[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Getting rid of 'oldref' in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Martin Srebotnjak 
Hi,
I dont remember this. Was it done for sl and sr as well? Probably I forgot
...
Lp, m.

19. dec. 2016 12.21 je oseba "Christian Lohmaier" 
napisala:

> HI Martin, *,
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Martin Srebotnjak 
> wrote:
> >
> > I do not mind this happening if it does not affect the l10n process.
>
> removing those context markers has been done already, and I think
> translators didn't notice, so I assume it won't affect the  process at
> all..
>
> ciao
> Chrisian
>

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[libreoffice-documentation] Doodle: TDF Marketing Call January 2017

2016-12-19 Thread Italo Vignoli 
Link to the Doodle is:

http://doodle.com/poll/rxt8ufr6d25bgqiz

We will discuss LibreOffice 5.3 announcement strategy and activities

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Getting rid of 'l10n' attribute in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Christian Lohmaier 
Hi *,

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Jan Holesovsky  wrote:
>
> As discussed in the other mails, 'l10n' is another attribute I'd like to
> remove from the help files.

No problem with that, editing with the helpauthoring extension will
also get rid of that attribute already.

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Getting rid of 'oldref' in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Christian Lohmaier 
HI Martin, *,

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
>
> I do not mind this happening if it does not affect the l10n process.

removing those context markers has been done already, and I think
translators didn't notice, so I assume it won't affect the  process at
all..

ciao
Chrisian

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[libreoffice-documentation] Getting rid of 'l10n' attribute in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Jan Holesovsky 
Hi,

As discussed in the other mails, 'l10n' is another attribute I'd like to
remove from the help files.

It is unused in the code, and the documentation says: "Contains the
localization status of the old help files and is only used for migration
purposes." - which has happened years and years ago with the helpcontent
-> helpcontent2 migration :-)

This should not affect the l10n process in any way.

OK to go ahead with this bulk change?

It means the following will be run:

  git grep -l '\' | xargs sed -i 's/\(]*\) 
l10n="[^"]*"/\1/g'

and a small follow-up cleanup for the paragraphs that don't have the
attribute on the same line.  Then I'd remove it from the DTD and
xmlhelp/util/compact.xsl too.

I'll wait until after the ESC call this week, for the case there are any
concerns :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Getting rid of 'oldref' in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Christian Lohmaier 
Hi *,

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 5:51 PM, khagaroth  wrote:
>> it seems the goal is to move away from .xhp to .xhtml
>>
> I hope you meant HTML 5, because XHTML is a dead end (and good riddance).

What will be in the installation set of course is independent of what
is used as the source-format.

And as kendy already noted, the source format has additional
requirements. (like being translated in a sensible way, i.e. po files
like it is now)

xml can be validated, and converted rather easily. (and of course it
is working already, no need to reinvent the wheel at this point)

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Getting rid of 'oldref' in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Christian Lohmaier 
Hi Jan, *,

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Jan Holesovsky  wrote:
> Jan Iversen píše v Pá 16. 12. 2016 v 16:27 +0100:
>
>> > this change is supposed to be transparent for L10n and
>> > Documentation teams, but they should know :-)
>>
>> It does not seem transparent for the few languages that do not use pootle 
>> (sl and sr) please do not forget those.
>
> Thanks for the reminder.  I hope Cloph can do the upgrade for them some
> way that fits them too, though?

I'll provide the script with which I'll do the auto-translation, so
depends on whether they are using same mechanism to update against the
new templates or not whether it will work without modifications (i.e.
either they have obsolete strings in the newly generated po files, or
they have to keep old po files to read the old translation from).

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Getting rid of 'oldref' in the help files

2016-12-19 Thread Jan Holesovsky 
Hi Olivier,

Olivier Hallot píše v So 17. 12. 2016 v 14:54 -0200:

> One thing I'd like to add for evaluation of using XML for the help
> contents in browsers is that,  in my experience:
> 
> *  XSLT (XML style sheets), XPath and XQuery  are another technologies
> to master.
> 
> * An error in a XSLT statement and one get  a blank page or a message
> with very little indications (Firefox)
> 
> * XSLT seems to be an aging technology. Is the industry betting in this
> technology for the future?
> 
> * Rendering XML+XSLT is browser-dependent and is not publicly/widely
> tested by W3C. We may be forced to test the results into a wide set of
> browsers.

Nothing stops us from rewriting the XLST transformation to plain
JavaScript, and handle the XHP files directly via JS if XSLT is blocking
us.  [And this is a reasonably self-contained, and easily testable task:
The XHP -> HTML conversion has to give the same results before and after
the rewrite for all the files.  We've got rid of XSLT in writerfilter
the same way few years ago.]

And maybe we'll eventually end up with using the plain HTML5 directly -
I definitely don't want to block evolution (even though at the moment I
see more drawbacks than gains).

But that's my main point - I want an evolution, not a revolution.  Every
time I hear about "helpcontent*3*" or "let's move to html5", I get
extremely scared, because such claims seem to suggest that we have to
throw away what we have & rewrite everything first, and miss what we
want to achieve in the first place; which from what I know is:

1) add multimedia content

2) make the editing easier

But neither 1) nor 2) have html5 (or a complete rewrite) as a
pre-requisite, for both these goals there is an incremental upgrade path
possible: Improving XHP step by step.

All the best,
Kendy


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