Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- On 15 Jan 01, at 10:59, Nurev Ind Research wrote: Unstable weather ( by human standards ) IS the norm. But the changes are much quicker and more dramatic than people think. Ice core samples from Scandinavia have shown that the last three " climate flips " took only 20 years. We have grown up being taught that geological changes happen over long periods of time. SOME DO, AND SOME DON'T! There is now ample evidence to indicate that major climactic changes can happen within a human lifetime and even faster. And what about those frozen mastodons who were found with buttercups in their mouths? It would seem to caution that ice ages and pole shifts can happen with amazing speed when the time and conditions are right. sno0wl A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Marilyn Wright wrote: -Caveat Lector- On 15 Jan 01, at 10:59, Nurev Ind Research wrote: Unstable weather ( by human standards ) IS the norm. But the changes are much quicker and more dramatic than people think. Ice core samples from Scandinavia have shown that the last three " climate flips " took only 20 years. We have grown up being taught that geological changes happen over long periods of time. SOME DO, AND SOME DON'T! There is now ample evidence to indicate that major climactic changes can happen within a human lifetime and even faster. And what about those frozen mastodons who were found with buttercups in their mouths? It would seem to caution that ice ages and pole shifts can happen with amazing speed when the time and conditions are right. sno0wl Ice ages don't happen fast enough to freeze mastodons. 20 years is what I have seen studies on. As for Pole shifts, I can't quite accept them yet. Frozen Mastodons with undigested food in their stomachs are really intriguing though. J2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:18:52 -0500 Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- 1/16/01 This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. Well here is one 'asshole' who can dispute it. Are you familiar with the whole Du Pont/CFC scam? If the ice caps are melting (and it's a big 'IF'), big deal. 90% of the ice is below sea level. If ice is below sea level and melts, there is no net increase in the water level. Predictions of the seas rising dramatically are bunk. Similarly the whole CFC scam. Ozone is O1, single oxygen molecules. Ozone is formed by the sun hitting the upper atmosphere and splitting the oxygen molecules into two. It's constantly being created naturally. The major thing which destroys it is jet aeroplanes, but you don't hear the big corporations behind the CFC scam asking for the banning of civil and military jets. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- 90% of the ice is below sea level. Source, please. A HREF!ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ÝÝÝÚrchives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF!ttp://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF!ttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A o subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- 90% of the ice is below sea level. Source, please. No source should be necessary for a basic fact of physics that is taught in every school. Or you can prove it yourself by putting an ice cube into a glass of water and observing what happens. Put salt in the water first if you want to more accurately simulate ocean waters. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:07:21 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check a geological survey of Antarctica or the arctic. Same with icebergs. the weight of the ice keeps 90% or more of it below water level. It's simple physics. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- From: "Johannes Schmidt III" [EMAIL PROTECTED] If the ice caps are melting (and it's a big 'IF'), big deal. 90% of the ice is below sea level. If ice is below sea level and melts, there is no net increase in the water level. Predictions of the seas rising dramatically are bunk. Faulty science (not to mention logic) there While it is true that 90 percent of an iceberg is below water, it is also true that the percentage of what is above and the percentage of what is below the surface of the water it floats on matters not a whit... Because ice displaces 100 percent of its volume in water. Try it with an icecube in a glass of water...the moment you add the icecube, the level of the water rises in the glass. When the icecube melts, the water level doesn't change; it doesn't matter if 90 percent of the icecube was below water, or 80 percent or 70 percent...because 100 percent of the icecube displaced an equal amount of water. But only a portion of the polar icecaps are comprised of free-floating icebergs; a good portion of the ice is on land, and it is when THAT ice melts, that one has to worry about rising sea levels. Also, you don't take into consideration what the effect of changing vast amounts of solid, frozen H2O into a liquid, and ultimately gaseous, state would have upon the global weather system June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- No source should be necessary for a basic fact of physics that is taught in every school. Or you can prove it yourself by putting an ice cube into a glass of water and observing what happens. Put salt in the water first if you want to more accurately simulate ocean waters. That only applies to the sea ice. What about the ice on Greenland and Antartica? What percent, exactly, of the polar ice is sea ice, and what percent is on land? Give the volumn, not the surface area. A HREF!ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ÝÝÝÚrchives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF!ttp://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF!ttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A o subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- John Cone wrote: -Caveat Lector- --- Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: "Tenorlove" [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain..." Nakano Comments: It is not a question of "Global Warming Yes or No?" The earth's climate is being modified...intentionally. It isn't CFC gasses. It isn't "greenhouse gasses". It isn't too many SUVs on the road. It isn't the burning of the rain forrests. And it isn't the long list of other things you read and hear about in the alleged News Media. The climate is being modified. Since it is a "closed system", when some areas are intentionally modified as to temperature and rainfall, other areas are affected as a consequence (which may be unintentional). We are definitely witnessing and experience unusual weather. If you want to know why, do some reaearch into the writing and work of Dr. Nick Begich and Jean Manning and others who have written about HAARP and related technology. Nakano Greenhouse gasses ARE the cause. What ever HARP is or isn't doing, it can't account for climactic change. This is the height of human egocentrism. What is happening now is normal. This has happened before and the records exist in the ice core samples taken from various points on the planet. The mechanisms for what is happening are being argued, not what is happening. We as humans can prepare, or not. Humans have survived ice ages before. They did so with virtually no technology. We can do it too. But not if we continue with the status quo. The most important first step is to move away from Capitalism and the so called " free market system." IT IS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THE ACCELERATION OF CLIMATE CHANGE. It is also the primary cause of the removal of trees. Trees and other broad leafed quick growing plants are the best modifiers of CO2. We can't change what's coming, but we can modify the results by adding or removing CO2 from the atmosphere. Stopping fossil fuel usage IMMEDIATELY will prevent the introduction of man made CO2. And, increasing broad leafed green plants, will help REMOVE CO2. Both of these actions can dampen the effects of the warming which will hopefully dampen the severity of the changes. There's no way around it. And we are not talking about long time periods here. Climate change IS NOW! Joshua2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Ynr Chyldz Wyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: "Kelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Years ago I read a fascinating article by a geologist - oh, how I wish I kept it! - and he was saying that the geological record showed that the Earth, prior to 10,000 years ago, had a volitile weather system. Then, he said, for some reason, for 10,000 years we have had stable weather systems, which he said had given man the stability needed to spread across the world and develop civilizations. Then he said that this period of weather stability was ending. I think he was right. Which is why I caution people not to go off half-cocked with theories regarding possible weather modification devices... While such devices may indeed exist and be functional, if one doesn't have DATA to assess, one can't make an intelligent conjecture regarding what is happening. What may seem 'abnormal' may in reality be very normal, just part of a greater pattern that the observer isn't aware of. So to say "The weather is very different than what I remember as a child" isn't very meaningful, because while in and of itself that may be true, it could be part of a pattern that lasts decades, or lasts hundreds of years...or thousands of years... We may very well be at the end of a cycle that lasts approximately 10K years...And perhaps this cycle only occurs infrequently, say once every 300K years... In which case, what is really 'abnormal' is the relatively stable weather we are used to...and an increase in the number of violent storms is actually more the 'norm'... June The existing geological evidence shows that this is absolutely correct. Unstable weather ( by human standards ) IS the norm. But the changes are much quicker and more dramatic than people think. Ice core samples from Scandinavia have shown that the last three " climate flips " took only 20 years. We have grown up being taught that geological changes happen over long periods of time. SOME DO, AND SOME DON'T! There is now ample evidence to indicate that major climactic changes can happen within a human lifetime and even faster. Joshua2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Where is other 10% of ice? must be that is why it is light at the top and pyramid shapes? So remember the Titanic for it was April when the icebergs were breaking awayalways thougoht that iceberg was loaded. Saba Pyramids of ice? Little pointy pieces of ice? Ice cubes square - put pyramid in glass of water. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- On 15 Jan 2001, at 11:34, Aleisha Saba wrote: always thougoht that iceberg was loaded. Huh??? What does this mean? Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Jonathan Swift A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- But June, doesn't freezing expand the volume about 10% causing water pipes to burst if frozen and a glass container will break if the water inside freezes? It could be from air trapped inside the ice and would evaporate upon melting not adding to the problem with rising ocean levels as it would be dispensed into the atmosphere anyway. But I was just wondering about this in view of the other kinds of freezing I have recently experienced with extreme weather. Today it is 60+ degrees again. Go figure. Amelia - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'?? -Caveat Lector- From: "Johannes Schmidt III" [EMAIL PROTECTED] If the ice caps are melting (and it's a big 'IF'), big deal. 90% of the ice is below sea level. If ice is below sea level and melts, there is no net increase in the water level. Predictions of the seas rising dramatically are bunk. Faulty science (not to mention logic) there While it is true that 90 percent of an iceberg is below water, it is also true that the percentage of what is above and the percentage of what is below the surface of the water it floats on matters not a whit... Because ice displaces 100 percent of its volume in water. Try it with an icecube in a glass of water...the moment you add the icecube, the level of the water rises in the glass. When the icecube melts, the water level doesn't change; it doesn't matter if 90 percent of the icecube was below water, or 80 percent or 70 percent...because 100 percent of the icecube displaced an equal amount of water. But only a portion of the polar icecaps are comprised of free-floating icebergs; a good portion of the ice is on land, and it is when THAT ice melts, that one has to worry about rising sea levels. Also, you don't take into consideration what the effect of changing vast amounts of solid, frozen H2O into a liquid, and ultimately gaseous, state would have upon the global weather system June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Johannes Schmidt III wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:18:52 -0500 Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- 1/16/01 This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. Well here is one 'asshole' who can dispute it. Are you familiar with the whole Du Pont/CFC scam? If the ice caps are melting (and it's a big 'IF'), big deal. 90% of the ice is below sea level. If ice is below sea level and melts, there is no net increase in the water level. Predictions of the seas rising dramatically are bunk. Similarly the whole CFC scam. Ozone is O1, single oxygen molecules. Ozone is formed by the sun hitting the upper atmosphere and splitting the oxygen molecules into two. It's constantly being created naturally. The major thing which destroys it is jet aeroplanes, but you don't hear the big corporations behind the CFC scam asking for the banning of civil and military jets. I've heard about the CFC scam. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Just focus on this. The ice caps are melting. Glaciers are receding at an amazingly fast pace. Inhabited islands in the Pacific are shrinking and their populations are being forced to move because of the flooding. Is this happening because it's getting colder or warmer? That's all. Joshua2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Vs: Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- August 23, 2000 Contact: Jason L. Jenkins Information Specialist (573) 882-6217 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://web.missouri.edu/~news/releases/icesheet.html GREENLAND ICE SHEET CHANGES ARE NORMAL; NO EVIDENCE OF LONG-TERM CLIMATE CHANGES, RESEARCHERS SAY COLUMBIA, Mo. - Almost three years ago, Curt Davis, a researcher at the University of Missouri-Columbia, discovered that some areas of the southern Greenland ice sheet varied dramatically in elevation over a 10-year period. An extensive study by a team of scientists, including Davis, has now found that normal weather patterns are the cause, not any long-term climate changes such as global warming. In a paper that will appear in the Aug. 24 edition of Nature, Davis and his co investigators will report that changes in the ice sheet's upper elevations, areas above 6,000 feet, are caused by natural variations in snow accumulation over time. "When we released our original findings, they were somewhat controversial," said Davis, an associate professor of electrical engineering who has been using remote-sensing satellites to study changes in the ice sheet since 1990. "Our data indicated that overall, the ice sheet was maintaining a constant elevation, but we found great variability over short distances, with substantial thickening in some areas and strong thinning in other areas." Shortly after his study was released, Davis and a group of researchers led by Joe McConnell, an associate research professor at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, Nev., joined together to investigate the cause of the variability in elevation. Using ice cores, each 45 to 400 feet deep, that were collected from 12 locations around the southern Greenland ice sheet above 6,000 feet, the researchers measured variations in the concentrations of dust and chemical compounds such as hydrogen peroxide, calcium and ammonium. The researchers used this analysis to determine the amount of snow that accumulated each year over the time span of the cores. "Analyzing ice cores is similar to studying tree rings," Davis said. "Just as the distance between a tree's rings represents its growth that year, the amount of ice between layers of certain compounds indicates that year's accumulation in that location." Ice core analysis and modeling revealed that areas where elevation changed dramatically had a corresponding variation in snowfall during the study period. Further analysis indicated these snowfall variations were consistent with natural fluctuations over decades. This proves the elevation changes across southern Greenland that Davis discovered in his earlier study were not unusual. Just last month, two other studies were reported that support Davis and his co investigators' findings. These studies also found that, overall, the ice sheet's upper elevations were relatively stable. However, one of these studies found that most of the lower elevations of the ice sheet were thinning rapidly, with rates exceeding three feet a year in some locations along the edges. "Although there doesn't appear to be any changes in southern Greenland's upper elevations that can be associated with global warming, dramatic lower elevation thinning has been documented," Davis said. "While this thinning seems to have had no effect on the upper elevations so far, more study is needed to determine its cause and the possible impact on the ice sheet's contribution to sea-level rise in the future." Other universities who participated in the study include: the University of Washington, Ohio State University, the University of Arizona and the University of Nebraska. Funding was provided by grants from NASA and the National Science Foundation. -30- Robert F. Tatman Information Technology Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenkintown, PA, USA *Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.* A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- From: "Tenorlove" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain, this winter came early, and I'm sitting here listening to my furnace run continuously. Maybe the rest of the world is warm and sunny, but I'm not convinced. And if there is global warming, please send me some. It is a fallacy (and a sign one has not done any research into the matter) to believe that global warming will result in a uniform warming and dryness throughout the world... While some areas indeed will find their overall temps higher, and some areas will find their overall precipitation lower, other areas will find that their temps are lower, usually due to increased cloud cover -- increased cloud cover which implies increased precipitation. So while some areas may brag about how balmy their winters are, other areas in the snow belt will find that temperatures are lower due to increased cloud cover -- which means more snow, which means even lower temps, as thermal radiation is reflected back to space due to the snow cover. Think about it...if the overall world temp is higher, that means more of the moisture in the oceans and lakes is evaporating; and that increased moisture will result in increased precipitation in certain geographical areas. Increased precipitation means increased cloud cover. Increased cloud cover means LOWER overall temps for that areawhile on a global scale, the temps are increasing... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- From: "Kelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Years ago I read a fascinating article by a geologist - oh, how I wish I kept it! - and he was saying that the geological record showed that the Earth, prior to 10,000 years ago, had a volitile weather system. Then, he said, for some reason, for 10,000 years we have had stable weather systems, which he said had given man the stability needed to spread across the world and develop civilizations. Then he said that this period of weather stability was ending. I think he was right. Which is why I caution people not to go off half-cocked with theories regarding possible weather modification devices... While such devices may indeed exist and be functional, if one doesn't have DATA to assess, one can't make an intelligent conjecture regarding what is happening. What may seem 'abnormal' may in reality be very normal, just part of a greater pattern that the observer isn't aware of. So to say "The weather is very different than what I remember as a child" isn't very meaningful, because while in and of itself that may be true, it could be part of a pattern that lasts decades, or lasts hundreds of years...or thousands of years... We may very well be at the end of a cycle that lasts approximately 10K years...And perhaps this cycle only occurs infrequently, say once every 300K years... In which case, what is really 'abnormal' is the relatively stable weather we are used to...and an increase in the number of violent storms is actually more the 'norm'... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- --- Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: "Tenorlove" [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain..." Nakano Comments: It is not a question of "Global Warming Yes or No?" The earth's climate is being modified...intentionally. It isn't CFC gasses. It isn't "greenhouse gasses". It isn't too many SUVs on the road. It isn't the burning of the rain forrests. And it isn't the long list of other things you read and hear about in the alleged News Media. The climate is being modified. Since it is a "closed system", when some areas are intentionally modified as to temperature and rainfall, other areas are affected as a consequence (which may be unintentional). We are definitely witnessing and experience unusual weather. If you want to know why, do some reaearch into the writing and work of Dr. Nick Begich and Jean Manning and others who have written about HAARP and related technology. Nakano __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Kelly wrote: -Caveat Lector- Tenorlove wrote: I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain, this winter came early, and I'm sitting here listening to my furnace run continuously. Maybe the rest of the world is warm and sunny, but I'm not convinced. And if there is global warming, please send me some. Tenorlove freezing Years ago I read a fascinating article by a geologist - oh, how I wish I kept it! - and he was saying that the geological record showed that the Earth, prior to 10,000 years ago, had a volitile weather system. Then, he said, for some reason, for 10,000 years we have had stable weather systems, which he said had given man the stability needed to spread across the world and develop civilizations. Then he said that this period of weather stability was ending. I think he was right. Isn't it awful when you lose track of a great article? Sorry that I can't cite it - perhaps someone on the list has heard this theory and can share? Kelly Kelly, What you are referring to is the " interglacial " period of an ice age. We are now, and have always been living in an ice age. The cycle runs as follows: 100,000 years.( More or less.) 90,000 years are in a glacial period; where the world climate is cold. 10,000 years are in interglacial; where the temperature warms. It is during this period that plant life expands dramatically in the biosphere. It's not that the interglacial is stable which is important to us, but that it is WARM and stable. The climate is very stable during the glacial period. And, for longer periods of time. The climate IS changing. THAT is what is important. We have reached the end of the interglacial period. Humans didn't cause this phenomenon. It is a natural cycle. This means that environmentalists ( I consider myself one ) are simply wrong if they blame humans. They are trying to make reality fit their ideology. But their intent is right on. While human doings don't actually CAUSE the climactic changes, the do influence them. That means that human activity in the use of fossil fuels are ACCELERATING the process of warming which is part of the natural cycle, instead of doing the opposite. We should be decelerating the process until we can figure out what humanity needs to do to survive the changes successfully. The MAIN REASON for the acceleration of the warming changes is the continued use of fossil fuels, and modern agricultural methods. THE MAIN REASON we continue these methods are because of the type of economic system we have and its imposition on the rest of humanity THROUGH GLOBALIZATION. Capitalism and its motivation of greed, together with its concentration of wealth and power into the hands of those who own and run corporations, ARE THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE TO MAKING THE CHANGES WE MUST MAKE TO SURVIVE IN THE NEW CLIMATE. There is no point to separating your garbage while businessmen pay workers to cut down trees for profit, and Big Oil and car making corporations continue to profit from fossil fuels. This is the REAL bottom line. Joshua2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- --- Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The climate IS changing. THAT is what is important. We have reached the end of the interglacial period. Humans didn't cause this phenomenon. It is a natural cycle. This means that environmentalists ( I consider myself one ) are simply wrong if they blame humans." __ Nakano Comments: You're right about the "end of the interglacial period" and that the long cycles of climate change are naturally occuring. However at this time there is a completely new causative factor in the equation. This new factor is "Scalar Technology". This technology has the capacity to "steer" the jetstreams and major ocean currents. In fact it is being used for this purpose. Thereforethose who blame humans for the climatic changes are correctbut for the wrong reasons. Nakano __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- 1/16/01 This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. For years, the tobacco industry was able to sell their poison without interference because they could create a " climate of doubt," even though the medical profession knew the effects of smoking. This is a common tactic of capitalists. For some strange reason ONLY absolute proof of horror is acceptable before society can make the evil fuckers stop killing for profit. There is no doubt about global warming. None! Joshua2 == DIG alfred webre wrote: -Caveat Lector- Are there any comments or retorts to this controversial report? == LONDON TELEGRAPH Jan. 14, 2001 Global warming claims 'based on false data' By Robert Matthews FRESH doubt has been cast on evidence for global warming following the discovery that a key method of measuring temperature change has exaggerated the warming rate by almost 40 per cent. Studies of temperature records dating back more than a century have seemed to indicate a rise in global temperature of around 0.5 C, with much of it occurring since the late 1970s. This has led many scientists to believe that global warming is under way, with the finger of blame usually pointed at man-made pollution such as carbon dioxide. Now an international team of scientists, including researchers from the Met Office in Bracknell, Berkshire, has found serious discrepancies in these temperature measurements, suggesting that the amount of global warming is much less than previously believed. The concern focuses on the temperature of the atmosphere over the sea, which covers almost three quarters of the Earth's surface. While scientists use standard weather station instruments to detect warming on land, they have been forced to rely on the crews of ships to make measurements over the vast ocean regions. Crews have taken the temperature by dipping buckets into the sea or using water flowing into the engine intakes. Scientists have assumed that there is a simple link between the temperature of seawater and that of the air above it. However, after analysing years of data from scientific buoys in the Pacific that measure sea and air temperatures simultaneously, the team has found no evidence of a simple link. Instead, the seawater measurements have exaggerated the amount of global warming over the seas, with the real temperature having risen less than half as fast during the 1970s than the standard measurements suggest. Reporting their findings in the influential journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say that the exact cause of the discrepancy is not known. One possibility is that the atmosphere responded faster than the sea to cooling events such as volcanic eruptions. The findings have major implications for the climate change debate because the sea temperature measurements are a key part of global warming calculations. According to the team, replacing the standard seawater data with the appropriate air data produces a big cut in the overall global warming rate during the last 20 years, from around 0.18C per decade to 0.13C. This suggests that the widely-quoted global warming figure used to persuade governments to take action over greenhouse gases exaggerates the true warming rate by almost 40 per cent. The team is now calling for climate experts to switch from seawater data to sea-air temperature measurements. One member of the team, David Parker, of the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research at the Met Office, said that the discovery of the discrepancy "shows we don't understand everything, and that we need better observations - all branches of science are like that". Yet according to Mr Parker, the new results do not undermine the case for global warming: "It is raising questions about the interpretation of the sea-surface data." Even so, the findings will be seized on by sceptics as more evidence that scientists have little idea about the current rate of global warming, let alone its future rate. Climate experts are still trying to explain why satellites measuring the temperature of the Earth have detected little sign of global warming - despite taking measurements during supposedly the warmest period on record. Some researchers suspect that the fault may again lie with the ground-based temperature measurements. They say that many of the data come from stations surrounded by growing urban sprawl, whose warmth could give a misleading figure. A study of data taken around Vienna, Austria, between 1951 and 1996 found that the air temperature rose by anything from zero to 0.6C, depending on precisely where the measurements were made. __ EcoNews Service - Always online for Exopolitics a Universe Ecology. EcoNews http://www.ecologynews.com/ Prague
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- --- Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- 1/16/01 This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. ___ Nakano Comments: No argument here. The question is: "WHY"? Why are the ice caps and glaciers melting? CFCs and "Greenhouse gasses" are a cover story The real cause is something very different. You are not going to hear about it on the evening TV news. Nakano __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Joshua This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. MJ Are you describing WHAT you are writing? This 'sky is falling' Global Warming is being chanted by the SAME people who proclaimed Global Cooling in the 1970s ... with the SAME goals. The ACTUAL temperature data does NOT support this 'obfuscation and drivel' (as you describe Global Warming) ... it is various models -- read guesses -- that is at its base. Regard$, --MJ If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000...This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age. -- Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling, Earth Day 1970. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- "M.A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Joshua This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. MJ Are you describing WHAT you are writing? This 'sky is falling' Global Warming is being chanted by the SAME people who proclaimed Global Cooling in the 1970s ... with the SAME goals. So what? The ACTUAL temperature data does NOT support this 'obfuscation and drivel' (as you describe Global Warming) Obfuscation and drivel is describing the article QUESTIONING global warming. Not global warming. Pay attention here. ... it is various models -- read guesses -- that is at its base. Regard$, --MJ If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000...This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age. -- Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling, Earth Day 1970. So what? J2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- John Cone wrote: -Caveat Lector- --- Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- 1/16/01 This is obfuscation and drivel. All you need to know is that the ice caps and the worlds glaciers are melting and sea level is rising. No assholes can argue those measurements. ___ Nakano Comments: No argument here. The question is: "WHY"? Why are the ice caps and glaciers melting? I do know why, and it IS because of greenhouse gasses. J2 CFCs and "Greenhouse gasses" are a cover story The real cause is something very different. You are not going to hear about it on the evening TV news. Nakano __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- John Cone wrote: -Caveat Lector- --- Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The climate IS changing. THAT is what is important. We have reached the end of the interglacial period. Humans didn't cause this phenomenon. It is a natural cycle. This means that environmentalists ( I consider myself one ) are simply wrong if they blame humans." __ Nakano Comments: You're right about the "end of the interglacial period" and that the long cycles of climate change are naturally occuring. However at this time there is a completely new causative factor in the equation. This new factor is "Scalar Technology". This technology has the capacity to "steer" the jetstreams and major ocean currents. In fact it is being used for this purpose. Thereforethose who blame humans for the climatic changes are correctbut for the wrong reasons. Nakano Sorry. I don't buy it. j2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- In my field we use other indicators as to climate temps over time. One of the more important being records of ice in various parts of the world. From all I have seen there is a general warming pattern for the past 14,000 years. Jayson On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:31:42 EST DIG alfred webre [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Are there any comments or retorts to this controversial report? == LONDON TELEGRAPH Jan. 14, 2001 Global warming claims 'based on false data' By Robert Matthews FRESH doubt has been cast on evidence for global warming following the discovery that a key method of measuring temperature change has exaggerated the warming rate by almost 40 per cent. Studies of temperature records dating back more than a century have seemed to indicate a rise in global temperature of around 0.5 ° C, with much of it occurring since the late 1970s. This has led many scientists to believe that global warming is under way, with the finger of blame usually pointed at man-made pollution such as carbon dioxide. Now an international team of scientists, including researchers from the Met Office in Bracknell, Berkshire, has found serious discrepancies in these temperature measurements, suggesting that the amount of global warming is much less than previously believed. The concern focuses on the temperature of the atmosphere over the sea, which covers almost three quarters of the Earth's surface. While scientists use standard weather station instruments to detect warming on land, they have been forced to rely on the crews of ships to make measurements over the vast ocean regions. Crews have taken the temperature by dipping buckets into the sea or using water flowing into the engine intakes. Scientists have assumed that there is a simple link between the temperature of seawater and that of the air above it. However, after analysing years of data from scientific buoys in the Pacific that measure sea and air temperatures simultaneously, the team has found no evidence of a simple link. Instead, the seawater measurements have exaggerated the amount of global warming over the seas, with the real temperature having risen less than half as fast during the 1970s than the standard measurements suggest. Reporting their findings in the influential journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say that the exact cause of the discrepancy is not known. One possibility is that the atmosphere responded faster than the sea to cooling events such as volcanic eruptions. The findings have major implications for the climate change debate because the sea temperature measurements are a key part of global warming calculations. According to the team, replacing the standard seawater data with the appropriate air data produces a big cut in the overall global warming rate during the last 20 years, from around 0.18¡C per decade to 0.13¡C. This suggests that the widely-quoted global warming figure used to persuade governments to take action over greenhouse gases exaggerates the true warming rate by almost 40 per cent. The team is now calling for climate experts to switch from seawater data to sea-air temperature measurements. One member of the team, David Parker, of the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research at the Met Office, said that the discovery of the discrepancy "shows we don't understand everything, and that we need better observations - all branches of science are like that". Yet according to Mr Parker, the new results do not undermine the case for global warming: "It is raising questions about the interpretation of the sea-surface data." Even so, the findings will be seized on by sceptics as more evidence that scientists have little idea about the current rate of global warming, let alone its future rate. Climate experts are still trying to explain why satellites measuring the temperature of the Earth have detected little sign of global warming - despite taking measurements during supposedly the warmest period on record. Some researchers suspect that the fault may again lie with the ground-based temperature measurements. They say that many of the data come from stations surrounded by growing urban sprawl, whose warmth could give a misleading figure. A study of data taken around Vienna, Austria, between 1951 and 1996 found that the air temperature rose by anything from zero to 0.6¡C, depending on precisely where the measurements were made. __ EcoNews Service - Always online for Exopolitics a Universe Ecology. EcoNews http://www.ecologynews.com/ Prague http://mujweb.cz/www/ecologynews/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain, this winter came early, and I'm sitting here listening to my furnace run continuously. Maybe the rest of the world is warm and sunny, but I'm not convinced. And if there is global warming, please send me some. Tenorlove freezing __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- Tenorlove wrote: I have a hard time believing that there is global warming. Last year, here in New Jersey, winter stayed late, spring had below normal temperatures, we had no summer at all, just cool temps and tons of rain, this winter came early, and I'm sitting here listening to my furnace run continuously. Maybe the rest of the world is warm and sunny, but I'm not convinced. And if there is global warming, please send me some. Tenorlove freezing Years ago I read a fascinating article by a geologist - oh, how I wish I kept it! - and he was saying that the geological record showed that the Earth, prior to 10,000 years ago, had a volitile weather system. Then, he said, for some reason, for 10,000 years we have had stable weather systems, which he said had given man the stability needed to spread across the world and develop civilizations. Then he said that this period of weather stability was ending. I think he was right. Isn't it awful when you lose track of a great article? Sorry that I can't cite it - perhaps someone on the list has heard this theory and can share? Kelly A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??
-Caveat Lector- The Global Warming Debate Is Over: It's Real, Inexorable, and Headed Our Way http://www.emagazine.com/september-october_2000/0900feat1.html The verdict is in on climate change, and the news isn't good. Scientists say the effects are already occurring, and much more quickly than they projected even a few years ago. Has global warming begun? Seeking an answer, E sent a team of journalists to 11 "hot spots" around the world. Their mission: to document climate change and its consequences. What they discovered is startling, and represents a profound call to action. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
