Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
Bud Durland wrote: There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. People have right to be angry disappointed over it; but traffic on he iMail list almost seems like a knee-jerk reaction: Good lord that's a lot of money -- I'm buying something else right now. If GM decided to only make Cadillacs, does that mean your Chevy is suddenly un-drivable? Your exiting iMail installation isn't going to stop working just because your service agreement ran out. I mean, are there really any show stopper bugs in iMail right now? The problem is this.. at least in my case... 1) I am not going to renew my service agreement because I know that I will not migrate to ICS so why would I spend more money with IPSwitch? 2) Because of #1 I am putting myself in a bind because as soon as a security flaw is found (and they have existed in IMail product) then I have to either go buy a service agreement which I didn't want to do... for $495 in my case... or I can right now make the jump to SmarterMail for $200 and it has a free migration util and I can be in a perfect place again. Sure I lose Calendaring but the calendar in IMail has just been useless because it was in WebMail only so nobody was using it. I would bet that my situation is the same for others and this is a painful place to be. On the one hand you don't want to waste money, and on the other hand you want to be sure that you'll be on a secure platform so that you won't have your server taken over. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
All, We're missing one huge point and that is why purchase support agreements from Ipswitch. Let's review. 1. To get phone support. 2. To get major software updates. Everyone else keeps adding: 3. To get security hotfixes. However, #3 is incorrect: From Ipswitch.com Patches and Upgrades - Registered users for the current major version of a product may obtain patches and minor updates within that version. Upgrades to the next major version of a product are available only under warranty or Service Agreement. So, let's review the two options. 1. Phone Support -- I think I can speak for the majority of the users on this list when I say that we've probably called Ipswitch once just because we were lazy. The reality is that the users on this list (and therefore the people who are freaking out) are technically savvy and can research a configuration issue/problem without calling Ipswich. Therefore we don't need a support agreement for phone support. 2. Major Software Updates. -- There aren't going to be anymore unless you KNOW you're going to ICS which gets you a discount. So, there's really no reason to renew a support contract or to freak out. 8.13 is out and will continue to suffice the vast majority of its users for 12-36 months. That's an eternity in technology terms. The only reason to freak out is because Ipswich has pissed off their customer base by not giving people a heads up and slapping us in the fact with the price tag on a piece of software that we probably won't use. Mark --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
Markus Gufler wrote: So you're recommendation for the moment is to keep on IMail until you're ready with something else? That's really the most common sense approach, isn't it? There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. People have right to be angry disappointed over it; but traffic on he iMail list almost seems like a knee-jerk reaction: Good lord that's a lot of money -- I'm buying something else right now. If GM decided to only make Cadillacs, does that mean your Chevy is suddenly un-drivable? Your exiting iMail installation isn't going to stop working just because your service agreement ran out. I mean, are there really any show stopper bugs in iMail right now? Of course, we have a poly-chromatic equine if you are (or will be) in the market for additional server licenses. In that case, it would be prudent to look at some competitor's offerings (Verio, Merak, others). Maybe you'll even find one you like better than iMail. As for losing Declude, that's not really an issue. Even if Computerized Horizons takes 6 months to come out with an iMail independent Declude version (which I am certain they are working on), you could still use a small server running the iMail 8.xx declude that you already own as an SMTP relay for all the new boxes. Regards; -- --- Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. --- Bud Durland, CNE Mold-Rite Plastics Network Administrator http://www.mrpcap.com --- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus / Sophos AV] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. ... Yes I know that my server will not stop working a certain day only because the SA expires. But what if there will happen something like a new MS Update that I must implement but will kill imail functionality. You know this has happened and you know this can theoretically happen also tomorrow. Not to talk about the case a new vulnerability is discovered. We have several thousands mailbox users spread al around the internet. This people are paying us for the service and I fear thay will do the same thing with me as I will do with Ipswitch if it will realy become as nobody wants. In the meantime it's important that as many people as possible will place their opinion about IPSwitch's strategy because there is still no logic explanation for what they have done. What IPSwitch is doing is simply suicide, nothing else. Try to immagine you're working in a company that does the same thing as IPSwitch this days. At the moment I'm aware of what's happening I'm the first one of talking with people in my company and at least ask what they plan to do with me if the strategy will not work. I guess wife and children are not realy interested how many (or few?) customers will buy colaboration software if the income goes down or becomes zero. Markus --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
There may not be show stopper bug right now but what if a vunrability is discovered. IPSwitch will not necessarly create the patch for an older version. They may say update to ICS it does not have the vunrability??? I do not expect all IMail installations to dump IMail because of this but many of us will not renew our service agreements by being forced to upgrade. And when time comes for new features like port 587 or SPF support. Current imail admins will look for other mail server software at a more reasonable price. This is a shock to us all and in many opinions bad business on IPSwitches part. Kevin Bilbee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bud Durland Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS Markus Gufler wrote: So you're recommendation for the moment is to keep on IMail until you're ready with something else? That's really the most common sense approach, isn't it? There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. People have right to be angry disappointed over it; but traffic on he iMail list almost seems like a knee-jerk reaction: Good lord that's a lot of money -- I'm buying something else right now. If GM decided to only make Cadillacs, does that mean your Chevy is suddenly un-drivable? Your exiting iMail installation isn't going to stop working just because your service agreement ran out. I mean, are there really any show stopper bugs in iMail right now? Of course, we have a poly-chromatic equine if you are (or will be) in the market for additional server licenses. In that case, it would be prudent to look at some competitor's offerings (Verio, Merak, others). Maybe you'll even find one you like better than iMail. As for losing Declude, that's not really an issue. Even if Computerized Horizons takes 6 months to come out with an iMail independent Declude version (which I am certain they are working on), you could still use a small server running the iMail 8.xx declude that you already own as an SMTP relay for all the new boxes. Regards; -- --- Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. --- Bud Durland, CNE Mold-Rite Plastics Network Administrator http://www.mrpcap.com --- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus / Sophos AV] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
As far as a new mail server platform goes, it will be necessary for us to have something that allows you to block all non-AUTH connections and only allow specific IP addresses. We need to make sure that spammers don't bypass the gateway and do direct delivery. IMail is currently incapable of this without a product like Declude to run cleanup. IMail can't be stopped from accepting any locally addressed E-mail. It also seems that in order to keep our customers protected, it will be necessary to have virus scanning on the actual mail server and not the gateway, or at least not just the gateway. I'm confident that Postfix and Sendmail can do that, but I'm not clear on what Windows-based servers might allow for turning off unauthorized SMTP connections to hosted addresses. Having real port 587 functionality for AUTH-only and blocking port 25 connections at the router would be suitable, but it seems that while everyone is rushing to support SPF, no one (mail server companies) seems to care about port 587 AUTH-only which, IMO, is more important to push at this stage. Matt Kevin Bilbee wrote: There may not be show stopper bug right now but what if a vunrability is discovered. IPSwitch will not necessarly create the patch for an older version. They may say update to ICS it does not have the vunrability??? I do not expect all IMail installations to dump IMail because of this but many of us will not renew our service agreements by being forced to upgrade. And when time comes for new features like port 587 or SPF support. Current imail admins will look for other mail server software at a more reasonable price. This is a shock to us all and in many opinions bad business on IPSwitches part. Kevin Bilbee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bud Durland Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS Markus Gufler wrote: So you're recommendation for the moment is to keep on IMail until you're ready with something else? That's really the most common sense approach, isn't it? There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. People have right to be angry disappointed over it; but traffic on he iMail list almost seems like a knee-jerk reaction: "Good lord that's a lot of money -- I'm buying something else right now". If GM decided to only make Cadillacs, does that mean your Chevy is suddenly un-drivable? Your exiting iMail installation isn't going to stop working just because your service agreement ran out. I mean, are there really any "show stopper" bugs in iMail right now? Of course, we have a poly-chromatic equine if you are (or will be) in the market for additional server licenses. In that case, it would be prudent to look at some competitor's offerings (Verio, Merak, others). Maybe you'll even find one you like better than iMail. As for losing Declude, that's not really an issue. Even if Computerized Horizons takes 6 months to come out with an iMail independent Declude version (which I am certain they are working on), you could still use a small server running the iMail 8.xx declude that you already own as an SMTP relay for all the new boxes. Regards; -- --- Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. --- Bud Durland, CNE Mold-Rite Plastics Network Administrator http://www.mrpcap.com --- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus / Sophos AV] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
Re: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS
That is exactly the point, and in my experience with Ipswitch when a fix is found they just ask to upgrade to their newest version rather than updating their older releases. Now this worked fine for us in the old days (i.e. prior to ICS). So let us assume that in February 2005 I have a 1) valid Imail service agreement and 2) I patch my server with a Windows hotfix which breaks something in Imail. Now what will Ipswitch do? A) Release a fix or B) ask us to upgrade to ICS. That is the issue and that is why the high level of concern. Of course things will work, until they break and that is why you want to be working on a platform that still is actively being supported. So if email is a critical component of your business, which I assume it is, then I suggest you either decide to upgrade sooner or later or look for an alternative to Imail. Personally we have made our decision to move away from Imail and are evaluating other products. Mailenable and Smarterools both have a migration util, I actually demo'd the SmarterTools migration util and works great so we will see... PV - Original Message - From: Markus Gufler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: RE: CBL:RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Ipswitch ICS There's been an almost hysterical reaction to the ICS announcement. ... Yes I know that my server will not stop working a certain day only because the SA expires. But what if there will happen something like a new MS Update that I must implement but will kill imail functionality. You know this has happened and you know this can theoretically happen also tomorrow. Not to talk about the case a new vulnerability is discovered. We have several thousands mailbox users spread al around the internet. This people are paying us for the service and I fear thay will do the same thing with me as I will do with Ipswitch if it will realy become as nobody wants. In the meantime it's important that as many people as possible will place their opinion about IPSwitch's strategy because there is still no logic explanation for what they have done. What IPSwitch is doing is simply suicide, nothing else. Try to immagine you're working in a company that does the same thing as IPSwitch this days. At the moment I'm aware of what's happening I'm the first one of talking with people in my company and at least ask what they plan to do with me if the strategy will not work. I guess wife and children are not realy interested how many (or few?) customers will buy colaboration software if the income goes down or becomes zero. Markus --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
