Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)

[Marcus]

Am 09/07/2016 10:15 PM, schrieb Marcus:

Am 09/07/2016 09:56 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:02
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE:
What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)

Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:

[ ... ]

3d. My second question is, why is

not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at

<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-

site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was
created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made
as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage,
and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me.

Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it

not be deleted from the current SVN trunk?

My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the

opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could
be handled in what appears to be the standard way.

I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision
then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this
project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-)

I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and
just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the
years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be
one of this fuzziness.

In order to anticipate your next question:

Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the
"xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and
integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached
in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to
speak in English only.

[orcmid]

Great! I think that would be a better way forward.


to start a bit easier I would first copy & paste the content from
"get-involved.html". Put the - now known - main problems and
requirements first und put thinks like donation at the bottom. And then
add new things into the right order.

If there is no volunteer faster, then I will start beginning or at the
weekend.


on a second look the both pages [1] and [2] are very similar. So, I have 
updated just a few things and kept them equal. If there is more to do 
just give me a hint.


[1] http://www.openoffice.org/xx/participate/index.html
[2] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html

Marcus

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Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)

[Marcus]

Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:34
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:

[ ... ]
[orcmid]

Forget about http://helpwanted.apache.org for the moment.  I think I know what 
is required there.


   3. I did look at putting something on the

current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html>   page.


Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on

openoffice.org.  My error.  That explains why ooo-site does not have any
get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and
the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to
support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we
appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and
volunteer their time and expertise with the project."


Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org>   to break out of the

localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to
what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>?

I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know
when, maybe ever.

It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are
recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@
list.  That separation puzzles me.

This is not a special thing. It's just a translation of the English
"get_involved" webpage.

I'm sorry but I still don't know what you really want to do.

[orcmid]

Let me restate my question.

3a.  I 
found<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/site/trunk/content/get-involved.mdtext>
  once I realized I was looking in the wrong place.  I get that the page was created 
in June 2011 by robweir and was last updated in 2012 and then again in 2015 when the 
link to a standalone German page was added.

3b. The adjacent German page was created on my birthday in January, 2015, by 
joesch.

3c. My first question is why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/contibuting>, the 
material at
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html>
  used?  If that is obsolete, should we not deleted that folder from the current SVN 
trunk?

3d. My second question is, why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, 
the material at
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext>
  used.  That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of 
fixes made as recently as 2014.  This xx area is perfect for localization usage, and 
would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me.
   Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be 
deleted from the current SVN trunk?
   My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for 
localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what 
appears to be the standard way.


I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision 
then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this 
project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-)


I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and 
just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the 
years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be 
one of this fuzziness.


In order to anticipate your next question:

Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the 
"xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and 
integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached 
in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to 
speak in English only.


Marcus


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ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:34
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
[ ... ]
[orcmid] 

Forget about http://helpwanted.apache.org for the moment.  I think I know what 
is required there.

> >   3. I did look at putting something on the
> current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html>  page.
> >
> > Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on
> openoffice.org.  My error.  That explains why ooo-site does not have any
> get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and
> the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to
> support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we
> appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and
> volunteer their time and expertise with the project."
> >
> > Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org>  to break out of the
> localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to
> what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>?
> 
> I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know
> when, maybe ever.
> 
> It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are
> recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@
> list.  That separation puzzles me.
> 
> This is not a special thing. It's just a translation of the English
> "get_involved" webpage.
> 
> I'm sorry but I still don't know what you really want to do.
[orcmid] 

Let me restate my question.

3a.  I found 
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/site/trunk/content/get-involved.mdtext>
 once I realized I was looking in the wrong place.  I get that the page was 
created in June 2011 by robweir and was last updated in 2012 and then again in 
2015 when the link to a standalone German page was added.

3b. The adjacent German page was created on my birthday in January, 2015, by 
joesch.  

3c. My first question is why is not <http://www.openoffice.org/contibuting>, 
the material at 
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html>
 used?  If that is obsolete, should we not deleted that folder from the current 
SVN trunk?  

3d. My second question is, why is not <http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, 
the material at
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext>
 used.  That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been 
part of fixes made as recently as 2014.  This xx area is perfect for 
localization usage, and would allow others to create localized versions, it 
seems to me.  
  Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be 
deleted from the current SVN trunk?
  My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for 
localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what 
appears to be the standard way.  
  
What is the barrier?






> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:




-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?




-Original Message-
From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[ ... ]

Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted

on

it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can
then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can

be

focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other

places

among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted

item

provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
find details enough to decide how to contribute.

Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.

I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I

will

dig into that too.

[orcmid]

I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download

page.  It does not fit will with that.

you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)


I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its

own.

The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a
point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for
this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.

Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage
[1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.


It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted

tasks can be lengthy.


I am going to stop looking into that for now.


Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act
to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working
like it is now? Any points to reasons?

[1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html


[orcmid]

I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code.  It helped me 
understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that 
the web site depends so much on.  I wanted to discern the principles and then 
keep faith with them.

  1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help 
Wanted" block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page 
that has it on the live site).  The reason that I did not propose it is the widget does 
not look good that way.  A better widget using the current source of the data would be 
needed.  That becomes a more-involved dev-community activity and I was not prepared to go 
there.  Also, help-wanted widget is still experimental and we might run into maintenance 
issues as there is more development of the widget.

  2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be customized to show just 
"openoffice" items.  I added one to confirm that works.  However, it appears that the 
widget does the equivalent of "show me everything" which is why it should be on a 
separate page.  The list could become rather long.

We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, 
but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks 
who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects.  Before we do any 
of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks.

  3. I did look at putting something on the 
current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html>  page.

Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org.  My error.  That 
explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in 
Deutsch" line and the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to 
support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we appreciate every contribution), 
some users want to get more involved and volunteer their time and expertise with the project."

Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org>  to break out of the localization model and link 
"I want to participate in OpenOffice" to what we call the project 
site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>?


I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know 
when, maybe ever.


It also crea

RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> > [ ... ]
> >> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted
> on
> >> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can
> >> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
> >> assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can
> be
> >> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other
> places
> >> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted
> item
> >> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
> >> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
> >> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
> >>
> >> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
> >>
> >> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I
> will
> >> dig into that too.
> > [orcmid]
> >
> > I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download
> page.  It does not fit will with that.
> 
> you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
> works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)
> 
> > I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its
> own.
> 
> The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a
> point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for
> this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.
> 
> Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage
> [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.
> 
> > It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted
> tasks can be lengthy.
> >
> > I am going to stop looking into that for now.
> 
> Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act
> to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working
> like it is now? Any points to reasons?
> 
> [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
> 
[orcmid] 

I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code.  It helped me 
understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that 
the web site depends so much on.  I wanted to discern the principles and then 
keep faith with them.

 1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help Wanted" 
block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page 
that has it on the live site).  The reason that I did not propose it is the 
widget does not look good that way.  A better widget using the current source 
of the data would be needed.  That becomes a more-involved dev-community 
activity and I was not prepared to go there.  Also, help-wanted widget is still 
experimental and we might run into maintenance issues as there is more 
development of the widget.

 2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be 
customized to show just "openoffice" items.  I added one to confirm that works. 
 However, it appears that the widget does the equivalent of "show me 
everything" which is why it should be on a separate page.  The list could 
become rather long.  

We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, 
but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks 
who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects.  Before we do any 
of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks.

 3. I did look at putting something on the current 
<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page.

Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on 
openoffice.org.  My error.  That explains why ooo-site does not have any 
get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the 
sentence &quo

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Xen]

Marcus schreef op 04-09-2016 11:09:


you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)


How common is not that experience ;-).

For some reason in Linux (or in general) we assume or we are given 
reasons to believe that people will not answer our calls when we ask for 
help, and we do ask for help (often in frustration) people send us into 
the woods or say that we need to find the answer on our own (for 
instance by reading help pages better) and so we assume and regret the 
fact that it is unlikely a question will simply be answered.


So we plough on in despair and work hard to find the answer that someone 
else already has (but sometimes refuses to give ;-)). And then when 
someone says "you can just ask" we are flabbergasted because most of the 
time we are told the opposite


How strange a gesture of friendliness in this world.

How strange a gesture of friendliness.


But I suggest you do not focus solely on acquiring more volunteers or 
workers or developers.


What you need is to put forth a vision that will attract those people. 
Do not try to attract them yourself, let the vision attract them.


After all, you seek to inspire those people right? Inspiration is like 
the opposite of transpiration: it gives energy. Maybe it is the opposite 
of expiration you don't want the project to expire, so you need to 
inspire people.


I mean, start by positioning Apache OpenOffice in a way that gives it 
new life.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

We still need PackageMaker, from what I can tell, which is
really, really deprecated. Has anyone tried porting that
function to Packages or OSX's own pkgbuild?

But yes, I do have PackageMaker installed and worked around
the hardcoded path in configure... Why it does a strings on epm
and looks for a hardcoded path is beyond me. :)

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
>> configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits...
> 
> For epm you have two options:
> 
> - use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball
> 
> - build you own epm based on that very same version and
>  with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm
> 
> 
> These are my configure options:
> 
> ./configure \
> --with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \
> --enable-verbose \
> --enable-crashdump=yes  \
> --enable-wiki-publisher  \
> --with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2
>  \
> --with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \
> --enable-category-b \
> --enable-bundled-dictionaries \
> --with-package-format="installed dmg" \
> --with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home
>  \
> --with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \
> --with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \
> --disable-systray \
> --without-junit
> 
> My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew,
> thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in
> order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even
> update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl,
> that comes with everything out of the box.
> 
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:




-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?




-Original Message-
From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[ ... ]

I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
"AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
developers, especially C++ programmers."

I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
complicate that message.

I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org,
just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
an e-mail to recruitment@

[orcmid]

We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need
moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
what to do with the offers.

Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on
it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can
then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can be
focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places
among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item
provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
find details enough to decide how to contribute.

Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.

I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will
dig into that too.

[orcmid]

I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page.  It 
does not fit will with that.


you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it 
works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)



I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own.


The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a 
point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for 
this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.


Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage 
[1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.



It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can 
be lengthy.

I am going to stop looking into that for now.


Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act 
to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working 
like it is now? Any points to reasons?


[1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html

Marcus


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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
[ ... ]
> > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> > "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> > developers, especially C++ programmers."
> >
> > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> > complicate that message.
> >
> > I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org,
> > just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> > start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> > an e-mail to recruitment@
> [orcmid]
> 
> We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need
> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
> what to do with the offers.
> 
> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on
> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can
> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
> assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can be
> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places
> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item
> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
> 
> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
> 
> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will
> dig into that too.
[orcmid] 

I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page.  It 
does not fit will with that.

I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own.

It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can 
be lengthy.

I am going to stop looking into that for now.

> 
>  - Dennis


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

Hi Jim,

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
> configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits...

For epm you have two options:

- use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball

- build you own epm based on that very same version and
  with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm


These are my configure options:

./configure \
--with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \
--enable-verbose \
--enable-crashdump=yes  \
--enable-wiki-publisher  \
--with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2
 \
--with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \
--enable-category-b \
--enable-bundled-dictionaries \
--with-package-format="installed dmg" \
--with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home 
\
--with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \
--with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \
--disable-systray \
--without-junit

My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew,
thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in
order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even
update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl,
that comes with everything out of the box.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits...

Taking notes and will send patches in.
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
>> 
>> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
> 
> I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
> apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1714089
> because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099
> 
> @Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Keith N. McKenna]

Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
> 
I have added a note to the page stating that it is deprecated along with
a link to the newer page.

Regards
Keith

> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> According to 
>>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>>>  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>>>  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>>>  o OSX 10.4 SDK
>>
>> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
>> OpenOffice 4.0"?
>>
>> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>>
>> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
>>
>>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
>>
>> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and 
>> moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer 
>> applies now.
>>
>>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>>> w/ Xcode 7?
>>
>> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday 
>> is this one:
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
>> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) 
>> that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but 
>> not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of 
>> XCode, for that matter).
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Andrea.
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>




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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
> 
> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?

I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1714089
because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099

@Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?



Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.

So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> According to 
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>>  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>>  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>>  o OSX 10.4 SDK
> 
> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
> OpenOffice 4.0"?
> 
> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
> 
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
> 
> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
> 
>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
> 
> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and 
> moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer 
> applies now.
> 
>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>> w/ Xcode 7?
> 
> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday 
> is this one:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) 
> that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but 
> not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, 
> for that matter).
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
> -
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Let me check.

FWIW, I have now a 10.7 guest running on my MacPro via VMware Fusion.
I am the legal licensee of that version as well.

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> It works on VMware VHosts too.
> 
> Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that 
> could help grant a special license from Apple?
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
>> allows for it. And it works.
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>>> another
>>> OS do they?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>> 
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
 
 I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
 found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
 building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
 of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
 more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
 
 For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
 ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
 upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
 
 The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
 development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
 more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
 
 
 
 
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
> hardware
> is PC based, running Linux.
> 
> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
> 
> http://www.macincloud.com/
> 
> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
> 
> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> 
>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>> 
>> On your own hardware:
>> 
>> Repeat:
>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>> Fix the error messages you get;
>> Write notes about what you did;
>> Test the program functionality;
>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>> 
>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>> 
>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> 
>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>> 
>> jonathon
>> 
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 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
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>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Please be aware that the board does not "stick its nose" into the
daily operations of a project. The current status of AOO came to
the boards attention via the required PMC reports as well as
other communications. It was only because of that that the board
got involved.


> On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process 
> properly prepared.
> 
> Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project.
>> 
>> My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and
>> effectively to security reports.
>> 
>> Marvin Humphrey
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jim Jagielski wrote:

According to 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
  o OSX 10.4 SDK


Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
OpenOffice 4.0"?


You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX

and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.


From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.


The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC 
(and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no 
longer applies now.



The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
w/ Xcode 7?


The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy 
yesterday is this one:

http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log 
files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the 
latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any 
version of XCode, for that matter).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Xen]

Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about 
what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want 
this

project to
continue moving forward.


What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we 
could

be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a 
positive

direction?



How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...



Phil




I just want to give you my impression.

For what OpenOffice needs to begin with.

1) rename it to ApacheOffice
2) keep the intellecutal property (of the name) but release it after a 
while (maybe 10 years in full)
3) Focus on user interface beauty and essential features that don't work 
right, but should (no feature expansion, only feature improvement)

4) Disallow LibreOffice from taking in improvements and/or commits
5) Appear it as if you are starting a new product (call it a restart)
6) Change the binary names from soffice etc. (the star office remnant) 
to something more modern (such as openoffice or aoffice or 
apacheoffice).
7) Focus (again) on user interface improvements to make it 'compete' 
with e.g. Google Docs (or LO itself)
8) Disregard compatibility issues for a while but focus on only two 
things: compatibility with the most popular MS Office version to date 
(or currently) and compability with one office suite on Linux of choice 
(Calligra and LibreOffice/OpenOffice are not compatible) -- disregard 
all the rest.


9) Focus on introducing a form of interoperabolity with Google and 
Microsoft cloud (Google Drive and Microsoft OneDrive) that will make 
*their* (desktop) clients irrelevant in a way.


You cannot use Microsoft Office 365 from the web. You need a client for 
that. This is either Windows or Mac or Android or iPhone or whatever. If 
you can provide an alternate client you become something that can in the 
future expand to its own platform, even if it doesn't feel entirely 
right.


10) Ensure printing works perfectly, PDF writing works perfectly, and 
introduce a few more PDF features such as integrating PDF documents into 
an existing PDF, a little bit of editing. Become that tool. Suppose 
someone has printed 3 separate PDFs and now wants to combine them into 
one document. Enable that feature, provide that tool.


11) Again, make sure the interface is attractive (no black border around 
a page, use shadows).


12) Try to see if any kind of interoperability or co-working or shared 
goals with Mozilla "BlueGriffon" could exist. BlueGriffon is the only 
available HTML editor that is to my mind usable enough and also free, in 
that sense.


Some of these things may seem like you'd be begging for approval or 
becoming a lesser thing because you submit yourself to the platform of 
another person or entity.


But I'm just speaking out of a sense of what would be popular.

1) Having your program as a tool that can do stuff no other tools can 
(such as PDF combining, and subscribing/logging into Microsoft and 
Google cloud) instantly transforms it into something valuable to have 
around


2) If your interoperability with the Microsoft and/or Google formats is 
excellent (Google Docs can export to Microsoft) people will also want to 
have your tool around because they wouldn't be so dependent on the 
existing tools (and platforms)


3) This is particularly helpful for non-tablet users. People who still 
use desktops are often not served or serviced by existing developments 
on the tablet/android/iphone market.


LibreOffice can continue being that Linux desktop powerhouse for all it 
wants. Linux is not popular and hard to use no matter how much Ubuntu is 
trying to get that to change. People are not safe on Linux. I am not 
safe on Linux and I know almost everything.


I would suggest being a little sneaky and borrowing from the popularity 
of Microsoft and Google cloud platforms. Become a client and become 
compatible with either LibreOffice or Calligra in your native format. 
That means losing your identity as a separate, own thing. You become the 
glue that ties a lot of things together.


Personally I would suggest using Calligra but its program is rather poor 
in quality to this day.


Nevertheless it is all ODT and it is the small things that can render a 
document unusable (such as bulleting completely changing between saves).


So it would mean choosing either LibreOffice or Calligra as your source 
of what your own document format should be. So you lose your own sense 
of identity in being a leader in this area.


The moment OpenOffice becomes that tool that people can use to use 
Microsoft OneDrive or Google Docs, every linux distribution will want to 
have it on board.


If you change your binary executable names, no one will be offended by 
its install.


If there is a sense of interoperability between it and BlueGriffon, in 
terms of 

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

It works on VMware VHosts too.

Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could 
help grant a special license from Apple?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
> allows for it. And it works.
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
>> 
>> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>> another
>> OS do they?
>> 
>> 
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>> 
>>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>> 
>>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
 
 Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
 hardware
 is PC based, running Linux.
 
 I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
 
 http://www.macincloud.com/
 
 Anybody have any experience with something like that?
 
 
 Phil
 
 
 This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
 
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
 
 On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
> 
> On your own hardware:
> 
> Repeat:
>  Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>  Fix the error messages you get;
>  Write notes about what you did;
>  Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
> 
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
> 
> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
> 
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
> 
> jonathon
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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> 
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

According to 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX

 o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
 o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
 o OSX 10.4 SDK

From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.

The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
w/ Xcode 7? I have a copy of the SDK and use the attached script
to fold older SDKs in, but starting w/ Xcode7, it doesn't like it.

S if, in fact, someone was able to *build* AOO on a recent (10.10
or 10.11) version of OSX and Xcode7, documenting that stuff on the
above wiki page would be very, very useful.


> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:10 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
>> checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
>> has such a beast laying around.
> 
> When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean?
> 
> OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months earlier.
> 
> I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need the 
> link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted it into 
> another conversation.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
allows for it. And it works.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
> another
> OS do they?
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>> 
>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>> 
>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> 
>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>> hardware
>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>> 
>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>> 
>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
 
 What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
> 
 
 On your own hardware:
 
 Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
 Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
 
 Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
 
 How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> 
 response to the "retirement" discussion?
 
 At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
 before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
 
 jonathon
 
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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
 
 
>>> 
>> -
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Thank you for the initiative.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote:
>> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
>>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
>> 
>> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
>> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
>> exchange one, then I would help.
> 
> It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best
> way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs
> developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible.
> 
> Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to
> settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time
> zones irrelevant.
> 
> -
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> 

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.


that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have 
already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to 
exchange one, then I would help.


Marcus




On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:

I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.

Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Patricia Shanahan 
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700

Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?

Alternative volunteer for moderator?

On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours,
visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
Andrea.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that 
happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.


On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:

I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.

Regards
Dave

 Original Message  
From: Patricia Shanahan 
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700

Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?

Alternative volunteer for moderator?

On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
  Andrea.




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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jorg Schmidt]

> From: Bruce Byfield [mailto:bbyfi...@axion.net] 

> I would suggest that the question goes beyond marketing. It is about 
> purpose as well. What makes AOO worth spending time on, as opposed to 
> any other similar project?

It is the high quality and practical significance.

OK, at the moment there are some problems, _but the intervention of Apache also
shows that we are properly organized, we have a functioning quality management_.

The update cycles are possibly a little too long, but not much. The right update
cycle for commercial users, should be between 12-18 months are (necessary 
security
updates in addition)

> For that matter ask why people have NOT chosen AOO. 

Most people use AOO, LO is strong only on Linux. AOO to dominate under MS 
Windows,
and there are >90% of all office users (AOO, LO, MS Office, etc.)

> But why, for example, is AOO 
> almost totally 
> unrepresented in ODF Authors, 

For the German community, I can say that we edit the German-language 
documentation
OO under the direction to the PrOOo box (www.prooo-box.org).
3 people working there permanently(!) at the german documentation, and currently
employs a total of 5 people at the german documentation.

You can see here our recent public email about documentation:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-users-de/201608.mbox/%3C005e01
d1fd3d%2481d13960%248573ac20%24%40wienandt.de%3E


Note:
the PrOOo box is formally a third-party-Project, but the workers there are also
German community members of AOO.



Jorg


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Barton]

I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.

Regards
Dave

 Original Message  
From: Patricia Shanahan 
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700
> Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
> 
> Alternative volunteer for moderator?
> 
> On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>>
>> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
>> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>>
>> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
>> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
>> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>>
>>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>>> an appeal for developers.
>>
>> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
>> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>   Andrea.



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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

I have requested creation of the mailing list, with Andrea and myself as 
moderators.


On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Bruce Byfield]

On September 3, 2016 12:38:56 AM toki wrote:
>On 02/09/2016 19:06, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>>> What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like
>
>LibreOffice cannot?
>
>> That is not an important question:
>In terms of marketing that is the only question that is relevant.
>It doesn't matter if you are trying to get more developers, or trying
>to get more corporations to use AOo, or trying to get more individual
>users to use AOo.

I would suggest that the question goes beyond marketing. It is about 
purpose as well. What makes AOO worth spending time on, as opposed to 
any other similar project?

Perhaps you might start by asking those who have been involved in AOO 
and OpenOffice.org what attracted them in the past, and why or why not 
the same attractions still exist.

For that matter ask why people have NOT chosen AOO. I know that could 
get contentious, of course. But why, for example, is AOO almost totally 
unrepresented in ODF Authors, when much of its work applies as much to 
AOO as any project?

-- 
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[toki]

On 02/09/2016 19:06, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

>> What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like
LibreOffice cannot?

> That is not an important question:

In terms of marketing that is the only question that is relevant.
It doesn't matter if you are trying to get more developers, or trying to
get more corporations to use AOo, or trying to get more individual users
to use AOo.

> The question is indeed what we want OpenOffice to be.

That would be the second question.
Part of the answer to that question, is a derivative of the first question.

> They may not necessarily want a green thing with different GUI and
different behaviour.

AOo can do roughly a dozen things, that LibO can not do. I'd be
surprised if as many as 0.01% of both the developer base, and the
user base of either program, could list those things.

The odds are that Joe Random User won't even notice the absence of those
12 things.

jonathon

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?


We have no options here. Archives have to be public for this kind of 
lists (ASF archives are never really private, but this is another matter).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jim Jagielski wrote:

The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
has such a beast laying around.


When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean?

OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months 
earlier.


I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need 
the link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted 
it into another conversation.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?

Alternative volunteer for moderator?

On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Do we understand the reason for the old version of OSX etc.?

On 9/2/2016 3:48 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:

The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
has such a beast laying around.

I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult
finding all the bits and pieces.

There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve
as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or
we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself.


On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:

On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?


On your own hardware:

Repeat:
  Build a Mac OS X Binary;
  Fix the error messages you get;
  Write notes about what you did;
  Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;

Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.


How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in

response to the "retirement" discussion?

At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.

jonathon

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
has such a beast laying around.

I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult
finding all the bits and pieces.

There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve
as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or
we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
> 
> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?  
> 
> On your own hardware:
> 
> Repeat:
>   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>   Fix the error messages you get;
>   Write notes about what you did;
>   Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
> 
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
> 
>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
> 
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
> 
> jonathon
> 
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and 
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.


You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be 
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail 
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).



to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility 
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/2/2016 10:37 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:


On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:




-Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan
[mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To:
dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice
NON-retirement involve?

...

I would like a special mailing list
recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and
organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to
recruitment@

[orcmid]

We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need
moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
what to do with the offers.


I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that
works would depend on how many volunteers we get.


If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? I want
to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Hagar Delest]

Message posted on the EN forum: 
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49=84952

If you need the message to be changed, don't hesitate, I can edit it.

Hagar


Le 02/09/2016 à 18:25, Patricia Shanahan a écrit :

On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.

What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?

How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...


The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that 
AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers.

I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at 
serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ 
programmers."

I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate 
that message.

I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for 
signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, 
especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@

The message should go out every way it can:

us...@openoffice.apache.org
OpenOffice forums
Press release
memb...@apache.org
d...@community.apache.org

We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to 
state the risk of shut down.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dr. Michael Stehmann]

Am 02.09.2016 um 16:59 schrieb Phillip Rhodes:

> 
> What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
> be
> working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
> direction?
> 
As I wrote before: If we want to recruit new developer, we need a
contact person and mentors.

And we need the next release - so we need a release manager.

Kind regards
Michael




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Marcus  wrote:
>
>
>> The bad things are:
> - we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version.
> - we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac.
> - we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual
>   machine)
> - we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac
> - and we need new devs in general
>
>
OK, something I've never been clear on.  Does the ASF Infrastructure team
provide machines to build
on, or is it entirely up to us to get builds built "however"?  If the
former, is there something we need from them today that we don't have?  If
the latter, could this project acquire hardware and have it put in a colo
center or something, so
we have access to what we need?  Or can we rent time in a cloud environment
somewhere?

Sorry for all the uninformed questions, I've just been really out of the
loop for a while.  :-(




> And the best thing is:
> We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved
> functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road.
>
> Radical!  Well that's something to be cheerful about anyway.



> This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only
> with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings.  With a big porton of
> sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come home from work, find my
> inbox exploded and read about a good friend who has left the project due to
> this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-(
>
>
> Understood.  No need to apologize for anything.



Phil
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/02/2016 04:59 PM, schrieb Phillip Rhodes:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.


hm, I can only hope that it the *very* most of us. ;-)


What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?


*In my eyes* it's pretty simple:

We need a new release to proof that we can survice as an Apache TLP.

The bad things are:
- we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version.
- we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac.
- we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual
  machine)
- we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac
- and we need new devs in general

But there are already good things:
- we have a few devs who can build on Linux
- we have a few devs who can work on Linux problems
- we have our buildbots in a more stable way compared with the past
  months (not at 100% but we are working on it)


And the best thing is:
We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved 
functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road.



How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
  etc...


You should answer to this FUD when:
- you want to fight against all bad things that where written.
- you want to give everyone an answer.
- you have too much time and don't know what to do.
- you want to go to hospital due to a mental disorder which will come
  quicker than you want.

You should *not* answer them when you want to get a different impression 
into the people's head.


This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only 
with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings.


With a big porton of sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come 
home from work, find my inbox exploded and read about a good friend who 
has left the project due to this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-(


Marcus


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process 
properly prepared.

Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni  wrote: 
>> 
>> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project.
> 
> My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and
> effectively to security reports.
> 
> Marvin Humphrey
> 
> -
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/02/2016 06:25 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
this
project to
continue moving forward.

What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?

How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
etc...


The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk
that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its
remaining developers.

I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
"AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
developers, especially C++ programmers."

I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
complicate that message.

I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org,
just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
an e-mail to recruitment@

The message should go out every way it can:

us...@openoffice.apache.org
OpenOffice forums
Press release
memb...@apache.org
d...@community.apache.org

We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
developers to state the risk of shut down.


if you have some more ideas let me know. This is a point we can get 
quite quickly published.


Marcus


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marvin Humphrey]

On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni  wrote: 

> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project.

My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and
effectively to security reports.

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Awesome. These are the kinds of questions that should energize the project. 
Base is a problem, but there are many Java bridges that can be plugged if we 
open up the configuration.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:

>> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
>> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
>> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
> 
> That's a good question.  The one obvious thing, which matters to some
> people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".
> 
> From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
> somebody else couldn't do - in principle.   However, different projects can
> evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
> developers.  What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
> some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
> which largely revolves around the ASF anyway.  This obviously applies
> mainly to Calc.  But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
> share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc.   I'd
> also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
> party languages like R.  Integration with Arrow is something that could be
> interesting.   And something that was talked about a while back, but I
> think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
> integration into AOO.  I'd still like to see us do some things there.
> 
> Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
> LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
> (which they're welcome to do).  But maybe they'll decide their interests
> are elsewhere and choose not to.  Who knows?
> 
> 
> Phil


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[toki]

On 02/09/2016 17:21, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

>> a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. 
> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, 

Yes.

>and doing so in a reasonable period of time?

That depends upon what the user considers "reasonable".

For full fledged development, I think it is inadequate, simply because
of the time it will take to build AOo. As a test bed machine, it is
adequate.

jonathon

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
>

That's a good question.  The one obvious thing, which matters to some
people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".

>From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
somebody else couldn't do - in principle.   However, different projects can
evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
developers.  What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
which largely revolves around the ASF anyway.  This obviously applies
mainly to Calc.  But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc.   I'd
also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
party languages like R.  Integration with Arrow is something that could be
interesting.   And something that was talked about a while back, but I
think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
integration into AOO.  I'd still like to see us do some things there.

Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
(which they're welcome to do).  But maybe they'll decide their interests
are elsewhere and choose not to.  Who knows?


Phil

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Bruce Byfield]

On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us
>want this project to
>continue moving forward.
>
>What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we
>could be
>working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>positive direction?
>
>How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
>already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> etc...

If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you 
need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related 
projects like LibreOffice cannot?

(And, incidentally, although I'm a journalist, I am notabout to announc 
that AOO is shutting down. A couple of years ago, the project looked 
shaky, yet it managed to survive. The thread is fascinating, but 
obviously speculative at this point).

-- 
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Brondsema]

On 9/2/16 12:25 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
>> be
>> working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
>> direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>  etc...
> 
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that
> AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining
> developers.
> 
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is
> at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially
> C++ programmers."

IMO yes, this is a good tactic.  Since the news is getting public, best to
embrace it.

> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate
> that message.
> 
> I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just 
> for
> signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
> especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to 
> recruitment@
> 
> The message should go out every way it can:
> 
> us...@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> memb...@apache.org
> d...@community.apache.org

As stated on the other thread, SourceForge could run messaging as well, to help
get the word out.  Best for the PMC to craft the content of course, but SF could
run it on many places if desired.  E.g. newsletter, announcement banner on
developer pages, social media, etc.  Lots of options.

> 
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to
> state the risk of shut down.
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



-- 
Dave Brondsema : d...@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
  <><

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

Doing some reading, it looks like it may indeed be possible to run OS X on
VirtualBox at least under Windows (not sure about Linux).   If so, I might
be willing to spend some money on an EC2 instance to do Mac builds,
especially if it doesn't need to be up 24x7.

Question:  Does the ASF have any Mac hardware for doing Mac builds?  Or is
everything Mac related left to being done on individual developer machines?


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple desktop,
> the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the first time I
> tried one.
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> No doubt.  My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
>> everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
>> ecosystem.  I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to
>> help
>> with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
>> spend.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

 Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac
 Mini

> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
> less
> than 10 months of macincloud.
>
>


 Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so
 in
 a
 reasonable period of time?


>>> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
>>> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with
>>> more
>>> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -
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>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:




-Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan
[mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To:
dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice
NON-retirement involve?

On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically
about

what

needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us
want

this

project to continue moving forward.

What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things
we

could

be working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things
in a

positive

direction?

How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD
that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement"
discussion? etc...


The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the
risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best
efforts of its remaining developers.

[orcmid]

I think that is a great approach, Patricia.



I would like to see every possible medium used to present one
message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more
volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers."

I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
complicate that message.

I would like a special mailing list
recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and
organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to
recruitment@

[orcmid]

We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need
moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
what to do with the offers.


I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that 
works would depend on how many volunteers we get.




Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted
on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We
can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests
for assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these
can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in
other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the
Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements
and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the
interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to
contribute.

Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.

I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I
will dig into that too.

- Dennis




The message should go out every way it can:

us...@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release
memb...@apache.org d...@community.apache.org

We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
developers to state the risk of shut down.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple 
desktop, the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the 
first time I tried one.


On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

No doubt.  My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
ecosystem.  I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help
with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
spend.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:




On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini

with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
less
than 10 months of macincloud.





Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in
a
reasonable period of time?



I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more
cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

No doubt.  My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
ecosystem.  I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help
with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
spend.


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>
>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>> less
>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in
>> a
>> reasonable period of time?
>>
>
> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more
> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less
than 10 months of macincloud.




Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a
reasonable period of time?


I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If 
I were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with 
more cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less
> than 10 months of macincloud.



Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a
reasonable period of time?


Phil

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac 
Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That 
is less than 10 months of macincloud.


On 9/2/2016 10:11 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
another
OS do they?


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
more than a Mac Mini over a few months.

For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.

The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
more powerful Macs and manage it directly.




On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.

I wonder if it would work to use something like this:

http://www.macincloud.com/

Anybody have any experience with something like that?


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:

On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?




On your own hardware:

Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;

Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.

How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in



response to the "retirement" discussion?

At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.

jonathon

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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
> what
> > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
> this
> > project to
> > continue moving forward.
> >
> > What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we
> could
> > be
> > working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
> positive
> > direction?
> >
> > How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
> > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> >  etc...
> 
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk
> that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its
> remaining developers.
[orcmid] 

I think that is a great approach, Patricia.

> 
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> developers, especially C++ programmers."
> 
> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> complicate that message.
> 
> I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org,
> just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> an e-mail to recruitment@
[orcmid] 

We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need moderators and 
we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the 
offers.

Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is 
add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can then populate the 
database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache 
OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help 
Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other 
projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill 
requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the 
interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute.

Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.  

I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig 
into that too.

 - Dennis


> 
> The message should go out every way it can:
> 
> us...@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> memb...@apache.org
> d...@community.apache.org
> 
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
> developers to state the risk of shut down.
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/2/2016 10:09 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
more than a Mac Mini over a few months.

For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.


I'm not being quite fair there. I keep multiple versions of AOO around, 
and can afford disk space. We might be able to make do with the basic 50 
GB of disk space if managed the space more carefully.




The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
more powerful Macs and manage it directly.



On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.

I wonder if it would work to use something like this:

http://www.macincloud.com/

Anybody have any experience with something like that?


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:


On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?


On your own hardware:

Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;

Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.


How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in

response to the "retirement" discussion?

At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New
Years.

jonathon

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
another
OS do they?


Phil


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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>
> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>
> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
>> hardware
>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>
>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>
>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>
>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
>>
>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?

>>>
>>> On your own hardware:
>>>
>>> Repeat:
>>>Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>Fix the error messages you get;
>>>Write notes about what you did;
>>>Test the program functionality;
>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>
>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>
>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in

>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>
>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>
>>> jonathon
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
more than a Mac Mini over a few months.

For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.

The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
more powerful Macs and manage it directly.



On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.

I wonder if it would work to use something like this:

http://www.macincloud.com/

Anybody have any experience with something like that?


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:


On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:


What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?


On your own hardware:

Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;

Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.


How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in

response to the "retirement" discussion?

At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.

jonathon

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org






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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.

I wonder if it would work to use something like this:

http://www.macincloud.com/

Anybody have any experience with something like that?


Phil


This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:

> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
> > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>
> On your own hardware:
>
> Repeat:
>Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>Fix the error messages you get;
>Write notes about what you did;
>Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>
> > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>
> jonathon
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hello;

At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project. They 
probably want to see more activity and may recur to artificial numbers 
like number of commits, number of active developers, or releases.


I very much doubt actions from the Board will solve anything, it's the 
PMC and the developers that do the effective changes in a project.


If we make a release in the following weeks we may take the Board from 
our backs and get time to work on the things that matter.


I have to say that thanks to the brave work of Damjan the project is a
LOT more sustainable than some months ago. We have a testsuite back and
the build environment has improved substantially. Also Don has been 
doing some important cleanups and updates.


Still the problems are:

- Developers: the issue is not actually the number of them but the 
know-how that AOO requires. The majority of the experienced developers

are either still at IBM but with a lot of unrelated work, or have
gravitated slowly to LibreOffice (as in paid to do so).

- A Win64 port: 80% of our users are Windows users.

- The code is just ugly .. really, and that is true for LibreOffice as well.

There are plans (rewrite a lot in Java, more use of APR), but we just
have to be realistic and understand that big changes in the codebase
are not going to happen soon. AOO 5.0 may take at least two years.

Pedro.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Really? Substantial work is done on list to improve the build process for 
Windows and you don't think about mentioning that?

Someone who has a Mac and time could help with  that build!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamil...@acm.org> 
> wrote:
> 
> We all have these questions, Phil.  What we are awaiting is someone to 
> provide an actionable answer.
> 
> There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the 
> What would ... thread).  That's a waste of energy.  What we need is energy 
> put into having an AOO that serves its community.
> 
> Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for 
> volunteers on the download page.  
> 
> We need people to step up.  The folks we have are already spinning more 
> plates than they have arms and legs.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>> 
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>> what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
>> this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>> 
>> What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we
>> could
>> be
>> working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>> positive
>> direction?
>> 
>> How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>> 
>> 
>> Phil
>> ~~~
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.

What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?

How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...


The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk 
that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its 
remaining developers.


I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: 
"AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer 
developers, especially C++ programmers."


I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or 
complicate that message.


I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, 
just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to 
start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send 
an e-mail to recruitment@


The message should go out every way it can:

us...@openoffice.apache.org
OpenOffice forums
Press release
memb...@apache.org
d...@community.apache.org

We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for 
developers to state the risk of shut down.



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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[toki]

On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?  

On your own hardware:

Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;

Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.

> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
response to the "retirement" discussion?

At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.

jonathon

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

We all have these questions, Phil.  What we are awaiting is someone to provide 
an actionable answer.

There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the 
What would ... thread).  That's a waste of energy.  What we need is energy put 
into having an AOO that serves its community.

Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for 
volunteers on the download page.  

We need people to step up.  The folks we have are already spinning more plates 
than they have arms and legs.

 - Dennis

> -Original Message-
> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
> what
> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
> this
> project to
> continue moving forward.
> 
> What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we
> could
> be
> working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
> positive
> direction?
> 
> How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>  etc...
> 
> 
> Phil
> ~~~
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM


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What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Phillip Rhodes]

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.

What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?

How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...


Phil
~~~
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