Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[AE4PB]

Hi Frank, 

I don’t know the manf or part number. This is ½ hard cable from the cable 
company that I received as a gift from very fine OM K4MQG, Gary Dixon.

I just guessed at the freq for 10m. I don’t use the band so I just put 
something in. 

The extra digits are a result of the number used as the numerator in the 
calculation and I didn’t want to round it because I’ll convert that to inches 
and add a bit before I actually cut. 

I used 80% for the vf

Thank you Frank !!

 

My antenna purchase (Hustler 6BTV ) is slightly delayed (holding onto cash 
until after the pandemic). 

I can still get the radial and coax work done. 

Jerry – AE4PB

73

.. 

 

From: donov...@starpower.net  
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 2:27 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

 

Hi Jerry,

 

What coax do you plan to use (manufacturer and part number)?

 

Did you intentionally use 27 MHz in the last row?

 

Your other calculations look good but you carried them to far too many

significant digits when the Vf of most coax (especially CATV coax)

is only approximate.

 

Cut your coax ten percent too long, leave the end of the coax open circuited.

Your antenna analyzer will then set the length very accurately.

 

73

Frank

W3LPL

 

  _  

From: ae...@carolinaheli.com <mailto:ae...@carolinaheli.com> 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 12:53:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

So I found a formula for feedline length and just need some eyes on it to make 
sure I applied it correctly. 
I want to measure twice and  cut once. Then I can use my antenna analyzer with 
a dummy load on the line to trim it. 

The columns are band, freq in Mhz, Multiplier to give multiples of the 1/2 wave 
length.
You have to view the email full screen width or the tables wrap making it hard 
to read. 
It looks like 111.7694545 feet is the calculated half wavelength for 80m 
(3.53Mhz), not sure what will happen on 30m as it's closest length appears to 
occur at 3 wavelengths where the feedline would be about 4.801946936 Feet too 
long. 
Not sure what the SWR related losses will be but it will probably be ok. 

BANDFreq 1   2  
  2.53  3.5 
 4  4.5   5 
 5.5  6 6 6.5   
 7 7.58
803.52111.7694545223.5389091279.4236364
335.3083636391.1930909447.0778182502.9625455
558.8472727614.732670.6167273726.5014545
782.3861818838.2709091894.1556364
407.0455.88472727111.7694545139.7118182
167.6541818195.5965455223.5389091251.4812727
279.4236364307.366335.3083636363.2507273
391.1930909419.1354545447.0778182
3010.12538.8571338377.7142676597.14283457   
 116.5714015135.684155.4285353174.8571022
194.2856691213.714236233.142803252.5713699
271.368291.4285037310.8570706
2014.0827.9423636455.8847272769.85590909
83.8270909197.79827273111.7694545125.7406364
139.7118182153.683167.6541818181.6253636
195.5965455209.5677273223.5389091
1521.418.3845084136.7690168245.96127103
55.1535252364.3457794473.5380336482.73028785
91.92254206101.1147963110.3070505119.4993047
128.6915589137.8838131147.0760673
102714.5714251929.1428503736.42856296
43.7142755650.881558.2857007465.57141333
72.8571259380.1428385287.4285511194.7142637
101.763109.2856889116.5714015

Formula used: L = (S * W * Vf)/f


S 983.5712  
  
W0.5

VF0.8   
 983.5712
L = (S

Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[donovanf]

Hi Jerry, 


What coax do you plan to use (manufacturer and part number)? 



Did you intentionally use 27 MHz in the last row? 


Your other calculations look good but you carried them to far too many 
significant digits when the Vf of most coax (especially CATV coax) 
is only approximate. 


Cut your coax ten percent too long, leave the end of the coax open circuited. 
Your antenna analyzer will then set the length very accurately. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: ae...@carolinaheli.com 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 12:53:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side. 

So I found a formula for feedline length and just need some eyes on it to make 
sure I applied it correctly. 
I want to measure twice and cut once. Then I can use my antenna analyzer with a 
dummy load on the line to trim it. 

The columns are band, freq in Mhz, Multiplier to give multiples of the 1/2 wave 
length. 
You have to view the email full screen width or the tables wrap making it hard 
to read. 
It looks like 111.7694545 feet is the calculated half wavelength for 80m 
(3.53Mhz), not sure what will happen on 30m as it's closest length appears to 
occur at 3 wavelengths where the feedline would be about 4.801946936 Feet too 
long. 
Not sure what the SWR related losses will be but it will probably be ok. 

BAND Freq 1 2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 
80 3.52 111.7694545 223.5389091 279.4236364 335.3083636 391.1930909 447.0778182 
502.9625455 558.8472727 614.732 670.6167273 726.5014545 782.3861818 838.2709091 
894.1556364 
40 7.04 55.88472727 111.7694545 139.7118182 167.6541818 195.5965455 223.5389091 
251.4812727 279.4236364 307.366 335.3083636 363.2507273 391.1930909 419.1354545 
447.0778182 
30 10.125 38.85713383 77.71426765 97.14283457 116.5714015 135.684 
155.4285353 174.8571022 194.2856691 213.714236 233.142803 252.5713699 
271.368 291.4285037 310.8570706 
20 14.08 27.94236364 55.88472727 69.85590909 83.82709091 97.79827273 
111.7694545 125.7406364 139.7118182 153.683 167.6541818 181.6253636 195.5965455 
209.5677273 223.5389091 
15 21.4 18.38450841 36.76901682 45.96127103 55.15352523 64.34577944 73.53803364 
82.73028785 91.92254206 101.1147963 110.3070505 119.4993047 128.6915589 
137.8838131 147.0760673 
10 27 14.57142519 29.14285037 36.42856296 43.71427556 50.8815 58.28570074 
65.57141333 72.85712593 80.14283852 87.42855111 94.7142637 101.763 
109.2856889 116.5714015 

Formula used: L = (S * W * Vf)/f 

S 983.5712 
W 0.5 
VF 0.8 983.5712 
L = (S * W * Vf)/f 
S speed of light in meters or feet 
W number of wavelengths desired 
VF velocity factor 

Jerry Moore 
Cell: 803-431-1870 


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[AE4PB]

So I found a formula for feedline length and just need some eyes on it to make 
sure I applied it correctly. 
I want to measure twice and  cut once. Then I can use my antenna analyzer with 
a dummy load on the line to trim it. 

The columns are band, freq in Mhz, Multiplier to give multiples of the 1/2 wave 
length.
You have to view the email full screen width or the tables wrap making it hard 
to read. 
It looks like 111.7694545 feet is the calculated half wavelength for 80m 
(3.53Mhz), not sure what will happen on 30m as it's closest length appears to 
occur at 3 wavelengths where the feedline would be about 4.801946936 Feet too 
long. 
Not sure what the SWR related losses will be but it will probably be ok. 

BANDFreq  1   2 
2.5 3  3.5  
  4  4.5   5
  5.5   6   6.5 
77.58
80  3.52111.7694545 223.5389091 279.4236364 335.3083636 
391.1930909 447.0778182 502.9625455 558.8472727 614.732 
670.6167273 726.5014545 782.3861818 838.2709091 894.1556364
40  7.0455.88472727 111.7694545 139.7118182 167.6541818 
195.5965455 223.5389091 251.4812727 279.4236364 307.366 
335.3083636 363.2507273 391.1930909 419.1354545 447.0778182
30  10.125  38.85713383 77.71426765 97.14283457 116.5714015 
135.684 155.4285353 174.8571022 194.2856691 213.714236  
233.142803  252.5713699 271.368 291.4285037 310.8570706
20  14.08   27.94236364 55.88472727 69.85590909 83.82709091 
97.79827273 111.7694545 125.7406364 139.7118182 153.683 
167.6541818 181.6253636 195.5965455 209.5677273 223.5389091
15  21.418.38450841 36.76901682 45.96127103 55.15352523 
64.34577944 73.53803364 82.73028785 91.92254206 101.1147963 
110.3070505 119.4993047 128.6915589 137.8838131 147.0760673
10  27  14.57142519 29.14285037 36.42856296 43.71427556 
50.8815 58.28570074 65.57141333 72.85712593 80.14283852 
87.42855111 94.7142637  101.763 109.2856889 116.5714015

Formula used: L = (S * W * Vf)/f


S   983.5712

W   0.5 

VF  0.8 
983.5712
L = (S * W * Vf)/f  

S speed of light in meters or feet  

W number of wavelengths desired 

VF velocity factor  


Jerry Moore
Cell: 803-431-1870


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Fred Jensen]

Ummm ... not quite.  A "perfect" half-wave transmission line will 
reproduce the impedance of the load [which has been alleged to be 35 
ohms but this is an all-band antenna so that may vary some] at the 
source [TX] end.  The real line will come close, its loss will have a 
small effect.  His ATU will see whatever the feedpoint complex impedance 
is, not necessarily 50 ohms.


I'd suggest a good common-mode choke at the feedpoint too which might 
mean a short pigtail of RG-8 ... not sure if there are ferrite toroids 
that will fit the CATV hardline.  Jim, K9YC, has probably the best 
source of data on chokes, ferrites, et al at k9yc.com/Publish.htm


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/31/2020 8:52 PM, John K9UWA wrote:

Cut the hardline to multiples of 1/2 wavelength and the swr will be 1 to 1 on 
both
ends. 50 in 50 out. In this case the OP needs around 200 feet. Once your get the
velocity factor for the 1/2" hardline... that is ballpark 80 to 83%.  for 3.540 
mhz is
265 feet x .8 = 212 feet.   If you don't have a piece of test gear to get it cut
correctly then put a 50 ohm dummy load at the far end keep cutting until your
wattmeter says 1 to 1 swr. 1/2 wave multiples will hit most of the ham bands. A
little high in the 30m band. Close enough.
73
John k9uwa



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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Edward R Cole]

I agree with those who say just try it with TV cable connected, 
direct.  Tuner will keep the transmitter happy.  If you can cut the 
run to integrals of half wave that might be marginally better on 
Tx.  Back before WWII hams never worried about SWR and just maxed RF 
current.  Open-wire transmission line was popular (and low loss).


In 1980 I bought a TS-180S and a 4BTR with 80m coil-whip addition.  I 
attached the base direct to the front bumper of my 4x4 and operated 
mobile with no radials or tuner.  Heard Antarctica on 20m from Eagle, 
AK.  Should have kept the antenna.


Sold the radio after losing the finals (driver still output 
10w).  Before my K3 the best radio I owned was a FT-840.  I traded it 
for a FT-847 which was great on VHF/UHF but nowhere as good on HF 
(and part of the reason for getting the K3).


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Lyn Norstad]

Try this link instead:

 

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/hsr-6btv

 

73

Lyn, W0LEN

 

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John K9UWA
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 9:01 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

 

Supposedly the feedpoint impedance is 52 ohms ??? Yes, I question that a
bit. 

Read all about it here. Sorry I doubled the 1/2 wave mults. 

 

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/department/antennas/section/hf-vertical
-a

ntennas/brand/hustler-antenna/product-line/hustle

 

Hustler Antenna 6BTV - Hustler 6BTV 6-Band HF Vertical Antenna and DXE 

Installation Guide Packages

Antenna, Vertical, HF, 6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15, 10 meters, 1.5 kW, 24
ft., + 

DXE BTV High Perf. Guide, Each $241.99

 

Performance provided by the Hustler 6BTVs is better than any other antenna
of 

this type. Broad-banding is such that one measurement and setting permits
both 

phone and CW operation. The antenna provides nominal 52-ohm base 

impedance when installed and tuned according to the instructions. The
radiation 

efficiency is equal to, or greater than, other trap verticals.

 

73

John k9uwa

 

 

On 1 Apr 2020 at 8:14, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

 

> Based on TLW calculations for 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, 200 ft at 28 

> MHz should show a 1.87:1 SWR at the transmitter.  Assuming 35 ohms load 

> Z.  This equates to 1.027 dB total loss with 0.207 dB being attributed 

> to the SWR on the line.   Thus going through the efforts and matching 

> process would only net an improvement of 0.207 dB on 10 meters.  Lower 

> frequencies would be less.

> 

> Since this is a 5 or 6 band antenna, I doubt the Z at the feed point 

> will always be 35 ohms.  In order to determine what is actually needed, 

> one would need measurements for each band.

> 

> Conclusion:  Feed it with 200 ft of 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, use a 

> short jumper of RG6, or 8X or whatever to connect the hardline to the 

> radio and be done with it.

> 

> 

> NOTE:  I just noticed that the numbers below are somewhat in error.

> 

> 468/3.540 = 132.2 which is 1/2 wavelength.  Thus 132.2 X 2 = 264 ft 

> which is 1 wavelength, not 2 wavelengths as stated.   I didn't run the 

> math on the others.

> 

> 73

> 

> Bob, K4TAX

> 

> 

> On 4/1/2020 7:28 AM, John K9UWA wrote:

> > Ah YES I noticed it is for a multi band antenna.

> >

> > 2 wavelengths 3540 = 265'

> > 4 wavelengths 7080 = 265'

> > 6 wavelengths 10600 = 265'

> > 8 wavelengths 14160 = 265'

> > 12 wavelngths 21240 = 265'

> > 16 wavelengths 28320 = 265'

> >

> > Multiply the 265' by velocity factor of the coax and you will be
someplace

> > just a bit over 200 feet.

> >

> > the 10mhz band is off a bit. So OK... other than that 80, 40, 20, 15,10
are

> > all harmonically related.   As I said 50 in and 50 out. If the OP runs
this

> > vertical on 17 and 12m then yes he will have maybe a 1.5 / 1 mismatch
caused

> > by the coax. But the antenna isn't designed for 17 and 12.

> >

> > I cut all the 3/4" CATV in my system with a Hewlett Packard HP 4815A
Vector

> > Impedance Meter. Any 1/2 wave mult the the SWR is the same in as out.
Any ODD

> > 1/4 wavelength multiple creates a transformation With Multiple 4 hi
stacks of

> > yagi's I have many of those in the system as well. 75 ohm cable works
well to

> > put pairs or quads of yagi's together.

> >

> > The only thing that maybe won't be perfect is the actual vertical itself
may

> > not be a 50 ohm input.  His vertical is a  Hustler 6BTV. 73 John k9uwa

> >

> >

> 

> __

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John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 

Antique Radio Restorations

k9...@arrl.net

Visit our Web Site at:

http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com

4836 Ranch Road

Leo, IN 46765

USA

1-260-637-6426

 

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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Don Wilhelm]

Bob and all,

One problem is that you are using '468/fMhz' to compute the length of a 
half wavelength.  That is the common 'cutting formula' which includes an 
end-effect factor of about 5% which reduces the length of a half wave 
radiator.  An actual half wavelength is longer.


The actual length (in feet) of a wavelength is 983.5712/fMhz which is 
considerably longer than that computed using 468/fMhz times 2.


When dealing with a length of transmission line, the use of the '468' 
factor should not be used - compute the actual wavelength and then apply 
the velocity factor.


For those who work in meters instead of feet, the factor is 299.7925/fMHz.

See any antenna handbook which has essential characteristics of antennas 
for validation of my numbers.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/1/2020 9:14 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:



NOTE:  I just noticed that the numbers below are somewhat in error.

468/3.540 = 132.2 which is 1/2 wavelength.  Thus 132.2 X 2 = 264 ft 
which is 1 wavelength, not 2 wavelengths as stated.   I didn't run the 
math on the others.



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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[John K9UWA]

Supposedly the feedpoint impedance is 52 ohms ??? Yes, I question that a bit. 
Read all about it here. Sorry I doubled the 1/2 wave mults. 

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/department/antennas/section/hf-vertical-a
ntennas/brand/hustler-antenna/product-line/hustle

Hustler Antenna 6BTV - Hustler 6BTV 6-Band HF Vertical Antenna and DXE 
Installation Guide Packages
Antenna, Vertical, HF, 6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15, 10 meters, 1.5 kW, 24 ft., + 
DXE BTV High Perf. Guide, Each $241.99

Performance provided by the Hustler 6BTVs is better than any other antenna of 
this type. Broad-banding is such that one measurement and setting permits both 
phone and CW operation. The antenna provides nominal 52-ohm base 
impedance when installed and tuned according to the instructions. The radiation 
efficiency is equal to, or greater than, other trap verticals.

73
John k9uwa


On 1 Apr 2020 at 8:14, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Based on TLW calculations for 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, 200 ft at 28 
> MHz should show a 1.87:1 SWR at the transmitter.  Assuming 35 ohms load 
> Z.  This equates to 1.027 dB total loss with 0.207 dB being attributed 
> to the SWR on the line.   Thus going through the efforts and matching 
> process would only net an improvement of 0.207 dB on 10 meters.  Lower 
> frequencies would be less.
> 
> Since this is a 5 or 6 band antenna, I doubt the Z at the feed point 
> will always be 35 ohms.  In order to determine what is actually needed, 
> one would need measurements for each band.
> 
> Conclusion:  Feed it with 200 ft of 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, use a 
> short jumper of RG6, or 8X or whatever to connect the hardline to the 
> radio and be done with it.
> 
> 
> NOTE:  I just noticed that the numbers below are somewhat in error.
> 
> 468/3.540 = 132.2 which is 1/2 wavelength.  Thus 132.2 X 2 = 264 ft 
> which is 1 wavelength, not 2 wavelengths as stated.   I didn't run the 
> math on the others.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> On 4/1/2020 7:28 AM, John K9UWA wrote:
> > Ah YES I noticed it is for a multi band antenna.
> >
> > 2 wavelengths 3540 = 265'
> > 4 wavelengths 7080 = 265'
> > 6 wavelengths 10600 = 265'
> > 8 wavelengths 14160 = 265'
> > 12 wavelngths 21240 = 265'
> > 16 wavelengths 28320 = 265'
> >
> > Multiply the 265' by velocity factor of the coax and you will be someplace
> > just a bit over 200 feet.
> >
> > the 10mhz band is off a bit. So OK... other than that 80, 40, 20, 15,10 are
> > all harmonically related.   As I said 50 in and 50 out. If the OP runs this
> > vertical on 17 and 12m then yes he will have maybe a 1.5 / 1 mismatch caused
> > by the coax. But the antenna isn't designed for 17 and 12.
> >
> > I cut all the 3/4" CATV in my system with a Hewlett Packard HP 4815A Vector
> > Impedance Meter. Any 1/2 wave mult the the SWR is the same in as out.  Any 
> > ODD
> > 1/4 wavelength multiple creates a transformation With Multiple 4 hi stacks 
> > of
> > yagi's I have many of those in the system as well. 75 ohm cable works well 
> > to
> > put pairs or quads of yagi's together.
> >
> > The only thing that maybe won't be perfect is the actual vertical itself may
> > not be a 50 ohm input.  His vertical is a  Hustler 6BTV. 73 John k9uwa
> >
> >
> 
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> Message delivered to j...@johnjeanantiqueradio.com 

John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Based on TLW calculations for 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, 200 ft at 28 
MHz should show a 1.87:1 SWR at the transmitter.  Assuming 35 ohms load 
Z.  This equates to 1.027 dB total loss with 0.207 dB being attributed 
to the SWR on the line.   Thus going through the efforts and matching 
process would only net an improvement of 0.207 dB on 10 meters.  Lower 
frequencies would be less.


Since this is a 5 or 6 band antenna, I doubt the Z at the feed point 
will always be 35 ohms.  In order to determine what is actually needed, 
one would need measurements for each band.


Conclusion:  Feed it with 200 ft of 1/2" CATV 75 ohm hard line, use a 
short jumper of RG6, or 8X or whatever to connect the hardline to the 
radio and be done with it.



NOTE:  I just noticed that the numbers below are somewhat in error.

468/3.540 = 132.2 which is 1/2 wavelength.  Thus 132.2 X 2 = 264 ft 
which is 1 wavelength, not 2 wavelengths as stated.   I didn't run the 
math on the others.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/1/2020 7:28 AM, John K9UWA wrote:

Ah YES I noticed it is for a multi band antenna.

2 wavelengths 3540 = 265'
4 wavelengths 7080 = 265'
6 wavelengths 10600 = 265'
8 wavelengths 14160 = 265'
12 wavelngths 21240 = 265'
16 wavelengths 28320 = 265'

Multiply the 265' by velocity factor of the coax and you will be someplace just 
a bit
over 200 feet.

the 10mhz band is off a bit. So OK... other than that 80, 40, 20, 15,10 are all
harmonically related.   As I said 50 in and 50 out. If the OP runs this 
vertical on 17
and 12m then yes he will have maybe a 1.5 / 1 mismatch caused by the coax. But
the antenna isn't designed for 17 and 12.

I cut all the 3/4" CATV in my system with a Hewlett Packard HP 4815A Vector
Impedance Meter. Any 1/2 wave mult the the SWR is the same in as out.  Any
ODD 1/4 wavelength multiple creates a transformation With Multiple 4 hi stacks 
of
yagi's I have many of those in the system as well. 75 ohm cable works well to 
put
pairs or quads of yagi's together.

The only thing that maybe won't be perfect is the actual vertical itself may 
not be a
50 ohm input.  His vertical is a  Hustler 6BTV.
73
John k9uwa




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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[John K9UWA]

Ah YES I noticed it is for a multi band antenna. 

2 wavelengths 3540 = 265'
4 wavelengths 7080 = 265'
6 wavelengths 10600 = 265'
8 wavelengths 14160 = 265'
12 wavelngths 21240 = 265'
16 wavelengths 28320 = 265'

Multiply the 265' by velocity factor of the coax and you will be someplace just 
a bit 
over 200 feet. 

the 10mhz band is off a bit. So OK... other than that 80, 40, 20, 15,10 are all 
harmonically related.   As I said 50 in and 50 out. If the OP runs this 
vertical on 17 
and 12m then yes he will have maybe a 1.5 / 1 mismatch caused by the coax. But 
the antenna isn't designed for 17 and 12.

I cut all the 3/4" CATV in my system with a Hewlett Packard HP 4815A Vector 
Impedance Meter. Any 1/2 wave mult the the SWR is the same in as out.  Any 
ODD 1/4 wavelength multiple creates a transformation With Multiple 4 hi stacks 
of 
yagi's I have many of those in the system as well. 75 ohm cable works well to 
put 
pairs or quads of yagi's together. 

The only thing that maybe won't be perfect is the actual vertical itself may 
not be a 
50 ohm input.  His vertical is a  Hustler 6BTV.  
73
John k9uwa

On 31 Mar 2020 at 22:39, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 3/31/2020 8:52 PM, John K9UWA wrote:
> > Cut the hardline to multiples of 1/2 wavelength and the swr will be 1 to 1 
> > on
> > both ends. 50 in 50 out.
> 
> Did you notice that this is for an all-band antenna?
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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> 

John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[john]

You can also use coax to make matching transformer however I don't  
know how either of these methods would work for AE4PB's 6 band vertical.


John KK9A




John K9UWA wrote:

Cut the hardline to multiples of 1/2 wavelength and the swr will be 1  
to 1 on both
ends. 50 in 50 out. In this case the OP needs around 200 feet. Once  
your get the
velocity factor for the 1/2" hardline... that is ballpark 80 to 83%.   
for 3.540 mhz is
265 feet x .8 = 212 feet.   If you don't have a piece of test gear to  
get it cut

correctly then put a 50 ohm dummy load at the far end keep cutting until your
wattmeter says 1 to 1 swr. 1/2 wave multiples will hit most of the ham  
bands. A

little high in the 30m band. Close enough.
73
John k9uwa
John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF
Antique Radio Restorations
k9uwa at arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[David Gilbert]

Very true, and in fact due to those ground losses the feedpoint 
impedance might be higher ... and therefore provide a better "match" to 
the 75 CATV line than if it was 35 ohms.  The loss just shows up in the 
ground instead of in the UNUN (they aren't lossless), on the line, or in 
the rig tuner.


I agree with most of the comments here.  I'd try it first without the 
2:1 UNUN.


73,
Dave  AB7E


On 3/31/2020 11:04 AM, Jim Brown wrote:



Also, I suggest that you check the feedpoint Z with a good antenna 
analyzer right at the antenna. Depending on your soil conductivity, 35 
ohms is pretty optimistic.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Jim Brown]

On 3/31/2020 8:52 PM, John K9UWA wrote:

Cut the hardline to multiples of 1/2 wavelength and the swr will be 1 to 1 on 
both
ends. 50 in 50 out.


Did you notice that this is for an all-band antenna?

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[John K9UWA]

Cut the hardline to multiples of 1/2 wavelength and the swr will be 1 to 1 on 
both 
ends. 50 in 50 out. In this case the OP needs around 200 feet. Once your get 
the 
velocity factor for the 1/2" hardline... that is ballpark 80 to 83%.  for 3.540 
mhz is 
265 feet x .8 = 212 feet.   If you don't have a piece of test gear to get it 
cut 
correctly then put a 50 ohm dummy load at the far end keep cutting until your 
wattmeter says 1 to 1 swr. 1/2 wave multiples will hit most of the ham bands. A 
little high in the 30m band. Close enough.
73
John k9uwa
John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

You don't need an UNUN with the system.  Connect the 1/2" CATV 75 ohm 
hard line to the feed point on the antenna, and use a short jumper of 
RG8X or RG6 between the hard line to the radio for convenience.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/31/2020 1:06 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

The 200' run is Cable TV hardline (1/2") 75 Ohm, that's where the UnUn would go 
(maybe).

Jerry Moore
Cell: 803-431-1870

-Original Message-
From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:58 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; ae...@carolinaheli.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

I don't think you need a unun because the additional loss due to SWR running 
RG/6 at 2:1 is only 0.381 dB, and the unun itself would certainly have some 
loss.
But the loss in 200' of RG/6 even at 1:1 is about 2.9 dB! That is almost half 
your power. RG/8 would have only 1.9 dB loss, and with a probable SWR of about 
1.5:1 you would have a total loss of 2.2 dB.
Even better would be Belden 9913 or similar coax, which would give you a total 
loss of 1.6 dB.
All these facts and more are available at 
<https://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm>

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 31/03/2020 19:39, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30,
20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200'
away from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure
how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the
impedance with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In
addition I believe I will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6
(75ohm) to the hardline and direct to the rig since my K3S can match
the impedance. Is this essentially correct and is there a better way
to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses for the distance run and still have a 
decent transmitted signal.
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%.

73 es
De AE4PB
..
   


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[AE4PB]

The 200' run is Cable TV hardline (1/2") 75 Ohm, that's where the UnUn would go 
(maybe). 

Jerry Moore
Cell: 803-431-1870

-Original Message-
From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP  
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:58 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; ae...@carolinaheli.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

I don't think you need a unun because the additional loss due to SWR running 
RG/6 at 2:1 is only 0.381 dB, and the unun itself would certainly have some 
loss.
But the loss in 200' of RG/6 even at 1:1 is about 2.9 dB! That is almost half 
your power. RG/8 would have only 1.9 dB loss, and with a probable SWR of about 
1.5:1 you would have a total loss of 2.2 dB.
Even better would be Belden 9913 or similar coax, which would give you a total 
loss of 1.6 dB.
All these facts and more are available at 
<https://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm>

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 31/03/2020 19:39, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:
> I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 
> 20, 15,
> 10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' 
> away from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure 
> how to get a
> 2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the 
> impedance with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In 
> addition I believe I will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6 
> (75ohm) to the hardline and direct to the rig since my K3S can match 
> the impedance. Is this essentially correct and is there a better way 
> to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses for the distance run and still have 
> a decent transmitted signal.
> Thanks in advance.
> Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%.
> 
> 73 es
> De AE4PB
> ..
>   
> 
> __
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> k2vco@gmail.com
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

So you end up with <  2:1 SWR on the line.  Actually TLW shows the input 
to the line SWR as 1.87:1, at the load 2.15 and the total loss at 28MHz 
as 1.017 dB.  Nothing wrong with those numbers.   You don't need a 2:1 
UNUN.


Keep the length of RG6 to a minimum as it has higher loss than the 1/2 
inch 75 ohm CATV cable.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 3/31/2020 11:39 AM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' away
from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the impedance
with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In addition I believe I
will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6 (75ohm) to the hardline and
direct to the rig since my K3S can match the impedance. Is this essentially
correct and is there a better way to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses
for the distance run and still have a decent transmitted signal.
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%.

73 es
De AE4PB
..
  


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Jim Brown]

That CATV hard line is pretty low loss, so the excess loss from the 
small mismatch isn't much. I wouldn't worry too much about the impedance 
mismatch if your radio has the tuner installed. Hook everything up with 
the CATV hard line, no Unun, and if the tuner makes the radio happy, 
declare victory. Especially if the installation is temporary, don't 
sweat 15M and above -- at the solar minimum, there's not a lot happening 
on these bands for a few years.


Also, I suggest that you check the feedpoint Z with a good antenna 
analyzer right at the antenna. Depending on your soil conductivity, 35 
ohms is pretty optimistic.


73, Jim K9YC

 On 3/31/2020 9:39 AM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' away
from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the impedance
with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range).


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Forgot to add: I used 28 MHz for the calculations in my previous email. 
Losses will be lower on lower bands.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 31/03/2020 19:39, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' away
from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the impedance
with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In addition I believe I
will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6 (75ohm) to the hardline and
direct to the rig since my K3S can match the impedance. Is this essentially
correct and is there a better way to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses
for the distance run and still have a decent transmitted signal.
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%.

73 es
De AE4PB
..
  


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Re: [Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I don't think you need a unun because the additional loss due to SWR 
running RG/6 at 2:1 is only 0.381 dB, and the unun itself would 
certainly have some loss.
But the loss in 200' of RG/6 even at 1:1 is about 2.9 dB! That is almost 
half your power. RG/8 would have only 1.9 dB loss, and with a probable 
SWR of about 1.5:1 you would have a total loss of 2.2 dB.
Even better would be Belden 9913 or similar coax, which would give you a 
total loss of 1.6 dB.

All these facts and more are available at


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 31/03/2020 19:39, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' away
from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the impedance
with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In addition I believe I
will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6 (75ohm) to the hardline and
direct to the rig since my K3S can match the impedance. Is this essentially
correct and is there a better way to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses
for the distance run and still have a decent transmitted signal.
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%.

73 es
De AE4PB
..
  


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[Elecraft] 75ohm Impedance question K3S and Antenna side.

[AE4PB]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Hustler 6BTV (6-Band, 80, 40, 30, 20, 15,
10 meters). It will be temporarily installed (with radials) about 200' away
from my house. I'd like to run CATV "hardline" but I'm not sure how to get a
2:1 UnUn with a wide enough bandwidth on the antenna side (the impedance
with 60ish radials should be in the 35ohm range). In addition I believe I
will be ok on the RIG side to just connect RG6 (75ohm) to the hardline and
direct to the rig since my K3S can match the impedance. Is this essentially
correct and is there a better way to do this? I'm trying to minimize losses
for the distance run and still have a decent transmitted signal. 
Thanks in advance. 
Yeah, I should know this stuff but I can't know everything 100%. 

73 es
De AE4PB
..
 

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