Re: nft newbie

[Erwan David]

Le 12/07/2022 à 22:00, Marco a écrit :

Am Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:17:40 +0200
schrieb :


That looks like a sensible strategy to me.


It isn't at all, completely blocking incoming ICMP is a very stupid
idea.

ICMP is used for control messages, e.g. for Path MTU discovery.
The only IMCP message that can be blocked is echo request or echo
reply, everything else creates problems like nasty timeouts to certain
sites.
You can block incoming echo requests and let all others through it.




I did not speak of blocking ICMP, I refered to the ICMP (host not 
reachable, network not reachable or administratively prohibited that the 
firewall itself emits in cas of a Reject.

Re: nft newbie

[tomas]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 08:00:42PM +, Marco wrote:
> Am Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:17:40 +0200
> schrieb :
> 
> > That looks like a sensible strategy to me.
> 
> It isn't at all, completely blocking incoming ICMP is a very stupid
> idea.

I didn't get that "blocking incoming ICMP" part. Just the "DROP instead
of REJECT" part. Blame it on missing incoming coffee.

If it was there, I agree with you: especially blocking the incoming
"fragmentation required" ICMP will cause you lots of grief [1] if you
are behind something with a smaller MTU (cf. path MTU discovery, the
next Wikipedia shop in your quarters carries that).

Cheers

[1] I've seen symptoms like: you ssh into a box, everything seems fine,
   until you do the first `ls -al'. Then the connection hangs. You start
   to believe in ghosts until you understand the underlying mechanism.
-- 
t


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Re: nft newbie

[Marco]

Am Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:17:40 +0200
schrieb :

> That looks like a sensible strategy to me.

It isn't at all, completely blocking incoming ICMP is a very stupid
idea.

ICMP is used for control messages, e.g. for Path MTU discovery.
The only IMCP message that can be blocked is echo request or echo
reply, everything else creates problems like nasty timeouts to certain
sites.
You can block incoming echo requests and let all others through it.

Re: nft newbie

[tomas]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 07:13:06PM +0200, Erwan David wrote:

[...]

> It depends on your settings. Personnally on a router I tend to Reject if the
> ICMP goes to the internal network, drop if it would be sent outside. That
> avoids some weird timeouts in the internal network (put your own definition
> of internal)

That looks like a sensible strategy to me.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: nft newbie

[Erwan David]

Le 12/07/2022 à 17:27, Henning Follmann a écrit :

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:31:11AM +0100, mick crane wrote:

On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies

In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
_policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
allow

All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.

Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over
rejection?


I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is something
listening.
mick



Oh quite contraire!
It literally tells you that there is nothing. And that is the problem.
This way your system can be part of an attack onto someone else.
Because your system creates a message which then is sent to the
address in the src address. And that can be a forged address.
This way you reflect messages to someone else.

In a nice world, where everybody plays by the rules reject would be the
proper thing. Here in reality drop is the better choice.



It depends on your settings. Personnally on a router I tend to Reject if 
the ICMP goes to the internal network, drop if it would be sent outside. 
That avoids some weird timeouts in the internal network (put your own 
definition of internal)

Re: nft newbie

[Henning Follmann]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 06:16:12PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:27:41AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:31:11AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> > > On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > > > On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies
> > > 
> > > > > In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
> > > > > _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
> > > > > allow
> > > > 
> > > > All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
> > > > 
> > > > Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over
> > > > rejection?
> > > > 
> > > I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is 
> > > something
> > > listening.
> > > mick
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Oh quite contraire!
> > It literally tells you that there is nothing. And that is the problem.
> > This way your system can be part of an attack onto someone else.
> > Because your system creates a message which then is sent to the
> > address in the src address. And that can be a forged address.
> > This way you reflect messages to someone else.
> 
> I was thinking of amplification too. But now you owe us at least
> a hint on how you can use a RST to do amplification.
> 

I think amplification actually needs a service running. This wont
work with just a firewall blocking any traffic.

> So far the factor is 1, which doesn't win you much, does it?

It changes the address where it's coming from. You can hide and
bypass any measures to thwart an attack.


> 
> > In a nice world, where everybody plays by the rules reject would be the
> > proper thing. Here in reality drop is the better choice.
> 
> C'mon, show us the code ;-)

Well, it is very simple. If you drop a package, anyone stares into a black
hole. If you have a misconfigured program you basically get nothing.
If any server would respond you would at least get an error back that
something is not working right. Also if we are talking tcp the program just
assumes the package is lost and will resend it. That is just undesirable.
And it increases actually the load on the misconfigured target.

-H



-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: nft newbie

[tomas]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:27:41AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:31:11AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> > On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > > On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies
> > 
> > > > In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
> > > > _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
> > > > allow
> > > 
> > > All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
> > > 
> > > Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over
> > > rejection?
> > > 
> > I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is something
> > listening.
> > mick
> > 
> 
> 
> Oh quite contraire!
> It literally tells you that there is nothing. And that is the problem.
> This way your system can be part of an attack onto someone else.
> Because your system creates a message which then is sent to the
> address in the src address. And that can be a forged address.
> This way you reflect messages to someone else.

I was thinking of amplification too. But now you owe us at least
a hint on how you can use a RST to do amplification.

So far the factor is 1, which doesn't win you much, does it?

> In a nice world, where everybody plays by the rules reject would be the
> proper thing. Here in reality drop is the better choice.

C'mon, show us the code ;-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: nft newbie

[tomas]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 10:09:46AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 7/12/22 05:36, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
> > wrote:
> [...]
> > Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Gareth
> > 
> Absolutely. reject sends a msg back to the hacker that there is a machine
> at that address.
> drop sends nothing back so he'll go looking for an easier target

All generalizations suck.

It depends strongly on what you expect on the other side. For a
firewall/router with one side exposed to the internet and with
well-defined services, drop seems (mostly) appropriate.

If you're running a publically accessible web server on that,
"they" already know you're there, so drop is of limited use
(reject is arguably "slightly" worse, dunno).

But the total opposite can be true. I've seen a datacenter isolating
their database server from the web application server with an NAT
firewall, and those umm... experts had the default policy to "drop".

What happened was, that when the entry in the NAT table expired,
because of inactivity, the application server took HALF AN HOUR
to notice that the connection was gone. It sat there twiddling
its thumbs (which isn't that bad), its about-thirty-users couldn't
do anything (which /is/ bad, esp. if it's a newspaper and those
people are the writers and the deadline is coming).

The data center wouldn't change its setup. The application provider
used a too-old Perl version where you couldn't call setsockopts to
set the keepalive option. And I couldn't get my boss's boss to
YELL at both of them because he was too... far up in the hierarchy
to understand a bit of that mess. OTOH, that company would have
deserved to go under in flames for its incompetence. Alas, it
didn't.

So yes, it depends.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: nft newbie

[Henning Follmann]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 11:31:11AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies
> 
> > > In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
> > > _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
> > > allow
> > 
> > All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
> > 
> > Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over
> > rejection?
> > 
> I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is something
> listening.
> mick
> 


Oh quite contraire!
It literally tells you that there is nothing. And that is the problem.
This way your system can be part of an attack onto someone else.
Because your system creates a message which then is sent to the
address in the src address. And that can be a forged address.
This way you reflect messages to someone else.

In a nice world, where everybody plays by the rules reject would be the
proper thing. Here in reality drop is the better choice.


-H
-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: nft newbie

[Nicolas George]

Stefan Monnier (12022-07-12):
> Except that if you contact an IP address where there's no machine, you
> may get a "no route to host" error (from the router that finds out
> there's no machine at that address), whereas if that machine DROPs, then
> you'll get no message, thus indicating that there *is* something there :-)

And if the cracker are mediocre, it does not change a thing because your
system is already safe from them. But if they are competent, they
probably have other means to know you are there, and the absence of
response will tell them you probably apply advice blindly. And if the
incoming packets are not hostile, dropping silently breaks the proper
diagnostic mechanisms that would have made them stop, causing useless
load on your connection.

I can go on and on and on.

Unless somebody produces a study that tries to quantify the risk and
cost of each solution, I will consider "DROP not REJECT" cargo cult.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: nft newbie

[gene heskett]

On 7/12/22 05:36, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
wrote:

[...]

Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?

Thanks,
Gareth


Absolutely. reject sends a msg back to the hacker that there is a machine
at that address.
drop sends nothing back so he'll go looking for an easier target

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: nft newbie

[Maximiliano Estudies]

El mar, 12 jul 2022 a las 14:13, Anssi Saari () escribió:
>
> "Gareth Evans"  writes:
>
> > On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
> > wrote:
> >
> >> drop and reject are not equivalent.
> >
> > Fair enough
> >
> > [...]
> >> In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
> >> _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
> >> allow
> >
> > All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
> >
> > Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?
>
> Not really, to me using DROP is a simplistic view not based in reality.
>
> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~peterb/network/drop-vs-reject
> covers the pros and cons reasonably with this conclusion:
>
> "DROP offers no effective barrier to hostile forces but can dramatically
> slow down applications run by legitimate users. DROP should not normally
> be used."
>

nft only allows for two possible default policies, DROP or ACCEPT,
thus it isn't possible to configure a chain with default REJECT. Thus
my suggestion to configure default drop (just in case) and a
"catch-all" reject at the bottom of the chain.

Re: nft newbie

[Anssi Saari]

"Gareth Evans"  writes:

> On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
> wrote:
>
>> drop and reject are not equivalent.
>
> Fair enough
>
> [...]
>> In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
>> _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
>> allow 
>
> All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
>
> Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?  

Not really, to me using DROP is a simplistic view not based in reality.

https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~peterb/network/drop-vs-reject
covers the pros and cons reasonably with this conclusion:

"DROP offers no effective barrier to hostile forces but can dramatically
slow down applications run by legitimate users. DROP should not normally
be used."

Re: nft newbie

[fxkl47BF]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022, Gareth Evans wrote:

> On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
> wrote:
>
>> drop and reject are not equivalent.
>
> Fair enough
>
> [...]
>> In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
>> _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
>> allow
>
> All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
>
> Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?

Scammers send out emails to every possible address
If someone happens to respond, "Bugger off", they know they have a good address
If your systems sends a reject notice you're telling someone they have a good 
address
I was taught to drop everything and only open what is necessary

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:31, mick crane  wrote:
> On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies
> 
>>> In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
>>> _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
>>> allow
>> All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.
>> Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?
> I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is something 
> listening.
> mick
> 
Oh yes (!), thanks.  A few other points (from a quick web search) here

https://www.coresentinel.com/reject-versus-drop/

including potential for REJECT to facilitate DDoS on asymmetric links - so it 
surprises me again (perhaps this time sensibly?) as the firewalld default.

Incidentally (I mainly have Gene in mind) it might be worth pointing out that 
nftables has individual and mass conversion commands for iptables 
rules/rulesets - perhaps useful if you're in a rush or just to see equivalence

https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Moving_from_iptables_to_nftables

Best wishes
Gareth

Re: nft newbie

[mick crane]

On 2022-07-12 10:33, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies



In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
_policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
allow


All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.

Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over 
rejection?


I think it is just that 'reject' tells the remote system there is 
something listening.

mick

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 12 Jul 2022, at 10:19, Maximiliano Estudies  
wrote:

> drop and reject are not equivalent.

Fair enough

[...]
> In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
> _policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
> allow 

All the nftables and PF howtos I have found take this approach.

Why is it best practice?  Is there any security advantage over rejection?  

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: nft newbie

[Maximiliano Estudies]

drop and reject are not equivalent.
with _reject with icmpx_ you get an icmp response when trying to
access a system and get blocked by the firewall.
with _policy drop_ packets that are not allowed just get silently
dropped and don't give any feedback to the source.

In most cases it's a best practice to configure all chains with
_policy drop_ and then add rules for the traffic that you want to
allow (there are some exceptions but for normal workstations I would
always start with policy drop). For machines that are not exposed to
the internet I also like to configure a reject at the bottom of all
chains, it helps a lot when debugging networking problems to know if
you are getting blocked by the firewall

El mar, 12 jul 2022 a las 1:27, Gareth Evans () escribió:
>
> On Sun 10 Jul 2022, at 06:25, Gareth Evans  wrote:
>
> > Thanks Roger, that also suggests "policy drop" in its nftables examples.
>
> As someone on firewalld-users kindly pointed out, there is
>
> > table inet firewalld {
> > chain filter_INPUT {
> [...]
> > reject with icmpx admin-prohibited   <--- catch-all reject
> > }
>
> which seems equivalent to ufw's qualified "policy drop".
>
> Panic over.
> G
>


-- 
Maximiliano Estudies
VDT Referat Beschallung
+49 176 36784771
omslo.com
maxiestudies.com

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

On Sun 10 Jul 2022, at 06:25, Gareth Evans  wrote:

> Thanks Roger, that also suggests "policy drop" in its nftables examples.

As someone on firewalld-users kindly pointed out, there is

> table inet firewalld {
> chain filter_INPUT {
[...]
> reject with icmpx admin-prohibited   <--- catch-all reject
> }

which seems equivalent to ufw's qualified "policy drop".

Panic over.
G

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

On Sat  9 Jul 2022, at 10:05, Roger Price  wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2022, Gareth Evans wrote:
>
>> Also for any good nft/netfilter overview articles etc.
>
> Have you seen "Mastering Linux Security and Hardening", 2nd Edition, Donald 
> A. 
> Tevault, chapter 4.  Suitable for those of us who read this newbie thread.
>
> Roger

Thanks Roger, that also suggests "policy drop" in its nftables examples.

I've just noticed the nftables wiki mentions an nftables users mailing list, 

https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Main_Page

which might be useful too.

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: nft newbie

[Roger Price]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022, Gareth Evans wrote:


Also for any good nft/netfilter overview articles etc.


Have you seen "Mastering Linux Security and Hardening", 2nd Edition, Donald A. 
Tevault, chapter 4.  Suitable for those of us who read this newbie thread.


Roger

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

On Sat  9 Jul 2022, at 07:17, Gareth Evans  wrote:
[...]
> If there is no drop by default, why add "policy accept" for 
> related/established as it does?  Doesn't this happen anyway?

I suppose this probably modifies behaviour for otherwise closed ports (which 
would make sense for a firewall!) but I can't find much of a high-level 
overview in documentation - man nft, wiki.

I would still be grateful for thoughts from experienced nft users if any issues 
seem to arise from the lack of qualified "policy drop" in input.  Also for any 
good nft/netfilter overview articles etc.

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: nft newbie

[Gareth Evans]

Having found ufw suited my needs I have only dabbled with firewalld / 
firewall-config / firewall-applet over the years.

Having noticed the recommendation for firewalld on the debian wiki re nftables 

https://wiki.debian.org/nftables#Use_firewalld

I installed it and had a look at the default ruleset with

$ sudo nft list ruleset

If, as I understand, nftables default policy is accept, 

"NOTE: If no policy is explicitly selected, the default policy accept will be 
used."
https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Configuring_chains

firewalld doesn't seem to "drop all input unless allowed" by default, as ufw's 
ruleset with only port 22 opened suggests it does.

If there is no drop by default, why add "policy accept" for related/established 
as it does?  Doesn't this happen anyway?

Isn't this less secure, as it seems?

The nftables wiki suggests "policy drop" for input, but the examples are rather 
restrictive.

https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Simple_ruleset_for_a_workstation

https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Simple_ruleset_for_a_server

nmap from another machine confirms only port 22 is open via firewalld (which is 
the default) but is default acceptance in other respects a security risk?

I haven't included rulesets but happy to provide if wanted.

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: nft newbie

[gene heskett]

On 7/7/22 10:13, Tom Browder wrote:

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 7:17 PM Will Mengarini  wrote:

* gene heskett  [22-07/06=We 18:50 -0400]:

[...] iptables is out of support, replaced I
guess with nft.  [...] whats the command to [...]

The nft is too complicated. UFW works great and is so easy.

-Tom

.
People said that about iptables too, but once you understood how it 
worked, you could block all
of a given outfits possible bot addresses with one /8 or /16, in one 
case a /24. If that denies
one of their legit customers too, I usually told them to fuss at their 
isp as it was not respecting
my robots.txt. Now we've a new name in bots we'll have to train. Look at 
your access logs, it'll

stick out like a sore thumb.

But now I need to create another robots.txt. The worst part of that is 
the stubborn ones will scan
for subdirs that don't have a robots.txt and will bypass the www/root so 
you need a robots.txt in

every dir. That ability I blame on apache2.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: nft newbie

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 7:17 PM Will Mengarini  wrote:
>
> * gene heskett  [22-07/06=We 18:50 -0400]:
> > [...] iptables is out of support, replaced I
> > guess with nft.  [...] whats the command to [...]

The nft is too complicated. UFW works great and is so easy.

-Tom

Re: nft newbie

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:45:00AM +0200, Erwan David wrote:
> Le 07/07/2022 à 10:11, Roger Price a écrit :
> > Newbie 3: The configuration file begins with the Bash shebang
> > #!/usr/sbin/nft -f but the Debian 11 man page for nftables says
> > 
> >    -f, --file filename Read input from filename. If filename is -, read
> > from stdin.
> > 
> > and doesn't mention omitting the filename.  I'm guessing that -f with no
> > file name means "read from the remainder of this file".  Is this
> > correct?
> 
> It's very old for me (I began unix in 1990)  but in my understanding when a
> file begins wth a shebang the line after the shebang is completed with the
> path to the file and the full line is then executed, thus You'll end with a
> command line of /usr/sbin/nft -f /etc/nftables.conf

That's correct.  That's how shebangs work.

If you take a typical shell script, which begins with #!/bin/sh, and
you execute that, you'll end up with the kernel running a command such
as

  /bin/sh ./myscript

for you.  Likewise, a perl script will end up executing something like

  /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/perlscript

and so on.  You are allowed to have one (1) argument word after the
interpreter name on a shebang line.  In the case of your nft script,
that option happens to be -f.  This will also be required for awk
scripts (with a shebang of #!/usr/bin/awk -f) and so on.

Re: nft newbie

[Erwan David]

Le 07/07/2022 à 10:11, Roger Price a écrit :


I looked at the workstation example, but it doesn't even allow access 
via ssh. On my Debian 11 box I found 
/usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/workstation.nft which does show how to 
allow incoming ssh, http and https traffic.


Newbie 1: Is it normal for nftables configuration files to be 
executable?  As a newcomer, I expected something more "traditional", ie 
a file containing only key words and data values.


Yes it is. If you look at the first line you see it is a script to be 
evaluated by /usr/sbin/nft



Newbie 2: Command ls -l /etc/nftables.conf reports

    -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 228 Jan 17  2021 /etc/nftables.conf*

This looks as if anyone can read and execute this file.  I tried as a 
simple user and got the error message


    /etc/nftables.conf:3:1-14: Error: Could not process rule: Operation 
not permitted

    flush ruleset
    ^^

Is execution not permitted for non-root/non-file owner ?


nft configuration is indeed possible only for root.

Newbie 3: The configuration file begins with the Bash shebang 
#!/usr/sbin/nft -f but the Debian 11 man page for nftables says


   -f, --file filename Read input from filename. If filename is -, read 
from stdin.


and doesn't mention omitting the filename.  I'm guessing that -f with no 
file name means "read from the remainder of this file".  Is this correct?


It's very old for me (I began unix in 1990)  but in my understanding 
when a file begins wth a shebang the line after the shebang is completed 
with the path to the file and the full line is then executed, thus 
You'll end with a command line of /usr/sbin/nft -f /etc/nftables.conf

Re: nft newbie

[Roger Price]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022, Will Mengarini wrote:

* gene heskett  [22-07/06=We 18:50 -0400]:

The man page while quite voluminus is as
usual mostly bereft of useful examples.


<https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Main_Page#Examples>
has various examples.


May I continue this thread by asking more newbie questions?

I looked at the workstation example, but it doesn't even allow access via ssh. 
On my Debian 11 box I found /usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/workstation.nft 
which does show how to allow incoming ssh, http and https traffic.


Newbie 1: Is it normal for nftables configuration files to be executable?  As a 
newcomer, I expected something more "traditional", ie a file containing only key 
words and data values.


Newbie 2: Command ls -l /etc/nftables.conf reports

   -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 228 Jan 17  2021 /etc/nftables.conf*

This looks as if anyone can read and execute this file.  I tried as a simple 
user and got the error message


   /etc/nftables.conf:3:1-14: Error: Could not process rule: Operation not 
permitted
   flush ruleset
   ^^

Is execution not permitted for non-root/non-file owner ?

Newbie 3: The configuration file begins with the Bash shebang #!/usr/sbin/nft -f 
but the Debian 11 man page for nftables says


  -f, --file filename Read input from filename. If filename is -, read from 
stdin.

and doesn't mention omitting the filename.  I'm guessing that -f with no file 
name means "read from the remainder of this file".  Is this correct?


My apologies for asking such trivial stuff.
Roger


<https://manpages.debian.org/testing/nftables/nft.8.en.html> is an
HTML version of the man page, which is easier to navigate, at least.

<https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Accepting_and_dropping_packets> 
may also be helpful.

Re: nft newbie

[gene heskett]

On 7/6/22 20:20, Will Mengarini wrote:

* gene heskett  [22-07/06=We 18:50 -0400]:

[...] iptables is out of support, replaced I
guess with nft.  [...] whats the command to [...]

The man page while quite voluminus is as
usual mostly bereft of useful examples.


has various examples.

 is an
HTML version of the man page, which is easier to navigate, at least.


 may also be helpful.

.

All bookmarked, thank you very much, Will.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: nft newbie

[Will Mengarini]

* gene heskett  [22-07/06=We 18:50 -0400]:
> [...] iptables is out of support, replaced I
> guess with nft.  [...] whats the command to [...]
>
> The man page while quite voluminus is as
> usual mostly bereft of useful examples.


has various examples.

 is an
HTML version of the man page, which is easier to navigate, at least.


 may also be helpful.

Re: nft newbie

[Christian Britz]

Am 07.07.22 um 00:50 schrieb gene heskett:

> I was just locked up by what may have been a ransomware attack by a link 
> from pocket,
> part of firefox's default screen. I did a power down, and had quite a 

I doubt that. This would be such a security desaster for FireFox that it
would have been published on all major news sites by now.

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

nft newbie

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

I was just locked up by what may have been a ransomware attack by a link 
from pocket,
part of firefox's default screen. I did a power down, and had quite a 
few msg's during

the reboot about orphaned inodes but everything seems to be working ok.
I ran iptables for quite some years mostly to lock the bots out since 
some don't pay

any attention to robots.txt.

But iptables is out of support, replaced I guess with nft.
Its installed but not running ack htop,

So #1 whats the command to fire it up including at boot time?

#2, whats the command to add a drop rule when I find a bots address in 
the logs?
The man page while quite voluminus is as usual mostly bereft of useful 
examples.


Thank you nftables experts.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:31:02PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon.
> Thank You
> 
> We dont use WIFI.
> 
> Desktops
> 
> We do
> connect with cable to the WWW.
> Also mouse and keyboard is with cable.
> 

OK: in many ways that makes it easier. I would still suggest the firmware
disk - if only because that also may include manufacturer's security fixes
for the code that runs deep within the main processor in your machine, for
example.

As Greg says, you can find exactly which firmware you need by runnng the 
command he gave.

If you are happy to rebuild the computer you have with new software -
wiping out the previous attempts to upgrade Debian in place - then:

* Prepare a USB stick / CD with the .iso file.

* Go into the menu which supports boot from different media
[This is sometimes accessed by holding down F1 or F2 or F12 or the Delete key]

* Boot from the install medium and follow the prompts. If you have another
computer available, I would suggest that you also have the release notes
for Bullseye open at the same time -
 https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/

I would suggest the graphical mode install, perhaps.

You said in one of the earliest messages that you have previously been
using Debian LXDE desktop. The first choice for Debian desktop is GNOME
which may use more memory / more resources.

If you wish to use LXDE as your install, when it gets to the screen for
selecting software - deselect GNOME and select LXDE instead. The selections
can be changed by selecting them then hitting the spacebar, I think

Hope this helps.

> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
All the best, as ever,
 
 Andy Cater
> 

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Celejar]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:32:23 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

...

> Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
> network interface) rather than in your CPU.
> 
> Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
> their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
> network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.
> 
> If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
> are newer, you probably need some.

Just FTR, some rather old wired ethernet adaptors, such as the Broadcom
NetXtreme II (BCM5716) in my Dell R210 II, also require non-free
firmware to function:

https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-bnx2

-- 
Celejar

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:41:07PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> What does mean
> 
> firmware is free
> firmware is not free?

Firmware can be free OR non-free.

Firmware for wireless interfaces is ALMOST ALWAYS non-free, because of
proprietary secrets that the wireless chip manufacturer is forced to
keep.  The government does not want end users to be able to violate the
frequency restrictions, so they force the manufacturers to keep the
technical details hidden from the users.

Firmware for video chipsets is typically non-free because of trade secrets
that the manufacturers are trying to keep hidden from their competition.

For the love of glob, just FIND OUT WHETHER YOU ARE MISSING ANY FIRMWARE
by running this command:

sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware

If you are missing some, then GO GET IT!

SHEESH.

AW: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon.
Thank You

We dont use WIFI.

Desktops

We do
connect with cable to the WWW.
Also mouse and keyboard is with cable.

Regards
Sophie



Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 18:26
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 07:18:48PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24:29 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Sophie,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank You.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and 
> > > > > > burn on
> > > > > > CD?
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > > >
> > > > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > > >
> > > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > >
> > > > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The 
> > > > firmware
> > > > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > > > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> > >
> > > I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> > > connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> > > d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> > > bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> > > installation does d-i become aware of them?
> > >
> >
> > Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
> > added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages 
> > firmware-linux-nonfree
> > and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion 
> > elsewhere
> > on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to
> > do without all firmware.
>
> The need for a non-free WiFi firmware is recognised and the user is
> given the choice to install it or not. I have never come across d-i
> offering to install other non-free packages, which is what one would
> expect. Are you sure they are even considered?
>

I'm fairly sure that microcode may get installed. As I say, I get round
the problem by installing the two metapackages which pull in everything
needed.

> The "discussion elsewhere" seems to be specifically about firmware
> and looks to be going somewhere. About time!
>
>

As someone who also works with the images team: I have the highest regard
for the opinions of Steve McIntyre and Andy Simpkins with whom I work
whenever we do release testing.

All the best, as ever,

Andy Cater

AW: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon
Thank You.

We did the check.

64 is possible.

Its a single desktop
without connectiions to other PCs.

Regards
Sophie



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 11:18
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 12:58:48 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Best version, if you do not want to have administration work, would be
Debian-11 (which is bullseye). You should choose "stable", which is well
tested and does not have much changes in the future.

Of course you will chose the correct version for your hardware. I suppose (if
the computer is not too old), will be amd64, which is 64-Bit. Make sure, you
get the correct one.

Good luck!

Best

Hans



> 
>
>
> Good afternoon.
>
> Thank You.
>
> We do backup every evening.
>
> What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> CD?
>
> We want to repair Debian
> for learning-studying Linux.
>
> Thank You
>
> Sophie
>
>
>

AW: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon

Thank You.

What does mean

firmware is free
firmware is not free?


Regards
Sophie



Von: Greg Wooledge 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. April 2022 13:32
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:27:39PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> What is firmware?
> Do I need it?
> Is it dangerous?

Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
network interface) rather than in your CPU.

Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.

If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
are newer, you probably need some.

You can check by using

  sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware

(or any equivalent way of running dmesg as root).

As for whether it's dangerous... it's kind of a pointless question.  Either
you trust the manufacturer of the device, who is also the author of the
firmware, or you do not.

AW: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon

Thank You

64 bit is possible.

What do we do

BURN DVDs with pics
GIMP
LEAFPAD

Claws
Firefox

Single Desktop.

Regards
Sophie

Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 16:59
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

Hello Sophie,
>
>
> > 
> >
> >
> > Good afternoon.
> >
> > Thank You.
> >
> > We do backup every evening.
> >
> > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > CD?
> >

We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(

Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso

This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.

The disk listed above is a network install disk: it is small to download
but uses network bandwidth to pull down the rest of the Debian packages
required.

If you can _only_ boot from CD, then you need a program capable of
burning a .iso to a disk.

If you have a machine running Windows, you can use a program called
Rufus very effectively to write the .iso image to a USB stick.
See also: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstall

See also the installation guide at 
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html.

I hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater.


> > We want to repair Debian
> > for learning-studying Linux.
> >
> > Thank You
> >
> > Sophie
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:27:39PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> What is firmware?
> Do I need it?
> Is it dangerous?

Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
network interface) rather than in your CPU.

Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.

If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
are newer, you probably need some.

You can check by using

  sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware

(or any equivalent way of running dmesg as root).

As for whether it's dangerous... it's kind of a pointless question.  Either
you trust the manufacturer of the device, who is also the author of the
firmware, or you do not.

AW: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon
Thank You.

What is firmware?
Do I need it?
Is it dangerous?

Regards
Sophie



Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 17:24
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
> > Hello Sophie,
> > >
> > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Good afternoon.
> > > >
> > > > Thank You.
> > > >
> > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > >
> > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn 
> > > > on
> > > > CD?
> > > >
> >
> > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> >
> > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> >
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> >
> > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
>
> I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> installation does d-i become aware of them?
>

Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to
do without all firmware.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

> --
> Brian.
>

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 07:18:48PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24:29 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hello Sophie,
> > > > >  
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thank You.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and 
> > > > > > burn on
> > > > > > CD?
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > > > 
> > > > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > > > 
> > > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > > 
> > > > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The 
> > > > firmware
> > > > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > > > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> > > 
> > > I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> > > connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> > > d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> > > bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> > > installation does d-i become aware of them?
> > > 
> > 
> > Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
> > added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages 
> > firmware-linux-nonfree
> > and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion 
> > elsewhere
> > on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
> > do without all firmware.
> 
> The need for a non-free WiFi firmware is recognised and the user is
> given the choice to install it or not. I have never come across d-i
> offering to install other non-free packages, which is what one would
> expect. Are you sure they are even considered?
> 

I'm fairly sure that microcode may get installed. As I say, I get round
the problem by installing the two metapackages which pull in everything
needed.

> The "discussion elsewhere" seems to be specifically about firmware
> and looks to be going somewhere. About time!
> 
>

As someone who also works with the images team: I have the highest regard
for the opinions of Steve McIntyre and Andy Simpkins with whom I work
whenever we do release testing.

All the best, as ever,

Andy Cater 

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Brian]

On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24:29 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello Sophie,
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thank You.
> > > > > 
> > > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and 
> > > > > burn on
> > > > > CD?
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > > 
> > > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > > 
> > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > 
> > > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The 
> > > firmware
> > > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> > 
> > I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> > connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> > d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> > bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> > installation does d-i become aware of them?
> > 
> 
> Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
> added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
> and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
> on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
> do without all firmware.

The need for a non-free WiFi firmware is recognised and the user is
given the choice to install it or not. I have never come across d-i
offering to install other non-free packages, which is what one would
expect. Are you sure they are even considered?

The "discussion elsewhere" seems to be specifically about firmware
and looks to be going somewhere. About time!

-- 
Brian.

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> > Hello Sophie,
> > >  
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > 
> > > > Thank You.
> > > > 
> > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > 
> > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn 
> > > > on
> > > > CD?
> > > > 
> > 
> > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > 
> > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > 
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > 
> > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> 
> I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> installation does d-i become aware of them?
> 

Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
do without all firmware.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

> --
> Brian.
> 

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Brian]

On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> Hello Sophie,
> >  
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good afternoon.
> > > 
> > > Thank You.
> > > 
> > > We do backup every evening.
> > > 
> > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > > CD?
> > > 
> 
> We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> 
> Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> 
> This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.

I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
installation does d-i become aware of them?

--
Brian.

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Hello Sophie,
>  
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Good afternoon.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> > We do backup every evening.
> > 
> > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > CD?
> > 

We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(

Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso

This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.

The disk listed above is a network install disk: it is small to download
but uses network bandwidth to pull down the rest of the Debian packages
required.

If you can _only_ boot from CD, then you need a program capable of 
burning a .iso to a disk.

If you have a machine running Windows, you can use a program called
Rufus very effectively to write the .iso image to a USB stick.
See also: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstall

See also the installation guide at 
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html.

I hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater.


> > We want to repair Debian
> > for learning-studying Linux.
> > 
> > Thank You
> > 
> > Sophie
> > 
> > 
> > 
>

 

Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Hans]

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 12:58:48 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Best version, if you do not want to have administration work, would be 
Debian-11 (which is bullseye). You should choose "stable", which is well 
tested and does not have much changes in the future.

Of course you will chose the correct version for your hardware. I suppose (if 
the computer is not too old), will be amd64, which is 64-Bit. Make sure, you 
get the correct one.

Good luck!

Best

Hans

 

> 
> 
> 
> Good afternoon.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> We do backup every evening.
> 
> What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> CD?
> 
> We want to repair Debian
> for learning-studying Linux.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 

Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Sophie / Schwibinger Michael  wrote:
> Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?

All readable files can be burnt on CD and then read by Ubuntu and MS-Windows.
It does not matter in which kind of filesystem they are stored, as long as
it is mounted, permits read access to the file, and the file is not too
large for the CD.

The ways to burn the CD differ from operating system to operating system.
As said, the burning operating system will have to be able to mount ext3.
So with MS-Windows it might become demanding to put that file onto a CD.


Hans quoted:
> Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.274262] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI 
> removable disk

This looks like a USB stick or a USB attached hard disk.
(An optical drive would appear as [srN] with some number N.)


> ... sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK 
> driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
> ... sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : Not Ready [current]
> ... sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: Medium not present

The device says that it has no storage medium.
If it is not a drive with removable medium, then it is damaged internally.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon.

Thank You.

We do backup every evening.

What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on CD?

We want to repair Debian
for learning-studying Linux.

Thank You

Sophie



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:55
An: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE 
cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 11:35:38 CEST schrieben Sie:
If you have no important data, a fresh installation will do the best.

Do NOT install from a live-dvd, download the installer cd for your hardware
from the debian site.

There is a good installation manual available in different languages.

It should be pretty easy, when you read the manual carefully.
Additional, this is also a good learning effect.

Good luck!

Hans


> Good morning
>
> Thank You
>
>
> Is the best solution
> to destroy the system
> download LIVE CD Debian 11 64
> LXDE
> and install with ext3?
>
> Regards
> Sophie
>
> Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?
> Good morning
>
> Thank You
>
>
> Is the best solution
> to destroy the system
> download LIVE CD Debian 11 64
> LXDE
> and install with ext3?
>
> Regards
> Sophie
>
> Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?
>
>
> Von: Hans 
> Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE
> cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?
>
> Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> Hi Sophie,
>
> I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
> and linux at all.
>
> Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
> Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
> offers such as a commercial service.
>
> We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
> loose.
>
> Sorry for that!
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Von: Hans 
> Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE
> cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?
>
> Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> Hi Sophie,
>
> I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
> and linux at all.
>
> Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
> Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
> offers such as a commercial service.
>
> We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
> loose.
>
> Sorry for that!
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans

AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning

Thank You


Is the best solution
to destroy the system
download LIVE CD Debian 11 64
LXDE
and install with ext3?

Regards
Sophie

Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?
Good morning

Thank You


Is the best solution
to destroy the system
download LIVE CD Debian 11 64
LXDE
and install with ext3?

Regards
Sophie

Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?


Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot 
boot.. Is it destroyed?

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
and linux at all.

Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
offers such as a commercial service.

We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
loose.

Sorry for that!

Best regards

Hans












Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot 
boot.. Is it destroyed?

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
and linux at all.

Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
offers such as a commercial service.

We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
loose.

Sorry for that!

Best regards

Hans

AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning

Thank You


Is the best solution
to destroy the system
download LIVE CD Debian 11 64
LXDE
and install with ext3?

Regards
Sophie

Can ext3 files burned on CD and transported to Ubuntu and WIN PCs?



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot 
boot.. Is it destroyed?

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
and linux at all.

Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
offers such as a commercial service.

We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
loose.

Sorry for that!

Best regards

Hans

AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?

[Schwibinger Michael]

Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 09:28
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot 
boot.. Is it destroyed?

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian
and linux at all.

Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who
offers such as a commercial service.

We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will
loose.

Sorry for that!

Best regards

Hans

Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?

[Hans]

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 10:25:41 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

I have the feeling, there is some knowledge basics missing releted to debian 
and linux at all.

Thus it is very, very difficult, to help you, if even maybe possible at all.
Maybe you should spend some money and pay someone to fix your system, who 
offers such as a commercial service.

We can try on, but I think, only looking from the far, at the end we will 
loose.

Sorry for that!

Best regards

Hans
 

AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning
Thank You.

"> When upgrading fromn Debian-10 to-11, pay attention, that the sources.list
> have been changed in Debian-11! Please check the manual!"

We did it.

As Hans wrote
Is the system to much destroyed?

Regards
Sophie




Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. April 2022 20:56
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 04:53:44PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
>
> Thank You.
>
> Yes
> There is Kernel panic.
>
> So I do boot again in recovery.
>
>
> I ll send these 4 Files.
> I ll open them with leafpad.
>
> All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
> syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.
>
> How cam  I control the packages?
>
> I think we do user Debian stable.
>
> 32 bit.
>
>
> Because 9 to 10
> had this problem,
> we did update 10 to 11.
> Same problem.
>
> What did we do?
>
> Edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list using a text editor and replace each 
> instance of stretch with buster.
> Update the packages index on Debian Linux, run:
> sudo apt update
> Prepare for the operating system upgrade, run:
> sudo apt upgrade
> Finally, update Debian 9 to Debian 10 buster by running:
> sudo apt full-upgrade
>
> Regards
> Sophie
>
> Thank You
>

Hello Sophie,

Ah, OK. The machine you have - what computer is it?

How much memory?

There are a few steps:

First of all, if you can access the mahine through recovery:

Can you show us _exactly_ what is in your /etc/apt/sources.list now.

Can you run

uname -a

And show us what kernel is running, please?

Can you run

cat /etc/debian_version

and show us what version is displayed, please.

---

>From  8 to 9

You changed /etc/apt/sources.list

Ran apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade

Did you reboot and check to see that the machine came up with the new version?

---

>From 9 to 10

Did you do the same?

---

At what point did it stop booting:

do you see any message on the screen?

do you have a blank screen?

does the keyboard work?

---

If you can split down to the simplest steps and tell me as if I am 3 years
old, it will help :)

With every good wish,

Andy Cater

>
> 
> Von: Hans 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. April 2022 12:03
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot
>
> Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 09:47:59 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> Hi Sophie,
>
> maybe you could specify, what is crashing.
>
> Is it the kernel itself (kernel panic) ?
>
> Or does X not start and you are finished with the prompt?
>
> If X is not starting, then you get a problem with the graphics driver. If so,
> we need to know, what hardware you are using (the command lspci should show
> you).
>
>
> If the kernel itself is crashing, then we need to know, which kernel it is
> installalled.
>
> All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
> syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.
>
> If some other thing is crashing during boot, make sure, all packages, which
> are new, are correctly configured and all dependencies are met.
>
> I suppose, you are using debian/stable. Do not interfere with testing or
> unstable!
>
> Besides: The actual debian version is Debian-11, I suppose, when Debian-10 is
> running you will upgrade to Debian-11.
>
> When upgrading fromn Debian-10 to-11, pay attention, that the sources.list
> have been changed in Debian-11! Please check the manual!
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Good morning
> >
> > What did we do:
> > Update Debian 9 to 10,
> > boot: Crash.
> >
> > What did we do wrong.
> > Where does Linux create a logfile to send it to You find the bug.
> >
> > What we can do:
> > We do boot with the recovery mode.
> >
> > Regards
> > Sophie
>
>
>
>

AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning.
Thank You.

I did understand

a lot of the system is destroyed.

Is hardware destroyed?
Is software destroyed?

Can Debian repair it?
Can Knoppix repair it?


Its a Desktop PC.
Made for WIN.

But we did only install Debian.
Before we used avidemux
but to often the update crashed.


Regards
Sophie






Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2022 07:07
An: Debian-user List Debian 
Cc: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot 
boot


Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 18:53:44 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:

Hello,


first of all, I believe, your hardddrive is corrupt. You should do a filesystem 
check, maybe withj a livefile system like Knoppix or similar.


>From the log:




Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.269895]  sdb: sdb1

Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.274262] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI 
removable disk

Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.718406] FAT-fs (sdb1): Volume was not 
properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck.

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467209] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467221] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready [current]

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467228] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not present

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467240] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 CDB: Read(10) 
28 00 00 00 04 20 00 00 08 00

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467243] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev 
sdb, sector 1056

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507341] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507352] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready [current]

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507364] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not present

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507368] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 CDB: Read(10) 
28 00 00 00 04 20 00 00 08 00

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507371] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev 
sdb, sector 1056

Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507374] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb1, logical 
block 128, async page read

Apr 24 17:04:29 ah kernel: [40743.517610] usb 4-4: USB disconnect, device 
number 4



and this:

Apr 24 21:57:43 ah kernel: [58337.363585] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI 
removable disk

Apr 24 21:57:43 ah kernel: [58337.638502] FAT-fs (sdb1): Volume was not 
properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck.

Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435420] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435432] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready [current]

Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435439] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not present





Secondary, I believe, youre hardware is a netbook. Your harddrive is only 64GB 
and this line (but here I am really not sure):


Apr 24 19:26:13 ah kernel: [49247.171760] [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] 
*ERROR* Atomic update failure on pipe A (start=2954506 end=2954507) time 180 
us, min 1017, max 1023, scanline start 1014, end 1026


Atomic sounds like Intel Atomic CPU.




Further investigation shows, you have an Intel hardware, and your graphics card 
is an I915 chip by Intel. This is supported by the kernel itself, but as far as 
I remember, you need the package "xserver-xorg-intel".





However, the main reason, why it may crash, might be the corrupted harddrive. 
This would be the first point, I would fix.


Download some livelinux image like Knoppix, TRK, GRML, R.I.P. or Debian Live, 
whatever, create a bootable device and boot from it.


Then you can filescheck your harddrive.




Another thing, I wondered: Do you have two harddrives in your computer? The log 
shows sdb, but the first drive should be sda.


Also it shows, that the filesystem is FAT, but should be ext2, ext3 or ext4.


Please recheck.




Can not say any more at the moment, maybe it helps either.


Good luck!


Hans

Re: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Hans]

Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 18:53:44 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hello,

first of all, I believe, your hardddrive is corrupt. You should do a filesystem 
check, maybe withj a 
livefile system like Knoppix or similar.

>From the log:



Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.269895]  sdb: sdb1
Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.274262] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI 
removable disk
Apr 24 17:02:52 ah kernel: [40646.718406] FAT-fs (sdb1): Volume was not 
properly unmounted. 
Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck.
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467209] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: 
hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467221] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready 
[current]
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467228] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not 
present
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467240] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 CDB: Read(10) 
28 00 00 00 
04 20 00 00 08 00
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.467243] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev 
sdb, sector 1056
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507341] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: 
hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507352] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready 
[current]
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507364] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not 
present
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507368] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 CDB: Read(10) 
28 00 00 00 
04 20 00 00 08 00
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507371] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev 
sdb, sector 1056
Apr 24 17:04:14 ah kernel: [40728.507374] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb1, logical 
block 128, 
async page read
Apr 24 17:04:29 ah kernel: [40743.517610] usb 4-4: USB disconnect, device 
number 4


and this:
Apr 24 21:57:43 ah kernel: [58337.363585] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI 
removable disk
Apr 24 21:57:43 ah kernel: [58337.638502] FAT-fs (sdb1):* Volume was not 
properly unmounted. 
Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck.*
Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435420] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 FAILED 
Result: 
hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435432] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Sense Key : 
Not Ready 
[current]
Apr 24 22:02:24 ah kernel: [58618.435439] sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: 
Medium not 
present




Secondary, I believe, youre hardware is a netbook. Your harddrive is only 64GB 
and this line (but 
here I am really not sure):

Apr 24 19:26:13 ah kernel: [49247.171760] [drm:intel_pipe_update_end [i915]] 
*ERROR* Atomic 
update failure on pipe A (start=2954506 end=2954507) time 180 us, min 1017, max 
1023, 
scanline start 1014, end 1026

Atomic sounds like Intel Atomic CPU.



Further investigation shows, you have an Intel hardware, and your graphics card 
is an I915 chip 
by Intel. This is supported by the kernel itself, but as far as I remember, you 
need the package 
"xserver-xorg-intel".




However, the main reason, why it may crash, might be the corrupted harddrive. 
This would be 
the first point, I would fix.

Download some livelinux image like Knoppix, TRK, GRML, R.I.P. or Debian Live, 
whatever, create 
a bootable device and boot from it.

Then you can filescheck your harddrive.



Another thing, I wondered: Do you have two harddrives in your computer? The log 
shows sdb, 
but the first drive should be sda. 

Also it shows, that the filesystem is FAT, but should be ext2, ext3 or ext4.

Please recheck.



Can not say any more at the moment, maybe it helps either.

Good luck!

Hans

 

Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 04:53:44PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Yes
> There is Kernel panic.
> 
> So I do boot again in recovery.
> 
> 
> I ll send these 4 Files.
> I ll open them with leafpad.
> 
> All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
> syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.
> 
> How cam  I control the packages?
> 
> I think we do user Debian stable.
> 
> 32 bit.
> 
> 
> Because 9 to 10
> had this problem,
> we did update 10 to 11.
> Same problem.
> 
> What did we do?
> 
> Edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list using a text editor and replace each 
> instance of stretch with buster.
> Update the packages index on Debian Linux, run:
> sudo apt update
> Prepare for the operating system upgrade, run:
> sudo apt upgrade
> Finally, update Debian 9 to Debian 10 buster by running:
> sudo apt full-upgrade
> 
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> Thank You
> 

Hello Sophie,

Ah, OK. The machine you have - what computer is it?

How much memory?

There are a few steps:

First of all, if you can access the mahine through recovery:

Can you show us _exactly_ what is in your /etc/apt/sources.list now.

Can you run

uname -a

And show us what kernel is running, please?

Can you run

cat /etc/debian_version

and show us what version is displayed, please.

---

>From  8 to 9

You changed /etc/apt/sources.list

Ran apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade

Did you reboot and check to see that the machine came up with the new version?

---

>From 9 to 10

Did you do the same?

--- 

At what point did it stop booting: 

do you see any message on the screen?

do you have a blank screen?

does the keyboard work?

---

If you can split down to the simplest steps and tell me as if I am 3 years
old, it will help :)

With every good wish,

Andy Cater

> 
> ____
> Von: Hans 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. April 2022 12:03
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot
> 
> Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 09:47:59 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> maybe you could specify, what is crashing.
> 
> Is it the kernel itself (kernel panic) ?
> 
> Or does X not start and you are finished with the prompt?
> 
> If X is not starting, then you get a problem with the graphics driver. If so,
> we need to know, what hardware you are using (the command lspci should show
> you).
> 
> 
> If the kernel itself is crashing, then we need to know, which kernel it is
> installalled.
> 
> All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
> syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.
> 
> If some other thing is crashing during boot, make sure, all packages, which
> are new, are correctly configured and all dependencies are met.
> 
> I suppose, you are using debian/stable. Do not interfere with testing or
> unstable!
> 
> Besides: The actual debian version is Debian-11, I suppose, when Debian-10 is
> running you will upgrade to Debian-11.
> 
> When upgrading fromn Debian-10 to-11, pay attention, that the sources.list
> have been changed in Debian-11! Please check the manual!
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Good morning
> >
> > What did we do:
> > Update Debian 9 to 10,
> > boot: Crash.
> >
> > What did we do wrong.
> > Where does Linux create a logfile to send it to You find the bug.
> >
> > What we can do:
> > We do boot with the recovery mode.
> >
> > Regards
> > Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> 

AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good afternoon

Thank You.

Yes
There is Kernel panic.

So I do boot again in recovery.


I ll send these 4 Files.
I ll open them with leafpad.

All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.

How cam  I control the packages?

I think we do user Debian stable.

32 bit.


Because 9 to 10
had this problem,
we did update 10 to 11.
Same problem.

What did we do?

Edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list using a text editor and replace each 
instance of stretch with buster.
Update the packages index on Debian Linux, run:
sudo apt update
Prepare for the operating system upgrade, run:
sudo apt upgrade
Finally, update Debian 9 to Debian 10 buster by running:
sudo apt full-upgrade

Regards
Sophie

Thank You



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. April 2022 12:03
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 09:47:59 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

maybe you could specify, what is crashing.

Is it the kernel itself (kernel panic) ?

Or does X not start and you are finished with the prompt?

If X is not starting, then you get a problem with the graphics driver. If so,
we need to know, what hardware you are using (the command lspci should show
you).


If the kernel itself is crashing, then we need to know, which kernel it is
installalled.

All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log,
syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.

If some other thing is crashing during boot, make sure, all packages, which
are new, are correctly configured and all dependencies are met.

I suppose, you are using debian/stable. Do not interfere with testing or
unstable!

Besides: The actual debian version is Debian-11, I suppose, when Debian-10 is
running you will upgrade to Debian-11.

When upgrading fromn Debian-10 to-11, pay attention, that the sources.list
have been changed in Debian-11! Please check the manual!

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans









> Good morning
>
> What did we do:
> Update Debian 9 to 10,
> boot: Crash.
>
> What did we do wrong.
> Where does Linux create a logfile to send it to You find the bug.
>
> What we can do:
> We do boot with the recovery mode.
>
> Regards
> Sophie

Re: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Hans]

Am Sonntag, 24. April 2022, 09:47:59 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Hi Sophie,

maybe you could specify, what is crashing.

Is it the kernel itself (kernel panic) ?

Or does X not start and you are finished with the prompt?

If X is not starting, then you get a problem with the graphics driver. If so, 
we need to know, what hardware you are using (the command lspci should show 
you).


If the kernel itself is crashing, then we need to know, which kernel it is 
installalled.

All logfiles are below /var/log/ , most interesting files are kern.log, 
syslog, Xorg.0.log and maybe also daemon.log.

If some other thing is crashing during boot, make sure, all packages, which 
are new, are correctly configured and all dependencies are met.

I suppose, you are using debian/stable. Do not interfere with testing or 
unstable! 

Besides: The actual debian version is Debian-11, I suppose, when Debian-10 is 
running you will upgrade to Debian-11.

When upgrading fromn Debian-10 to-11, pay attention, that the sources.list 
have been changed in Debian-11! Please check the manual!

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans



 





> Good morning
> 
> What did we do:
> Update Debian 9 to 10,
> boot: Crash.
> 
> What did we do wrong.
> Where does Linux create a logfile to send it to You find the bug.
> 
> What we can do:
> We do boot with the recovery mode.
> 
> Regards
> Sophie

Here Newbie---Amateur in Linus...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot

[Schwibinger Michael]

Good morning

What did we do:
Update Debian 9 to 10,
boot: Crash.

What did we do wrong.
Where does Linux create a logfile to send it to You find the bug.

What we can do:
We do boot with the recovery mode.

Regards
Sophie

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 12:30:37AM +1300, Richard Hector wrote:
> On 18/10/21 2:55 am, john doe wrote:
> > With W10 you have also the possibility of using 'WLS' an order
> > alternative would be to install Debian as a VM.
> 
> I think perhaps you mean WSL - Windows Subsystem for Linux?
> 
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install
> 
> I've never used it myself.
> 
> Richard
> 

WSL2 - effectively a layer that sits on Hyper-V shim and can talk to 
Windows subsystems. Allows you to run Debian as a VM, effectively.

Debian WSL2 bundle is maintained by a Debian developer.

Andy C.

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Richard Hector]

On 18/10/21 2:55 am, john doe wrote:

With W10 you have also the possibility of using 'WLS' an order
alternative would be to install Debian as a VM.


I think perhaps you mean WSL - Windows Subsystem for Linux?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install

I've never used it myself.

Richard

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:00:52 -0400
JAMES BOSWELL  wrote:

> if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be
> able to effectively run debian on this laptop?

The best way to find that out is to get a Live version of Debian, and
see if boots and runs without problems.

> Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
> Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
> Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
> Device ID CAACC244-37B7-4294-84E4-E73B9C030FDF
> Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
> System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
> Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display
> 
> Edition Windows 10 Home
> Version 21H1
> Installed on ‎4/‎2/‎2021
> OS build 19043.1288
> Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3920.0
> 
> i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
> would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's

Since your knowledge of Linux admittedly is severely lacking, I would
recommend thoroughly researching Linux, in general, and Debian, in
particularly, BEFORE attempting any install. And the first attempt be
on a system you don't mind trashing.

And always keep in mind: Linux is NOT Windows.  So never assume that
the way you did it on Windows will work on Linux.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

B

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[David Christensen]

On 10/17/21 6:00 AM, JAMES BOSWELL wrote:

if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be able to
effectively run debian on this laptop?

Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
Device ID CAACC244-37B7-4294-84E4-E73B9C030FDF
Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display

Edition Windows 10 Home
Version 21H1
Installed on ‎4/‎2/‎2021
OS build 19043.1288
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3920.0

i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's



You processor has hardware support for virtualization:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196451/intel-core-i310110u-processor-4m-cache-up-to-4-10-ghz.html

Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) ‡ Yes
Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d) ‡ Yes
Intel® VT-x with Extended Page Tables (EPT) ‡ Yes


I recommend that you install Oracle VirtualBox, create a virtual machine 
(VM), and install Debian GNU/Linux into the VM:


https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads


David

[Off topic] Linux lynxes. was: Re: question from total newbie.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I've been installing debian since sarge and remember
> no lynx code word attached to any debian version.

There was an Ubuntu release named Lucid Lynx, 11 years ago.
(My bet is that it won't run on a contemporary laptop.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Jude DaShiell]

I think the o.p. may have got debian linux confused with debian lynx that
makes more sense over here.  Many Linux distros have code words for each
major version of their distributions.  The current stable code word for
debian is bullseye.  I've been installing debian since sarge and remember
no lynx code word attached to any debian version.


On Sun, 17 Oct 2021, Dan Ritter wrote:

> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > JAMES BOSWELL wrote:
> > > > install debian lynx
> >
> > Dan Ritter
> > > Lynx is a text-mode web browser. Did you mean Debian bullseye,
> >
> > I rather guess that "Debian GNU/Lynx, The Unyversl operating system"
> > is meant. ;-)
> >
>
> Ah, you think it's a spieling error. Reasonable.
>
> -dsr-
>
>

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Dan Ritter]

Thomas Schmitt wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> JAMES BOSWELL wrote:
> > > install debian lynx
> 
> Dan Ritter
> > Lynx is a text-mode web browser. Did you mean Debian bullseye,
> 
> I rather guess that "Debian GNU/Lynx, The Unyversl operating system"
> is meant. ;-)
> 

Ah, you think it's a spieling error. Reasonable.

-dsr-

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[David Wright]

On Sun 17 Oct 2021 at 09:00:52 (-0400), JAMES BOSWELL wrote:
> if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be able to
> effectively run debian on this laptop?

How big is the hard drive, and how much space is currently occupied?

Cheers,
David.

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

JAMES BOSWELL wrote:
> > install debian lynx

Dan Ritter
> Lynx is a text-mode web browser. Did you mean Debian bullseye,

I rather guess that "Debian GNU/Lynx, The Unyversl operating system"
is meant. ;-)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Dan Ritter]

JAMES BOSWELL wrote: 
> if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be able to
> effectively run debian on this laptop?
> 
> Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
> Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
> Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
> Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
> System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Lynx is a text-mode web browser. Did you mean Debian bullseye,
which is the current stable version?

Bullseye should not have a problem with this laptop. If you need
to install via wifi rather than wired ethernet, you should start
with the non-free firmware installer:

https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/

-dsr-

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[john doe]

On 10/17/2021 3:00 PM, JAMES BOSWELL wrote:

if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be able to
effectively run debian on this laptop?



You are planning on creating a 'multiboot' with Debian and Windows!

The best thing that I can suggest is to Google 'multiboot Bullseye and
Windows10'.


i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's



With W10 you have also the possibility of using 'WLS' an order
alternative would be to install Debian as a VM.
If you choose to go the VM way Virtualbox and Qemu are working fine on
Windows.

I would say that 'WLS' and 'VB/Qemu' are less prone to crashing your laptop.

--
John Doe

question from total newbie. a little help please

[JAMES BOSWELL]

if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be able to
effectively run debian on this laptop?

Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
Device ID CAACC244-37B7-4294-84E4-E73B9C030FDF
Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display

Edition Windows 10 Home
Version 21H1
Installed on ‎4/‎2/‎2021
OS build 19043.1288
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3920.0

i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's

Re: Bug de newbie sur script ?

[ptilou]

Le vendredi 15 octobre 2021 à 19:20:04 UTC+2, Erwann Le Bras a écrit :
> bonsoir
> je ne comprends pas ta demande :(
> le "output_%0d.png" est je pense erroné ; ne veux-tu pas dire "output_$f.png"
> ou en enlevant le .AVI du fichier : "output_$(basename $f .AVI).png"
> cordialement
> Le 10/10/2021 à 08:29, ptilou a écrit :
> Slt,
> 
> Mon script :
> for f in *.AVI / 
> 
> do ./ffmpeg -i "$f" -r 25 output_%0d.png 
> 
> done
> 
> Et donc je voudrais au lieu de output avoir le résultat de $f et donc c’est 
> quoi la grammaire conjugaison ?
> 
> Le but est que chaque fichier fait repartir le fichier à 1 et donc ecrase le 
> précédent, mais pour une bonne gestion en posant ma question je pense qu’il 
> faut mettre le nom du fichier original, quelqu’un fait autrement, le but 
> après et de les faire passer dans des scripts de processing, pour l’in Je 
> n’ai que des saturations de couleurs !
> 
> Merci
> 
> — 
> Ptilou
> amitiés,
> -- 
> Erwann

En lieu et place de output, j’ai mie un “$f” et je garde, la mauvaise rédaction 
pour retrouver le film qui a servi à produire l’image.

Je me pose la question d’une nouvelle erreur, j’ai pour 14 mn de vidéo en MOV, 
font 18500 images, et donc est que il ne serait pas mieux de chercher un script 
qui extrait quand X pourcentage de l’image a changé ?

Je cherche su opencv, mais la mise en place me semble complexe, et je me 
demande si il existe pas quelque chose de plus legé (que opencv ?)

Sinon j’ai pensé mettre un cadre dans le style d’une pellicule avec 
Imagemagick, puis faire des planches contacte ?

Je cherche des idées avec dés modulation de couleurs ou de la commande 
grayscale ?

Donc ou y a t’il un forum sur opencv ?

— 
Ptilou

Re: Bug de newbie sur script ?

[Erwann Le Bras]

bonsoir

je ne comprends pas ta demande :(

le "output_%0d.png" est je pense erroné ; ne veux-tu pas dire 
"output_$f.png"


ou en enlevant le .AVI du fichier : "output_$(basename $f .AVI).png"

cordialement

Le 10/10/2021 à 08:29, ptilou a écrit :

Slt,

Mon script :
for f in *.AVI /

do ./ffmpeg -i "$f" -r 25 output_%0d.png

done

Et donc je voudrais au lieu de output avoir le résultat de $f et donc c’est 
quoi la grammaire conjugaison ?

Le but est que chaque fichier fait repartir le fichier à 1 et donc ecrase le 
précédent, mais pour une bonne gestion en posant ma question je pense qu’il 
faut mettre le nom du fichier original, quelqu’un fait autrement, le but après 
et de les faire passer dans des scripts de processing, pour l’in Je n’ai que 
des saturations de couleurs !

Merci

—
Ptilou


amitiés,

--

Erwann

Bug de newbie sur script ?

[ptilou]

Slt,

Mon script :
for f in *.AVI / 

do ./ffmpeg -i "$f" -r 25 output_%0d.png 

done

Et donc je voudrais au lieu de output avoir le résultat de $f et donc c’est 
quoi la grammaire conjugaison ?

Le but est que chaque fichier fait repartir le fichier à 1 et donc ecrase le 
précédent, mais pour une bonne gestion en posant ma question je pense qu’il 
faut mettre le nom du fichier original, quelqu’un fait autrement, le but après 
et de les faire passer dans des scripts de processing, pour l’in Je n’ai que 
des saturations de couleurs !

Merci

— 
Ptilou

Re: zfs data partition, crypt loop mounts and newbie tutorials -- was Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on separate partition

[David Christensen]

On 2020-07-09 02:28, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

Since I have to re-send this anyway, my current laptop setup for some time is
this:

  - there is one internal drive, ~750 MiB

  - Root partition, ~30 GiB, Debian default Ext4

  - (there's also a default sized EFI partition, may be ~1GiB from memory)

  - remainder, ~700 MiB is a single data partition, which is assigned to
a single-partition zpool (zfs disk pool)

  - inside the ZFS "internal" data pool, I create a number of ZFS
"filesystems", see tutorial below

  - one of these holds various crypt volumes (virtual/loop mounted FSes)

  - inside each crypt vol is another, nested, ZFS filesystem - snapshots
are just SO nice, I could not resist this...


On my laptops, I prefer to put all the free space into one partition, 
encrypt the partition, and then put something on top of the encrypted 
virtual device (usually ext4, but I tried ZFS on Linux recently). 
Everything is encrypted by default, so I do not need encfs(1), etc..




There's an earlier tute and example code (bash script) and commands for
setting up this combination, but it's a little more technical than the
tutorials below, which are designed for absolute ZFS beginners.  See
here:

https://github.com/zenaan/quick-fixes-ftfw/tree/master/zfs

(If new to ZFS, perhaps read the zfs tutorial below first though.)

If I had a second internal drive, this is how I would use it:

  - as a single, full-drive ZFS pool

  - inside would be at least a "primary user" filesystem,


I would move the large drive to the second bay, put a small, fast drive 
in the primary bay, install Debian on the primary drive, and use the 
secondary drive for data.




  - as well as a " 'primary drive data partition' backup filisystem", to
which I would make regular backups of my primary drive data partition


I use zfs-auto-snapshot on my systems with ZFS:

https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names=zfs-auto-snapshot



(in my case, my primary data backups are made to an external USB drive,
but same diff...)


I would set up the USB drive as follows -- put all the free space into 
one partition, encrypt the partition, and put the encrypted virtual 
device into a ZFS pool.



For backups, I would replicate the ZFS filesystems from the laptop pool 
to the USB drive ZFS pool.



David

zfs data partition, crypt loop mounts and newbie tutorials -- was Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on separate partition

[Zenaan Harkness]

Since I have to re-send this anyway, my current laptop setup for some time is
this:

 - there is one internal drive, ~750 MiB

 - Root partition, ~30 GiB, Debian default Ext4

 - (there's also a default sized EFI partition, may be ~1GiB from memory)

 - remainder, ~700 MiB is a single data partition, which is assigned to
   a single-partition zpool (zfs disk pool)

 - inside the ZFS "internal" data pool, I create a number of ZFS
   "filesystems", see tutorial below

 - one of these holds various crypt volumes (virtual/loop mounted FSes)

 - inside each crypt vol is another, nested, ZFS filesystem - snapshots
   are just SO nice, I could not resist this...

There's an earlier tute and example code (bash script) and commands for
setting up this combination, but it's a little more technical than the
tutorials below, which are designed for absolute ZFS beginners.  See
here:

   https://github.com/zenaan/quick-fixes-ftfw/tree/master/zfs

(If new to ZFS, perhaps read the zfs tutorial below first though.)

If I had a second internal drive, this is how I would use it:

 - as a single, full-drive ZFS pool

 - inside would be at least a "primary user" filesystem,

 - as well as a " 'primary drive data partition' backup filisystem", to
   which I would make regular backups of my primary drive data partition
   (in my case, my primary data backups are made to an external USB drive,
   but same diff...)

Good luck,



- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness  -

From: Zenaan Harkness 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:00:06 +1000
Subject: Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 10:56:26AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 08 iul 20, 10:20:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 08:35:35AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > I was under the impression that LVM is used in particular for its 
> > > flexibility in adjusting your partitions.
> > 
> > But it won't make disappear a separate /usr partition "by magic".
> > 
> > > What prevents you from merging '/' and '/usr'?
> > 
> > This thread is talking about upgrades. Do you suggest an upgrade
> > copying the contents of the /usr partition over to the / partition
> > and dropping the separate /usr (perhaps recovering the space somehow)?
>  
> Or the other way around ('/usr' could be bigger than '/'). 
> 
> > Sounds pretty risky.
> 
> Sure. On the other hand, what is the point of using LVM if one is not 
> going to use it to adjust partitions when required?


A very good question.  I have been under the impression that expanding 
partitions is what is made easy, for example by adding an extra drive and 
assigning that drive to the appropriate Logical volume,

and that shrinking volumes has always been "lower in priority" and "possibly 
do-able if you get the incantations pricisely right, but backup everything 
first as it's definitely not guaranteed."

Expanding a full existing LVM Volume, is a useful progression of the "easy and 
supported new status quo" to be sure.

But for maximum flexibility, something like ZFS is required, where pools 
(volumes), disks (and partitions), snapshots and etc, are all primary "objects" 
so to speak and are each integrated at the FS level   but even in ZFS the 
"default supported" is limited to removing and/or replacing mirror or RAID 
drives and/or partitions (adding and replacing mirrors I attest is really 
trivial to do).

Due to license incompatibility though, ZFS is not distributable as pre-built 
Linux modules, so until someone convinces Oracle to relicense it, ZFS won't be 
in default InitRamFS images.

Having used ZFS on all data partitions and drives for about a year now, this 
for me is the end game - it is beyond nice to use, it's off the charts-ski ... 
seriously: snapshots (and clones), backups, adding a mirror drive "just 
because", scrubs, and every sector checksummed.  Nothing compares except BTRFS 
which still has a ways to go on the deployment stability front.

Very recently I wrote 3 short tutorials for those who might otherwise be timid 
in dipping their dainty toes in the clear crispy waters of ZFS :)

   https://github.com/zenaan/quick-fixes-ftfw/blob/master/zfs/zfs.md

If you use ultra cheap USB controllers that consistently fall over after 
~580MiB (I have 4 which are now retired), you'll find they cannot cope with 
single-session transfers of more than around ~580MiB - I've yet to update that 
step in the backup tutorial, but a better USB Sata adapter solved the problem, 
and that particular data pool is now a humming mirror of two USB attached 
drives, my other data drive is about to get the same mirror treatment.  Knowing 
that such issues are put squarely "in your face" by ZFS is such a relief, it's 
like looking out over the plains from a mountain top.

- End forwarded message -

Re: Newbie

[Martin McCormick]

=?euc-kr?b?yLK6tMjx?=  writes:
> Hi Arun,
> 
> Yes this is question place.
> 
> Sincerely, Byung-Hee
> 
It is one of the most helpful groups I know of as
sometimes, there are questions that don't lend themselves to a
search engine string although one can get really lucky if you try
to not use words that easily can mean several things at once.

Occasionally, we dazzle ourselves with our own brilliance,
thinking our search terms should be so concise as to drill right
down through all the Ebay pitches and mercantile flotsam to see
the answer to our question on the first link to pop up only to
find we have asked a question similar to "Can birds fly?"

When my wife was getting her Master's in library science,
she related a story about a person walking in to a library and
asking that question.

It turned out that the patron was interested in whether
or not birds could be carried on an airplane and how do you do
this?

The search engines are as good as we are so if you ask
duckduckgo if birds can fly and also ask Google the same
question, you probably won't get quality answers from either
search but with one of the two, your spam level won't change.
Three guesses as to which engine changes your spam quantity.

I do amaze myself at how many searches go off the tracks
because there are many ways to interpret the same question and,
when you see what you got, one can usually also see why.  If you
like puns, you may be thinking like a search engine.

For those not familiar with English, a pun is a play on
words in which one word has many different meanings.  The punster
intends for you to notice the other meaning.

 If you have questions about debian buster or redhat or freebsd, 
it cuts through a lot of jungle if you put the operating system you are asking 
about as the first
word so that something like 

debian buster end of line character

will instantly weed out how Windows does it as an example.  If it
doesn't completely remove all the irrelevant info, the unwanted
things tend to be near the bottom of your search.

Martin

Re: Newbie

[황병희]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:26:00 -0700, Arun Mathai wrote:

> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am a total newbie for debian.
> 
> I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.
> 
> Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.

Hi Arun,

Yes this is question place.

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

-- 
/home/soyeomul/__SIG__

Re: Newbie

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 25 iun 20, 05:06:30, Weaver wrote:
> (2) There are a lot of people around who prefer to use your mind, and
> not their own. It's a good gauge in determining if someone is worth
> helping or not.

Anyone deserves a chance.

Gently pointing them towards the fine manuals is also help.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Newbie

[Weaver]

On 26-06-2020 07:55, Olivier Humbert wrote:
> Le 2020-06-25 23:33, Mark Allums a écrit :
>> Ask one question per post.  Do research yourself (Google is your friend.)
> 
> Google is no one's friend.
> Google is a business.
> 
> The real (interesting) sentence should have read : (a search engine is
> your friend.)

https://duckduckgo.com/

 -- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

Re: Newbie

[Olivier Humbert]

Le 2020-06-25 23:33, Mark Allums a écrit :
Ask one question per post.  Do research yourself (Google is your 
friend.)


Google is no one's friend.
Google is a business.

The real (interesting) sentence should have read : (a search engine is 
your friend.)


Olivier

Re: Newbie

[Mark Allums]

Ask one question per post.  Do research yourself (Google is your friend.)

Mark

On 6/25/2020 4:26 PM, Arun Mathai wrote:

Hello Guys,

I am a total newbie for debian.

I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.

Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.

Regards,

Arun Mathai

Re: Newbie

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:26:00 -0700
Arun Mathai  wrote:

> Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.

Ask away. There is already some good advice on this thread. You might
also read (or at least browse) Eric Steven Raymond's How To Ask
Questions The Smart Way, http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Newbie

[Weaver]

On 25-06-2020 20:05, davidson wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 Weaver wrote:
>> On 26-06-2020 07:26, Arun Mathai wrote:
>>> Hello Guys,
>>>
>>> I am a total newbie for debian.
>>>
>>> I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.
>>>
>>> Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.
> 
> [Begins evaluating OP against checklist below]
> 
>> First, make your subject line in the email descriptively relevant to
>> your problem.
> 
> Check.
> 
>> Do not put all your problems into one email,
> 
> Check.
> 
>> but if you do have separate issues, make an email to the list
>> specific to each one.
> 
> So far so good.
> 
>> Describe what attempts you have taken to solve them yourself
> 
> Not applicable. (Original Post *is* that attempt.)

No, it's applicable.
(1) What he might have tried could cut out some potential(s).
(2) There are a lot of people around who prefer to use your mind, and
not their own. It's a good gauge in determining if someone is worth
helping or not.

 
>> Describe the problem you have as concisely as you can.
> 
> Check.
> 
> OP is a natural!

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

Re: Newbie

[davidson]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 Weaver wrote:

On 26-06-2020 07:26, Arun Mathai wrote:

Hello Guys,

I am a total newbie for debian.

I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.

Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.


[Begins evaluating OP against checklist below]


First, make your subject line in the email descriptively relevant to
your problem.


Check.


Do not put all your problems into one email,


Check.


but if you do have separate issues, make an email to the list
specific to each one.


So far so good.


Describe what attempts you have taken to solve them yourself


Not applicable. (Original Post *is* that attempt.)


Describe the problem you have as concisely as you can.


Check.

OP is a natural!

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Newbie

[Weaver]

On 26-06-2020 07:26, Arun Mathai wrote:
> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am a total newbie for debian.
> 
> I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.
> 
> Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.

First, make your subject line in the email descriptively relevant to
your problem.
Do not put all your problems into one email, but if you do have separate
issues, make an email to the list specific to each one.
Describe what attempts you have taken to solve them yourself
Describe the problem you have as concisely as you can.

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

Re: Newbie

[Joe]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:26:00 -0700
Arun Mathai  wrote:

> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am a total newbie for debian.
> 
> I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.
> 
> Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.
> 
>
Ask questions here, start a new question for each unrelated problem and
put a very brief description in the subject line.

This is a user forum, not a paid helpdesk, so we do not know
everything. We should be able to help with most newcomers' problems.

-- 
Joe

Newbie

[Arun Mathai]

Hello Guys,

I am a total newbie for debian.

I have some technical difficulties and questions that i want to ask.

Could anyone please tell me how to proceed.

Regards,

Arun Mathai

Re: OT: Newbie friendly C++ list

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 17 May 2019 10:50:52 -0400
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello rhkra...@gmail.com,

>of those real time messaging type things where you post a question and

That's IRC.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Kill joy, bad guy, big talking, small fry
Death On Two Legs - Queen


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: OT: Newbie friendly C++ list

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Background: I've never fully (or even mostly / sufficiently) grokked C
> or C++, but now I'm in the position of having (or at least wanting) to
> review (and, ideally, modify) a large program written in C++
> (scintilla / scite).
>
> Question: I would like to find one (or a small number) of "newbie
> friendly" email lists where I could ask various questions.  

Dunno about mailing lists, but the usenet groups comp.lang.c and
comp.lang.c++ have put up with my noob questions -- provided that I at
least show some effort of trying to get the thing.

And even though you don't prefer them, there are IRC chatrooms focused
on the topic(e.g. ##programming on freenode)

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|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

OT: Newbie friendly C++ list

[rhkramer]

Background: I've never fully (or even mostly / sufficiently) grokked C or C++, 
but now I'm in the position of having (or at least wanting) to review (and, 
ideally, modify) a large program written in C++ (scintilla / scite).

Question: I would like to find one (or a small number) of "newbie friendly" 
email lists where I could ask various questions.  

Aside: I much prefer a mail list to a forum or a, hmm what't the word -- one 
of those real time messaging type things where you post a question and the 
people that are online at the time see the question and might answer it.  I 
have and will occasionally continue to use those, but I like mail lists best.

(Aside: because debian-user is a list that I try to pay attention to, and 
often get answers even to OT questions, I may pose some of the questions 
here.)

Thanks!!

Re: Searching and organizing emails (Re: If not "newbie" then ????)

[Richard Owlett]

On 08/23/2018 09:29 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, August 06, 2018 10:41:48 AM Richard Owlett wrote:

I don't remember what he wrote, but, at one point, I got the idea he had a lot
of posts (emails, I presume)  that he wanted to be able to search.  And maybe
organize / index.


Yes and Yes.



I have used recol for purposes like that--it can index and do full text
searches on, among other things, mbox files.


Just took a quick look at website. Worth a closer look.



(And, for my (attempt at) an askSam workalike, I organize other data into mbox
files for easy manipulation by various tools: editors with syntax highlighting
and folding capabilities, email clients, sorting utilities, ...)


The Wikipedia entry hints at interesting.



My attempt at an askSam workalike works reasonably well for me, but is not
ready for distribution.



Someone pointed me to CherryTree. It will do nicely for a loosely 
related task. I'm working on extracting what I'm interested in from 
SeaMonkey bookmarks. Email will be a while.

Searching and organizing emails (Re: If not "newbie" then ????)

[rhkramer]

On Monday, August 06, 2018 10:41:48 AM Richard Owlett wrote:

I don't remember what he wrote, but, at one point, I got the idea he had a lot 
of posts (emails, I presume)  that he wanted to be able to search.  And maybe 
organize / index.

I have used recol for purposes like that--it can index and do full text 
searches on, among other things, mbox files.  

(And, for my (attempt at) an askSam workalike, I organize other data into mbox 
files for easy manipulation by various tools: editors with syntax highlighting 
and folding capabilities, email clients, sorting utilities, ...)

My attempt at an askSam workalike works reasonably well for me, but is not 
ready for distribution.

Re: If not "newbie" then ????

[Richard Owlett]

On 08/06/2018 08:19 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 08/05/2018 10:28 PM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:


Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's cross-platform.
I download it from the web site instead of using the version in the
Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying bugs (of which I
kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if I used the repo
version).

I think that would be useful for categorizing questions and you can 
even

search through them. If you want to save to PDF or HTML, it can export
to those formats as well.

I've used CherryTree for everything from keeping code snippets to
installation instructions to writing up tutorials (and exporting to 
HTML).




I've installed CherryTree 0.38.5 from their site.
It can do everything I need *IF* I manually enter all the data.

I'm trying to import a large set of SeaMonkey bookmarks (a SQLite file).
When using SQLite commands I can create a CSV file with only the
information of interest.

The CherryTree 0.38.5 manual explicitly states that CSV can be imported.
But there is no menu item in the actual program.

The CSV has the required information to describe the node/sub-node
structure in explicit detail.

Suggestions?


   learn how to search?

   i found this within a few seconds:

   
http://giuspen.com/cherrytreemanual/Inserting_Objects--From_the_Toolbar--Tables.html 



   seems simple enough...



In this case my search skills were adequate.
My reading skills however?   ;{

I wasn't interested in a "table" per se.
The CSV file has all the information required for a CherryTree 
hierarchical file. So I had assumed (wrongly) that there was a CSV to 
ctb format conversion. Also a closer look demonstrated misunderstanding 
of how SeaMonkey handles it's data internally and why the JSON file has 
some features I found annoying. But, along with a hint from an unrelated 
thread, *MY* problem may be tractable.


My cage has been beneficently rattled ;}
The JSON file exported by SeaMonkey has too much of no interest.
I had given up on working with JSON data directly.
I did a web search for the combination of "sql" and "json".
That led to jq [https://stedolan.github.io/jq/] which led to a slightly 
different search with Synaptic. That led to "SQLite ODBC Driver" 
[http://www.ch-werner.de/sqliteodbc/].


I've not laid out the intermediate steps in detail.
However something like this seems possible:
 1. Export SeaMonkey bookmarks in JSON format.
 2. Clean it with jq.
 3. Use some tool/script to emit CSV.
 4. Edit with spreadsheet of choice, emitting CSV.
 5. Create JSON file acceptable to SeaMonkey.
[That may require creating dummy data for items disposed of in #2.]

Re: If not "newbie" then ????

[Richard Owlett]

On 08/05/2018 10:28 PM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:


Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's cross-platform.
I download it from the web site instead of using the version in the
Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying bugs (of which I
kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if I used the repo
version).

I think that would be useful for categorizing questions and you can even
search through them. If you want to save to PDF or HTML, it can export
to those formats as well.

I've used CherryTree for everything from keeping code snippets to
installation instructions to writing up tutorials (and exporting to HTML).



I've installed CherryTree 0.38.5 from their site.
It can do everything I need *IF* I manually enter all the data.

I'm trying to import a large set of SeaMonkey bookmarks (a SQLite file).
When using SQLite commands I can create a CSV file with only the
information of interest.

The CherryTree 0.38.5 manual explicitly states that CSV can be imported.
But there is no menu item in the actual program.

The CSV has the required information to describe the node/sub-node
structure in explicit detail.

Suggestions?


   learn how to search?

   i found this within a few seconds:

   
http://giuspen.com/cherrytreemanual/Inserting_Objects--From_the_Toolbar--Tables.html

   seems simple enough...



In this case my search skills were adequate.
My reading skills however?   ;{

I wasn't interested in a "table" per se.
The CSV file has all the information required for a CherryTree 
hierarchical file. So I had assumed (wrongly) that there was a CSV to 
ctb format conversion. Also a closer look demonstrated misunderstanding 
of how SeaMonkey handles it's data internally and why the JSON file has 
some features I found annoying. But, along with a hint from an unrelated 
thread, *MY* problem may be tractable.

Re: If not "newbie" then ????

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:
>> 
>> Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's cross-platform. 
>> I download it from the web site instead of using the version in the 
>> Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying bugs (of which I 
>> kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if I used the repo 
>> version).
>> 
>> I think that would be useful for categorizing questions and you can even 
>> search through them. If you want to save to PDF or HTML, it can export 
>> to those formats as well.
>> 
>> I've used CherryTree for everything from keeping code snippets to 
>> installation instructions to writing up tutorials (and exporting to HTML).
>>
>
> I've installed CherryTree 0.38.5 from their site.
> It can do everything I need *IF* I manually enter all the data.
>
> I'm trying to import a large set of SeaMonkey bookmarks (a SQLite file).
> When using SQLite commands I can create a CSV file with only the 
> information of interest.
>
> The CherryTree 0.38.5 manual explicitly states that CSV can be imported. 
> But there is no menu item in the actual program.
>
> The CSV has the required information to describe the node/sub-node 
> structure in explicit detail.
>
> Suggestions?

  learn how to search?

  i found this within a few seconds:

  
http://giuspen.com/cherrytreemanual/Inserting_Objects--From_the_Toolbar--Tables.html

  seems simple enough...


  songbird

Re: If not "newbie" then ????

[Richard Owlett]

On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:


Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's cross-platform. 
I download it from the web site instead of using the version in the 
Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying bugs (of which I 
kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if I used the repo 
version).


I think that would be useful for categorizing questions and you can even 
search through them. If you want to save to PDF or HTML, it can export 
to those formats as well.


I've used CherryTree for everything from keeping code snippets to 
installation instructions to writing up tutorials (and exporting to HTML).




I've installed CherryTree 0.38.5 from their site.
It can do everything I need *IF* I manually enter all the data.

I'm trying to import a large set of SeaMonkey bookmarks (a SQLite file).
When using SQLite commands I can create a CSV file with only the 
information of interest.


The CherryTree 0.38.5 manual explicitly states that CSV can be imported. 
But there is no menu item in the actual program.


The CSV has the required information to describe the node/sub-node 
structure in explicit detail.


Suggestions?
TIA

Re: CherryTree - was [Re: If not "newbie" then ????]

[Brian]

On Sat 04 Aug 2018 at 05:50:24 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 08/04/2018 05:43 AM, Brian wrote:
> > On Sat 04 Aug 2018 at 05:20:29 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > 
> > > On 07/22/2018 03:07 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > > > 
> > > > > Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's
> > > > > cross-platform. I download it from the web site instead of using the
> > > > > version in the Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying
> > > > > bugs (of which I kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if
> > > > > I used the repo version).
> > > > 
> > > > I browsed its manual then installed the version in the Debian Repo. It
> > > > should address two problems:
> > > >     1. finding relevant posts.
> > > >     2. organizing my bookmarks folder. Like Topsy it just grew.
> > > 
> > > Is there a mailing list or USENET group where discussion of CherryTree 
> > > would
> > > be on-topic?
> > > 
> > > I've found [http://www.giuspen.com/forums/] but have never found web fora
> > > usable.
> > 
> > > From the link you give:
> > 
> >cherrytree
> > 
> >This forum contains 662 topics and 2,280 replies, and was last
> >updated by Klaas Vaak 5 hours, 4 minutes ago.
> > 
> > The forum appears alive and active. Lots to read.
> 
> TRY *READING* before responding!!!

I did; that's why I gave the response I posted.
 
> > Sometimes one has to compromise, adjust and fit into what is available.
> 
> Quantity is NOT everything. NOTE BENE the last word of my post.

Never mind the quality, feel the width.

> Apparently your only possible ON-TOPIC response you could have been to admit
> you didn't know.

I didn't even look. I assume your search skills as at least as good as
mine. You didn't find anything - why should I?

-- 
Brian.

Re: CherryTree - was [Re: If not "newbie" then ????]

[Richard Owlett]

On 08/04/2018 05:43 AM, Brian wrote:

On Sat 04 Aug 2018 at 05:20:29 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


On 07/22/2018 03:07 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 07/21/2018 04:46 PM, cyaiplexys wrote:

[snip]


Try CherryTree. I use that program for everything. It's
cross-platform. I download it from the web site instead of using the
version in the Debian Repo as the latest version fixes some annoying
bugs (of which I kinda forgot what but would quickly be reminded if
I used the repo version).


I browsed its manual then installed the version in the Debian Repo. It
should address two problems:
    1. finding relevant posts.
    2. organizing my bookmarks folder. Like Topsy it just grew.


Is there a mailing list or USENET group where discussion of CherryTree would
be on-topic?

I've found [http://www.giuspen.com/forums/] but have never found web fora
usable.



From the link you give:


   cherrytree

   This forum contains 662 topics and 2,280 replies, and was last
   updated by Klaas Vaak 5 hours, 4 minutes ago.

The forum appears alive and active. Lots to read.


TRY *READING* before responding!!!



Sometimes one has to compromise, adjust and fit into what is available.


Quantity is NOT everything. NOTE BENE the last word of my post.
Apparently your only possible ON-TOPIC response you could have been to 
admit you didn't know.