RE: [DDN] user demand for openoffice 2.0 books
Mike wrote: Saying something like this as fact and not as an opinion, not to mention no factual backup, is irresponsible and slanderous. It has no place on this list in my view. I think it is a legit opinion. If MS doesn't like it, they can sue. I wasn't aware that it was the place of this list to guard the propriety of MS's reputation or to protect it against slanderous statements. It is stated as an opinion (I wouldn't be surprised if they were.) and would be difficult to read in any other way. Apple took (or tried - they may have backed off - I don't remember) all the books by an author who wrote an unauthorized bio of Steve Jobs off of the shelves of Apple stores. Therefore, the potential or real censorship of publications by mega-corporations as it relates to access to OSS or the DD in any way is a legitimate topic for this list. As this activity - censorship - is not unprecedented, I don't see why stating opinions about them should be off-limits or considered slanderous. Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] bill gates transitions
C'mon Don - Please don't get caustic. There is a difference between a mission and an opinion. I wish you luck in your mission of moving the leviathans. I think this thread has in fact seen better days. Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] bill gates transitions
Don - Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really mischaracterized it when I said over and over that the big boys - MS in particular - haven't done anything for me. What I really meant...seriously, I should have spent more time talking about what I believe is the hard-wired behavior of these mega-corporations. They behave like governments, but their only voters are the shareholders. Also, because of their size, relationships with governments (see all the news pieces about Google and MS and their relationships with China), and economic reach, it takes more than a nudge to influence them. It has been shown over and over again that the creative side of this stuff has nothing to do with size. These outfits become as big and over-reaching as they are in order to grab and hold market share; that is, to sell us lots and lots of stuff, and to make sure that it is more difficult for others to sell us lots and lots of stuff. I'm not trying to teach Econ 101 here - I'm just opining that it takes unified, concerted, hard-ball, POLITICAL action by huge numbers of people acting as a unit to budge these guys, kicking and screaming all the way. So IMO, we as a group or we as individual are much too teensy tiny to have much or any effect on the monsters. In this particular discussion I would say that outfits like MS, and to a lesser extent IBM (Dell too) are just glomming onto OSS, Linux in the server space especially, so they can sell us lots and lots of stuff while trying to prevent anyone else from doing so. That in and of itself isn't illegal or even evil, but it isn't really supportive of the OSS movement and it isn't particularly expending OSS's market share. They just figure that a certain percentage of the market will go with Linux, and it may as well be us (MS, IBM, Dell, HP) that sells it to them. It could be argued that these guys help corrupt OSS by marketing it the same way they market all their other stuff. Maybe they pull an Apple and couch it as some sort of alternative way of doing things, but in the end it seems to me that it really is just the same old marketers, marketing in the same old way, without much or any concern with elements of the market that aren't damn near as big as they are! I just think it is the nature of the beast to eat everything that it can reach and that in the end we are better off breaking these outfits up into politically manageable pieces so that there is real diversity in the marketplace, not just a couple of leviathans pretending to offer diversity or offering strictly on their own terms. Jesse Sinaiko Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Ken - If we didn't have to prove over and over again that we have the right to use our version of Windows (or whatever) I would have such a beef. Plus, it is difficult to respect Microsoft's intellectual property when MS itself runs roughshod over other entities property and does it's best to stifle competition while treating honest consumers like crooks. It isn't that we have to prove things - that's fine - but we have to do it over and over and over. I should not have to call MS every time I need to reinstall XP (or whatever) on my machine. Also, I think that their dishonesty about how they are beta testing WGA is more than an image issue. It goes to the heart of how they do business. They get away with whatever they can, ethics or fair play be damned, and that isn't kosher if they expect the computing public to respect their intellectual property and play fair. That said, IMO, their model is so bad, the marketplace will take care of them eventually. My guess is that the moment someone comes up with a desktop version of Linux that really has the same flexibility and ease of use as Windows, Windows will be toast. Looking at the minimum specs for Vista, I wonder how well it will do. We'll see. I understand intellectual property laws, but there are limits, especially when we are not talking about commercial reproduction. Squeezing every last penny out of something isn't always good business beyond the PR aspects of the matter. I'm just tired of being treated like a crook when in fact I'm as honest about buying licensed software as you are. There really has to be a better way. Jesse Sinaiko Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Right now there is a huge stink around the MS anti-piracy software, euphemistically called Windows Genuine Advantage. Turns out that they've been using their critical update feature to download and test new versions of this DRM/validation software. The thing phones home, effectively making it spyware, and although the truth was in the EULA fine print, MS was not at all clear about what the true nature of this critical update was. Pretty dirty. And all in the name of preventing folks from stealing their property; Windows. Furthermore, has anyone here ever had to call India to try to get a new product code for XP because after a reformat and reinstall the old product key doesn't work? Not that I have anything against keeping people in Bangalore employed - must be an extremely boring job, reading long strings of numbers out over the phone all day - but the point is, all this is being done in the name of rip-off or piracy prevention. Really annoying to be treated like a thief for trying to reinstall some software that went pear-shaped because it is full of holes and gets infected easily. Without that profit motive - at least not one as strong and all-encompassing as Microsoft's - none of this silliness would be necessary. We can argue all we want about the advantages of proprietary or open source software, but there's something wrong with the [proprietary] model when one has to prove ownership OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I own a house - do I need to show my title to it every time someone asks me who owns it? I own a car. O need to show a cop my license when he stops me - that's proof of my right to drive - and my registration - proof I've paid tax on the car - but I don't ever remember being asked to prove I own the thing! A royal pain in the ass. Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Missing the point .....
Linus Torvalds is actually on record for saying something similar to this... that the user *shouldn't* have to care what OS they are using, they should be focusing on the applications they use. This point - made by Torvalds and brought here by Taran brings up a point about what an OS actually is, and what proprietary vendors - MS in particular (doh!) - have made the OS, at least the Windows OS. Windows has become the Swiss army knife of the operating system arena. Because it is a proprietary, profit-driven outfit, MS understands the limitations of an OS in the true sense of the term and turns it into the only software you will ever have to install on your computer. With the advent of web-based applications, word processing and spreadsheets in particular, everything else anyone could ever possibly want EVER is integrated into Windows. All that will be in Windows Vista, plus lots and lots of stuff everyone really, really needs but doesn't know it yet. Making the OS an application-heavy bit of one size-fits-all software actually limits choice and stifles innovation, in spite of Steve Ballmer's assertion that the only innovative operation on the planet is MS. In this sense, the last real OS put out by MS was Windows 2000 in 1999, and that had a lot of superfluous gunk in it too. As long as MS can play with the language and call their Windows software an operating system we will be stuck in this debate. Maybe if we can think up a term to correctly characterize Windows as something other than an OS we will have taken a step forward. We can then look at real operating systems and deal with Windows in the niche it actually belongs in, which is not the OS space IMHO. Jesse Sinaiko Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Intel: Poor Want 'Real' Computers (fwd)
I would be curious to know where Mr. Barrett gets all this information about what poor people want and/or will accept. Not that he's necessarily wrong, but for me it gets tiresome listening to the Great and the Good pontificating about what the third world and/or economically excluded populations want or need. It's like that suit that MS brought a few years ago against that guy in Australia who was loading Win 95 and 3.1 into ancient 486s to send to Timor right after the war ended. He said to MS you guys no longer sell or support these systems and the donated machines I have will not take anything newer. MS said we have a great NPO program where you can get up to date OSs for very little. He replied again, these computers won't take Win 98 or XP, and anyhow, I don't have the very little you charge. See you in court. Let's see what a jury has to say. Of course MS backed down. My point is, could Mr. Barrett be trying to sell some pricey P-4 dual-core chips to Timor? This sounds more like fear-based marketing than any sort of statement based on fact or experience to me. This debate has gone on for months on this list. It has been one of the best and most relevant - not to say impassioned - conversations I've seen in a long time. Maybe it's the Simputer. Maybe the MIT $100 laptop. Maybe old refurbed P-IIs. Maybe some or none of the above. This much I know: everyone who has posted has had valid points to make. And I would venture that everyone who has posted has more experience, more understanding and far more knowledge of the issues that surround computing and associated fields of any sort in the economically and socially excluded parts of our globe than Mr. Barrett. Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Taran Rampersad wrote: But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think. Taran - Why? What are the real-world advantages to palmtop as opposed to laptop? For myself, I can't stand the microscopic screens on palm-type machines and many, many others have the same issue. I don't understand the advantages beyond the fact that one slings over one's shoulder and other can fit into a large pocket. That's nice, but by no means crucial. So why move to more expensive, less adaptable technology? My laptop is a P-II 450. Runs XP fine. It's heavier than the newest laptops but it does the job, and if it gets clobbered or gorked, no big deal. So I agree with Mike; let's get all the surplus laptops we can out to those who need them NOW and worry about micro/nano tech later. Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] MSIE Isn't the Only Standards Killer
How the brave new world of Google is helping to destroy standards-based design. As sites jump through the hoops that Google and others of its ilk demand, good design and usability go out the window (no pun intended). http://www.cnet.com/4520-6033_1-6217815-1.html?tag=nl.e501 Jesse Sinaiko Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] emergency alert emails get treated like spam (fwd)
Taran wrote: ...I continuously wonder why RSS isn't used instead of email... Most people use MSIE. In their infinite wisdom, the good people at MS have failed to integrate RSS into MSIE. If you want to reach the maximum number of people because there are 120 MPH winds bearing down on you, RSS won't do the trick. Soon hopefully, but not now. One of the many reasons why dependence on MS is one of the main reasons the web is so screwed up. They really are very irresponsible above and beyond their nasty and often illegal business practices. RSS makes total sense, but according to the gurus at MS, RSS isn't important enough to add via an update. It may or may not be included in the (supposedly) upcoming MSIE 7. Only 50 million Firefox downloads so far. A great number, but only a drop in the bucket in terms of the total number of browsers in use. Until MSIE has integrated RSS or someone (Google?) knocks off MS, anyone looking to maximize their Internet coverage has to do it the way MS dictates. It's very grating, but it's reality. And if I was a public safety official, I would need to understand that. Jesse Sinaiko - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chicago, IL ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: FW: [DDN] Simputer
Raymond wrote: If Microsoft has such a problem with people hacking into the loopholes of their closed source code, what type of malicious viruses will we begin seeing if an Open Source Operating system such as Linux becomes the dominant OS? I think we will see quick, decisive responses to hacks and vulnerabilities, as opposed to MS's lies, delays, and obstructions. Anyhow, in some parts of the world Linux is on its way to being the dominant OS. Brazil hasn't chosen Linux for its government's computers only because they don't want to send millions of dollars to Bill Gates; it's because they know they can deal with the problems that are bound to arise. Open source in and of itself doesn't make a system more vulnerable, but it does have an open and large community of programmers all over the world to fix it FAST when it breaks or when some crook finds an open back door. I'M somewhat confused about why you are worried about open source issues when the OS with problems is made by MS. Under the scenario you describe there is no point in using anything other than Windows because of potential problems. We already know what Windows is. Linux couldn't be any worse under any circumstances. Jesse Sinaiko ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
