Re: Thoughts on JSPs and OGNL
I'm gonna try and much a list of a areas that OGNL touches today so we have good context about the full stack. -bp Tom Schneider wrote: Unfortunately, I haven't had much (any) time to work on s2 at all since December. Feel free to poke around and see how far you can get. Tom Brian Pontarelli wrote: Tom Schneider wrote: Brian, I worked on Unfied EL a bit towards the end of last year: http://cwiki.apache.org/S2PLUGINS/unified-el-plugin.html I was able to get it working for basic expressions, but it is nowhere near ready for production. It would need a lot more coding/testing before it would even be considered beta status. I also think there are some fundamental limits to what can be done with standard JSP unified el. From my investigation, I'm not sure we could support all of the cool stuff we can do with OGNL. Another possibility is that Jesse talked about adding a UEL compatability layer to OGNL. I haven't followed up so I'm not sure if that went anywhere. My feeling is that the cool stuff with OGNL is probably better suited for an action or somewhere else and even if it needed to be in the page it could be handled via an OGNL tag. It would be nice to use the same syntax anywhere on the JSP including in and out of tags. I would even think that we could cover the majority of the cases using UEL ${} syntax rather than the #{} syntax. Here's another example. I was using the s:action tags quite a bit for invoking setup actions and for creating select boxes and such. From 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 this broke. I used to be able to set into the s:param an OGNL list and it would end up in the action just fine. Now it doesn't work. It would be nice to just use JSP EL since I can pass in a list object and the container is responsible for finding the object and setting it into the taglib. So, now I just pass in a String and for figure everything out myself, because I know it won't ever break across versions of Struts and OGNL. If you want some help with the UEL stuff, let me know. I'd definitely like to see one language that is simple and efficient. -bp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thoughts on JSPs and OGNL
Just to preface this email, I've never been a big OGNL fan... Okay, I'm updating everything to 2.1.1 and the new convention plugin and realized a major change from 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 is that the struts tags no longer accept JSP expressions, which has caused some major headaches. I could change the tld, but that's non-standard with Struts. My last email about compatibility didn't really get any responses and I think that it is really important overall. Upgrading between 2.0 and 2.1 is gonna be painful and it is something that should probably be documented. Here's some thoughts after having done some upgrading and also worked with very green developers and loads of different clients over the last year: - The fact that some attributes take OGNL directly, some via aliases like %{} and some not at all is REALLY confusing and cumbersome - OGNL itself is strange since it has a tree structure and the # syntax is confusing for new developers - I still haven't figured out a way to get at some JSP concepts such as include parameters (i.e. jsp:param values) and this requires hacks like: c:set name=foo value=${param['foo']}/ s:hidden name=foo value=%{#attr.foo}/ (yeah %{#parameters.foo} doesn't work for some reason. If someone knows the fix, let me know) - Different syntax to get values from objects inside and outside tags in a JSP - on the page is JSP EL (required so you don't get nested XML and your code can be XML validated) and OGNL in the tags. This is not so pleasant - Not well documented what is available from OGNL in the JSP Thus far I haven't found any major benefit to OGNL in any of my applications. I'm certain others have, but I would guess these are minimal and could be handled by some ognl tag like ognl:eval/. I know there are some folks trying to update to the UEL and this is somewhat of thinking out loud about moving this timeline up to 2.1.1 or the immediate next release. It would seem that this will make things a lot more standard overall. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. -bp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on JSPs and OGNL
Brian, I worked on Unfied EL a bit towards the end of last year: http://cwiki.apache.org/S2PLUGINS/unified-el-plugin.html I was able to get it working for basic expressions, but it is nowhere near ready for production. It would need a lot more coding/testing before it would even be considered beta status. I also think there are some fundamental limits to what can be done with standard JSP unified el. From my investigation, I'm not sure we could support all of the cool stuff we can do with OGNL. Another possibility is that Jesse talked about adding a UEL compatability layer to OGNL. I haven't followed up so I'm not sure if that went anywhere. Tom Brian Pontarelli wrote: Just to preface this email, I've never been a big OGNL fan... Okay, I'm updating everything to 2.1.1 and the new convention plugin and realized a major change from 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 is that the struts tags no longer accept JSP expressions, which has caused some major headaches. I could change the tld, but that's non-standard with Struts. My last email about compatibility didn't really get any responses and I think that it is really important overall. Upgrading between 2.0 and 2.1 is gonna be painful and it is something that should probably be documented. Here's some thoughts after having done some upgrading and also worked with very green developers and loads of different clients over the last year: - The fact that some attributes take OGNL directly, some via aliases like %{} and some not at all is REALLY confusing and cumbersome - OGNL itself is strange since it has a tree structure and the # syntax is confusing for new developers - I still haven't figured out a way to get at some JSP concepts such as include parameters (i.e. jsp:param values) and this requires hacks like: c:set name=foo value=${param['foo']}/ s:hidden name=foo value=%{#attr.foo}/ (yeah %{#parameters.foo} doesn't work for some reason. If someone knows the fix, let me know) - Different syntax to get values from objects inside and outside tags in a JSP - on the page is JSP EL (required so you don't get nested XML and your code can be XML validated) and OGNL in the tags. This is not so pleasant - Not well documented what is available from OGNL in the JSP Thus far I haven't found any major benefit to OGNL in any of my applications. I'm certain others have, but I would guess these are minimal and could be handled by some ognl tag like ognl:eval/. I know there are some folks trying to update to the UEL and this is somewhat of thinking out loud about moving this timeline up to 2.1.1 or the immediate next release. It would seem that this will make things a lot more standard overall. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. -bp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on JSPs and OGNL
Tom Schneider wrote: Brian, I worked on Unfied EL a bit towards the end of last year: http://cwiki.apache.org/S2PLUGINS/unified-el-plugin.html I was able to get it working for basic expressions, but it is nowhere near ready for production. It would need a lot more coding/testing before it would even be considered beta status. I also think there are some fundamental limits to what can be done with standard JSP unified el. From my investigation, I'm not sure we could support all of the cool stuff we can do with OGNL. Another possibility is that Jesse talked about adding a UEL compatability layer to OGNL. I haven't followed up so I'm not sure if that went anywhere. My feeling is that the cool stuff with OGNL is probably better suited for an action or somewhere else and even if it needed to be in the page it could be handled via an OGNL tag. It would be nice to use the same syntax anywhere on the JSP including in and out of tags. I would even think that we could cover the majority of the cases using UEL ${} syntax rather than the #{} syntax. Here's another example. I was using the s:action tags quite a bit for invoking setup actions and for creating select boxes and such. From 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 this broke. I used to be able to set into the s:param an OGNL list and it would end up in the action just fine. Now it doesn't work. It would be nice to just use JSP EL since I can pass in a list object and the container is responsible for finding the object and setting it into the taglib. So, now I just pass in a String and for figure everything out myself, because I know it won't ever break across versions of Struts and OGNL. If you want some help with the UEL stuff, let me know. I'd definitely like to see one language that is simple and efficient. -bp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoughts on JSPs and OGNL
Unfortunately, I haven't had much (any) time to work on s2 at all since December. Feel free to poke around and see how far you can get. Tom Brian Pontarelli wrote: Tom Schneider wrote: Brian, I worked on Unfied EL a bit towards the end of last year: http://cwiki.apache.org/S2PLUGINS/unified-el-plugin.html I was able to get it working for basic expressions, but it is nowhere near ready for production. It would need a lot more coding/testing before it would even be considered beta status. I also think there are some fundamental limits to what can be done with standard JSP unified el. From my investigation, I'm not sure we could support all of the cool stuff we can do with OGNL. Another possibility is that Jesse talked about adding a UEL compatability layer to OGNL. I haven't followed up so I'm not sure if that went anywhere. My feeling is that the cool stuff with OGNL is probably better suited for an action or somewhere else and even if it needed to be in the page it could be handled via an OGNL tag. It would be nice to use the same syntax anywhere on the JSP including in and out of tags. I would even think that we could cover the majority of the cases using UEL ${} syntax rather than the #{} syntax. Here's another example. I was using the s:action tags quite a bit for invoking setup actions and for creating select boxes and such. From 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 this broke. I used to be able to set into the s:param an OGNL list and it would end up in the action just fine. Now it doesn't work. It would be nice to just use JSP EL since I can pass in a list object and the container is responsible for finding the object and setting it into the taglib. So, now I just pass in a String and for figure everything out myself, because I know it won't ever break across versions of Struts and OGNL. If you want some help with the UEL stuff, let me know. I'd definitely like to see one language that is simple and efficient. -bp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]