Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 03:01, Charlie Brady wrote: If we take axonlinux as a project that has travelled this path already, they built a new distro iso. To be very brief they essentially took a disto (SGI XFS) and added all the e-smith rpms that the distro did not include by default. After that you dive under the hood and test what works, what doesn't work, modify the templates as appropriate, rebuild rpms that need updating, add new rpms, bundle and build into a new iso... and axonlinux was born. So you are suggesting a project fork. That's a lot of work, and fragments the community. So you should have very good justification for proposing is. I saw nowhere where he proposed a project fork. The way I read it, he was suggesting that we take a look at what axon did to see what can be adapted to the current version of SME. Perfectly sensible idea to me. I'm going to add my voice (one time only) to this growing problem of the way that both you and Darrell get along - *both* of you seem to snipe at each other wherever you see the opportunity. I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding your argument with Darrell, nor the cause of E-smith (at the time) terminating the partner agreement with Darrell, nor do I wish to become involved in a discussion (=flame war) on the issue. What I *will* say is that both your attitudes are detrimental to the further development of SME as (IMO) the best server/gateway solution for those of us that do not understand Linux as well as others. I beg both of you to *please* take a step back and try not to shoot barbs at each other. Darrell does a *hell* of a lot of good work on SME which I am very grateful for. You (and the rest of the Mitel team) do a great job of trying to work out issues that are intelligently reported to you, even when they're the result of operator idiocy. Of course people's priorities are going to be different, and people have different ways of dealing with these differences. All I'm saying is that baiting (and sometimes, outright abusing) each other gets nobody anywhere. Rant off. I've said my bit, and it's now up to both of you to decide what to do. Flames /dev/null, please... -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] krud? + X]
Damien Curtain [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And thats going well... At least they tried. No one else has done better. Im not sure how in touch people here are with kernel development, because I wouldnt be rushing to stick the latest and greatest 2.4 kernel on any machine other than crash and burn machines, choose your 2.4 kernel very carefully, ask anyone who used 2.4.11... Good point and exactly why I thought to not use a standard RedHat release and instead favour a distro, like 'krud' or 'SGI XFS' that releases a bug patched kernel. In fact maybe a return to revisit SGI XFS is warranted. They have a tremendously large high availability server base and their kernel build is more thoroughly tested. Regards, -- Darrell May DMC Netsourced.com http://netsourced.com http://myEZserver.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] krud? + X]
Damien Curtain [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And thats going well... At least they tried. No one else has done better. What has happened to axonlinux? -- Regards Brandon Friedman Product Manager Tech-Knowledgy Advantage Ph: +27 (011) 486-0626 Fax: +27 (011) 486-0629 Cell: +27 (083) 408-7840 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.techknowledgy.co.za PO Box 1909, Houghton, 2041 South Africa No. 1 Mowbray Road, Greenside, Johannesburg, South Africa Mitel Networks Authorized Partners -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] krud? + X]
I haven't had much trouble with Mandrake 8.1 systems other than their update system not being able to automatically install their kernel update. The things you get with it are built-in support for installing on raid, with or without LFS and all of the journal file systems, automatic device detection for things like USB ethernet adapters and wireless cards, and an install disk that works pretty well as a rescue disk and attempts to detect and mount existing partitions. Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Craig Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:44 AM To: Devinfo@E-Smith. Org Subject: RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] krud? + X] Anecdotal Evidence (tm) says that the RedHat 2.4.9 (includes patches) is the most reliable. (ie less panics _and_ page faults) I think the recent slashdot.org discussion also displayed a preference for RH2.4.9. So a stock Red Hat kernel isn't *that* bad after all :) I also think it's more appropriate to ask, What does 2.4.x bring to that table feature and reliability wise? For me, it's iptables and XFS/ext3/ReiserFS support. (Unless someone can show me a JFS for 2.2.x that works reliably and fits the e-smith^W Mitel model) Regards, Craig Foster -Original Message- From: Darrell May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2002 5:05 PM To: Damien Curtain; Darrell May Cc: stephen noble; e-smith-devinfo Subject: Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo] krud? + X] Good point and exactly why I thought to not use a standard RedHat release and instead favour a distro, like 'krud' or 'SGI XFS' that releases a bug patched kernel. In fact maybe a return to revisit SGI XFS is warranted. They have a tremendously large high availability server base and their kernel build is more thoroughly tested. Regards, -- Darrell May DMC Netsourced.com http://netsourced.com http://myEZserver.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
RE: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro [was Re: [e-smith-devinfo]krud? + X]
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Brandon Friedman wrote: Damien Curtain [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And thats going well... At least they tried. No one else has done better. What has happened to axonlinux? Disappeared without a trace. -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Darrell May wrote: If we take axonlinux as a project that has travelled this path already, they built a new distro iso. To be very brief they essentially took a disto (SGI XFS) and added all the e-smith rpms that the distro did not include by default. After that you dive under the hood and test what works, what doesn't work, modify the templates as appropriate, rebuild rpms that need updating, add new rpms, bundle and build into a new iso... and axonlinux was born. Skill level required to do the above is high but anyone with time and resources may challenge this. Unfortunately I am deeply involed in other major projects at the moment. If someone else would lead this project I will offer my assistance to get you going. I followed axonlinux and have enough knoweldge myself to be at least a resource that might know an answer or two ;- As time permits and as my schedule clears, I'll be happy to join in a more fuller capacity. So you are suggesting a project fork. That's a lot of work, and fragments the community. So you should have very good justification for proposing is. Would it not be better to develop a HOWTO for a 2.4 kernel upgrade (not difficult) and for an ext3 file system conversion (more difficult, but quite doable)? -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Charlie Brady wrote: So you are suggesting a project fork. That's a lot of work, and fragments the community. So you should have very good justification for proposing is. Sorry - for proposing it. To put it another way, what's wrong with this scenario? I don't like the bathroom. We need to make a new house. -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
Just to put in my $0.02 worth (heavily over-valued actually), I've been happy with the direction so far. opinion I have always seen this server as the Swiss Army Buzzsaw of Linux distributions, and really enjoy the ability to do the add, subtract, modify, delete routine for any and all functionality that I could ask for, due in large part to the great HowTo's of the devinfo community. As far as the addition of SME as an overlay to another distro, if you change the case too much, the blades don't fit. I'd like to see it go more towards the other side - a solid and robust base distro/framework that allows the end user to set up whatever combo of mix-n-match tools required to provide the functions they need on that server. idea (Hmmm, can we add a pick and choose list of preconfigured base server types/blades/whatever during install? Let's see, one from column A, and two from column B. Can I get eggrolls with that? - ;) /idea You want a LTSP server or a Manhattan Classroom or a firewall/mail/web server, just add the right combo of blades. Just be smart about how much you expose on the outside interface! The 2.4 kernel non-support of PPTP, IPSEC, RealAudio, H323, ICQ, etc. is an important issue for the use as a gateway. Those masq modules WILL eventually be ported from 2.2 and we can move up to it then. Keep it compatible with RH base distro, for ease of building new functions, but keep it stable. It's a unique product and a unique concept that actually IS what the whole Open Source thing is about - I really **CAN** have it my way! /opinion Thanks to each and every one of you, Mitel or not, who contribute in ANY way to this excellent project!! 65% M$ free, and counting -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: So you are suggesting a project fork. That's a lot of work, and fragments the community. So you should have very good justification for proposing is. Well it is only a project fork if Mitel does not join in and follow along with the community ;- Comments have been mentioned that 2.4 kernel has limitations. So what. Isn't that what a development project is all about? I am not talking about a production release here. I'm talking a bleeding edge development release. We move forward, we find what works, what doesn't work, but the goal is to develop the next SME release. Would it not be better to develop a HOWTO for a 2.4 kernel upgrade (not difficult) and for an ext3 file system conversion (more difficult, but quite doable)? If Mitel wants this to be developed on a particular platform, in a particular way, how about taking a leadership role and: - publish a development roadmap - issue a HOWTO for a 2.4 kernel upgrade - issue a HOWTO for ext3 file system conversion If Mitel does their part, I know the devinfo community will at least start to accomplish the rest. This way we do not create a project fork, we simply create a development project and we all continue to work towards the goal of making SME better. Regards, -- Darrell May DMC Netsourced.com http://netsourced.com http://myEZserver.com -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Darrell May wrote: Comments have been mentioned that 2.4 kernel has limitations. So what. Isn't that what a development project is all about? I am not talking about a production release here. I'm talking a bleeding edge development release. We've been hoping to get one of those put together, but immediate business needs have always taken precedence. Meanwhile, you had AxonLinux. I didn't see any serious investigation of its relative strengths and weaknesses. Would it not be better to develop a HOWTO for a 2.4 kernel upgrade (not difficult) and for an ext3 file system conversion (more difficult, but quite doable)? If Mitel wants this to be developed on a particular platform, in a particular way, Mitel doesn't want this, you and other members of this mailing list wants it. how about taking a leadership role and: - publish a development roadmap - issue a HOWTO for a 2.4 kernel upgrade - issue a HOWTO for ext3 file system conversion These are all things that any of us here could do if we put our minds and sufficient hours to it. Why should Mitel's owners fund this development, if they don't see it as a pressing business need? If Mitel does their part, I know the devinfo community will at least start to accomplish the rest. Mitel does its part, IMO. This way we do not create a project fork, we simply create a development project and we all continue to work towards the goal of making SME better. Great. Let's get back to work then, shall we? -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
sufficient hours to it. Why should Mitel's owners fund this development, if they don't see it as a pressing business need? This topic must be on Mitel's roadmap? Mitel can't possible hope to stick with the 2.2 kernel for the long term. Correct me if I'm wrong Darrell, but it appears that Darrell is trying to prevent a project fork, like Axon, by kicking off a project that goes to Mitel's long term goal for SME.. For example, at one point the type of journaling file system to be used was discussed. It would certainly be nice to get a consensus on this type of topic before blazing down a path. I can certainly understand apprehension at spending development time on HOWTOs and what not. Would it be possible to generate some type of list of wants/needs (e.g., type of file system). Maybe someone in the community could create this and then get input from the Mitel folks??? Regards, -- Greg J. Zartman, P.E. Vice-President Logging Engineering International, Inc. 1243 West 7th Avenue Eugene, Oregon 97402 541-683-8383fax 541-683-8144 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Greg Zartman wrote: sufficient hours to it. Why should Mitel's owners fund this development, if they don't see it as a pressing business need? This topic must be on Mitel's roadmap? Mitel can't possible hope to stick with the 2.2 kernel for the long term. Yes, correct on both counts. What I should have said was Why should Mitel's owners fund this development *now* ... -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
Hey Gang; Time for me to speak up I guess. I think the idea of creating a list of wanted and needed features and capabilities of the next releases IS part of what a developers mailing list should be about. I also feel that Mitel and its representatives should support this affirmatively, even if that only means that they are not caustic toward such efforts. I mentioned several days ago just such a question to Darrell May in a private conversation. I also mentioned that IF an rpm based distribution of a red hat nature was to be the base, then perhaps a look at the KRUD distro might be in order. The rest is what has brought us around to Greg's posting quoted below. Now is perhaps the time to speak up, perhaps not. What is important for me, is what the product will look like, and what it may or may not offer my clients in the future. It is also important to decide what that development is suppose to accomplish, and what part each of us can play. So, I agree with Greg; time to make a list of what you, the developers and users of this distro expect it to provide YOU and YOUR CUSTOMERS. Otherwise someone else will decide for you. Bob Finch Computers That Work On Wednesday 06 February 2002 04:42 pm, you wrote: sufficient hours to it. Why should Mitel's owners fund this development, if they don't see it as a pressing business need? This topic must be on Mitel's roadmap? Mitel can't possible hope to stick with the 2.2 kernel for the long term. Correct me if I'm wrong Darrell, but it appears that Darrell is trying to prevent a project fork, like Axon, by kicking off a project that goes to Mitel's long term goal for SME.. For example, at one point the type of journaling file system to be used was discussed. It would certainly be nice to get a consensus on this type of topic before blazing down a path. I can certainly understand apprehension at spending development time on HOWTOs and what not. Would it be possible to generate some type of list of wants/needs (e.g., type of file system). Maybe someone in the community could create this and then get input from the Mitel folks??? Regards, -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
My only idea. ( dont have many) A distro that at install time, asks what bits you want. As example we have a ESSG box behind a firewall/gateway so don't need masq. Also same for appletalk protocol. Dial up same. Karl -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
Re: [e-smith-devinfo] SME on top of a distro
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Karl Ponsonby wrote: My only idea. ( dont have many) A distro that at install time, asks what bits you want. As example we have a ESSG box behind a firewall/gateway so don't need masq. This choice you get when you choose serveronly or servergateway (at initial boot time, not install time). Also same for appletalk protocol. This you currently need to do at the command line, or using Jay s servive-control contrib. Dial up same. This you get to choose at config time. Is there really that much advantage in having this choice at install time? Remember that the more choices you have at install time, the longer the install cycle is. People really like the c. 6 minutes install time of the SME server. -- Charlie Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lead Product Developer Network Server Solutions Grouphttp://www.e-smith.com/ Mitel Networks Corporationhttp://www.mitel.com/ Phone: +1 (613) 368 4376 or 564 8000 Fax: +1 (613) 564 7739 -- Please report bugs to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only) to discuss security issues Support for registered customers and partners to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives by mail and http://www.mail-archive.com/devinfo%40lists.e-smith.org
