[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
At 9:05 PM -0400 7/10/03, Robert S.Z. wrote: ... I'm talking about paper. My point is that nowadays we exchange paper for gold, whereas as recently as 30 years ago we exchanged metal backed paper for other metal backed paper, in essence metal for metal. I see. Well, as others have pointed-out, governments (not just the US government) have done a poor job at doing a currency because of natural pressures on them which don't exist on a private corporation such as e-gold that can concentrate on doing what is a deceptively- tough job. I did NOT say what everybody seems to think I said, namely that they did not charge both ways. I did say, two tangible items where exchanged. e-gold is NOT tangible per say. My whole point is that not that it's a bad thing to make a profit as an exchanger but that it's simply insane from a marketing point of view to call it fee and express it in percentage. Well, if that's true, the marketplace shall prove you right! I don't think most customers think in grams yet, or have a coin/nugget (have I said that everyone should own a nugget lately? It's TRUE!!!). e-gold also might seem more tangible the longer you use it, and this probably colors my arguments here. Of course I still believe that that outexchange should be hit much more than inexchange, but fear that the only way to do this is to set an example. And spare me the sour remarks about how it isn't possible, because merchants have the edge on this one. You see, we actually earn gold. Meaning, we get it at zero surcharge. Exchangers often have to deal with Omnipay or each other and pay fees, we don't. It's a weird argument...You seem to wish to pay more if you're ever to get fiat currency than you otherwise would, to dissuade folks from ever doing outexchanges, I guess. I just don't see the need. The system will just grow at a natural rate IMO, with weirdnesses like outexchange after 9/11 (when I'd have been BUYING gold, BTW!) flattening out over time as sensible people bail in more gold bars. Imagine cyfrocash.com would offer all customers to buy e-gold on the spot at market, 2 minute delivery - and yes - we could! Stocks are not large enough yet and we still need a few more people to join the gang, but it will happen. I don't want to ruin anyone, I just want to proof a point. ... Awesome! That's doing it!! Go for it!! JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
There's a lot of new stuff that e-gold has pioneered, but the exchange business isn't new at all, and how to do it hasn't changed for eons. JMR And exactly that is where most people compare apples to pears. Your eons have less than 100 history to them! Sit back for a moment, think and answer me this: The oft quoted 'exchangers in the temple of biblical times, what did they exchange'? Gold for Silver? Gold for Gold? Silver for Silver? Coin for Coin? Since when exactly where exchangers starting to exchange gold for paper? And when did the paper loose it's implied metal backing? Now we are down to 30 years for an eon. Heck, I did learn about inflation, but you guys really take the cake sometimes. Reminds me of certain Germans who had built and conquered a Thousand Years Reich that crumbled 988 years early. At least their paper was exchangeable for silver at no surcharge. Cheers, Robert. Still hosting for e-gold at minimal surcharge. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net budget privacy domain registrations + mail http://www.u2planet.com/cfdomaintrust.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
Probably about one day after paper currency was invented! -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- a simplified timeline of money from 9000 BC onward: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/moolah/history.html pretty picture timeline here: http://www.ptma.org/money.htm where we learn of the first tyrant that seized everyone's gold and silver, giving back paper money in return. He made rejecting the paper money a capital offense. possibly also interesting: http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/moneychangers.html where it is stated that the priestly authorities [biblical moneychangers] took a large percentage on every transaction nil novi sub sole jay w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQEVAwUBPw3nc8yM0YPqVE7FAQH5mAgAh2+dxRfRws7Bgfd24F9YMzOAcmcPRLJy ubsd+owPq3ERMmsfmK09zrirhNIJSZlY4ivbM+mSruBsJYL/UK//8RL8bj1zTie9 ScoAj8ru5e6EwMcNuzptQ/69HiJfmtz3cCvQRbxLbQ+dBKFJ5rnCklzXpPquSzQI 1SaFRNp0GZiHgC0bdz3Yxm/hiTxTFKfgc3a0nvbn3cLWPdkxFDim5U3HsC+JnSv9 Oy8KL6DjKz5r8UB7DMoYLw6G5yifPSElaGCEfjTNb3dEnw+dxDMhzAe++YWbNUE4 IRYLO9t6N+cctSldWjvuI9Ht4BNNIraFJD30UN5Ilv0oop+MJMUEDQ== =Lm1r -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
At 4:37 PM -0400 7/10/03, Robert S.Z. wrote: ... Your eons have less than 100 history to them! Currency exchange is a *LOT* older than that! I'm talking about paper. My point is that nowadays we exchange paper for gold, whereas as recently as 30 years ago we exchanged metal backed paper for other metal backed paper, in essence metal for metal. I did NOT say what everybody seems to think I said, namely that they did not charge both ways. I did say, two tangible items where exchanged. e-gold is NOT tangible per say. My whole point is that not that it's a bad thing to make a profit as an exchanger but that it's simply insane from a marketing point of view to call it fee and express it in percentage. Of course I still believe that that outexchange should be hit much more than inexchange, but fear that the only way to do this is to set an example. And spare me the sour remarks about how it isn't possible, because merchants have the edge on this one. You see, we actually earn gold. Meaning, we get it at zero surcharge. Exchangers often have to deal with Omnipay or each other and pay fees, we don't. Imagine cyfrocash.com would offer all customers to buy e-gold on the spot at market, 2 minute delivery - and yes - we could! Stocks are not large enough yet and we still need a few more people to join the gang, but it will happen. I don't want to ruin anyone, I just want to proof a point. They probably exchanged various kinds of scrip for various kinds of coins, of varying purity (and if you think they didn't make money both ways, on bid and ask, you're nuts!!!). Exactement, mon ami! BID and ASK! Not imposed surcharge that resembles a tax. Wait a second, are you assuming that the only debasement of currency happened in the US? (Go read: The Decline and Fall of the Holy Roman Empire and then come back and say that!) No I don't. I'm a bit of a history buff and can tell you that debasement started much earlier and was responsible for the fact that Greece never got an actual empire and for the Phonecians to keep Rome at bay for so long (Hannibal basically crossed the Alps to collect debts). The difference was however that debasement was done by slowly changing the purity of gold in coins. There had been a few attempts to introduce placeholders (tenders) to represent gold - a type of paper currency if you will - but they usually failed in the first generation or because of capital flight and subsequent wars. But it's still besides the point, because my argument was about the fact that we are now exchanging paper for numbers on a screen, while until not too long ago people exchanged for papers/metals for papers/metals. but you guys really take the cake sometimes. Reminds me of certain Germans who had built and conquered a Thousand Years Reich that crumbled 988 years early. At least their paper was exchangeable for silver at no surcharge. Oh?! Source?? (I'm betting exchanges, even back then, did not operate as a charity!). Germany repalced the R-Mark with Rechsmark in 1934. The Reichsmark was exchangable for Silver in 5 Mark denominated coins until 1939. Of course, it was illegal to abuse (melt) the coins or indeed to export them. This together with building infrastructure (create jobs) was the reason the frigging Nazis were so successful. They gave their country a stable currency and hope. I repeat: exchange has not changed for EONS! --- For Eons people exchange one item they could touch for another. They could wear it around their neck, pack it into small leather bags and hit each other over the head with and do lots of other useful stuff with it. Then came paper - exchangeable for metal, then came paper. Period. Now we are exchanging paper for numbers on a screen and instead of changing 18 drachmes for 2 and 3/4 dirhams or 10 talents, we exchange a lie (Fiat) for a promise (e-gold). And you say nothing changed? Last but not least, records of the Phonecian money changer guild reported an increased profit for three year before the Romans got their butts kicked in Spain because traders that docked in Carthage could exchange Roman Sesterzes 10:1 for Dirham but only 8:1 when they left and tried to exchange their surplus back. PUNITIVE outexchange. And now you know why I'm so fond of using that word. It comes from the puni or punic. The name the Romans gave the Phoencians because they couldn't pronounce 'Phoe'. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net budget privacy domain registrations + mail http://www.u2planet.com/cfdomaintrust.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
where we learn of the first tyrant that seized everyone's gold and silver, giving back paper money in return. He made rejecting the paper money a capital offense. --- Isn't this again comparing apples with pears? The example does NOT show any exchange practices between paper and gold, does it? If it's illegal to own gold, how can it be exchanged? possibly also interesting: http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/moneychangers.html where it is stated that the priestly authorities [biblical moneychangers] took a large percentage on every transaction Priestly authorities are temple tax collectors not exchangers. They were enting the spots in the outer yard to traders and exchangers and taking a percentage of their trades. IN AURORUM VERITAS Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net budget privacy domain registrations + mail http://www.u2planet.com/cfdomaintrust.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
Came across this today on Ralph F. Wilson's Web Commerce Today, www.wilsonweb.com, it is from a paid I kind of like the part where he says; Others like e-gold seem dead on arrival. This quote will surely earn him a spot in the most laughable quotes hall of fame. Lourens and then there was a == Download ringtones, logos and picture messages at Ananzi Mobile Fun. http://www.ananzi.co.za/cgi-bin/goto.pl?mobile --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
Amen, reverend. What leaves me most puzzled is that just about everyone seems to think that e-gold is a great thing and a blessing to all mankind if it wasn't for the surcharge on in-exchange. The only real exemption to this way of thinking appear to be exchangers and punters, with the prior earning money from it and the latter thinking that their winnings will make up for the fee manyfold. Both are of course correct. Exchangers need the fee because they don't trust each other enough to cooperate and agree on punitive out-exchange fees and for punters it makes no difference because they are highly likely to loose all of it one way or another anyway. So run with the wolves then. If you can't beat them, at least bite them. You should all become exchangers and open casinos! Well, we for one, don't need to go to that extreme. We host merchants and gaming sites and facilitate exchangers. So we are on the winning end of both sides - but, we could make much more - on both ends - if more people would start using the system. Which they would, if there wasn't the surcharge. On the other hand, how could we charge exchangers for our services if they didn't have the income from their fees? In the end, I am sure, everyone will see the light and there won't be in-exchange surcharges anymore. Then we will all feel good about punishing the traitors that want to out-exchange. Then new money will come into the little economy we all share and suddenly there will be sporadic e-gold shortages, which will lead to _natural_ increases in the price of e-gold, rather than enforced ones. And that in turn, will have outsiders write about the benefits of a thriving online economy where the market rules supreme. What would you like us to host for you today? Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net budget privacy domain registrations + mail http://www.u2planet.com/cfdomaintrust.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold according to Ralph Wilson
At 5:22 AM -0400 7/8/03, Robert S.Z. wrote: ... In the end, I am sure, everyone will see the light and there won't be in-exchange surcharges anymore. Then we will all feel good about punishing the traitors that want to out-exchange. Then new money will come into the little economy we all share and suddenly there will be sporadic e-gold shortages, which will lead to _natural_ increases in the price of e-gold, rather than enforced ones. And that in turn, will have outsiders write about the benefits of a thriving online economy where the market rules supreme. ... Where the market rules, exchangers have for thousands of years done what's being done now by OmniPay. When various governments, for example, try to punish traitors (good word!) for wanting other kinds of paper instead of approved-paper, the market just reacts and adapts. I don't think everyone will see the light if the light is something that real currency-markets have rejected, consistently, for literally thousands of years...There's a lot of new stuff that e-gold has pioneered, but the exchange business isn't new at all, and how to do it hasn't changed for eons. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
