Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
When I was changing the bulbs out I took the opportunity to remove all
dimmers, never really used them, and a touch lamp the wife hated (large
blessing on me).
The wife has been looking at touch faucets for the sink. They've got to
be an RFI nightmare. I said NO. Plumber makes enough the way it is. Now
you have to find one that can wire the faucet too. One step too far.
The wife's quilting machine is next. it's going to get the K9YC treatment.
On 10/24/2017 7:55 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
The only time I've noticed RFI issues from CFL or LED bulbs is when they
are being excited by RF. I've measured 3 or 4 different ones of
different brands and wattage ratings. This was done using a fixture
where by the bulb was mounted on a suitable surface in a socket with the
transmit antenna {dual band VHF/UHF} some 6 ft away from the lamp and
the receive antenna {connected to a spectrum analyzer with a similar
dual band VHF/UHF antenna}, about 6 ft from the lamp. In all cases no
noise above background noise was observed. When the transmitter was
activated, the spikes of noise appeared. With the transmitter off, the
spikes again were not present. Not a real analytical or scientific
method but some degree of indication that some are better than others,
some are worse than others.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163
--
R. Kevin StoverAC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Yes, exactly my point. Although one may find the local AM or FM station is "exciting" these lamps, be they CFL or LED. They may, to some extent, generate the crap we hear. For us hams, when we transmit the noise may be produced but is not of concern in as much as they are quiet when we receive. But as Jim, K9YC says, this may happen when a nearby transmitter is active, the nearby receiver is plagued with noise. Clearly the CFL devices I used for testing did produce many more and higher level harmonics than the LED devices. I did not have a large sample of lamps, but the ones used, did show issues with the LED units showing less than CFL's. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 10/24/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/24/2017 5:55 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: When the transmitter was activated, the spikes of noise appeared. With the transmitter off, the spikes again were not present. Not a real analytical or scientific method but some degree of indication that some are better than others, some are worse than others. Sounds like classic received and re-radiated intermod, Bob. W3LPL has chased this down, and I've observed it in our CW contesting trailer. Set up in the middle of nowhere, no issues with transmitter harmonics or intermod. Set up anywhere around civilization, strong harmonics and intermod. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/24/2017 5:55 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: When the transmitter was activated, the spikes of noise appeared. With the transmitter off, the spikes again were not present. Not a real analytical or scientific method but some degree of indication that some are better than others, some are worse than others. Sounds like classic received and re-radiated intermod, Bob. W3LPL has chased this down, and I've observed it in our CW contesting trailer. Set up in the middle of nowhere, no issues with transmitter harmonics or intermod. Set up anywhere around civilization, strong harmonics and intermod. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
My big worry with regards to LED lights is that they have parts that are
sourced from different makers from run to run...
You get LED lights that on one run are dead quiet, and on subsequent
runs are not quiet...
I bought 20 of these bulbs, after testing one, and so far they all
appear quiet. Who knows what the next run will bring...
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/24/2017 05:55 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
The only time I've noticed RFI issues from CFL or LED bulbs is when they
are being excited by RF. I've measured 3 or 4 different ones of
different brands and wattage ratings. This was done using a fixture
where by the bulb was mounted on a suitable surface in a socket with the
transmit antenna {dual band VHF/UHF} some 6 ft away from the lamp and
the receive antenna {connected to a spectrum analyzer with a similar
dual band VHF/UHF antenna}, about 6 ft from the lamp. In all cases no
noise above background noise was observed. When the transmitter was
activated, the spikes of noise appeared. With the transmitter off, the
spikes again were not present. Not a real analytical or scientific
method but some degree of indication that some are better than others,
some are worse than others.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163
On 10/24/2017 7:45 AM, Charlie T wrote:
I must have at least 30 LED bulbs around the house ranging from ½W to
23W (eq. to 120W incandescent flood light).
Most are in the range of 25 to 60 Watt equivalent (200 to 800 Lumens).
Some are 5 years or more old and are from many different manufacturers.
The distance to antennas is anywhere from 12 feet to 150 feet.
Admittedly, I have never actively gone so far as to turn off each one
individually, but I don’t seem to notice any extra RFI anywhere.
There ARE a couple dimmers that raise holy heyull, but I make sure
those are off when operating.
That said, it may be an eye-opener for me to have my wife selectively
switch the LED's on/off while I listen to the bands.
73, Charlie k3ICH
As a side note (to an already off topic thread), I bought a couple
timer switches that do NOT use dimmer type (= NOISY) switching.
They are Intermatic, "Heavy Duty Timer", model ST01K, about $30 at
Home Depot.
They use a latching relay and are battery powered (CR-123) which is
supposedly good for about three years.
They have their own clock/timer that runs regardless if the AC is on
or off, and also takes into account daylight savings time.
They replace regular wall switches and I use them to control the
living room lights and circulating fans in the winter for the wood
burner in the basement.
They can be programed for four different modes with two variables,
Time on/time off, and/or Dusk on/Dusk off.
The living room lights are set for dusk ON, and 2300 OFF.
That way I don't have to monkey with a mechanical timer, resetting as
sunset varies or we lose the juice in a storm.
The fan control is set to come on at 0630 and go off at 2330.
During the summer, the fan switch is in its manual mode (OFF), because
they're only needed in the winter.
Another nice feature is an override button which when punched will
change the state of the powered device.
They're somewhat of a bear to program, but they DO exactly what
they're supposed to AND, except for the initial ON or OFF switching,
make absolutely NO RF noise.
__
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
The only time I've noticed RFI issues from CFL or LED bulbs is when they
are being excited by RF. I've measured 3 or 4 different ones of
different brands and wattage ratings. This was done using a fixture
where by the bulb was mounted on a suitable surface in a socket with the
transmit antenna {dual band VHF/UHF} some 6 ft away from the lamp and
the receive antenna {connected to a spectrum analyzer with a similar
dual band VHF/UHF antenna}, about 6 ft from the lamp. In all cases no
noise above background noise was observed. When the transmitter was
activated, the spikes of noise appeared. With the transmitter off, the
spikes again were not present. Not a real analytical or scientific
method but some degree of indication that some are better than others,
some are worse than others.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163
On 10/24/2017 7:45 AM, Charlie T wrote:
I must have at least 30 LED bulbs around the house ranging from ½W to 23W (eq.
to 120W incandescent flood light).
Most are in the range of 25 to 60 Watt equivalent (200 to 800 Lumens).
Some are 5 years or more old and are from many different manufacturers.
The distance to antennas is anywhere from 12 feet to 150 feet.
Admittedly, I have never actively gone so far as to turn off each one
individually, but I don’t seem to notice any extra RFI anywhere.
There ARE a couple dimmers that raise holy heyull, but I make sure those are
off when operating.
That said, it may be an eye-opener for me to have my wife selectively switch
the LED's on/off while I listen to the bands.
73, Charlie k3ICH
As a side note (to an already off topic thread), I bought a couple timer
switches that do NOT use dimmer type (= NOISY) switching.
They are Intermatic, "Heavy Duty Timer", model ST01K, about $30 at Home Depot.
They use a latching relay and are battery powered (CR-123) which is supposedly
good for about three years.
They have their own clock/timer that runs regardless if the AC is on or off,
and also takes into account daylight savings time.
They replace regular wall switches and I use them to control the living room
lights and circulating fans in the winter for the wood burner in the basement.
They can be programed for four different modes with two variables, Time on/time
off, and/or Dusk on/Dusk off.
The living room lights are set for dusk ON, and 2300 OFF.
That way I don't have to monkey with a mechanical timer, resetting as sunset
varies or we lose the juice in a storm.
The fan control is set to come on at 0630 and go off at 2330.
During the summer, the fan switch is in its manual mode (OFF), because they're
only needed in the winter.
Another nice feature is an override button which when punched will change the
state of the powered device.
They're somewhat of a bear to program, but they DO exactly what they're
supposed to AND, except for the initial ON or OFF switching, make absolutely NO
RF noise.
__
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
I must have at least 30 LED bulbs around the house ranging from ½W to 23W (eq. to 120W incandescent flood light). Most are in the range of 25 to 60 Watt equivalent (200 to 800 Lumens). Some are 5 years or more old and are from many different manufacturers. The distance to antennas is anywhere from 12 feet to 150 feet. Admittedly, I have never actively gone so far as to turn off each one individually, but I don’t seem to notice any extra RFI anywhere. There ARE a couple dimmers that raise holy heyull, but I make sure those are off when operating. That said, it may be an eye-opener for me to have my wife selectively switch the LED's on/off while I listen to the bands. 73, Charlie k3ICH As a side note (to an already off topic thread), I bought a couple timer switches that do NOT use dimmer type (= NOISY) switching. They are Intermatic, "Heavy Duty Timer", model ST01K, about $30 at Home Depot. They use a latching relay and are battery powered (CR-123) which is supposedly good for about three years. They have their own clock/timer that runs regardless if the AC is on or off, and also takes into account daylight savings time. They replace regular wall switches and I use them to control the living room lights and circulating fans in the winter for the wood burner in the basement. They can be programed for four different modes with two variables, Time on/time off, and/or Dusk on/Dusk off. The living room lights are set for dusk ON, and 2300 OFF. That way I don't have to monkey with a mechanical timer, resetting as sunset varies or we lose the juice in a storm. The fan control is set to come on at 0630 and go off at 2330. During the summer, the fan switch is in its manual mode (OFF), because they're only needed in the winter. Another nice feature is an override button which when punched will change the state of the powered device. They're somewhat of a bear to program, but they DO exactly what they're supposed to AND, except for the initial ON or OFF switching, make absolutely NO RF noise. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Part of the reason they look so yellow is the low CRI, or color rendering
index. Many bulbs lack deep red, so they look yellow even though they meet
the color temperature spec, they do it by having blue and more yellow and
tricking the measurement. Note that the CRI normally used is still not that
representative of the human eye. There is a newer version rarely used
because most bulbs would come out lousy. The human eye is used to black
body radiation, with a specific mix of colors. Even 2700 k can be perceived
as white if it is close to the black body curve.
I have found two bulbs that are in the 2700 to 3000 color temperature range
that look good. There are Cree TW series ones with high CRI, but 80% of
those I bought failed in three years. I did measure them to have low
conducted emissions with a clamp on probe made from a clamp on ferrite bead
and a spectrum analyzer.
More recently, I bought GE reveal LED bulbs that look good, but have not
measured RFI yet. and have no long term reliability info. These are used in
the XYL's craft room and she complained about the yellow looking ones, but
still likes the lower color temperature. These two types of bulbs are very
expensive compared to others.
Here is some light reading:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode#White
73,
Mark
W7MLG
On Oct 24, 2017 4:45 AM, "Clay Autery" wrote:
> 3000K VERY yellow... I wouldn't be able to see anything. I look for
> highest possible... 5000K minimum
>
> 73,
> Clay
>
>
> On 10/23/2017 11:36 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
>
>> Here is the review of these lights...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJWssuCGkC8
>>
>>
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave
>> NK7Z
>> http://www.nk7z.net
>>
>> On 10/23/2017 09:35 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
>>
>>> Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for a
>>> buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and swapped
>>> out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of noise.
>>>
>>> 73s and thanks,
>>> Dave
>>> NK7Z
>>> http://www.nk7z.net
>>>
>>> On 10/23/2017 05:07 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe I'm just lucky.
>>>> Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL
>>>> bulbs in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I have
>>>> to illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close to the
>>>> house at night.
>>>>
>>>> No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet
>>>>> until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a
>>>>> simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or
>>>>> multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with
>>>>> lessened issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands,
>>>>>> and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find
>>>>>> out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W"
>>>>>> LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim - N4ST
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces@mailm
>>>>>> an.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
>>>>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
>>>>>> evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
>>>>>> passed" {a.k.a
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
3000K VERY yellow... I wouldn't be able to see anything. I look
for highest possible... 5000K minimum
73,
Clay
On 10/23/2017 11:36 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
Here is the review of these lights...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJWssuCGkC8
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/23/2017 09:35 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for
a buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and
swapped out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of
noise.
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/23/2017 05:07 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL
bulbs in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I
have to illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too
close to the house at night.
No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was
quiet until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated
noise. In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a
duplex operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an
issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.
Bob, K4TAX
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands,
and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI
and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some
Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were
fine.
_
73,
Jim - N4ST
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw
K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed
it passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced
a million or so afterwards including those with some engineering
changes and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump
the main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
An observation:
I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction
/ elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
integral to the bulb.
The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
(60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and
the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP
as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on
other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15
FCC, Class B regulations.
YMMV
I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
“good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as
far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
Ben W4SC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/23/2017 9:35 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote: Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for a buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and swapped out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of noise. Thanks for the "heads up," Dave. Will grab some tomorrow! 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Here is the review of these lights...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJWssuCGkC8
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/23/2017 09:35 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for a
buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and
swapped out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of noise.
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/23/2017 05:07 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL
bulbs in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I
have to illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close
to the house at night.
No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet
until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise.
In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex
operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue.
Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.
Bob, K4TAX
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands,
and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and
find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some
Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were
fine.
_
73,
Jim - N4ST
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
million or so afterwards including those with some engineering
changes and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump
the main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
An observation:
I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
integral to the bulb.
The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
(60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the
RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as
printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class
B regulations.
YMMV
I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
“good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as
far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
Ben W4SC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for a
buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and
swapped out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of noise.
73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
On 10/23/2017 05:07 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL bulbs
in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I have to
illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close to the
house at night.
No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet
until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In
a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation
or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED
with lessened issues.
Bob, K4TAX
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands,
and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and
find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart
"100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.
_
73,
Jim - N4ST
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
million or so afterwards including those with some engineering
changes and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
An observation:
I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
integral to the bulb.
The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
(60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the
RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as
printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class
B regulations.
YMMV
I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
“good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far
as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
Ben W4SC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL bulbs
in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I have to
illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close to the
house at night.
No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the
the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex
condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple
receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.
Bob, K4TAX
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially
on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did
carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them
and they were fine.
_
73,
Jim - N4ST
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to
determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed"
{a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so afterwards
including those with some engineering changes and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main
breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
An observation:
I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television,
Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the
bulb.
The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL
US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs,
2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb
was determined to be the Utilitech.
I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on
channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on
the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies.
LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
YMMV
I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad”
LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across
the spectrum.
Ben W4SC
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--
R. Kevin StoverAC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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[Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Hi. A lot of the LED QRM issues, are caused by the PSU, or "Electronic Ballast" dropping into a discontinuous conduction mode within it's SMPS when low voltage halogen lamps are substituted with LED types. Change the "Ballast" or re-fit enough Halogen types to keep it happy (and quiet!) It's also worth noting, that the EMC regs for unwanted emissions from electrical/electronic equipment, is designed to protect Broadcast services, where signal levels are often several 10's of dB greater than those that we are interested in. So, it is quite possible for a fully approved gadget to pass all the required emissions tests, and still create mayhem on HF in particular. Also, in the EMC world, for commercial products (sold to the likes of us) it is assumed that nothing "radiates" directly from itself, as it is too small a fraction of a wavelength, so only conducted tests are done, and on artificially loaded leads and cables. Of course, add such things as long speaker leads, other gadgets, and you have a situation where a collection of fully approved pieces of (for example) domestic cable/satellite TV equipment, where each on it's own is fine, when used together cause trouble. It's what happens when committees create test spec's.That and commercial pressure to go the TCF route (Technical Construction File) where a technical appraisal is done on the design, resulting in a statement that it is believed no problem will ensue, and again, the product itself is never tested in practice. Cost saving pure and simple. Then you also get creative installers who adapt and modify things, causing trouble, for example using unscreened leads between a variable frequency drive inverter, and the motor it powers, purely because screened power cable is expensive. Or, they don't correctly ground the shield rendering it useless. Similarly, some of the modern LED based traffic signals, should have screened cables, but don't, purely because of the cost of replacing the old cabling with new. And we haven't even touched VDSL and G.Fast used for broadband connections from fibre enabled cabinets, and the noise they can produce, or in house Power Line Networking. Have Fun. Dave G0WBX. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/21/2017 1:45 PM, Gary Smith wrote: > Something to consider is what noise is coming in on the cable after > you pull the breaker on the house. I did that and found the AM > portable went nuts next to the breaker box. Found the noise is coming > in off of the cable lines. Zero luck with the cable company... Not zero --- one of the few things that the FCC field enforcement is still doing involves responding to complaints of leaky cable systems because of the possibility of signal leaking in the Aviation and Public Safety bands. They won't do anything unless the affected party makes a complaint, though. 1-888-CALL FCC (1-888-225-5322). The magic words are "cable signal leakage causing interference to communications". 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/22/2017 13:31, Phil Kane wrote: The volume of electronic devices shipped from overseas has so overwhelmed both the FCC and the US Customs that they have stopped requiring and processing the former Declaration of Conformity (FCC Form 740) for importation. That explains much. 73, Scott K9MA -- Scott K9MA k...@sdellington.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/21/2017 1:28 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing > noise floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor > is rising when the US approval process is so lax. It started going downhill when the FCC in its infinite wisdom (my employer at the time) decided to shift most of its responsibilities, including the equipment approval process, to the private sector. Depending on what the relationship between the testing lab and the manufacturer is, the testing may be above-board or just "stick on a label". Then we have the problem of the "laboratory queens" where devices submitted for testing are tweaked into compliance just for that purpose and they bear little or any resemblance to the devices shipped to the market other than cosmetic. The cheap-o Chinese radios are a prime example. The volume of electronic devices shipped from overseas has so overwhelmed both the FCC and the US Customs that they have stopped requiring and processing the former Declaration of Conformity (FCC Form 740) for importation. Enough ranting 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 10/21/2017 8:32 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the > main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes. That's always the first step in chasing RFI. If that does it, then trip each individual breaker one at a time and see which one(s) stop the noise. It's not rocket science and a lot easier than starting with appliances/lamps as the first step. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 Retired RFI-chaser >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
A year or two ago, W3LPL taught us that this is the result of passive intermod generated either by the diodes or the SMPS or both. We see this in our CW contesting trailer, where CW operating frequencies on 80, 40, and 20 are harmonically related. We run K3, P3, KPA500, KAT500 to individual single-band dipoles with feedpoints within a few feet of each other. The 40 and 80 feedlines both have double stubs, placed along the line to maximize their effectiveness per this app note http://k9yc.com/LocatingStubs.pdf and all antennas have common mode chokes at the feedpoint. If we park in the middle of nowhere, the stubs bring the power amp second harmonic down to the point that we can operate within 10 kHz or so of it. If, however, we set up close to civilization, some piece of gear, usually an SMPS, receives our fundamental, generates the harmonic, and re-radiates it. During CQP two weeks ago, we thought we were in the middle of nowhere (a remote mountain ridge in the Sierra), but then saw a cell tower a half mile or so away. My experience has been lots of noise sources at these sites, and something(s) near us were generating lots of harmonics. Last week I was working the Makrothen RTTY contest at home, running about 1 kW between 20and 40 with antennas whose feedpoints are 5-10 ft apart. Usually that's not a problem, thanks to double stubs on the 40M antenna, but that day I heard lots of passive intermod and saw it on the P3. Then at some time in the morning the intermod disappeared. I'm guessing that the offending device was moved, turned off, disconnected? On 10/21/2017 9:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues. http://k9yc.com/KillingRXNoiseVisalia.pdf http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf 73, Jim K9YC On 10/21/2017 9:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote: I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Hello Jim, Something that might help you in your RFI fight is being able to accurately define your RFI environment. See: http://nk7z.net/sdr-rfi-survey-p1/ for a brief write up on how to use an SDRPlay RSP-1 to look at your entire RFI environment, shown as a spectrogram, of frequency vs time, across a 24 hour period. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 10/21/2017 09:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote: I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Something to consider is what noise is
coming in on the cable after you pull the
breaker on the house. I did that and found
the AM portable went nuts next to the
breaker box. Found the noise is coming in
off of the cable lines. Zero luck with the
cable company...
Just sayin'
73,
Gary
KA1J
> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
> evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>
> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
> passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
> million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes
> and cost down changes.
>
> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
> main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
> > An observation:
> >
> > I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
> > television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
> >
> > Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
> > elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
> > integral to the bulb.
> >
> > The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
> > and is `C UL US´ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
> >
> > I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
> > (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
> >
> > By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
> > offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
> >
> > I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the
> > RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
> >
> > The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as
> > printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
> >
> > NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
> > frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class
> > B regulations.
> >
> > YMMV
> >
> > I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
> > "good" vs "bad" LED bulb manufacturer and part
> > identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
> >
> > Ben W4SC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
As I understand a company can perform self certification. There seems to be no independent audit system. Thus if the company says it meets specs, then it meets specs. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 21, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> On 2017-10-21 10:48 AM, w4sc wrote: >> LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations. > > I found out first hand a number of years ago that a device that has type > approval in the US can still spew a lot of unwanted RF. Better to have some > approval process but it would be better if the specs were much more strict. > > I worked for a company that had a pair of transceiver devices used in > real-time data collection. The devices had FCC type approval but failed to > pass the UK type approval process. I couldn't believe what I saw when I put > the devices on a spectrum analyzer. The main oscillators operating in the > 27MHz and 49MHz ranges had harmonics galore up in to the gigahertz range. It > made me wonder if the original designer ever checked the devices with an SA. > I was able to fix the problem for both devices with trivial changes and the > devices then passed the UK approval process. > > The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing noise > floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor is rising > when the US approval process is so lax. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're >| powerful!" > #include | --Chris Hardwick > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On 2017-10-21 10:48 AM, w4sc wrote: LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations. I found out first hand a number of years ago that a device that has type approval in the US can still spew a lot of unwanted RF. Better to have some approval process but it would be better if the specs were much more strict. I worked for a company that had a pair of transceiver devices used in real-time data collection. The devices had FCC type approval but failed to pass the UK type approval process. I couldn't believe what I saw when I put the devices on a spectrum analyzer. The main oscillators operating in the 27MHz and 49MHz ranges had harmonics galore up in to the gigahertz range. It made me wonder if the original designer ever checked the devices with an SA. I was able to fix the problem for both devices with trivial changes and the devices then passed the UK approval process. The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing noise floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor is rising when the US approval process is so lax. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the
the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex
condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple
receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened
issues.
Bob, K4TAX
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
>
> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for
> me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is
> causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights
> before committing to them and they were fine.
>
>
> _
>
> 73,
>
> Jim - N4ST
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>
> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to
> determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>
> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed"
> {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so
> afterwards including those with some engineering changes and cost down
> changes.
>
> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main
> breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
>
> > An observation:
>
> >
>
> > I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television,
> > Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>
> >
>
> > Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
> > elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to
> > the bulb.
>
> >
>
> > The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C
> > UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>
> >
>
> > I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?)
> > bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>
> >
>
> > By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending
> > bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>
> >
>
> > I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on
> > channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>
> >
>
> > The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed
> > on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>
> >
>
> > NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
> > frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B
> > regulations.
>
> >
>
> > YMMV
>
> >
>
> > I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs
> > “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions
> > across the spectrum.
>
> >
>
> > Ben W4SC
>
> > __
>
> > Elecraft mailing list
>
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> >
>
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>
> > rmcg...@blomand.net
>
>
> __
>
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me,
especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is
causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before
committing to them and they were fine.
_
73,
Jim - N4ST
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to
determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed"
{a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so
afterwards including those with some engineering changes and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main
breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
> An observation:
>
> I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television,
> Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>
> Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
> elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the
> bulb.
>
> The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C
> UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>
> I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?)
> bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>
> By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb
> was determined to be the Utilitech.
>
> I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on
> channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>
> The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed
> on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>
> NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
> frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B
> regulations.
>
> YMMV
>
> I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs
> “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions
> across the spectrum.
>
> Ben W4SC
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> rmcg...@blomand.net <mailto:rmcg...@blomand.net>
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes
and cost down changes.
Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
An observation:
I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television,
Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the
bulb.
The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL
US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs,
2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb
was determined to be the Utilitech.
I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on
channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on
the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies.
LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
YMMV
I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad”
LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across
the spectrum.
Ben W4SC
__
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[Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
An observation: I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV. Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb. The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs. I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM. By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech. I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated. The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also. NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations. YMMV I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum. Ben W4SC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
I didn't post this because I hoped it'd help everyone with their Garage Door Openers. I posted it because *if* the Genie Bulbs are low-RFI across the whole spectrum, that might be useful for other reasons. 73 -- Lynn -Original Message- From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT [mailto:kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com] Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 4:31 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs. Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the garage door receiver. These bulbs are specifically low-RFI. I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz. 73 -- Lynn __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Apparently correct, Lynn. I had my garage door serviced two weeks ago and the last thing the repairman did was pop open the frosted plastic bulb cover on the opener and say "just making sure you don't have LED bulbs in here. They play havoc with the receiver on the openers). He said most everyone in the garage door industry knows of that problem. First I had heard of it. 73, Terry W0FM -Original Message- From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT [mailto:kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com] Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 4:31 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs. Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the garage door receiver. These bulbs are specifically low-RFI. I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz. 73 -- Lynn __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
How ironic. My two Genie garage door openers sit there and generate a huge amount of buzz-saw hash on HF as long as they have power. I have to essentially unplug them to use the radio, and my horizontal loop is 100 feet away from them. Chip AE5KA On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT < kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote: > Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs. > > Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the > garage door receiver. > > These bulbs are specifically low-RFI. > > I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI > by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz. > > 73 -- Lynn > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to lightdazz...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT < kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote: > Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs. > > Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the > garage door receiver. > > These bulbs are specifically low-RFI. > > I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI > by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz. > > 73 -- Lynn > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to lightdazz...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs. Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the garage door receiver. These bulbs are specifically low-RFI. I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz. 73 -- Lynn __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
