Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Matt Zilmer]

Just a benign note.  Primary aircraft engine controls will probably 
always be manual and "hard".  Procedures will always have paper backups, 
even if the manuals are also available via the glass in the flight 
deck.  Most navigation and related functions are already primary on 
touch, or at least "soft switches" aligned with the touchscreen, but I 
believe the FAA has requirements about hard instruments as backup (and 
primary instruments always will be).  I know nothing about military 
aviation requirements, but often their aircraft are more conservative in 
design than civilian equipment.


Touch screen controls are standard fare in consumer electronics, and one 
of the main reasons is that such devices are flexible in use cases and 
not very expensive.  Hard controls have a fixed cost structure.  
Consumer electronics are on a declining cost curve.


Note: I am an Elecraft employee.

73,

matt W6NIA


On 6/6/2016 5:52 PM, Kevin Stover wrote:

I agree totally.

One thing I never hope to see and thankfully probably won't is a pilot 
reaching for a touch screen while the aircraft is doing + or - 50ft 
"hops" in turbulence. Touch the screen to reduce thrust, slip of the 
finger and the engines shut off.
What's the procedure for restarting engines in turbulence like that? 
Wanna try that with a touch screen?


BTW, I'm the legally blind ham. Never did I mention in ANY email to 
this list pilots or cockpits, military or commercial...PERIOD. Some of 
you might do better focusing on your email editing and keyboard skills 
and forget the touch screens. The local community college probably has 
beginner computer classes available for continuing education credits.


I'm done.


On 6/6/2016 12:18 PM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:
As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch 
screens

I have mixed feelings.

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to 
continually

modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new 
version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been 
moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now 
obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating 
for

most users.

Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that 
companies feel

compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate 
egos
won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your 
beloved
radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over 
pretty and
modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, 
or an

Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary 
upgrades

for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
radio in the name of glitter..

It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so 
creates
compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the 
lifetime
of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't 
feel the
need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer! We 
shouldn't
be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell 
phones.  My

expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft 
products

rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.

73

len

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Kevin Stover]

I agree totally.

One thing I never hope to see and thankfully probably won't is a pilot 
reaching for a touch screen while the aircraft is doing + or - 50ft 
"hops" in turbulence. Touch the screen to reduce thrust, slip of the 
finger and the engines shut off.
What's the procedure for restarting engines in turbulence like that? 
Wanna try that with a touch screen?


BTW, I'm the legally blind ham. Never did I mention in ANY email to this 
list pilots or cockpits, military or commercial...PERIOD. Some of you 
might do better focusing on your email editing and keyboard skills and 
forget the touch screens. The local community college probably has 
beginner computer classes available for continuing education credits.


I'm done.


On 6/6/2016 12:18 PM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:

As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
I have mixed feelings.

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
most users.

Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that companies feel
compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate egos
won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your beloved
radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over pretty and
modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, or an
Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary upgrades
for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
radio in the name of glitter..

It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so creates
compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the lifetime
of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't feel the
need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer!  We shouldn't
be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell phones.  My
expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft products
rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.

73

len

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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Wes Stewart]

I still use IOS5 on my iPhone 4S;-)

On 6/6/2016 10:18 AM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:

As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
I have mixed feelings.

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
most users.


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Edward R Cole]

Tried to resist commenting, but Len's stood out 


Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:18:49 -0600
From: <l...@ka7ftp.com>
To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products
Message-ID: <05de01d1c017$7de97e10$79bc7a30$@ka7ftp.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
I have mixed feelings.

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
most users.

=Absolutely agree - why I am keeping my XP32-SP3 until it fails.  I 
will soon go off-line so security will not be any issue unless I load 
a file via flash-drive (which I will do occasionally).  Vista-win8 so 
frustrating I just didn't use that computer for much of anything.  I 
will use win10 (made better than win8 by customer revolt) for 
internet and e-mail (primarily).


=But my ham applications stay on XP32 where they work; no driver 
upgrades or hdwr upgrades.  For K3/KX3 firmware upgrades I  will just 
plug the USB cable into the win10, temporarily.


Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that companies feel
compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate egos
won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your beloved
radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over pretty and
modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, or an
Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary upgrades
for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
radio in the name of glitter..

=I chose the K3 because it is what I wanted: a good combo of 
traditional user interface with firmware upgradability.  I could have 
chosen a Flex-5000 at that point in time.  I run sw on my computer to 
control the K3 for the modes that need a more graphical 
display.  Normal voice modes work fine with knobs.  CW too.


It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so creates
compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the lifetime
of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't feel the
need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer!  We shouldn't
be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell phones.  My
expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft products
rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.

=every two years?  More like every two months.  My wife still uses 
her flip-phone for phone calls; has ipad for the other stuff, and a 
laptop, and a couple kindles; and another ipad which partially failed - enough!


=We have land-line telephone which includes our DSL (no fiber up here 
as yet).  I have no cell.  MY younger sister and her husband switched 
to only having cell; not sure how they get internet in Ohio?  Maybe 
only from their phones?


=progress is nice  but not just for the reason for selling stuff.

73



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Gary]

What he said

Gary

-Original Message-
From: "EricJ" <eric.c...@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎7/‎06/‎2016 4:03 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

With that, the thread effectively closed for me. Nobody has said it 
better. Thanks, Len.

Eric KE6US


On 6/6/2016 10:18 AM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:
> As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
> I have mixed feelings.
>
> My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
> modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
> footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
> pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
> their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
> crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
> in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
> most users.
>
> Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that companies feel
> compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
> their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
> with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate egos
> won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your beloved
> radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over pretty and
> modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, or an
> Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
> trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary upgrades
> for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
> radio in the name of glitter..
>
> It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
> radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
> everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so creates
> compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the lifetime
> of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't feel the
> need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer!  We shouldn't
> be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell phones.  My
> expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
> possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft products
> rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.
>
> 73
>
> len
>
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>

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[EricJ]

With that, the thread effectively closed for me. Nobody has said it 
better. Thanks, Len.


Eric KE6US


On 6/6/2016 10:18 AM, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote:

As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
I have mixed feelings.

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
most users.

Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that companies feel
compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate egos
won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your beloved
radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over pretty and
modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, or an
Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary upgrades
for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
radio in the name of glitter..

It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so creates
compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the lifetime
of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't feel the
need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer!  We shouldn't
be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell phones.  My
expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft products
rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.

73

len

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Robert Nobis]

Fingerprints on a touchscreen are very easy to clean.


Bob Nobis - N7RJN
n7...@nobis.net


> On Jun 5, 2016, at 19:50, K5HM <k5hm@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a new car with Touchscreen controls.  When the engine is off, I see 
> all the finger marks. Ugh.  No touchscreen for me. 
> 
> 73,
> Ron, K5HM
> k5hm@gmail.com
> www.qrz.com/db/k5hm
> 
>Excelsior!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry 
> More
> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:06 PM
> To: John <jkra...@iafrica.com>; n...@n5ge.com
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products
> 
> Oh,, and I wanted to point out that if you are using a computer with CAT then 
> most software packages allow  you to operate with keyboard shortcuts to QSY, 
> tune up, tune down, change modes, filters..etc.. all up to your imagination 
> depending on the software and your needs.
> Jer
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> From: Jerry Moore
> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:05 PM
> To: John; n...@n5ge.com
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products
> 
> Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
> value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low 
> (meaning the value is high). The only exception I can see would be 
> integrating the P3 as an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro 
> computer/ssd for logging, digital, extended macros...etc, basically what I'm 
> doing now with a raspberry pi). 
> 
> So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.
> 
> Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
> the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough? 
> 
> On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
> Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.
> 
> Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen 
> smart phones out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all 
> reaching for your keyboards to protest that phones and tablets are not the 
> same thing. Well, touch screen UI have also moved over to commercial 
> products, the military and airline pilots also use touch screen UI 
> communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial 
> aircraft and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham 
> radio.
> Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
> cost enormously, resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely 
> good. 
> Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
> need more knobs or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been 
> added……no problem with a touch screen.
> Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
> The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
> buttons when features are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some 
> knobs have three functions, and to try and remember what each knobs second or 
> third function does, becomes difficult.
> 
> Food for thought :-)
> 
> 73
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com> wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen capability the 
> manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize the error of their 
> ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough capital to revert to the 
> original design and fire the person responsible for the change.
> 
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
> Lynn,
> 
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for  blind 
> operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios  with 
> those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future  
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things  on and 
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally  released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more  flexible 
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's  really 
> time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of  "empty" 
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the  firmware grows 
> to need them.

Re: [Elecraft] New products

[len]

As a developer of both hardware and software products that use touch screens
I have mixed feelings.  

My number one gripe with soft environments is the tendency to continually
modify the environment and jam more and more functionality into the same
footprint.  This either needs to be done with width or depth, take your
pick.  Both Apple and Windows are horrible abusers.  Every new version of
their software requires users to hunt down functions that have been moved or
crammed down.  Functions that were originally intuitive are now obfuscated
in the name of progress. Lack of consistency is extremely frustrating for
most users.  

Today because of the ease of soft environments it seems that companies feel
compelled to continually bring a "new look" to each software revision of
their website or product.  How many of you think Yahoo scored a home run
with NEO?  In my opinion NEO is an absolute disaster.  But corporate egos
won't allow users out.  How would you like someone mucking with your beloved
radio in the name of pretty progress.  I'll take consistency over pretty and
modern every time.  I'm buying a radio, I don't want an iPhone clone, or an
Icom clone, I want my KX3 to look and exactly like the KX3 I bought.  I
trust the engineers at Elecraft to make acceptable and necessary upgrades
for functionality.  I also trust that they are not going to ruin a great
radio in the name of glitter.. 

It has been pointed out previously in this thread that all of Elecraft's
radios can be easily connected to a computer for computer control.  Not
everything in the world needs to be integrated, and often doing so creates
compromises that are much more difficult to live with and limit the lifetime
of a product.  I'm tickled pink with my Elecraft products and don't feel the
need for them to emulate anyone else to keep me as a customer!  We shouldn't
be compelled to buy a radio every two years like we do with cell phones.  My
expectation is to buy a product that will function for many years, and
possibly a decade or more.  I would rather have multiple Elecraft products
rather than one that pretends to be all things to all people.

73

len

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John]

Mark

I really thought this thread would have died by now :-)

Incorrect - I was incorrectly quoted by another guy saying that I said military 
aircraft used touch screen UI.
I did not say that, I said the military (not air force) used touch screens. The 
military do in my country, I 
don’t know about the USA. 
As far as commercial airlines, most airlines now use iPads. Taken from 
Wikipedia…quote

<<<>>>

So in my original post, and I still stand by it, Touch screen devices are being 
used in commercial 
airlines, and by the military (I didn’t say military aircraft), and if it is 
reliable enough for them to count
on, it  will surely be reliable enough for us hams

73
John











On 6 Jun 2016, at 6:36 PM, Mark, ars: KE6BB via Elecraft 
 wrote:

RE:  Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch sreens, and he 
is right.This is incorrect.

In my 45 years of military and airline aircraft engineering experience, I have 
not seen touch screens utilized to any significant extent in military or 
commercial aircraft displays.  They have all used "programable hardware keys".  
Look carefully at their displays you will see a row of hardware keys on the 
bezel that surrounds the display. The use of these programable hardware keys 
gives the best of the touch screen world where you can change the key function 
based on the displayed options, without sacraficing the ergonomic advantages of 
a real key.  The labels and functions of the keys change, but you press the 
hardware keys

It is really more than simply tactile feedback.  The ability to rest a gloved 
finger on the key before pressing is essential in the g-loaded world of flight. 
 Note that in many cases the keys have short guards, or more correctly, guides 
between the keys to help prevent dual or incorrect key presses.

Mark,
ars:  KE6BB
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Don,

Please tell us why a radio must have only one user interface?

We've had a long discussion of external programmable keypads for sighted 
operators.  Lot of people like them.


Same basic idea works for the visually impaired, and for those who just 
hate touch screens (or simply need more buttons).


73 -- Lynn

On 6/5/2016 12:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
with those blind operators particularly in mind.

A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] New Products

[EricJ]

Ham radio becomes indistinguishable from gaming with the rise of 
contesting. Now ham gaming becomes ham VR gaming with the advent of 
Hamthought.


Brave New World Two Hundred Meters and Down

Eric KE6US


On 6/6/2016 9:03 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

I can hardly wait to read the next Digest of this group regarding the New
Products discussion of touchscreens vs knob interfaced SD radios, because I
MUST have the latest interface technology in order to have any enjoyment of
Amateur Radio.  Alas, my beloved KX3 looks doomed because Hamthought, Inc.,
has just released their latest radio.  It has a Thought Screen.  All a ham
has to do is think of the frequency and the radio will go to it, as well as
any other function of the radio.  It is amazing technology and I think the
Elecraft, ICOM, and all other Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers are in
real trouble.  They are going to have to adapt to the new technology or go
out of business.  Hams realize that the fate of the world revolves around
the kind of interface a software-defined radio has.

  


73's,

  


Terry

  

  

  


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Mark , ars : KE6BB via Elecraft]

RE:  Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch sreens, and he 
is right.This is incorrect.

In my 45 years of military and airline aircraft engineering experience, I have 
not seen touch screens utilized to any significant extent in military or 
commercial aircraft displays.  They have all used "programable hardware keys".  
Look carefully at their displays you will see a row of hardware keys on the 
bezel that surrounds the display. The use of these programable hardware keys 
gives the best of the touch screen world where you can change the key function 
based on the displayed options, without sacraficing the ergonomic advantages of 
a real key.  The labels and functions of the keys change, but you press the 
hardware keys

It is really more than simply tactile feedback.  The ability to rest a gloved 
finger on the key before pressing is essential in the g-loaded world of flight. 
 Note that in many cases the keys have short guards, or more correctly, guides 
between the keys to help prevent dual or incorrect key presses.

Mark,
ars:  KE6BB
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Re: [Elecraft] New Products

[Phil Wheeler]

Terry,

A Thought Screen would be far too revealing, as 
would a Thought Keyboard on a computer :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 6/6/16 9:03 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

I can hardly wait to read the next Digest of this group regarding the New
Products discussion of touchscreens vs knob interfaced SD radios, because I
MUST have the latest interface technology in order to have any enjoyment of
Amateur Radio.  Alas, my beloved KX3 looks doomed because Hamthought, Inc.,
has just released their latest radio.  It has a Thought Screen.  All a ham
has to do is think of the frequency and the radio will go to it, as well as
any other function of the radio.  It is amazing technology and I think the
Elecraft, ICOM, and all other Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers are in
real trouble.  They are going to have to adapt to the new technology or go
out of business.  Hams realize that the fate of the world revolves around
the kind of interface a software-defined radio has.

  


73's,

  


Terry


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Re: [Elecraft] New Products

[Terry Brown]

I can hardly wait to read the next Digest of this group regarding the New
Products discussion of touchscreens vs knob interfaced SD radios, because I
MUST have the latest interface technology in order to have any enjoyment of
Amateur Radio.  Alas, my beloved KX3 looks doomed because Hamthought, Inc.,
has just released their latest radio.  It has a Thought Screen.  All a ham
has to do is think of the frequency and the radio will go to it, as well as
any other function of the radio.  It is amazing technology and I think the
Elecraft, ICOM, and all other Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers are in
real trouble.  They are going to have to adapt to the new technology or go
out of business.  Hams realize that the fate of the world revolves around
the kind of interface a software-defined radio has.

 

73's,

 

Terry

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I remember back in the early eighties when I worked at Microlog Inc. in 
Gaithersburg MD, we experimented with a black-box, knobless "radio" that 
connected directly to the antenna and a computer terminal.  The only analog 
components were to be the RF power  amp.  Back then, a 30 MEGAbit hard drive 
was considered HUGE, and typical clock speeds were still measured in (low) MHz 
ranges.
This box was to run only  RTTY and CW with around 50 watts (class C) output.  
We actually had a set working on low power, probably no higher than 80M and a 
few milliwatts of output.  We successfully communicated between rooms on RTTY.
Back then, terms like SDR etc., hadn't been created yet.

Luckily for me, all the principles at Microlog were very active hams so it was 
a lot of fun.  Unfortunately, this particular project never went into anything 
close to production although we had many lunch-time discussions about how kool 
it would be.

73, Charlie k3ICH

 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:57 AM
To: Ray Sills <raysil...@verizon.net>; Elecraft Reflector 
<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Yes Ray. If you had told someone 10 - 15 years ago that most phones would have 
touch screens with very few knobs, you would likely have been laughed at. Look 
at how much can more now be done  on a smart phone, compared to the old Nokia’s 
that were limited to a bunch of hardware buttons.

73
John




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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Wes Stewart]

You may disagree with it, but his comment is not "flawed."

On 6/5/2016 11:42 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch screens,
and he is right, but I have never seen or heard of blind aircraft
pilot so that part of his comment is flawed.



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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John]

Yes Ray. If you had told someone 10 - 15 years ago that most phones would have 
touch screens
with very few knobs, you would likely have been laughed at. Look at how much 
can more now be 
done  on a smart phone, compared to the old Nokia’s that were limited to a 
bunch of hardware buttons.

73
John




On 6 Jun 2016, at 2:44 PM, Ray Sills  wrote:

Hi John:

Indeed, it is true that on final, pilots use a visual reference to the ground.  
 Even there, many aircraft have an audio “readout” of height above ground for 
the last 100 feet of altitude.

I believe that in the future, we will see autonomously flown aircraft.  A lot 
of an airliner’s flight is already highly automated, so it will at some point 
be completely automated.  After all, it’s already being done with various 
spacecraft that need to get from point A to point B with little margin of error.

Whatever happens for ham radio, we’ll get used to it and adapt accordingly.  I 
remember once hearing some old-timer hams saying that they would never, ever, 
ever, operate that silly sideband mode.  It was too hard to tune in, and 
sounded wacky.  :)

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211


> On Jun 6, 2016, at 4:16 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> hahaha yes, but the reason you don’t see blind airline pilots, is because 
> they need to visually
> see the final approach and all the controls in the cockpit….and NOT because 
> their communication
> equipment is not blind friendly. Blind people use touch screen devices daily 
> - smart phones,
> tablets etc etc etc. 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John]

hahaha yes, but the reason you don’t see blind airline pilots, is because they 
need to visually
see the final approach and all the controls in the cockpit….and NOT because 
their communication
equipment is not blind friendly. Blind people use touch screen devices daily - 
smart phones,
tablets etc etc etc. 



On 6 Jun 2016, at 8:42 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  wrote:

Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch screens,
and he is right, but I have never seen or heard of blind aircraft
pilot so that part of his comment is flawed.

> On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John  wrote:
> Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

> Well, touch screen UI have
> also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots also 
> use touch screen
> UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial 
> aircraft
> and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham radio.

> 
> On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
> capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
> the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
> capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
> responsible for the change.
> 
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
> Lynn,
> 
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
> released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
> really time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
> firmware grows to need them.
> 
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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ARS N5GE

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Peter Lambert]

I've got a better idea.  Don't make any new products.  I do have to get a
KX2, could never sell my KX3 and she'll kill me for sure.  Thanks and
congrats, another work of art.

73's Peter VK4JD

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
Sent: Monday, 6 June 2016 4:42 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch screens, and he
is right, but I have never seen or heard of blind aircraft pilot so that
part of his comment is flawed.

>On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
>Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

>Well, touch screen UI have
>also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots 
>also use touch screen UI communication devices. If they are good enough 
>to be used on commercial aircraft and in military applications, then it
sure is good enough for ham radio.

>
>On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com>
wrote:
>
>Don,
>
>I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen capability the 
>manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize the error of 
>their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough capital to revert to 
>the original design and fire the person responsible for the change.
>
>On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
> Lynn,
> 
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
> released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
> really time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
> firmware grows to need them.
> 
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
> 
> 
>
>
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> donw...@embarqmail.com
> 
> 
>
>
> Elecraft mailing list
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> 
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> n...@n5ge.com
>
>
>
>Elecraft mailing list
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>jkra...@iafrica.com
>
>
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>je...@carolinaheli.com
ARS N5GE

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Amateur Radio Operator N5GE]

Below John says that airline and military pilots use touch screens,
and he is right, but I have never seen or heard of blind aircraft
pilot so that part of his comment is flawed.

>On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John  wrote:
>Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

>Well, touch screen UI have
>also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots also 
>use touch screen
>UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial 
>aircraft
>and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham radio.

>
>On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  wrote:
>
>Don,
>
>I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
>capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
>the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
>capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
>responsible for the change.
>
>On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
> Lynn,
> 
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
> released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
> really time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
> firmware grows to need them.
> 
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
> 
> 
>
>
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
> 
> 
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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ARS N5GE

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Bob Nielsen]

It's easy to clean a touchscreen with a microfiber cloth (and a very 
small amount of eyeglass cleaner or water if needed).


The touchscreen on my IC-7100 failed after nearly a year (Icom replaced 
a decoder board under warranty) but this is not a normal occurrence and 
the screen itself was not affected.


73,
Bob N7XY

On 6/5/16 10:32 PM, John wrote:

I have been using an IC-7300 with touchscreen for 2 months now. I have yet to 
wipe the screen, I see
no fingerprints. Billions of iPhones, tablets and GPS units use a touchscreen 
without complaint. Look,
I think it will be a long long time before Elecraft ever get to consider it, 
but I think it will be inevitable
one day. Contact me in 10 years time, and tell me ‘I told you so’, if it does 
not happen :-)

73
John




On 6 Jun 2016, at 4:50 AM, K5HM <k5hm@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a new car with Touchscreen controls.  When the engine is off, I see all 
the finger marks. Ugh.  No touchscreen for me.

73,
Ron, K5HM
k5hm@gmail.com
www.qrz.com/db/k5hm

Excelsior!

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry More
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:06 PM
To: John <jkra...@iafrica.com>; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Oh,, and I wanted to point out that if you are using a computer with CAT then 
most software packages allow  you to operate with keyboard shortcuts to QSY, 
tune up, tune down, change modes, filters..etc.. all up to your imagination 
depending on the software and your needs.
Jer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jerry Moore
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:05 PM
To: John; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning 
the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as 
an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, 
extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi).

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough?

On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart 
phones out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching 
for your keyboards to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. 
Well, touch screen UI have also moved over to commercial products, the military 
and airline pilots also use touch screen UI communication devices. If they are 
good enough to be used on commercial aircraft and in military applications, 
then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
cost enormously, resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good.
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
need more knobs or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been 
added……no problem with a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
buttons when features are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs 
have three functions, and to try and remember what each knobs second or third 
function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com> wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen capability the 
manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize the error of their ways.  
Hopfully they would still have enough capital to revert to the original design 
and fire the person responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for  blind 
operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios  with 
those blind operators particularly in mind.
A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future  
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things  on and 
off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally  released.

Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more  flexible 
than a silk-screened metal panel.

I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's  really time 
to lighten up, folks.

Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with 

Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John]

I have been using an IC-7300 with touchscreen for 2 months now. I have yet to 
wipe the screen, I see
no fingerprints. Billions of iPhones, tablets and GPS units use a touchscreen 
without complaint. Look,
I think it will be a long long time before Elecraft ever get to consider it, 
but I think it will be inevitable
one day. Contact me in 10 years time, and tell me ‘I told you so’, if it does 
not happen :-)

73
John




On 6 Jun 2016, at 4:50 AM, K5HM <k5hm@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a new car with Touchscreen controls.  When the engine is off, I see all 
the finger marks. Ugh.  No touchscreen for me. 

73,
Ron, K5HM
k5hm@gmail.com
www.qrz.com/db/k5hm

   Excelsior!

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry More
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:06 PM
To: John <jkra...@iafrica.com>; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Oh,, and I wanted to point out that if you are using a computer with CAT then 
most software packages allow  you to operate with keyboard shortcuts to QSY, 
tune up, tune down, change modes, filters..etc.. all up to your imagination 
depending on the software and your needs.
Jer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jerry Moore
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:05 PM
To: John; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning 
the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as 
an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, 
extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi). 

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough? 

On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart 
phones out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching 
for your keyboards to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. 
Well, touch screen UI have also moved over to commercial products, the military 
and airline pilots also use touch screen UI communication devices. If they are 
good enough to be used on commercial aircraft and in military applications, 
then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
cost enormously, resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good. 
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
need more knobs or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been 
added……no problem with a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
buttons when features are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs 
have three functions, and to try and remember what each knobs second or third 
function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com> wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen capability the 
manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize the error of their ways.  
Hopfully they would still have enough capital to revert to the original design 
and fire the person responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for  blind 
operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios  with 
those blind operators particularly in mind.
A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future  
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things  on and 
off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally  released.

Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more  flexible 
than a silk-screened metal panel.

I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's  really time 
to lighten up, folks.

Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of  "empty" 
buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the  firmware grows to 
need them.

On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the  touch 
screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch




Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/ma

Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

A key consideration in the K-POD design was to minimize hand movements when
working at a keyboard while contesting or chasing DX. The knob handles both
VFO controls and the OFS while you get to choose which 16 K3 macros you need
to launch with a tap or press on the K-POD switches. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 6:28 PM
To: Ron D'Eau Claire
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

 For contesters, K Pod vs. touchscreen is matter of thousands of repetitive
movements during a contest. And if one must move one's hands away from a
keyboard, what movement is the most accurate time after time, and is there a
resting spot for the base of the hand to support the weight of the arm so
that is not on the arm muscles the entire time.

There is a strip of desk between me and my left-handed trackball, my left
and right hand keyboard and right hand keyer paddle to rest wrist or hand so
my arms do not get so tired. I have arms on my chair which support my elbows
at desk height. That means going qso to qso without repetitive effort to
raise my arms. I can get to everything qso-to qso repetitive with horizontal
arc, supported side-to-side movement. The touch screen implementations I
have seen involve raising arms and free, unsupported touching well above the
desk surface. Hand and arm musculature must be accurate to accomplish tasks.

The KPod is possibly a replacement for the seven far right columns of keys
on my Logitech K750 solar wireless keyboard. That being the case, one of the
"mini" keyboards would do and the KPod fit in the vacated space.

I will be reading about the KPod carefully now, and thinking. It's tempting.

73, Guy K2AV 

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[a45wg]

Interesting set of topics -

I decided to go for the Elecraft route for the simple reason I hoped their 
superior RX capabilities would help me make more QSO’s. I have not been 
disappointed. 

I did not care about touch this or button that. A radio should primarily be for 
sending and receiving - what else is added is extra; 

73s to all

Tim - A45WG


__
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[K5HM]

I have a new car with Touchscreen controls.  When the engine is off, I see all 
the finger marks. Ugh.  No touchscreen for me. 

73,
Ron, K5HM
k5hm@gmail.com
www.qrz.com/db/k5hm

Excelsior!

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry More
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:06 PM
To: John <jkra...@iafrica.com>; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Oh,, and I wanted to point out that if you are using a computer with CAT then 
most software packages allow  you to operate with keyboard shortcuts to QSY, 
tune up, tune down, change modes, filters..etc.. all up to your imagination 
depending on the software and your needs.
Jer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jerry Moore
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:05 PM
To: John; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning 
the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as 
an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, 
extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi). 

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough? 

On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart 
phones out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching 
for your keyboards to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. 
Well, touch screen UI have also moved over to commercial products, the military 
and airline pilots also use touch screen UI communication devices. If they are 
good enough to be used on commercial aircraft and in military applications, 
then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
cost enormously, resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good. 
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
need more knobs or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been 
added……no problem with a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
buttons when features are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs 
have three functions, and to try and remember what each knobs second or third 
function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com> wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen capability the 
manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize the error of their ways.  
Hopfully they would still have enough capital to revert to the original design 
and fire the person responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
 Lynn,
 
 Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for  blind 
operators.
 Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios  with 
those blind operators particularly in mind.
 A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
 A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future  
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things  on and 
off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally  released.
 
 Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more  flexible 
than a silk-screened metal panel.
 
 I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's  really 
time to lighten up, folks.
 
 Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of  "empty" 
buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the  firmware grows to 
need them.
 
 On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
 Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the  touch 
screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
 
 


 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net  Please help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html  Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
 
 


 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net  Pl

Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Jerry More]

Oh,, and I wanted to point out that if you are using a computer with CAT then 
most software packages allow  you to operate with keyboard shortcuts to QSY, 
tune up, tune down, change modes, filters..etc.. all up to your imagination 
depending on the software and your needs.
Jer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jerry Moore
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:05 PM
To: John; n...@n5ge.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning 
the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as 
an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, 
extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi). 

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough? 

On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <jkra...@iafrica.com> wrote:
Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart 
phones
out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching for 
your keyboards
to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. Well, touch screen 
UI have
also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots also 
use touch screen
UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial 
aircraft
and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
cost enormously,
resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good. 
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
need more knobs 
or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been added……no problem with 
a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
buttons when features
are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs have three functions, 
and to try and
remember what each knobs second or third function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <n...@n5ge.com> wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
 Lynn,
 
 Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
 blind operators.
 Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
 with those blind operators particularly in mind.
 A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
 A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
 upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
 on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
 released.
 
 Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
 flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
 
 I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
 really time to lighten up, folks.
 
 Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
 "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
 firmware grows to need them.
 
 On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
 Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
 touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
 
 


 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
 
 


 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to n...@n5ge.com



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Message delivered to jkra...@iafrica.com


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

 For contesters, K Pod vs. touchscreen is matter of thousands of repetitive
movements during a contest. And if one must move one's hands away from a
keyboard, what movement is the most accurate time after time, and is there
a resting spot for the base of the hand to support the weight of the arm so
that is not on the arm muscles the entire time.

There is a strip of desk between me and my left-handed trackball, my left
and right hand keyboard and right hand keyer paddle to rest wrist or hand
so my arms do not get so tired. I have arms on my chair which support my
elbows at desk height. That means going qso to qso without repetitive
effort to raise my arms. I can get to everything qso-to qso repetitive with
horizontal arc, supported side-to-side movement. The touch screen
implementations I have seen involve raising arms and free, unsupported
touching well above the desk surface. Hand and arm musculature must be
accurate to accomplish tasks.

The KPod is possibly a replacement for the seven far right columns of keys
on my Logitech K750 solar wireless keyboard. That being the case, one of
the "mini" keyboards would do and the KPod fit in the vacated space.

I will be reading about the KPod carefully now, and thinking. It's tempting.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:

> Looking at the K-POD functionality, it seems to me that the future is
> modular.
>
> Already rigs like the K3 have an RF section, a control section, a signal
> processing section and an I/O section that are largely on separate boards
> in separate parts of the rig. And then there is the display section which
> is a separate box such as the P3, PX3 or even a PC.
>
> Except for the extremely compact rigs, it seems to me the future will
> bring increased options that can be plugged into each other according to
> the operator's interests and needs. Even highly compact rigs may find
> features such as frequency, spectrum, settings and other such items on
> wearable displays like glasses or on a Braille readout. Couple in an earwig
> mic/headphone and a smartphone size device that handles logging and I can
> imagine someone sitting on a park bench staring off into space saying "CQ
> Contest, CQ Contest, CQ Contes...".
>
> A few years ago such a scene would have people calling the guys with the
> funny white jackets but today I doubt if most people would even notice.
>
> (BTW, sri about the K-NOB reference. That somehow slipped off of my
> fingers unnoticed until Dick caught it. The little box does have a big
> knob!)
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Message delivered to k2av@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John Pitz]

Thus is born the KXi


On Sun, 2016-06-05 at 11:48 -0700, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Good discussion, Tony.
> 
> Re "If my fantasy radio was developed it would be 
> quantum based system that would allow you call 
> through other dimensions over vast distances with 
> out any propagation delay." I'd settle for an 
> advancement which let me work you from California 
> running 5 Watts to a one meter indoor antenna and 
> no counterpoise -- during the low part of the 
> sunspot cycle :-)
> 
> 73, Phil W7OX
> 
> On 6/5/16 11:28 AM, Tony G6GLP wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > I thought I might put my oar in on this; New 
> > products need a market is true and trying to 
> > second guess it is another story.
> >
> > How would I go about developing a new product? I 
> > believe that we need to see a gap in the market 
> > since we are not going to create a new market 
> > like texting. The size of the addressable 
> > customer base needs to be large enough to 
> > support the development cost. One thing that 
> > many people see as improvement is the touch 
> > screen, while I support development in this area 
> > it is not core functionality to our hobby (can I 
> > see the flack coming on that?). The KX2 and 
> > K-POD are good examples of pushing the new 
> > product while building on current development ( 
> > no I dont have an inside view of the products 
> > but it stands to reason). Who was it that said 
> > there are many Japanese VHF txcvrs? The latest 
> > trend is into the digital coms so something in 
> > that area maybe the next thing but I would 
> > recommend an open source approach to the digital 
> > coms to get others helping with the future 
> > development of repeater type multi channel things.
> > I would personally be more interested in an 
> > integrated larger HF amp or even a combiner to 
> > use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
> > If my fantasy radio was developed it would be 
> > quantum based system that would allow you call 
> > through other dimensions over vast distances 
> > with out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few 
> > thousand years :-)
> >
> > 73 de Tony G6GLP
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Gary]

Ken,
Nope, me neither.
I am portabe 24/7, so is my not so smart screen phone, when in daylight the 
touch screen is useless.
The sunlight shines on my k3 and I don't have any issue so using a touch screen 
would be an order of magnitude I ain't gonna deal with.
Maybe a K3-TS?...a remote touch screen app with full k3 control?
It's just not gonna happen in my case.
My K3 is approaching adolescence, gee what a wonderful time we are still having 
daily on air.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Ken G Kopp" <kengk...@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎6/‎06/‎2016 8:33 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

I'll not be buying a radio with any form of "touch screen" ... ain't gonna
happen.  (:-))

73

K0PP
On Jun 5, 2016 13:16, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <k...@coldrockshotbrooms.com>
wrote:

> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really
> time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty"
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows
> to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch
>> screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Alan Geller via Elecraft]

Knobs and and switches provide the illusion of control…and that my friends, is 
what life is all about 8^)  Elecraft
does a great job of giving us what we need while giving us what we want….which 
is the exception the Rolling
Stones would accept...

Alan/K6ADG
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Looking at the K-POD functionality, it seems to me that the future is modular. 

Already rigs like the K3 have an RF section, a control section, a signal 
processing section and an I/O section that are largely on separate boards in 
separate parts of the rig. And then there is the display section which is a 
separate box such as the P3, PX3 or even a PC. 

Except for the extremely compact rigs, it seems to me the future will bring 
increased options that can be plugged into each other according to the 
operator's interests and needs. Even highly compact rigs may find features such 
as frequency, spectrum, settings and other such items on wearable displays like 
glasses or on a Braille readout. Couple in an earwig mic/headphone and a 
smartphone size device that handles logging and I can imagine someone sitting 
on a park bench staring off into space saying "CQ Contest, CQ Contest, CQ 
Contes...". 

A few years ago such a scene would have people calling the guys with the funny 
white jackets but today I doubt if most people would even notice.  

(BTW, sri about the K-NOB reference. That somehow slipped off of my fingers 
unnoticed until Dick caught it. The little box does have a big knob!)

73, Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Buddy Brannan]

Of course, touch screens can be made to work, witness the iThingies. But that's 
an awful lot of complexity. Given that the available resources in current 
generation Elecraft gear can't even be stretched to include spoken feedback 
(this is not a criticism, mind you, just a statement of fact), it seems 
unlikely that such resources would be available just by the addition of a touch 
screen. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> An idea just off the top of my head: Put a physical grid over the touch 
> screen so the blind OP can find the buttons. A grid of 2mm x 2mm bars 
> separated into 15-20mm areas might work well. Have the radio speak the status 
> of the button when it is pressed. If you have two-level press sensitivity, 
> like the new Apple MacBooks, then you can use one level as a request to 
> report the status and the other as a request to change the status (press the 
> button). Rectangular areas could be used as sliders for adjustments etc. 
> (Note that for blind usage, you don't need a screen. A touch pad alone will 
> do.
> 
> One of the great things about amateur radio is that people with significant 
> handicaps can still play. One of the board members of my club is blind. Other 
> members bring him to meetings, and it is always nice to hear his voice on the 
> air. People who can't hear can still be expert digital operators. etc.
> 
> Elecraft is to be applauded for their commitment to accessibility.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 6/5/16 at 12:37 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:
> 
>> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for blind 
>> operators.
>> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios with 
>> those blind operators particularly in mind.
> ---
> Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  |is there are so many to choose| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, CA 95032
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Ken G Kopp]

I'll not be buying a radio with any form of "touch screen" ... ain't gonna
happen.  (:-))

73

K0PP
On Jun 5, 2016 13:16, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" 
wrote:

> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really
> time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty"
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows
> to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch
>> screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[EricJ]

It's always interesting to hear list members' idea of new amateur radio 
products. I get the idea that the ham market is driven by the needs of 
megabuck contesters and DX'ers, many of whom are now legally 
incorporated entities! I'm obviously not in tune with an amateur market 
that sees a combiner for three $2000+ linears as a viable product. Maybe 
the ham market has always been driven by these folks, the race car 
drivers in our sport with factory sponsorship, whose wants and needs 
then trickle down to the rest of us as rear view mirrors and racing 
stripes for our family SUV.


I have no advice for Elecraft which already produces things that are 
beyond my needs in this hobby. But consider this. I worked the Alabama 
QSO Party this weekend just for fun.  I did all my tuning/searching with 
my Drake 2B, then "pounced" (a word that is hyperbole for what I do in a 
contest) with the K2/100. There was nothing I could hear on the K2 that 
I couldn't hear on the 2B. In fact, I was only interested in mobiles 
running AL counties, the weaker stations in the contest.


Granted this 50 year old radio suffers a number of inadequacies that I 
would no longer stand for, however, it is still capable of performing 
the duties that MOST actual everyday hams require of a receiver. It 
would not make it through the first lap as a race car, but it still does 
a remarkable job as a daily ride. And, the Drake 2B is still more FUN. 
It wouldn't be enhanced with a touch screen instead of knobs/switches 
and neither would anything else meant for every day hamming.


Eric

KE6US


On 6/5/2016 12:27 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

Lighten up, you say? I don't know...I sort of like having radios I can actually 
use. Unless said touch screen will also come with some sort of spoken 
interface, (they haven't, so far), I guess eventually I get to look for a new 
hobby if that's where we're all going. And really, with the aging ham 
population and the sight loss that sometimes comes with said aging population, 
guess a lot of those guys are gonna be screwed, too. Sounds like a great idea 
to me.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Bill Frantz]

An idea just off the top of my head: Put a physical grid over 
the touch screen so the blind OP can find the buttons. A grid of 
2mm x 2mm bars separated into 15-20mm areas might work well. 
Have the radio speak the status of the button when it is 
pressed. If you have two-level press sensitivity, like the new 
Apple MacBooks, then you can use one level as a request to 
report the status and the other as a request to change the 
status (press the button). Rectangular areas could be used as 
sliders for adjustments etc. (Note that for blind usage, you 
don't need a screen. A touch pad alone will do.


One of the great things about amateur radio is that people with 
significant handicaps can still play. One of the board members 
of my club is blind. Other members bring him to meetings, and it 
is always nice to hear his voice on the air. People who can't 
hear can still be expert digital operators. etc.


Elecraft is to be applauded for their commitment to accessibility.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/5/16 at 12:37 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:


Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for blind 
operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their 
radios with those blind operators particularly in mind.

---
Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |is there are so many to choose| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Jerry Moore]

Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little 
value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning 
the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as 
an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, 
extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi). 

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that 
the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough? 


On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John  wrote:
>Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.
>
>Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch
>screen smart phones
>out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching
>for your keyboards
>to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. Well, touch
>screen UI have
>also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots
>also use touch screen
>UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on
>commercial aircraft
>and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham
>radio.
>Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have
>dropped the cost enormously,
>resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good. 
>Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If
>you need more knobs 
>or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been added……no
>problem with a touch screen.
>Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the
>screen.
>The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs
>and buttons when features
>are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs have three
>functions, and to try and
>remember what each knobs second or third function does, becomes
>difficult.
>
>Food for thought :-)
>
>73
>John
>
>
>
>
>On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE 
>wrote:
>
>Don,
>
>I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
>capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
>the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
>capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
>responsible for the change.
>
>On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> Lynn,
>> 
>> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
>> blind operators.
>> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their
>radios 
>> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
>>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>
>>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
>>> released.
>>> 
>>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
>>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>> 
>>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
>>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>> 
>>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
>>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>
>>> firmware grows to need them.
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
 Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
 touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[John]

Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart 
phones
out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching for 
your keyboards
to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. Well, touch screen 
UI have
also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots also 
use touch screen
UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial 
aircraft
and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the 
cost enormously,
resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good. 
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you 
need more knobs 
or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been added……no problem with 
a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and 
buttons when features
are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs have three functions, 
and to try and
remember what each knobs second or third function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:

> Lynn,
> 
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
>> released.
>> 
>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>> 
>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>> 
>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
>> firmware grows to need them.
>> 
>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>> 
>> 
>> __
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Jim Finan]

I made my annual pilgrimage to the nearest Ham store (3 hours drive) and saw a 
bunch of very pretty equipment. 

However, I'm not going to ditch my Elecraft gear any time soon. 

Touchscreens have some advantages, but there are a number of trade-offs. 
Reliability (I remember problems with the FTDX5000 displays), ruggedness ‎, 
etc. Also seem to take more power to run the bells and whistles. 

There could be a couple of solutions to their use by sight-impaired Hams‎. One 
would be voice recognition software. Like Siri or Cortana - how about 'Ellie'?

Development costs would be pretty steep and we all know how wonderful the voice 
recognition software can be...

Another idea would be to use a 'Super' K-pod/K-nob and/or something like the 
Genovation keyboards (mentioned recently on the reflector). That would be a 
much more simple solution. It could have custom keycaps with Braille characters 
on them. 

Not too many, but maybe 12-24? That interface could be used on multiple radios 
(a bunch of speculation about that regarding the K-pod recently)‎. USB or 
something else to plug in. I'm not wild about wireless as that's one more 
battery to deal with. 

BTW, Touchscreens don't necessarily need to be proprietary. I have a couple 
that are generic with my Beaglebone that seem to work ok‎. Nice toy but not 
necessary. 

Not sure how practical these ideas are...

73,

Jim
Jim Finan
AB4AC 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  Original Message  
From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 3:39 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Reply To: donw...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
with those blind operators particularly in mind.
A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
> released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
> really time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
> firmware grows to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Kevin Stover]

I can speak directly to that Don.

Three years ago I had and accident and detached both retinas.
Six eye surgeries later and I am 20/80 in the left eye and 20/50-40 
(depending on the day) in the right. I am legally blind. None of that is 
reversible with anything you can do at the front of the eye. The damage 
was in the back.
I can't use my K2/100 because it needs an alignment that I don't think I 
can see well enough to pull off. I was trying to add fixed audio out to 
the rig when I had my accident. I have one of the last NØSS boards for 
such somewhere.


Ham Radio moving to a GUI interface would be the end of my Ham Radio hobby.
I work with the aid of some very expensive gadgets and software designed 
to magnify the screen.
Zoomtext from AI Squared has been a real blessing. The Linux community 
on the other hand has been a major disappointment. Lets just say 
accessibility is not on the Linux fan boy top ten list of improvements. 
We need yet another scripting language, chat client, window manager, 
etc Accessibility just isn't sexy or a good resume fluffer.


The only way I use a P3 or PX3 is the SVGA card in the P3 and a 24" 
monitor, and the I/Q output into a laptop/sound card running NaP3 from 
the PX3.


I applaud Elecraft for embracing the accessibility mantel hope to high 
heck they don't accede to the noisy minority.


On 6/5/2016 2:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
with those blind operators particularly in mind.

A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
released.


Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.


I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
really time to lighten up, folks.


Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
"empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
firmware grows to need them.


On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch



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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Buddy Brannan]

Only if it's Elecraft. Clearly this isn't the case with Yaecomwoodlincotec. 
Well, at least a couple of those, anyway. 

--
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Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
> capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
> the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
> capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
> responsible for the change.
> 
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
> 
>> Lynn,
>> 
>> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
>> blind operators.
>> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
>> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
>>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
>>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
>>> released.
>>> 
>>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
>>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>> 
>>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
>>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>> 
>>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
>>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
>>> firmware grows to need them.
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
 Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
 touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __
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>>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Amateur Radio Operator N5GE]

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:

>Lynn,
>
>Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
>blind operators.
>Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
>with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
>> released.
>>
>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>
>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>
>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
>> firmware grows to need them.
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>>
>> __
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Don Wilhelm]

Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for 
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios 
with those blind operators particularly in mind.

A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things 
on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally 
released.


Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.


I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
really time to lighten up, folks.


Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
"empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
firmware grows to need them.


On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the 
touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch



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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Josh]

Why pay for an expensive, low volume touch screen when most of us carry very 
nice ones with us?

Write an iOS and/or Android app radio interface. You could accomplish most of 
this with the existing hardware with the addition of a smart dongle that 
includes RS232 and BLE connectivity. 

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device (& K3 interface)

> On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
>  wrote:
> 
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and 
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible 
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really 
> time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty" 
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows 
> to need them.
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Buddy Brannan]

Lighten up, you say? I don't know...I sort of like having radios I can actually 
use. Unless said touch screen will also come with some sort of spoken 
interface, (they haven't, so far), I guess eventually I get to look for a new 
hobby if that's where we're all going. And really, with the aging ham 
population and the sight loss that sometimes comes with said aging population, 
guess a lot of those guys are gonna be screwed, too. Sounds like a great idea 
to me. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
>  wrote:
> 
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and 
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
> 
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible 
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
> 
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really 
> time to lighten up, folks.
> 
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty" 
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows 
> to need them.
> 
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch 
>> screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future 
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on 
and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.


Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more 
flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.


I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's 
really time to lighten up, folks.


Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of 
"empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the 
firmware grows to need them.


On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch screen 
GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch



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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Rick WA6NHC]

But if it's truly quantum, which reality YOU would be working whom?


On 6/5/2016 11:48 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

Good discussion, Tony.

Re "If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system 
that would allow you call through other dimensions over vast distances 
with out any propagation delay." I'd settle for an advancement which 
let me work you from California running 5 Watts to a one meter indoor 
antenna and no counterpoise -- during the low part of the sunspot 
cycle :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 6/5/16 11:28 AM, Tony G6GLP wrote:

Hi All,
I thought I might put my oar in on this; New products need a market 
is true and trying to second guess it is another story.


How would I go about developing a new product? I believe that we need 
to see a gap in the market since we are not going to create a new 
market like texting. The size of the addressable customer base needs 
to be large enough to support the development cost. One thing that 
many people see as improvement is the touch screen, while I support 
development in this area it is not core functionality to our hobby 
(can I see the flack coming on that?). The KX2 and K-POD are good 
examples of pushing the new product while building on current 
development ( no I dont have an inside view of the products but it 
stands to reason). Who was it that said there are many Japanese VHF 
txcvrs? The latest trend is into the digital coms so something in 
that area maybe the next thing but I would recommend an open source 
approach to the digital coms to get others helping with the future 
development of repeater type multi channel things.
I would personally be more interested in an integrated larger HF amp 
or even a combiner to use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system 
that would allow you call through other dimensions over vast 
distances with out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few thousand 
years :-)


73 de Tony G6GLP


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Phil Wheeler]

Good discussion, Tony.

Re "If my fantasy radio was developed it would be 
quantum based system that would allow you call 
through other dimensions over vast distances with 
out any propagation delay." I'd settle for an 
advancement which let me work you from California 
running 5 Watts to a one meter indoor antenna and 
no counterpoise -- during the low part of the 
sunspot cycle :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 6/5/16 11:28 AM, Tony G6GLP wrote:

Hi All,
I thought I might put my oar in on this; New 
products need a market is true and trying to 
second guess it is another story.


How would I go about developing a new product? I 
believe that we need to see a gap in the market 
since we are not going to create a new market 
like texting. The size of the addressable 
customer base needs to be large enough to 
support the development cost. One thing that 
many people see as improvement is the touch 
screen, while I support development in this area 
it is not core functionality to our hobby (can I 
see the flack coming on that?). The KX2 and 
K-POD are good examples of pushing the new 
product while building on current development ( 
no I dont have an inside view of the products 
but it stands to reason). Who was it that said 
there are many Japanese VHF txcvrs? The latest 
trend is into the digital coms so something in 
that area maybe the next thing but I would 
recommend an open source approach to the digital 
coms to get others helping with the future 
development of repeater type multi channel things.
I would personally be more interested in an 
integrated larger HF amp or even a combiner to 
use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
If my fantasy radio was developed it would be 
quantum based system that would allow you call 
through other dimensions over vast distances 
with out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few 
thousand years :-)


73 de Tony G6GLP


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Tony G6GLP]

Hi All,
I thought I might put my oar in on this; New products need a market is 
true and trying to second guess it is another story.


How would I go about developing a new product? I believe that we need to 
see a gap in the market since we are not going to create a new market 
like texting. The size of the addressable customer base needs to be 
large enough to support the development cost. One thing that many people 
see as improvement is the touch screen, while I support development in 
this area it is not core functionality to our hobby (can I see the flack 
coming on that?). The KX2 and K-POD are good examples of pushing the new 
product while building on current development ( no I dont have an inside 
view of the products but it stands to reason). Who was it that said 
there are many Japanese VHF txcvrs? The latest trend is into the digital 
coms so something in that area maybe the next thing but I would 
recommend an open source approach to the digital coms to get others 
helping with the future development of repeater type multi channel things.
I would personally be more interested in an integrated larger HF amp or 
even a combiner to use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system that 
would allow you call through other dimensions over vast distances with 
out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few thousand years :-)


73 de Tony G6GLP
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Buddy Brannan]

Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch screen 
GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch screen GUI? If that's what counts as 
innovative, hey, where'd I put my club? Maybe behind that rock in my cave. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:
> 
> Gee,
> 
> So far Elecraft has done a good job of providing new products with great 
> support for which there is an ample mainstream market -- a good business 
> model.  And focusing on products for which there is a good market is 
> important.
> 
> Amateur radio video: How big would that market be?  Ditto for VHF/UHF 
> exclusive transceiver, though that might go further than your video 
> suggestion.
> 
> And I believe the 1.5 kW amp/tuner topic was discussed extensively and 
> conclusively here at some time in the past 12 months.
> 
> Sure, new products are always welcome. But companies have failed by producing 
> new products for which no market materializes. And, first and foremost, I 
> want Elecraft to be around for another 17 years!
> 
> 73, Phil W7OX
> 
> On 6/5/16 9:47 AM, Gee wrote:
>> We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the 
>> remake of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see 
>> something really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been 
>> exhausted. Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and 
>> tuner, new modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company 
>> could be even greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not 
>> variations on the same thing.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Phil Wheeler]

Gee,

So far Elecraft has done a good job of providing 
new products with great support for which there is 
an ample mainstream market -- a good business 
model.  And focusing on products for which there 
is a good market is important.


Amateur radio video: How big would that market 
be?  Ditto for VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 
though that might go further than your video 
suggestion.


And I believe the 1.5 kW amp/tuner topic was 
discussed extensively and conclusively here at 
some time in the past 12 months.


Sure, new products are always welcome. But 
companies have failed by producing new products 
for which no market materializes. And, first and 
foremost, I want Elecraft to be around for another 
17 years!


73, Phil W7OX

On 6/5/16 9:47 AM, Gee wrote:

We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake 
of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really 
new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch 
screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is 
amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by 
expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing.

Sent from my iPad


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Re: [Elecraft] New products

[Buddy Brannan]

With the K3s, point taken. It's an upgraded K3. With the KX2, it's not a 
replacement for the KX3 in the same way the K3s was a replacement for the K3. 
So I'm thinking your assessment isn't exactly fair. 

Pass the Flavor-Aide, please. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Gee  wrote:
> 
> We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake 
> of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something 
> really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. 
> Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new 
> modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even 
> greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the 
> same thing. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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[Elecraft] New products

[Gee]

We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake 
of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really 
new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch 
screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is 
amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by 
expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing. 

Sent from my iPad
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[Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[Richard Newstead]

Palm Radio has introduced a couple of new accessories. The Pico Plate is a
self adhesive magnetic base for the Pico Paddle that makes mounting the
paddle on a radio or desk easy. They have also introduced a magnetic side
panel for the KX3 that makes mounting magnetic paddles simple.

See them both here:

http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/palm-radio/

73 Richard G3CWI
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Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[Wayne Burdick]

It's not clear from the photos whether the new right-side accessories are 
compatible with the use of a 2-meter antenna plugged into the SMA connector.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Dec 12, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Richard Newstead rich...@sotabeams.co.uk wrote:

 Palm Radio has introduced a couple of new accessories. The Pico Plate is a
 self adhesive magnetic base for the Pico Paddle that makes mounting the
 paddle on a radio or desk easy. They have also introduced a magnetic side
 panel for the KX3 that makes mounting magnetic paddles simple.
 
 See them both here:
 
 http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/palm-radio/
 
 73 Richard G3CWI
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Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[EricJ]

Either way, it would be an easy matter to neatly cut a strip of thin 
steel to match the Palm Paddle and stick it in place where ever you want 
with double sticky cellophane tape. When you no longer want it, soak it 
off with Goo Gone or similar.


Hobby stores carry KS Metal products including small sheets of 0.008 
or 0.013 tinned carbon steel. Easy to paint it to match too.


That would work with any radio without needing a whole new sideplate.

Eric
KE6US

On 12/12/2013 8:51 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

It's not clear from the photos whether the new right-side accessories are 
compatible with the use of a 2-meter antenna plugged into the SMA connector.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Dec 12, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Richard Newstead rich...@sotabeams.co.uk wrote:


Palm Radio has introduced a couple of new accessories. The Pico Plate is a
self adhesive magnetic base for the Pico Paddle that makes mounting the
paddle on a radio or desk easy. They have also introduced a magnetic side
panel for the KX3 that makes mounting magnetic paddles simple.

See them both here:

http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/palm-radio/

73 Richard G3CWI
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Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[David Cutter]

There is a self-adhesive plastic plate already available for just that 
purpose available from Palm.  I tried one on my KX1.


David
G3UNA

- Original Message - 
From: EricJ eric_c...@hotmail.com

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio


Either way, it would be an easy matter to neatly cut a strip of thin steel 
to match the Palm Paddle and stick it in place where ever you want with 
double sticky cellophane tape. When you no longer want it, soak it off 
with Goo Gone or similar.


Hobby stores carry KS Metal products including small sheets of 0.008 or 
0.013 tinned carbon steel. Easy to paint it to match too.


That would work with any radio without needing a whole new sideplate.

Eric
KE6US

On 12/12/2013 8:51 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
It's not clear from the photos whether the new right-side accessories are 
compatible with the use of a 2-meter antenna plugged into the SMA 
connector.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Dec 12, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Richard Newstead rich...@sotabeams.co.uk 
wrote:


Palm Radio has introduced a couple of new accessories. The Pico Plate is 
a

self adhesive magnetic base for the Pico Paddle that makes mounting the
paddle on a radio or desk easy. They have also introduced a magnetic 
side

panel for the KX3 that makes mounting magnetic paddles simple.

See them both here:

http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/palm-radio/

73 Richard G3CWI
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---
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is active.
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Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[Dave]

Like anything, you weigh up the benefits against the costs or your ability
to 'do' something else.

Personally, as a left handed keyer, the Palm radio side unit isn't a great
help, neither is the thin strip of metal and tape idea, as I'd need them on
the side of the radio with all of the sockets... That and the fact that I
already have fitted the 'Side KX' panels, so any alternative steel unit
wouldn't be of use to me.

Some people can and do, others prefer to let an organisation like Palm Radio 
do

something for them.

I've bought antennas and poles from Richard at SOTA, they work well and I've
had a lot of use out of them.  He's providing other products and services 
that might be of use to other people.  Just because some of us don't want or 
need them doesn't mean that they wont be attractive to other people with 
different wants or needs.


Dave (G0DJA)


- Original Message - 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio



Either way, it would be an easy matter to neatly cut a strip of thin steel
to match the Palm Paddle and stick it in place where ever you want with
double sticky cellophane tape. When you no longer want it, soak it off
with Goo Gone or similar.

Hobby stores carry KS Metal products including small sheets of 0.008 or
0.013 tinned carbon steel. Easy to paint it to match too.

That would work with any radio without needing a whole new sideplate.

://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio

[EricJ]

I didn't say anything against Richard, nor did I intend to. It is up to 
his potential customers to decide the personal utility they will gain 
from them.


I only offered an obvious (turns out it was so obvious Palm had already 
done it) solution to mounting a magnetic paddle. Frankly, replacing an 
entire radio side cover with a steel replica would never have occured to 
me as a solution, butI'm not in the accessories business.


Eric
KE6US

On 12/12/2013 2:31 PM, Dave wrote:
Like anything, you weigh up the benefits against the costs or your 
ability

to 'do' something else.

Personally, as a left handed keyer, the Palm radio side unit isn't a 
great
help, neither is the thin strip of metal and tape idea, as I'd need 
them on

the side of the radio with all of the sockets... That and the fact that I
already have fitted the 'Side KX' panels, so any alternative steel unit
wouldn't be of use to me.

Some people can and do, others prefer to let an organisation like Palm 
Radio do

something for them.

I've bought antennas and poles from Richard at SOTA, they work well 
and I've
had a lot of use out of them.  He's providing other products and 
services that might be of use to other people.  Just because some of 
us don't want or need them doesn't mean that they wont be attractive 
to other people with different wants or needs.


Dave (G0DJA)


- Original Message - Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products from Palm Radio


Either way, it would be an easy matter to neatly cut a strip of thin 
steel

to match the Palm Paddle and stick it in place where ever you want with
double sticky cellophane tape. When you no longer want it, soak it off
with Goo Gone or similar.

Hobby stores carry KS Metal products including small sheets of 
0.008 or

0.013 tinned carbon steel. Easy to paint it to match too.

That would work with any radio without needing a whole new sideplate.

://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: [Elecraft] New Products

[Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU]

Tom Fitzgerald-2 wrote:
 
 As it turned out, I'm glad that I put off ordering my K3 #3494 because of
 hardware mods etc.
  ...
 73, Tom kd0bcf.

Tom, I know it was a minor point in your message, but I wanted to say I have
K3 #51 and I've spent a minimal amount of time and money keeping it up to
date, and I've done them all.

Leigh/WA5ZNU
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Re: [Elecraft] New Products

[Alan Bloom]

I agree.  I think I've done all the Elecraft-recommended mods for my K3
S/N 847:

AF upgrade (LINE OUT  speaker amp), AF Amp output, Synthesizer ALC,
Front-panel mic circuit, Rear-panel RF filtering, IF output buffer gain,
KPA3 12V sense, front-end protection, and VFO tuning noise.

That looks like a big list, but all of the mods are easy to do and free
or low cost.  The only mods I did that cost significant money are the
KIO3 Remote I/O upgrade ($20) and DSP board upgrade ($70), but those are
optional.  I just did them just so I would be able to say that my K3 is
totally up to date - they really are not necessary at all.

The only expensive ($50) upgrade that would not be optional is the
KXV3A, which is necessary if I ever decide to get the K144XV.  

Al N1AL


On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 13:54 -0800, Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote:
 
 Tom Fitzgerald-2 wrote:
  
  As it turned out, I'm glad that I put off ordering my K3 #3494 because of
  hardware mods etc.
   ...
  73, Tom kd0bcf.
 
 Tom, I know it was a minor point in your message, but I wanted to say I have
 K3 #51 and I've spent a minimal amount of time and money keeping it up to
 date, and I've done them all.
 
 Leigh/WA5ZNU


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[Elecraft] New Products

[Tom Fitzgerald]

I think Elecraft would be making a big mistake by going into the amp business 
anytime soon. I have a better idea. How about continuing to refine the K3 and 
work on getting the P3 Panadapter out. I have been waiting for months to order 
a P3. First it was going to be out by the end of 09 and then just after the 
first of the year. We are now halfway through Feb and I still don't know how 
much it is going to be or when I will be able to get my hands on one. I hope 
getting a P3 won't be like getting a K3 when they were first announced. I'm 
talking about placing an order and getting it 6-12 months down the road. That 
deal made me put off buying a K3 for more than a year, almost two years. I 
instead bought a IC756P3 which I still have and love. As it turned out, I'm 
glad that I put off ordering my K3 #3494 because of hardware mods etc. I do 
love my K3 but I wish everyone would let the Elecraft team finish what they 
started before they bombard them with all of
 these brilliant ideas. My restored and updated Drake L-4b  my Ameritron 
Al-80B both work great with my K3. There are many great amps on the market to 
choose from and how much demand could there be for an amp that cost 10k or 
more??? Very little IMO. By the way, this economy is going to be in the toliet 
for a long time...food for thought. I'm not a doom and gloomer, just realistic. 
73, Tom kd0bcf.


  
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[Elecraft] Elecraft new products!?!?!?

[K3JPS]

Per Wayne's email:

 See you at Dayton :)

 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/W2%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf


Oh my God.

Where do I sign up?  How much? And when will they be available to the rest
of us folks not going to Dayton?

I've been in DIRE need of an accurate wattmeter that will work with 2k
linears.  The fact that this has an amplifier cutoff relay is fantastic.
Also, that 2m board looks really nice.  Can't wait for the pricing.

73 de James K3JPS/2
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft new products!?!?!?

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

I really want more details on the 2M board...

will open up a whole new world!



K3JPS wrote:
 
 Per Wayne's email:
 
 See you at Dayton :)

 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/W2%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
 
 
 Oh my God.
 
 Where do I sign up?  How much? And when will they be available to the rest
 of us folks not going to Dayton?
 
 I've been in DIRE need of an accurate wattmeter that will work with 2k
 linears.  The fact that this has an amplifier cutoff relay is fantastic.
 Also, that 2m board looks really nice.  Can't wait for the pricing.
 
 73 de James K3JPS/2
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-
Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3#1875
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft new products!?!?!?

[Terry Dunlap]

Yeah and since it's internal to the K3 my wife can't accuse me of buying 
a new radio! :-)

73 de Terry KK6T
K3 #2965

Julius Fazekas n2wn wrote:
 I really want more details on the 2M board...

 will open up a whole new world!



 K3JPS wrote:
   
 Per Wayne's email:

 
 See you at Dayton :)

 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/W2%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf

 http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
   
 Oh my God.

 Where do I sign up?  How much? And when will they be available to the rest
 of us folks not going to Dayton?

 I've been in DIRE need of an accurate wattmeter that will work with 2k
 linears.  The fact that this has an amplifier cutoff relay is fantastic.
 Also, that 2m board looks really nice.  Can't wait for the pricing.

 73 de James K3JPS/2
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 -
 Julius Fazekas
 N2WN

 Tennessee Contest Group
 http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

 Tennessee QSO Party
 http://www.tnqp.org/

 Elecraft K2/100 #4455
 Elecraft K3/100 #366
 Elecraft K3#1875
   
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft new products!?!?!?

[pd0psb]

Next will be an internal espresso machine ;-)
2m is is a great addition to K3!
(pse don't forget the European freq raster)
Can't wait!

73
Paul
PD0PSB




I really want more details on the 2M board...
will open up a whole new world!

-- 
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http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-new-products%21-%21-%21--tp2885721p2886262.html
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