Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Hi, all -- Yes, I'm back with more questions :-/ ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 08:56:37PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % % What's the minimum set that I need for, say, sarge? I don't want to have % to download 8G of mirror just to use 1/3 of it. % % You can probably use debootstrap --download-only from a real mirror to % find out. After wget-ting through about 4G of pool and then losing my connection, I tried a --download-only and got 44M in a var/lib tree that looked nothing like a pool (or sarge) directory, and 44M seems awfully small for a source tree. Obviously I'm lost again. I want to download and have locally a directory tree suitable for a fairly complete (full base system with X and compilers/interpreters; I can live with apt-getting web servers, databases, and web languages later if I must), non-network-dependent, repeatable debootstrap ... file:///path/to/tree chroot install of sarge. I very much hope that that tree can fit into 2G since that's the free space I have on my test system, but I could wipe and reformat and reinstall in order to have a bigger slice. Can I accomplish this through a wget --mirror command? If so, to what should I point? If not, can I accomplish it at all? If so, how? If not, do you hav any recommendations for doing a chroot server install at the slow end of a lousy DSL connection? % % Cheers, % % -- % Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIA HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpc9xIwFyrnc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Colin, et al -- ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 08:56:37PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % % What's the minimum set that I need for, say, sarge? I don't want to have % to download 8G of mirror just to use 1/3 of it. % % You can probably use debootstrap --download-only from a real mirror to % find out. Oooh! Hey, that's a neat one... I'm at about 2G in pool/ right now and growing; I don't know whether to stop the wget and switch to this or just continue on. Of course, my source slice on the server I'm going to build is only 2G anyway, so I could be in real trouble if this goes on much longer! % % Cheers, % % -- % Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgppx04qyWDS4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Bob -- ...and then Bob Proulx said... % % Hi David! Hi! Small world :-) [Say, did you ever see my packet-radio-question email?] % % I know that Colin Watson gave you expert advice and it seems like you That, indeed, and I hope I am. % are now moving forward. But I wanted to shift gears and ask a % different question. Okey dokey. % % David T-G wrote: % I have a trash-able SuSE system I want to use to do a chroot install % of Debian before trying it on my LFS-based server. I have extracted % the debootstrap package contents, have /mnt/suse81 ready to catch the % install, and have downloaded files to a handy /mnt/empty. % % For my first try, I pulled down 'stable' to the tune of about 1.5G and % tried % % Oh wow. 1.5GB! Do I understand that you downloaded the entire depot? Heck, I don't know; I did a wget from a mirror and that's how big 'stable' was. I note that 'sarge' is less, too. % Since you downloaded the files to the machine you are going to install % upon I know that you have networking. Which means you can do a % network install instead and only download what you need. You can do % this in a chroot and I think avoid that painful download of things % that you won't be using. All of that sounds good, except 1) I'm actually downloading to a server, not to this client, and then transferring to the client to try the debootstrap 2) Although I'm grateful to have it at all, my DSL connection sucks; not only does it take forever to download stuff anyway but it's subject to going away at any time 3) Similar but not quite the same as 2) I have in my time seen mirrors either incomplete, entirely unavailable, or just place slow 4) Since I plan to do this two or three times for practice before trusting myself to do it on (or is that 'to'?) my server, and since I want to always be sure to work from the same base, I thought it best (at at least the most time-saving!) to download once and then scp repeatedly Oh, and it doesn't help that the box doesn't serve NFS, so I can't just mount the /home/Sources/Debian tree no matter how big it is; I have to stay inside my /mnt/empty slice size as well! Now, you may be able to shoot holes in each of those issues, and I'm all for that. What I really want is a chroot-able install that I can perform on my somewhat unique server (no keyboard, no video, no CD; a 4-line LCD screen and a quad NIC, both of which I'll want to have configured so that I can see what the machine is doing and actually talk to it) currently running LFS so that I can then easily update as well as put on packages rather than having to build the world myself each time. At home I'm small enough that nothing backs up this backup server, and it's actively in use as a data repository as well as for a few services, so I'm practicing on a desktop also running a non-Debian OS so that I know what I'm doing by the time I get to the server. If only I had an LFS system to be more true to the target system -- but I ain't taking the time to build one just for that last bit of accuracy :-) % % Usually I do a debootstrap using the live network and it only needs % about 107MB to install a basic system. Then whatever else is whatever % else and a basic x86 server runs in the neighborhood of 500MB in a % practical configuration. Not bad. I'll actually want a full development web server environment including apache 1.3, php 4, mysql 3.23 plus 4.0 for playing, and the usual gcc and all the rest, as well as NFS and Samba so that it can continue to be a backup server, and I'm planning to put X on it so that I can hit its display via VNC and have some long-term work open there in addition to the day-to-day work on my desktop or [my wife's] laptop. All of that is no problem, though; / (and its various backup copies on both hard drives) is about 5G. % % The debian.org docs on this (this section written by the other Collin, [snip] Thanks for the links; I'll definitely read up. I've been working from Erik Jacobsen's doc at trilldev and Karsten's twiki doc plus the helpful pointers I got on this list a few months ago. % ... % Another very similar application is pbuilder. It uses the % bootstrapping tools to build a minimal environment for building % packages. That allows the dependencies to be completely known and % controlled. I routinely rebuild those and they only take a few % minutes. The resulting small image is around 110MB. That's pretty tight :-) % % Going back again, I downloaded about 700M in sarge and tried % % 700MB! Oh, gosh, that just seems so painful! Believe me, it is. I'm solidly stuck in the fast-good-cheap triangle... But the good news, if you could call it that, is that pool/ has jumped from 2.0G to 2.1G during my writing of this note. Now to wait with bated breath for the jump to 2.2G and beyond... % % Bob % % P.S. Welcome to Debian! Thanks :-) Here's hoping I actually get there! HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 04:43:43PM -0400, David T-G wrote: For my first try, I pulled down 'stable' to the tune of about 1.5G and tried debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose stable /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ (and also 'woody' in place of 'stable') but it puked on adduser. Can you show exactly what happened, rather than just saying it puked? Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Colin, et al -- ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 04:43:43PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % %debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose stable /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ % % (and also 'woody' in place of 'stable') but it puked on adduser. % % Can you show exactly what happened, rather than just saying it puked? Sure; sorry. I forgot that I had written this whole thing once before but *not* sent it. It's only fair to give you all of the info now :-) hp:~ # debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose sarge /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_Release I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_main_binary-i386_Packages I: Checking adduser... I: Checking apt... I: Checking apt-utils... I: Checking aptitude... I: Checking at... I: Checking base-config... I: Checking base-files... I: Checking base-passwd... ... I: Checking whiptail... I: Checking zlib1g... I: Retrieving adduser E: Couldn't download adduser hp:~ # debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose --exclude=adduser sarge /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_Release I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_main_binary-i386_Packages I: Checking apt... I: Checking apt-utils... I: Checking aptitude... I: Checking at... I: Checking base-config... I: Checking base-files... I: Checking base-passwd... ... I: Checking whiptail... I: Checking zlib1g... I: Retrieving apt E: Couldn't download apt hp:~ # du -skh /mnt/empty/dists/ 668M/mnt/empty/dists % % Cheers, % % -- % Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks again HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpEkVWsrB1MZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 09:55:59AM -0400, David T-G wrote: ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 04:43:43PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % %debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose stable /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ % % (and also 'woody' in place of 'stable') but it puked on adduser. % % Can you show exactly what happened, rather than just saying it puked? Sure; sorry. I forgot that I had written this whole thing once before but *not* sent it. It's only fair to give you all of the info now :-) hp:~ # debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose sarge /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_Release I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_sarge_main_binary-i386_Packages I: Checking adduser... I: Checking apt... I: Checking apt-utils... I: Checking aptitude... I: Checking at... I: Checking base-config... I: Checking base-files... I: Checking base-passwd... ... I: Checking whiptail... I: Checking zlib1g... I: Retrieving adduser E: Couldn't download adduser Hm, so, do you have the files in the right place? Can you check that the Filename: field for adduser in /mnt/empty/dists/sarge/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is a valid relative path from /mnt/empty to the adduser .deb? In other words, /mnt/empty/pool/main/a/adduser/adduser_3.53_all.deb should exist. Also, make sure you have wget installed. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 05:24:24PM -0400, David T-G wrote: Colin, et al -- % Filename: field for adduser in % /mnt/empty/dists/sarge/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is a valid relative % path from /mnt/empty to the adduser .deb? In other words, % /mnt/empty/pool/main/a/adduser/adduser_3.53_all.deb should exist. Aha! I don't have any such pool/ directory. I'll go and download that now. Right, you need the .debs to be in the same layout as on Debian mirrors. % Also, make sure you have wget installed. Will I need wget on a file:/// install? Sorry, brainfart there; no, you don't. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Colin, et al -- ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 09:55:59AM -0400, David T-G wrote: % %hp:~ # debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose sarge /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ ... %I: Retrieving adduser %E: Couldn't download adduser % % Hm, so, do you have the files in the right place? Can you check that the I don't know; that's why I asked what to % Filename: field for adduser in % /mnt/empty/dists/sarge/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is a valid relative % path from /mnt/empty to the adduser .deb? In other words, % /mnt/empty/pool/main/a/adduser/adduser_3.53_all.deb should exist. Aha! I don't have any such pool/ directory. I'll go and download that now. % % Also, make sure you have wget installed. Will I need wget on a file:/// install? % % Cheers, % % -- % Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks again HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpk21NRjDhKf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Colin, et al -- ...and then Colin Watson said... % % On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 05:24:24PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % % Aha! I don't have any such pool/ directory. I'll go and download that % now. % % Right, you need the .debs to be in the same layout as on Debian mirrors. What's the minimum set that I need for, say, sarge? I don't want to have to download 8G of mirror just to use 1/3 of it. % % % Also, make sure you have wget installed. % % Will I need wget on a file:/// install? % % Sorry, brainfart there; no, you don't. *whew* :-) % % Cheers, % % -- % Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpCfmT0dC1ss.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 08:56:37PM -0400, David T-G wrote: ...and then Colin Watson said... % On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 05:24:24PM -0400, David T-G wrote: % Aha! I don't have any such pool/ directory. I'll go and download that % now. % % Right, you need the .debs to be in the same layout as on Debian mirrors. What's the minimum set that I need for, say, sarge? I don't want to have to download 8G of mirror just to use 1/3 of it. You can probably use debootstrap --download-only from a real mirror to find out. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Hi David! I know that Colin Watson gave you expert advice and it seems like you are now moving forward. But I wanted to shift gears and ask a different question. David T-G wrote: I have a trash-able SuSE system I want to use to do a chroot install of Debian before trying it on my LFS-based server. I have extracted the debootstrap package contents, have /mnt/suse81 ready to catch the install, and have downloaded files to a handy /mnt/empty. For my first try, I pulled down 'stable' to the tune of about 1.5G and tried Oh wow. 1.5GB! Do I understand that you downloaded the entire depot? Since you downloaded the files to the machine you are going to install upon I know that you have networking. Which means you can do a network install instead and only download what you need. You can do this in a chroot and I think avoid that painful download of things that you won't be using. Usually I do a debootstrap using the live network and it only needs about 107MB to install a basic system. Then whatever else is whatever else and a basic x86 server runs in the neighborhood of 500MB in a practical configuration. The debian.org docs on this (this section written by the other Collin, Collin Walters, IIRC) are quite good. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s-chroot Additionally Karsten Self wrote a nice howto of related information. http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/DebianChrootInstall Some time ago Guillem Jover wrote: I've made now publicly available the script[1] I've been working on to substitute in runtime any distribution to Debian. It does not convert in the sense of mapping all previous installed packages to the Debian counterparts, but installs a base system or tarball and cleans traces from previous distribution, from there you are in a purified environment. =P http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/01/msg00313.html http://www.hadrons.org/~guillem/debian/debtakeover/ I will note that I have never used debtakeover myself. One of these days I need to give it a try. :-) Another very similar application is pbuilder. It uses the bootstrapping tools to build a minimal environment for building packages. That allows the dependencies to be completely known and controlled. I routinely rebuild those and they only take a few minutes. The resulting small image is around 110MB. Going back again, I downloaded about 700M in sarge and tried 700MB! Oh, gosh, that just seems so painful! Bob P.S. Welcome to Debian! pgprN8YYtKpsc.pgp Description: PGP signature
problems with debootstrap and stable or sarge
Hi, all -- I have a trash-able SuSE system I want to use to do a chroot install of Debian before trying it on my LFS-based server. I have extracted the debootstrap package contents, have /mnt/suse81 ready to catch the install, and have downloaded files to a handy /mnt/empty. For my first try, I pulled down 'stable' to the tune of about 1.5G and tried debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose stable /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ (and also 'woody' in place of 'stable') but it puked on adduser. So I added --exclude=adduser and it puked on apt. Sheesh. Going back again, I downloaded about 700M in sarge and tried debootstrap --arch i386 --verbose sarge /mnt/suse81 file:///mnt/empty/ with exactly the same results. What do I need to download to get myself going? TIA HAND :-D -- David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpdVcAd7hkZ6.pgp Description: PGP signature
