Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
I believe the calibration is under the label on top of the slug. I would guess if you had knowledge of a source of RF that would deflect the meter accurately mid scale given the slug you were calibrating, then that would be the best you could do. Not it matters for most ham radio use...fairly accurate repeatability is probably a much more valuable test result. Chuck KE9UW c-haw...@illinois.edu Sent from my iPad > On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dave B via Elecraft > wrote: > > Hi. > > I would not trust a Bird 43 or similar meter for any "Measurements" > whatsoever. > > Especially if you cannot prove that the slugs and meter body were > calibrated together. > > They are notoriously inaccurate, but are good for quick "power presence" > indications, and "ball bark" VSWR checks. > > I honestly do not know why Bird 43's etc, are so coveted by the ham > community, they are awful things for making measurements.. > > Note that the difference between 8W and 15W, is a bit less than 3dB. > (2.73dB, or less than half an 'S' point!) > > And for 3 and 2.5W it's 0.79dB (Less than 1dB is not bad.) > > Also, how good is the MFJ load at VHF, VSWR wise. The spec says 1.5:1 > above 30MHz. What did the radio say about that? > > 73. > > Dave G0WBX (Who's spent the last 30+ years working with QRO RF for a > living. kHz to 10's of GHz, and many 10's of kW's.) > > >> On 11/07/2020 20:40, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: >> From: Frank O'Donnell >> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" >> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 power out >> Message-ID: <07eb80bf-c36b-e2f8-b4f8-52144e84b...@inkbox.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working >> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check >> the power out. >> >> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a >> Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put >> the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to >> each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button. >> >> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird >> showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. >> >> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio >> set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. >> >> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? >> >> Thanks and 73, >> >> Frank K6FOD > > -- > Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open > source software: > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
Hi. I would not trust a Bird 43 or similar meter for any "Measurements" whatsoever. Especially if you cannot prove that the slugs and meter body were calibrated together. They are notoriously inaccurate, but are good for quick "power presence" indications, and "ball bark" VSWR checks. I honestly do not know why Bird 43's etc, are so coveted by the ham community, they are awful things for making measurements.. Note that the difference between 8W and 15W, is a bit less than 3dB. (2.73dB, or less than half an 'S' point!) And for 3 and 2.5W it's 0.79dB (Less than 1dB is not bad.) Also, how good is the MFJ load at VHF, VSWR wise. The spec says 1.5:1 above 30MHz. What did the radio say about that? 73. Dave G0WBX (Who's spent the last 30+ years working with QRO RF for a living. kHz to 10's of GHz, and many 10's of kW's.) On 11/07/2020 20:40, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: > From: Frank O'Donnell > To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" > Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 power out > Message-ID: <07eb80bf-c36b-e2f8-b4f8-52144e84b...@inkbox.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working > through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check > the power out. > > For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a > Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put > the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to > each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button. > > On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird > showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. > > After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio > set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. > > Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? > > Thanks and 73, > > Frank K6FOD -- Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software: __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
I also have the KX3 with 2m module and ATU. My understanding is Auto is used to tune the antenna but you then switch to MAN to operate after the ATU tunes to your antenna (my KXPA100/KXTA100 works the same way). My original 2m module (kit) did not reach full output so I returned the module to Elecraft and they fixed it. But I still only see 2.5w output on my Bird meter with 25C element into Bird load. My guess the Bird is off calibration though 5% of 25 is 1.25w, so it could be just the limit of the Bird's accuracy. I use it to drive a 60w MOT amp that only needs 2w drive so all good. My KX3 only outputs 12w on HF but I haven't upgraded firmware so maybe that would increase to 15w. No matter as the KXPA100 only requires about 5.5w drive for 100w out on 80-10m and 8w provides 80w on 6m (which is normal). I think the ATU is kind of fussy at times and I have to redo the tuning to have it work right. I usually trust the power & SWR meter on the KXPA100 for day to day use. I have two Bird meters (one is permanently in my 2m-eme antenna line). A couple years ago I discovered the calibration limits of Bird elements when using a 250E element to measure my 150w 1296 amp. It only read 125w. But the element is rated for 400-1000 MHz and falls off above that (which explains the low reading). I now have a 600w amp on 1296 and use directional couplers and my HP432A mw power meter. The 250E and 500E are grossly inaccurate at 1296. BTW Bird dummy loads can be found on e-bay and other ham lists. They are rated to 1000 MHz. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
On 7/11/20 8:40 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote: The KX3 will definitely cut way back on power out if it sees a mismatched load or a line voltage drop. I use my KX3 to tune a screwdriver antenna. I normally set the power out to about 3W, but sometimes forget and leave it at 15W. When matched, it puts out a full 15W. When it sees a high SWR, it will cut back to a few watts. I have the tuner bypassed. The KX3 will show you what it sees as the SWR as well as the power, and you can also look at reflected power on the Bird. Hopefully those will tell you something. Interesting info, thanks. I'm still baffled at why putting the ATU on auto and tapping to tune would cause the wattmeter to show TPO at 25 watts. Frank __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
On the KX3 display, the voltage is 14.3v at idle, 13.8v key-down. At the power supply, 14.5v idle, 14.15v key-down. On 7/11/20 7:51 PM, Brian Hunt wrote: What is the key-down voltage seen on the KX3 display? Measure the regulated voltage at the PS under the same conditions. Is it OK? I had power control problems on my K3 until I solved the sagging voltage problem. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 7:06 PM Frank O'Donnell wrote: > As for Walter's point about the ATU, the results are mighty odd. I just > set the KX3 to 40 meters with 15 watts out, appropriate slug in the Bird > 43, set ATU to bypass and started keying. The power out dropped to about > 5w. I then set ATU to auto and tapped the ATU Tune button. With the > radio still set to 15w out, the Bird now peaked at about 25w! Is it > plausible that antenna tuning activity within the KX3 could actually > increase the TPO by ~5x? Or does that cast even more suspicion on the Bird? The KX3 will definitely cut way back on power out if it sees a mismatched load or a line voltage drop. I use my KX3 to tune a screwdriver antenna. I normally set the power out to about 3W, but sometimes forget and leave it at 15W. When matched, it puts out a full 15W. When it sees a high SWR, it will cut back to a few watts. I have the tuner bypassed. The KX3 will show you what it sees as the SWR as well as the power, and you can also look at reflected power on the Bird. Hopefully those will tell you something. 73, Mark W7MLG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
What is the key-down voltage seen on the KX3 display? Measure the regulated voltage at the PS under the same conditions. Is it OK? I had power control problems on my K3 until I solved the sagging voltage problem. GL & 73, K0DTJ > On Jul 11, 2020, at 12:42, Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > Always something else I remember just after hitting send. > > The KX3 is running off the Pro Audio Engineering PAE-Kx33 power supply, > plugged into the 9-15 vdc connector. > >> On 7/11/20 12:40 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: >> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working >> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check the >> power out. >> >> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a Bird >> 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put the KX3 in >> CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to each HF band I hit >> the ATU Tune button. >> >> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird showed >> about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. >> >> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio set >> to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. >> >> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? >> >> Thanks and 73, >> >> Frank K6FOD > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to huntin...@coastside.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
I believe that the KX3 does not have bypass relays in its ATU. Instead, when you select "Bypass", it sets the ATU to have no C or L added. If the ATU is not functioning correctly, perhaps with a stuck relay, it may still be affecting the measurements. 73 Bill AE6JV On 7/11/20 at 10:05 PM, vf...@inkbox.net (Frank O'Donnell) wrote: As for Walter's point about the ATU, the results are mighty odd. I just set the KX3 to 40 meters with 15 watts out, appropriate slug in the Bird 43, set ATU to bypass and started keying. The power out dropped to about 5w. I then set ATU to auto and tapped the ATU Tune button. With the radio still set to 15w out, the Bird now peaked at about 25w! Is it plausible that antenna tuning activity within the KX3 could actually increase the TPO by ~5x? Or does that cast even more suspicion on the Bird? --- Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle (408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150 Rivermead Rd #235 www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum| Peterborough, NH 03458 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
This procedure (manual, or automated via the KX3 Utility) applies only to 160-6M Grant NQ5T > On Jul 11, 2020, at 10:05 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > On 7/11/20 1:19 PM, Grant Youngman wrote: >> As a start, I’d recommend running through TX GAIN calibration using the KX3 >> Utility … > > Good suggestion. If a 2-meter module is installed, as is the case with mine, > I wonder if the automated calibration using the KX3 Utility flies through all > the bands including that one? I wouldn't want to start pressing buttons and > find out the wrong way. The reason for my concern is that I only have one > dummy load, the MFJ-260C. I'd like to get ahold of the Oak Hills Research > RFL-100 mentioned here recently, but unfortunately when I tried to order one > a few days ago his website said all sales had been suspended indefinitely due > to COVID. I guess I can either scrounge another dummy load, or do the > calibration band-by-band manually. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
On 7/11/20 1:19 PM, Grant Youngman wrote: As a start, I’d recommend running through TX GAIN calibration using the KX3 Utility … Good suggestion. If a 2-meter module is installed, as is the case with mine, I wonder if the automated calibration using the KX3 Utility flies through all the bands including that one? I wouldn't want to start pressing buttons and find out the wrong way. The reason for my concern is that I only have one dummy load, the MFJ-260C. I'd like to get ahold of the Oak Hills Research RFL-100 mentioned here recently, but unfortunately when I tried to order one a few days ago his website said all sales had been suspended indefinitely due to COVID. I guess I can either scrounge another dummy load, or do the calibration band-by-band manually. Re Mark's questions about the Bird 43 and slugs, I do have an older Bird that I don't trust a great deal, but this one was bought new about a year ago, and the slugs are the same vintage or newer. I can try them out with other radios. As for Walter's point about the ATU, the results are mighty odd. I just set the KX3 to 40 meters with 15 watts out, appropriate slug in the Bird 43, set ATU to bypass and started keying. The power out dropped to about 5w. I then set ATU to auto and tapped the ATU Tune button. With the radio still set to 15w out, the Bird now peaked at about 25w! Is it plausible that antenna tuning activity within the KX3 could actually increase the TPO by ~5x? Or does that cast even more suspicion on the Bird? Frank __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
You should not need an ATU with a dummy load. Put the ATU in bypass. Did you send dits or a constant carrier? I recommend using RTTY or FM to get a constant carrier. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Jul 11, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > Always something else I remember just after hitting send. > > The KX3 is running off the Pro Audio Engineering PAE-Kx33 power supply, > plugged into the 9-15 vdc connector. > > On 7/11/20 12:40 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: >> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working >> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check the >> power out. >> >> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a Bird >> 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put the KX3 in >> CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to each HF band I hit >> the ATU Tune button. >> >> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird showed >> about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. >> >> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio set >> to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. >> >> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? >> >> Thanks and 73, >> >> Frank K6FOD >> >> >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
As a start, I’d recommend running through TX GAIN calibration using the KX3 Utility … Grant NQ5T > On Jul 11, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > Always something else I remember just after hitting send. > > The KX3 is running off the Pro Audio Engineering PAE-Kx33 power supply, > plugged into the 9-15 vdc connector. > > On 7/11/20 12:40 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: >> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working >> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check the >> power out. >> >> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a Bird >> 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put the KX3 in >> CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to each HF band I hit >> the ATU Tune button. >> >> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird showed >> about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. >> >> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio set >> to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. >> >> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? >> >> Thanks and 73, >> >> Frank K6FOD >> >> >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ghyoung...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:41 PM Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working > through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check > the power out. > > For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a > Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put > the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to > each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button. > > On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird > showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. > > After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio > set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. > > Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? > >The KX3 is running off the Pro Audio Engineering PAE-Kx33 power supply, >plugged into the 9-15 vdc connector. Do you know that the Bird and slugs are good? Do you know that the dummy load is good? Bird meters, when they are calibrated, are specified at 5% of full scale, so +/- 1.25 W for the 25 W element and +/- 0.5W for the 10W element. Bird meters are rugged, but not really all that accurate. The dummy load should be 50 ohms resistive over the frequency range of interest. If they have been cooked, they often change. So, for two meters being off by 0.5W is within the calibration accuracy, even if the slug was calibrated. Slugs don't usually drift much though, unless cooked. Hams hardly ever calibrate their test equipment because it does cost a lot to do so, and it has to be done every year or two. In the case of the slugs, I think that calibration means measure and if bad, chuck it. The meter itself has a calibration, I believe. For 40M and 20m the readings are so different that it is likely something is wrong. Can you measure a different rig or with a different meter? 73, Mark W7MLG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
Always something else I remember just after hitting send. The KX3 is running off the Pro Audio Engineering PAE-Kx33 power supply, plugged into the 9-15 vdc connector. On 7/11/20 12:40 PM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check the power out. For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button. On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? Thanks and 73, Frank K6FOD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KX3 power out
After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check the power out. For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button. On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w. After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out. Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check? Thanks and 73, Frank K6FOD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
John, The KX3 (or the K3 or K2) will not control its power output properly unless you drive the audio sufficiently. The ALC meter on the K3 and KX3 is a combination of an audio level meter and ALC meter. Below 5 bars indicated is really the 'no ALC' range. So adjust the soundcard audio and/or the KX3 mic gain to produce 4 bars on the ALC meter. After doing that, adjust to the desired power with the power knob. Remember that the KX3 will attempt to maintain the power level requested, so if your audio level is too low, the power control will become erratic and creep up and down. What I am saying is that attempting to control the power output with the audio level will not result in proper operation. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/2/2015 12:44 AM, John wrote: Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? It's hard to shake my Icom digital interface habits. Thanks. John, kx4o On 3/2/2015 12:34 AM, k3...@comcast.net wrote: John, The manual states that you should keep the ALC bars in the not to exceed 5 range. This keeps distortion down. Power is controlled by other means. As the radio is not rated for 100% duty cycle for 10 Watts, I would recommend that you stay under 4 Watts for the digital modes if running barefoot. 73, Barry K3NDM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
Thanks Walter. I think I understand now. What is the loop bandwidth of the power control loop? Thanks. John, kx4o On Mon, March 2, 2015 05:54, Walter Underwood wrote: No. Most likely the power varied as it was hunting for the right level. It probably started low then increased power slowly throughout each transmission. wunder Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) On Mar 1, 2015, at 9:44 PM, John k...@hamradio.me wrote: Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
That is a question for the designers, but it clearly adjusts much, much more slowly than amplitude modulation frequencies (to avoid distortion). This is a closed loop power control, like commercial transmitters. Most amateur transmitters are fixed gain, so this is a surprise for nearly every new Elecraft owner. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Mar 2, 2015, at 8:08 AM, John Huggins, kx4o k...@hamradio.me wrote: Thanks Walter. I think I understand now. What is the loop bandwidth of the power control loop? Thanks. John, kx4o On Mon, March 2, 2015 05:54, Walter Underwood wrote: No. Most likely the power varied as it was hunting for the right level. It probably started low then increased power slowly throughout each transmission. wunder Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) On Mar 1, 2015, at 9:44 PM, John k...@hamradio.me wrote: Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
Hello all, I had a successful binge of RTTY this weekend in the NAQP using the KX3, audio interface and N1MM (MMTTY). This was hastily assembled after the audio interface arrived Saturday. Things came together splendidly whereupon I made QSOs with west coast stations from Virginia. Only after the contest did I realize I was a bit too conservative with the output power. I set the interface's audio transmit pot to yield not 4, not 3, not 2, not 1, but ZERO ALC bars. I did confirm transmit using a separate receiver and, of course, the contacts I made were quick, simple and productive. I saw it worked so just forgot about the ALC settings. I read in the manual the suggestion to adjust audio-in to yield about 4 bars ALC. My radio power was set to 5 watts. Question: Is there a chart of graph I've somehow missed relating ALC bars to the percentage of power output setting? Thanks. John, kx4o __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
John, The manual states that you should keep the ALC bars in the not to exceed 5 range. This keeps distortion down. Power is controlled by other means. As the radio is not rated for 100% duty cycle for 10 Watts, I would recommend that you stay under 4 Watts for the digital modes if running barefoot. 73, Barry K3NDM - Original Message - From: John k...@hamradio.me To: elecraft Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 12:13:05 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars Hello all, I had a successful binge of RTTY this weekend in the NAQP using the KX3, audio interface and N1MM (MMTTY). This was hastily assembled after the audio interface arrived Saturday. Things came together splendidly whereupon I made QSOs with west coast stations from Virginia. Only after the contest did I realize I was a bit too conservative with the output power. I set the interface's audio transmit pot to yield not 4, not 3, not 2, not 1, but ZERO ALC bars. I did confirm transmit using a separate receiver and, of course, the contacts I made were quick, simple and productive. I saw it worked so just forgot about the ALC settings. I read in the manual the suggestion to adjust audio-in to yield about 4 bars ALC. My radio power was set to 5 watts. Question: Is there a chart of graph I've somehow missed relating ALC bars to the percentage of power output setting? Thanks. John, kx4o __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k3...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? It's hard to shake my Icom digital interface habits. Thanks. John, kx4o On 3/2/2015 12:34 AM, k3...@comcast.net wrote: John, The manual states that you should keep the ALC bars in the not to exceed 5 range. This keeps distortion down. Power is controlled by other means. As the radio is not rated for 100% duty cycle for 10 Watts, I would recommend that you stay under 4 Watts for the digital modes if running barefoot. 73, Barry K3NDM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
No. Most likely the power varied as it was hunting for the right level. It probably started low then increased power slowly throughout each transmission. wunder Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) On Mar 1, 2015, at 9:44 PM, John k...@hamradio.me wrote: Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? It's hard to shake my Icom digital interface habits. Thanks. John, kx4o On 3/2/2015 12:34 AM, k3...@comcast.net wrote: John, The manual states that you should keep the ALC bars in the not to exceed 5 range. This keeps distortion down. Power is controlled by other means. As the radio is not rated for 100% duty cycle for 10 Watts, I would recommend that you stay under 4 Watts for the digital modes if running barefoot. 73, Barry K3NDM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars
Actually, the Icom followed the same rules, but you got there differently. I suspect that your Icom is rated at 100 Watts peak. Meaning you need to adjust the input to keep the level down to 1/4-1/3 the rated output. And, you may have need to back down on the input auto further so as to not generate too much ALC action. This satisfied two problems, distortion and over heating of the finals. The rules are the same for the KX3, keep distortion low and don't over heat the final. Elecraft says not to kick up too many bars for ALC. That's for distortion. Use the power control to keep your power down to the 100% duty cycle level. Your audio input controls the ALC. I don't have my manual handy, but I can say it is covered there. 73, Barry K3NDM - Original Message - From: John k...@hamradio.me To: k3...@comcast.net Cc: elecraft Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 12:44:07 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - Power out vs. ALC bars Is it safe to say my very low input audio level was compensated by the KX3's power control loop to yield 5 watts out (the actual radio power setting)? It's hard to shake my Icom digital interface habits. Thanks. John, kx4o On 3/2/2015 12:34 AM, k3...@comcast.net wrote: John, The manual states that you should keep the ALC bars in the not to exceed 5 range. This keeps distortion down. Power is controlled by other means. As the radio is not rated for 100% duty cycle for 10 Watts, I would recommend that you stay under 4 Watts for the digital modes if running barefoot. 73, Barry K3NDM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
