Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
Hello, all! I'm currently in the market for a laptop/notebook computer on which to have a fully free installation of Debian GNU/Linux. That's is, I plan to have no proprietary programs whatsoever installed on it. This doesn't mean that I won't install some programs which Debian, as per the Debian Free Software Guidelines, may consider to be non-free, since I believe there is quite a number of programs which Debian places in this category but which still actually meet the Free Software Definintion and are therefore considered non-proprietary/free software. Wi-Fi should work out of the box. The graphics should be free software-friendly. I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 and the Thinkpad Edge E420. Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? Thanks :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/533472a3.8060...@openmailbox.org
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
debian-lap...@lists.debian.org -- Perhaps the most widespread illusion is that if we were in power we would behave very differently from those who now hold it -- when, in truth, in order to get power we would have to become very much like them. (Lenin's fatal mistake, both in theory and in practice.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140327145737.221ea...@mrqueue.com
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
On Fri 28 Mar 2014 at 02:49:07 +0800, Testosticore Fantastiballs wrote: I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 and the Thinkpad Edge E420. Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? For the first machine: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/Edge-E130/wheezy For the second; I don't know whether the 's' makes any difference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_Edge_E420s -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/27032014221400.66693bc68...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 and the Thinkpad Edge E420. Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? I own this, I love it: http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2012/09/linux-and-samsung-series-9-np900x3c.html Regards. -- Usuario Linux Registrado # 342019 -- http://linuxcounter.net/ -- skype -- luedcortes gtalk -- luedcor...@gmail.com msn -- luedcor...@gmail.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFkPpbzsNGra_hX5pccG4=wrkDLqrGoW482e4R0GaZg2si=i...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
On 28/03/14 05:49, Testosticore Fantastiballs wrote: Hello, all! I'm currently in the market for a laptop/notebook computer on which to have a fully free installation of Debian GNU/Linux. Sounds good. That's is, I plan to have no proprietary programs whatsoever installed on it. This doesn't mean that I won't install some programs which Debian, as per the Debian Free Software Guidelines, may consider to be non-free, since I believe there is quite a number of programs which Debian places in this category but which still actually meet the Free Software Definintion and are therefore considered non-proprietary/free software. Wi-Fi should work out of the box. The graphics should be free software-friendly. I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_Edge_E130 http://support.lenovo.com/en_IN/downloads/detail.page?DocID=PD024605 https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/Edge-E130/wheezy and the Thinkpad Edge E420. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:E420 http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:E420s http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/Lenovo/thinkpad+edge+e420 Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? Yes. For your stated objectives you'd do better selecting a laptop that *is* supported by Coreboot (e.g. the venerable T60). Search these lists for a post by Stan on that model Thinkpad. http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards#Laptops Thanks :) Kind regards http://www.tuxmobil.org/ibm.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5334b7fb.7050...@gmail.com
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
Happily Recommend this: http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2014-A-Fantastic-Revision/ Or The Haswell revision of the Acer Aspire S7 Or the Asus UX301 Basically if you are buying a laptop new. Don't buy anything that isn't a Haswell chip - mainly due to battery life issues with Ivybridge series. Also avoid anything with 'Hybrid' Graphics. There are issues with EDP panel recognition under even intel-drm-next kernel trees with these due to poorly implemented and documented EDP matrix splitters between graphics chipsets. I have it on Authority that Haswell will be the last chipset where Optimus/Hybrid graphics will exists. Good riddance. -Joel @aenertia On 28 March 2014 07:49, Testosticore Fantastiballs testostic...@openmailbox.org wrote: Hello, all! I'm currently in the market for a laptop/notebook computer on which to have a fully free installation of Debian GNU/Linux. That's is, I plan to have no proprietary programs whatsoever installed on it. This doesn't mean that I won't install some programs which Debian, as per the Debian Free Software Guidelines, may consider to be non-free, since I believe there is quite a number of programs which Debian places in this category but which still actually meet the Free Software Definintion and are therefore considered non-proprietary/free software. Wi-Fi should work out of the box. The graphics should be free software-friendly. I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 and the Thinkpad Edge E420. Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? Thanks :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/533472a3.8060...@openmailbox.org
Re: Debian laptop recommendations? Non-proprietary software only.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 10:16:35PM +, Brian wrote: On Fri 28 Mar 2014 at 02:49:07 +0800, Testosticore Fantastiballs wrote: I'm currently eying the Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E130 and the Thinkpad Edge E420. Have any of you had experience with any of these machines or similar ones? For the first machine: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/Edge-E130/wheezy For the second; I don't know whether the 's' makes any difference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_Edge_E420s I've never owned a new laptop (while I do buy new components and build my own desktops from scratch), but I've purchased used ones on ebay, and had great luck with Dells (d420, d620) and old IBM Thinkpads (had an a21m, for instance). tony -- https://tonybaldwin.info art, music, software by me, tony 3F330C6E signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT - Laptop Recommendations
Mark Phillips wrote at 2009-11-10 15:15 -0600: Thanks for your laptop ideas! I'm not sure what you are wanting here, but I own a ThinkPad and would recommend considering those if you have not yet. Linux support is good and somehow they don't have the cheap feel of many cheaper laptops. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
OT - Laptop Recommendations
My current Dell Latitude C640 has died, so I am in the market for a new laptop. I am looking at either a refurbished Dell latitude D830 or a new Dell Studio 1555. Both are about the same price ~$700. The Studio 1555 Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6600 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English 15.6” High Definition (720p) LED Display with TrueLife™ and Camera 8X Slot Load CD/DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive) 4GB2 Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz Speed: 500GB3 SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) with Free Fall Sensor 512MB4 ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570 McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months Intel® WiFi Link 5100 802.11agn Half Mini-Card 56 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell) The Dell Latitiude 830 Intel® Core™ Duo processor L1 cache 64 KB (internal) L2 cache 2 MB (on die) External bus frequency 800 MHz System chipset Intel® 965GM and 965PM Data bus width 64 bits DRAM bus width 64 bits Processor address bus width 36 bits CardBus controller OZ711 Memory module capacities 2GB (max 4GB) Memory type 533/667 DDRII SDRAM Network adapter 1-GB Ethernet LAN on system board Graphics - nVIDIA Quadro NVS 135M or nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M, Intel GM965 WXGA, WSXGA+, or WUXGA 6-cell lithium-ion battery 56 WHr I will be running Debian testing, windows XP/7 as a vm. Mostly used for Java, Python, web development, and all the normal work processing, email stuff, and video/audio editing. This is my main workstation, so I need some degree of portability. I am leaning towards the Latitude only because I have read some reviews of the Studio 1555, and the reviews dinged it for a flimsy case. Latitudes are know to have solid frames. Thanks for your laptop ideas! Mark
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Just avoid ATI graphics cards, and nVidia as well (tho it's not as bad). Integrated Intel graphics is often the best choice (best support under GNU/Linux, best battery life as well). How are they for GL? Works, but it's not the fastest there is, obviously. I don't think OpenGL matters too much for laptops (note that I don't consider desktop replacements as laptops, really). I think a blocking factor for many users is If I get an Intel card, can I still game on a Debian box? Obviously it depends on the games. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 13:45 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: Works, but it's not the fastest there is, obviously. I don't think OpenGL matters too much for laptops (note that I don't consider desktop replacements as laptops, really). I think a blocking factor for many users is If I get an Intel card, can I still game on a Debian box? Obviously it depends on the games. The site Phoronix did some basic benchmarks a while ago, comparing Intel GMA 3000 with a Radeon X300SE. I have no idea if that's the best Intel has to offer when it comes to free graphics, but the result isn't impressive. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=646num=1 -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
It's interesting to see so many people railing against ATI cards and preferring Nvidia these days. I guess it depends upon your concerns. For years now, I've always bought ATI to get usable 3D performance and support out of the box on my Debian machines. I just use the open DRI drivers distributed with the kernel and Xorg. I've avoided Nvidia to avoid the displeasure of trying to get kernel support from the lists, and they won't talk to you until you reproduce your problem without the proprietary drivers loaded. I also don't like to sit around waiting for 3rd-party drivers to come out. I've come to understand that I'll not get compiz or beryl (flashy 3d desktop environments) to work anytime soon on my ATI card, and I must admit that I don't push my machine performance with many games. Have circumstances in the Nvidia/ATI worlds changed? -- John M Flinchbaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 15:40 -0500, John M Flinchbaugh wrote: I've come to understand that I'll not get compiz or beryl (flashy 3d desktop environments) to work anytime soon on my ATI card, and I must admit that I don't push my machine performance with many games. My old Radeon 9100 works fine in Compiz (using AIGLX) with the free DRI drivers. A few of the effects doesn't work but I believe this is limitations of the card, and not the drivers. -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On 2/23/07, John M Flinchbaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's interesting to see so many people railing against ATI cards and preferring Nvidia these days. I guess it depends upon your concerns. For years now, I've always bought ATI to get usable 3D performance and support out of the box on my Debian machines. I just use the open DRI drivers distributed with the kernel and Xorg. I've avoided Nvidia to avoid the displeasure of trying to get kernel support from the lists, and they won't talk to you until you reproduce your problem without the proprietary drivers loaded. I also don't like to sit around waiting for 3rd-party drivers to come out. I've come to understand that I'll not get compiz or beryl (flashy 3d desktop environments) to work anytime soon on my ATI card, and I must admit that I don't push my machine performance with many games. Have circumstances in the Nvidia/ATI worlds changed? -- John M Flinchbaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi John, ATI has stopped providing decent proprietary/closed source video drivers for their video cards under GNU/Linux or at least that's what I hear. This has angered many GNU/Linux users and prompted them to switch to Nvidia (since they have much better closed source drivers). I would hope that stunts like this would wake up more folks in the community to the fact that we desperately need open source video drivers. I really dislike the proprietary drivers: Everytime their is a kernel upgrade I find myself reinstalling video drivers :/ I think I liked things better when everyone was trying to reverse engineer video cards to run in GNU/Linux. The support was much better. Their is a petition to ATI floating around, www.petitiononline.com/atipet/ about their lack of support to the community. A lot of people ask the folks who are IT savvy (quite often GNU/Linux users of some sort) which card to get for their *doze* box. I hear NVIDIA much more often than ATI these days simply because of their drivers. I don't believe that companies will ever provide software or support that is as good as a user based dev community can. When I was shopping for a new laptop recently I met quite a few folks who kept right on moving when they saw ATI inside even if the price was good. I would ask them why and the answer was usually I am installing Linux. Intel claims they are going to go completely open source with their drivers (which would be great) but I haven't seen it yet. Best Regards, Manaen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Stefan Monnier wrote: Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Just avoid ATI graphics cards, and nVidia as well (tho it's not as bad). Integrated Intel graphics is often the best choice (best support under GNU/Linux, best battery life as well). How are they for GL? I think a blocking factor for many users is If I get an Intel card, can I still game on a Debian box? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:22:04 +0100 Lorenzo Bettini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Wescott wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations on a distro to use? I've got Etch on this machine, and I'm mostly happy with it. At this point I'd like to stick with something that has similar administration issues, but if there's a distro that's clearly better for laptops I'll go with that. Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Should push come to shove I may just put the Fry's website up against the listings in linux-laptop.org and find a good match, but I'm enough of a newbie that I'd like to buy from someone who's put some effort into the selection, first. I'm using Etch on sony vaio: http://www.lorenzobettini.it/linux/LinuxSonyVaioVGN-S5VP_B hope this helps Sid on Acer Aspire AS3690. Works quite well. Not sure if resuming from suspend always works properly. Wireless is a Broadcom AirForce One, supported by bcm43xx, works quite well but you'll need (non-free) firmware (bcm43xx-fwcutter). Haven't used modem, bluetooth, cardreader. My installation report is bug #410328. Celejar -- ssuds.sourceforge.net - Home of Ssuds and Ssudg, a Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Tim Wescott wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations on a distro to use? I've got Etch on this machine, and I'm mostly happy with it. At this point I'd like to stick with something that has similar administration issues, but if there's a distro that's clearly better for laptops I'll go with that. Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Should push come to shove I may just put the Fry's website up against the listings in linux-laptop.org and find a good match, but I'm enough of a newbie that I'd like to buy from someone who's put some effort into the selection, first. I'm using Etch on sony vaio: http://www.lorenzobettini.it/linux/LinuxSonyVaioVGN-S5VP_B hope this helps -- Lorenzo Bettini, PhD in Computer Science, DSI, Univ. di Firenze ICQ# lbetto, 16080134 (GNU/Linux User # 158233) HOME: http://www.lorenzobettini.it MUSIC: http://www.purplesucker.com BLOGS: http://tronprog.blogspot.com http://longlivemusic.blogspot.com http://www.gnu.org/software/src-highlite http://www.gnu.org/software/gengetopt http://www.gnu.org/software/gengen http://doublecpp.sourceforge.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Just avoid ATI graphics cards, and nVidia as well (tho it's not as bad). Integrated Intel graphics is often the best choice (best support under GNU/Linux, best battery life as well). Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations? Thinkpad
I am just documenting this for the mail archive. On 2007-02-02T09:56:45+0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I installed Debian/unstable on a new Thinkpad Z61p. Unfortunately my usual procedure using netboot Debian-NetInstaller didn't work, because it didnt liked the Broadcom TG3 ethernet. http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ethernet_Controllers#Broadcom_Gigabit_.2810.2F100.2F1000.29 has some dirt on that. rmmod was not availble, so I skipped network configuration and whatever else required network access. Rebooted into newly installed system and found that tg3 drver was now working. Added the following to /etc/network/interfaces: auto eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp and did: # ifdown eth0 # ifup eth0 then manually configured /etc/apt/sources.list and I was in business. /Allan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... I manage two Thinkpads: my own and my girl friends' (that was bought second hand). Both happen to have the 'factory installed OS', but IBM/Lenovo didn't require that for diagnosis. The used laptop's hard drive failed as soon as I tried to fill the disk with data from block 1 to last. I just phoned them once, and received the replacement within 24 hours. On the other box the multiburner failed with read/write errors and I got a replacement within 24 hours after reading the relevant parts of /var/log/syslog to the support line. YMMV, but I am a happy Thinkpad user, Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On 01 Feb 2007, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... A I've just acquired a Lenovo Thinkpad Z61M and am still in the process of setting up Debian on it. It's a beautiful machine, if expensive. Last time I bought a Thinkpad, about 2 years ago, I deleted all traces of Windows. This time I decided to keep it, mainly because about once or twice a year I need to test some Windows programme or other. The reason quoted above is another which I hadn't thought of. Keeping Windows was quite a struggle because I had difficulties shrinking the partition (discussed elsewhere on this list). I finally managed it after a day and a half. I nearly gave up but it did work in the end. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, on-line books and sceptical articles) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations? Thinkpad
Anthony Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 02.02.2007 09:34:50: I've just acquired a Lenovo Thinkpad Z61M and am still in the process of setting up Debian on it. It's a beautiful machine, if expensive. Last time I bought a Thinkpad, about 2 years ago, I deleted all traces of Windows. This time I decided to keep it, mainly because about once or twice a year I need to test some Windows programme or other. The reason quoted above is another which I hadn't thought of. Keeping Windows was quite a struggle because I had difficulties shrinking the partition (discussed elsewhere on this list). I finally managed it after a day and a half. I nearly gave up but it did work in I installed Debian/unstable on a new Thinkpad Z61p. Unfortunately my usual procedure using netboot Debian-NetInstaller didn't work, because it didnt liked the Broadcom TG3 ethernet. So I booted from Knoppix v5.11 DVD to + first use gparted to shrink the WinXP-Partition to 10GB + added new partitions for Linux boot, root and SWAP + setup cryptsetup-luks on new root + installed debian with debootstrap + install grub + installed the ATI fglrx-driver from experimental, although the VESA one also works with 1920x1200 + using customized kernel 2.6.19.2 from ftp.kernel.org Thanks to www.thinkwiki.org I got all the devices working, eg. HDASP hardisk-protection, Intel 3945 WLAN, battery, thinkpad control stuff (ibm-acpi) etc. Even the fingerprint reader works using the great young stuff from thinkfinger.sf.net. Suspend to Disk via uswusp s2disk sometimes rejects to do it, I haven't found out the offending driver/circumstances yet. Also I noticed that after resume the display output is very very slow, but I expect that to be hopefully fixed in near future by ATI/newer kernel?! So overall I'm happy with it. Negative points: The Z61p BIOS doesn't proivide a switch to Enable the Core2DUo VT-functionality yet. On the X60's and T60 it is already available. That prevented me to use Xen HVM. Hopefully Lenovo will add this feature with the next BIOS otherwise it would be a major cripple of this Core2Duo-System. I also tried unsuccesfully to start the shrinked WinXP partition under VMWare server using a separate hardware-profile, but it keeps dying BSOD upon boot. Anyone managed to do this without a new clean WinXP-install? WR, Bruno -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;-) I know i can count on you to buy one... Careful now! I put those thing together myself and the truly difficult one is laptops. (I noticed that in this thread only Raquel really gave recommendations) Here is another one: http://groovix.com/groovix.html I would start in an area that M$ does *not* cover, like what I have: multiseat systems. Most people nowadays have several computers, which is a waste. A system for the price of a videocard. A solution I would add: multi-seat laptop. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;- (Sorry if I got the quotes messed up: I'm in a hurry, and folks suck at quoting ;) I for one would be interested in a supplier of Debian-ready PCs. I'm not a hardware person, so it's always stressful building a Free Software friendly PC for me/family/friends. Tim -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Поправьте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/02/07 06:35, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] I would start in an area that M$ does *not* cover, like what I have: multiseat systems. Most people nowadays have several computers, which is a waste. A system for the price of a videocard. sing-song Let's do the Time Warp again! /sing-song It warms the cockles of this Dinosaur's heart to hear people admit that most people don't need PCs on their desks. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFwzwiS9HxQb37XmcRAixxAJ0Qj9Ukg0rXukqGGHF0Xdqo36TfIgCgj+2z dDVlk2s0+vnfkgsxMgTpwbk= =fHgv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/02/07 07:11, Timothy Musson wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;- (Sorry if I got the quotes messed up: I'm in a hurry, and folks suck at quoting ;) I for one would be interested in a supplier of Debian-ready PCs. I'm not a hardware person, so it's always stressful building a Free Software friendly PC for me/family/friends. Especially if you want something a bit atypical like very-low-noise systems, but don't feel like spending thousands of dollars rebuilding your PC when you discover that that highly-rated silent part failed 10 days after warranty and then made a horrible screeching noise. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFwzzzS9HxQb37XmcRAr1bAKCJTxGUjIa4FbzvHtUK65hl29drbACfUgYN ihDm88DtOMwQ6uylPltXf6w= =3Lgp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On 2/1/07, Tim Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. HP nx6110 is shipped with Freedos or Novell Linux Desktop 9 and works good with Ubuntu 6.10. Modem and hibernation work fine. I didn't install wi-fi drivers, but I know that wi-fi works for some people with ndiswrapper. As for Thinkpads, I am so used to Hyper keys on the keyboard (aka Windows-key :)) that I found these notebooks very uncomfortable. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev Russian history blog: http://minaev.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 07:26:58AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/02/07 06:35, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] I would start in an area that M$ does *not* cover, like what I have: multiseat systems. Most people nowadays have several computers, which is a waste. A system for the price of a videocard. sing-song Let's do the Time Warp again! /sing-song It warms the cockles of this Dinosaur's heart to hear people admit that most people don't need PCs on their desks. What we really need are terminals for the cost of a cheap video card. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/02/07 07:57, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 07:26:58AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/02/07 06:35, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] I would start in an area that M$ does *not* cover, like what I have: multiseat systems. Most people nowadays have several computers, which is a waste. A system for the price of a videocard. sing-song Let's do the Time Warp again! /sing-song It warms the cockles of this Dinosaur's heart to hear people admit that most people don't need PCs on their desks. What we really need are terminals for the cost of a cheap video card. A keyboard+CRT+circuits for the price of a *mass*-produced circuit board? Can't happen. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFw0dJS9HxQb37XmcRAupFAKCl5GMruvkgwElRM3GShZWsdd+sMwCgrkcJ yl3exP2mUmvxsFAK+ShsnK8= =uaUf -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations? Thinkpad Sound
Anthony Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 02.02.2007 15:30:57: because it didnt liked the Broadcom TG3 ethernet. [snip] Same here. I used a pcmcia card (still using it in fact because Broadcom still not working). The www.kernel.org pristine kernel works with it, I downloaded the source and build the kernel package myself using make-kpg.. Did you get sound to work? I've configured it with alsaconf and it went off correctly but no sound apart from beep. No idea how to solve this. Sounds works for me: dpkg -l alsa* ii alsa-base1.0.13-3 ALSA driver configuration files ii alsa-oss 1.0.12-1 ALSA wrapper for OSS applications ii alsa-utils 1.0.13-2 ALSA utilities ii alsamixergui 0.9.0rc2-1-9 graphical soundcard mixer for ALSA soundcard ii alsaplayer 0.99.76-0.3sarge1 PCM player designed for ALSA ii alsaplayer-common0.99.76-9 PCM player designed for ALSA (common files) ii alsaplayer-gtk 0.99.76-9 PCM player designed for ALSA (GTK version) ii alsaplayer-oss 0.99.76-9 PCM player designed for ALSA (OSS output mod lspci | grep -i audio 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02) Bruno -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations? Thinkpad
On 02 Feb 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 02.02.2007 09:34:50: I've just acquired a Lenovo Thinkpad Z61M and am still in the process of setting up Debian on it. It's a beautiful machine, if expensive. Last time I bought a Thinkpad, about 2 years ago, I deleted all traces of Windows. This time I decided to keep it, mainly because about once or twice a year I need to test some Windows programme or other. The reason quoted above is another which I hadn't thought of. Keeping Windows was quite a struggle because I had difficulties shrinking the partition (discussed elsewhere on this list). I finally managed it after a day and a half. I nearly gave up but it did work in I installed Debian/unstable on a new Thinkpad Z61p. Unfortunately my usual procedure using netboot Debian-NetInstaller didn't work, because it didnt liked the Broadcom TG3 ethernet. [snip] Same here. I used a pcmcia card (still using it in fact because Broadcom still not working). [snip] Did you get sound to work? I've configured it with alsaconf and it went off correctly but no sound apart from beep. No idea how to solve this. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, on-line books and sceptical articles) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Dmitri Minaev wrote: On 2/1/07, Tim Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. HP nx6110 is shipped with Freedos or Novell Linux Desktop 9 and works good with Ubuntu 6.10. This: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834147248 shows only XP. You must have gotten it somewhere else. Modem and hibernation work fine. I didn't install wi-fi drivers, but I know that wi-fi works for some people with ndiswrapper. As for Thinkpads, I am so used to Hyper keys on the keyboard (aka Windows-key :)) that I found these notebooks very uncomfortable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 09:34:25AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... I manage two Thinkpads: my own and my girl friends' (that was bought second hand). Both happen to have the 'factory installed OS', but IBM/Lenovo didn't require that for diagnosis. The used laptop's hard drive failed as soon as I tried to fill the disk with data from block 1 to last. I just phoned them once, and received the replacement within 24 hours. On the other box the multiburner failed with read/write errors and I got a replacement within 24 hours after reading the relevant parts of /var/log/syslog to the support line. okay that's sweet. They'll get my $ when its time. Try that trick with average oem and see what happens. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations? Thinkpad
On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 09:56 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Negative points: The Z61p BIOS doesn't proivide a switch to Enable the Core2DUo VT-functionality yet. On the X60's and T60 it is already available. That prevented me to use Xen HVM. Hopefully Lenovo will add this feature with the next BIOS otherwise it would be a major cripple of this Core2Duo-System Lenovo seems to loose more and more credibility with the free software community, see http://hughsient.livejournal.com/12948.html -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
As for Thinkpads, I am so used to Hyper keys on the keyboard (aka Windows-key :)) that I found these notebooks very uncomfortable. AFAICT (I'm about to receive mine), the Thinkpad keyboards do have windows keys now. And they're among the rare laptops with 3 buttons, which is *very* convenient if you're a heavy Emacs user. Actually, I'm surprised at how most linux-laptop vendors offer mostly laptops with 2 buttons only, given that X11 has traditionally been used with 3-button mice, and so many applications make use of all 3. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Stefan Monnier wrote: Actually, I'm surprised at how most linux-laptop vendors offer mostly laptops with 2 buttons only, given that X11 has traditionally been used with 3-button mice, and so many applications make use of all 3. My Thinkpads actually have 5, though two are just 'duplicates' of the other 'left' and 'right' ;-) I don't miss the logo keys on mine, though I could probably remap one of the other 'surplus' keys for that purpose. I like the touchpad, the keybord and the display better than that of any non-Thinkpad laptop that I've ever seen and tried. While we're at it, also take care that the laptop of your liking doesn't have the page-up/down, delete keys etc. in inconvenient or dangerously silly positions... Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;-) I know i can count on you to buy one... Careful now! I put those thing together myself and the truly difficult one is laptops. (I noticed that in this thread only Raquel really gave recommendations) Here is another one: http://groovix.com/groovix.html I would start in an area that M$ does *not* cover, like what I have: multiseat systems. Most people nowadays have several computers, which is a waste. A system for the price of a videocard. A solution I would add: multi-seat laptop. Hugo I bought a desktop from Groovix and was very pleased with their service and support, not that I needed much of the latter. They were prompt with delivery and everything worked as advertised, so I guess in a way I didn't really get the chance to test them, but I got the impression that it's a very well run and responsible company. Came with Ubuntu pre-installed, which eventually I dumped in favor of Debian. They used to pre-install Debian, but switched for obvious reasons. -- Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. --S. Jackson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Stefan Monnier wrote: As for Thinkpads, I am so used to Hyper keys on the keyboard (aka Windows-key :)) that I found these notebooks very uncomfortable. AFAICT (I'm about to receive mine), the Thinkpad keyboards do have windows keys now. And they're among the rare laptops with 3 buttons, which is *very* convenient if you're a heavy Emacs user. Actually, I'm surprised at how most linux-laptop vendors offer mostly laptops with 2 buttons only, given that X11 has traditionally been used with 3-button mice, and so many applications make use of all 3. I much prefer the button eraser type mouse on Thinkpads to the touchpads that everyone else uses. -- Marc Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Laptop Recommendations?
I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. After looking around the web and asking locally, I've found two sources of laptops that come new with Linux loaded. One is Linux Certified, the other Emperor Linux. Linux Certified has name-brand laptops (Lenovo) at very attractive prices. Emperor Linux has rebranded laptops at premium prices, but they come very highly recommended. Does anyone have any mileage with either of these vendors? Does anyone have any recommendations on a distro to use? I've got Etch on this machine, and I'm mostly happy with it. At this point I'd like to stick with something that has similar administration issues, but if there's a distro that's clearly better for laptops I'll go with that. Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Should push come to shove I may just put the Fry's website up against the listings in linux-laptop.org and find a good match, but I'm enough of a newbie that I'd like to buy from someone who's put some effort into the selection, first. Thanks in advance. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services www.wescottdesign.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:31:23 -0800 Tim Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. After looking around the web and asking locally, I've found two sources of laptops that come new with Linux loaded. One is Linux Certified, the other Emperor Linux. Linux Certified has name-brand laptops (Lenovo) at very attractive prices. Emperor Linux has rebranded laptops at premium prices, but they come very highly recommended. Does anyone have any mileage with either of these vendors? Does anyone have any recommendations on a distro to use? I've got Etch on this machine, and I'm mostly happy with it. At this point I'd like to stick with something that has similar administration issues, but if there's a distro that's clearly better for laptops I'll go with that. Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Should push come to shove I may just put the Fry's website up against the listings in linux-laptop.org and find a good match, but I'm enough of a newbie that I'd like to buy from someone who's put some effort into the selection, first. Thanks in advance. -- Tim Wescott This doesn't answer any of your questions, but I'm also looking at laptops with Linux installed. I've found a couple of other places: System 76 (I've seen some good reviews) http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1?gclid=CLyKjPjxhooCFSLiYAodC0dseg SWTechnology http://www.swt.com/notebooks.html -- Raquel The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. --Abigail van Buren -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Tim Wescott wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. After looking around the web and asking locally, I've found two sources of laptops that come new with Linux loaded. One is Linux Certified, the other Emperor Linux. Linux Certified has name-brand laptops (Lenovo) at very attractive prices. Emperor Linux has rebranded laptops at premium prices, but they come very highly recommended. Does anyone have any mileage with either of these vendors? I ordered a Rhino system (Dell Latitude D800) from EmperorLinux 2 1/2 years ago -- still working great. I had them install Debian on it, which I believe at the time was some combo of testing and unstable in order to get all the hardware working correctly. I thought they were very responsive to tech support issues. They give you a nice little manual with it as well. They also have the ability to login to your laptop and do some maintenance for you if you're *really* stuck -- only after you run a script to give them an ssh tunnel (I wouldn't want to create the impression that their systems come root compromised or anything!). In the end, I wondered if it was worth the extra money. I probably won't order another laptop from them in the future because my sysadmin skills have improved enough that I think I could handle the setup, kernel tweaking, etc., myself. But 2 1/2 years ago I wasn't as familiar with Debian and/or general Linux admin as I am now, and having everything working out of the box was very nice. The only regret I have had about it was I didn't make the laptop dual boot with the Windows install that came with it. I wanted to force myself to have a clean break from M$-land and I didn't want the crutch there. However, Dell won't support Linux on their laptops so if you have a hardware issue you can end up SOL. It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). Overall, my experiences with EmperorLinux were positive. Although they are pricey if you already have the admin skills necessary to make Linux nice on a laptop. Oh, and you're not really getting a laptop without paying for Windows when you order from EmperorLinux (unless things have changed). But on the plus side I was able to make my paid-for Window$ license work for me in a VMWare virtual machine that I can fire up on this laptop if I really need to. Thanks, Rick Reynolds -- If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done -- Scott Adams -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu February 1 2007 08:31, Tim Wescott wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. After looking around the web and asking locally, I've found two sources of laptops that come new with Linux loaded. One is Linux Certified, the other Emperor Linux. Linux Certified has name-brand laptops (Lenovo) at very attractive prices. Emperor Linux has rebranded laptops at premium prices, but they come very highly recommended. I must have a look and see what those are all about. Does anyone have any mileage with either of these vendors? Does anyone have any recommendations on a distro to use? I've got Etch on this machine, and I'm mostly happy with it. At this point I'd like to stick with something that has similar administration issues, but if there's a distro that's clearly better for laptops I'll go with that. Does anyone have any recent experience, either good or bad, with any specific laptops? Should push come to shove I may just put the Fry's website up against the listings in linux-laptop.org and find a good match, but I'm enough of a newbie that I'd like to buy from someone who's put some effort into the selection, first. I bought an hp pavilion second hand last year, not that I was really in the market for a laptop but the price was right. The unit is 3 or 4 years old now but still like new. It has an Athlon k7 running at 1.7 Ghz and 768 megs of ram and an ati video card (previous owner was a gamer). It came with a windows install disk but I immediately installed sarge on it and I haven't looked back. A little to the left of where you were looking but that's my experience.. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Alan Ianson wrote: ... I bought an hp pavilion second hand last year, not that I was really in the market for a laptop but the price was right. The unit is 3 or 4 years old now but still like new. It has an Athlon k7 running at 1.7 Ghz and 768 megs of ram and an ati video card (previous owner was a gamer). It came with a windows install disk but I immediately installed sarge on it and I haven't looked back. Similar experience...I recently picked up a new HP Pavilion (dv2130us), mainly because of its small size/weight. I use it mostly with Windows (main app is Windows only), but for yucks I swapped out the hard disk and installed Kubuntu dapper. Install was very smooth, and all of the traditional trouble areas (wifi, suspend, hibernate, etc.) worked perfectly out-of-the-box. I was impressed :) Jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:05AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... A That seems to be a bigger issue than get a pseudo-ms-less desktop like Dell now offers. You can get it with a freedos floppy but you have to buy a box of Suse which Dell will not install or support. So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? And of course that any free OS system will just cost more. So it is less than useless to have an OS-free machine, if in order to get support from Dell or other folks, you need Winblows for them to address and fix your computer woes. You will always need winbows to get official support and to install bios updates and other things. It seems with a free os you can never recieve support from an ISP, hw manufacture, laptop maker, etc. Unless you find someone like system76, pogolinux, etc. And that is not much in the way of consumer choice. -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 01 February 2007 13:52, Rick Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. I have a Sony Vaio (don't get one, the hardware is unique and substantially under-supported) PCG-GRT170 laptop, and for the support issue (extended Circuit City warrantee, used 5 or 6 times for DVD drive failures) I restored WinXP to the original 5400rpm HD after I bought myself a 7200rpm HD with better seek times, transfer rates etc, and put Unstable on that. Now if I want that last little bit of hardware debugging: Does it fail in Windows too?, I just swap HDs which isn't traumatic. It also keeps them from erasing my Linux install and putting XP back on it which they did once before I figured this trick out. And I run only Linux on the system the rest of the time. Ok, once ever couple of years I put the other HD in and play _Age of Empires_ for a day or two until I cannot stand XP anymore. It was a _very_ well spent ~$100 at NewEgg, recommended to anyone who has the money to do it. Oh, get a bigger HD than came with the laptop originally, I mean, why not? The OEM HD is virtually certain to be 5400rpm even on top of the line laptops. I've had no heat problems, even when transcoding video and authoring DVDs. Curt- - -- September 11th, 2001 The proudest day for gun control and central planning advocates in American history -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBRcJKIy9Y35yItIgBAQJhwwf+I92Yafk7TIaeJYz2OXTIdFFKJXKN6C9L VCdeP86yyhlGaPhva0ZzgkJWJfuCTduN/K+lDbQS+Y9Sk71UdHdRJ3lL62XeYvYC np9Abgr31e5LeKmXL+CYc0yyE1NcexoiHmeXlX14k3GYuC5N9JGg31iuxCV4XW/H jIekzcxzsp/5o4yjcRFUOzUt9usUbT2MMjnhHCKUehRbWpWP8foDmYERUJNLVfq6 es9W1sf9VTLe4x/vTA7O+XBojtU9AZ+/H/aRRO0QutrbXW1fxm9Gwgu2HSJK4ZPg AK2bEA1tjp4vJlxlMAwwwYbKPl9wwx/4uCji8ngRcy12ZMoOmvLtBA== =wcdN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Curt Howland wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 01 February 2007 13:52, Rick Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. I have a Sony Vaio (don't get one, the hardware is unique and substantially under-supported) PCG-GRT170 laptop, and for the support issue (extended Circuit City warrantee, used 5 or 6 times for DVD drive failures) I restored WinXP to the original 5400rpm HD after I bought myself a 7200rpm HD with better seek times, transfer rates etc, and put Unstable on that. Now if I want that last little bit of hardware debugging: Does it fail in Windows too?, I just swap HDs which isn't traumatic. It also keeps them from erasing my Linux install and putting XP back on it which they did once before I figured this trick out. Oooh, yeah! I thought of this idea also, I just never got around to implementing it. That's probably the smartest way to go, given the situation in which we find ourselves regarding hardware support... Thanks, Rick Reynolds -- Never work for a sawmill that's so behind that they don't have time to sharpen the blades. -- Will Hayes, Software Engineering Institute -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Kevin Mark writes: So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:37:15PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Kevin Mark writes: So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software. -- I and every other FLOSS person would put up a bounty to make such a disk if they would tell us what the specs were. Kind of like what greg k-h is saying about writing linux drivers for any HW. -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:04:05PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:05AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... A That seems to be a bigger issue than get a pseudo-ms-less desktop like Dell now offers. You can get it with a freedos floppy but you have to buy a box of Suse which Dell will not install or support. So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? And of course that any free OS system will just cost more. So it is less than useless to have an OS-free machine, if in order to get support from Dell or other folks, you need Winblows for them to address and fix your computer woes. You will always need winbows to get official support and to install bios updates and other things. It seems with a free os you can never recieve support from an ISP, hw manufacture, laptop maker, etc. Unless you find someone like system76, pogolinux, etc. And that is not much in the way of consumer choice. more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:37:15PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Kevin Mark writes: So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software. Again its ironic. I find that linux can spot bad hardware much easier than winblows. If there is kernel support for something and it doesn't work then I *know* it doesn't work. If windows, maybe I need a different/new driver maybe its something else, who knows? A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:31:23AM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. A Macbook. It even runs Etch, so you can setup a dual boot. There is an excellent HOWTO at wiki.debian.org. I've had mine for 8 months and I have never been happier with a computer that I owned. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:04:05PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:05AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote: It's probably worth getting a larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are not hardware related. But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned). how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is failing... A That seems to be a bigger issue than get a pseudo-ms-less desktop like Dell now offers. You can get it with a freedos floppy but you have to buy a box of Suse which Dell will not install or support. So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? And of course that any free OS system will just cost more. So it is less than useless to have an OS-free machine, if in order to get support from Dell or other folks, you need Winblows for them to address and fix your computer woes. You will always need winbows to get official support and to install bios updates and other things. It seems with a free os you can never recieve support from an ISP, hw manufacture, laptop maker, etc. Unless you find someone like system76, pogolinux, etc. And that is not much in the way of consumer choice. more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Andrew Sackville-West wrote: more and more I think I should be building and selling debian-installed computers... But would they sell ;-) I know i can count on you to buy one... A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Thursday 01 February 2007 17:51, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:31:23AM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying for Windows. A Macbook. It even runs Etch, so you can setup a dual boot. There is an excellent HOWTO at wiki.debian.org. I've had mine for 8 months and I have never been happier with a computer that I owned. Any given time, I would prefer to buy two dell laptops with the same configuration for the price of one macbook! But that's just me!!! raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- Debt Consolidation Quote Instantly Free Debt Consolidation or Debt settlement Quote Online. No... http://tags.bluebottle.com/fc/MhtYWUi3AGWY2VheFwPO0eVOYMC48CSNnoaXO/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
