Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
I like zoho. We have adopted it. Thank you for pointing me to it. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ Predictions are hard to make, especially about the future. --- Niels Bohr, Nobel Physicist - Original Message - From: marbux mar...@gmail.com To: Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group euglug@euglug.org Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:08:01 PM Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs Hi, Allen, I was a typographer for 20-some years before a midlife career change, so keeping an eye on the state of the art is a hobby. I think it important that before deciding on a solution, you determine what format(s) will be required by the folks who do the final typographical production work. Do you plan to self-publish? Will others need to process the work in editable form before publication? If so, what formats are they equipped to work with for a work of the type? Will the book be printed, online, or both? Do you need to pass your work on to others for refinement and need only deliver copy that can be rekeyboarded and digital photos for insertion? There are free and inexpensive desktop publishing systems, but when you add the need for collaboration in their use, I know of no solutions other than expensive proprietary software. E.g., solutions for publishing businesses with staff who need to collaborate such as newspapers and magazines. There are also free and inexpensive single user systems that can achieve very high quality typography. But as with the high end publishing solutions, there is a fairly steep learning curve that you may not wish to traverse to do it yourself. High quality typography requires far more than the ability to issue commands to a computer. It also requires intangibles such as a keenly honed sense of aesthetics, what is possible with a system, and deep experience in its use. So you need be concerned with what the final formats have to be as well as any intermediary formats the data must pass through before it reaches the final format. Then you can determine what collaboration ware is compatible. If the work produced by the collaboration can be passed to the next app in the processing chain in .ODT, .DOC, .DOCX, or .RTF format, then I suggest that you spend some time playing with the Zoho service for the collaborative portion of the work. http://www.zoho.com/. Zoho has collaboration features much more advanced and mature than Google Docs. And Zoho Writer is way out in front of Google Docs in typographical (and other) features. Zoho is Google's major competitor in terms of market share for the type of apps included in Google Docs. It's a company based in India that from the git-go has been far more aggressive than Google in rolling out new integrated apps and in adding features to their apps. Most of their apps are scriptable, sharing a common scripting language, so a single script can manipulate multiple apps. That isn't to suggest that either company's apps are suitable for the polishing phase. But if the listed formats can get you to the app that does the polishing, Zoho has a superior collaboration solution with more capabilities. It's my favored service for collaborative editing. First gig of storage free, $3 per user per month for the next increment. Signing up separately, each of you would have a gig of storage and and can invite the others to collaborate on a document-by-document basis for docs stored in each account. Questions don't go unanswered in their Help forums. They've got staff who make sure of that. Hope this helps, Paul ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:45 AM, abr...@peak.org wrote: I like zoho. We have adopted it. Thank you for pointing me to it. You're welcome, Allen. I hope it works out well for you. Best regards, Paul ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs light bulbs
From: abr...@peak.org abr...@peak.org Allen Brown abrown at peak.org http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ Q: How many astronomers does it take to replace a light bulb? A: One---The astronomer holds the bulb while the galaxy rotates. That only works if the light bulb gets replaced at the center of the galaxy. Unfortunately, that's also where we expect a Black Hole -- so no one would be able to tell the difference between a broken and a working light bulb )-: Have a great wkend...Horst ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
Hi, Allen, I was a typographer for 20-some years before a midlife career change, so keeping an eye on the state of the art is a hobby. I think it important that before deciding on a solution, you determine what format(s) will be required by the folks who do the final typographical production work. Do you plan to self-publish? Will others need to process the work in editable form before publication? If so, what formats are they equipped to work with for a work of the type? Will the book be printed, online, or both? Do you need to pass your work on to others for refinement and need only deliver copy that can be rekeyboarded and digital photos for insertion? There are free and inexpensive desktop publishing systems, but when you add the need for collaboration in their use, I know of no solutions other than expensive proprietary software. E.g., solutions for publishing businesses with staff who need to collaborate such as newspapers and magazines. There are also free and inexpensive single user systems that can achieve very high quality typography. But as with the high end publishing solutions, there is a fairly steep learning curve that you may not wish to traverse to do it yourself. High quality typography requires far more than the ability to issue commands to a computer. It also requires intangibles such as a keenly honed sense of aesthetics, what is possible with a system, and deep experience in its use. So you need be concerned with what the final formats have to be as well as any intermediary formats the data must pass through before it reaches the final format. Then you can determine what collaboration ware is compatible. If the work produced by the collaboration can be passed to the next app in the processing chain in .ODT, .DOC, .DOCX, or .RTF format, then I suggest that you spend some time playing with the Zoho service for the collaborative portion of the work. http://www.zoho.com/. Zoho has collaboration features much more advanced and mature than Google Docs. And Zoho Writer is way out in front of Google Docs in typographical (and other) features. Zoho is Google's major competitor in terms of market share for the type of apps included in Google Docs. It's a company based in India that from the git-go has been far more aggressive than Google in rolling out new integrated apps and in adding features to their apps. Most of their apps are scriptable, sharing a common scripting language, so a single script can manipulate multiple apps. That isn't to suggest that either company's apps are suitable for the polishing phase. But if the listed formats can get you to the app that does the polishing, Zoho has a superior collaboration solution with more capabilities. It's my favored service for collaborative editing. First gig of storage free, $3 per user per month for the next increment. Signing up separately, each of you would have a gig of storage and and can invite the others to collaborate on a document-by-document basis for docs stored in each account. Questions don't go unanswered in their Help forums. They've got staff who make sure of that. Hope this helps, Paul ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
If you do a presentation in Google Docs, Power Point for example, you can use images. As long as you trust your collaborators, you may make the links private to a degree in each document's sharing settings. It can be very bulky, but a nice way to exclude information is to have a global doc with semi-external links depending on content and who you wish to view/edit. --Kaplan On 5/25/2011 5:41 PM, Allen Brown wrote: I have been asked to write a book. It will be heavy on photos. It will be a collaboration with each of us in different states or different countries. I asked a couple of techie friends what they would recommend. The response was to check Google Docs first. If that wouldn't work maybe a wiki would work. Today a couple of us started playing with Google Docs. For text it looks promising. But neither of us could insert a photo. Since the photos are the main value of the book, I don't want them in a public place on the web. They should either be browsed on the local computer or they should be somehow protected from reading. Do any of you know how to get photos into Google Docs? Or are we approaching this all wrong? ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
So, a few questions: 1. Do you require real-time collaboration? 2. Is obscurity enough security for your images (and document as a whole)? 2a. Could you use screen-quality image versions for the composition of the work, and swap in print-quality ones later? 3. Does your solution need to be cheap-or-free? -Ben On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 10:10 AM, JS Kaplan kg...@hotmail.com wrote: I forgot, uploading a PDF also gets you images with Google Docs. For example, here's our local ham radio club newsletter: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=explorerchrome=truesrcid=0B4g_J4lkPJMWMjhhMDY1ZTAtOTg4MS00ODkwLTgxNjctYWRhYmE1YjIyNjlmhl=en_US --Kaplan *Melita! domi adsum. Honey! I'm home. *Henry Beard, *Latin for All Occasions*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_for_all_Occasions . ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
Thank you. I will take a look. Another problem I ran into with Google Docs was the user agreement. Specifically section 11.1 where it says they have permanent irrevocable rights to publish my works. We decided that was a deal killer. I admit I'm a bit hazy on the formatting requirements. I asked on this and it sounded like they could work with pretty much anything. I anticipate some surprises. But for now I figure the important thing is to get the content assembled. If the formatting is a little amateurish it won't really offend me. The publishing will be done in Ukraine and will be about Ukraine. The writing will be in Ukrainian and English. -- Allen Brown abrown at peak.org http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ Q: How many astronomers does it take to replace a light bulb? A: One---The astronomer holds the bulb while the galaxy rotates. - Original Message - From: marbux mar...@gmail.com To: Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group euglug@euglug.org Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:08:01 PM Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs Hi, Allen, I was a typographer for 20-some years before a midlife career change, so keeping an eye on the state of the art is a hobby. I think it important that before deciding on a solution, you determine what format(s) will be required by the folks who do the final typographical production work. Do you plan to self-publish? Will others need to process the work in editable form before publication? If so, what formats are they equipped to work with for a work of the type? Will the book be printed, online, or both? Do you need to pass your work on to others for refinement and need only deliver copy that can be rekeyboarded and digital photos for insertion? There are free and inexpensive desktop publishing systems, but when you add the need for collaboration in their use, I know of no solutions other than expensive proprietary software. E.g., solutions for publishing businesses with staff who need to collaborate such as newspapers and magazines. There are also free and inexpensive single user systems that can achieve very high quality typography. But as with the high end publishing solutions, there is a fairly steep learning curve that you may not wish to traverse to do it yourself. High quality typography requires far more than the ability to issue commands to a computer. It also requires intangibles such as a keenly honed sense of aesthetics, what is possible with a system, and deep experience in its use. So you need be concerned with what the final formats have to be as well as any intermediary formats the data must pass through before it reaches the final format. Then you can determine what collaboration ware is compatible. If the work produced by the collaboration can be passed to the next app in the processing chain in .ODT, .DOC, .DOCX, or .RTF format, then I suggest that you spend some time playing with the Zoho service for the collaborative portion of the work. http://www.zoho.com/. Zoho has collaboration features much more advanced and mature than Google Docs. And Zoho Writer is way out in front of Google Docs in typographical (and other) features. Zoho is Google's major competitor in terms of market share for the type of apps included in Google Docs. It's a company based in India that from the git-go has been far more aggressive than Google in rolling out new integrated apps and in adding features to their apps. Most of their apps are scriptable, sharing a common scripting language, so a single script can manipulate multiple apps. That isn't to suggest that either company's apps are suitable for the polishing phase. But if the listed formats can get you to the app that does the polishing, Zoho has a superior collaboration solution with more capabilities. It's my favored service for collaborative editing. First gig of storage free, $3 per user per month for the next increment. Signing up separately, each of you would have a gig of storage and and can invite the others to collaborate on a document-by-document basis for docs stored in each account. Questions don't go unanswered in their Help forums. They've got staff who make sure of that. Hope this helps, Paul ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
- Ben Barrett stircrazy...@gmail.com wrote: So, a few questions: 1. Do you require real-time collaboration? I don't think so. 2. Is obscurity enough security for your images (and document as a whole)? I think so. 2a. Could you use screen-quality image versions for the composition of the work, and swap in print-quality ones later? Sort of. That would be a good way to solve some of the problems. For instance the photos would be less valuable to someone stealing my work that way. But I don't know if my collaborators are sophisticated enough to handle this complication. 3. Does your solution need to be cheap-or-free? -Ben Yes. This is a no profit job. -- Allen Brown abrown at peak.org http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ If you ate pasta and antipasti, would you still be hungry? --- George Carlin On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 10:10 AM, JS Kaplan kg...@hotmail.com wrote: I forgot, uploading a PDF also gets you images with Google Docs. For example, here's our local ham radio club newsletter: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=explorerchrome=truesrcid=0B4g_J4lkPJMWMjhhMDY1ZTAtOTg4MS00ODkwLTgxNjctYWRhYmE1YjIyNjlmhl=en_US --Kaplan Melita! domi adsum. Honey! I'm home. Henry Beard, Latin for All Occasions . ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
Allen Brown wrote: I have been asked to write a book. It will be heavy on photos. It will be a collaboration with each of us in different states or different countries. I asked a couple of techie friends what they would recommend. The response was to check Google Docs first. If that wouldn't work maybe a wiki would work. Today a couple of us started playing with Google Docs. For text it looks promising. But neither of us could insert a photo. Since the photos are the main value of the book, I don't want them in a public place on the web. They should either be browsed on the local computer or they should be somehow protected from reading. Do any of you know how to get photos into Google Docs? Or are we approaching this all wrong? Allen Brown While I have a (free, as in no cost) google account which allows access to google docs, I have not used it for anything other than Youtube videos. However, I just looked at the docs portion of the product and viewed the 8 demo vidoes (see link to videos at ... https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=writelypassive=1209600continue=http://docs.google.com/followup=http://docs.google.com/ltmpl=homepage ... hope that helps ... what it seems to be suggesting is that you have to have an account and upload your files to be able to insert them. Correct me if I am wrong there ... thanks Regards Fred James ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
Re: [Eug-lug] Google Docs
I would recommend LYX. I know it's not google docs. But if your planning on writing a book It looks like it would do a terrific job. I have played around with it and I like what you can do with it. I don't know if it is collaborative though. I like the fact you can do dvi,pdf,or ps files. So you can see what it looks like in book format. Also if you do any editing with footnotes they get the page numbers correct. Other Processors seem to mess thing up. Type something up and copy and paste into LYX and then click on the pdf. I was really impressed. The nice thing it is open source too. Easy to use as most Word Processors. Read the Introduction in the Help link on LYX it will explain what it can do. Tim On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Allen Brown abr...@peak.org wrote: I have been asked to write a book. It will be heavy on photos. It will be a collaboration with each of us in different states or different countries. I asked a couple of techie friends what they would recommend. The response was to check Google Docs first. If that wouldn't work maybe a wiki would work. Today a couple of us started playing with Google Docs. For text it looks promising. But neither of us could insert a photo. Since the photos are the main value of the book, I don't want them in a public place on the web. They should either be browsed on the local computer or they should be somehow protected from reading. Do any of you know how to get photos into Google Docs? Or are we approaching this all wrong? -- Allen Brown abrown at peak.org http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. --- Sir Winston Churchill ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug ___ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug
