Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 02:12:26AM -0800, Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Andrew C Aitchison wrote: We have lost developers who might have been valuable to us by not giving them CVS access. I'm afraid to say that from the outside it appears that if David had been able to swallow his pride a little more, things might have turned out a little different. Actually, this points to a more structural failure in the tools. People seem to be afraid to bestow CVS access due to it being so all or nothing. It's really not, you know. Aside from the fact you can do permissions, there's also the KDE module, with a flexible checkin script to allow/deny/whatever commits, based on an arbitrary ruleset. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org What's next? People turning up on my doorstep, observing that the lack of doorbell is likely to confuse people and hence removing my front door? -- David Woodhouse on usability efforts, Advogato pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - Staying or leaving XFree86.org? [Was: Re: Cygwin/XFree86 Bugs?]
On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:51:05PM -0700, Marc Aurele La France wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter Firefly Lund wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote: When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same. Err... No. He was quite reasonable, in my opinion. On the contrary. Implying that XFree86 owes him anything, be it a personal/family life or the right to commit, is not reasonable at all. Saying give me what I want to be a volunteer! simply doesn't cut it. I've tried to stay out of this ... From my (impartial; I'm not taking sides) reading, he was saying, if you want me here, it's on my terms, which includes CVS. No CVS, no me. He was (AFAICT) placing conditions on his continued participation in a volunteer activity, not making demands of other volunteers. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org What's next? People turning up on my doorstep, observing that the lack of doorbell is likely to confuse people and hence removing my front door? -- David Woodhouse on usability efforts, Advogato pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Starting XFree86 without an XF86Config file
On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:34:42PM -0500, Bryan W. Headley wrote: Now, as to anyone who say, eww, it's Gtk, or it's Qt, or I hate Tk, I have only one thing to say to them: Athena Widgets. Jesus, no. The point of this is that it's meant to be *easy* and *simple*. This means that it should integrate with the preferred environment. GNOME and KDE versions of the autoconfigurator will come, I guarantee you. The only reason that more people aren't really, incredibly excited about this is that very few people know. I assure you GNOME and KDE versions will come. Don't have none, have both. Red Hat can ship the GNOME version, SuSE/whatever can ship the KDE version, and they work the same way, semantically. Everyone's happy. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Memory Allocation Problems for Intel 845G
On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 06:33:52AM -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: you or christian should add this as a bug to bugzilla (http://bugs.xfree86.org/). This is the new method for posting patches to be accepted into cvs. This isn't a patch to be accepted into CVS, only an idea; as it stands, it's an external binary. Its main function is to show one what registers need what data shoved into them. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: synaptics lockups (was Re: radeon lockups ...)
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:04:00AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: It's GPL licensed unfortunately. Only MIT licensed code is accepted into XFree86, so this driver will never be included. That means once kernel 2.6 is standard, the majority of laptop users with synaptics touchpads will have to rely on their OS distribution to provide the GPL driver, or will have to compile it themselves. The only other option would be for someone to write a brand new driver for synaptics and license it as MIT, without looking at the GPL driver's source code. It's possible to do a clean room implementation, but I'm not sure if anyone would really want to bother when there's a working driver already. Well, couldn't the upstream author just relicense it? -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: synaptics lockups (was Re: radeon lockups ...)
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 07:19:38AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Daniel Stone wrote: On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:04:00AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: It's GPL licensed unfortunately. Only MIT licensed code is accepted into XFree86, so this driver will never be included. That means once kernel 2.6 is standard, the majority of laptop users with synaptics touchpads will have to rely on their OS distribution to provide the GPL driver, or will have to compile it themselves. The only other option would be for someone to write a brand new driver for synaptics and license it as MIT, without looking at the GPL driver's source code. It's possible to do a clean room implementation, but I'm not sure if anyone would really want to bother when there's a working driver already. Well, couldn't the upstream author just relicense it? That depends on wether or not the code is original code, or if it is a derivative of any other GPL sources. It's possible theoretically, but dependant on the history of the code, and also the author(s) wishes. That was kind of implicit. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: patch for ia64
On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 09:40:43PM -0600, Marc Aurele La France wrote: You seem to be submitting a string of old patches, some of them twice. Why? These patches are all from the Debian packages. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.xwin.org Jeff doesn't use pants often. -- Pia Smith pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: patch to include some kernel info in banner
On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 09:04:42PM -0600, Marc Aurele La France wrote: On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Daniel Stone wrote: On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Warren Turkal wrote: This patch puts the kernel version in the banner, on Linux, and also whether or not it's tainted (providing it's a sufficiently recent kernel). Thanks to Mike Harris for this patch (slightly altered to remove RH_CUSTOM, etc). Please do not accept this Linux-specific hack of a patch; I merged it to Debian, and Mike asked me not to send it upstream. Granted, as the patch stands. However, I don't mind doing the minimal fixing up for inclusion, as this information would be extremely useful in some logs. Feel free to make it more generic and include it - that would definitely be cool. Why the extra symbol, if I may ask, instead merely using defined(linux)? I don't know, I just grabbed it off Mike and did s/RH_CUSTOM/KERNEL_VERSION_IN_BANNER/; I think RH_CUSTOM is a catch-all for Red Hat's whacky stuff. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.freedesktop.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: patch to include some kernel info in banner
On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Warren Turkal wrote: This patch puts the kernel version in the banner, on Linux, and also whether or not it's tainted (providing it's a sufficiently recent kernel). Thanks to Mike Harris for this patch (slightly altered to remove RH_CUSTOM, etc). Please do not accept this Linux-specific hack of a patch; I merged it to Debian, and Mike asked me not to send it upstream. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org - http://www.kde.org - http://www.xwin.org Jeff doesn't use pants often. -- Pia Smith pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: CVS Update: xc (branch: trunk)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 07:26:52AM +0200, Alexander Pohoyda wrote: Harold L Hunt II [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Note, I do get an hp file when I checkout xf-4_3_0_1, but then it tries to download the HP directory and freaks out on Cygwin. Is this the way that all other platforms work due to cvs, or is this specific to my platform because you can't have two files with the same name but different case? Yes, I think that this is a letter case problem. CVS on Cygwin does not see a difference in names, but feels a difference in object type (file vs. directory). Perforce on Windows has the same problems. Please manually delete `hp' file, and try `cvs update' again. Moving hp,v to hp.old,v on the server would also help a lot. Another sterling example of CVS's brokenness. :\ -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kde.org - http://www.debian.org - http://www.xwin.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Rant (was Re: ATI Drivers.)
On Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 02:22:10AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: I have no problem for them to go proprietary, but i would very much like a powerpc version of said drivers. Since both of them also release drivers for MacOSX, i guess this would not be very expensive to just rebuild powerpc versions of them. Or for other arches too. I think this is the cost the graphic companies have to pay for not releasing the source code. Perhaps if said companies business and marketing departments determine that producing PPC drivers will be in the best interests of their stockholders, they might decide to book engineering resources to produce PPC drivers. The lack of such drivers would indicate to me that there is not enough revenue predicted to be generated by allocating such resources that such drivers are more cost to develop than any financial gains received by doing so. I'm no financial analyst by any stretch of the imagination. Running a publically traded company on a charity basis however is a good way to upset stockholders. Another issue is if those drivers are in the least flaky, then you get very bad press for having dodgy drivers, so you're going to either have to dedicate heaps of resources, or none at all. I know what I'd be gunning for, if I had a BComm, or whatever. Try putting the engine of a Japanese car into an American made car. Then complain to Nissan that it doesn't work, and see how far you get. Nissan did make the V8 engine for the Holden VL Commodore, a typical Australian grunt car. :) If anything they'd likely get sued by 3rd party vendors whom they've licensed code and/or patented technology from, which they do not have the right to give away to the public. That includes both software, and hardware interfaces as well. Only the particular hardware vendor in question knows what IP they have in their hardware and drivers, and what they can do with that IP legally. Yep, and this goes quite deep: apparently they can't even release TV-Out specs, for fear of getting smacked down by Macrovision. You're really asking Kentucky Fried Chicken, to give the recipe for their 11 herbs and spices here, and the secret sauce. Pretty soon, half of the KFC customers have no need to go to KFC as they can make it at home. And McDonald's start selling Alabama Fried Chicken, so you can go to the one place for all your burger and chicken needs. Bzt. By the way, I have a recipe for chicken that legal jargon tastes very similar to, but is not KFC. I wonder if someone let the cat out of the bag at KFC one day, and this is the Colonel's secret recipe? I've got this black syrupy stuff that tastes just like Coke, too! Who knows. The chances of reverse engineering the kernel microcode engine from one of these drivers however is even much more likely than reverse engineering the KFC recipe by analyzing the molecular structure of the crispy crust. Aye. The problem with this view is that most people slam you for trying to kill open source or some crap, when you're being realistic. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kde.org - http://www.debian.org - http://www.xwin.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Rant (was Re: ATI Drivers.)
On Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 05:12:00AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Daniel Stone wrote: Not very many, and their competitirs would then have access to all their IP, so could out-do them in the next generation of cards. I doubt that it would involve hardware as much as it would involve the driver aspect and the JIT compiler for the GPU perhaps. Having never seen the complete source code of any modern proprietary full featured video driver however, it's very hard to say. Well, not all, but AIUI it's becoming less of a pure hardware situation, and more of intelligent software being required, and sort of showing your hand, so to speak. Then again, I'm *way* out of my depth here, so I'm likely to be way off the mark. I think Mark would probably be the most qualified to speak about this. ;) -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kde.org - http://www.debian.org - http://www.xwin.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Rant (was Re: ATI Drivers.)
On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 12:25:16PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: No, there you are exagerating. I hardly doubt that they would go broke or whatever if they released open source drivers. If anything, they would sell more boards. Not very many, and their competitirs would then have access to all their IP, so could out-do them in the next generation of cards. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kde.org - http://www.debian.org - http://www.xwin.org Configurability is always the best choice when it's pretty simple to implement -- Havoc Pennington, gnome-list pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Radeon 9000 If (RV250), Mac G4 (Wintunnel) problems with XFree86
On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:08:47PM +0100, John Leach wrote: Hi Michel, My attempts at using the binary have failed. X reports: (II) LoadModule: radeon (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules-dri-trunk/drivers/radeon_drv.o (II) Module radeon: vendor=The XFree86 Project compiled for 4.3.99.5, module version = 4.0.1 Module class: XFree86 Video Driver ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.7 (EE) module ABI minor version (7) is newer than the server's version (6) (II) UnloadModule: radeon (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules-dri-trunk/drivers/radeon_drv.o (EE) Failed to load module radeon (module requirement mismatch, 0) I've tried and failed to build a new dri-trunk package incorporating the patch (most likely a newbie deb package building/xfree86 compiling problem). My package versions are: xserver-xfree86 4.2.1-6 the XFree86 X server xserver-xfree86-dri-trunk 2003.05.04-1 The XFree86 X server [DRI trunk] If this is due to your binary being compiled against a different version of X than my own, what can I do? Should I try it with a 4.3 server? (and if so, are some official debs available?) Could you compile it against a lower version for me? Or shall I just give up on this whilst somebody else with more xfree86 smarts tests it? :( 4.3.0 debs are available at: deb http://penguinppc.org/~daniels/sid/$(ARCH) ./ -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] KDE: Konquering a desktop near you - http://www.kde.org pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: TerminateServer Keycode combination broken ...
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 12:53:37PM +0600, Ivan Pascal scrawled: Even more. Keys such as Return, Escape, arrow keys, function keys and some other also are missing for nearly all symbol files. The thing is all those files are _partial_ keyboard symbol maps and must never be used alone. If you run a setxkbmap with a high verbose level xkbcomp layout name -v 10 you will see something like : ... Trying to build keymap using the following components: ... symbols:pc/pc(pc104)+pc/de or for some layouts you can get something like: ... symbols:en_US(pc104)+ca Thus you see a complete keyboard map is a combination of at least two files (actually more files are involved in the composition becouse each of files listed in the setxkbmap output can have an 'include' instruction which adds some other files to the final map). So what's the best way to get an Apple Pro keyboard working fully? -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer, Trinity College, University of Melbourne msg00251/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debugging in RH8?
On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 01:20:40PM -0800, Mark Vojkovich scrawled: Anyone have any tips on how to debug XFree86 modules under RH8? It looks like GDB hacked for modules doesn't work on that platform, or at least the version I have doesn't. Mark, Mike Harris is working on this in his latest package set, IIRC. -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer, Trinity College, University of Melbourne msg00152/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
