Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
Official signed images for build 650 are now at: http://download.laptop.org/xo-1/os/official/650/jffs2/ You can also use: olpc-update 650 From what version should I try this? Naturally my B4s are loaded with 135x. Should I install (signed?) 648 and Q2D05 first? -- Yoshiki ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Fake mesh over IP.
Morgan Collett wrote: Miguel Álvarez wrote: I think that you're rather interested on the presence service and activity sharing. That can be done independently of the mesh range, as it relies (in the infrastructure mode) on jabber servers. I guess there will be designated server(s) for G1G1 recipients, but that can be manually configured if necessary. Yes, the presence service operates either over the mesh, or via a Jabber server if you have Internet access. However due to scalability issues, the G1G1 software is not configured with a real jabber server by default. There is no way we could handle the 100,000 G1G1 laptops trying to connect to the current infrastructure. Is there an easy way of using salut on the regular (non-mesh) wifi interface? That would cover only laptops on the same LAN and be suited for a school laboratory or a household. Jani ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Fake mesh over IP.
Miguel Álvarez wrote: I think that you're rather interested on the presence service and activity sharing. That can be done independently of the mesh range, as it relies (in the infrastructure mode) on jabber servers. I guess there will be designated server(s) for G1G1 recipients, but that can be manually configured if necessary. Yes, the presence service operates either over the mesh, or via a Jabber server if you have Internet access. However due to scalability issues, the G1G1 software is not configured with a real jabber server by default. There is no way we could handle the 100,000 G1G1 laptops trying to connect to the current infrastructure. We are working on server scalability issues for Update.1, at which time there will be a new software release and hopefully a usable server. I do NOT recommend anybody advising G1G1 users to connect to the current developer jabber servers, as that will ensure that those servers become unusable for the development community. The best alternative we can offer at this stage is http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_your_own_jabber_server which points to the ejabberd configuration currently in use, and which will be kept up to date as we test additional Jabber servers. Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 02:23:19AM -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: You can also use: olpc-update 650 No such module. Presume you meant: olpc-update ship.2-650 Which worked fine. 1.4Mb total download per B4 here. -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
C. Scott Ananian wrote: That said, *please try using olpc-update*, because we need to get an idea of how common the failures are (we have not found them to be very common). Please note that ship.2 includes the buggy version of olpc-utils that will reset the LANG back to English on updates. The problem is fixed in Joyride. -- \___/ |___| Bernardo Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \___\ One Laptop Per Child - http://www.laptop.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Fake mesh over IP.
Morgan Collett wrote: Yes, the presence service operates either over the mesh, or via a Jabber server if you have Internet access. However due to scalability issues, the G1G1 software is not configured with a real jabber server by default. There is no way we could handle the 100,000 G1G1 laptops trying to connect to the current infrastructure. We are working on server scalability issues for Update.1, at which time there will be a new software release and hopefully a usable server. I do NOT recommend anybody advising G1G1 users to connect to the current developer jabber servers, as that will ensure that those servers become unusable for the development community. Some G1G1 users are going to be sophisticated enough to search the web, find a server URL on the wiki and attempt to collaborate using it. :) I think the real answer is to find a corporate entity who will view this as a marketing opportunity and provide the infrastructure, much like T-Mobile have done with a year of free wireless connectivity. Speaking of such sophisticated G1G1 users, I've built VMware images of ship2, and I can do so for Joyride as well. Is there a place where I could post such images for people who are waiting for their G1G1 hardware, so they can experiment with the interface? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RFC: OLPC XMPP component protocol
Hi folks, We're currently in the process of designing the protocol that OLPC laptops (currently aiming at Update.2) can use to talk to a XMPP server component. Currently we do some odd things (which seemed like a good idea back in March when we had no UI for subscribing to people), such as rely on a shared roster configuration on the server that lets everyone see everyone else, and put stuff which is actually per-activity (which are magically blessed MUC rooms) into other PEP nodes which everyone pushes around. This sucks. Some relevant background information: * The protocols we use to implement shared activities: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Shared_Activity_Protocol_1.0 * The XMPP extensions we rely on (and how we (ab?)use them): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XMPP_Extensions * The server configuration we require: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Openfire_Configuration (this is still a bit experimental and needs a couple of patches to our client code to take care of slightly different MUC/PEP semantic - we started with Ejabberd because it had a PEP patch available back in March) The goals of our component are the following: * it can be easily deployed without needing anything more specific than a Jabber server that has support for PEP and MUC * it doesn't rely on any abnormal configuration/behaviour on the Jabber server that breach the normal XMPP approaches to privacy * it doesn't rely on being able to access information from the server's MUC or PEP implementations in any non-standard mechanisms * it can scale better than the current protocol, possibly even to 50,000 laptops if we consider the G1G1 (http://www.laptopgiving.org/) programme, and a suitably scalable server * it adds the ability to do server-side searching which we currently lack, except by dint of the fact that we currently see everything so we can implement filtering on the client side The component protocol we're designing to address these goals is documented here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XMPP_Component_Protocol The general idea is that we keep using PEP for the per-buddy information (the OLPC buddy properties, and the current activity) so we receive that for our buddies, but we stop using it for any activity information and we use extended MUC invites and change messages inside the MUCs to send the activity properties around. The component then uses both of these technologies (you subscribe to the component so it can see your PEP notifications, and you invite it into activity MUCs you want to publish) to make the buddy property, activity property and activity membership information searchable for people who aren't on your roster, and push updates to them. (For the people on the XMPP standards list, I should probably point out that I'm not particularly proposing any of this to be standardised, I'm just looking for any feedback or input on our design, and what concerns will impact its scalability.) One particular unsolved issue we have is that because the component doesn't know who your friends are, this means that we will find out about activities from our friends' PEP nodes which we don't have the activity properties for. Currently this means when we encounter an activity that's not in our current result set, we'll have to manipulate this (or another set) of our friends's activities which we'd like to also receive the properties for. Ideally the component would already know, and could push these details to us. Any suggestions on how to address this are welcome. On a related note, it seems that there is the possibility that we want to change the protocol so we can open up a few distinct sets of results, such as certain activities or buddies, and have the server keep them around so it can keep pushing us notifications when anything changes. Should we be using something different to Result Set Management given that says it's aimed at stateless queries, or do you think it's ok to re-use it once we've worked out how to open/close different search contexts? And generally, what do people think? Is there a completely different approach we should be taking? Thanks for your time... apologies for the over-long e-mail too. :) Regards, Rob ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: lots of scrolling in activities-list
We have a completely new approach to this on the table, which will be discussed and hopefully placed into the roadmap soon. Once we've polished the ideas and the mockups I'm sure they will be available for everyone to provide feedback on. It won't be a start menu, though; I promise. ;-) - Eben On Dec 5, 2007 2:08 PM, Christoph Derndorfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I finally had a chance to play with our B4s and build 648. Given that a number of additional activities are now available compared to previous builds I do find the scrolling in the activities list to be a bit tiresome. Especially when I think about these laptops being in use for several months, children having downloaded more activites, maybe additional activities will be deployed by local groups or ministries of education. That can easily result in upwards of 30 or 40 activities being installed on any given machine. Shouldn't we try to come up with a better (or at least offer an alternative) approach to handling these lists of activities? (How about a start button for example?;-) Maybe categories or something? What do you think? Cheers, Christoph (OLPC Austria) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
http://blog.vrplumber.com/2009
On Dec 5, 2007 8:30 AM, Charles Durrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am I missing where the status of Develop activity is documented?
Is it (1) in work, (2) frozen, (3) abandoned/orphaned, (4) unknown/no
consensus?
Andrew Clunis had it for a while but last change was months ago.
TIA
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New joyride build 1372
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1372/ -Etoys-71.xo +Etoys-72.xo -etoys.noarch 0:2.2.1796-1 +etoys.noarch 0:2.3.1820-1 --- etoys.noarch 2.3.1820-1 --- * updated translations, added el, ne, ur, zh_TW * automatically pop up badges as buddies join and leave * save Smalltalk code from current changeset in project --- Etoys-72 --- * updated translations, added el, ne, ur, zh_TW * automatically pop up badges as buddies join and leave * save Smalltalk code from current changeset in project -- This email was automatically generated Aggregated logs at http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-pkgs.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: .xo archive?
--- Ed Montgomery wrote: Can anyone suggest a link for a 'master' .xo package list/wiki/directory/whatever? --- end of quote --- there are a few pages to look at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities (this is where most activites should be listed in the future) http://olpc.download.redhat.com/activities/joyride/ (all the activites in joyride) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/GCompris (GCompris activities may not work on builds after 623; there is a track bug about this) - AlexL ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
lots of scrolling in activities-list
Hello all, I finally had a chance to play with our B4s and build 648. Given that a number of additional activities are now available compared to previous builds I do find the scrolling in the activities list to be a bit tiresome. Especially when I think about these laptops being in use for several months, children having downloaded more activites, maybe additional activities will be deployed by local groups or ministries of education. That can easily result in upwards of 30 or 40 activities being installed on any given machine. Shouldn't we try to come up with a better (or at least offer an alternative) approach to handling these lists of activities? (How about a start button for example?;-) Maybe categories or something? What do you think? Cheers, Christoph (OLPC Austria) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Fake mesh over IP.
I have a couple G1G1 coming my way. I'm trying to figure what I need to support them and a few sugars running on ubuntu boxes. Both XOs will be here for a short while. Then one will be going south to MX with my grandson and daughter. I'll need at least a jabber server of my own. Would it be better to install my own XS school server? Would it be even better to have local servers at both sites? I see lists for developers and educators. Is there a list for system/network admistrators? On Dec 5, 2007 9:06 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Morgan Collett wrote: Yes, the presence service operates either over the mesh, or via a Jabber server if you have Internet access. However due to scalability issues, the G1G1 software is not configured with a real jabber server by default. There is no way we could handle the 100,000 G1G1 laptops trying to connect to the current infrastructure. We are working on server scalability issues for Update.1, at which time there will be a new software release and hopefully a usable server. I do NOT recommend anybody advising G1G1 users to connect to the current developer jabber servers, as that will ensure that those servers become unusable for the development community. Some G1G1 users are going to be sophisticated enough to search the web, find a server URL on the wiki and attempt to collaborate using it. :) I think the real answer is to find a corporate entity who will view this as a marketing opportunity and provide the infrastructure, much like T-Mobile have done with a year of free wireless connectivity. Speaking of such sophisticated G1G1 users, I've built VMware images of ship2, and I can do so for Joyride as well. Is there a place where I could post such images for people who are waiting for their G1G1 hardware, so they can experiment with the interface? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Drew Einhorn ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: lots of scrolling in activities-list
Excellent, hidden/scrolling panels are such bad UI. Hopefully we'll see a replacement sooner rather than later! On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:13:20 -0500 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have a completely new approach to this on the table, which will be discussed and hopefully placed into the roadmap soon. Once we've polished the ideas and the mockups I'm sure they will be available for everyone to provide feedback on. It won't be a start menu, though; I promise. ;-) - Eben On Dec 5, 2007 2:08 PM, Christoph Derndorfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I finally had a chance to play with our B4s and build 648. Given that a number of additional activities are now available compared to previous builds I do find the scrolling in the activities list to be a bit tiresome. Especially when I think about these laptops being in use for several months, children having downloaded more activites, maybe additional activities will be deployed by local groups or ministries of education. That can easily result in upwards of 30 or 40 activities being installed on any given machine. Shouldn't we try to come up with a better (or at least offer an alternative) approach to handling these lists of activities? (How about a start button for example?;-) Maybe categories or something? What do you think? Cheers, Christoph (OLPC Austria) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OpenFirmware password
I am not completely sure how to set it for the XO-1. I have followed instructions for other implementations of OpenFirmware, but without success. Any ideas? -ffm ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Status of Develop.activity?
Am I missing where the status of Develop activity is documented? Is it (1) in work, (2) frozen, (3) abandoned/orphaned, (4) unknown/no consensus? Andrew Clunis had it for a while but last change was months ago. TIA ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 1373
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1373/ -telepathy-gabble.i386 0:0.7.1-0.4.olpc2 +telepathy-gabble.i386 0:0.7.1-0.5.olpc2 -- This email was automatically generated Aggregated logs at http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-pkgs.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Please indicate exactly what packages need to be changed...
Please indicate exactly what packages need to be changed, when asking for approval to put something into the Update.1 build. It isn't fair to Dennis for him to have to divine this information from patches and comments that it's working in joyride. Thanks, - Jim -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
On Dec 5, 2007 11:16 AM, Stephen Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is interesting because I used olpc-update 650 from home this morning and it installed but I have to say the last message before the system prompt was installing . it did not give a warm fuzzy feeling that it installed until I rebooted and noted the kernel was 650. I will add a nice Reboot now to start running your new build; if you have any problems, hold down the 'O' key when powering on to return to your current operating system version. message to olpc-update for update.1 What concern me was that it only took 10 minutes... it did not appears to have to load the entire 300mb... That's the key feature! --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
On Dec 5, 2007 9:14 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Gettys wrote: -bash-3.2# olpc-update 650 Downlaoding contents of build 650. @Error unknown module 'build-650':md5 mismatch for build 650 On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 02:23 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: olpc-update 650 olpc-update ship-2.650 worked for me on a MP XO. Sorry, I'd gone home for the night and my home internet link is very slow for uploads (asymmetric connections, grumble grumble). The olpc-update should work with both ship.2-650 and plain 650, but the latter comes from download.laptop.org and it took multiple hours last night for the upload to download.laptop.org from my laptop to complete. In any case, I know that 'olpc-update 650' failed last night while 'olpc-update ship.2-650' didn't, blame verizon, they both should work now. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OpenFirmware password
ffm wrote: I am not completely sure how to set it for the XO-1. I have followed instructions for other implementations of OpenFirmware, but without success. Password security is not enabled in the XO version of OFW. Most of the deployed systems will be in secure mode, in which you can't access the firmware prompt without a developer key. In general, I have chosen not to implement persistent configuration variable storage for the XO OFW. One reason is to make the system simpler/more foolproof. Another reason is because the XO doesn't have a good place to store such information. Any ideas? -ffm ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
That is interesting because I used olpc-update 650 from home this morning and it installed but I have to say the last message before the system prompt was installing . it did not give a warm fuzzy feeling that it installed until I rebooted and noted the kernel was 650. What concern me was that it only took 10 minutes... it did not appears to have to load the entire 300mb... BTW I loaded the new OFW after I installed 650 if that makes a difference. C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Dec 5, 2007 9:14 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Gettys wrote: -bash-3.2# olpc-update 650 Downlaoding contents of build 650. @Error unknown module 'build-650':md5 mismatch for build 650 On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 02:23 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: olpc-update 650 olpc-update ship-2.650 worked for me on a MP XO. Sorry, I'd gone home for the night and my home internet link is very slow for uploads (asymmetric connections, grumble grumble). The olpc-update should work with both ship.2-650 and plain 650, but the latter comes from download.laptop.org and it took multiple hours last night for the upload to download.laptop.org from my laptop to complete. In any case, I know that 'olpc-update 650' failed last night while 'olpc-update ship.2-650' didn't, blame verizon, they both should work now. --scott ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
Jim Gettys wrote: -bash-3.2# olpc-update 650 Downlaoding contents of build 650. @Error unknown module 'build-650':md5 mismatch for build 650 On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 02:23 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: olpc-update 650 olpc-update ship-2.650 worked for me on a MP XO. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: .xo archive?
I'm wondering if there is a 'master' archive/directory/list of ALL .xo packages? I've been looking, and have found SOME on source code list, others on a packaging list, etc. So, for example, I've wandered amongst several lists/sites looking for a tamtam.xo, but so far, all I have found is source for various parts. Can anyone suggest a link for a 'master' .xo package list/wiki/directory/whatever? Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official signed ship.2 candidate 650
I tried to do the update Here's the results -bash-3.2# olpc-update 650 Downlaoding contents of build 650. @Error unknown module 'build-650':md5 mismatch for build 650 rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1383) [receiver=2.6.9] Could not download update contents file from: rsync://updates.laptop.org/build-650/contents I don't think the requested build number exists. On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 02:23 -0500, C. Scott Ananian wrote: Official signed images for build 650 are now at: http://download.laptop.org/xo-1/os/official/650/jffs2/ You can also use: olpc-update 650 but be aware that build 650 fixes an open firmware bug which could cause your machine to fail to boot after you upgrade. That said, *please try using olpc-update*, because we need to get an idea of how common the failures are (we have not found them to be very common). If your boot fails after you olpc-update, do an alt boot by pressing O when you power-on to restore to your previous OS version and manually flash the firmware to q2d06, which should fix the problem. The firmware will not automatically update from the build unless you are using secure boot; if you have security disabled on your machine, boot with 'X' held down to do a one-time-only secure boot, which should automatically reflash the firmware for you. You must have a battery *and* AC power present before OFW will attempt to reflash the firmware. Since this is an emergency release for ship.2, with very little lead time, please help us test 650. It should be identical to build 649 except for the firmware (and I have manually gone through a file-by-file diff to check this) but bugs can creep in. --scott -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: lots of scrolling in activities-list
Eben, thanks a lot for the information! I'm very much looking forward to what you guys have thought of... :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:13:20 -0500 From: Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: lots of scrolling in activities-list To: Christoph Derndorfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We have a completely new approach to this on the table, which will be discussed and hopefully placed into the roadmap soon. Once we've polished the ideas and the mockups I'm sure they will be available for everyone to provide feedback on. It won't be a start menu, though; I promise. ;-) - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Displaying formatted text (HTML)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Asheesh Laroia wrote: Right now, we have the formatted text in HTML format. I don't really want to embed Mozilla, but is there a lightweight GTK HTML widget that I can access from Python that is standard on the XO? Not that I'm aware of. If not, is there something reasonable someone can suggest? 1. GTK text Labels and other text objects support an HTML-like markup language, providing the ability to set font, size, color, underline, justification, etc. 2. The AbiWord widgets are relatively easy to embed from python. You could make your text an Abiword document. 3. You could just use an SVG. For localization, switching out the text in an SVG is just as easy as changing the text in an HTML document. It's not like the text is converted to outlines before being saved to the file. GTK makes it trivial to display SVGs, as you're probably aware. It also allows you more control than options 1 and 2. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHV059UJT6e6HFtqQRAtm6AJ0ZZc1taQPziFhvrPQ+0kBlV3KqswCbBNgC hnonAL/4wcTKqv8bZBsH6Ck= =0nzD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
Howdy. Comments inline below.
On Dec 5, 2007 6:37 PM, Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Starting January 6, I plan to be working 20 hours a week on Develop.
Actually I was gonna do tinymail first as Sugar practice. I estimate that I
will have something useable (for Develop) within a month, though usable is
very very far from feature-complete. No source control, language features,
activity sharing, or even a real debugger in the initial version, just a
python editor and shell.
Sounds like a plan. I have some 'downtime' from my northern hemisphere
farm during the winter so I might see what I can noodle together also.
I feel a Develop.activity capability is a very important aspect of the
OLPC. Along the lines of the embedded basic interpreters in the early
computers mass marketed to the general (and creative) population. It's
also philosophically important but that's a whole different discussion.
I've war gamed three different Develop.activity development
architecture/languages: Python, Smalltalk and JavaScript. I think I'll
'attack' on the Python front.
Any one of the aforementioned extra features would, of course, more than
double the total work, but all are important in my POV. As soon as I can, I
plan to start working on language features (my pet project, search the wiki
for bityi to see some of my ideas). I would be happy to coordinate with
MCFletch to split up the job, but it looks as if they have plenty else on
their plate too...
I plan to apply for a developer machine, too, as soon as the Christmas
rush is over. Hopefully enough hours of developer work earns you one, even
if you're not working on hardware and drivers. (And don't y'all want
somebody demoing in Guatemala?)
Mmm. Well my 'constraints' are to try to develop Develop.activity solely
on the OLPC itself to avoid tiery-eyed astigmatism. I have 3 G1G1 machines
heading in my direction and will eventually use one of those. For now I am
using Ship.2 running in Qemu.
I've gotten IDLE working on the OLPC and plan to look at slamming it
together with the presumably Sugar architected fragments from the
Develop.activity files I found dated March of this year (2007). As I
mentioned, I'll be eating my own dog food by using only what's on the
deployed machines and whatever I can create that way.
Jameson
Chuck
On Dec 5, 2007 2:03 PM, Michael Burns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://blog.vrplumber.com/2009
On Dec 5, 2007 8:30 AM, Charles Durrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Am I missing where the status of Develop activity is documented?
Is it (1) in work, (2) frozen, (3) abandoned/orphaned, (4) unknown/no
consensus?
Andrew Clunis had it for a while but last change was months ago.
TIA
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New joyride build 1374
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1374/ -Journal-78.xo +Journal-79.xo -sugar-datastore.noarch 0:0.5-0.8.gite23a6f66eb +sugar-datastore.noarch 0:0.5-1 -sugar.i386 0:0.75.0-0.9.git5e942edddc +sugar.i386 0:0.75.0-1 --- Journal-79 --- * #5162 Don't take a screenshot when asked by the shell. (tomeu) * #5235 Don't try to extract an icon from a bundle entry without file. (tomeu) -- This email was automatically generated Aggregated logs at http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-pkgs.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
Starting January 6, I plan to be working 20 hours a week on Develop.
Actually I was gonna do tinymail first as Sugar practice. I estimate that I
will have something useable (for Develop) within a month, though usable is
very very far from feature-complete. No source control, language features,
activity sharing, or even a real debugger in the initial version, just a
python editor and shell. Any one of the aforementioned extra features would,
of course, more than double the total work, but all are important in my POV.
As soon as I can, I plan to start working on language features (my pet
project, search the wiki for bityi to see some of my ideas). I would be
happy to coordinate with MCFletch to split up the job, but it looks as if
they have plenty else on their plate too...
I plan to apply for a developer machine, too, as soon as the Christmas rush
is over. Hopefully enough hours of developer work earns you one, even if
you're not working on hardware and drivers. (And don't y'all want somebody
demoing in Guatemala?)
Jameson
On Dec 5, 2007 2:03 PM, Michael Burns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://blog.vrplumber.com/2009
On Dec 5, 2007 8:30 AM, Charles Durrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Am I missing where the status of Develop activity is documented?
Is it (1) in work, (2) frozen, (3) abandoned/orphaned, (4) unknown/no
consensus?
Andrew Clunis had it for a while but last change was months ago.
TIA
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Michael Burns * Student
Open Source {Education} Lab
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no serial number ?
I've got a B2-1 which I've just upgraded ready for a demo to a local Australian senator. Unfortunately I've been bitten by the activation process. At powerup it says S/N Unknown, then could not activate this XO Serial number: SHF When I try the activative procedure, I instead get: No serial number in mfg data No serial number User power button to power off plus a sad face icon. Any suggestions? Under the battery cover it says b2-7 and gives a serial number of SHF70600215 Cheers, Tridge PS: Are there any other olpc owners in Canberra who could bring a machine along to a meeting with Senator Lundy next week? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: no serial number ?
I wonder how the WP tag got set? Alexander M. Latham wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At powerup it says S/N Unknown, then could not activate this XO Serial number: SHF When I try the activative procedure, I instead get: No serial number in mfg data No serial number User power button to power off plus a sad face icon. Any suggestions? Under the battery cover it says b2-7 and gives a serial number of SHF70600215 Cheers, Tridge --- end of quote --- Unfortunately, it sounds like you have a bricked machine. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
Charles Durrett writes: On Dec 5, 2007 6:37 PM, Jameson Chema Quinn jquinn at cs.oberlin.edu wrote: Starting January 6, I plan to be working 20 hours a week on Develop. Actually I was gonna do tinymail first as Sugar practice. If tinymail is an email client, I'd like to discuss it with you. I estimate that I will have something useable (for Develop) within a month, though usable is very very far from feature-complete. No source control, language features, activity sharing, or even a real debugger in the initial version, just a python editor and shell. ... I feel a Develop.activity capability is a very important aspect of the OLPC. Along the lines of the embedded basic interpreters in the early computers mass marketed to the general (and creative) population. It's also philosophically important but that's a whole different discussion. I disagree, despite a strong belief that programming should be easily available to kids. There are several types of environment: a. VB-style RAD. (place widgets with mouse, write bits of code) b. tokenizing editor that refuses to allow bad syntax c. traditional editor It looks like Develop is a traditional editor, and maybe not a very nice one. (it's abusing a full word processing engine) I would not be surprised to find that the Terminal activity is a much more usable solution. There you even get your choice of editor, language, build system, revision control, etc. It seems we already have a Python IDE anyway. Why have two? (you can answer this will replace Pippy of course) The old 8-bit computer BASIC editors often would simply refuse to let you enter bad syntax. The language was also quite easy. Sorry to all the LISP fans out there, but 220 GOTO 200 is really easy for kids to understand. The XO is sorely lacking in something so easy to use. The other stuff (Python, Smalltalk, Java, etc.) is really hard compared to BASIC. Well, if one were trying to discourage kids, then the modern stuff would be perfect for that. I have to admit that VB development is very easy to start with. Things would be really different if kids could draw an activity, click on objects to add bits of BASIC, and then click to spit out a *.xo that is fully functional. Finally we have the problem of NO systems programming language being supplied. It's less than 9 MB for the whole C development environment, including a decent collection of *-devel packages. You even get a second language thrown in for free, x86 assembly. Pretty much everything that matters is written in C, including the Python interpreter. I've gotten IDLE working on the OLPC and plan to look at slamming it together with the presumably Sugar architected fragments from the Develop.activity files I found dated March of this year (2007). As I mentioned, I'll be eating my own dog food by using only what's on the deployed machines and whatever I can create that way. This I like to hear. Eating one's own dog food is very good. Note that non-activity developers need to put aside some RAM for the activities. (sugar developers, I'm looking at you!) Booting with mem=128m ought to do the job. In less than a year, the system memory usage has more than doubled. I hear that people are actually doing development on workstations with lots of RAM and fast CPUs, and it shows. Actually doing the OS builds on the XO would be wonderful. This would have caught the problems with *-devel RPMs being broken. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: no serial number ?
I wonder how the WP tag got set? WP == write protect? You think the flash is write protected? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
On Dec 6, 2007 12:29 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 5, 2007 10:15 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally we have the problem of NO systems programming language being supplied. It's less than 9 MB for the whole C development environment, including a decent collection of *-devel packages. You even get a second language thrown in for free, x86 assembly. Pretty much everything that matters is written in C, including the Python interpreter. I'd be very interested in hearing details of your 'whole C development environment'. By my casual inspection, 'rpm -qi gcc' says that gcc alone is over 10MB, and that *doesn't* include any of the *-devel packages needed to make it actually useful. I'm going by what the yum command spits out when I actually do the install. (if that is compressed, well, so is the filesystem) I got: gcc5.2 M glibc-devel2.0 M glibc-headers 608 k kernel-headers 645 k Random libraries come cheap: libpng-devel 105 k zlib-devel 81 k libpaper-devel 7.6 k libpaper35 k ... It only gets bad when the RPM is defective, as is rather common. Getting X11 headers will drag in libGL. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Dec 5, 2007 10:15 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally we have the problem of NO systems programming language being supplied. It's less than 9 MB for the whole C development environment, including a decent collection of *-devel packages. You even get a second language thrown in for free, x86 assembly. Pretty much everything that matters is written in C, including the Python interpreter. I'd be very interested in hearing details of your 'whole C development environment'. By my casual inspection, 'rpm -qi gcc' says that gcc alone is over 10MB, and that *doesn't* include any of the *-devel packages needed to make it actually useful. I believe there has been some work done on identifying a lightweight C development infrastructure; your assistance there would be helpful. --scott Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the XO a platform for learning, not software development? And isn't it supposed to be lightweight and child-friendly? I would dearly love to have Ruby in there, and R, and SBCL, and Guile, and Maxima, and Perl, because I don't know *any* Python. But the philosophy of the machine is that languages other than Python and Squeak/Smalltalk are discouraged. I don't mind learning Python to be able to program the machine. Now, if you truly want a lightweight development environment, install gforth. I believe it's under 2 MB, and it's a full ANS Forth, not the basic low-level Forth that's in the boot firmware. It has, like most Forths, an assembler and dis-assembler. That said, when I get my G1G1, I'm certainly planning to load additional software on a Secure Digital card, but that will probably be cross-compiled on another system, rather than native-compiled on the XO, simply because I've got much bigger workstations to use for compile engines. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Status of Develop.activity?
The old 8-bit computer BASIC editors often would simply refuse to let you enter bad syntax. The language was also quite easy. Sorry to all the LISP fans out there, but 220 GOTO 200 is really easy for kids to understand. The XO is sorely lacking in something so easy to use. The other stuff (Python, Smalltalk, Java, etc.) is really hard compared to BASIC. Well, if one were trying to discourage kids, then the modern stuff would be perfect for that. I have to admit that VB development is very easy to start with. Things would be really different if kids could draw an activity, click on objects to add bits of BASIC, and then click to spit out a *.xo that is fully functional. The sweet spot of these versions of BASIC with line numbers is around 20-100 lines of programs, and you wouldn't do too much of object-oriented GUI programming, etc., etc in it. It is still ok for writing and learning simple programs, but writing a useful .xo in it would be something I wouldn't recommend. Nerds had written 10s of thousands of lines of code, but you wouldn't recommend that in the 21st century, right? (Of course I don't agree that Smalltalk is really hard compared to BASIC, but that is different story.) (No, that Etoys thing again!?) And, you can readily do syntax- and namespace-aware interactive editing of Smalltalk in Etoys/Squeak on XO, and make an executable with full multimedia capability and everything on XO for XO, basically. (There is a missing piece to make the actual .xo file from Etoys project. Bert did the proof of concept work and we would need to make it accessible to people). You can even do the RAD style programming, BTW. Finally we have the problem of NO systems programming language being supplied. It's less than 9 MB for the whole C development environment, including a decent collection of *-devel packages. You even get a second language thrown in for free, x86 assembly. Pretty much everything that matters is written in C, including the Python interpreter. That was your point in November as well: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2007-November/007947.html but there are two responses to that post. (About the actual size and also the runtime memory requirement.) Did you look at them? This I like to hear. Eating one's own dog food is very good. Yes. I like it, too. I could do virtually all my development work for Etoys on XO without compromizing too much (just the keyboard with harder to use shift keys and a bit of sluggishness.). Note that non-activity developers need to put aside some RAM for the activities. (sugar developers, I'm looking at you!) Booting with mem=128m ought to do the job. In less than a year, the system memory usage has more than doubled. I hear that people are actually doing development on workstations with lots of RAM and fast CPUs, and it shows. I share the same feeling here. 128MB is pretty big chunk of memory. I went to Cambridge several times in last two years and observed that the designers were making UI mockups on a faster computer in Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. The visual appearances were indeed pretty good for the first glance, but also that seemed like a recipe for making bloated UI for a slow computer. I wish the design work would have been done on slower computers. In that way, you can get better guess on the actual performance, the memory usage. -- Yoshiki ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: no serial number ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Um, I don't like those instructions at all. Why not just set the serial number in SPI flash, and set the 'ak' tag while you're at it? Mitch suggested that first, and it didn't work. Setting a SN tag plus a U# tag did work, According to my recall, it still did not work after the U# tag was set. The following line from IRC is from just after we got the U# thing set correctly: tridgehmm, ok, boot still tells me could not activate this XO followed by Serial Number: SHF70600215 We did not succeed until we booted without the initrd. but Mitch preferred not to provide public instructions on that, and suggested that I write up the boot script method instead. Cheers, Tridge ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-01
Walter Bender wrote: [snipped...] 4. AC adapters: There has been a request for AC adapters that are rotated ninety degrees from the current configuration. In order to rotate the orientation of the prongs, the width of the adapter must be extended (to satisfy the safety requirement). As a result, six reoriented AC adapters will not fit abreast in the standard spacing of a six-plug power strip. Mary Lou Jepsen and Fuse are investigating further; if we can not resolve the issue, we will not make AC adapters with a rotated prong orientation. Not sure what the reason is for making rotated prong design, but will something like this address the spacing issue? http://www.amazon.com/Ziotek-Power-Strip-Liberator/dp/B0009K98BS/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1196926216sr=8-3 Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
