Re: systemd-logind emitting messages
On 09/03/2015 10:40 PM, David Niklas wrote: Hello, I forget who asked how to copy lines from their terminal (Alt-F0-9), and I know how and thought I'd share. Use gpm. On my system it's shift left-mouse to highlight and shift right-mouse to paste to your prompt. you cant then echo the output to a file, pipe, or directly into a command, etc. Someday I'll bear-hug the hacker who made it. Your welcome, David Nice! That will be a nice replacement for using screen multiplexers, redirection, piping, etc. I appreciate your posting the suggestion!
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages
David Niklas wrote: Hello, I forget who asked how to copy lines from their terminal (Alt-F0-9), and I know how and thought I'd share. Use gpm. On my system it's shift left-mouse to highlight and shift right-mouse to paste to your prompt. you cant then echo the output to a file, pipe, or directly into a command, etc. Someday I'll bear-hug the hacker who made it. Your welcome, David Gpm is an essential supertool! I don't know what I would do without it... Hugo
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages
Hello, I forget who asked how to copy lines from their terminal (Alt-F0-9), and I know how and thought I'd share. Use gpm. On my system it's shift left-mouse to highlight and shift right-mouse to paste to your prompt. you cant then echo the output to a file, pipe, or directly into a command, etc. Someday I'll bear-hug the hacker who made it. Your welcome, David
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
On 01/09/15 04:07, The Wanderer wrote: I believe that's roughly how it works, yes - and I believe rsyslog is intentionally set up that way, so that various system messages which would appear in the active console if the journal were not present will still appear there. It's just that now there are _more_ messages, which would not have existed in the absence of systemd-the-collection-of-binaries-which-orbit-the-PID1-binary. (These unambiguous names get kind of unwieldy...) "the systemd suite".
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
On 2015-09-01 at 05:15, Martin Read wrote: > On 01/09/15 04:07, The Wanderer wrote: > >> I believe that's roughly how it works, yes - and I believe rsyslog >> is intentionally set up that way, so that various system messages >> which would appear in the active console if the journal were not >> present will still appear there. It's just that now there are >> _more_ messages, which would not have existed in the absence of >> systemd-the-collection-of-binaries-which-orbit-the-PID1-binary. >> (These unambiguous names get kind of unwieldy...) > > "the systemd suite". Good suggestion; I'll try to adopt it. Thanks. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
(It just occurred to me that I posted the previous set of partial "what's happening" descriptions under the unchanged Subject line of the overall thread. Oops.) On 2015-09-01 at 09:49, Michael Biebl wrote: > Am 01.09.2015 um 15:08 schrieb The Wanderer: > >> [ 123.134567] systemd-logind[1234]: Failed to start user service: >> Unknown unit: user@1000.service > >> Note that this is on a system with only some parts of "the systemd >> suite" present, and with systemd _not_ running as PID1. (I apologize for >> not mentioning that earlier; it's been long enough since I was changing >> any related part of this laptop's config that I didn't remember the >> exact details of how I'd left it.) Specifically: >> >> $ dpkg -l "*systemd*" | grep ii >> ii libpam-systemd:amd64 224-1amd64system and servi >> ii libsystemd0:amd64 224-1amd64systemd utility >> ii libsystemd0:i386 224-1i386 systemd utility >> ii systemd 224-1amd64system and servi >> ii systemd-shim 9-1 amd64shim for systemd > > This is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756247 > > And yes, this is due to running systemd-logind under > sysvinit/systemd-shim, but not under systemd as PID 1. I remember that bug, but as far as I recall and as far as I can tell it's only about this one single line, not about the rest of the messages I'm talking about. Also, that bug report claims that this was fixed in systemd-shim upstream in November 2014, but I'm still seeing it in the version of systemd-shim which is now in Debian testing. Has the fix somehow not made it into a Debian package yet? Is there more to the story which didn't get discussed on that bug report? ...I should probably ask those types of questions _on_ the bug report, really. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
The Wanderer: Also on a mostly-cosmetic level, if you log in at a text console without systemd, you will get a certain set of messages, coming mostly from login and from your shell - but with systemd, logging in at a text console also produces a mess of extra messages coming from logind, which are largely irrelevant to whoever just logged in and which step all over either the original set of messages or the actual shell prompt. As far as I've been able to determine, there is no way to get logind to not produce these messages, without also preventing it from producing messages later - or in background logging - which you might actually want. And, if I'm interpreting the situation correctly, you will probably see these messages in your console every time _anyone_ gets a new "session" on that computer, even if it's not you. This is the final-straw behavior which led me to reject systemd for my own systems. That last part doesn't sound right. Did you do a detailed write up of what's happening, anywhere?
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
On 2015-08-31 at 11:32, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > The Wanderer: > >> Also on a mostly-cosmetic level, if you log in at a text console >> without systemd, you will get a certain set of messages, coming >> mostly from login and from your shell - but with systemd, logging >> in at a text console also produces a mess of extra messages coming >> from logind, which are largely irrelevant to whoever just logged in >> and which step all over either the original set of messages or the >> actual shell prompt. >> >> As far as I've been able to determine, there is no way to get >> logind to not produce these messages, without also preventing it >> from producing messages later - or in background logging - which >> you might actually want. And, if I'm interpreting the situation >> correctly, you will probably see these messages in your console >> every time _anyone_ gets a new "session" on that computer, even if >> it's not you. This is the final-straw behavior which led me to >> reject systemd for my own systems. > > That last part doesn't sound right. Did you do a detailed write up > of what's happening, anywhere? No, but I believe I still have my laptop configured in a way which gets this behavior. If you want, I can reboot it and do a detailed examination; I'm probably about due for a reboot of that laptop, anyway. I need to leave for work soon, however, so that won't happen before tomorrow morning at the earliest. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
The Wanderer:
No, but I believe I still have my laptop configured in a way which
gets this behavior. If you want, I can reboot it and do a detailed
examination; I'm probably about due for a reboot of that laptop, anyway.
It's mainly the final part about other people's login sessions causing
messages on unrelated terminals that is perplexing. The only mechanisms
that immediately spring to mind for that are ones like {r,}syslog
configured to take logind messages from the journal and write them to
the console, splatting over whatever kernel virtual terminal happens to
be active, which presumably you would have already thought of and checked.
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login
On 2015-08-31 at 20:37, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> The Wanderer:
>
>> No, but I believe I still have my laptop configured in a way which
>> gets this behavior. If you want, I can reboot it and do a detailed
>> examination; I'm probably about due for a reboot of that laptop,
>> anyway.
>
> It's mainly the final part about other people's login sessions
> causing messages on unrelated terminals that is perplexing.
Actually, that part is speculative on my part (and I tried to label it
that way, by saying "if I'm interpreting the situation correctly, [this
will probably happen]"); my understanding of the mechanism by which
logind dumps those messages into the console in the first place
indicates that it will dump them into any and every active text console,
so that whoever is logged in gets the notification that a new session
(or maybe that's "seat"? I'm not clear on the official terminology) has
activated.
Part of the "detailed examination" (which I do think I want to do at
some point, regardless) would be to verify, if I can, whether or not
this does happen. If it does not, then that's my bad.
> The only mechanisms that immediately spring to mind for that are ones
> like {r,}syslog configured to take logind messages from the journal
> and write them to the console, splatting over whatever kernel virtual
> terminal happens to be active, which presumably you would have
> already thought of and checked.
I believe that's roughly how it works, yes - and I believe rsyslog is
intentionally set up that way, so that various system messages which
would appear in the active console if the journal were not present will
still appear there. It's just that now there are _more_ messages, which
would not have existed in the absence of
systemd-the-collection-of-binaries-which-orbit-the-PID1-binary. (These
unambiguous names get kind of unwieldy...)
If there's a way to disable doing this for just those messages, without
disabling it for the other messages (which I do want and expect to
appear in the console, at least in some cases), I haven't found it.
--
The Wanderer, hoping he hasn't flubbed something after the long day
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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