to murder to prevent a relationship. Talking to 
  Westerners, Muslims defend this practice by claiming that it is Islamic. 
  In reality, consenting adults have the freedom to choose as no coercion in 
  matrimony is permitted in Islam. Nevertheless, these criminal acts 
  continue, especially in Pakistan where more often than not, the killers 
  get away scot free or with a mild sentence. The ‘irreconcilable 
  cultural differences’ Judge Neil Denison referred to while sentencing 
  Abdalla Yones exist across the spectrum, but specially with everything to 
  do with women: they are the ones who are supposed to uphold ‘family 
  honour’. Any deviation from traditional behaviour jeopardises the family’s 
  (particularly the patriarch’s) honour and must therefore be punished. 
  Males are absolved of this responsibility except when they have to take 
  punitive action; a failure to do so makes them dishonourable. These 
  attitudes to sex and women are part and parcel of the cultural values in 
  much of the Islamic world. They also exist in the backward parts of Spain, 
  Sicily, the Balkans as well as South America. Interestingly, Muslims ruled 
  over Spain, Sicily and the Balkans for centuries, and the Spaniards 
  conquered much of South America and implanted their views and cultural 
  values in most of the continent.Most migrant groups struggle to come 
  to terms with the alien belief system and culture of the host society 
  where they have chosen to make a new life. Britain has been more tolerant 
  than most and has encouraged the _expression_ and development of foreign 
  traditions, but the welcome may finally be wearing a bit thin. Immigrants 
  and asylum seekers are too often viewed as abusing the generous social 
  security system, and the refusal of many communities to learn English and 
  conform at least outwardly to British norms has begun to grate. Although 
  most people acknowledge the contribution made to the local economy, 
  culture and gastronomy by foreigners, they are increasingly critical of 
  groups who keep to themselves and resist integrating into the 
  mainstream.In this category, Muslims are more resistant to change than 
  any other community. But above all, it is our attitude towards women that 

[CTRL] American Televangelist Wants To Nuke US State Dept

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Pat Robertson's 'nuke' idea draws protest

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/10/09/robertson.state/
State Dept. spokesman: 'Idea is despicable'


Friday, October 10, 2003 Posted: 0221 GMT 
(10:21 AM HKT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Television evangelist and Christian Coalition founder 
Pat Robertson's suggestion that a nuclear device should be used to wipe out the 
State Department was "despicable," department spokesman Richard Boucher said 
Thursday. 
"I lack sufficient capabilities to express my disdain," Boucher said. "I 
think the very idea is despicable." 
A senior State Department official, who did not want to be identified, said 
the department has expressed its displeasure to Robertson. 
Robertson made the comments during a series of interviews on his "700 Club" 
television show with journalist Joel Mowbray, author of a new book, "Dangerous 
Diplomacy: How the State Department Endangers America's Security." 
Robertson founded the Christian Coalition in 1989 after running for U.S. 
president as a Republican in 1988. 
Introducing Mowbray on his show, Robertson said that a reader of his book 
could conclude that the State Department needed a nuclear explosion. 
"I read your book," Robertson said. "When you get through, you say, 'If I 
could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer,' 
and you say, 'We've got to blow that thing up.' I mean, is it as bad as you 
say?" Robertson said. 
"It is," Mowbray said, although his book never suggests that the State 
Department should be blown up with a nuclear device. 
Foggy Bottom is the nickname for the State Department's Washington 
headquarters. 
In a June interview with Mowbray on the "700 Club", Robertson made similar 
remarks. 
"Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things 
up like Newt Gingrich wants to do," he said. 
Robertson was referring to former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who was 
part of a group of conservatives accusing the State Department of undermining 
U.S. foreign policy by coddling authoritarian governments in the Middle East. 

Mowbray has been a critic of the State Department, especially its visa 
program with Saudi Arabia. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers in the September 11, 
2001, attacks were Saudi citizens. 
-- CNN State Department producer Elise Labott contributed to this 
report.

www.ctrl.org
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[CTRL] Pat Robertson wants the State Department blown up; First Lady of Maryland wants Britney Spears shot. What is it about Republicans and violence?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  Pat Robertson, First Lady of Maryland Call for Physical Harm to 
  OthersOct. 10, 2003
  
  
Pat Robertson wants the State Department blown up; First Lady of Maryland 
wants Britney Spears shot. What is it about Republicans and 
  violence?Two interesting stories cropped up today. 
  First, Pat Robertson, the fundamentalist Christian founder of the 700 
  Club and former Republican presidential candidate, endorsed 
  the idea of a nuclear device being planted in the U.S. State Department, 
  presumably blowing up, killing thousands and leveling Foggy Bottom.
  Mr. Robertson made the suggestion when he was interviewing the author of a 
  new anti-State Department book. Robertson, who has been demonizing the 
  Department of State on his television show for quite some time, wrongly 
  attributed the nuclear device "solution" to the author, who never 
  stated in his book that he would like to see the State Department blown 
up.
  In other news, the wife of Maryland Republican Governor Robert Ehrlich, 
  Kendel Ehrlich, stated during a forum on domestic violence 
  that she would personally shoot Britney Spears.
  In both cases, prominent Republican figures, instead of simply debating the 
  issues and letting people decide issues on the merit of their arguments, have 
  decided to call for the death of individuals and organizations they 
oppose.
  Whether or not one dislikes the State Department or Britney Spears, 
  reasonable people tend to agree that violence and death are not rational 
  "solutions" to our problems.
www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Forum Moderator re: Steve Wingate: Final Request to Stop His Abusive Spam to My Private Email Acoount.

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  Steve, you are clearly and obviously 
  an extremely emotionally unbalanced individual. This is not only my 
  observation, but the testimony of other witnesseswho condemn your 
  personal abusiveness and paranoia.
  
  I suggest you contact someone in your 
  vicinity and try and get Professional Counselling and Medical attention 
  immediately.
  
  Re the latter, others here have 
  alluded to your liquor abuse problems; AA do a very good job to assist with 
  controlling the addiction, there are public agencies that help,as do a 
  lot of decent Christian groups in that field; recovery is 
  possible.
  
  I am particularly anxious for the 
  well-being and safety of your spouse orpartner,and kids if you 
  have them, or people possibly living with you; since you sound as if you are 
  totally out of control emotionally and probably capable of doing great 
  physical injury to them, and to yourself also. 
  
  That said, this will be my FINAL 
  REQUEST to you, re these issues and your childish abusive Spam to my private 
  mailbox which is off-limits for any unsolicited mail.
  
  Given youremotionally unbalanced 
  state, if you do not get a grip on yourself and continue in your present 
  capacity as one incapable of self-control, self-restraintand 
  self-moderation; a request will be made to the Moderator, my ISP and yours, 
  along witha notification to the FBI of death threats made by you; that 
  might further assist youto findthat which presently you do not 
  possess; a state of civil and balanced personhood.
  
  Dave.
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] David Sutherland's Psyop Drivel

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  The epithet "drivel" is pure 
  mentalism;a matter ofsubjective interpretation 
  and really means very little and in cases where it is employed by paranoiacs 
  and drunks it'sjust a clumsy and weak-minded verbalism from these people 
  because they loathe others, usually out of paranoid fear, ill-informed 
  ignoranceand the inability to deal with life and their own personal 
  failures and inadequacies.
  
  On the other hand,the very 
  Inquisitorialact of digging through peoples past posts, looking 
  for someminutia of evidentiary 'dirt'to smear and demonise another 
  person,is proof of the workings of a raving and emotionally 
  unbalanced personage.
  
  People with deep personal trauma and 
  anxiety often abuse alcoholas a means oftomask their inner 
  pain and rage;but such abuse leads to far worse complicationsin 
  the mental and physical life.
  
  People who cannot control their 
  excessive liquor habits,combined with deep-seated mental illness; will 
  invariably project their own personal failures and personal inadequacies onto 
  others.
  
  Thus,whilst Steve is himself 
  busied with a Psyop technique, digging for some kind of imagined dirt he 
  thinks he can smear people with; he simultaneously seeks to endow and blame 
  others for the very Psyop activity he himself is actively engaged 
  in.
  
  Fairly childish and infantile 
  stuff.Maybe yet another indictor of how toxic to the mind is the 
  long-term handling of wild, unsubstantiated esoteric gibberish and paranoid 
  conspiracy fantasies, without wearing someprotectivefilter or garb 
  for the mind toshield a possibly permanentcontamination of ones 
  mental state.
  
  Given the testimony of various 
  witnesses about Steve Wingate's drunk-like behaviour and obnoxious character; 
  hisnefarious incessant abuse of other posters, which includes making 
  death threats andother expressions of violentacts toward others in 
  order to cause physical injury; all this is suggestive that he is in urgent 
  need of professional treatment for both his mental phobias and his apparent 
  liquor abuse.
  
  One also hopes to god that children 
  and partner or spouse are not within his vicinity of enraged influence as one 
  would be anxious for both their physical and emotional safety. 
  
  
  Perhaps someone on this forum from the 
  U.S. should get in touch with the police in Steve's area and relay what has 
  transpired. I think, given that children might possibly be involved somewhere 
  in this unsavoury, abusivepicture;it would be 
  duty-derelictof community and social responsibility not to do 
  so.
  
  Dave.


- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Wingate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:27 PM
Subject: [CTRL] David Sutherland's Psyop 
Drivel
-Caveat Lector-An examination of most of your messages posted to 
this mailing list are surprisinglysimilar. Psyop BS.On 2 Oct 2003 at 
12:48, David Sutherland wrote: As sickly humorous as 
this rubbish is; it is also ridiculous Clerico-Xtian-Fascist 
drivel.On 2 Oct 2003 at 11:00, David Sutherland wrote: All 
this personal crock has little to with this list so why not start your own 
listOn 12 Aug 2003 at 20:07, David Sutherland wrote: You 
might have something if "pleasure" were the sole component in a homo 
relationship. Unfortunately, it isn't and numerous emotional and 
psychological factors come into play. Homosexuals have extremely violent 
behaviour patterns beyond the 
'norm'.--ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO 
FILEShttp://www.anomalous-images.comwww.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is 
used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
Available at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo 
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Re: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As American as Baseball

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jim Rarey 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As 
  American as Baseball
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  

  Well said : iNFoWaRZ
  
  JR
  
  
I don't know 
about "well said"; I thought it was not accurate, although to 
somepoint he had a valid point with the American Revolution being 
tempered by Christianity, to the extent that various Protestant sects 
remained nervousover a Stateadopted religion as they had 
experiencedin Europe under popes and potentates. 


They joined the 
secularists and Deists to enshrine the separation of church and state; at 
leastin theory. Ronald Reagan was probablyAmericas greatest 
enemy in allyingand bringing onto bondage the US with the ambitions of 
the Vatican.

It occurred to me 
that the Xtian holy bible recounts how, toward the end of the Gospel 
tales,attempts to save the life of Jesus were made not by most of 
strict and pious holy men, like Xtians today claim they are; sort of 
neo-Jews,but by aSecular governor named Pilate; a representative 
of Rome;then, arguably the New World Order of the 
day.

Dave.





  
www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As American as Baseball

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  Just to also 
  briefly add:

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  iNFoWaRZ 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As 
  American as Baseball
  
  The fact is America had TWO major influences in it's 
  founding, Christianity and the Occult.
  
But who was 
prominent in writing the laws which guaranteed freedom for all. 


The Christian 
sects, whilst many were fleeing persecution,none-the-less came with 
the baggage of autocratic Catholic Europe. 

Theirideas 
of a Christian Social Order were affected by their Catholic heritage; 
however hard they tried to diss it.

These Protestant 
Christian refugees were a scattered coterie whose ideas varied widely and 
were in the primitive formulative stages. 

The Deists on the 
other hand, hada well thought-out Social agenda. 

Their innate 
humanism, their suspicion of despots, autocratic monarchs and popes, forged 
a set of values to ensurethat liberty for all citizenry wouldbe 
a prime objective.

No 
one would say their endeavours were perfect or executed without problems 
andeven a measure of hypocrisy. Yet their aims 
were noble and theircourse led to progressive societal 
liberties.

If Christians had 
been a well organised hierarchic group, they would haveswayed the 
early politics of theUS and without doubt would have transplanted a 
similar spirit to that of Catholic Europeinto the new 
world.

Their lack of a 
cohesive body, theirfear of religious persecution, as experienced in 
CatholicEurope, andtheir dictum of individual freedom; "the 
Liberty of the Gospel,"were more of an influence toward social 
liberties than if they were a large cohesive dominantgroup, who 
probably would havereplicated a system not unlike the one they had 
fled, if for no other reason than that they new no other 
system.

I cite for 
example, the history of the converted Protestant John Calvin, who after 
gainingautonomy from Catholicism and gaining political power for his 
sect, mimicked his former indoctrination in the Catholic Social Order; and 
continued to burn those he considered heretics.

The same would 
have occurred in America were it not for prominent men, fashioned by the 
Enlightenment, whosought political restraint and tolerance for and by 
all religions.
  The only reason the American Revolution succeeded and the French 
  Revolution was a total utter bloody murderous failure was that the French 
  Revolution was not tempered by Christianity.
  
I can agree to a 
limited extant; as per comments above.

The reason the 
French Revolution was so bloody; was because of the 1,000 year rule of 
clericalism and the vast hatred promulgated by clerics against the 
Enlightenment.

Anything which 
wasdubbed heresy or anti-clericalism, was stigmatised as the work of 
the devil. It was a world of fear and hate, of witches and werewolves; a 
demon haunted world, ruled by the clerics, who promoted any type of base 
superstition to keep the gullible in a state of soul and psyche-paralysis. 


The 
ecclesiastical harp-pluckers likewise held swayover education. The men 
who had arisen, and would takethe reigns of the Revolution, were the 
same men who the monks had endowed with their potent superstition and 
world-denying hatreds.

The 
revolutionaries turned on the clerics; and the type of despotic society 
these superstitious world-denying holy men had constructed for over a 
millennia. Indeed, it is a by-word that France was the papacies oldest and 
mosttreasured daughter.

Whilst the men who carried out the bloodiest aspects 
of the Revolution must bearresponsibility for their own actions, 
having men kept in societal dog-cages, in spiritual chains, and with clerics 
as their masters; was sure to make men erupt. Mad dogs aren't naturally 
born, they are generally 
made.

Rousseau himself asserted in The Social Contract, 
circa 1762 that, ‘‘man was born free, but he is everywhere in 
chains".As these men sought emancipation from tyrants and despotic 
clerics;and whilst one cannot condone their bloodiest actions; one 
canto some extentempathise with their 
rage.
  The Christian influence won America Liberty, whereas the Occult won 
  France License.
  
I believe 
otherwise, as per comments above. This "Christian influence," was minor, 
likewisethere was no organised powerful "Occult influence" in France 
either.

The men of the 
Enlightenment were secularists, humanists and deists in search of freedom 
and knowledge, which was hitherto forbidden them by clericalism. 

 

Re: [CTRL] Bush's Oil Move Backfires (Flashback)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  That was most 
  enlightening Stevo.
  
  Did you come by 
  this paranoid information via a crystal ball, or when in communiqué 
  withspace aliensusingthat 
  magicastro-galactic-amulet-transceivers youunearthed in one 
  ofyour time-travel expeditions to ancient 
Atlantis.
  
  But I'm just 
  kidding; and you are probably right. 
  
  I would not for a 
  moment be at all surprised if the Pentagon, NSA, or verily Mr Bush II himself; 
  personally finds time to read the obscure rants reported of him, bya 
  regular half dozen obscure people, on an obscure forum.
  
  If I were you, 
  someone who postsextremely important stuff affecting the survival and 
  future of the human race here,I'd be very cautious at posting my real 
  email address! 
  
  The sinister Intel 
  guys are able to track you downby your email address likethe blood 
  hounds from hell they are;by usingtechnologically 
  advancedWWW sniffer software dude!
  
  Anyhow; take care, 
  and give mybest to all when next on Uranus.
  
  Dave.
  

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Wingate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Bush's Oil Move Backfires 
(Flashback)
-Caveat Lector-So 'Sean' can you at least tell us (or at least me 
privately) why you cannot post yourreal name? You hide behind a yahoo 
address. Why should we not suspect that you are a CIAasset, or worse, much 
much worse, someone from the BUSH administration?Why don't you send me 
your phone number and name so I can interview you for my radioprogram? I 
guess you need to keep a cover. But why? Why 
indeed...Steve--ANOMALOUS 
IMAGES AND UFO FILEShttp://www.anomalous-images.comwww.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
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used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
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[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To 
UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF CTRL 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] Bush's Oil Move Backfires (Flashback)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 3:37 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Bush's Oil Move 
  Backfires (Flashback)
  
  SNIP ---
  
  If you want to grasp what the neocons 
  are all about, read a large stack of issues of Commentary -- their key issues 
  come into focus quite quickly. Everything they say and do revolves 
  around the interests not simply of Israel ina practical sense, but of 
  Israel as a grandiose and messianic myth. The neocons are ethnocentric 
  wankers.
  
  George W. Bush has gone along with the 
  neocons not because of his oil industry connections, but because of his 
  Christian Zionism -- the neocons have exploited that primitive 
  superstition to the hilt.
  
  
You are correct, 
in terms of the perennial Mid-East conflagrations and problems, in the sense 
that oil cannot possibly be the sole motive for whatthe Iraqi 
war.

That is not to 
say it does not have a role. After the horror of the twin towers 
devastation,the "oil weapon" arose as a moreprioritised issue, 
and viewed as an importantinstrument in the potential arsenal of 
unfriendly Arab states.

Likewise,a 
number of other factors played a part, including the removal of Saddam 
Hussein, whichcannot be viewed as a totally cynical gesture, since 
many Iraqi peoples and otheranxious Arabs themselves had genuine Human 
Rights concerns, and had petitioned the global community in general and the 
US in particular, to act againstthedespotic Iraqi 
regime.

In any case, the 
simple fact is,for millennia, many foreign powers have 
pokedtheir political noses into the Mid-East region and been left the 
worse for it; and this was in historic periods when OIL was not even an 
existent or known commodity.

Also, and in 
part,"the no blood for oil" campaign was a chimerawhich 
disguised the multi-faceted aspects of the whole operation; political, 
religious and economic; making it appear that a singular objective alone was 
in play.

This was also an 
important propaganda slogan developed by the Roman Catholic ecclesia, 
whichtoday feels betrayed by Mr Bush II; after he successfully 
captureda good deal of the conservative Catholic American vote, with 
the aid of the pope.

Part of the papal 
angst began when President Bush II, publiclyproclaimed that the 
Infallible pope of Rome, gods very own voice on earth, was wrong 
over his anti-war stance. Such humiliation and snubbery, from all people, 
the leader of the worlds most powerful nation,went down like a lead 
Zeppelin in Vatican circles.

The present toxic 
venin toward Bush II is such that; it has been publicised that many insider 
clerics within the Vatican claim that the Pope considers Bush II, the 
Antichrist. 

Hence, Bush II is 
being presently crucified by so-called anti-Zionists and anti-Neo-Cons 
whomewl theirchorus linesinspirationally Scored by 
clerical theoreticians and propagandists who are centuries-old-practiced in 
the art of malice and hate.

In the past, the 
pope spoke out against the war, but did very little to speak out against 
Saddam'sdespotic regime. 

It was more 
important for the pope to decry and protest American power, even when 
clearly it was used for a good end. 

Given the 
popesalleged high moralturf right beside Jesus;ethical 
people were left to ponder whether the Vatican and the pope had gone troppo, 
assuming they were ever sane in the first place.

Even 
significant European Liberals dissented from their predominantly 
anti-American colleagues, who disguised their anti-Americanism with a 
bloated, sanctimoniousanti-war rhetorical 
facade.

  "I think it's 
  not by chance that the idea of confronting evil may have found more 
  support in those countries that have had a recent experience with 
  totalitarian systems compared with other European countries that haven't 
  had the same sort of recent experience." - Vaclav 
  Havel
The situation of 
the UStoday near-parallels the power of ancient Imperial Rome in the 
Mid-East some two millennia ago. 

The issues the 
Caesars faced in the region were manifold in number; waring religious 
andpolitical factions fighting one another internally and everybody 
else externally; which all tended to impede Rome'smilitary lebensraum 
and its economic interests. Rome, like the US,sought a negotiated 
peace in the region, but alas there was 
none.

The modern State 
of Israel simply would not exist if it were not an inventedand 
empoweredby the Christo-Zionists. 

Religiously, many 
pious Jews themselves see Israel's 

[CTRL] Steve Wingate: Mind Cutting The Personal Spam Death Threats to My Private E-Mail Box! Thanks!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  Well Stevo; these 
  past half-dozen or soerratic and apoplectic posts of yours, along 
  withthe personal abusive spamto my private email box; 
  probablydo typify your avowed personal resoluteness and integrity to 
  postthings that deal only and solely with "issues" of a deep 
  nature.
  
  I would be the 
  first to defend you and will certainly vouch and certify, that you are 
  genuinely and seriouslya personagewith very, verydeep 
  issues.
  
  Dave.

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Wingate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Bush's Oil Move Backfires 
(Flashback)
-Caveat Lector-You're one sick fu*k! It's not surprising the 
creeps can only flame me instead ofdiscussing the issues. All you can do it 
parrot another psyop's bs. You're Sean'spathetic little poodle. Watch out 
when you cross the road, the tiger might be behind 
thewheel.SteveOn 6 Oct 2003 at 13:23, David Sutherland 
wrote: Did you come by this paranoid information via a 
crystal ball, or when in communiqué with space aliens using 
that magic astro-galactic-amulet-transceivers you unearthed in one 
of your time-travel expeditions to ancient 
Atlantis.--ANOMALOUS IMAGES 
AND UFO FILEShttp://www.anomalous-images.comwww.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is 
used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
Available at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo 
subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Kris Millegan's Recent False Charges in CTRL

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




All this 
personal crock haslittle to with this list so why not start your own list 
detailing the malice of your opponent and your personal moral inscrutability, 
just post the link here, and then anyone here who wants to participate or 
observe in anyshape or formcan do so as a matter of their 
choice, rather than presently forcing folks to delete all 
thisnuisance spam, laced with personal gobshyte.

Apart from KM, 
I have don't recall any of the names mentioned in these posts, 
asidesomeemail FWD's from "Webfairy" who appears to be a 
misanthropic fruitcake.

So 
start a list, say T[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ta!
Dave.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean 
  McBride 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:48 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Kris Millegan's 
  Recent False Charges in CTRL
  -Caveat Lector- 
  
  

  Millegan,
  
  Several times now you've been asked to 
  point to any passages in the alleged forged messages which you think that 
  Brian Downing Quig didn't write.
  
  You've failed to respond every 
  time.
  
  You are the only person who has made 
  this false charge that Brian didn't write those messages. No one will 
  support you, especially among the group of people who knew Brian best and who 
  were corresponding with him in private email.
  
  You are unable to explainhow 
  anyone would benefit from these "forged" messages.
  
  Again: whichpassages of the 
  "forged" messages do you believe that Brian didn't write and which didn't 
  express his real views? Your failure to respond to this central question 
  says it all.
  
  Your attempt to connectme 
  withDick Eastman is a classic smear technique. I've had no 
  communications with Eastman, other than to ask him to remove me from his 
  mailing lists, and have condemned his anti-Semitic rantings in the strongest 
  possible way. I think he is a disaster for anyone trying to work through 
  to the truth about 911.
  
  Why do you continue to make these false 
  charges?
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:21 
AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Kris Millegan's 
Recent True Charges in CTRL
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/29/03 
11:04:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
ector-I have stated quite clearly that two forged 
emails were used in a campaign against myself, EIR and the CIA-Drugs group. 
I never said that anyone else said that. I quite clearly stated that you, 
Eastman and webfairy were involved.
When you make the charge, without a shred of evidence, that I 
  was involved in a conspiratorial and secretly coordinated campaign against 
  you and cia-drugs with two forged emails, you are making a FALSE 
  charge. You are either deluded or lying. And you are seriously 
  damaging your credibility among those who know the truth.www.ctrl.org 
  DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  
  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. 
  Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy 
  theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis 
  used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread 
  throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no 
  endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary 
  of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
  not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: 
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  HREF=""ctrl/A 
   To 
  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
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  Om 
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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Re: [CTRL] The Godbot Conspiracy

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  But we also need 
  the possibility of cataclysm, so that, when 
  situations seem hopeless, and beyond the power of 
  any natural force to amend, we may 
  still anticipate salvation from a 
  messiah, a conquering hero, a deus ex machina, 
  or some other agent with power to 
  fracture the unsupportable and institute the 
  unobtainable. --Stephen Jay Gould, Questioning the 
  Millennium 
  _ 
  Deus ex machina is New Latin for "god from the 
  machine"; it is a translation of the Greek theos ek 
  mekhanes.
  
  Dave.

- Original Message - 

From: "Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:21 
AM
Subject: [CTRL] The Godbot 
Conspiracy
 -Caveat Lector-   * 
http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **  -- Forwarded message 
-- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: 
Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: [AI-Arms-Race] GODBOT ... why not?  Since God is 
omnipotent, He can speak to us through any aspect of His creation, 
including the person of a man. So why not a robot? Some time in this 
century, AI will advance so far that socially interacting robots will 
surpass us in every measurable aspect of intelligence. Their theological 
expressions will be so far superior to that of man that homo sapiens 
will have a strange kind of variation on the Turing Test. Just as 
Christians 2,000 years ago wondered how they could differentiate a 
super-special man and God speaking through that man, humans will wonder 
if Godbot is not God speaking through a robot. What kind of robotheology 
would it take to pass that kind of Turing Test?  Will 
Godbot pose a threat to national security? Don't you think DARPA should 
create at least a way of differentiating a real Godbot from a bogus 
Godbot?  POC    
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or 
Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. 
Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US  Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/uY7plB/TM 
-~- 
 "The day may be 10-20 years from now when we will have a HAL...we are 
working on it at Ames...it is not science fiction." -Daniel Goldin, 
Chief NASA Administrator, 2001 AD on Discovery TV  To 
unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/  www.ctrl.org DECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational 
exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. 
Substanceâ?"not soap-boxingâ?"please! These are sordid 
matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis- 
directions and outright fraudsâ?"is used politically by different groups 
with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and 
thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of 
posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL 
gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
 
Archives Available at:  http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A 
 
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: 
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 Om 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As American as Baseball

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  As sickly humorous 
  as this rubbish is; it is also ridiculous Clerico-Xtian-Fascist 
  drivel.
  
  The author is 
  apparently clueless to the fact that the origins of 'Illuminati Conspiracy's 
  fantasy was penned by the Roman Catholic Jesuits. The fevered anti-Semitic 
  imaginations of the RC Jesuits led them to finally 'expose' the Jews as 
  themastersofthe Illuminati.
  
  
  The prime source of 
  this conspiracy theory (latter 1700's) was the Jesuit cleric Abbe' 
  Augustin Barruel who published hisparanoid conspiracy 
  manifesto,"Memoires pour servir a l'Histoire du Jacobinisme or 
  Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism,"which blamed a 
  vast, arcaneIlluminati conspiracy, and the Freemasons 
  as part of the Illuminati apparatus, as being out to destroy Catholic 
  Europe.
  
  If one 
  compares the idealism of Adam Weishaupt with the nonsensical babblings of the 
  clerics of his day, in the modern world one would have to say that the clerics 
  appear completely bigoted and mad, whilst Weishaupt sounds an utterly 
  reasonable personage.
  
  When Thomas 
  Jefferson was handed some of the Jesuit Barruel's paranoid conspiracy writ, he 
  had cause to denounce them as the rants of a lunatic. 
  
  Fundi Xtians talk 
  much about a return to the roots of Americanism and in the same breath 
  denounce Illuminati or Masonic ideals simultaneouslyliving in a state of 
  amnesia to the fact that the ideals of 
  thesegroupswerethe 
  source of foundational principles of America and because of 
  these principles the early Christians enjoyed the freedoms they did. 
  
  
  Most of those first 
  Christians were Protestant sects in one form or another taking flight from 
  persecution and deathlevelled against them by Catholic 
  Europe.
  
  An important 
  objective in the establishment of American liberty, Masons, Protestants, 
  Freethinkers, and dare one say it Jews and Pagans all sought to rightfully 
  establish the wall of separation between religion and 
  state. This principle of human liberty is under the most 
  malignant attack in America. As can be seen by the words the article, "We 
  need good men in every institution, on every corner, and in 
  every family to stand up for the good of our world".We are told 
  that these sole"good men" are thoseFundi- idolaters, 
  apocalyptic doomsayers,"reading Revelations!" What an 
  insult to the intelligence of every non-ecclesiastically brainwashed 
  person.
  
  In substance, on the 
  one hand Rightists, Xtain Fundi's, Conspiracy kooks allpine for certain 
  alleged traditional root-values of Americanism, whilst on the other they 
  simultaneously assert that the evil Masons and et al established America! 
  
  
  Such schizophrenic 
  attitudes perhaps reflect the dumbed-down, illogical and brainwashed state of 
  many professed Xtians in America. It is no wonder they are held as a 
  laughing-stock and in derision throughout the world by civilized, intelligent 
  people.
  
  Should Americans 
  listen to these schizophrenic, paranoidvoices, and allow them more 
  authority and power, they will by no means be returning to some idyllic, 
  foundational Americanism, but to a medievalism run by superstitious monks and 
  a hierocracy not unlike some Arab lands today in the grip of intolerant, 
  raving mad mullahs.
  
  Dave.


- conspiracy Message - 
From: "iNFoWaRZ" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 
PM
Subject: [CTRL] Occult Symbolism: As American as 
Baseball
-Caveat Lector-Occult Symbolism: As American as BaseballBy 
Randy LavelloFrom: www.prisonplanet.comMuch mystery and exaggeration surrounds the influence of Freemasonry on 
the birth and growth of these United States. Freemasonry was conducted in 
private with exclusive membership; it comes under the title of an occult group 
because, by definition, this is a group that conducts business in private with 
exclusive initiation. While most of its members have been good men, of course 
there are those who spoil the image. there are instances of Freemasonry's 
exploitation as a training ground for other, malevolent groups.American 
Freemasonry's history goes back as far as American History. in some ways they 
are parallel. George Washington was the Grand Master of a Lodge, and there were 
even actions taken to create the rank of Grand Master of the whole of the United 
States for him. According to the Grand Lodge of Texas, "On September 18, 1783, 
President George Washington dressed in his Masonic apron, leveled the 
cornerstone of the United States Capitol with the traditional Masonic ceremony." 
Eight signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons: Benjamin 
Franklin, Robert Treat Paine, John Handcock, Richard Stockton, Joseph Hewes, 
George Walton, William Hooper, and William Whipple. Thirteen who signed the 
United States Constitution were Freemasons: Gunning Bradford Jr., John Blair, 

[CTRL] Fake religious leaders created by USA

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-






Fake religious leaders created by USA 
By Tabassum Zakaria September 23, 2003 - 1:42PM 

The CIA paid Mullahs and created fake Islamic religious leaders to preach a 
moderate message and counter anti-American sentiment in the Arab world after the 
September 11 attacks, a new book said today. 
The CIA at War - written by Ronald Kessler, an investigative reporter 
and author of several books about the CIA and the FBI, also detailed espionage 
activity in Iraq that supported the March invasion that toppled President Saddam 
Hussein. 
For the book, made available to Reuters in advance of its October 
publication, Kessler interviewed CIA Director George Tenet in May and other 
senior CIA officials. The agency supplied most of the photographs in the book. 

"In Islam, as in many other religions, anyone can call himself a religious 
leader," he said in the book. 
"So, besides paying Mullahs, the CIA created fake Mullahs - recruited agents 
who would proclaim themselves clerics and take a more moderate position about 
nonbelievers." 
"We are taking over radio stations and supporting clerics," a CIA source was 
quoted as saying. "It's back to propaganda. We are creating moderate Muslims." 

Kessler said the CIA also paid for Mullahs to issue fatwas, or religious 
edicts, urging Iraqis not to resist American forces. He did not specify the 
countries this took place in. 
He said the CIA planted tiny video cameras to track former Iraqi President 
Saddam Hussein, his sons, and other officials, and monitor the position of Iraqi 
troops and suspected weapons of mass destruction facilities. 
Electronic beacons were attached to the undersides of cars that Saddam might 
use and radar-imaging sensors were dragged across the ground to look for hidden 
underground bunkers and storage facilities, the book said. 
He did not say exactly when such activities took place. 
Shedding light on how a major pre-war threat was averted - that Saddam would 
blow up his oil wells - Kessler says the CIA and US Special Forces paid Iraqi 
guards who protected the wells to snip wires to explosive devices after the war 
began. 
To communicate with Iraqi agents the CIA gave them devices such as satellite 
phones hidden in rifles and laptop computers with programs hidden in innocuous 
games or graphics that could send and receive encrypted documents, he said. 
The CIA also used a secret writing technique dating to biblical days, in 
which Iraqi agents wrote over innocuous letters to aunts or mothers through a 
second piece of paper treated with chemicals, and the hidden message would show 
up when placed under a special light, according to the book. 
Tenet was quoted as saying it was up to him to accept responsibility for any 
mistakes related to the September 11, 2001, attacks and not blame specific 
employees as some in Congress had requested. Otherwise it could chill 
risk-taking essential to the CIA's mission. 
"If you think this is about protecting your image or yourself, you're 
finished. Forget it," Tenet was quoted as saying. 
"Nobody is perfect. But guys who have never run anything in their lives, who 
have never taken any risk in their lives, who have never managed a large work 
force, will tell you how to suck eggs and how to do your job on a daily basis. 
If you listen to them, you're listening to the wrong people," he said. 
Kessler said the CIA used operatives from intelligence services in Arab 
countries including Jordan, Syria, and Egypt to infiltrate al-Qaeda, develop 
intelligence, but also sow suspicion so members of the network would kill each 
other, the book said. Al-Qaeda was blamed for the attacks. 
- Reuters 

This story was found at: 
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082975769.html 







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[CTRL] Tudjman just couldn't wait to rewrite and edit history

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  
Tudjman just couldn't wait to rewrite and edit 
  historyAugust 22 2003 at 8:00 
  AM

  

  

  

  New study questions values taught in 
  Croatia’s textbooksBy Vlasta KovacZAGREB, Croatia, Dec. 17 
  (JTA) — Croatian textbooks are teaching violence and 
  intolerance.This was the conclusion drawn by Natasha Jovicich, who 
  initiated a study of 23 textbooks used in Croatian elementary 
  schools.Jovicich is the new director of the museum at Jasenovac, 
  the concentration camp operated by Croatia’s wartime Ustashe fascist 
  regime. She initiated the study to draw attention to the basic values 
  being taught to Croatian children.The textbooks were analyzed by a 
  group of high school teachers, with special emphasis on subjects like 
  history and literature.The results, which Jovicich called 
  “shocking,” appeared in the latest edition of the Croatian weekly magazine 
  Globus. Among the findings:• In a history book for eighth graders, 
  British Prime Minister Winston Churchill is ridiculed by being depicted as 
  a bulldog sitting on the British flag.• On the same page, there is 
  a photograph of a yellow Star of David, and a caption saying, “The Jews 
  had to wear a special mark, the Star of David. This is a six-pointed star. 
  It consists of two triangles, which symbolize the sky and the earth.” 
  There is no mention of the discrimination suffered by those forced to wear 
  the symbol.• The same history book shows the picture of Croatian 
  wartime leader Ante Pavelic. The accompanying caption describes him as “a 
  jurist, politician and the founder of the Ustashe movement,” but makes no 
  mention of the war crimes committed under his rule.“This textbook 
  is a dangerous manipulation of history,” professor Rosana Ratkovchich, one 
  of those conducting the study, wrote in her conclusion.The book 
  was guilty of “relativizing” fascism and the antifascist struggle to the 
  point of rendering them morally indistinguishable, she wrote.A 
  caption that appears under a photo of Normandy Beach on D-Day, she wrote, 
  creates the impression that the German army had moral superiority during 
  the war.Jovicich was quoted in Globus as saying that there is a 
  “direct connection with the kind of intolerance that we find in these 
  textbooks and the growing violence manifested by young people.”A 
  recent concert in the Croatian coastal town of Split, for example, 
  attracted some 40,000 young people to the soccer stadium. Many of them 
  wore the Ustashe insignia and waved Nazi flags.The incident 
  prompted some Croatian legislators to sponsor a bill that would 
  criminalize the glorification of Nazi ideology.The bill is still 
  being debated in Parliament.Until recently, Jovicich worked in 
  Croatia’s Ministry of Education, where she initiated several pilot 
  programs to introduce Holocaust education into Croatian schools.In 
  October, she proposed that Croatia join an international task force 
  dedicated to promoting Holocaust education.Croatia is now being 
  monitored by four members of the task force — the United States, Israel, 
  France and Argentina — to see what will come out of plans to introduce 
  Holocaust education in Croatian schools.Meanwhile, the Jewish 
  community of Zagreb, which has been promised $20,000 from the Claims 
  Conference to train educators to teach about the Holocaust, reached an 
  agreement with the Adam Institute in Jerusalem to organize a seminar on 
  the topic.About 16 instructors are planning to attend the seminar 
  next month. Later, they will organize workshops and train others to teach 
  the subject.
  ---The Catholic Church says 
  that it is impermissible to use any sort of contraception for birth 
  control. Women who were exposed to mass rapes during the war in Bosnia 
  were allowed to use contraceptives, but under one important condition. If 
  they knew or had a premonition that they were going to be raped, they had 
  the obligation, before taking contraceptives, to run, or 
  avoid.Tonci Matulic, in Glas Koncila [newspaper published 
  by the Catholic Church in Croatia], March 
  2001.
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL 

Re: [CTRL] The New Diamond Age

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Interesting article - a good read! Hope the technology side gets a look in
and a decent promo -- and economical enough to be of benefit and use to all.

Dave.



- Original Message -
From: Joshua Tinnin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:52 PM
Subject: [CTRL] The New Diamond Age


 -Caveat Lector-

 http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond_pr.html

 The New Diamond Age

 Armed with inexpensive, mass-produced gems, two startups are launching an
 assault on the De Beers cartel.
 Next up: the computing industry.

 By Joshua Davis

 Aron Weingarten brings the yellow diamond up to the stainless steel
 jeweler's loupe he holds against his eye. We are in Antwerp, Belgium, in
 Weingarten's marbled and gilded living room on the edge of the city's gem
 district, the center of the diamond universe. Nearly 80 percent of the
 world's rough and polished diamonds move through the hands of Belgian gem
 traders like Weingarten, a dealer who wears the thick beard and black suit
 of the Hasidim.

 This is very rare stone, he says, almost to himself, in thickly accented
 English. Yellow diamonds of this color are very hard to find. It is
 probably worth 10, maybe 15 thousand dollars.

 I have two more exactly like it in my pocket, I tell him.

 He puts the diamond down and looks at me seriously for the first time. I
 place the other two stones on the table. They are all the same color and
 size. To find three nearly identical yellow diamonds is like flipping a
coin
 10,000 times and never seeing tails.

 These are cubic zirconium? Weingarten says without much hope.

 No, they're real, I tell him. But they were made by a machine in
Florida
 for less than a hundred dollars.

 Weingarten shifts uncomfortably in his chair and stares at the glittering
 gems on his dining room table. Unless they can be detected, he says,
 these stones will bankrupt the industry.

 Put pure carbon under enough heat and pressure - say, 2,200 degrees
 Fahrenheit and 50,000 atmospheres - and it will crystallize into the
hardest
 material known. Those were the conditions that first forged diamonds deep
in
 Earth's mantle 3.3 billion years ago. Replicating that environment in a
lab
 isn't easy, but that hasn't kept dreamers from trying. Since the mid-19th
 century, dozens of these modern alchemists have been injured in accidents
 and explosions while attempting to manufacture diamonds.

 Recent decades have seen some modest successes. Starting in the 1950s,
 engineers managed to produce tiny crystals for industrial purposes - to
coat
 saws, drill bits, and grinding wheels. But this summer, the first wave of
 gem-quality manufactured diamonds began to hit the market. They are grown
in
 a warehouse in Florida by a roomful of Russian-designed machines spitting
 out 3-carat roughs 24 hours a day, seven days a week. A second company, in
 Boston, has perfected a completely different process for making
 near-flawless diamonds and plans to begin marketing them by year's end.
This
 sudden arrival of mass-produced gems threatens to alter the public's
 perception of diamonds - and to transform the $7 billion industry. More
 intriguing, it opens the door to the development of diamond-based
 semiconductors.

 Diamond, it turns out, is a geek's best friend. Not only is it the hardest
 substance known, it also has the highest thermal conductivity - tremendous
 heat can pass through it without causing damage. Today's speedy
 microprocessors run hot - at upwards of 200 degrees Fahrenheit. In fact,
 they can't go much faster without failing. Diamond microchips, on the
other
 hand, could handle much higher temperatures, allowing them to run at
speeds
 that would liquefy ordinary silicon. But manufacturers have been loath
even
 to consider using the precious material, because it has never been
possible
 to produce large diamond wafers affordably. With the arrival of Gemesis,
the
 Florida-based company, and Apollo Diamond, in Boston, that is changing.
Both
 startups plan to use the diamond jewelry business to finance their attempt
 to reshape the semiconducting world.

 But first things first. Before anyone reinvents the chip industry, they'll
 have to prove they can produce large volumes of cheap diamonds. Beyond
 Gemesis and Apollo, one company is convinced there's something real here:
De
 Beers Diamond Trading Company. The London-based cartel has monopolized the
 diamond business for 115 years, forcing out rivals by ruthlessly
controlling
 supply. But the sudden appearance of multicarat, gem-quality synthetics
has
 sent De Beers scrambling. Several years ago, it set up what it calls the
Gem
 Defensive Programme - a none too subtle campaign to warn jewelers and the
 public about the arrival of manufactured diamonds. At no charge, the
company
 is supplying gem labs with sophisticated machines designed to help
 distinguish man-made from mined stones.

 In its long history, De Beers has survived African 

Re: [CTRL] [THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] Dialectic-of-the-Dialectic Experiment (fwd)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Wellperhaps it only suggests that 
peoplesimply think that there are worse things thancolloquialisms 
for fellatio and sexual union. Both of the latter, the majority of the human 
race appear tocondone as being quite pleasurable.

Dave.



- Original Message - 
From: "Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 4:39 
AM
Subject: [CTRL] [THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] 
Dialectic-of-the-Dialectic Experiment (fwd)
-Caveat Lector--- Forwarded message --Date: 
Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT)From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] 
Dialectic-of-the-Dialectic ExperimentInteresting, 
isn't it? FUCK and COCKSUCKER do not get censored off thesubject line of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but any 
mention of "holocaustdenial" WILL cause a howl of protest and removal from 
the list. Butholocaust denial for ONE HOLOCAUST ONLY. Other lesser people of 
the worlddo not rate.Does that tell you who is at the top of "Totem 
and Taboo" in America? Doesthe wooden figure have a hooked nose with an 
everted lower lip? Is there abagel beneath it? Is Gary Puppet-Head Baer 
s*g the c**k of thehook-nosed bagle-eater at the bottom of the 
totem?THERE you have the TOTEM of Babylon-the-Whore. Who could have 
spelled itout any better for you but, the fabled,POC'ster and 
Bagle-hole merchant,Zandu Goldbar,Learned Elder of 
Zion * 
chttp://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens *** Let us 
talk about what we are not supposed to talk about until we know good-speak from 
bad-speak; Whitehouse moronspeak from smartspeak. What is the code of totem and 
taboo under Whitehouse-Orwellian "newspeak" as it was called in 1984? What is 
"doubleplus ungood crimethink" in Orwell's classic? 
*Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/www.ctrl.orgDECLARATION  
DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange 
list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not 
soap-boxingâ?"please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright fraudsâ?"is 
used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread 
throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no 
endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary 
of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 
not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat 
Lector.Archives 
Available at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A HREF="">ctrlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo 
subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

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[CTRL] Jews sued for 'stealing' gold in Exodus

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  
  
This is a 
  WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which follows. 
  To view this item online, visit 
  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34227 
   
  Friday, August 22, 2003
  

  
LAW OF THE LANDJews sued for 'stealing' gold in ExodusEgyptians to seek compensation for 'tons' allegedly taken
  
  Posted: August 22, 20035:00 p.m. Eastern
  
  
©2003WorldNetDaily.com 
  As attorneys and politicians grapple over the validity of slave 
  reparations, a group of Egyptians have trumped the debate with a claim 
  against Jews that dates back thousands of years. 
  Dr. Nabil Hilmi, a dean at the University of Al-Zaqaziq, said Egyptian 
  expatriates in Switzerland are mounting a massive lawsuit against "all 
  Jews around the world" that seeks compensation for "tons" of gold they 
  claim was stolen during the Jews' exodus out of the country. 
  Hilmi described the suit in an interview with the Egyptian weekly 
  Al-Ahram Al-Arabi. 
  "Since the Jews make various demands of the Arabs and the world, and 
  claim rights that they base on historical and religious sources, a group 
  of Egyptians in Switzerland has opened the case of the so-called 'great 
  exodus of the Jews from Pharaonic Egypt.' At that time, they stole from 
  the Pharaonic Egyptians gold, jewelry, cooking utensils, silver ornaments, 
  clothing, and more, leaving Egypt in the middle of the night with all this 
  wealth, which today is priceless," Hilmi told the paper, according to a 
  translation by the Middle East Media Research 
  Institute. 
  Claiming the alleged theft was documented in Exodus, Chapter 35, verses 
  12 through 36 in the Torah, Hilmi described how a convoy of 600,000 Jews 
  trailed by a long line of donkeys loaded with the stolen goods – including 
  300,000 kg of gold – crossed the desert in the heart of Sinai, in an 
  attempt to confuse Pharaoh's army. 
  "The Egyptian Pharaoh was surprised one day to discover thousands of 
  Egyptian women crying under the palace balcony, asking for help and 
  complaining that the Jews stole their clothing and jewels, in the greatest 
  collective fraud history has ever known," the MEMRI translation quotes 
  Hilmi as saying. "The thieves stole everything imaginable." 
  "One of the women approached Pharaoh, her eyes downcast, and said that 
  her Jewish neighbor who lived in the house on the right of her house had 
  come to her and asked to borrow her gold items, claiming she had been 
  invited to a wedding," Hilmi continued. "The Jewish neighbor took [the 
  items] and promised to return them the next day. A few minutes later, the 
  neighbor to the left knocked on the door and asked to borrow the cooking 
  utensils, because she was having guests for dinner. Using this same 
  deceitful system, they took possession of all the cooking utensils." 
  Hilmi estimates the nominal value of the 300 tons of gold purportedly 
  stolen 5,758 years ago would be astronomically large. He figures the value 
  doubled every 20 years and conservatively tacks on 5 percent interest. 
  Hilmi said a legal team will file the lawsuit after the calculation of 
  the compensation is completed. 
  "If [the alleged theft] is for the purpose of borrowing, legally it has 
  a temporary dimension, not a permanent dimension, and therefore they must 
  return [the gold], with interest, to its owners," he said. "On the other 
  hand, if the Jews took the goods from the Egyptians not for the purpose of 
  borrowing it but to keep them for themselves, by legal norms this is 
  theft, and therefore they must return the stolen goods to their owners, in 
  addition to the interest for its use over the entire period of the theft." 

  Related special offers: 
  Cecil 
  B. DeMille's 'The 10 Commandments' 
  Understanding 
  the 10 Commandments
  
  

  


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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Catholic Hitler With Nazi Photos!

[David Sutherland]

Title: Message
-Caveat Lector-



I very much doubt that one-godder-theists with 
their plethora of squabblesinternal andexternal, often over the most 
banal of theological minutia, need any help toward schism and dysfunctional 
'unity'from so-called New Agers. Monotheists do a far better job of 
screwing each other over than any outsiders. They have shed each others blood 
over such profound societal issues as to whether god is one person or 
three.

Roman Catholicism (aka 
Globalism), is a political totalitarian system which masquerades as 
areligious faith. Ithas spilt more human blood than any other pseudo 
religious organism.

The Nazi's had simply learnt from their Roman 
Catholic monks, clerics and mentors - on the Jews for example:

"The isolation of Jews into ghetto 
camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally 
the burning of the people--- Hitler learned it all from the Church. However, the 
Church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a 
quicker death, choking them first with gas." "The clergymen don't tell you whom 
to kill; they just tell you whom to hate." [Dr. Dagobert Runes, 
Historian, child of a Holocaust victim.]
European nations were also incited by an official 
RC Jesuit publication, "Civilta Cattolica", which promoted anti-Semitism 
and encouraged exclusion of Jews from all of Europe. The Vatican willingly 
concurred with opinions of many of her fanatical and vociferous anti-Semitic 
Jesuit intellectuals.
The JesuitEnrico Rosa for example, an editor 
at La Civilta Cattolica, whose articles had been published was regarded 
as an anti-modernist opinion leader who supported the traditional attitudes and 
values of the Vatican and, in particular, a segregationist solution to the 
Jewish Question. That solution has been 
characterized as "permissible anti-Semitism". 
In one article he had "conceded"  or in reality he 
had promoted the idea  that "if the Jews are on our soil, they have not 
come to it innocently, but rather in order to take it away from us Christians, 
or to plot against our faith," since ultimately "they 
are an enemy whose goal is to appropriate our land and deprive us of heaven." 

As if to deliberately goad Hitler into proving that 
it was possible, he had noted that a remedy such as "expulsion of 
Jews as foreigners"  would not be possible in a generalized way, 
especially if it had to be applied in all civilized countries. 
"Indeed," he noted, "it would contravene Gods plan," which 
requires the preservation of Israel, even though it is 
dispersed, as a "concrete argument for the truth of Christianity." 
[Emphasis added.] Few statements could have been contrived to inflame Hitlers 
messianic passion and determination any more than that.
After some of the truth 
of what Nazi Germany had done was disclosed, some 15 years after the events, 
Pope John XXIII was aghast at what had been done to the Jews in the name of God 
and Jesus. He wrote anentreaty and addressed it to the Christian 
world:
"The mark of Cain is stamped upon our 
foreheads. Across the centuries, our brother Abel has lain in blood which we 
drew, and shed tears we caused by forgetting Thy love. Forgive us, Lord, for the 
curse we falsely attributed to their name as Jews."
Those who did rescue the mass murderers from the 
hand of justice were not solely the likes of Peron and his secret police but the 
Roman Catholic church and its emissaries. 
It was the Roman Catholic church which, through its 
priests, churches, monasteries and forged Vatican passports, managed to foil the 
post-war hunt for Nazi criminals. 
Consider that in an 
allegedlymodern, scientific, intelligent society the irrational and 
obsequious actafront (a likely homosexual or paedophile) malecleric 
acting the part of a magician whomiraculously transforms wine and a potato 
chip wafer into the "real blood andreal flesh" of a 2,000 year dead man 
and then has folks communally engage ina ritual act of deistic 
cannibalism.
It's unhelpful to the cause of truth to cover-up 
this institution and its clerics adoption and promulgation of Hitler and the 
Nazi movement by deflecting nonsensical blame upon New Age-ism which at best is 
a disorganised milieu of esoteric thought rather than ahierarchical and 
political power structure like the Vatican with agents loyal to the pope and a 
foreign State (i.e. Vatican City) in every sector of our society - Religious, 
Military, Corporate and the Intelligence Services. 

Zuukie's deflection of the Vatican's involvement 
is essentially identical to the 1998 obfuscation employed by thecurrent 
popeemployed to misdirect attention from the Vatican's Nazi collaboration 
and support, towards blame on someethereal and abstract pagan occultism, 
"The Shoah was the work of a thoroughly modern neo-pagan regime" 
claimed the Roman pontiff. The term "neo-pagan" isof course 
another idiom employed by various religious fundamentalists for the now quite 

[CTRL] Of Fags Fundis

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




You might have something if 
"pleasure" were the sole component in a homo relationship. Unfortunately, it 
isn't andnumerous emotional and psychological factors come into play. 
Homosexuals have extremely violent behaviour patterns beyond the 'norm'. 

In warfare, special enthusiasm 
for violence, warfare, and domination was long ago demonstrated to be a quality 
associated with the most extreme style of butch homosexuality. Historians, in 
recognition of this association, mention the example of ancient Egyptian 
warriors, who raped enemy soldiers after defeating them in battle.

So too, the existence of 
homosexual rape, or at least serious exploitation, was a common practice in 
ancient Athens. The Greeks did not 
expect the passive partner in a homosexual relationship to derive physical 
pleasure from an encounter. Suchclaims suggest a pattern of butch 
homosexuals dominating weaker men. 
Recognizing that they were the most ferocious fighters, Greek military 
strategists designated pairs of soldiers involved in homosexual relationships as 
combat teams. 
A 1933 Nation article also discusses the Nazis' belief that the pure 
Aryans were descended from the Greeks. Recalling an event in Greek military 
history, it adds: "The 300 who held the pass of 
Thermopylae were 150 pairs of lovers." 
Scientifically and pragmatically, 
homosexuality isn't something the human species and its plumbing are geared to – 
particularity its survival.Perhaps down the track, as human science and 
genetics advance, technology will spawn some form of omni-sexual being and 
society will be convinced it is the preferred 'norm'. 

In such a possibleworld, 
perhaps both homo's and hetro's will become the minority and even Fundi's and 
Fags will have to unite (was that a double entendre?) to be heard amidst the 
omni-sexual vox populi.Self righteous religionists have always been 
hypocrites. Take the well-known New Testament narrative of the woman caught in 
adultery, a major sin whichnecessitated the death by stoning of the female 
so discovered. 

Rather than condemn the accused 
woman, Jesus turns the tables on her male religious accusers and denounces them 
as the more guilty party and the real law-breakers - the implication being that 
her male accusers were her adulterous lovers and sexual users.The guilty 
always find scapegoats. Adultery, likemost religious-sin crime, is 
not a crime whilst secret. Only when it reaches the public orb does it become 
real or as we Aussies would say, 'fair-dinkum' sin and hence 
punishable.The pablum, 'do not harm anyone' is a little abstract and 
fascicle. Many Fag Fundi's are no less intolerant than their religious 
counterparts. 

It could be argued 
scientifically, pragmatically and philosophically that Homo's harm the potential 
survival and existence of the human race. 

Perspectives on morality and 
anti-moralit vary a lot and are extremely subjective - what is perceived as harm 
and pain in one group passes as not hurtful and pleasurable to another. 


Societies in general are 
conservative, manipulated by “totem and taboo” and administered by the overseer 
prophets of Religion and of the State, namely priests and politicians. These 
rulers dissect and compartmentalise societal clusters, much like the 
Corporatists, so they have targeted prepacked messages and goods to sell to 
specific consumer audiences. Even formerly fragmented mobs will often unite in a 
common cause or enemy.

Dictators have a way of stirring 
and creating societal ire to enhance or pave the road to power. Perceived and 
manufactured dilemmas require solutions which Autocrats have up their 
sleeve.

In 1936 Heinrich Himmler, head of 
all police forces and the SS, established the Reich's Central Agency for the 
Struggle Against Homosexuality and Abortion. In 1943, after three years of 
preparation by the Ministries of the Interior and of Justice, the law entitled 
Protection of Marriage, Family, Motherhood called for the death penalty for 
“extreme cases”.

During times of social stress, 
humanity usually regresses into the idea of the family. In the 1920s, the Ku 
Klux Klan urged the nation to adopt family values and the return to old-time 
religion.Similarly, Adolf Hitler launched a family-values regimen. An 
aspect of Hitler's methodology centred on his ideas of motherhood. 

Fanatics in the Ku Klux Klan, the 
Nazi Party, the Hezbollah, or any other intolerant organization refer to 
themselves as warriors often in religious terminology. As warriors, fanatics 
censor the thoughts of others and love to burn books – and people.In the 
modern United 
States new proponents of family values continue 
this tradition of fear and intolerance.

In Nazi Germany whilst the pink 
triangle was the badge which Nazis required homosexuals to wear in concentration 
camps other homosexuals socialised and benefited from both Hitler and his elite 
troupe. No hoi polloi homosexual plebeians mixing with hoity-toity 

Re: [CTRL] [THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] Mel Gibson's Jesus / Jews as Christ-killers (fwd)

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Mel is a bloke who not only knows how to juggle 
his balls, (as his profession was once known), but also knows how to exploit, 
promote and show them offso as to get lots of bums on theatre seats and 
lots of Dollar$ in his ever-bourgeoning bank account!

The Gospel accounts indicate that some of the 
Jews were responsible for plotting the murder of Jesus just as much as they 
state that the Romans were Christs final executioners.

However, at the end of the day, central to the NT 
and Gospel narrative is not who plotted or done the physical deed, but that 
Jesus bore the 'sins of the whole world' and that not one individual present 
andpast living or dead can escape that judgement.

It is the most absurd and idiotic thing to call 
flics and tales about Jesus anti-Semitic becausethey are tales written and 
told for, byand about Jews.

If you want anti-Semitic literature, the finest 
you will ever find is the Hebrew Old Testament itself. You can't tell me that's 
a story of a deity happy witha nation ofso-called "chosen 
people".
Dave.


- 
Original Message -From: "Party of Citizens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 
Monday, August 04, 2003 7:01 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] 
[THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] Mel Gibson's Jesus /Jews as Christ-killers 
(fwd) -Caveat 
Lector- * http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens ** -- Forwarded message 
-- Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: 
Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: Re: [THE-DIALECTIC-OF-THE-DIALECTIC] Mel Gibson's Jesus / Jews 
as Christ-killers The Jews are 
probably correct as you note below about "Christians" which is why I am 
not one. OTOH, what kind of "Christian" sides with the Jewish claim to 
be the "lost sheep of Israel" sought by Jesus Christ? NONE of 
those Jews to whom you refer are PRO- the teachings of Jesus Christ. All 
are ANTI- the teachings of Jesus Christ, ie all are among the 
'antichrists' in I John 2:22. Show us where Jesus Christ says, 
"Love MY enemies". He only says, "Love YOUR enemies". 
POC (Learned Elders of 
Zion) * http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens ** On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Bob S. 
wrote:   I love the controversy over Mel 
Gibson's Jesus movie, THE PASSION!  (See article below my 
rant.)   The Jews say that Gibson portrays Jews as 
Christ-killers.  Jews don't say that Jewish movies, comic books, 
etc. often ridicule  Christianity  insult the Christian 
faith.   Ha ha.   For example 
Mel Brooks' BLAZING SADDLES portrays a Christian  congregation as a 
bunch of morons  Jew Gene Wilder analyzes  Christian 
congregation thusly, "these are common-clave people ...  You know, 
MORONS."   Jewish (Vertigo/DC - COHANIM president  
editor-in-chief Jeanette  Kahn) comic book series PREACHER had Grail 
cult kidnapping children  of Jesus  Mary Magdalene, 
incestuously interbredding them for 2000  years for second coming of 
idiot descendant offspring of Jesus!   Futurama comic 
book story CHRISTMAS issue had Futurama crew doing  zombie Jesus 
play. Get it? Christians believe that Jesus rose from  dead, so Jews 
say Jesus must be zombie. Zombie Jesus libel was also  on tv series 
in episode likely written by goddamn Jew.   Mel Gibson 
is member of reactionary Catholic sect which rejects  Vatican II. 
Before Vatican II Catholic Church called Jews "Christ-  killers." 
Since Vatican II, Catholic Church characterized Jews  as 
"perfidious", only stopped calling Jews "perfidious" few years  
ago.   http://www.thesoutherncross.co.za/church%20and%20judaism.htm  http://www.americancatholic.org/messenger/jul2000/feature2_sidebara.a  sp   quoting 
 1959-Pope John XXIII orders that the reference to "perfidious Jews" 
 be removed from the Good Friday liturgy. These prayers were  
completely revised after Vatican II. Between 1959 and 1963, Pope  
John XXIII meets with individual Jewish leaders and with Jewish  
groups. Pope Paul VI continues this practice.  
quoting   http://www.volasia.com/forum/topicDisplay.php?topicID=288  http://www.catholicism.org/News/rabbigibson.htmBob is neither Catholic 
nor Jew.  Bob is not religious Christian but is ethnic 
Christian.  Bob is agnostic who HATES Zionism  double-standard 
where is OK for  Jews to insult Christians but isn't OK for 
Christians to insult Jews. 
Mel Gibson's Jesus / Jews as Christ-killers   http://angrywhitefemale.net/mel-gibson.html   The Passion, a movie being directed by 
Mel Gibson, will be an  accurate historical account of the 
crucifixion of Jesus Christ.  Accurate is the operative word here. 
The Jews have spent many moons  in Hollywood re-writing White 
history for the stupid goyim, and have  managed to make a huge 
profit from the goyim's historical ignorance  and fear of the 
anti-Semite label. So, the words "accurate depiction  of the 
crucifixion of Christ" 

[CTRL] ADL Says Extremists Use The Talmud to Promote Anti-Semitism

[David Sutherland]

Title: ADL Says Extremists Use The Talmud to Promote Anti-Semitism
-Caveat Lector-





  
  

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Press Release
Anti-Semitism: USA
  

  
ADL Says 
  Extremists Use The Talmud to Promote Anti-Semitism 
  
  New York, NY, February 20, 2003 ... The Talmud 
  - the classic text of Jewish law and lore, history and 
  philosophy - increasingly is being used by extremists to 
  promote their anti-Semitism. In a new report, the 
  Anti-Defamation League (ADL) exposes the lies of anti-Semites, 
  Holocaust deniers and others who cite Talmudic texts as 
  evidence that Judaism is "perverted" or "immoral." 
  
  


  

  
  

  
  
  
• 

The Talmud in Anti-Semitic 
  Polemics (requires Acrobat Reader, 202 
  kb)
  

  
  "It has become a common refrain among the anti-Semites 
  that the Talmud is the 'smoking gun' that confirms their 
  belief about Jews being stingy, malevolent and intent on world 
  domination," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. 
  "They create this myth about Jewish practices and tradition, 
  which helps to further justify and promote their 
  anti-Semitism." ADL's report, The Talmud in 
  Anti-Semitic Polemics, exposes how certain passages from 
  the Talmud and other traditional Jewish texts are used to 
  foment anti-Semitism through distortions and fabrications. The 
  authors of anti-Talmudic polemics seek to paint Judaism as an 
  immoral religion that preaches hatred for non-Jews and 
  promotes obscenity, criminality, sexual perversion and other 
  immoral acts. Widely available on the Internet, such 
  anti-Talmudic tracts "are clearly designed to provoke 
  hostility toward Jews," Mr. Foxman said. The foremost 
  distorters of Talmudic texts include David Duke, the former 
  Klansman and white supremacist, and Michael A. Hoffman II, a 
  conspiracy theorist and Holocaust denier. Among the 
  claims refuted by the ADL report are: 
  
The claim that Judaism views non-Jews as 
"non-human;" 
The claim that Judaism encourages child 
molestation; 
The claim that Jews should not be trusted 
because they recite the Kol Nidre prayer that authorizes 
them to lie to non-Jews; 
The claim that Judaism demands that 
non-Jews who study Jewish law be put to death; 
The claim that the Talmud employs the name 
 

[CTRL] Who Was Behind the Bolshevik Revolution?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Who Was Behind the Bolshevik 
Revolution?


 2000 WorldNetDaily.comThe anti-communist 
movement in America has long been afflicted by an historical misunderstanding 
which persists today. There is a widespread teaching about communism and its 
origins which is false. It is a teaching which has influenced millions of 
Americans.The 20th century version of this teaching originated with 
Russian anti-Semites. Relying on false documents and a conspiratorial 
hypothesis, these anti-Semites blamed Jews and Freemasons for a wide-ranging 
global conspiracy to destroy Christianity and create a world government. One of 
the key historical facts alleged by these Russian anti-Semites has to do with 
the origins of the Bolshevik Revolution.In this context, the importance 
of historical facts and interpretations should not be underestimated. If our 
historical facts are incorrect, then our political understanding will be weak 
and our actions will be misdirected. If we believe in enemies and conspiracies 
that do not exist in reality, then real conspiracies will be misapprehended or 
ignored.A body of literature and testimony, based on false assertions 
and bogus documentation, began to appear in the West after the Bolshevik 
Revolution. This literature and testimony asserted (and continues to assert) 
that certain American bankers, who happen to have Jewish names, had financed the 
Bolshevik Revolution. Once the Russian anti-Semites planted this poisonous seed, 
it spread rapidly. Henry Ford was an early convert to this claim. Hitler and the 
Nazis were also believers in it.After the collapse of Nazi Germany, 
writers and publicists like Robert Welch, Gary Allen and Anthony Sutton 
continued to advance the thesis that a sinister Western group financed and 
directed the communist revolution in Russia. This group, it was said, used 
international communism to advance their own sinister agenda in the 
West.George Knupffer, a Russian emigre, was an early advocate of this 
view. As a Russian monarchist, he worked to influence American public opinion by 
writing books. Long before the founding of the John Birch Society by Robert 
Welch, Knupffer and his compatriots advanced the theory that Russia had been a 
testing ground -- a preliminary experiment -- used by forces located outside of 
Russia.Who was behind this conspiracy?According to Knupffer, it 
was the Warburgs and Jacob Schiff of Kuhn, Loeb  Co. that financed the 
Bolshevik Revolution. These were the alleged culprits and villains behind it 
all. These were the evil geniuses of the October Revolution. Allen and Sutton 
followed Knupffer's line -- which had previously been advanced by Henry Ford's 
anti-Semitic publications of the 1920s and 1930s.It must be said, in 
response to this conspiracy theory, that the allegations against the Warburgs 
and Schiffs are false. These allegations, which originate in anti-Semitic 
propaganda, have been repeated so often that many good people have come to 
accept them without question.In truth, the culprits behind the communist 
takeover in Russia were not in New York, and they did not have Jewish names. The 
villains were in Berlin and they had German names. As it happens, the chief 
architect of the Bolshevik Revolution was none other than German Foreign 
Secretary Arthur Zimmermann. During the First World War the Political Section of 
the German Foreign Office had been devising a plan to bring revolution to 
Russia. It was Zimmermann's pet idea. From 1915 to 1917 the German secret 
service began cultivating socialists of all parties. Baron Gisbert von Romberg, 
the German minister in Switzerland, urged that the Kaiser put his money behind 
Lenin and his Bolsheviks. Count Diego von Bergen, the German official in charge 
of political subversion within Russia, believed that a large enough sum of money 
could bring Lenin to power.How much money did the Kaiser provide to 
Lenin?The German Social Democrat, Eduard Bernstein, later said that the 
sum supplied to Lenin by the Kaiser "was very large, an almost unbelievable 
amount, certainly more than 50 million gold marks."General Max von 
Hoffmann, who negotiated the German-Soviet Brest-Litovsk peace treaty, later 
confirmed: "Lenin and his comrades received vast sums of money from the Kaiser's 
government for their destructive agitation."In fact, General Hoffmann 
admitted that he blackmailed Lenin into signing the Brest-Litovsk treaty, and it 
is simple to see how this was done. Since Lenin's takeover of Russia had been 
accomplished with help from German agents and German money while Russia was at 
war with Germany, Lenin's treason was obvious. All the Germans had to do was 
publish the truth about their secret alliance with Lenin and the Bolshevik 
government would collapse.Once in power, Lenin did not want to sign the 
peace treaty with Germany. But he had no choice. At the Time Kaiser Wilhelm 
triumphantly pronounced that Lenin "was finished." The Kaiser could 

Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler, Cheney

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



... and what difference would 
that make Steve? Do you have a need to be controlled Steve?Now if you'd 
have done what i asked and gone and re-read the original post you may have been 
able to come back with an intelligent comment. You may have also gleaned that 
what was claimed about the Beatles came from the psychotic penof 
LaRouche-ism and not me. That was a 'quote' 
from the LaRoucheKamp Steve, that is why it was in quotation marks and 
with thesource of the citation noted.

Whatever attendant politicised 
conspiracy theoriesor mad-hatter Xtian styledemonisation 
blame-people want tolay on the Beatles and their music --music at 
best is an aesthetic appeal and henceits appreciation is an extremely 
subjectiveexperience. 

Some who think that psychedelic drugs 
somehow enhance the musician are deluded. It's a complete illusion and no 
musician who has worked under the influence for a considerable time has or will 
ever reach their peak ability -- their full, latent, gutsy, 
sublime,raw intellectual and physicalcapabilities. 
We call athletes on steroid drugscheats -- Musos on drugs cheat themselves 
and their audience because they do not deliver their peak -- and never can. 


Personally, I like all kinds of music 
simply because I LIKE IT, not because someone else (like pope LaRouche as 
per the post) has determined that it is good, bad or therapeutic for the 
performer or spectator. 

Dave.

- Original 
Message -From: "Steve Wingate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, April 
01, 2003 2:30 PMSubject: Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler,  
Cheney -Caveat Lector- David, are you our new 
psyops controller? Just wondering... Steve On 2 
Apr 2003 at 8:21, David Sutherland wrote:  Maybe you should 
look at the post again ... this time try reading dimwit...  
instead of giving us your out of context, halfwit 'anal ysis'. 
  Dave.  News 
alternatives to US war propaganda: http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en 
http://www.truthout.org/ http://www.aljazeerah.info/ http://www.overthrow.com/ http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/content.htm A HREF="">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL 
is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
Proselytizingpropagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not 
soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright 
frauds-is used politically by different groupswith major and minor 
effects spread throughout the spectrum of time andthought. That 
being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and 
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no 
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us 
please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
 
Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="">Archives'>http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http://archive.jab.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="">ctrlhttp://archive.jab.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A 
 
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Om
A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] The coalition's other 'enemy'

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Arnett has dropped 
quite a few bloopers ... he's obviously under great pressure ... I've 
heardhim on radio a few times and he sounded very tired and fatigued 
(understandably so) ... I think his sacking was an over reaction ... 
guess some Americans who are very pro the war would 
see his commentaryas Iraqi suck-up and enemy lackey-ism ... 


... I'm not sure what merit there 
is in comparison of one mans alleged honours and heroism to another's ... Arnett 
may simply be addicted to the rush of war... and if he is half the man you 
depict ... he'd more likely say "its just a 
job"...

I suppose some get obsessive with their 
job --Arnett once wrote:

  "Then how do you remain 
  objective, or better, intelligent about your copy? That is the test of your 
  professionalism, to be able to observe with as much professional 
  detachment as possible to report a scene with accuracy and clarity. I 
  said it might be called a sense of mission, and in the AP it must take 
  precedence over national patriotism in war, regional propaganda or municipal 
  boostering back home. If you fail in this professional detachment you 
  become an advocate, a worthy enough mission but not journalism. 
  
  
  One example of my attempted detachment: 
  
  I stood one hot noon outside the Saigon 
  market and watched a Buddhist monk in brown robes climb from a taxi and squat 
  on the pavement. He squirted gasoline over himself from a rubber bottle and 
  flicked a cigarette lighter. Here was a political immolation a few feet in 
  front of me. I felt horror and disgust as his body blackened and puffed out 
  like burned pastry. 
  I could have prevented that 
  immolation by rushing at him and kicking the gasoline away. As a 
  human being I wanted to. As a reporter I couldn't. This monk was one of many 
  who committed suicide to dramatize the iniquities of the Diem regime in 
  Saigon. If I had stopped him, the Secret Police who were watching from a 
  distance would have immediately arrested him and carried him off to God knows 
  where. If I had attempted to prevent them doing this I would have propelled 
  myself directly into Vietnamese politics. My role as a reporter would have 
  been destroyed along with my credibility. 
  What did I do? I photographed him 
  burning on the sidewalk."
As far as 'Buddha' quotes go ... ? 


Well I dunno -- some say one mans fat 
cunt is another's mans ecstasy. I lean a little toward the ideathat all 
religions are fucked.

Dave.


- Original Message - 
From: "Euphorian" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The coalition's other 
'enemy'
 -Caveat Lector- 
 4/2/2003 10:35:11 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  
This looks like a classic example of luring the enemy into a false sense 
of security. I heard Sean Hannity on the Faux News today describe 
Arnett as being a propaganda shill, in favour of the Iraqis. Of 
course, neither Sean nor Cal have the cajones to risk their lives by 
being in the centre of a war zone, where Arnett has been on and off for 
forty years. As a virtual hostage, it makes some sense to be a 
little gracious to those who could cause an untimely death at any 
time. Arnett is probably telling everyone what they want to hear 
in such circumstances and, in so doing, may be causing the wannabees a 
little envy if not jealousy (watch out Sean and Cal: deadly 
sins!). Even MSNBC has stated that the remarks might have made no 
difference except they were on Iraqi National TV. But. How 
did WE hear of these remarks? I don't get nor (obviously) watch 
Iraqi TV. So: what's the message here? Extending a further 
challenge to the Iraqis to be a little foolishly emboldened? Did 
Arnett do what he did (with over 40 years of wartime journalistic 
experience) on purpose (and whose)? Or, did he have to free 
himself from some constraints? This whole thing was too pat. 
See:  The firing of Peter Arnett: right-wing straitjacket 
tightens on the US media http://wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/arne-a01.shtml  Arnett gave aid and comfort to our enemy when he 
delivered these gems on Iraqi TV: "Clearly the American war planners 
misjudged the determination of the Iraqi forces," ...  
 What did they study in school that Arnett skipped? This is 
interesting from the standpoint that Cal puts Arnett into the same group 
as some of the most respected and distinguished newsmen of their 
respective times. One other thing that Cal doesn't address is what 
schools (if any) these three went to (Pulitzer didn't feel good 
reporters needed to be schooled; just good reporters. He has an 
endowment named after him at Columbia that was administered a little 
differently than he might have wanted [see Weaver, *News and the Culture 
of Lying*]). He doesn't tell about Shirer being in Germany prior 
to the outbreak of WW2 reporting on things that were going on. He 
a

Re: [CTRL] So Called Anti American Emails

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Now, now Billy! Be nice! 


And remember thecode, 
"never reveal your sources" -- you old time toilet trawler 
you!

Dave.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:27 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] So Called Anti 
  American Emails
  -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 4/1/2003 
  7:24:08 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Was this written on the wall above the third urinal from the 
left?Yeah, right below your phone number and an odd (and 
  in some jurisdictions, illegal) request...Bill. A HREF="">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A 
  DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  
  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. 
  Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy 
  theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used 
  politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout 
  the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to 
  the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you 
  read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A 
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  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL 
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A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler, Cheney

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Nice to see a brain that 
functions at the speed of dark. I guess they don't call you Windgate for 
nothing.

I'm not sure where your 
homosexual fantasies are heading, but this probably isn't the appropriate forum 
to express them on. If you need --either help, counselling or gay 
contacts, it might be best to e-mail me off-line -- can't promise anything, but 
I'llscour my best toget you help --just hold off beaming-up to 
that Iraqi UFO dood!
Dave.- 
Original Message -From: "Steve Wingate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, 
April 02, 2003 1:26 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler,  
Cheney -Caveat Lector- On 2 Apr 2003 at 8:21, 
David Sutherland wrote:  'anal ysis'. I 
think that says everything about your intentions here. Your anal intentis 
alarming. Is your dick also made from depleated uranium? Shall you stuff 
it up Sadam'sa***? You'd love that, wouldn't you? 
Steve  News alternatives to US 
war propaganda: http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en 
http://www.truthout.org/ http://www.aljazeerah.info/ http://www.overthrow.com/ http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/content.htm A HREF="">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL 
is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
Proselytizingpropagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not 
soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy 
theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright 
frauds-is used politically by different groupswith major and minor 
effects spread throughout the spectrum of time andthought. That 
being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and 
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no 
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us 
please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
 
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Military rivalry 'causes friendly fire deaths'

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Military rivalry 'causes friendly fire 
deaths' 19:00 02 April 03  
Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition  In modern 
warfare, one of the biggest dangers to troops is not knowing who is friend and 
who is foe. In the first days of the US and British invasion of Iraq, an 
American Patriot missile shot down a British Tornado fighter-bomber, while near 
Basra one British Challenger tank destroyed another. Then in a disturbing echo 
of events in the 1991 Gulf War, an American A-10 plane destroyed a British 
armoured vehicle.

At first sight these look like inevitable 
accidents, triggered by technological failures of 21st-century military 
technology. But the truth may lie deeper. Blame for such accidents usually lies 
with the culture of rivalry that pervades the armed services, say safety 
experts. And the way such "friendly fire" incidents are investigated - with the 
emphasis on finding individual culprits rather than any organisational failings 
- means military planners may never get to the root cause.

There is no dispute that high-tech equipment 
can foster friendly fire accidents. The American and British forces in Iraq use 
thermal or radar images to engage the enemy at maximum range in limited 
visibility, says Scott Snook, former head of the Center for Leadership  
Organizations at the West Point military academy in New York. 

When troops cannot see and check the target 
with their own eyes, they are more likely to make a mistake. Similarly, 
electronic identification systems can fail in action: the US Army says a 
software error led the Patriot system to identify the Tornado as an incoming 
missile.

NATO is planning an all-embracing digital 
"combat ID" system for its members' forces, but this will not be fitted until at 
least 2006, according to Britain's Ministry of Defence (MoD). Until then, the 
MoD expects "fratricide" to account for 10 to 15 per cent of British deaths in 
combat.
'Unavoidable 
feature of warfare' 
Even when the system 
is fully operational, few expect it to eliminate casualties completely. "History 
shows that fratricide is an unavoidable feature of warfare," admits the National 
Audit Office, Britain's public spending watchdog, in a 2002 report on the MoD's 
attempts to improve combat identification.

Yet the number of accidents could still be 
reduced - and not just by finding technological solutions. "The deeper issues of 
inter-service rivalry and the difference in cultures between army and air force, 
and even within those, are very rarely addressed," says Snook, now at Harvard 
Business School. "They are often the biggest contributor to friendly 
fire."

As an example, he cites the shooting down of 
two US Army Black Hawk helicopters by two US Air Force F-15s in the No Fly Zone 
over northern Iraq in 1994. The incident, which killed 26 servicemen, occurred 
in part because the jet pilots had no record that the helicopters would be in 
the area. 

When asked why the Black Hawks had not been 
entered on the mission sheet detailing the aircraft in the air that day, the 
USAF serviceperson responsible said: "We don't consider helicopters to be 
aircraft."

The omission is a startling indication of how 
communications can break down, says Snook. "Here's an important word like 
'aircraft' and that word meant something completely different in these different 
cultures."

Systems theory 

"We may not have learned all the lessons of 
friendly fire events," agrees Nancy Leveson, an aerospace safety expert at the 
Massachusetts Institute of Technology. She believes current investigative 
techniques tend to be aimed at assigning blame to a person or group. Instead, an 
inquiry should look at the broader picture.

Leveson has devised a system that can help do 
this, a full description of which has just been accepted for publication in 
Safety Science. Called STAMP, for "systems theory accident modelling and 
processes", the technique is based on systems theory, the idea of developing 
mathematical descriptions of complex systems. It can be applied to a range of 
accidents, from friendly fire incidents to nuclear spills and train 
crashes.

Friendly fire investigations usually search 
for one key event that triggered a fateful sequence. But which event in the 
chain gets blamed can be quite arbitrary. The STAMP technique paints a picture 
of the whole system and the interdependencies within it, says Leveson. That 
allows investigators to spot generic safety failures. 

Some are sceptical. "Where will the process of 
data collection and interpretation stop?" asks Jim Armstrong, a systems expert 
at the University of Newcastle. But Peter Ladkin, a specialist in 
safety-critical systems at the University of Bielefeld in Germany, says: 
"Friendly fire accidents seem suited to a STAMP analysis as most are 
predominantly due to organisational and human factors rather than 
technology."

String of errors 


The official US Department of Defense inquiry 
into the 

Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler, Cheney

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Maybe you should look at the post again ... this time try reading dimwit ...
instead of giving us your out of context, halfwit 'anal ysis'.

Dave.

- Original Message -
From: Steve Wingate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler,  Cheney


 -Caveat Lector-

 On 1 Apr 2003 at 13:56, David Sutherland wrote:

The Beatles had no genuine musical talent, but were a product shaped
according to
British Psychological Warfare Division (Travis, and promoted in
Britain by agencies
which are controlled by British intelligence.

 No genuine musical talent?!! I think that statement says it all about the
value of your
 'analysis'.

 Steve
 
 News alternatives to US war propaganda:

 http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en
 http://www.truthout.org/
 http://www.aljazeerah.info/
 http://www.overthrow.com/
 http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/content.htm

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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 Om


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] The coalition's other 'enemy'

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

The coalition's other 'enemy'
Cal Thomas

April 1, 2003

Before firing Peter Arnett - the Tokyo Rose of our time - NBC issued a
ludicrous statement defending Arnett's interview on Iraqi TV as a
professional courtesy. When the condemnations started rolling in, NBC saw
the handwriting on the ratings wall and quickly cut him loose. NBC News
President Neal Shapiro said, It was wrong for Mr. Arnett to grant an
interview to state-controlled Iraqi TV - especially at a time of war - and
it was wrong for him to discuss his personal observations and opinions in
that interview. Arnett later apologized on the Today show, but the damage
to what remains of his career was already done (Arnett was reprimanded by
CNN in 1998 for a report that accused U.S. forces of using sarin gas on a
Laotian village in 1970 to kill U.S. defectors and left that network).

Would Edward R. Murrow, William Shirer or Walter Cronkite have allowed
themselves to be interviewed on German radio as a professional courtesy
during World War II? No, because they correctly viewed the Nazis as the
enemy of humanity and American forces as the liberators of Europe. What did
they study in school that Arnett skipped?

Arnett gave aid and comfort to our enemy when he delivered these gems on
Iraqi TV: Clearly the American war planners misjudged the determination of
the Iraqi forces, and Clearly (Baghdad) is a city that is disciplined ..
My Iraqi friends tell me there is a growing sense of nationalism and
resistance to what the United States and Britain are doing, and Our
reports about civilian casualties here, about the resistance of the Iraqi
forces are going back to the United States and help those who oppose the
war. It took 63 days to get the Taliban out of Kandahar, Afghanistan, and
Peter Arnett is declaring a more formidable war that is less than two weeks
old a failure?

Arnett's remarks may encourage Saddam Hussein to fight on. This could lead
to the deaths of more American and British soldiers. Arnett is a naturalized
American. He does not deserve his citizenship, and his comments go far
beyond any journalistic ethic with which I am familiar.

Some journalists may think they can reprise their anti-war role from the
Vietnam period, but this time the public is not going to let them get away
with it. Most journalists probably can't change the oil in their own cars
(limos if they're anchors), much less service a tank, but suddenly they have
become experts on the pace of troop movements, supply lines and the service
requirements of tanks, trucks and armored personnel carriers. Shallow news
anchors and retired generals with no direct information about war plans or
their execution speculate and opinionate endlessly. The only thing most
reporters know about war is what they have seen in the movies. Had they been
covering World War II, they would have called for the court-martial of
Eisenhower and Patton for causing too many civilian casualties.

As bad as some of the American media are, things are worse in Britain. If
Saddam Hussein listens to the BBC World Service, he might think he is
winning. A column in last Sunday's (March 30) Telegraph by Caroline Lees,
who says she is stranded in Eritrea, reveals the frustration of British
citizens with their media. Lees says the BBC is her only source for war
news, but I am tired of the relentless bombardment of worst-case scenarios,
endless analysis of problems before they occur, and blow-by-blow accounts of
perceived errors by the coalition forces. I realize war is never easy, and
it is not the BBC's job to pretend things are going well when they are not,
but all I ask, as a listener, is a little balance.

With competition for viewers (and readers) hotter than ever, the big media
cannot afford to ignore complaints about biased and negative reporting. The
proliferation of cable TV means news consumers have more choices than they
did during the Vietnam War. The New York Times reported last week that
combined ratings for Fox Broadcast and the Fox News Channel were second only
to the larger NBC network.

Is it too much to ask journalists simply to report what is happening in the
war and to stop endless speculation and editorializing without direct and
credible knowledge of the facts? Apparently it was for Peter Arnett, and
NBC, sensitive to the ratings war, made him a casualty.

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need 

Re: [CTRL] NBC TV fires Arnett for telling truth about Iraq

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

I heard there are quite a number of vacancies at Saddam's Daily Mirror.

Dave.



- Original Message -
From: Steve Wingate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: [CTRL] NBC TV fires Arnett for telling truth about Iraq


 -Caveat Lector-

 --- Forwarded message follows ---
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 From:   Nicholas Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date sent:  Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:18:30 -0800
 Subject:!b_a_Act: NBC TV fires Arnett for telling truth
about Iraq war
 Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

 Published on Monday, March 31, 2003 by CNN

 NBC: Arnett Out After Iraqi TV Interview

 BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- NBC announced Monday that both NBC and National
Geographic severed
 their relationships with veteran war correspondent Peter Arnett.

 In an interview that aired on Iraqi TV Sunday, Arnett said that the U.S.
war plan has
 failed because of Iraqi resistance. Now they are trying to write another
war plan.
 Clearly, the American war planners misjudged the determination of the
Iraqi forces.

 Photo caption: American television network NBC said on March 31, 2003 it
had severed its
 relations with veteran reporter Peter Arnett after he told Iraqi
television that the U.S.
 war plan against Saddam Hussein had failed. 'Peter Arnett will no longer
be reporting for
 NBC News and MSNBC,' NBC said in a joint statement with National
Geographic, for whom the
 Pulitzer prize-winning reporter was also working. Arnett is seen in this
March 26 video
 still. (NBC via Reuters)

 On Sunday, NBC News had issued a statement supporting Arnett, saying that
Arnett gave the
 interview to Iraqi TV as a professional courtesy and that his remarks
were analytical
 in nature and were not intended to be anything more.

 But a day later, NBC issued a different statement. It was wrong for him
to grant an
 interview to state-run Iraqi TV, especially in a time of war.

 Arnett is not an NBC News reporter but an employee of the MSNBC show,
National
 Geographic Explorer, according to The Associated Press. The network began
airing
 Arnett's reports after NBC reporters evacuated Baghdad.

 Monday morning, Arnett appeared on NBC's Today Show and apologized for his
comments.

 I want to apologize to the American people for clearly making a
misjudgment over the
 weekend by giving an interview to Iraqi Television, said Arnett, who
added that what he
 said in the interview was what we all know about the war.

 There have been delays in implementing policy and there's been surprises.
But clearly by
 giving that interview to Iraqi Television, I created a firestorm in the
United States and
 for that I am truly sorry, Matt, he said.

 During the Sunday interview, Arnett also said that Iraq had given him and
other reporters
 a degree of freedom which we appreciate. Iraq has expelled several
journalists,
 including CNN's Baghdad team, and apparently has imprisoned two
journalists from the New
 York newspaper Newsday.

 Arnett is a member of the Board of Directors of the Committee to Protect
Journalists,
 which is trying to locate the missing journalists.

 During the Iraqi TV interview, Arnett said, I'd like to say from the
beginning that the
 12 years I've been coming here, I've met unfailing courtesy and
cooperation, courtesy
 from your people and cooperation from the Ministry of Information.

 Arnett told the Iraqi TV interviewer, who was dressed in an Iraqi Army
uniform, that
 President Bush is facing a growing challenge about the conduct of the
war within the
 United States.

 President Bush says he is concerned about the Iraqi people, but if Iraqi
people are
 dying in numbers, then American policy will be challenged very strongly,
he said. In the
 interview, Arnett said reports from Baghdad about civilians being killed
are being shown
 in the United States, and it helps those who oppose the war when you
challenge the
 policy to develop their arguments.

 He pointed out U.S. claims that civilians killed in an explosion at a
downtown Baghdad
 market were the victims of Iraqi missiles, and that Iraq had said the
missiles were
 definitely incoming coalition fire.

 Arnett also said clearly this is a city that is disciplined, the
population is
 responsive to the government's requirements of discipline, and Iraqi
friends tell me
 there is a growing sense of nationalism and resistance to what the United
States and
 Britain is doing.

 The longtime war correspondent, who reported on the Persian Gulf War for
CNN in 1991,
 said U.S. war planners miscalculated the will of Iraqis and he does not
understand how
 that happened.

 He said his reports would tell the Americans about the determination of
the Iraqi
 forces, the determination of the government and the willingness to fight
for their
 country.

 Copyright 2003 CNN

 --- End of 

Re: [CTRL] Insects thrive on Frankenstein 'pest-killing' crops

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





Itkind of 
means that what you are reading here, or maybe about to buy into, is potentially 
a massive mound of B. S. --so, B.uyer be S.keptical --when reading 
beware!




  
  
ca·ve·at  (P)Pronunciation Key(kv-t, kv-, käv-ät)n. 
  


  A warning or caution: “A final 
  caveat: Most experts feel that clients get unsatisfactory results when 
  they don't specify clearly what they want” (Savvy). 
  A qualification or 
  explanation. 
Law. A formal notice filed by an 
interested party with a court or officer, requesting the postponement of 
a proceeding until the filer is heard. v. ca·ve·at·ed, or ca·ve·at·ted ca·ve·at·ing, or 
  ca·ve·at·ting ca·ve·ats or ca·ve·ats v. intr. Law 
  
To enter a 
  caveat.v. tr. Informal 
  
  
To qualify with a warning or 
clarification: The spokesperson caveated the statement with a reminder 
that certain facts were still unknown. 
  
  [From Latin, let him beware, third person sing. present subjunctive of 
  cavre, to beware.]



  
  
Source: 
  The American 
  Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright 
  © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin 
  Company. All rights reserved.[Buy 
  it]




  
  
lec·tor  (P)Pronunciation Key(lktr)n. 
  
A person who reads aloud certain of the 
scriptural passages used in a church service. 
A public lecturer or reader in certain 
universities. 
  
  [Middle English, from Late Latin lctor, from Latin, reader, from lctus, past participle of legere, to read. See 
  lecture.]



  
  
Source: 
  The American 
  Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright 
  © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin 
  Company. All rights reserved.[Buy 
  it]
lector
\Lec"tor\ (l[e^]k"t[o^]r), n. [L. See Lection.] (Eccl.) 
A reader of lections; formerly, a person designated to read lessons to the 
illiterate.

  
  
Source: 
  Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 
  MICRA, Inc.
lector
n : a public lecturer at certain universities 
[syn: lecturer, 
reader]

Dave.





- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Davidson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Insects thrive on Frankenstein 
'pest-killing' crops
 -Caveat Lector- 
 What does "caveat lector" mean?  Thanks 
--From: Steve Wingate [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Organization: Anomalous Images  Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research 
List [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Date: Mon, 
31 Mar 2003 17:45:34 -0800  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Subject: 
[CTRL] Insects thrive on Frankenstein 'pest-killing' crops  
 -Caveat Lector-   --- Forwarded message follows 
---  - Original Message -  From: here and 
now  To: Conspiranoia  Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:14 
PM  Subject: [Conspiranoia!] Insects thrive on Frankenstein 
'pest-killing' crops"Do you think you 
can upset the order of the Universe, and not pay the  price?" - 
Honeythorn Gump, the film - Legend.   "And except those 
days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved .  . ." - 
Christ, Matthew 24:22.   Insects thrive on GM 
'pest-killing' crops  By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor 
 30 March 2003   Genetically modified crops 
specially engineered to kill pests in fact  nourish them, startling 
new research has revealed.   The research - which has 
taken even the most ardent opponents of GM crops by  surprise - 
radically undermines one of the key benefits claimed for them.  And 
it suggests that they may be an even greater threat to organic farming 
 than has been envisaged.   It strikes at the heart 
of one of the main lines of current genetic  engineering in 
agriculture: breeding crops that come equipped with their own  
pesticide.   Biotech companies have added genes from a 
naturally occurring poison,  Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), which is 
widely used as a pesticide by organic  farmers. The engineered crops 
have spread fast. The amount of land planted  with them worldwide 
grew more than 25-fold - from four million acres in 1996  to well 
over 100 million acres (44.2m hectares) in 2000 - and the global  
market is expected to be worth $25bn (£16bn) by 2010.   
Drawbacks have already emerged, with pests becoming resistant to the 
toxin.  Environmentalists say that resistance develops all the 
faster because the  insects are constantly exposed to it in the 
plants, rather than being  subject to occasional spraying. 
  But the new research - by scientists at Imperial College 
London and the  Universidad Simon Rodrigues in Caracas, Venezuela - 
adds an alarming new  twist, suggesting that pests can actually 

Re: [CTRL] War, Hitler, Cheney

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



"How can Satan cast out 
Satan?" Mark 3:23

After that last (disguised Judeo-phobic 
rant)article I read that you postedscrawled bysome 
LaRouchesycophant identifying Nietzsche with Fascism,I was left with 
the thought that these LaRouche dills have really not got a clue about what 
theyrant on and on about --particularly when they use fear-mongering 
terms such as"Nazism" or "Fascism". Hence, given the foibles of human 
nature and by their very writ, these LaRouchiteshave themselves become 
exponents of that which they profess to repel. They have a cultish history which 
exemplifies the very things which they claim to be themoral and 
ideological evils and ills of those whom they demonise.

Interesting 'pearls' from and about the 
LaRouche boys: 

  "Judaism is the religion of a caste of 
  subjects of Christianity, entirely molded by ingenious rabbis to fit into the 
  ideological and secular life of Christianity. In short, a self sustaining 
  Judaism never existed and never could exist. As for Jewish culture otherwise, 
  it is merely the residue left to the Jewish home after everything saleable has 
  been marketed to the Goyim." 
  "The Case of Ludwig Feuerbach", 
Lyndon H. LaRouche,Jr., (under pen name L. Marcus), The Campaigner, December 
1973 

  "America must be cleansed 
  for its righteous war by the immediate elimination 
  of the Nazi Jewish Lobby and other British agents from the councils of 
  government, industry, and labor." 
  
"A War-winning Strategy", Editorial, New 
Solidarity,March 1978

Jazz 
"Jazz was foisted on 
  black Americans by the same oligarchy which had run the U.S. 
  slave trade, with the help of the classically trained but immoral George 
  Gershwin and the Paris-New York circuit of drug-taking avant-garde artists." 
  
  "The Racist Roots of Jazz", Back 
Cover, The Campaigner,September-October 
1980
The Beatles 

"The Beatles had no genuine 
  musical talent, but were a product shaped according to British 
  Psychological Warfare Division (Travis, and promoted in Britain by agencies 
  which are controlled by British intelligence." 
  
"Why Your Child Became A Drug Addict" 
Lyndon H. LaRouche,Jr., Campaigner Special Report, Copyright 
1978
Sexism and homophobia became 
central themes of Larouche's theories. A September 1973 editorial in the NCLC 
ideological journal "Campaigner" charged that "Concretely, all across the 
U.S.A., there are workers who are prepared to fight. They are held back, most 
immediately, by pressure from their wives. . . ." 

The problem with making the revolution, 
LaRouche apparently had concluded, was that women are castrating 
bitches. One former member left in disgust when she was told women's 
feelings of degradation in modern society could be traced to the physical 
placement of female sexual organs near the anus which caused women to 
confuse sex with excretion. In an August 16, 1973 internal 
memo, "The Politics of Male Impotence," LaRouche told his followers: 


  "The principle source of impotence, both 
  male and female, is the mother. . . .to the extent that my physical powers do 
  not prevent me, I am now confident and capable of ending your political--and 
  sexual-- impotence; the two are interconnected aspects of the same problem. . 
  . . I am going to make you organizers--by taking your bedrooms away from you 
  until you make the step to being effective organizers. What I shall do is to 
  expose to you the cruel fact of your sexual impotence, male and female. . . .I 
  shall destroy your sense of safety in the place to which you ordinarily 
  imagine you can flee. I shall not pull you back from fleeing, but rather 
  destroy the place to which you would attempt to flee." 

LaRouche also developed a fevered, 
comprehensive paranoid fantasy about the importance of his role in history--and 
a militant, new-found resolve to act upon it, wiping out all opposition to his 
leadership of the U.S. revolutionary movement. The result was Operation 
Mop-Up. Lyndon LaRouche took his sexual identity crisis into the 
streets. Operation Mop-up raged from May to September of 1973. 
LaRouche's followers in NCLC were ordered to brutally assault rivals 
from the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and the Socialist Workers Party (SWP). NCLC 
thugs used bats, chains, and martial arts weapons in a campaign to establish 
"hegemony" over the American revolutionary movement. There were many injuries 
and some persons required hospitalization. 
Well nothing like the friendly charm of a 
baseball bat atop the noggin, undoubtedly the peaceful style promoted by 
LaRouchian Quaker progeny.But it was probably all very 'unintentional,' 
like the adage about Quaker Pacifism-- when the Quaker, upon discovering a 
burglar in his home said, "Friend, I would not harm thee for the world, but thou 
standest where I am about to shoot."

It was inevitable, given Quaker obsession with 
sin and holiness, transferred 

[CTRL] Blowing Up the Moons Conspiracy Theory

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Blowing Up the 
Moons Conspiracy TheorySaturday, March 15, 2003 
By Patricia Ward Biederman Los 
Angeles Times


NORTHRIDGE, Calif.  Phil Plait, 38-year-old 
astronomer and skeptic, was on the California State University, Northridge, 
campus Friday, punching holes in the tenacious myth that American astronauts 
never landed on the moon. 
Given the crowd, Plait didnt have much 
persuading to do. His talk was sponsored by the universitys Department of 
Physics and Astronomy, and the room was full of people who know one end of a 
telescope from the other. But many Americans cling to the view that the landings 
were staged  6 percent of those surveyed in a 1999 Gallup poll had their 
doubts, uncertainty fed by a steady stream of television shows, books and 
videotapes that claim that NASA was part of a vast government conspiracy. 

But when Plait asked his 75 listeners if any 
believed the moon landings were a hoax, only one young man raised his hand. 

Wearing sneakers and a blue NASA cap, the 
astronomer ticked off the arguments presented in a 2001 Fox TV show Conspiracy 
Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? seen by more than 6 million viewers. He 
systematically refuted each claim. 
On the staff at Sonoma State University in 
northern California, Plait is part of a program that develops educational 
activities based on NASA science and technology. He debunks on his own time, as 
part of an informal community of scientists who thinks its important to counter 
the pseudoscientific notions that seem to flourish in the United States. 
Sometimes, he confessed, taking on the 
conspiracy theorists seems like a lot of effort that could be better spent, say, 
doing astronomy. Plait paraphrases the famous observation: Never wrestle with a 
pig. Youll just get dirty, and the pig enjoys it. But, he said, he believes 
its important to give people the tools they need to think critically about 
these arguments and realize they are wrong. 
Look at the American flag supposedly being 
planted on the moon, the moon hoaxers say. If the astronauts were really on the 
moon, which has no atmosphere, why is the flag waving? 
Plait explains that the astronauts caused the 
flag to move as they drilled the flagpole into the surface of the moon; inertia 
creates the apparent waving motion. 
In the audience, CSUN Astronomy Professor 
Stephen Walton said: I think its important for scientists to take a more 
active role in explaining to the public why this stuff is bad science. ... There 
may be two sides to every issue, but that doesnt mean theyre equal. 
CSUN Sociology Professor Harvey Rich agreed. 
Science education in this country is woeful, he said, and students often lack 
the training to think critically. Popular culture frequently gives a boost to 
pseudoscience, he said: Movies like Signs garner millions of viewers, and 
people think this stuff is real because they cant make the distinction between 
documentary and docudrama. 
Twenty-year-old CSUN student Joseph Farar was 
the one person who confessed to believing that the moon landing was a hoax. 
Afterward, he explained that he had a friend who knew somebody who claimed to 
work for the movie studio that was hired by NASA to fake the landing. The 
conspiracy theorists point to the lack of stars in the photos as evidence that 
the event was staged. The studio employee in Farars friends story said the 
movie-makers forgot to put in the stars. 
Farar said Plait hadnt changed his mind, but he 
said he was going to look deeper into the evidence. And he said he thought there 
were others in the audience who believed it was a hoax but didnt want to admit 
it. 
Plait said he meets bright students who have 
seen the Fox show or the like and are uncertain. 
You dont have to be an idiot to believe this, 
he said. It may not even help. 
Plait knows he cant persuade hard-core 
believers in the conspiracy: Its like trying to dig a hole in water. Its 
never going to happen. 
Instead of getting angry about the persistence 
of the myth, he said he tries to approach debunking it light-heartedly. 
And he doesnt reflexively blame overburdened 
teachers for the problem. 
Were not teaching science well enough in the 
schools, thats certainly true, he said. But I think its a societal problem, 
not a school problem. Critical thinking has to start at 
home.
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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please 

[CTRL] Fw: War Sirens Herald Iran's Hour of Revenge

[David Sutherland]

Title: Message
-Caveat Lector-



War Sirens Herald Iran's 
Hour of RevengeBy Khairallah Khairallah(London) Financial 
TimesMarch 24, 2003Financial 
TimesMarch 24It may be part of George W. Bush's axis of evil; some 
predict it will be next on the list for US pre-emptive action; but Iran is the 
only one of Iraq's neighbours that wholeheartedly supports regime change in 
Baghdad, even if via a US-led invasion. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein 
and his government is one of the few objectives on which the various factions of 
the Tehran regime agree. Since becoming convinced that the Bush administration 
is indeed determined to effect forcible change in Iraq, Tehran has been egging 
on Washington, albeit in private. Whenever the US has needed Tehran's help, the 
Iranians have been more than happy to oblige. Take last December's 
London conference of Iraqi opposition groups. That gathering would not have been 
possible had Iran not encouraged its Shia cats-paw, the Supreme Council for the 
Islamic Revolution in Iraq (Sciri), to attend. Iran strong-armed Abdulaziz 
al-Hakim, the Sciri representative, to adopt positions similar to those espoused 
by Zalmay Khalilzad, the US government representative. In exchange for its 
efforts, Iran was rewarded with a political statement from the conference that - 
for the first time in modern Iraqi history - spoke of a "Shia majority" in Iraq. 
This meant the US was no longer able to ignore the sectarian reality of Iraq. 
Iran, keen for change in Iraq, realised early on that this could be achieved 
only with US military involvement. Iranian interference angered many 
liberal Shia who warned Washington that, by supporting Sciri, they would be 
committing the same mistake they made when they encouraged Pakistan and Saudi 
Arabia to back the Taliban not that many years ago. They warned the Americans 
that Sciri would cause even more damage to Iraq's relatively open, multicultural 
and multi-ethnic society than the Taliban managed to inflict on Afghanistan. 
America, they predicted, would regret having backed Sciri, just as it now 
regrets helping the Taliban. Liberal Iraqi Sunnis, meanwhile, protested 
that the Iranians had succeeded in hijacking the Iraqi opposition by entering 
into a secret alliance with the Kurds and the Americans. One of the main reasons 
Tehran wants the Hussein regime out of the way is because it has realised it is 
the biggest obstacle standing in the way of Iran's attempts to increase its 
influence in the region; especially in Iraq proper, which cannot conceivably 
retain its old character after the US is done with it. Any new regime in 
Iraq - whatever its character - will have to take the country's Shia majority 
into consideration. Should the US fail to reshape Iraq into a prototype for 
neighbouring countries, Iran (which would in this case become one of the biggest 
operators in Iraq) would then succeed in sowing more confusion and forcing 
Washington to involve itself even more in Iraq. As a result, the Americans would 
increasingly need Iran. Even the hardline conservative faction in Iran 
believes there are benefits in the US war on Iraq. This faction calculates that 
by having the US army on Iran's border, it would be able to justify its 
repressive domestic policies. What better reason for maintaining a hardline 
stance than having the "Great Satan" on your doorstep? Overthrowing the 
Ba'athist regime in Iraq has been an Iranian objective since the days of the 
Shah. Yet Iran's attempts to change the regime have failed despite its support 
for various Iraqi opposition movements, including the Kurds, for more than 30 
years, the 1980-1988 war between the two countries and more than 12 years of 
sanctions. Tehran therefore came to the conclusion that the only way it 
could get rid of its old enemy would be through a third party - in this case, 
the US. Contrary to popular belief, the Iranians have learnt how to co-exist 
with the Americans, as the experience of Afghanistan has demonstrated. 
Whether Iraq manages to remain whole, or civil war breaks out, Iran has 
been preparing itself for some time to play a role in both the US-led war and in 
post-Hussein Iraq. In fact, the only unanswered question is whether 
Iranian military intervention will be direct or indirect. Will the Badr brigade, 
Sciri's military arm, which includes large numbers of Iranian Revolutionary 
Guards, cross over into Iraq in military or civilian garb? In either 
case, it seems that the hour of revenge is at hand for the Iranians. Tehran 
believes it is time to redraw the political map of the Middle East, giving the 
Shias a bigger role everywhere, from Afghanistan to the Gulf to south Lebanon. 
The writer is a London-based Lebanese political analyst (C) 2003 
The Financial Times Limited Financial Times (London) Posted for educational 
use only 
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[CTRL] Iraqis convinced U.S. wants to blunt resurrection of Babylon

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  
Treasured past once again at risk Many Iraqis convinced U.S. 
  wants to blunt resurrection of Babylon Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff 
  Writer 

Wednesday, March 19, 
  2003  
  

  

  
 
  
  
  
  Babylon, Iraq -- If many Western anti-war protesters 
  believe America's real motive for invading Iraq is its oil, many Iraqis 
  point to another treasure they are convinced lies behind U.S. war aims: 
  Babylon. 
  This ancient city was the cradle of world civilization thousands of 
  years ago and hit its golden era during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II in 
  the sixth century B.C. Now, it is a repository of the Iraqi regime's 
  ambition and fears. 
  "We are sure that the Americans, like they were in the Gulf War, are 
  intent on occupying Iraq for religious purposes," said Muayad Damerji, who 
  was in charge of Babylon as director of Iraq's Antiquities Department from 
  1977 to 1998 and is now an adviser to the minister of culture. 
  Many Iraqis, from high officialdom down to average folk, seem obsessed 
  with the idea that the Americans want to invade Iraq to stop the rise of 
  Babylon as an Islamic counterpart to Jewish Jerusalem. And archaeologists, 
  from Baghdad to the United States, are worried that a U.S. invasion could 
  put many of Iraq's ancient treasures at risk. 
  In his speeches, President Saddam Hussein constantly refers to Iraq's 
  ancient glory, as if to drum into average citizens the fact that their 
  country deserves an exalted spot on the world stage, and he has long 
  envisioned a grand reconstruction of the ancient city of Babylon. 
  By the 1970s, little remained of the storied site. Centuries of sand 
  and wind had eroded the walls and buildings of mud brick. No trace remains 
  of the Hanging Gardens -- one of the ancient Seven Wonders of the World -- 
  nor of the Tower of Babel. 
  But since he took power in 1981, Hussein has rebuilt large sections of 
  the ruins, leaving his fingerprints everywhere. Every rebuilt wall in the 
  central temple has a brick at the center with a message stating, "This was 
  built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar, to glorify Iraq." 
  Reconstruction work was halted due to lack of funds after the Gulf War, 
  but hovering over the Babylon site is a monstrous presidential palace, 
  built on a man-made 100-foot- high hill during the past decade, as if to 
  show who is the new emperor. 
  As the likelihood of U.S. invasion has grown stronger, American 
  archaeologists have raised loud warnings that Iraq's historical treasures 
  -- as politicized as they may be -- could be in danger from bombs, 
  fighting and subsequent rioting. 
  
  UR DAMAGED IN FIRST GULF WAR
  By all accounts, protecting this country's archaeological treasures 
  will not prove easy. During the Gulf War, heavy damage was done at Ur, in 
  southern Iraq, which was occupied by U.S. troops for several weeks. 
  American bombing raids left 400 holes in one side of the pyramid, or 
  ziggurat, which dates from 2142 B.C. And at the nearby unexcavated site of 
  Tell al-Lahm, U.S. soldiers dug trenches in what they thought were hills 
  but were actually ancient mounds containing ruins. 
  During the Gulf War, U.S. officials accused the Iraqis of deliberately 
  moving military equipment close to archaeological sites in an attempt to 
  make the Americans shy away from targeting the war materiel. In fact, the 
  Iraqis seem somewhat reckless in choosing sites of military bases. At Ur, 
  for example, 
  a major military base is only a mile way, and at Nineveh in northern 
  Iraq, the seventh century B.C. palace is adjacent to a radar tower guarded 
  by the Iraqi military. 
  But far more severe than bomb damage was the postwar looting by anti- 
  Hussein mobs. Nine regional museums were ransacked, Damerji says, and 
  4,000 artifacts were stolen -- including antiquities from the Iraqi 
  National Museum in Baghdad, which had come under heavy bombing as U.S. 
  warplanes targeted a telecommunications facility across the street. 
  
  SANCTIONS TAKE A TOLL
  John Russell, an archaeologist at the Massachusetts College of Art, and 
  other U.S. experts praise and defend their Iraqi counterparts, saying the 
  Iraqi researchers' inability to prevent deterioration in the country's 
  cultural heritage is a result of the economic crisis brought on by U.N. 
  sanctions. 
  "The absolutely, positively stupidest thing I can think of that the 
  United States could do for archaeology in a . . . postwar scenario would 
  be to try to take over the operation of the antiquities department or to 
  change Iraq's 

[CTRL] Who's Watching the Watch Lists?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Who's Watching the Watch 
Lists?
By Joanna Glasner
Mar. 25, 2003

SCOTTSDALE, Arizona -- The head of the venture 
capital firm formed by the CIA to identify technologies for improving national 
security said he opposes government agencies' growing reliance on watch 
lists.

Speaking Monday at the PC Forum technology 
conference in Scottsdale, Arizona, Gilman Louie, CEO of the CIA-backed In-Q-Tel, said he 
believes agencies should not rely merely on automated filtering tools to 
identify potential terrorists based on characteristics like travel patterns or 
citizenship status. One reason is the difficulty in removing your name from a 
list once the information has been shared with multiple parties.

"I think watch lists are a bad thing," Louie 
said, "Because they don't define how you get on and how you get off (the 
list)."

Louie's comments were in response to a 
question regarding the effectiveness of the Transportation Security 
Administration's latest screening initiative, a system known as the Computer 
Assisted Passenger Pre-Screening Program II, or CAPPS II. Under the program, 
which is under development, the TSA will screen names, addresses, birth dates 
and other data regarding passengers as a way to root out potential 
terrorists.

For individuals "deemed to pose a possible 
risk to transportation security," according to a January Federal Register 
notice, 
screenings will include additional records, including financial transaction 
histories and information from law enforcement and intelligence 
agencies.

Cory Doctorow, a sci-fi writer and staffer at 
the Electronic Frontier Foundation, questioned whether individuals flagged as 
suspicious in the TSA's database would have the "opportunity to rebut the 
conclusion of an algorithm."

Louie, a former 
video-game developer who left an executive post at Hasbro Interactive to join 
In-Q-Tel, said he believes agencies need to perform more detailed analysis of 
data tagged by filtering tools. Although machine-generated data can provide 
leads, well-trained human analysts are required to investigate links between 
isolated pieces of information.

In its current form, Louie said, the 
watch-list system shares many of the faults associated with credit scoring 
services, whose standardized formulas are often criticized for producing 
unreliable indicators of creditworthiness.

"We all know how good credit-card companies 
are at scoring us," he said. "Do we want to have those kinds of systems 
determine whether or not you can fly?"

That said, Mike Hunter, CEO of Anacubis, a 
company that provides tools for linking data, said watch lists are a reasonable 
option, if their use is limited.

"When you're tackling a large problem, 
sometimes it's the only way to do it," he said.

As a U.K. citizen, Hunter has had personal 
experience with watch lists. On several occasions, when entering the United 
States, he was briefly detained and questioned. The reason, he said, was that a 
criminal on the loose shared his name and looked somewhat like him.

Hunter said he doesn't oppose watch lists as a 
means to identify potential suspects for further questioning. However, he 
believes the data they provide is not sufficient for more heavy-handed law 
enforcement actions, such as detaining someone for an extended period of 
time.

Although it may be tempting for agencies to 
screen for potential suspects using simple filtering that looks for 
characteristics like ethnicity or overseas travel history, Louie contended that 
the price paid in terms of civil liberties is too great.

"This great national debate between security 
and civil rights isn't a tradeoff," he said.

Scaled-up screening efforts at airports come 
as federal agencies are intensifying security measures in response to heightened 
fears of a domestic terrorist attack as the war in Iraq rages on. The U.S. 
Department of Homeland Security continues to maintain an orange level alert, its 
second highest, indicating a high threat of a potential attack.

While In-Q-Tel is backed by the CIA, it is not 
a government agency and functions as a private nonprofit. The fund invests 
primarily in companies that develop technologies in security and privacy, 
geospatial applications, data collection and knowledge management.

Recent recipients of funding include ArcSight, 
a security software developer, and MetaCarta, which makes applications for 
connecting text documents to geographic maps.

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58191,00.html

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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no 

[CTRL] Fw: Leading leftwing activist lies about US intentions toward Iraq

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Leading leftwing activist lies about US 
intentions toward Iraq 
Dr Aaron 
OakleyThursday 13 March 2003 
Professional idiot and the Australian Conservation 
Foundation's head honcho Peter Garrett has decided to speak out against toppling 
Saddam's sadistic regime. In doing so he revealed the moral and intellectual 
bankruptcy of the left. 
He argued that America has no right to "carpet bomb 
Baghdad". Who said Baghdad was going to be carpet bombed? In fact, who said any 
part of Iraq would be carpet bombed? It is just vicious smear mongering to 
state, as Garrett did, that America intends to "carpet bomb Baghdad" or any 
other part of Iraq. 
To justify his defence of Saddam's murderous 
regime, and that is what it amounted to, Garrett raised the non-issue of 
depleted uranium: 
"There has already been use of weapons with 
depleted uranium in the first Gulf War, raising anxiety about the long-term 
consequences to human health and groundwater systems. A "bunker busting" bomb 
made with DU was first detonated on a site in Kandahar in Afghanistan, where 
preliminary medical tests revealed uranium contamination on human populations 
100 times the normal level. Any use of nuclear weapons as contemplated by the 
new US doctrine would seriously magnify this kind of damage." 
This guy knows nothing and understands even less. 
Depleted Uranium is called depleted for a reason. The most radioactive 
portion (U-235) has been removed. What is left (mostly U-238) has an extremely 
long half life 4.5- billion years. This means that the danger from radioactivity 
is minimal. 
Mr Garrett tells us that contamination by DU is 
"100 times the normal level". So what? Is 100 times the "normal level (whatever 
that is) actually dangerous? 
Perhaps Garrett should read the DU study in the 
Lancet that showed no correlation between service in the Balkans and 
cancer or other illnesses. Or another one that found no evidence of widespread 
radioactive contamination in Kosovo. 
Garrett says "Any use of nuclear weapons as 
contemplated by the new US doctrine would seriously magnify this kind of 
damage". The implication is that he is so dumb he thinks DU constitutes a 
"nuclear" weapon. 
According to one correspondent: "DU was used as 
paperweights on desks of engineers in Los Alamos in the 50s before the 
regulatory world went nuts. It is used in military shells not because if it very 
weak radioactivity, but because of its very high density (about 19gm/cc). As 
such it has high penetrating power." 
The truth is that DU is more of a hazard as a heavy 
metal rather than for its radioactivity. 
What really made Garrett's article morally 
offensive was its refusal to not only acknowledge the need to remove this Arab 
Pol Pot but its insinuation that this murderous thug's regime has the same moral 
right to self-defence as any democracy. 
It is time that the leftwing likes of Garrett were 
held to account for their hypocrisy and made to explain why the people of Iraq 
are less deserving of liberty than themselves. 
Perhaps that is why our leftwingers remain silent 
while Saddam's thugs crucify children, publicly behead women, set people on fire 
and torture children in front of their parents. And that is just Saddam's entre 
to his smorgasbord of mass murder and torture. 
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] Fw: 'See men shredded, then say you don't back war'

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



'See men shredded, then say you don't back 
war' By Ann Clwyd (UK Labour M.P. for Cynon Valley) The Times, March 18, 2003. 
The Times 
March 18, 2003 
See men shredded, then say you don't back war By 
Ann Clwyd There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were 
dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head 
first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It 
was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in 
plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one 
occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Husseins youngest son] personally 
supervise these murders. 
This is one of the many witness statements that 
were taken by researchers from Indict  the organisation I chair  to provide 
evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, 
crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two 
weeks. 
Another witness told us about practices of the 
security services towards women: Women were suspended by their hair as 
their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . 
women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their 
periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation. 
The accounts Indict has heard over the past six 
years are disgusting and horrifying. Our task is not merely passively to record 
what we are told but to challenge it as well, so that the evidence we produce is 
of the highest quality. All witnesses swear that their statements are true and 
sign them. 
For these humanitarian reasons alone, it is 
essential to liberate the people of Iraq from the regime of Saddam. The 17 UN 
resolutions passed since 1991 on Iraq include Resolution 688, which calls for an 
end to repression of Iraqi civilians. It has been ignored. Torture, execution 
and ethnic-cleansing are everyday life in Saddams Iraq. 
Were it not for the no-fly zones in the south 
and north of Iraq  which some people still claim are illegal  the Kurds and 
the Shia would no doubt still be attacked by Iraqi helicopter gunships. 
For more than 20 years, senior Iraqi officials 
have committed genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. This list 
includes far more than the gassing of 5,000 in Halabja and other villages in 
1988. It includes serial war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war; the genocidal 
Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88; the invasion of Kuwait and 
the killing of more than 1,000 Kuwaiti civilians; the violent suppression, which 
I witnessed, of the 1991 Kurdish uprising that led to 30,000 or more civilian 
deaths; the draining of the Southern Marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically 
cleansed thousands of Shias; and the summary executions of thousands of 
political opponents. 
Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the 
military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot and 
the Ugandans from Idi Amin when these took place without UN help. They ask why 
the world has ignored the crimes against them? 
All these crimes have been recorded in detail by 
the UN, the US, Kuwaiti, British, Iranian and other Governments and groups such 
as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty and Indict. Yet the Security Council has failed 
to set up a war crimes tribunal on Iraq because of opposition from France, China 
and Russia. As a result, no Iraqi official has ever been indicted for some of 
the worst crimes of the 20th century. I have said incessantly that I would have 
preferred such a tribunal to war. But the time for offering Saddam incentives 
and more time is over. 
I do not have a monopoly on wisdom or morality. 
But I know one thing. This evil, fascist regime must come to an end. With or 
without the help of the Security Council, and with or without the backing of the 
Labour Party in the House of Commons tonight. 

The author is Labour MP for Cynon 
Valley.
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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To subscribe to 

[CTRL] Fw: Hollywood stars join with Stalinists to fight Bush

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-






Hollywood stars join with Stalinists to fight Bush
Addison RossNew 
York Wednesday 12 March 2003 
The Oscar-winning Jessica Lange has 
joined, along with a number of Hollywood lefty activists, the Bush-hating WWW 
(Win Without War) organisation whose intention is to subvert the war against 
Saddam's murderous regime. 
Tom Andrews is WWW spokesman and a 
former Democratic congressman from Vermont. He is also every bit as partisan as 
the hateful Lange. WWW is closely collaborating with MoveOn.Org, another 
leftwing anti-Bush group that was set up 1998 by another bunch of partisan 
Democrats. 
MoveOn recently publicized an 
anti-Bush speech by Dem Sen. Robert Byrd, the same Byrd who was a Ku Klux Klan 
recruiter and who is still being coy about his activities while a member of that 
terrorist organisation. (This is the guy who called blacks "race mongrels" and 
who sponsored a bill to name the Senate's main office building after the 
notorious Georgia Democrat Richard Russell: the man who derailed anti-lynching 
legislation in the 1930s). 
What MoveOn also concealed about 
Byrd's past is that this hypocrite vote for the September 14 war resolution that 
he is now attacking Bush for implementing. He is also making the sort of war 
demands of Bush that he never made of LBJ or Jefferson Clinton. Partisan 
politics at their very worst by a race-baiting bigot. And this is the kind of 
joker that Bush-hating Hollywood airheads like Lange and Ethan Hawke support. 
These ever so patriotic organizations 
are linked to the IAC (International Action Center). The anti-American Ramsey 
Clark, who is also a friend of Saddam's, collaborated with the Stalinist WWW 
(Workers World Party) in setting up the IAC, an organisation that also fronts 
for the sadistic Saddam and the loony Kim Jong-il. 
So why do the likes of Lange join 
with America's enemies? Lange's motivation is pure hate. She claims to be a 
patriot but what kind of patriot would tell a foreign audience: "It makes me 
feel ashamed to come from the United States  it is humiliating"[?] Fanatically 
toeing the lefty line on Iraq she stated that the Bush administration's policy 
of overthrowing the murderous Saddam is "unconstitutional, immoral and illegal." 

This brilliant constitutional lawyer, 
political analyst and historian has overlooked several facts. Firstly, the legal 
foundations for overthrowing Saddam were laid down at the end of Gulf War. 
Secondly, the policy of bringing about a regime change in Iraq, by whatever 
means, was signed into law by Clinton. This was the Liberation Act of 1998 for 
which the Senate unanimously voted. Let me spell this out for Lange and her 
Hollywood comrades: UNANIMOUSLY VOTED. That means Democrats voted for it too. 
None of this fazes Lange and the rest 
of Hollywood's celluloid intellectuals, to whom lying, intimidation and hate 
seem to be second nature. In Lange's fantasy world Bush has turned America into 
a fascist state that is "intolerable for those of us who are not right-wing". 
Yet it is the intolerant likes of 
Lange of who have driven the vast majority of Hollywood conservatives 
underground. When Bette Midler publicly called Bush an Bush an "a-- h---" while 
Julia Roberts described Republicans as "reptiles" and Ted Danson sneeringly 
compared them to "lower primates" they are engaging in hate speech that is meant 
to inimtidate conservative-minded members of the Hollywood community into 
silence. For these actors tolerance is a one-way street. 
Having publicly maligned President 
Bush and her country, impugned his motives and lied about White House policy on 
Saddaam Lange wraps herself in Old Glory and solemnly declares, as did Ethan 
Hawke, that "we are patriots". An American patriot who supports the 
America-hating Saddam Hussein? 
Dr Johnson was right when he said 
that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." What Johnson, whose 
patriotism was second to none, meant is that the crooked and the treasonous will 
not hesitate to wave the flag if it protects them or serves their nefarious 
purposes. 
Nevertheless, genuine patriots owe 
Lange a debt of gratitude. She has helped reveal the totalitarian thinking that 
lurks beneath the surface of Hollywood's leftwing fronts. Their hatred of 
alternative views and their unspoken belief that all Republican administrations 
are illegitimate and do not have a genuine moral or legal right to exist. This 
is Lange's real message and it is one we should never forget. 

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the 

[CTRL] Hollywood stars join with Stalinists to fight Bush

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Hollywood stars join with Stalinists to fight Bush
Addison RossNew 
York Wednesday 12 March 2003 
The Oscar-winning Jessica Lange has 
joined, along with a number of Hollywood lefty activists, the Bush-hating WWW 
(Win Without War) organisation whose intention is to subvert the war against 
Saddam's murderous regime. 
Tom Andrews is WWW spokesman and a 
former Democratic congressman from Vermont. He is also every bit as partisan as 
the hateful Lange. WWW is closely collaborating with MoveOn.Org, another 
leftwing anti-Bush group that was set up 1998 by another bunch of partisan 
Democrats. 
MoveOn recently publicized an 
anti-Bush speech by Dem Sen. Robert Byrd, the same Byrd who was a Ku Klux Klan 
recruiter and who is still being coy about his activities while a member of that 
terrorist organisation. (This is the guy who called blacks "race mongrels" and 
who sponsored a bill to name the Senate's main office building after the 
notorious Georgia Democrat Richard Russell: the man who derailed anti-lynching 
legislation in the 1930s). 
What MoveOn also concealed about 
Byrd's past is that this hypocrite vote for the September 14 war resolution that 
he is now attacking Bush for implementing. He is also making the sort of war 
demands of Bush that he never made of LBJ or Jefferson Clinton. Partisan 
politics at their very worst by a race-baiting bigot. And this is the kind of 
joker that Bush-hating Hollywood airheads like Lange and Ethan Hawke support. 
These ever so patriotic organizations 
are linked to the IAC (International Action Center). The anti-American Ramsey 
Clark, who is also a friend of Saddam's, collaborated with the Stalinist WWW 
(Workers World Party) in setting up the IAC, an organisation that also fronts 
for the sadistic Saddam and the loony Kim Jong-il. 
So why do the likes of Lange join 
with America's enemies? Lange's motivation is pure hate. She claims to be a 
patriot but what kind of patriot would tell a foreign audience: "It makes me 
feel ashamed to come from the United States  it is humiliating"[?] Fanatically 
toeing the lefty line on Iraq she stated that the Bush administration's policy 
of overthrowing the murderous Saddam is "unconstitutional, immoral and illegal." 

This brilliant constitutional lawyer, 
political analyst and historian has overlooked several facts. Firstly, the legal 
foundations for overthrowing Saddam were laid down at the end of Gulf War. 
Secondly, the policy of bringing about a regime change in Iraq, by whatever 
means, was signed into law by Clinton. This was the Liberation Act of 1998 for 
which the Senate unanimously voted. Let me spell this out for Lange and her 
Hollywood comrades: UNANIMOUSLY VOTED. That means Democrats voted for it too. 
None of this fazes Lange and the rest 
of Hollywood's celluloid intellectuals, to whom lying, intimidation and hate 
seem to be second nature. In Lange's fantasy world Bush has turned America into 
a fascist state that is "intolerable for those of us who are not right-wing". 
Yet it is the intolerant likes of 
Lange of who have driven the vast majority of Hollywood conservatives 
underground. When Bette Midler publicly called Bush an Bush an "a-- h---" while 
Julia Roberts described Republicans as "reptiles" and Ted Danson sneeringly 
compared them to "lower primates" they are engaging in hate speech that is meant 
to inimtidate conservative-minded members of the Hollywood community into 
silence. For these actors tolerance is a one-way street. 
Having publicly maligned President 
Bush and her country, impugned his motives and lied about White House policy on 
Saddaam Lange wraps herself in Old Glory and solemnly declares, as did Ethan 
Hawke, that "we are patriots". An American patriot who supports the 
America-hating Saddam Hussein? 
Dr Johnson was right when he said 
that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." What Johnson, whose 
patriotism was second to none, meant is that the crooked and the treasonous will 
not hesitate to wave the flag if it protects them or serves their nefarious 
purposes. 
Nevertheless, genuine patriots owe 
Lange a debt of gratitude. She has helped reveal the totalitarian thinking that 
lurks beneath the surface of Hollywood's leftwing fronts. Their hatred of 
alternative views and their unspoken belief that all Republican administrations 
are illegitimate and do not have a genuine moral or legal right to exist. This 
is Lange's real message and it is one we should never forget. 

A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the 

Re: [CTRL] Dumb and Dumber

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



WellI don't think a term like "crapola" 
really adds anything much to anyone's knowledgebase. 

And really, it's a bit rich coming from 
aperson who reposts cheap, shady Judeo-phobicrants, shabbily 
disguised in esoteric codswallop from the mewlingvoice of Michael A. 
Hoffman II -- the hawg-caller and chicken manure salesman from KKK-Coeur 
d'Alene, Idaho, whose gibberish could only appeal to like minds witha 
brain capacity of a squished worm.

Frankly, I didn't think it was all that bad an 
article myself. It partly points out the facile dogmas and idiocyof 
Left-speak.

Let's face it, the mewling hordes of the Left 
areblood-sucking parasitesliving on the arse-end of the Far Right 
and its sycophanticclerico-fascist supporters. 

All the anti-war drivel that comes from the 
Left is just aveil. 

TheLeftneed this war to give 
themselves some meaning and purpose to their useless lives, to aggrandise their 
shallow guilt-ridden psyches andto find a demon to cast their hate and 
vitriol upon,as much as the Right wanted this war for its own ideological 
and mercantile interests. 

Let's be honest, the Left is a parasitic form 
of ideological existence. It survives in a symbiotic relationship to the Right. 
It simply has nothing constructive or concrete to offer in the present except 
do-gooder clichsabout "peace". When they dorise to power, they 
squander the wealth and resources of peoples and nations 
alikeandexpose their true colours -- megalomaniacal 
control-freaks.

That said -- any authorwho says 
thatthe former WWII Zyklon B salesmen, amateur stage actor come pope JP II 
and thepapal Reich should be tried, has got half way to getting 
some of my attention.

Dave.



- Original Message - 

  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:08 
PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Dumb and Dumber
  -Caveat Lector- Ah, the 
  neo-con National Review claiming that there is no neo-con conspiracy. 
  Thanks for the self-indulgent crapola 
  Newmedia...deleteBill.In a message dated 3/23/2003 
  7:01:29 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  THE SO-CALLED 
NEOCONSERVATIVE CONSPIRACYIn a variety of subtle ways, it is alleged 
that the war is part of a neoconservative (read, Jewish) plot to force us to 
fight Sharon's battles. This conspiracy theory usually unfolds with 
preemptive  and often angry  disavowals that the suspicion is not at all 
anti-Semitic. Then it proceeds to round up the usual suspects: Perle, 
Wolfowitz, The Weekly Standard, Commentary, 
  etc.A 
  HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION  
  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not 
  soap-boxing?please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its 
  many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds?is used politically by 
  different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 
  of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
  of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 
  no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Hashemite Antichrist?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



For some reason I get a strong sense that 
I'm being treated to a political message (mis)using the bible as a pretext to 
demonise a political enemy.

It runs along the lines of the Roman 
Catholic Jesuit Futurists, Anglo-American Dispensationalists and assorted 
Christian Zionists (not Jews) who first concocted the political rise of the 
State of Israel in'bible prophecy' which became 
aself-fulfilling prophecywith the exercise of 
political machinations in the West. 

Amid the prophetic machinations, up 
popsthe founder of Jewish Zionism who promises to make the pope(s) 
(erstwhile enemies of the Jews), "messianic" figures amongst Jews in return for 
the popes support of the ersatz political State of Israel. Without the support 
of Christian Zionists, no such State would have been possible. 

It is also clear from even a meagre 
reading of the bible that the following statement is faulty:

  "The scriptures reveal a lot about this person who turns 
  out to be the false deliverer. In them we discover his origins, his 
  motivation, his reign of seven years and his actions during each of the first 
  and second half of his reign. He is called by many names. Man of Sin, Son of 
  Perdition, The Wicked One, The Beast, The Little Horn, Gog, Antichrist, 
  the prince that shall come and The Peacemaker. But they're all 
  the same person."
These symbols are not all 
synonymous and certainly not all are symbols fora "person" as 
claimed. For example, the term "Beast" in bible prophecy refers not to 
a "person" as alleged, but to an empire, kingdom, nation or 
State.

See for example the book of Daniel 
Chapter 7 (cf vs 7:3which says "And four great beasts 
came up from the sea, diverse one from another." The prophet in vision sees 
the rise of successive empires which are likened to wild beasts 
rising up from a "sea" of tumultuous 
peoples).

I am not about to give a 
theological dissertation, I'm simply pointing out a fallacy in the authors 
political message which any layman can see if they simply bother to look at the 
literature these people quote.

Furthermore, I seriously wonder if 
this statement supports or demolishes the writers argument:

  "The worlds 
  undivided attention is presently being directed towards those very 
  kings, and that very territory, and for good 
  reason."
This is supposed to be of some 
propheticimport in the unfolding revelation of bible prophecy and of 
"anti-Christ". It is allegedly some significant sign from god that all the 
world is watching and the eyes of the world are focused on these 
supposed prophetic events because it is gods will or purpose.

Yet, if one actually bothers 
to read the book Dispensationalists and co claim to use for their political 
theories, i.e. the bible and the book of Revelation, we discover that the world 
is apparently a little confused in its thinking and isLOOKING IN 
THE WRONG DIRECTION.

For it claims of the evil 
antichrist Beast power, "... one of his heads as it were 
wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world 
wondered after the beast". Revelation 13:3

Ifwe are to be consistent 
with "End Times" speculations, it seems to me that if the author claims 
some positive sign from god in his prophetic 'all eyes on Israel' 
and the mid-east scenario, then according to the book of 
Revelation the writers theory is a little back-arsed because the thing 
that the world is wandering after in wonderment is in fact the 
theology and politics of"the beast" and not 
god.

Revelationindicates that the 
'Beast' is perceived as the very power of god on 
earthand the people of the earth "worship" it. This 
'Beast' motif speaks of, and claimsto have some "prophetic" 
significance via a second 'Beast' which arises and which Revelation terms 
the "false prophet" (cf Rev 16:13). Interestingly, whilst all 
the other empires (beasts) arise from the "sea," that is, from populated areas 
-the second 'false prophet' beast power arises out of the "earth," 
suggestive of a hitherto essentially unpopulated area.

Thus, in a nut shell, if all the 
world wanders astray because it wonders over Israel and the mid-east as 
some alleged prophetic sign from god, it seems logical toinfer that all 
these who wonder so are in fact those the bible claims are deceived by 
the 'Beast' i.e the author et al.

Revelation claims that 
"all theworld" is not wondering after any 
prophetic fulfilment from god, but it wonders because of the influence of 
the"false prophet" whose guidance directs them to the worship of the 
nefarious'Beast' power. If all the world wonders 
after the Beast, and all the worlds eyes are turned to 
Israel and the machinations over the Middle East, it stands to reason 
that according to the bible, this is position held by those in the camp of the 
deceived and of the false prophet likewise.

Hitler used all sorts of esoteric 
and bible literature to promote his empire. Nostradamus, the bible, Astrology 
and 

[CTRL] Iraqi's -would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



"A group of American 
anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers 
made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot 
without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American 
pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me 
back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they 
would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see 
their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They 
convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen 
since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow 
torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for 
plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got 
chewed up from foot to head." "


Lucky Break for Jordan 
By Arnaud de BorchgraveUPI Editor at LargeFrom the 
International DeskPublished 3/21/2003 2:46 
PM
AMMAN, Jordan, March 21 (UPI) -- An unintended coalition of U.S. 
air power and Baghdad taxi drivers kept a potential flood of Iraqi refugees away 
from the Jordanian border Friday. The U.N. refugee agency and the Jordanian 
government were expecting a quarter of million people to stream across the 
border. Jordan is already home for 400,000 Iraqi refugees from the first Gulf 
War. 
U.S. fighter bombers took out the only gas station between 
Baghdad and the border, a distance of 600 kilometers. The one-camel village of 
Ramadi was also the only phone booth on the desert road and a Jordanian was 
killed by the explosion of the gas station while making a call to his parents in 
Amman to let them know he was on his way home.
At the same time, the few taxi drivers in Baghdad willing to run 
the risk of making it to the Jordanian border are charging $1,500 per passenger. 
Very few Iraqis can afford the fare. As a result, only some 300 TCNs (Third 
Country Nationals) reached the border post since the bombing started. They were 
mostly Sudanese and Egyptians. There were no Iraqis among them. They had to hump 
their luggage 1.8 miles across no-man's-land on foot to Al Karama, the first 
Jordanian outpost. From there, they were bused to the tent city at the Ruwaished 
refugee camp, 36 miles inside Jordan. 
The Sudanese and Egyptian governments agreed to pay for 
Jordanian Airlines charters to fly their nationals home. 
A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with 
Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours 
of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth 
Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI 
the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on 
camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They 
were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's 
bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which 
the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick 
sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put 
in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their 
screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."
Iran informed the UN refugee agency Friday that it now has 3,000 
Iraqi refugees. Syria said its numbers were "insignificant." The picture could 
change for the worse as the United States steps up the bombing of Baghdad with a 
"shock and awe" campaign designed to stun and collapse what's left of the 
regime. Acute food shortages are expected before U.S. troops liberate Baghdad. 
U.N. officials in the Iraqi capital radioed today that some 500 disadvantaged 
children were suffering from malnutrition and they were rounding whatever 
supplies they could find. 
Prior to the war, some 700 tanker trucks shuttled daily between 
both countries. Jordan consumes 12,000 tons of oil a day. All of it comes from 
Iraq at discounted prices under the U.N. oil-for-food program. Some 2,600 and 
1,500 Iraqi tankers have been involved in the overland oil traffic. Movement was 
down to 140 tankers the day before the bombing started. It stopped abruptly two 
days ago. 
Jordan had made plans for a quick switch to tankers anchored off 
Aqaba. Qatar had pledged to replace whatever shortfall Jordan 
experienced.
Jordanians see a good omen in the daily arrival of almost 1,000 
white storks. They alight near the Safeway on one of Amman's seven hills, a pit 
stop on their way from Africa to their east European breeding grounds. About 
100,000 storks are expected at the Safeway for the next month, numbers not seen 
in 10 years, and a sign of ample rain and a good harvest.
The official and private views of some ranking Jordanian 
officials appear to be diametrically opposed. Officially, 

[CTRL] Saddam's son beats 12-year-olds who say no to sex: defectors

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-

Saddam's son beats 12-year-olds who say no to sex: defectors

March 22 2003, 8:20 AM

Saddam Hussein's eldest son mercilessly beats girls as young as 12 on the
soles of their feet if they refuse to sleep with him, Iraqi defectors said
today.

Uday Hussein forces head teachers of schools in Baghdad's poorest districts
to send pupils to his palace where he arranges dates with those he likes.

If the chosen girls annoy him in anyway they are dangled over a wooden beam
held by his bodyguards and repeatedly hit with a wooden club, according to
two former members of his inner circle who recently fled Iraq.

He does it to a girl if she says she doesn't want to go out with him, or if
she finds another boyfriend, or is late or reluctant, one defector told
Vanity Fair magazine.

The 38-year-old warns victims not to flinch while the beating is
administered or they will have their legs broken. He often hits them up to
50 times, the report claimed.

Afterwards, when they can barely walk, he orders them to dance.

Uday, head of Iraq's Olympic Committee, was known to have beaten football
players and athletes when they lost.

The defectors said he also inflicted beatings, imprisonment and torture on
close friends and business associates - simply for being late to a meeting
or irritating him.

His punishments have become more brutal since an assassination attempt in
1996 which left him with walking difficulties and problems having sex.

Some victims have been branded on the buttocks with hot irons.

Uday tells them, 'this mark is never going to go from your body, so you'll
remember me until the day you die', one defector said.

One former friend died after being held down and made to drink huge
quantities of pure alcohol.

Business rivals have been shot in the arm or a leg and then allowed to bleed
slowly to death.

Uday also likes to deflower virginity, knowing that no one will touch them
after he has slept with them, the defectors said.

He likes joking about with his friends: 'look at her, after this she'll be
a prostitute'.

The defectors have been debriefed by MI6 and Pentagon officials and are
regarded as reliable sources on the workings of Saddam's regime, the
magazine said.

Intelligence officials believe Uday may have been in the bunker hit by a
cruise missile in the decapitation strike on Baghdad in the first hours of
the war.

His younger brother, Qusay, is Saddam's heir after Uday fell out of favour
when he murdered a close friend of his father in 1988.

PA


This story was found at:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/22/1047749972209.html

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Dumb and Dumber

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




  
  


  


  
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  March 21, 2003 8:45 
  a.m.Dumb and 
  DumberConventional ignorance 
  about the present war.
  

THE WORLDWIDE 
JIHAD MYTHReligion, we have been warned, is man's oldest, his 
deepest urge. Thus we are stirring up a hornet's nest in Iraq that will unleash 
forces beyond our control. The novelist Margaret Atwood recently warned of just 
that dire scenario. So does al-Jazeera, the electronic madrassa of the 
Arab world.
Yet we are still trying to acquire bases in a 
NATO-allied Muslim Turkey to attack Islamic Iraq. A northern front is desirable 
in large part so that Turks do not butcher the Muslims of Kurdistan (currently 
under attack by Islamic al Qaedists) even as we liberate other Muslims from 
Saddam Hussein. At the same time, remember, we are being thwarted by 
Catholic/Protestant France and Germany as well as by Orthodox Russia. 

Iranian Shiites threaten to help their brethren 
in Iraq against secular Baathists. But they also want to fight Sunni Muslims. 
Indeed, in the past three decades Iranians, Iraqis, and Egyptians — not 
Americans — all preferred to fight during Ramadan. And is the Muslim world going 
to rise up to strike America — which saved and fed Islamic Afghans, Kuwaitis, 
Bosnians, Kosovars, and Somalis? Or will it hit the Russians, who killed 200,000 
Muslims in Chechnya; or the Iraqis, who butchered 500,000 Shiite Iranians; or 
the Kuwaitis, who ethnically cleansed their kingdom of Palestinians?
The present crisis is far too complex to dismiss 
as a simple jihad. It resembles more the festering Balkan boil — likewise lanced 
by the U.S. military. Protestant and Catholic Americans bombed Orthodox 
Christian Serbs to save Islamic Bosnians and Kosovars — and were met with 
silence from the Muslim world, outrage from the Orthodox, and indifference from 
the European Catholic and Protestant. 
THE SO-CALLED 
NEOCONSERVATIVE CONSPIRACYIn a variety of subtle ways, it is 
alleged that the war is part of a neoconservative (read, Jewish) plot to force 
us to fight Sharon's battles. This conspiracy theory usually unfolds with 
preemptive — and often angry — disavowals that the suspicion is not at all 
anti-Semitic. Then it proceeds to round up the usual suspects: Perle, Wolfowitz, 
The Weekly Standard, Commentary, etc.
Yet if we choose to concentrate on individuals 
rather than on the American public (which is 98 percent non-Jewish and living 
outside New York and Washington, and is being polled weekly), there are really 
five people who are preeminent in crafting American foreign policy: George Bush, 
Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld. Three of them 
may be WASPs; the other two are African American. None are Jewish. All have a 
track record of being testy and independent, and hardly willing to be railroaded 
by anyone. And past history suggests that American successes in the Middle East 
usually lead to pressure on, not a free hand for, Israel.
Prior to the September attacks, Bush  co. 
were casting doubts on neoconservative ideas of "nation building" and 
Clintonian-type unilateral interventions — and I suspect they will all return to 
those affinities once the Iraq and North Korea crises have passed. But while the 
Bush team shares a wide variety of viewpoints, they all have reluctantly agreed 
that in a post-9/11 world, the United States will never be safe with an unhinged 
fascist dictator still in power — especially one who has a long history of 
surprise attacks against sovereign states, coupled with a habit of both 
acquiring weapons of mass destruction and abetting terrorists. 
Midwesterners, westerners, and southerners — not 
eastern neoconservative Jews — are running this government. And they are going 
to war not for Israel, but because, like all Americans (including and especially 
Wolfowitz and Perle), they don't like allowing the safety of their beloved 
country to be contingent on the promises of assassins like Saddam Hussein, or of 
those appeasing neutrals who say not to worry about Saddam Hussein.
THE LEGEND OF 
INTERNATIONAL WISDOMYet many of those unhappy with the Texan 
flavor of Bush's rhetoric wish to listen to more sophisticated, international 
voices of ethics and compassion. Perhaps they desire to not be "hated" by the 
Europeans; or they entertain fears about doing anything that might be costly or 
unpleasant. Or maybe they failed to grasp the two iron laws of this crisis which 
trump all silly discussions about diplomatic tact and politeness: Saddam Hussein 
would never have disarmed without force and the French-led Europeans 
would never have supported the United States anyway.
Who knows? But they should at least reconsider 
how moral these non-state institutions really are — and perhaps recall that 
Socrates 

Re: [CTRL] Kurdistan Liberated by American forces!!!!!!

[David Sutherland]

Title: Kurdistan Regional Government Home
-Caveat Lector-





  http://www.krg.org/
  Kirkuk, the ancient capital of Kurdistan as of 
  03.00 hours Eastern Time was under complete control of the American 
  Military!!! 
  
  God Bless America - God Bless Kurdistan ! 
  
  
  Kurds were promised autonomy in the Treaty of 
  Sevres (1920) but the treaty was never ratified (Once again the League of 
  Nations and later the United Nations failed at carrying out promises and true 
  justice). Instead, a peace treaty between the allies and Turkey, Treaty 
  of Lausanne (1923), was adopted which did not mention any rights for 
  Kurds. Kurds were not mentioned in any subsequent international document 
  until the UN Security Council Resolution 688 was passed in April 1991. 
  
  
  The time is now for the citizens of the world 
  to act and to promote JUSTICE and see to it that Kurdistan is established with 
  a democratic government and a homeland is finally created for the Kurdish 
  people! Let your government representatives know this, let the United Nations 
  know!
  
  
  
  
  


  
  
  

  
  

  
  
 
  
 http://www.krg.org/
  

  
  


  
  
  


  
  

  
  

  


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  Contact Us KRG is proud to 
  have representation all over the world The Kurdistan Regional Government in Erbil 
  


  Phone: 873-156-2753#Fax: 001-651-846-6051 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email 2: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
KRG 
  Representation in the United States* 
  


  Office:202 776 7196 Fax: 
202 887 9168 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Kurdistan Regional 
Government-Erbil USA Representation 1050 Seventeenth 
Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 
*Nijyar H. 
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  Representation in the United Kingdom
  


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BrusselsBELGIUM KRG Representation in the Nordic 
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  Phone: +49 30 7974 8491Fax: 
+49 30 7974 

Re: [CTRL] Geopolitical Grease and Death

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Well he must like you. Ray is, after all, 
putting into practice what you preach - dissent.

Yes --I said dissent, not dysentery -- 
don't want you to think i have them confused. Although ... some 
metaphor might be extrapolatedfrom a disease attended with inflammation 
and ulceration of the colon and rectum, and characterized by griping pains, 
constant desire to evacuate the bowels, and the discharge of mucus and blood -- 
???
I supposeRay just feels there is an 
inordinate amount of consensus reality being projected on this 
forum.

His role is that of the nonconformists 
nonconformist.

Dave.


- Original Message - 

  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 3:21 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Geopolitical Grease 
  and Death
  -Caveat Lector- Do you think he liked us? 
  ;-)Bill.In a message dated 3/20/2003 5:12:12 PM Central 
  Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  You are a hopeless conglomeration of leftists, and 
antiquatedJohn-Birch isolationist wonks, who lack the slightest 
understanding ofwhat's actually happening in the real world, as opposed 
to the"Conspiracy Fantasy Camp" in which you live your 
  lives.A 
  HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION  
  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 
  soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its 
  many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by 
  different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 
  of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
  of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 
  no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Re: [CTRL] Is S.M.A.R.T. really D.U.M.B ???

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



O gawd! -- 'is gota h'art.Jeez 
-- and theywere all saying you're a heartless cold-blooded reptile Ray? 
How wrong could they be.

Personally,I just think people 
are people.
My post twernt about 
"survivors".It wasmore about lunatics and self-appointed Crusaders 
that (re)(ab)use the survivors to demonise and denounce their pet hates 
--Victims who materialise into Victimisers when peeling back the heart of 
darkness only to be dragged into the void themselves.

"But unto you 
I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, 
and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I 
will put upon you none other burden." Revelation 2:24 

Dave.


- Original Message - 
From: "Ray Boeche" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is S.M.A.R.T. really D.U.M.B 
???
 -Caveat Lector- 
 Wow, Dave. This was a little heavy for survivors. ; -  
 Ray   On Friday, March 21, 2003, at 03:13 
AM, David Sutherland wrote:   Is S.M.A.R.T. really 
D.U.M.B  (Desperately-Unsubstantiated-Malicious-Baloney) ... 
???   I don't really know ...   
I really have no idea ...   I simply am not aware 
...   I think it might be ...   
It could be true ...   I don't know for sure ... 
  But I have lots of "tales" to tell you about ghosts, goblins 
and SATAN  of course -- Dark Tales from the Xtian Crypt -- rumours 
by fanatic  Xtian Fundi's who allege everybody except themselves is 
"possessed by  the devil," and are workers of the devil. 
  But hang on -- ALL the evidence about alleged "demon 
possession" is to  the contrary.   For 
example, almost ALL "EXORCISMS," that is, the allegation that  Satan 
and his devils are expelled from a human victim (the possessed),  
are performed ON these very same XTIANS who demonise others. These  
Xtians, who blatantly libel others are thus in fact FULL of DEMONS  
themselves. We are informed of this by their very own publications,  
periodicals and regular calls by their own ministers to have demons  
a-z cast out of them.   So whilst I have no proof 
whatsoever that S.M.A.R.T. is D.U.M.B., I'm  sure i could come up 
with lots of hearsay, rumour, innuendo, loads of  paranoia, much 
fear and lots of allegations on top allegations  followed by more 
allegations to vilify ... well that should do it!   
Dave. - Original Message 
-   From: Smart News  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sent: Friday, 
March 14, 2003 6:49 PM  Subject: [CTRL] Possible connections between 
Masonry and Satanism   -Caveat Lector- this may be heavy 
for survivors   http://members.aol.com/smartnews/Sample-Issue-01.htm   Research Study   
 "Understanding Ritual Abuse" was a study done of 33 ritual abuse 
 survivors, from 13 different states. It was written by Caren Cook 
and  is available through the Ritual Abuse Project, 431 Auburn 
Blvd., Suite  215, Sacramento, Ca. 95841. (This address no longer 
works.)   On Page 19 of the study, survivors mentioned 
two primary organizations  that their perpetrators belonged to, the 
Masons (27 %) and the Knights  of Columbus (9 %). Other groups 
mentioned by survivors were the  Rosicrucians, Eastern Star, the 
Shriners, etc. No question was asked  in the study whether the 
organizations were directly involved in the  abuse. 
  In addition to the study there are two page information 
sheets  available for distribution (copies can be made). The study 
covers the  topics of healing, memory, MPD (now DID -Dissociative 
Identity  Disorder), specific abuse, validation and telling about 
the abuse, as  well as other topics.   
Research Article   David Carrico is the author of a 
variety of books and pamphlets that  allege many connections between 
Freemasonry and Satanism. The  pamphlets include : "Christian 
Worker's Handbook, The Guide for  Ministry to Masons " by David and 
Donna Carrico, "Freemasonry", the  books include : "The Egyptian 
Masonic Satanic Connection ~ ''The  Golden Dawn - A Graphic Expose'' 
and ''The Pentagram, Freemasonry and  the Goat". 
  WARNING: This article may have triggering information in it, 
including  graphic descriptions of rituals. Please take adequate 
precautions. All  accusations are alleged.   
The following information is from the book, "The Egyptian Masonic  
Satanic Connection"   " The book, "The Egyptian Masonic 
Satanic Connection" begins by  showing how the mass murderer David 
Berkowitz 'Son of Sam' was  allegedly a member of a Satanic cult 
strongly influenced by the  writings of Eliphas Levi and Aleister 
Crowley, both high ranking  Masons.   
Nimrod, son of Noah, helped build the Tower of Babel. He is considered 
 by the Masons as great because he tried to establish a "New World 
 Order" and he was called the "first Grand Master."  
 The Mystery Religion of the Masons w

Re: [CTRL] Eve of War - Eve of Purim - The Revenge of St Pat!

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-





  
  

  
  
  
  


  

  Troops in the Kuwait desert pray during a St. 
Patrick's Day parade Monday.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  

Mr Hoffmanmight consider a lip-lock with 
the Blarney. He needs all the help he can get. With the blarney added to his 
bollocks bag of tricks and superstition he may have a some hope -- for he has not yet convinced a single sod, nor made a 
rational argument for anything that even a halfwit might subscribe 
to.

I would rather proffer that seeing as March is the month of St Patrick's 
Day -- it is more likely that some sinister plan of the Cryptocracy involves 
therevenge of St Patrick. 

The Irish are extremely hot headed and have a foul temper you know. 

So Iraq is not about any 'Jewish war,' -- asad nauseumbut 
wrongly contested by Hoffman --it's in fact the Irish who are behind this 
proposed war -- much as they were behind the 9/11 bombing of the twin towers 
et al ya'all should know --revenge for all those bad and anti-Irish Jokes! 
"Wink, wink, nudge,nudge, say no more". Given 
thehiddenSatanicsymbolismwithin St Patrick's Day 
chimera, we find many metaphors for the Iraqi conflagration about to take place 
emanating from this occult "Day" and its hidden meaning. 

Do forget that the term "Day," in St Pat's has Masonic 
significance too -- i.e. d 'A' y -- get it guys! -- this 
indicates that in the middle of this wholeIraqiboondoggle 
is the 'A' --arch symbolfor Masonic 
intrigues. It's also partly a symbol of Masonic Socialism. Taking the 
individualism out D.'I'.Y, where the individual 
'I' is made responsible for his own welfare,to a 
mommy societybottle-fed by Masons. Thus, d 'I' y has been 
altered to indicate that the Brothers "A" in d 'A' y 
will nurture you from cradle to grave -- see!

It's quite apparent that it's all a diabolical Irish-Masonic conspiracy 
hatched by the master fiendfrom Hell -Satan himself. The evil 
'Cloven One' - get it enigma-maniacs -- i.e. 'cloven' really 
comes from St Pat's Irish'clover' according to the Irish 
Cryptocraciesown Dabbalistic lexicography. 

Note: to facilitate public brainwashing, some of this 
Dabbalistic teaching was revealed of old, as in the song, "Come Mr 
Talmud, tally me banana" -- as all informed oracles are 
aware. The St Pat's DayIrish-Talmud connection can be found in 
theesoteric Hiberno-Celtic, 'Book of Guinness' --a 
dark, heavy book which few human (non Erse) stomachs can tolerate for 
long.

Legend credits St Patrickas 
"banishing of the snakes"-- really a metaphor for the eradication 
of pagan ideology from Ireland and the triumph of Christianity. Within 
two hundred years of Patrick's arrival, Ireland was completely 
'Christianized'.

As your oracle -- Ialone with sibylline 
power, can decode this cryptographic messagefor ya'all --I can 
inform you that this is symbol languageand applies to Mr Bush who sees 
himself banishing the Iraqi snake Saddam and the Infidelhorde Saddam 
seeks to unleash against the Xtian West.

Halting the Infidel plague of snakes, will 
invariably assistKaiser Bush's plan to plant a mycelium of 
'Democracy' in the region and hence allow the free proselytising 
by Christian Fundi's whose ultimate vision is a global 
Hierocracy where all people may freely 
choose, practice and express their views and beliefs -- such as whatever 
beliefs, viewsand practices the Hierocracychooses for 
them.

TheXtian Kaiser ( fr. 
L.Caesar)Bush rattles the sabre, whilst his co-messiah, St John 
Paul II (the former peaceful Zyklon B salesman circa WWII) in the 
Vatican brandishes the olive branch -- surely out of this symbolic "caught 
between a Shrub, the Saracen moon and New Vatican City" a syncretistic 
synthesis betwixt war and peace must immerge. 

A three-leafed clover, the shamrock is the 
national emblem of Ireland. It is widelyspeculated that St. Patrick used 
the shamrock to illustrate the Christian doctrine of the trinity. The shamrock, which was also called the 
"seamroy" by the Celts, was a sacred plant in ancient Ireland because 
it symbolized the rebirth of spring. 

Clearly, St Pat's three-leafed cloveris 
yet another sinister symbol of the crypto-mantic Western alliance -- The US, 
Australia and Britain. You can believe me, its true, just because I say 
it's true. 

Further, I have deciphered the latest news 
reports out of Australia, whose prime Minister initially denied having Aussie 
troops in Iraq. He lied! Well half-lied. 

The troopswerein fact there, just 
not human troopers. They are a special elite squad of 666 
Koala'sfrom the 33RD Kangaroo Lodge, highly trained to piss 
on Saddam's noggin in chorus. "Wink, wink, nudge,nudge, say no 
more".

Another moniker of St Pat is the Celtic 
Cross: This enduring symbol was created when St. Patrick superimposed a 
sun, a powerful Irish symbol, onto a Christian cross. 
Now who has not seen the 

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Eve of War - Eve of Purim

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Zuukie I must protest!

I for one will defend Bill Shannon's 
(hither B.S.) right to post any racist and 
anti-Semitic rant he so chooses!

I object to censorship!

B.S. does not breech the list 
disclaimer, "CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's 
(sic)need not apply" -- clearly he is neither of these but 
only sounds like one when hepromotes gobbledegook written by these 
people.

Merely the fact that it has feathers, a 
beak, waddles and quacks like an Aix sponsa does not 
mean it isthe common varietyWood 
Duck. Hence, B.S. is simply acting 
the part of a duck. I think there is a clear distinction here -- 
don't you?

To play, imitate, and act the part of a 
racist and anti-Semite, or perhaps a better term would be 
Judeophobe,is a far cry from being one! 


'Freedom of Speech' is what I'm all 
about.

B.S. -- please do not cease to post the 
endless vitriol, vengeance, fear-mongering and hate promoted by the likes of 
Hoffman et al. It would be a sad and miserable day were peace, love, 
joyand good-will to triumph betweennations and men alike -- 
Yick!!! What a horrid thought!

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:11 
PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Eve of War - Eve 
  of Purim
  -Caveat Lector- In a 
  message dated 3/17/2003 10:49:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Shannon, you are a very simplistic thinker. The other 
possibility isthat you are paid to be a disinformation 
agent. Who knows which it is.CTRL is also responsible for 
allowing you to post every day more thanfive anti-Semitic messages while 
posting their disclaimer at the end.If CTRL wasn't that desperate for 
postings, you wouldn't be around.Uh huh.Nothing I 
  post is "anti-semitic" and you well know it. You are hypersensitive and 
  clearly of the distasteful and un-American Israel-first/amen corner crowd. I 
  tend towards America first and foremost and ya' know what Zuukie? Here in 
  Chicagoland more and more people are coming to see things in the proper light. 
  And that's only good for America.Bill. A 
  HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION  
  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. 
  Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 
  soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its 
  many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by 
  different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 
  of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
  of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 
  no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. 
   
  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A 
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A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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[CTRL] .. Jews are behind the Iraq push is as dodgy as French platitudes ...

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Credibility lost amid war 
hysteria
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/17/1047749715461.html
March 18 
2003

  
  
 
  

The idea that conservative Jews are 
behind the Iraq push is as dodgy as French platitudes, writes Gerard 
Henderson. 

It is seldom a surprise when the occasional 
conspiracy theory is shared (albeit for different reasons) by the lunar right 
and the extreme left. But it comes as something of an eye-opener when such junk 
receives the apparent endorsement of serious commentators such as ABC-TV 
Four Corners presenter Jonathan Holmes.
Last week Four Corners ran Holmes's 
report, "American Dreamers", of the United States in the lead-up to what seems 
likely to become the second Gulf War. There was nothing particularly fresh in 
the report. The line was familiar, namely that "a tiny unelected network of 
veteran Washington operators" decided on a course of action which has propelled 
George Bush to seek the disarmament of Iraq by military force.
The guilty party are the "neo-conservatives" - 
meaning a number of US academics/commentators/think tank operatives who used to 
support the liberal left (ie, the Democrats) but came to back the tough-minded 
positions embraced by that section of the US conservative movement which 
supported Ronald Reagan's anti-communism during the final years of the Cold 
War.
There is some truth in the theory that the group 
which goes by the name neo-conservative is influential in Washington. After all, 
the Republicans are in the White House. However, such a finding would scarcely 
justify Holmes and his crew going to Washington. Hence the story within the 
story. As Holmes put it, the neo-conservatives (allegedly) driving US policy 
with respect to Saddam Hussein's Iraq are "almost all Jews whose parents had 
emigrated from Eastern Europe".
Names were named, and some were interviewed on 
camera. The Holmes list included Paul Wolfowitz (Deputy Secretary of Defence), 
Douglas Feith (Under-Secretary of Defence who was described as a "lifelong 
Zionist") and Richard Perle (chairman of the Defence Policy Board). Holmes spoke 
to Feith and Perle, but did not put his theory about the impact of their Jewish 
backgrounds to either - except to suggest in the first instance that there might 
be "a sort of hidden agenda going on here". 
");document.write("advertisement"); 
 } 
 }  
 // --> >



Wolfowitz, Feith and Perle are 
Jewish. So what? Above all, they are Americans. What's more, the Jewish 
community in the US is divided over Iraq - as it is on most issues. In any 
event, the key - and most senior - advisers of the Bush Administration's policy 
on Iraq are the Vice-President, Dick Cheney, the Defence Secretary, Donald 
Rumsfeld, and the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice. None is Jewish. 
Nor is the President.
Little wonder then the "agenda" in this instance 
is "hidden". It cannot be found because it does not exist. Rightly or wrongly, 
the US is contemplating military action in the Gulf because of the change in the 
American psyche after the September 11 attacks.
Dominique de Villepin, the French Foreign 
Minister, made a brief appearance on "American Dreamers", saying, with respect 
to Iraq: "What is at stake here is war and peace; and we are willing to try to 
give peace a chance." This is not only a cliche. Like Holmes, de Villepin has 
totally misread the US after September 11.
Correctly or incorrectly, the US considers not 
only that Americans face a real and present danger but that the US is at war. 
Bush said as much in his recent address to the American Enterprise Institute, 
declaring that after September 11, "we must look at security in a new way 
because our country is a battlefield in the first war of the 21st 
century".
Bush (with Tony Blair and John Howard) has 
become convinced that Saddam may hand over a weapon of mass destruction to a 
terrorist movement which may use it to attack New York, London or Sydney. It is 
unlikely Bush would hold such a position with such intensity if September 11 had 
not happened, irrespective of whether some American Jews, among others, may have 
wanted regime change in Iraq.
The Four Corners team appears to take de 
Villepin's "give peace a chance" platitude at face value. It is not clear that 
successive governments in Paris deserve such respect. The French have yet to 
fully acknowledge France's collaboration with Nazi Germany in the early 
1940s.
Today the French like to lecture about world 
peace, despite their miserable record as a colonial power in South-East Asia and 
Africa and the recent effective support for the mass murderers of Rwanda. 
Moreover, no Western government has a worse record than France in supplying aid 
and comfort to Saddam in recent years. This even extended to Jacques Chirac's 
involvement in the French decision to help Iraq build a nuclear reactor. 
Thankfully it was destroyed by Israeli military action, outside any United 
Nations mandate.
At 

Re: [CTRL] Leo Strauss - Fascist Godfather Of the Neo-Cons

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



Maybe it's just because of life on a sunny 
part of the globe thatI view this article by Steinberg for the most part 
as simply a pile of ignorant gobshyte. Maybe not.

Nietzsche was not a 'Nazi' nor an ideologue of 
Nazism. How ridiculous can you get. His name has been tarnished and demonised in 
the swill scattered from the cesspool of mewling swine amongst the 
clerico-fascists over the decades.

Nietzsche is about the liberation of man. 
Liberation from the State, liberation from man and his superstitions, liberation 
from the manufactured gods of society. He proclaimed truthfully that the 
churches had become mausoleums --the very tombs of god.

For his bold claims, he is invariably maligned 
and hated by the clerico-fascists and their sympathisers the world 
over.

Experts on Nietzsche like Douglas Thomas, 
curator of the USC Nietzsche web-page reminds us that a sister's greed and 
manipulation foundNietzsche's manuscripts placed in the canon of racism 
and abuse: 


  "While it is true that Nietzsche's writings 
  were used extensively as Nazi propaganda, Nietzsche himself would have been 
  starkly opposed to Nazism. Nietzsche was a fierce opponent of German 
  nationalism, and in spite of his critique of Judaism as a religion, he wrote 
  just as often in praise of Jewish culture. Nietzsche's attachment to Nazism is 
  largely result of his sister's efforts to edit his work and use it as a means 
  to advance her own social position during the period of National Socialism in 
  Germany." (1) 
Nietzschesister, like Hitlerists, abused 
his writings to support their personal greed and Nazi and fanatic Nationalistic 
causes.Nietzschegives a scathing review of his outrage at being so 
misemployed. 


  "You have committed one of the greatest 
  stupiditiesfor yourself and for me! Your association with an anti-Semitic 
  chief expresses a foreignness to my whole way of life which fills me again and 
  again with ire or melancholy It is a matter of honor with me to be absolutely 
  clean and unequivocal in relation to anti-Semitism, namely opposed 
  [sic.] to it, as I am in my writings. That the name of Zarathustra is used in 
  every Anti-Semitic Correspondence Sheet has almost made me sick several 
  times. " (2)
Nietzsche maintained that all human behaviour is 
motivated by the 'will to power'. In its positive sense, the will to 
power is not simply power over others, but the power over oneself that is 
necessary for creativity. Such power is manifested in the "overmans" 
independence, creativity and originality.
According to Nietzsche, the masses 
conform to tradition, whereas his ideal man, (whom he calls the 
bermensch"overman" or "superman") is secure, independent, and highly 
individualistic. The overman feels deeply, but his passions are 
rationally controlled. Concentrating on the real world, rather than on the 
rewards of the next world promised by religion, the overman affirms life, 
including the suffering and pain that accompany human existence. He is a 
creator of values, a creator of a "master morality" that reflects the 
strength and independence of one who is liberated from all values, except those 
that he deems valid.
Nietzsche is hardly a 'Nazi' Borg as 
this ill-informed, 'Jeffrey Steinberg,' implies in his demonising rant against 
Strauss.
References 
1. Douglas Thomas, Associate Professor in the 
Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California. 

2. The Portable Nietzsche Walter Kaufman 
[trans.] 1954 Viking Press (ppg. 546-457)
Dave.

  
  - Original Message - 

  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 2:32 
  PM
  Subject: [CTRL] Leo Strauss - Fascist 
  Godfather Of the Neo-Cons
  -Caveat Lector- http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3011profile_strauss.htmlProfile: 
  Leo Strauss,Fascist Godfather Of the Neo-Consby Jeffrey 
  SteinbergIn a June 17, 1996 article by Richard Lacayo, Time 
  magazine named the late University of Chicago philosopher Leo Strauss 
  (1899-1973) as one of the most influential and powerful figures in Washington, 
  D.C.the man most responsible for the Newt Gingrich "Conservative Revolution" 
  on Capitol Hill, and the intellectual godfather of Newtzi's "Contract on 
  America" blueprint for vicious fascist austerity.If Strauss' influence 
  on politics in the capital of the most powerful nation on Earth was awesome in 
  1996, it is even more so today. The leading "Straussian" in the Bush 
  Administration is Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who was trained by 
  Strauss' alter-ego and fellow University of Chicago professor Allan Bloom. 
  Wolfowitz leads the "war party" within the civilian bureaucracy at the 
  Pentagon, and his own protg, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, is Vice President 
  Dick Cheney's chief of staff and chief national security aide, directing a 
  super-hawkish "shadow national security council" out of the Old Executive 
  

[CTRL] Is S.M.A.R.T. really D.U.M.B ???

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Is S.M.A.R.T. really D.U.M.B 
(Desperately-Unsubstantiated-Malicious-Baloney) 
...???
I don't really know ...

I really have no idea ...

I simply am not aware ...

I think it might be ...

It could be true ...

I don't know forsure ...

But I have lots of "tales" to 
tell you about ghosts, goblins and SATAN of course -- Dark Tales from 
the Xtian Crypt -- rumours by fanatic Xtian Fundi's who allege 
everybody except themselves is "possessed by the devil," and 
are workers of the devil.

But hang on --ALL the evidence about 
alleged "demon possession" is to the contrary.

For example, almost ALL "EXORCISMS," 
that is, the allegation that Satan and his devils are expelled from a 
human victim (the possessed), are performed ON these 
very same XTIANS who demonise others.These Xtians, who 
blatantlylibel others are thus in fact FULL of DEMONS 
themselves.We are informed of this by their very own 
publications, periodicals and regular calls by their own ministers to have 
demons a-z cast out of them.

So whilst I have no proof whatsoever that 
S.M.A.R.T. is D.U.M.B., I'm sure i could come up withlots 
of hearsay, rumour, innuendo, loads of paranoia, much fear and lots of 
allegations on top allegations followed by more allegations to vilify ... well 
that should do it!

Dave.



- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Smart News 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:49 
PM
  Subject: [CTRL] Possible connections 
  between Masonry and Satanism
  -Caveat Lector- this may be heavy for survivorshttp://members.aol.com/smartnews/Sample-Issue-01.htm
  Research Study"Understanding 
  Ritual Abuse" was a study done of 33 ritual abuse survivors, from 13 different 
  states. It was written by Caren Cook and is available through the Ritual Abuse 
  Project, 431 Auburn Blvd., Suite 215, Sacramento, Ca. 95841. (This address no 
  longer works.)On Page 19 of the study, survivors mentioned two primary 
  organizations that their perpetrators belonged to, the Masons (27 %) and the 
  Knights of Columbus (9 %). Other groups mentioned by survivors were the 
  Rosicrucians, Eastern Star, the Shriners, etc. No question was asked in the 
  study whether the organizations were directly involved in the abuse.In 
  addition to the study there are two page information sheets available for 
  distribution (copies can be made). The study covers the topics of healing, 
  memory, MPD (now DID -Dissociative Identity Disorder), specific abuse, 
  validation and telling about the abuse, as well as other 
  topics.Research ArticleDavid Carrico is the author of a variety of books 
  and pamphlets that allege many connections between Freemasonry and Satanism. 
  The pamphlets include : "Christian Worker's Handbook, The Guide for Ministry 
  to Masons " by David and Donna Carrico, "Freemasonry", the books include : 
  "The Egyptian Masonic Satanic Connection ~ ''The Golden Dawn - A Graphic 
  Expose'' and ''The Pentagram, Freemasonry and the Goat". WARNING: 
  This article may have triggering information in it, including graphic 
  descriptions of rituals. Please take adequate precautions. All accusations are 
  alleged.The following information is from the book, "The Egyptian 
  Masonic Satanic Connection"" The book, "The Egyptian Masonic Satanic 
  Connection" begins by showing how the mass murderer David Berkowitz 'Son of 
  Sam' was allegedly a member of a Satanic cult strongly influenced by the 
  writings of Eliphas Levi and Aleister Crowley, both high ranking 
  Masons.Nimrod, son of Noah, helped build the Tower of Babel. He is 
  considered by the Masons as great because he tried to establish a "New World 
  Order" and he was called the "first Grand Master."The Mystery Religion 
  of the Masons was originated in Ancient Babylon. This religion included occult 
  symbols, ritual symbols, occult paraphernalia and candles. Many of the days 
  held sacred by the Mystery Religions, according to Albert Pike (a 33rd degree 
  Mason), are the same ones used by the Satanists for modern rituals (according 
  to Satanic calendars). Some of the God's pictures taken from the Masonic 
  History Book have Satanic or evil Biblical connections, including Ashtoreth, 
  Dagon, Baal (children were sacrificed to Baal), and the Satanic Goat of 
  Mendes.In the "Oath of Nimrod" (1st degree), the revealing of any 
  Masonic secrets is the loss of the revealer's life. Several Masons discuss the 
  connection between the mystery religions and the Masons. These religions 
  included human sacrifice.Freemason J. S. M. Ward claims that 
  Freemasonry is a descendent of the Adonis cult. This cult allegedly had a 
  custom of tying people to trees and castrating them and then sometimes 
  stabbing them. This book was distributed by the Masonic Supply 
  Company.Aleister Crowley was a 33 degree Mason and is considered by 
  some the father of Modern Satanism. He wanted to be called "The Beast 666". He 
  was expelled from 

[CTRL] Solana? a Vatican Puppet? Is ZZuukie a NaZZi ...???

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Zuukie 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 9:20 
PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] More Solana - a 
  Vatican Puppet - Israel or Ishmael?
  -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- 
  
  
  
  

  
  
David, 
You are nothing but a sycophant of the 
New Age leaders.

  So how do you think I'dscrub up in a turquoise robe 
  and with golden wand?
  
  I suppose next you'll be claiming I'm a Satanist. 
  
  
  I'll have to practice my evil, diabolic laugh 
  --"Bwhahahahahhaha! Mwhahahahaha!" 
  
  Cough! Cough! Cough! Well -- I'm sure with your help I'll 
  get there!
The New Age attack started at the 
time of the Fabian movement at the turn of the century and has continued on 
the monotheistic religions, and that includes Jew and 
Catholics.

  It would have been more accurate if you noted thatmost 
  religious Muslims and Jews are 'monotheists'. In fact, Islam is the 
  largest 'monotheist' religion on the planet.How come you neglect 
  that fact in every post?
  
  Catholics worship a trinity of gods and a goddess they call 
  the Virgin"queen of heaven"-- so how you can say they 
  are monotheists is a little unnerving about your knowledge of religion. 
  
  
  Particularly so,since I think you claim to be a Jewish 
  person and Catholics are well-known idolaters who break the commandment of 
  'G-d' not to make, worship or bow before lifeless idols including effigy's 
  of their god Jesus -- theologically a blasphemousconcept to 
  religious Jews.
  
  Further, in principle what exactly is wrong with some new 
  movement having a go at running the show? The Jews,Catholics, 
  Islamists and et al have had a go of it for hundreds of years. What a mess 
  of the world they've made. 
  
  We needfar less religion (none at all would be 
  nice) and far more Enlightenmentin the world 
  today.
Antisemites are those who say that because all 
Jews are not morally perfect, all Jews are morally imperfect. That same line of thinking goes for 
your views on Catholics. 
Catholics who don’t live up to the ideals of the Catholic faith do 
not take away from the value of the morality which Catholics all over the 
world attempt to follow.

  There are no morally perfect people. Your own mind 
  betrays that truth when you say people "ATTEMPT to follow" this 
  or that 'moral' thingamabob. 
  
  The only 'perfect' moralists are usually bigots, 
  racists, hate-mongers, Nazis, witch-hunters andcommissars 
  whohave the view that they alone are moral and have the 
  right to judge the rest of societyas immoral -- even to the 
  extent that they feel they must rid the world of evil (non-moral) people 
  and evil (non-moral) thoughts.
  
  Hitler 
  thought he was the most moral man alive as did his henchmen. "The 
  Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges 
  but also puts into practice the high principles of the 
  papacy."-- Franz von Papen; Hitler’s 
  Vice-Chancellor; legate to Pope Pius XII and the arch-negotiator of the 
  pact between the Vatican and the Nazis. 
  
  You see, 
  these people thought that the "morality" they espoused and 
  practiced came from god himself via the high moral "principles" 
  of the pope and papacy.
  
  People 
  who are genuinely decent folks, have little need to speak orshout 
  about themsleves being 
  'moral'.
Catholics leadership, like Jewish 
leadership, has to deal with the fact that others are out to destroy 
them. To that end they play 
politics as every other group does. 
This means exposing those who are out to destroy them, who lie about 
them, who work behind the scenes. 
They share information, make friends where they can and attempt to be 
on top of what is happening.

  It's curious 
  then, that whilst youimply and espouse a "behind the scenes" 
  network of activities of powerful establishment religious hierarchies 
  like Catholicism, you rail in other posts against loose-networks of 
  peacenik, flower sniffing, magic crystal wavingNew Agers,who 
  hold a non-violent approach to world problems and try to find common 
  ground with one another.
You are so hung up on hating Catholics 
that it has skewed your view of reality.

  Now you're getting a little uppity and emotive. Do remember 
  -- you condemned emotionalism as recently as your last post. Well 
  I'mnot hungup about anything really.When you get all 
  excited and uppity you just tend to blather gibberish. But I understand -- 
  its just human.
  
  This clichéd "hating Catholics" stuff is very passé 
  -- 

Re: [CTRL] Who is General Tommy Franks?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




The article 
claims what General Wesley Clark is actually not - a Protestant. 


The 'mad 
bomber of the Balkans' who tried to start WW III is a convert to 
Catholicism. 

Raised as a 
Protestant in Little Rock, Arkansas, he converted to Catholicism during its 
Vietnamese Inquisition. 

He learned his 
trade there by killing Buddhists and later applied the experience gained to the 
murder of Serb and Muslim men, women, children and babies in the 
Balkans.

Dave.



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  William Shannon 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:45 
PM
  Subject: [CTRL] Who is General Tommy 
  Franks?
  -Caveat Lector- http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=562Who 
  is General Tommy Franks?Christopher Bollyn - American Free Press 
  If any question why we died Tell them because our fathers 
  lied. - KiplingOverall command is [U.S.] General Tommy 
  Franks, the four-star general, Spencer said. Tommy Franks will work jointly 
  with Air Marshall Brian Burridge, Britains National Contingent Commander. 
  U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) is a unified joint command, which has 
  developed from the concept of the Rapid Reaction Task Force initiated by 
  President Ronald Reagan. Central Command is under the direct command of only 
  three men: U.S. President George W. Bush, the Secretary of Defense Donald 
  Rumsfeld, and General Tommy Franks. CENTCOM has no forces of its own. 
  Troops and assets from the various branches of the military are allocated to 
  Franks command in order to carry out his mandate. Franks has been mentioned 
  as the man who will govern Iraq in the event that U.S. and British military 
  forces occupy the Middle Eastern state of some 25 million people. 
  Spokesmen of CENTCOM refuse to answer questions about Franks 
  background, which is very sketchy, and few details are found in any of the 
  published biographical sources. Biographical entries about Franks are quite 
  unusual in that they do not include the names of his parents or his religion. 
  Asked about why so little information is available about the man who 
  will lead U.S. armed forces in war, a Defense Dept. spokesman said: Hes had 
  his bio out that he wants to put out. He has certain rights. Because 
  we are in a different age, that is force protection, Pentagon spokesman Dan 
  Hetlage said about the secrecy behind Franks background. Thats a personal 
  decision [to release personal information]. It makes no difference [his 
  religion]. He takes his orders from the President. Would it make a difference 
  if Gen. Franks or Gen. Hetlage were in command? Franks is said to be 
  the only child of Ray, a Wynnewood, Okla., construction worker, and Lorene, a 
  seamstress and homemaker. Soon after his birth in 1945, his family is said to 
  have relocated to George W. Bush's former hometown of Midland, Texas, where 
  Franks was a lineman on the high school football squad, who apparently made 
  little impression. When Franks first surfaced as the commander of CENTCOM, 
  journalists could find no one in Midland who could actually remember him 
  having lived there. An archivist in Midland checked the town records 
  for American Free Press and found the Franks family listed only from 1955 to 
  1962, during which time Ray Franks worked at a local hardware store. Oddly, 
  from 1945 to 1955 there is no mention of the Franks family in Midland records, 
  according to the archivist. The same year Tommy finished high school, the 
  family apparently disappeared from Midland records. Having attended 
  the same high school in Midland as the presidents wife, Laura Bush, Franks 
  moved to Austin where he attended University of Texas for about two years 
  before dropping out and joining the army. After serving in Vietnam, Franks was 
  selected to participate in the Army's "Boot Strap Degree Completion Program," 
  and subsequently attended the University of Texas, Arlington, where he 
  graduated with a degree in Business Administration in 1971. Franks 
  collected three Purple Hearts in Vietnam although how he was injured is not a 
  matter of public record. After a long career in the army, Franks, who 
  is an artillery specialist, was promoted to general by former Secretary of 
  Defense William Cohen and placed in charge of Central Command, which is 
  responsible for the entire Middle East area. My faith in God is 
  important, Franks said in an interview, however, it is not known which faith 
  he belongs to. Although it has been said that Franks is of Russian Jewish 
  extraction, the son or grandson of Khazar Jewish refugees from the Soviet 
  Union, like Gen. Wesley Kanne Clark (who was raised as a Protestant in Little 
  Rock), the religious and ethnic background of Tommy Franks is simply not 
  known. That in itself says a lot, independent investigator James W. 
  von Brunn of Easton, Maryland, told AFP. Hes hiding something, Von Brunn 
  said. 

Re: [CTRL] [CIA-DRUGS] Hitler's Nazis and the British Royal Family

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



I'mjust a teeny bit sceptical 
thateither 'webfairy' or 'James Bartley' have a grasp of the English 
language let aloneknowledgeableinfo about some complicated web of 
intrigue about an English Royal Conspiracy, where if, onedomino in the 
intricately muddiedarray istoppled, the whole conspiracy shebang 
falls over.

Were all American and British Liberals 
and Communists Stalinists because they believed in particular Socialist ideals? 
Were all Germans Nazis? Were all Royals Nazis because of some contaminated 
'bloodline' theory?Guilt by some distant association and contamination by 
blood(line) is what this article seems to imply. 

Further, Zion in any literate and 
literary sense,became a metaphor for the reproduction of the society of 
heaven upon earth -- Augustine's utopian "City of God" is a classic work on that 
theme.Most cultures developed a similar lore. Even the US was seen at its 
foundation as theimmergence of the "New Zion". 

The 'webfairy' 
flutters,"Whereever Ickies says "shapeshifting lizards" I mentally 
replace it with "demonically posessed" and everything reads just 
fine."

Well that does it 'just fine' for me 
too --how about everyone else?

It completely takes it out of the 
irrational, inane, crude, banal, fictional, scapegoating-crock arena, into the 
realm of the demonstrable, scientific, sane, rational and factual, where we can 
all clearly and absolutely define which people are evilbecause we can 
prove that they are "demonically posessed (sic)". I 
like that idea, it means i don't have to do any thinking, just say the magic 
words you're "demonically posessed (sic)" and 
bobs-your-uncle!

Given the Press' insatiable appetite 
for right Royal misdemeanours, the worst they have shown is that the toffee 
Royals are just all too bloody human like the rest of us. 

It's just that they have a lot of 
accumulated power and wealth that we would like get hold of or take it away from 
them so that they are even more 'human' like 'us' -- 
since we essentially define such terms from the splintered view of our own 
limited reality.

For people like David Icke and 
'webfairy' to demoniseindividuals in terms of 'reptilian' or parasitic 
'blood-suckers,' is perhaps more an indicator of their own personality projected 
onto othersrather than anything to the contrary.

One feels far more of a chill in 
theblood when reading the psychotic, demonising rants of people like David 
Icke and his Icke-ite acolytes,than about the oft foolish and oft 
deliriously amusingpublic exploits and personal foibles of the Royal 
toffs.

Dave.



- Original Message - 
From: "The Webfairy" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Hitler's Nazis and the British Royal 
Family
 -Caveat Lector- 
 Since David Ickies is under persecution by Richard "Truth is No 
Defense" Warman, David Ickies website has been elevated to my 
list of "Least Likely to Be Compromised" sources, which is a very short 
list. Warman gets sicced on folks who make the Big Guys nervous. 
Whereever Ickies says "shapeshifting lizards" I mentally replace it with 
"demonically posessed" and everything reads just fine.  I am 
starting to think the word "Royal" itself refers to the Templar Crown of 
Sion, and not any particular nationality.  It is the Templar 
Crown who's overarching obsession has been Israel and the restoration of 
the Second Temple, and the Templar Crown with Soverignty above British 
Law right in the heart of London. It is the Templar Crown for which the 
IRS collects taxes, the reason for the accursed Gold Fringe on judicical 
flags, and the true owner and controller of Israel.  
Sion, aka Zion, represents the remnant of an ancient religion that 
practiced human sacrifice as necromancy and considered incest and 
pedophilia normal. Evidence of practice of this religion is visable 
whereever you find catacombs. These were their ritual chambers. One of 
their signs was the fish, but this is connected not to early christians, 
but as a mark of their ancient fish god who reappears as Neptune. 
  FASCINATING CONNECTIONS BETWEEN HITLER'S NAZIS 
AND THE BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY  By James Bartley 
 David,  Congratulations on your new book! A local 
bookstore which specializes in "non-conformist" literature has already 
sold out Children of the Matrix. They had to put in another order 
because the demand is so great.  I just wanted to give my two 
cents worth as far as the Duke of Windsor's connection to the Third 
Reich is concerned. It is a truly tangled web but in a nutshell here is 
what happened.  Edward was originally the Prince of Wales and 
was the heir apparent to the British Throne.  I can't 
remember Edward's EXACT quote but the following is an approximation 
thats very close to the original; "Every drop of blood that courses 
through my veins is German!"  Prince Edward made no secret of 
his pro-nazi sympathies and this as you 

[CTRL] Bush FU 2 Pope - 2 Josh Prudy Party

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




- Original Message - 
From: "Joshua Tinnin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:15 
PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] George W Bush to 
Pope -- "FU" -- Well SAID!!!

 -Caveat Lector-  
He still has to deal with his constituency, many of which are Catholic. 
If Dubya ignores the Pope, especially when the Pope is doing nothing 
more than urging peace, he does so at his own political peril. 
 - jt 

  Well maybe 
  president Bush is a man of principle and prefers to follow his own private 
  ethics above that of any potential populist opinion against him. 
  
  
  On that 
  occasion, "ad captandum vulgus" --'to appeal to the crowd,' may 
  not have been his prime consideration.
  
  Dave.

- Original Message - 


  From: Prudy L 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 9:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] George W Bush to Pope -- "FU" -- Well 
  SAID!!!
  
  My potted Venus Fly Trap 
knows more about god than any phoney "pope".
  And is definitely more 
  intelligent and devout than Dubya. Prudy 
  

The little 
blighters seem very peaceful and meditative and are ever so gentle with 
their prey when triggered.

The last 
notable man that told the pope to 'get stuffed' was Martin Luther. The 
Reformation engendered the Enlightenment and massive social freedoms and 
technological progress.

"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until 
the last stonefrom the last church falls on the last priest". 
Emile Zola

I think its 
worth a thought.

'AOMmmm ' 
Rev 
Dave.


- Original Message - 

From: "Party of Citizens" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 
12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] George W Bush 
to Pope -- "FU" -- Well SAID!!!

 -Caveat Lector- 
 So the presidential pot called the papal kettle, black... 
   And is definitely more intelligent and devout 
than Dubya. Prudy  And for that matter, more than 
anyone taking the Oath of Allegiance in your country. So why do you 
keep taking God's name in vain? Why not remove God from the Oath of 
Allegiance since nobody knows what God is saying as to how one 
should live on this planet.  POC


They do 
listen to god. 

That god we 
all worship and listen to-- the self. 

Dave.
Pontifex 
Maximus Pharticus.
  
  
A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] New York Times -- Is the Pope Catholic...Enough? ''Garrulous Karolus, the Koran Kisser.''

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-



--

  March 9, 2003
  Is the Pope Catholic...Enough?
  By CHRISTOPHER NOXON


  he first sign that something unusual was going on up the hill was the
appearance of a fleet of brand-new Volkswagen bugs, lined up on a muddy
bluff like a row of oversize Easter eggs. It was a local handyman who
spotted them while he was out on a walk through this little valley in the
mountains northwest of Los Angeles, near Malibu. Neighbors had already been
talking about the 16-acre property on the valley's south slope, and soon
word spread that a church group called Holy Family had purchased the site
with plans to break ground for a 9,300-square-foot Mission-style church
complex.

  Among the neighbors who wondered about the new arrival was my father,
a recently retired documentary filmmaker who joined the local homeowners
association when he moved to the area two years ago. This latest project,
however, wasn't the usual commercial complex or instant enclave of luxury
homes that tended to attract the association's attention. It was a church,
that much was clear, but it didn't sound at all like your garden-variety
community parish. A representative for the property owner explained that the
church was Catholic, but it wasn't affiliated with the Roman Catholic
archdiocese. While the church building was relatively large, the
congregation was quite small, with about 70 members. And though religious
practices and rituals would be familiar to Catholics, there was one big
difference: Sunday Mass, it was reported, would be conducted entirely in
Latin.

  Lest anyone get the impression that this band of spiritual seekers
might disperse if the collection baskets were to run dry, a church
representative assured the neighbors that the church was supported by an
unnamed individual congregant with ''tremendous financial viability.''

  Would that explain the VW bugs? The handyman recalls posing the
question at an early community meeting. He was told that the congregant
financing the church ''had given them as gifts to his nieces and nephews,''
he says. ''I remember thinking, 'That's some generous uncle.'''


  The person behind the unusually well-endowed chapel turned out to be
the actor Mel Gibson, star of ''Mad Max,'' ''Lethal Weapon'' and
''Braveheart.'' The church is operated by a nonprofit corporation; according
to public financial records, Gibson is its director, chief executive officer
and sole benefactor, making more than $2.8 million in contributions over the
past three years.

  The fact that Gibson is building a church in the hills near Los
Angeles should come as no huge surprise. Gibson's Catholicism has never been
a secret, and in fact gives him a sort of reverse-exoticism in a town where
other stars dabble in Buddhism, kabala and Scientology. An avowed family man
still on his first marriage, with seven children to show for it, Gibson
smokes, raises cattle, publicly shuns plastic surgery and seems wholly
unmoved by most of the liberal-left causes favored by industry peers.
Recently, however, something beyond the impulse to entertain has been
showing up in Gibson's work. Last year he played a former minister who
rediscovers religion amid an alien invasion in ''Signs'' and a reverent
Catholic lieutenant colonel in the war drama ''We Were Soldiers.'' In these
films, but especially in a new movie, a monumentally risky project called
''The Passion,'' which he co-wrote and is currently directing in and around
Rome, Gibson appears increasingly driven to express a theology only hinted
at in his previous work. That theology is a strain of Catholicism rooted in
the dictates of a 16th-century papal council and nurtured by a splinter
group of conspiracy-minded Catholics, mystics, monarchists and disaffected
conservatives -- including a seminary dropout and rabble-rousing theologist
who also happens to be Mel Gibson's father.

  Gibson is the star practitioner of this movement, which is known as
Catholic traditionalism. Seeking to maintain the faith as it was understood
before the landmark Second Vatican Council of 1962-1965, traditionalists
view modern reforms as the work of either foolish liberals or hellbent
heretics. They generally operate outside the authority or oversight of the
official church, often maintaining their own chapels, schools, seminaries
and clerical orders. Central to the movement is the Tridentine Mass, the
Latin rite that was codified by the Council of Trent in the 16th century and
remained in place until the Second Vatican Council deemed that Mass should
be held in the popular language of each country. Latin, however, is just the
beginning -- traditionalists refrain from eating meat on Fridays, and
traditionalist women wear headdresses in church. The movement seeks to
revive an orthodoxy uncorrupted by the theological and social changes of the
last 300 years or so.

  Michael W. 

Re: [CTRL] The Protocols: Were the Elders really Jewish?

[David Sutherland]

-Caveat Lector-




Father Pierre Charles, Professor of 
Theology at the Jesuit College in Louvain, France, stated in a 1938 essay: 


  "It has been proved that 
  these 'Protocols' are a fraud, a clumsy plagiarism. . . made for the purpose 
  of rendering the Jews odious..."
Too right! Thegood Jesuit 
Professor ought to know. For it was hisfellow Jesuits whose hidden hand is 
made visible in the Protocols concoction.

The site alsopromotes another 
well-worn but deliberate lie -- an out of context quote from 
Disraeli.

Benjamin Disraeli included in his novel “Coningsby” (1844) a passage in 
which the rich Jew Sidonia describes how he travelled from country to country to 
raise a loan, and in each capital found that the minister concerned was a Jew. 


He ends his tale with the comment: 


  “So you see, my dear 
  Coningsby, that the world is governed by very different personages from what 
  is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes” (bk. 3, ch. 
  15). 
And this paragraph came from a 
Jew who was later to become Prime Minister! Needless to say, Judeophobes who quote this as some“proof of 
the power of the Jews,”always manage to overlook the fact that the 
various ministers named were in reality 
non-Jews.

But of course, a lie will travel the 
world seven times over before truth has had a chance to put its boots 
on.

By implication, the reader of the 
Protocols is to be persuaded that the alleged Zionists and Jews head a worldwide 
pyramid of evil to ensnare and enslave mankind.Thesealleged Jewish 
Elders are portrayed as human devils.

One of the many bizarre claims put in 
the mouth of the 'Elders' is that freedom of conscience 
is theirdoing. I don't know about the readers here, but 
personally I don't view individual "freedom of conscience" as evil. To 
the contrary,and to every person i have ever met,individual freedom 
to think and live as one chooses is held in high esteem.

Yet in theProtocols, 
weare supposed to believe that freedom of thought and conscience is 
thedesign and doing of these evil 'Elders'!

  "Freedom of conscience 
  has been declared everywhere, so that now only years divide us from the moment 
  of the complete wrecking of that Christian religion" 
  (cf Protocol 17 sec 2).
Students of history will immediately identify that the intent of this 
phrase is taken straight from the curses of the popes of Rome who shunned and 
persecuted those who dared to dissent from their religious officialdom. 


The 'Protocols' here are stating, 
in a reversed sense, what is anathema to the papacy. In other words, in 
the 'Protocols,'"freedom of conscience" is 
presented as the work of human Zionist devils. 

Thustaught pope Pius IX in his edict: 

  From which totally false idea of 
  social government they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, most 
  fatal in its effects on the Catholic Church and the salvation of souls, called 
  by Our Predecessor, Gregory XVI, an "insanity," viz., 
  that "liberty of conscience and worship is each man's 
  personal right, which ought to be legally proclaimed and asserted in 
  every rightly constituted society; and that a right resides in the citizens to 
  an absolute liberty, which should be restrained by no authority whether 
  ecclesiastical or civil, whereby they may be able openly and publicly to 
  manifest and declare any of their ideas whatever, either by word of mouth, by 
  the press, or in any other way."
What the pope 
says is that liberty of conscience, freedom ofexpression, freedom of the 
press so on and so forthand also those that hold such views,are all 
symptomatic of "insanity".
Another example of carelessness in this forgery, or perhaps an insertion 
to give clue to its actual authors, is found in Protocol 24 wherein it speaks of 
the "King of the Jews". 


Such a statement would never be made by hardline Jews as these alleged 
Zionists are supposed to be.The phrase in fact comes form the New 
Testament, where the Roman procurator Pilate mocks the 
self-importantreligionists ofIsrael, by having an inscription marked 
on Jesus' cross sayingthat Jesus is the "King of the 
Jews".Such a phrase made by an outsider would be a 
grave insult to any Orthodox Jew, let alone a hardline'Elder Zionist' 
referring to their alleged king with such a 
phrase!

Throughoutthe 'Protocols,'the inferences in essence condemn 
near everything the popes and the Jesuits in their vociferous publications and 
"Bulls" anathematised and fanatically railed against -- the Free Press, 
Liberalism, Communism, the Reformation, Liberty of Conscience, by inference the 
Jews andMasons.By implication, it's like reading through the papal 
"Syllabus or Errors" and co-curses of Catholic 
writers.

When 
the implications of the text are placed in reverse, the following appears: 
The Catholic Church is the 
only upholder of morality, the social order, faith, patriotism and 
dignity.
The Catholic Church is the 
only institution which has stood, and which