Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hi Nell, This is very helpful thank you, I will investigate and through my reading maybe can think in a more informed way on what you are discussing here and understand better the depths of what might be explored / is being explored. As a designer who works in performance contexts, I'm particularly interested in the notions of subject/object and also the idea of the semi-living as fashion designers such as Suzanne Lee explore biomaterials and Bio Couture: http://biocouture.co.uk/ where the bacterial sheets are grown to create fabric for garments. The emphasis is more in this instance on the sustainable aspects of design but there is still the living / semi-living aspect and the subject/object I think coming into play. Best Regards Michele From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] on behalf of Nell Tenhaaf [tenh...@yorku.ca] Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 4:31 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Michele, there are a lot of ways to approach the expansion of aesthetics, some examples I like: Brian Massumi on event-based lived abstraction; Jennifer Fisher on the non-visual senses; Margaret Morse on viewer-turned-participant going back to 1970s interactivity. I've just been looking at the material Oron referred to, found the really interesting Introspective Self-Rapports: Shaping Ethical and Aesthetic Concepts 1850-2006, by Katrin Solhdju that includes Neal White's work and some bottom-up aesthetics basics. -Nell On 2013-09-12, at 3:21 PM, Michele Danjoux wrote: --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello Oron and Nell, Just enjoying reading your posts. I am finding the discussion fascinating thank you and was wondering what kinds of references might be ones to look at on aesthetics aside of the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy? Thank you Michele From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] on behalf of Oron Catts [oron.ca...@uwa.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:35 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Thanks Nell, Interestingly enough- in 2002 we organised a conference titled the Aesthetics of Care, there also was very little reference to the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy. What we had instead was lots of discussion about the non-human on display and references to performance/live art as point of departure for biological art practices. Later, Neal White talked about invasive aesthetics, an idea we liked very much as it yet again disrupt the ocular centric bias of the field. The most intimate relationship one can have with an art work is by digesting, incorporating it into one's body- you can't really do it with a-life... and it is a very different aesthetic experience than just watching But as Samuel Butler wrote in Erehwon, 1872 '...for an art is like a living organism - better dead than dying.' No cascade there... Oron -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [mailto:empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of Nell Tenhaaf Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 7:30 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello everyone, Oddly, aesthetics has become one of my favourite topics even though I come out of the 70s postmodern and otherwise busted-open art moment. when it was the last thing anyone wanted to invoke. My feeling is that we will get hamstrung in seeking an aesthetic for bioart (or a-life art, or any of the marvellous outlier practices of the past decades) if we drop back to, say Kant - as comforting as that might sound. This came up in the context of a TOCHI (computer-human interaction) special issue I was part of a few years ago, on aesthetics of interaction, which had a lot of good thinking about Dewey's pragmatist aesthetics that keeps real world deployment in view, and in general focused on ways of designing experience or interfaces to engage multiple kinds of embodiments and types of events. One commentator lamented than in the whole issue, the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy were nearly invisible. It was a bit of a shock - although if the concern is to legitimate some k in d of practice or set of practices, then yes, not such a surprising comment. Can't we legitimate at this point if we need to, via practices that we feel have a kinship in their kind of renegade approach to asking questions? - this reminds me of Rob Mitchell's comments about performance art as a key precursor to bioart, linking it with human/non-human
Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics
--empyre- soft-skinned space--Another useful source for aesthetics and bioart, in my opinion, is Whitehead. Instead of a judgement, as with Kant, Whitehead considers aesthetics as lures for feeling. Such a position opens up a range of aesthetic consideration of human and nonhuman aesthetics in bioart. (I'm pulling from Steven Shaviro's book _Without Criteria_ for this reading of Whitehead: http://www.shaviro.com/Othertexts/WithoutCriteria.pdf). Best- Tyler On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Nell Tenhaaf tenh...@yorku.ca wrote: --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Michele, there are a lot of ways to approach the expansion of aesthetics, some examples I like: Brian Massumi on event-based lived abstraction; Jennifer Fisher on the non-visual senses; Margaret Morse on viewer-turned-participant going back to 1970s interactivity. I've just been looking at the material Oron referred to, found the really interesting Introspective Self-Rapports: Shaping Ethical and Aesthetic Concepts 1850-2006, by Katrin Solhdju that includes Neal White's work and some bottom-up aesthetics basics. -Nell On 2013-09-12, at 3:21 PM, Michele Danjoux wrote: --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello Oron and Nell, Just enjoying reading your posts. I am finding the discussion fascinating thank you and was wondering what kinds of references might be ones to look at on aesthetics aside of the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy? Thank you Michele From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [ empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] on behalf of Oron Catts [ oron.ca...@uwa.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:35 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Thanks Nell, Interestingly enough- in 2002 we organised a conference titled the Aesthetics of Care, there also was very little reference to the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy. What we had instead was lots of discussion about the non-human on display and references to performance/live art as point of departure for biological art practices. Later, Neal White talked about invasive aesthetics, an idea we liked very much as it yet again disrupt the ocular centric bias of the field. The most intimate relationship one can have with an art work is by digesting, incorporating it into one's body- you can't really do it with a-life... and it is a very different aesthetic experience than just watching But as Samuel Butler wrote in Erehwon, 1872 '...for an art is like a living organism - better dead than dying.' No cascade there... Oron -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [mailto: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of Nell Tenhaaf Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 7:30 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello everyone, Oddly, aesthetics has become one of my favourite topics even though I come out of the 70s postmodern and otherwise busted-open art moment. when it was the last thing anyone wanted to invoke. My feeling is that we will get hamstrung in seeking an aesthetic for bioart (or a-life art, or any of the marvellous outlier practices of the past decades) if we drop back to, say Kant - as comforting as that might sound. This came up in the context of a TOCHI (computer-human interaction) special issue I was part of a few years ago, on aesthetics of interaction, which had a lot of good thinking about Dewey's pragmatist aesthetics that keeps real world deployment in view, and in general focused on ways of designing experience or interfaces to engage multiple kinds of embodiments and types of events. One commentator lamented than in the whole issue, the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy were nearly invisible. It was a bit of a shock - although if the concern is to legitimate some k in d of practice or set of practices, then yes, not such a surprising comment. Can't we legitimate at this point if we need to, via practices that we feel have a kinship in their kind of renegade approach to asking questions? - this reminds me of Rob Mitchell's comments about performance art as a key precursor to bioart, linking it with human/non-human population interactions - and it also links up to often physical risk and lots of good subject/object permeability. all best, -n ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http
Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Also take a look at Claudia Gianetti's book/writings on digital aesthetics (http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/themes/aesthetics_of_the_digital/). Matt Fuller, Alex McLean, Adrian Ward, Geoff Cox, Florian Cramer (http://www.netzliteratur.net/cramer/concepts_notations_software_art.html) have witten on aesthetics of software art, in particular. Also see Max Bense's work on computational aesthetics (and Vilem Flusser) I'm editing a book right now (Blackwell Companion on Digital Art that will have a whole section on aesthetics). C. From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] on behalf of Nell Tenhaaf [tenh...@yorku.ca] Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 11:31 AM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Michele, there are a lot of ways to approach the expansion of aesthetics, some examples I like: Brian Massumi on event-based lived abstraction; Jennifer Fisher on the non-visual senses; Margaret Morse on viewer-turned-participant going back to 1970s interactivity. I've just been looking at the material Oron referred to, found the really interesting Introspective Self-Rapports: Shaping Ethical and Aesthetic Concepts 1850-2006, by Katrin Solhdju that includes Neal White's work and some bottom-up aesthetics basics. -Nell On 2013-09-12, at 3:21 PM, Michele Danjoux wrote: --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello Oron and Nell, Just enjoying reading your posts. I am finding the discussion fascinating thank you and was wondering what kinds of references might be ones to look at on aesthetics aside of the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy? Thank you Michele From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] on behalf of Oron Catts [oron.ca...@uwa.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:35 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Thanks Nell, Interestingly enough- in 2002 we organised a conference titled the Aesthetics of Care, there also was very little reference to the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy. What we had instead was lots of discussion about the non-human on display and references to performance/live art as point of departure for biological art practices. Later, Neal White talked about invasive aesthetics, an idea we liked very much as it yet again disrupt the ocular centric bias of the field. The most intimate relationship one can have with an art work is by digesting, incorporating it into one's body- you can't really do it with a-life... and it is a very different aesthetic experience than just watching But as Samuel Butler wrote in Erehwon, 1872 '...for an art is like a living organism - better dead than dying.' No cascade there... Oron -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [mailto:empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of Nell Tenhaaf Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 7:30 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello everyone, Oddly, aesthetics has become one of my favourite topics even though I come out of the 70s postmodern and otherwise busted-open art moment. when it was the last thing anyone wanted to invoke. My feeling is that we will get hamstrung in seeking an aesthetic for bioart (or a-life art, or any of the marvellous outlier practices of the past decades) if we drop back to, say Kant - as comforting as that might sound. This came up in the context of a TOCHI (computer-human interaction) special issue I was part of a few years ago, on aesthetics of interaction, which had a lot of good thinking about Dewey's pragmatist aesthetics that keeps real world deployment in view, and in general focused on ways of designing experience or interfaces to engage multiple kinds of embodiments and types of events. One commentator lamented than in the whole issue, the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy were nearly invisible. It was a bit of a shock - although if the concern is to legitimate some k in d of practice or set of practices, then yes, not such a surprising comment. Can't we legitimate at this point if we need to, via practices that we feel have a kinship in their kind of renegade approach to asking questions? - this reminds me of Rob Mitchell's comments about performance art as a key precursor to bioart, linking it with human/non-human population interactions - and it also links up to often physical risk and lots of good subject/object permeability. all best, -n ___ empyre forum empyre
Re: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics
--empyre- soft-skinned space-- Thanks Nell, Interestingly enough- in 2002 we organised a conference titled the Aesthetics of Care, there also was very little reference to the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy. What we had instead was lots of discussion about the non-human on display and references to performance/live art as point of departure for biological art practices. Later, Neal White talked about invasive aesthetics, an idea we liked very much as it yet again disrupt the ocular centric bias of the field. The most intimate relationship one can have with an art work is by digesting, incorporating it into one's body- you can't really do it with a-life... and it is a very different aesthetic experience than just watching But as Samuel Butler wrote in Erehwon, 1872 '...for an art is like a living organism - better dead than dying.' No cascade there... Oron -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au [mailto:empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of Nell Tenhaaf Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 7:30 PM To: soft_skinned_space Subject: [-empyre-] ah, aesthetics --empyre- soft-skinned space-- Hello everyone, Oddly, aesthetics has become one of my favourite topics even though I come out of the 70s postmodern and otherwise busted-open art moment. when it was the last thing anyone wanted to invoke. My feeling is that we will get hamstrung in seeking an aesthetic for bioart (or a-life art, or any of the marvellous outlier practices of the past decades) if we drop back to, say Kant - as comforting as that might sound. This came up in the context of a TOCHI (computer-human interaction) special issue I was part of a few years ago, on aesthetics of interaction, which had a lot of good thinking about Dewey's pragmatist aesthetics that keeps real world deployment in view, and in general focused on ways of designing experience or interfaces to engage multiple kinds of embodiments and types of events. One commentator lamented than in the whole issue, the heavyweights of aesthetic philosophy were nearly invisible. It was a bit of a shock - although if the concern is to legitimate some kin d of practice or set of practices, then yes, not such a surprising comment. Can't we legitimate at this point if we need to, via practices that we feel have a kinship in their kind of renegade approach to asking questions? - this reminds me of Rob Mitchell's comments about performance art as a key precursor to bioart, linking it with human/non-human population interactions - and it also links up to often physical risk and lots of good subject/object permeability. all best, -n ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
