Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[w...@w2xj.net]

 I was management at CBS corporate in NYC. I never saw such a questionaire. It 
appears you were a technician under IBEW contract so I don’t know what they 
required. I did become a member of BCARS (broadcast center amateur radio 
society) which was comprised mostly of IBEW technicians.   We rebuilt the ham 
shack on top of the 514 building and put a repeater on the Empire State 
building (all new factory installed Motorola gear). We did everything to code 
and to union spec. Bob Ross who was in charge of all engineering at CBS and a 
very big ham radio supporter (donated prizes at the NAB ham radio gathering) 
could write checks up to $100,000 without further approval and was a big BCARS 
supporter. We didn’t do cheap or messy. 

I don’t recall your name so where exactly at CBS did you work?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Raymond Sills  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Bob:
> 
> Hmmm... sorry to hear of that "anti-ham" hiring bias.  Over five decades ago, 
> I was hired by CBS, and one of the questions on the job application was: "Do 
> you have an Amateur Radio license, for how long, and what grade."   
> 
> It turns out those members of the technical staff who did have a ham ticket 
> were among the most valuable employees.  Sure, not every technician had a ham 
> license, but a number had commercial licenses (required for those who would 
> be operating a transmitter, back then).  Of those technical employees who 
> were ever let go, or who left on their own, not a single one was a ham.
> 
> Different strokes, I suppose.
> 
> 73 & QSH de Ray K2ULR
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: w...@w2xj.net 
> To: Ray 
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; donov...@erols.com
> Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2021 8:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
> 
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> > 
> > Save your money!   
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Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[David Wilcox via Elecraft]

Rick,

I think one of the main problems with this is folks (old like me and 
inexperienced in how the  audio side of computers and connecting them to a 
xcvr) who don’t understand fully the concept of what you are talking about once 
they set up a dongle or other sound card and it works they don’t change 
anything and may keep sending computer sounds and noises, etc., without knowing 
it.  I hope someone reading this will direct me and others to a site or two 
that help us understand what is going on.

I just used a cheap Amazon sound card when hooking up two different FT8 xcvr 
kits (QRPGuys and CWTD)  to my W10 laptop and watched paint dry last winter 
while in Florida.  Noting exciting so when we came back home in the spring 
never hooked them up again. Still if the bug hits again I would like to 
understand more.

I read every email on this and other sites re FT8, etc., so again, if someone 
can direct me to a good site or two to assist my weak understanding I would be 
interested.  

Dave K8WPE since 1960 and crystal sets before that.

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I  wrote:
> 
> Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any random 
> update) it's a bad idea.  Leaving one small check mark in a lower level 
> driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is but one 
> example.  There are  too  many ways to make an error.  Using the computer 
> sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.
> 
> We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to 
> operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go.  Setting boundaries 
> is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in radio).
> 
> Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and apps 
> that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype audio).  The 
> small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the radio(s) is 
> certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.
> 
> 73,
> Rick NK7I
> 
>> On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
>> Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_. 
>> Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't 
>> going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes 
>> setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my PC 
>> sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have upgraded my 
>> K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC CW down the one 
>> USB cable.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Mike VP8NO
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Wes]

I'm long retired but if I wasn't, who are you and why would I want to work for 
you anyway?  No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question, from what you've 
written, I wouldn't.


N7WS

On 1/1/2021 9:50 PM, w...@w2xj.net wrote:

Bottom line is that too many hams are too cheap and too messy. That is why I 
never hired them and never allowed them to use my towers for repeaters unless 
it was a professional install of all new equipment.

Sent from my iPad



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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Edward R Cole]

Lets see, you know enough how to set up audio for running FT8 
(wsjt-x) but not enough to disable alert tones??


Actually my solution is easier: I have a separate computer for 
running my ham radio programs so never need to hear that computer 
"burp".  Internet and e-mail done on a separate computer where I can 
enable sound if I want (most of the time speaker is cancelled).  I 
have a FM radio for music.  Occasionally, I want to hear audio with a 
video and enable speaker for that.


Currently using the soundcard (Realtek) in the computer  for digital 
modes (but not very satisfactory as gain is not leveled and has a lot 
of noise below 200-Hz).  Eventually will get my new A/D going (UADC4) 
which will drive with baseband audio from my LP-Pan(SDR) running on 
the K3 1st IF.


With my old winXP computer I used a emu0202 soundcard or a Delta44 
(but neither are supported by win10).


Now run two Dell Inspiron i5 with separate monitors.

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

My shack computer with Win10p does not have a mike, speaker or video 
camera. OS sounds turned off. Easy to check after an update. I use a USB 
cable to my upgraded K3 but would work just fine with line in/out audio 
cables to the back of the K3.


I do not want any alerts so works for me. I use a different computer for 
playing sounds, using Zoom, etc.


73, tom w7sua

On 1/1/2021 10:48 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any 
random update) it's a bad idea.  Leaving one small check mark in a lower 
level driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is 
but one example.  There are  too  many ways to make an error.  Using the 
computer sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.


We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to 
operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go.  Setting 
boundaries is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in 
radio).


Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and 
apps that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype 
audio).  The small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the 
radio(s) is certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.


73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_. 
Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world 
isn't going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding 
includes setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. 
I've used my PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years. 
Now I have upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, 
PTT and PC CW down the one USB cable.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[w...@w2xj.net]

Bottom line is that too many hams are too cheap and too messy. That is why I 
never hired them and never allowed them to use my towers for repeaters unless 
it was a professional install of all new equipment. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:43 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:
> 
> Yes, please.  Hepefully Eric or Wayne will step in and shut this “I’m the 
> genius and you’re not” garbage down.  Honest to g*d. There are just too many 
> folks around here who know better than anyone else, and want to make sure you 
> know it too.  And even when they’re right, they’re not very gentlemanly about 
> it … 
> 
> Grant NQ5T
> 
>> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:18 PM, George Thornton 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and 
>> drives good people away.  
>> 
>> -Original Message-
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Grant Youngman]

Yes, please.  Hepefully Eric or Wayne will step in and shut this “I’m the 
genius and you’re not” garbage down.  Honest to g*d. There are just too many 
folks around here who know better than anyone else, and want to make sure you 
know it too.  And even when they’re right, they’re not very gentlemanly about 
it … 

Grant NQ5T

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:18 PM, George Thornton 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and drives 
> good people away.  
> 
> -Original Message-

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[George Thornton]

Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and drives 
good people away.  

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of w...@w2xj.net
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 7:48 PM
To: Linda M 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; donov...@erols.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Impressive, I have a similar resume, but it still doesn’t tell me whether or 
not you are cheap and messy. That is my criteria for not hiring hams. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 10:41 PM, Linda M  wrote:
> 
> 
> Right, I left Ft Gordon Georgia (east coast) after Radio School and 
> Instructing in Radio School for Vietnam, later to Work as a  Broadcast 
> Engineer.
> Jobs with Top Secret clearances required, I cant talk about !
> O ya, 2 Stints for Intel, jobs in Engineering Standards and Quality Control.
>  Got along GRANDLY without your jobs………
>  59 Year  Ham -  WA6VAB K3
>  
> From: w...@w2xj.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:26 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: w...@w2xj.net; donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to 
> K3
>  
> But you never worked for me and never will. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> 
> I had Lots of work.  Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
> Thanks   WA6VAB 
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: w...@w2xj.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to 
> K3
>  
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>  
> Sent from my iPad
>  
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!  
>  
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to, K3

[Bill Frantz]

I helped teach a number of ham crams for the our local 
ARES/RACES group. We always included information about Ohm's 
law, how to cut a 1/2 wave dipole, and operating procedures. 
They're all on the tech test, and for many students it's a lot 
easier to learn how to figure out the answer than it is to 
remember which multiple-guess is correct.


Quick example: There is a question about how long a 1/4 wave 
antenna is for 2M. We tell them that 40" is a good enough 
conversion for a meter, so 2M is 80" and 1/4 or 80" is 20". The 
correct answer on the test is 19" but the other 3 answers are 
way wrong, so picking the closest answer works. We even get to 
mention that the velocity of light in a wire is slower than it 
is in free space, so 19" is the right answer.


What I find with students is that many are completely at sea 
about how ham radio works in the practical sense of picking up a 
microphone and making a contact. There's nothing like just doing it.


We would run a 2nd class a month after the ham cram and license 
test. We would tell the students to bring their new radios and 
we would get the local repeaters programmed into them. We would 
then coach them in making some contacts with each other.


As weeks went by, we would encourage them to act as net control 
for our weekly net, and then to act as net control for the 
county net when it was our group's turn.


Again, like any student, spoon feed them at a rate such that 
they can learn. It takes a lot of Elmering to make a ham.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/1/21 at 10:58 PM, rmcg...@blomand.net (Bob McGraw) wrote:

I was asked by a club to teach a new hams class in preparation 
for the license exam.   I inquired as to what I would be 
teaching. The answer came back "the test!". No thank 
you, if I can't teach Ohms law, how to cut a 1/2 wave dipole, 
and operating procedure, I'll just stay under my rock.   I've 
been licensed for 60 years and had my First Class Radio 
Telephone license before I obtained my ham license, that was 
while in high school in 1960.  I guess that makes me an old 
f**t as well.

---
Bill Frantz| If the site is supported by  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | ads, you are the product.| 150 
Rivermead Road #235
www.pwpconsult.com |  | 
Peterborough, NY 03458


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[Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to, K3

[Bob McGraw]

Joe makes a good point.

I was asked by a club to teach a new hams class in preparation for the 
license exam.   I inquired as to what I would be teaching. The answer 
came back "the test!". No thank you, if I can't teach Ohms law, how 
to cut a 1/2 wave dipole, and operating procedure, I'll just stay under 
my rock.   I've been licensed for 60 years and had my First Class Radio 
Telephone license before I obtained my ham license, that was while in 
high school in 1960.  I guess that makes me an old f**t as well.


It seems today that every box of Cracker Jacks has an Extra Class 
license included as a prize.


73

Bob, K4TAX


Message: 21
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2021 21:28:39 -0500
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV"
To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to
K3
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed


 > Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better.

But there is no "teaching" ... give them a book with all the license
questions, let them memorize them and get a license without a CW exam
or test that amounts to anything - even for Amateur Extra these days.

ARRL is too busy promoting WinStink and other quasi commercial activity
to spend pages in QST and/or staff time at hamfest fora on good
operating practice for digital modes.

 > Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better. Forgive me, I'm
 > and old f*** who's only been licensed 69 years.

You've got about 19 years on me but I don't feel like an old f***.
I do feel like someone trying to hold back the tide with a push broom.


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[w...@w2xj.net]

Impressive, I have a similar resume, but it still doesn’t tell me whether or 
not you are cheap and messy. That is my criteria for not hiring hams. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 10:41 PM, Linda M  wrote:
> 
> 
> Right, I left Ft Gordon Georgia (east coast) after Radio School and 
> Instructing in
> Radio School for Vietnam, later to Work as a  Broadcast Engineer.
> Jobs with Top Secret clearances required, I cant talk about !
> O ya, 2 Stints for Intel, jobs in Engineering Standards and Quality Control.
>  Got along GRANDLY without your jobs……… 
>  59 Year  Ham -  WA6VAB K3
>  
> From: w...@w2xj.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:26 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: w...@w2xj.net; donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>  
> But you never worked for me and never will. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> 
> I had Lots of work.  Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
> Thanks   WA6VAB 
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: w...@w2xj.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>  
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>  
> Sent from my iPad
>  
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!  
>  
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Linda M]

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Linda M]

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[Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to, K3

[Bob McGraw]

Doesn't this have something to do with reading the manual, and 
understand how ones system operates, and being responsible for their 
station operation?   I seem to think so.


So what may work for one, may not work for another.   All pies are not 
cut into 8 equal pieces.


73

Bob, K4TAX


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:11:07 -0500
From: Don Wilhelm
To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to
K3
Message-ID:<2951b270-f95c-4831-4476-3568db7db...@embarqmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I fail to understand why so many are resistant to using an external USB
soundcard.  Those adequate for data mode use are available in the $10 to
$20 range, and it solves a lot of problems.  Sure there are exotic
soundcards costing $100 or more, but those are overkill for data modes.

If you have a computer dedicated to the ham station setup, you can avoid
this problem by simply turning off the OS sounds, but if you are using
that computer for other tasks, then you likely want to leave the sounds
turned on.  With each OS update, check to be certain the OS sounds are
still turned off.

Just make sure your OS does not set the external soundcard as default.
Windows often does that when you first install it - check the soundcard
settings.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/1/2021 7:43 PM, Phil Kane wrote:


On 1/1/2021 10:22 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:


While I'm not an attorney, I've read the rules (subject to
interpretation of course).

That's always a good start.


Considering the general apathy of the FCC lately (US of course), I'm
not surprised that this has never been tested by citation.

Why should it be?? Don't poke the sleeping bear.

Some may be see it as apathy, some may see it as common sense.? My
decades in FCC enforcement taught me to differentiate the two after one
Division Chief asked me "don't you have anything better to do with your
time..? "?


I'd much rather err on the side of caution.? Turning off the OS sounds
is not a complete solution.




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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Gwen Patton]

Ray said: I use my standard computers sound card for Digital Mode, works
Fine.
Save your money!   Ray WA6VAB K3


It is perfectly possible to do this. It is electronically possible. And
yes, it works fine. But just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It is
incredibly easy to accidentally transmit music or other spurious sounds
because some other piece of software also uses the standard sound card.
You're welcome to use your computer and your radio as you see fit, but keep
in mind that you do have a responsibility to follow the FCC regulations,
and if something you do attracts the attention of a VM or the Enforcement
Bureau, you may get a "Certificate of Naughtiness" or some such from the
Powers That Be.

It's much safer for your license status to spend $10 bucks or so on a USB
sound card that you solely use for ham radio digital modes. That keeps any
musical Windows alerts, notifications of subscribed Youtube videos, Ebay
notifications for auctions you are watching, the baby monitor, or any of a
dozen other things that are automatically connected to the Default Sound
Devices, from sending anything that might jeopardize your license. If the
cat walks on your keyboard while you're getting a cup of coffee, and turns
on Spotify, you might come in to see that your cat just Rickrolled the
80-meter FT8 window, and was in the process of telling the world about your
WAP when you discovered it. Things happen. Accidents happen. You can
overlook something. This is just how things are.

But you and I both know that Murphy loves moments like these, and that the
perversity of the Universe tends to the maximum.

Spend $10 to help keep your $2000 radio from sending extraneous sounds from
your $900 PC over the air, because you and I also know that at the precise
moment you think "nothing can possibly go wrong" and go get your coffee,
three VMs will have JUST tuned up their machines to do a little 80m FT8,
and your cat thinks your keyboard feels good under her paws.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 7:18 PM Ray  wrote:

> I use my standard computers sound card for Digital Mode, works Fine.
> Save your money!   Ray WA6VAB K3
>
> Windows 10
>
> From: donov...@erols.com
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 2:31 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> Transmitting voice or music to the FT8 interface is a big problem for
> other users. It creates interference across the entire SSB filter
> bandwidth,
> not just in a single FT8 signal bandwidth. If you operate FT8 or any
> other digital mode you hear Microsoft musical notes and voice every day.
>
>
> The most reliable way to avoid interfering with every other FT8 user
> is to use an external sound card.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Bill Frantz" 
> To: "Rick Bates, NK7I" 
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:14:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this
> issue, because a fair number of public service events involve
> providing communication support for parades, and parades have
> bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise
> canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official
> ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the
> ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC.
>
> Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For
> starts, it's not incidental to legal communication.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, rick.n...@gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote:
>
> >Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other
> >than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for
> >digital) is illegal.
> >
> >This includes background music in the same room as the
> >microphone (though generally ignored as part of the
> >environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an
> >autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the
> >'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication).
>
> ---
> Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150
> Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum |
> Peterborough, NH 03458
>
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> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted b

Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Dave Fugleberg]

The advice to use a separate sound card just for the radio is wise, and
makes the use of the computer much more convenient for multiple tasks. For
radios like the K3S, this additional 'sound card' is built into the radio,
so there's no reason not to use it.  For those of us (like me) with a K3
without a USB port, an external USB card is a great option.

However, it is entirely possible for someone to configure Windows to use
that card as the default as well, defeating the purpose of separate sound
cards. In fact, Windows may "helpfully" do so itself when a new sound card
is detected. So, adding a second card is great, but the PC must still be
correctly configured.

Bottom line is that people need to learn enough about their equipment
(INCLUDING their computer) to configure it correctly, and to troubleshoot
issues that arise.  No different than learning to properly adjust a
transmitter or amplifier for a clean signal - it goes with the territory.

I believe the original poster simply wanted a recommendation on what sound
card works well for digital modes.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a
modern sound card that didn't - digital modes are not exactly demanding in
terms of a high end sound card.  Personally, I use this one with my K3 -
https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-External-Adapter-Headphone-Microphone/dp/B01HPMHOY0
 UGreen model 30420. They go for about 20 bucks.

It's a combination of a sound card and a 3 port USB hub. I have it
installed in the rack where my K3, P3, and Winkeyer live.  The USB to
RS-232 cable for the K3/P3 plugs into one of the ports on the hub, and  the
Winkeyer to another. Standard 1/8 inch audio cables connect the audio
in/out from the UGreen device to the audio in/out on the K3.  The single
USB cable from the UGreen device goes to the PC via a short USB extension
(the cord on the device is only 6 inches long).  I've used this for over
three years with no problems, for AFSK RTTY, SSTV, FT8, etc. as well as rig
control and CW keying.  All with one USB cable from the rack to the PC.
Very convenient.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 8:37 PM Rick Bates, NK7I  wrote:

> If it's insisted to use the OS sound card; one should make sure that the
> audio driver (slightly harder to access in Win 10) does not allow local
> microphone (web cam or often built into a laptop) to be accessed EVER
> (by disabling it AND reducing the level to zero), lest it find a path
> into the transmitter.  Checking after each update is required; levels
> and setting CAN change then (check 'listen' tabs  to deny as well).
>
> That is the same issue as those who choose a mic input for (computer
> audio) digital TX, yet fail to disconnect the mic during digital
> transmitting, so both go live and unintended station sounds are
> transmitted with the wanted digital tones.  (head slap!)
>
> Again, a rig costs hundreds plus, a computer (except Pi) does also; yet
> there is resistance to adding a $20 item to make legality simpler to
> meet... not a significant price.
>
> Phil, you're correct in that it merits a question on the test; it's that
> common an error.  (No, I won't poke the bear, except to get a better
> photo, hi  and only from a safe distance).
>
> HNY,
> Rick NK7I
>
> On 1/1/2021 5:47 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> > On 1/1/2021 5:11 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >
> >> Just make sure your OS does not set the external soundcard as
> >> default. Windows often does that when you first install it - check
> >> the soundcard settings.
> >
> > The Winlink VARA setup instructions make this very clear, although I
> > have never experienced a Win 10 update turning my OS sound selection
> > on after I have turned it to "No Sounds".
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

If it's insisted to use the OS sound card; one should make sure that the 
audio driver (slightly harder to access in Win 10) does not allow local 
microphone (web cam or often built into a laptop) to be accessed EVER 
(by disabling it AND reducing the level to zero), lest it find a path 
into the transmitter.  Checking after each update is required; levels 
and setting CAN change then (check 'listen' tabs  to deny as well).


That is the same issue as those who choose a mic input for (computer 
audio) digital TX, yet fail to disconnect the mic during digital 
transmitting, so both go live and unintended station sounds are 
transmitted with the wanted digital tones.  (head slap!)


Again, a rig costs hundreds plus, a computer (except Pi) does also; yet 
there is resistance to adding a $20 item to make legality simpler to 
meet... not a significant price.


Phil, you're correct in that it merits a question on the test; it's that 
common an error.  (No, I won't poke the bear, except to get a better 
photo, hi  and only from a safe distance).


HNY,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 5:47 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

On 1/1/2021 5:11 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Just make sure your OS does not set the external soundcard as 
default. Windows often does that when you first install it - check 
the soundcard settings.


The Winlink VARA setup instructions make this very clear, although I 
have never experienced a Win 10 update turning my OS sound selection 
on after I have turned it to "No Sounds".


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better.

But there is no "teaching" ... give them a book with all the license
questions, let them memorize them and get a license without a CW exam
or test that amounts to anything - even for Amateur Extra these days.

ARRL is too busy promoting WinStink and other quasi commercial activity
to spend pages in QST and/or staff time at hamfest fora on good
operating practice for digital modes.

> Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better.  Forgive me, I'm
> and old f*** who's only been licensed 69 years.

You've got about 19 years on me but I don't feel like an old f***.
I do feel like someone trying to hold back the tide with a push broom.


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 8:23 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

On 1/1/2021 1:57 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


The number of amateurs using some kind of DX alerting system and/or
streaming music while waiting for someone else to find them "a new
one" to work in significant and you can hear most of their alerts
or music on the air from time to time.


Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better.  Forgive me, I'm 
and old f*** who's only been licensed 69 years.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon




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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[w...@w2xj.net]

But you never worked for me and never will. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> 
> I had Lots of work.  Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
> Thanks   WA6VAB 
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: w...@w2xj.net
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>  
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>  
> Sent from my iPad
>  
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!  
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Ray]

I had Lots of work.  Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
Thanks   WA6VAB  

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: w...@w2xj.net
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
To: Ray
Cc: donov...@erols.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> Save your money!   

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 5:11 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Just make sure your OS does not set the external soundcard as default. 
Windows often does that when you first install it - check the soundcard 
settings.


The Winlink VARA setup instructions make this very clear, although I 
have never experienced a Win 10 update turning my OS sound selection on 
after I have turned it to "No Sounds".


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[w...@w2xj.net]

Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> Save your money!   
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 2:14 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

I think there has even been an official ruling that these incidental 
sounds, that come along for the ride with legal communication, won't get 
you a notice from the FCC.


Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For starts, 
it's not incidental to legal communication.


You hit the nail on the head.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 1:57 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


The number of amateurs using some kind of DX alerting system and/or
streaming music while waiting for someone else to find them "a new
one" to work in significant and you can hear most of their alerts
or music on the air from time to time.


Bad form.  They should know - or be taught - better.  Forgive me, I'm 
and old f*** who's only been licensed 69 years.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Don Wilhelm]

I fail to understand why so many are resistant to using an external USB 
soundcard.  Those adequate for data mode use are available in the $10 to 
$20 range, and it solves a lot of problems.  Sure there are exotic 
soundcards costing $100 or more, but those are overkill for data modes.


If you have a computer dedicated to the ham station setup, you can avoid 
this problem by simply turning off the OS sounds, but if you are using 
that computer for other tasks, then you likely want to leave the sounds 
turned on.  With each OS update, check to be certain the OS sounds are 
still turned off.


Just make sure your OS does not set the external soundcard as default. 
Windows often does that when you first install it - check the soundcard 
settings.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/1/2021 7:43 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

On 1/1/2021 10:22 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

While I'm not an attorney, I've read the rules (subject to 
interpretation of course).


That's always a good start.

Considering the general apathy of the FCC lately (US of course), I'm 
not surprised that this has never been tested by citation.


Why should it be?  Don't poke the sleeping bear.

Some may be see it as apathy, some may see it as common sense.  My
decades in FCC enforcement taught me to differentiate the two after one
Division Chief asked me "don't you have anything better to do with your
time..  "  :)

I'd much rather err on the side of caution.  Turning off the OS sounds 
is not a complete solution.



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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 10:58 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


That doesn't prevent other sounds - particularly VoIP (Zoom/Skype)
and steaming audio (Pandor, Podcasts, etc.) from reaching the rig
(and being transmitted if the digital program is running and/or
the VOX is enabled).


Why would one keep these programs running while one is using ham radio 
on the computer?  "Multi-tasking" has its limits.  Thank Bill Gates et. 
al. for the concept of "Windows" being able to run everything all at 
once. Make up your mind - make a choice.


We have an old ethnic saying - you can't sit in two chairs with one bottom.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 10:33 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:


On 1/1/2021 10:20 AM, Wes wrote:
Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate. 


I disagree, most users are not adept at the trivia in the drivers, so  > the chances of errant audio (monitor the microphone locally check 

mark) > increases the risk of transmitting 'garbage'.

And these are the people that we trust to operate a radio transmitter 
capable of causing harmful interference that can cause serious health 
and welfare damage?  How much skill is necessary to turn off a function 
the procedure of which can be defined in four or five short 
easy-to-follow sentences?  Maybe this should be included in license 
review classes.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 10:22 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

While I'm not an attorney, I've read the rules (subject to 
interpretation of course).


That's always a good start.

Considering the general apathy of the FCC lately (US of course), I'm 
not surprised that this has never been tested by citation.


Why should it be?  Don't poke the sleeping bear.

Some may be see it as apathy, some may see it as common sense.  My
decades in FCC enforcement taught me to differentiate the two after one
Division Chief asked me "don't you have anything better to do with your
time..  "  :)

I'd much rather err on the side of caution.  Turning off the OS 
sounds is not a complete solution.


Sounds like pretty much a solution - if the sounds don't get generated
they don't get into the audio chain.  Of course the sounds generated by
the programs need to be turned off as well.  That's the job of the operator.


Using a sound card, specific and limited to the radio use, is a vast
improvement over using the OS sounds device to maintain legality.

I go one better - I use a specific computer only for ham radio use.

Happy New Year.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

 
I've used the Syba USB 2.0 24 bit 96KHz DAC before.
Search for B00KGK5I38 on Amazon


It's currently listed at 22.99   





- Original Message -

From: "Bill Frantz"  
To: "Rick Bates, NK7I"  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:14:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3 

I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this 
issue, because a fair number of public service events involve 
providing communication support for parades, and parades have 
bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise 
canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official 
ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the 
ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC. 

Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For 
starts, it's not incidental to legal communication. 

73 Bill AE6JV 

On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, rick.n...@gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote: 

>Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other 
>than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for 
>digital) is illegal. 
> 
>This includes background music in the same room as the 
>microphone (though generally ignored as part of the 
>environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an 
>autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the 
>'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication). 

--- 
Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle 
(408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150 
Rivermead Rd #235 
www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum | 
Peterborough, NH 03458 

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Ray]

I use my standard computers sound card for Digital Mode, works Fine.
Save your money!   Ray WA6VAB K3 

Windows 10

From: donov...@erols.com
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 2:31 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Transmitting voice or music to the FT8 interface is a big problem for 
other users. It creates interference across the entire SSB filter bandwidth, 
not just in a single FT8 signal bandwidth. If you operate FT8 or any 
other digital mode you hear Microsoft musical notes and voice every day. 


The most reliable way to avoid interfering with every other FT8 user 
is to use an external sound card. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 






- Original Message -

From: "Bill Frantz"  
To: "Rick Bates, NK7I"  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:14:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3 

I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this 
issue, because a fair number of public service events involve 
providing communication support for parades, and parades have 
bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise 
canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official 
ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the 
ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC. 

Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For 
starts, it's not incidental to legal communication. 

73 Bill AE6JV 

On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, rick.n...@gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote: 

>Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other 
>than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for 
>digital) is illegal. 
> 
>This includes background music in the same room as the 
>microphone (though generally ignored as part of the 
>environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an 
>autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the 
>'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication). 

--- 
Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle 
(408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150 
Rivermead Rd #235 
www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum | 
Peterborough, NH 03458 

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[donovanf]

Transmitting voice or music to the FT8 interface is a big problem for 
other users. It creates interference across the entire SSB filter bandwidth, 
not just in a single FT8 signal bandwidth. If you operate FT8 or any 
other digital mode you hear Microsoft musical notes and voice every day. 


The most reliable way to avoid interfering with every other FT8 user 
is to use an external sound card. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 






- Original Message -

From: "Bill Frantz"  
To: "Rick Bates, NK7I"  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:14:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3 

I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this 
issue, because a fair number of public service events involve 
providing communication support for parades, and parades have 
bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise 
canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official 
ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the 
ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC. 

Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For 
starts, it's not incidental to legal communication. 

73 Bill AE6JV 

On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, rick.n...@gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote: 

>Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other 
>than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for 
>digital) is illegal. 
> 
>This includes background music in the same room as the 
>microphone (though generally ignored as part of the 
>environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an 
>autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the 
>'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication). 

--- 
Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle 
(408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150 
Rivermead Rd #235 
www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum | 
Peterborough, NH 03458 

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Bill Frantz]

I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this 
issue, because a fair number of public service events involve 
providing communication support for parades, and parades have 
bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise 
canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official 
ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the 
ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC.


Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For 
starts, it's not incidental to legal communication.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, rick.n...@gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote:

Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other 
than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for 
digital) is illegal.


This includes background music in the same room as the 
microphone (though generally ignored as part of the 
environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an 
autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the 
'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication).


---
Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  |is there are so many to choose| 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum| 
Peterborough, NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Given the garbage audio heard on the bands, you are one in 10,000
who does not do *some* of the other things with the shack computer.

The number of amateurs using some kind of DX alerting system and/or
streaming music while waiting for someone else to find them "a new
one" to work in significant and you can hear most of their alerts
or music on the air from time to time.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 2:18 PM, Wes wrote:
How about using, as I do, a totally separate computer that runs the 
radio equipment and logging functions.  All of that other stuff is 
banned from the shack and done on the desktop computer in the office.  I 
don't need audible alerts of anything, thanks.


Wes  N7WS


On 1/1/2021 11:58 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


That doesn't prevent other sounds - particularly VoIP (Zoom/Skype)
and steaming audio (Pandor, Podcasts, etc.) from reaching the rig
(and being transmitted if the digital program is running and/or
the VOX is enabled).

There *IS NO BETTER SOLUTION* than a separate sound card for the
rig connection and proper a properly configured operating system
that separates "computer audio" and "radio audio".

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 1:20 PM, Wes wrote:

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating 
system sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital 
portions of the bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.



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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Jim Brown]

On 1/1/2021 11:05 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

Here's my writeup of a study that I did several years ago.


Sorry, forgot the link.

http://k9yc.com/USB_Interfaces.pdf

BTW -- the study consisted of hundreds of active comparisons of the 
tested units with the built-in interface of a pretty good Thinkpad. The 
setup was two Thinkpads, each decoding JT65 from my K3's line output.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Wes]

How about using, as I do, a totally separate computer that runs the radio 
equipment and logging functions.  All of that other stuff is banned from the 
shack and done on the desktop computer in the office.  I don't need audible 
alerts of anything, thanks.


Wes  N7WS


On 1/1/2021 11:58 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


That doesn't prevent other sounds - particularly VoIP (Zoom/Skype)
and steaming audio (Pandor, Podcasts, etc.) from reaching the rig
(and being transmitted if the digital program is running and/or
the VOX is enabled).

There *IS NO BETTER SOLUTION* than a separate sound card for the
rig connection and proper a properly configured operating system
that separates "computer audio" and "radio audio".

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 1:20 PM, Wes wrote:

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system 
sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of the 
bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

You're making fun of care and caution?

Mistakes will happen (forgetting to turn VOX off when done with the QSO; 
bumping the key, the snoring cat laying on the microphone switch) but 
that is not the same level of mistake as transmitting ambient noise, 
operating system sounds (of any type) or similar.


We are all liable for what is produced by our stations; we should take 
that seriously and do our best to manage them.  It's been clear that 
there are many that don't as often found on the bands.


73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 10:57 AM, Wes wrote:
We should go back to a toggle switch on the front panel for 
transmit/receive because having VOX turned on might allow an 
inadvertent transmission of shack noise.  Likewise, with QSK on CW 
accidentally bumping the key will send unwanted garbage.  We should be 
protected from ourselves making mistakes.


Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[N4ZR]

Joe's right - I had a brain fade.You select Data as your mode and then 
select AFSK A, not DATA A, with the DATA MD button.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

On 2021-01-01 11:52 AM, N4ZR wrote:

> Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems
> to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for
> external FSK hardware.

Better yet.  Use AFSK_A for RTTY since it contains a transmit audio
filter to keep the AFSK clean. Use DATA_A for other audio based data
modes that require USB and some flexibility in the audio bandwidth.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 11:52 AM, N4ZR wrote:
I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my 
second, and still available.  Most of my audio problems are Windows 
10's fault, or mine.


Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK 
seems to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement 
for external FSK hardware.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my 
older K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or 
inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min 
YouTube instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject 
matter doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual 
rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related 
digital modes down the line.

Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we 
warned not to bother…

Craig WF6Q





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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Jim Brown]

On 1/1/2021 8:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.


Here's my writeup of a study that I did several years ago. I'm still 
using the Tascam in my station, and the Numark for portable setups. A 
year or two ago, I bought another of the Tascam on eBay to have as a 
spare. Petr, AG6EE, swears by his ASUS Xonar for the extensive 6M grid 
expeditions he does with his KX3.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

That doesn't prevent other sounds - particularly VoIP (Zoom/Skype)
and steaming audio (Pandor, Podcasts, etc.) from reaching the rig
(and being transmitted if the digital program is running and/or
the VOX is enabled).

There *IS NO BETTER SOLUTION* than a separate sound card for the
rig connection and proper a properly configured operating system
that separates "computer audio" and "radio audio".

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 1:20 PM, Wes wrote:

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating 
system sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital 
portions of the bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Wes]

We should go back to a toggle switch on the front panel for transmit/receive 
because having VOX turned on might allow an inadvertent transmission of shack 
noise.  Likewise, with QSK on CW accidentally bumping the key will send unwanted 
garbage.  We should be protected from ourselves making mistakes.


Wes  N7WS

On 1/1/2021 10:48 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any random 
update) it's a bad idea.  Leaving one small check mark in a lower level driver 
setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is but one example.  
There are  too  many ways to make an error. Using the computer sound card on a 
radio is not 'set and forget'.


We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to operate 
a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go.  Setting boundaries is part of 
that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in radio).


Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and apps 
that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype audio).  The 
small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the radio(s) is 
certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.


73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_. 
Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't 
going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes 
setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my PC 
sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have upgraded my 
K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC CW down the one 
USB cable.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO 


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

I disagree, most users are not adept at the trivia in the drivers, so 
the chances of errant audio (monitor the microphone locally check mark) 
increases the risk of transmitting 'garbage'.


The user also loses the benefits provided by the OS sounds (as said in 
another email here on the list).


The average ham radio costs at least hundreds of dollars to buy, an 
adequate sound card is under $10-20.  It's not an economic strain.  The 
cost of wire for a simple antenna, costs much more.


Many newer radios come with a sound device built in; just use that and 
let the OS do things as designed for audio.


73,
Rick NK7I


On 1/1/2021 10:20 AM, Wes wrote:

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

HNY Phil,

While I'm not an attorney, I've read the rules (subject to 
interpretation of course).  Transmission of music is specifically 
unlawful.  (What is defined as music these days, also subject to 
interpretation, hi hi.)


Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other than for 
the purposes of communication (voice, tones for digital) is illegal.


This includes background music in the same room as the microphone 
(though generally ignored as part of the environment, in the US; same as 
telephone 'hold' music in an autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and 
certainly includes the 'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no 
communication).


Which, to me, means the sounds from an OS are unlawful to transmit.  If 
the incidental OS sound is spoken ("You have mail"), that isn't legal in 
the digital, non-phone) portions of the bands.  At the very least, they 
use more spectrum than necessary (i.e. 3 KHz bandwidth in an area for 
FT8, which uses ~60 Hz bandwidth per user) and offer nothing for 
communication.


Considering the general apathy of the FCC lately (US of course), I'm not 
surprised that this has never been tested by citation.  I'd much rather 
err on the side of caution.  Turning off the OS sounds is not a complete 
solution.


Using a sound card, specific and limited to the radio use, is a vast 
improvement over using the OS sounds device to maintain legality.


73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 10:04 AM, Phil Kane wrote:

On 1/1/2021 8:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating 
system sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital 
portions of the bands.


Please explain your comment "all illegal" concerning "operating system 
sounds". As both a telecommunications engineer and a communications 
attorney I have never had to deal with the legality or illegality of 
"operating system sounds".


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Wes]

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system sounds 
(all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of the bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Phil Kane]

On 1/1/2021 8:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system 
sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of 
the bands.


Please explain your comment "all illegal" concerning "operating system 
sounds". As both a telecommunications engineer and a communications 
attorney I have never had to deal with the legality or illegality of 
"operating system sounds".


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any 
random update) it's a bad idea.  Leaving one small check mark in a lower 
level driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is 
but one example.  There are  too  many ways to make an error.  Using the 
computer sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.


We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to 
operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go.  Setting 
boundaries is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in 
radio).


Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and 
apps that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype 
audio).  The small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the 
radio(s) is certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.


73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_. 
Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world 
isn't going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding 
includes setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. 
I've used my PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years. 
Now I have upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, 
PTT and PC CW down the one USB cable.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Mike Harris via Elecraft]

Not really. It all boils down to understanding what you are doing. 
Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't 
going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes 
setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my 
PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have 
upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC 
CW down the one USB cable.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO



On 01/01/2021 13:56, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system 
sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of 
the bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Bill Frantz]

I have been quite successful with a $5 dongle from Amazon which 
I use with my KX3. I had to install a attenuator which is a 1K 
ohm resistor between the mic in and ground and a 47K ohm 
resistor between KX3 headphone out and mic in. (Note that these 
values aren's critical. Fred Cady recommends 33 ohm and 270 ohm 
respectively.) Since everything fits in the shell of the 3.5mm 
plug, it makes a very light, compact system which is nice with a 
portable radio.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/1/21 at 11:38 AM, li...@subich.com (Joe Subich, W4TV) wrote:


Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3.  I would
avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
and earphones).


-
Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | around us, is there any choice | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | 
Peterborough, NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Jim McDonald]

I've used that successfully too.  Here's a link to it on Amazon:

https://tinyurl.com/yanzfatr

I discontinued using it when I got my K3S and later my microKEYER III, which I 
like very much.

73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-


I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my second, and 
still available.  Most of my audio problems are Windows 10's fault, or mine.

Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems to work 
very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for external FSK hardware.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:
> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
> Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
> instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
> seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
> Windows 10 desktop.
> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
> modes down the line.
> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned 
> not to bother… Craig WF6Q
>
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system 
sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of 
the bands.


HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:

You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[N4ZR]

I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my 
second, and still available.  Most of my audio problems are Windows 10's 
fault, or mine.


Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems 
to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for 
external FSK hardware.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
modes down the line.
Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to 
bother…
Craig WF6Q

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Wes]

One of the neatest things about a K3(S) is the ease of running sound card modes 
using the built-in features.  Personally I would, and did, use AFSK on RTTY.  
You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.  Use two audio 
cable from Line In, Line Out, VOX, AFSK and MMTTY and you're done.  I use low 
tones (915) since I like to "listen" to the receiver.  Some will argue that a 
better sound card will decode more, I have not found that to be the case, at 
least comparing the Lenovo T400 to a TASCAM US-100.  Of course, a K3S makes this 
even easier.


I'll confess that in my desire to treat myself to one more new radio in this 
lifetime, I got tired of waiting for a K4 and bought a TS-890.  Putting it on 
RTTY was a PITA, since it runs FSK and needs serial port keying.  The radio 
provides a couple of virtual serial ports via USB so it's doable and works fine 
once all of the hoops are cleared.


Wes  N7WS

ps. I'm still an Elecrafter, my KPA500 and KAT500 work very well with the 
Kenwood.

On 1/1/2021 9:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
modes down the line.
Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to 
bother…
Craig WF6Q

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

For getting started, there is nothing 'wrong' about the SignaLink USB 
but there are better devices out there (less noise, better sensitivity, 
flatter response).  There are also many mods for it to make improvements.


So for now, use what you have and when it you can (as with anything 
station), make improvements.


HNY!,
Rick NK7I


On 1/1/2021 8:38 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older
K3.


Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3.  I would
avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
and earphones).

As long as you are not looking for voice DVK support (planning to loop
a microphone through the sound card) a simple sound card with just Line
In and Line Out will work just fine for RTTY (AFSK) and other audio
based data modes.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older 
K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or 
inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min 
YouTube instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter 
doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual 
rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related 
digital modes down the line.

Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned 
not to bother…

Craig WF6Q




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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Hank via Elecraft]

I run a Timewave PK-232sc+. Besides having an excellent quality sound card, you 
can run traditional FSK RTTY. If you have the 2 meter module installed, you can 
run VARA FM and 1200 baud packet for Winlink. 

If you have an older PK-232, you can buy the sound card kit which includes USB 
upgrades to the PK, adds a USB to serial converter, a USB hub, and software to 
switch the PK between sound card decoding and tradition packet,RTTY, Pactor etc 
modes. 

Ham made parts carries the hook up cables.  If you want to make your own, I 
have a schematic for the sound card,FSK, and CW connections on the PK. 

Hank
K4HYJ 

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Craig Wissman  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
> Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
> instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
> seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
> Windows 10 desktop.
> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
> modes down the line.
> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to 
> bother…
> Craig WF6Q
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older
K3.


Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3.  I would
avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
and earphones).

As long as you are not looking for voice DVK support (planning to loop
a microphone through the sound card) a simple sound card with just Line
In and Line Out will work just fine for RTTY (AFSK) and other audio
based data modes.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-01-01 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
modes down the line.
Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to 
bother…
Craig WF6Q




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[Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

[Craig Wissman]

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
Online equipment refs  I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018  1:55min YouTube 
instructions.   Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t 
seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. 
Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital 
modes down the line.
Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to 
bother…
Craig WF6Q

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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