Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 23:03 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> Have you ever read "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy"?

So I'm not the only one :).

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 22:43 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
> what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has
> been communicated multiple times over the past few months

Hi,

a lot of Evolution users don't use GNOME or any other DE at all.

“There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts
and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning
department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had
plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to
start making a fuss about it now. … What do you mean you’ve never been
to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, it’s only four light
years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be bothered to take an
interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout. Energize the
demolition beams.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Tim McConnell via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 23:10 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> No, there's no headers like that. I was wondering if there is some
> logic somewhere that parses the subject for keywords like
> "Announcement:"!
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts on it.
> 
> P.

Only thing I can think of is maybe your using IMAP and it "labels"
mails as important like gmail does? Yes it's annoying behavior. 

-- 
Tim McConnell 
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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Pete Biggs]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 14:57 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 19:29 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > I had assumed it would be something like that. But what is the header
> > that controls it
> 
> I believe that checkbox adds this email header:
> 
>   Importance: high

No, there's no headers like that. I was wondering if there is some
logic somewhere that parses the subject for keywords like
"Announcement:"!

Thanks for your thoughts on it.

P.

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has
> been communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1]
> and [2],

Communicated to whom?

Have you ever read "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy"?

One glaring omission in [1] and [2] is *this* *list*. Are you expecting
everyone on this list to also be on the Gnome devel and foundation
lists? Many people who use this list don't even use Gnome, have no
interest in Gnome, nor really care about it. They just use Evolution
and want some help.

>  but what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list

It's not my list. I'm just a user who has been trying to help people.

> mentioning we're switching to *Discord*, or others not even
> understanding Discourse has the same mailing list workflow that you
> have today but has some sugar added on top for people who like web
> forums and other features Discourse provides.

My experience of web forums is that the discussions are disjointed,
without any real threading, and it's difficult to follow detailed,
lengthy, discussions.  Does tacking a mail interface on to it alleviate
any of those issues?

Do the notifications mails from Discourse have threading information in
them? I don't see how it can if some posts are written on the forum and
some are email based.  Have these sorts of issues been thought about?
This is a mail client we are talking about here, we CARE about such
things.

> 
> 
> There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an
> exception from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case
> you want some more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just
> give Discourse a try. But please, very please, let's just stop
> complaining for the sake of doing so and without having even tried
> using the new tool.

But if we try it and don't like it, what then? I presume there is no
other option under the auspices of Gnome? There's no point in lying
down in front of the bulldozer?


P.

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Re: [Evolution] More info on my intermittent failure of messages to mark themselves as read

[Steve Litt]

Steve Litt said on Thu, 08 Sep 2022 07:31:12 -0400

I'm taking the abnormal step of top-posting because the old material is
for reference only; I'm not referring to any specific material in the
prior post...

While we still have a mailing list let me tell you what I've discovered
about the intermittent failure to mark as read:

The symptom is that usually, but not always, the first new post of a
bunch of new posts will not mark itself as read, even if you click on
its line and wait two seconds. I believe this happens in both the
"unread only" and "all messages" views.

The best two solutions I've found are either:

A: Click the initial post, wait two seconds, select another folder, go
back to the original folder, click the post again, wait two seconds,
and its status reverts to "read".

B: Right click the post and select "Mark as read".

Thanks,

SteveT


>Hi all,
>
>I think this problem has several root causes, any one of which can
>cause it.
>
>First, there's a difference between the light blue background on an
>email when you first select a folder, and the dark blue background
>when you click on that message. I think I need to click on it in order
>to mark as read.
>
>Second, I must wait the entire 2 seconds, that I specified in the
>config, for the message to realize it's been read.
>
>However, there are still intermittent situations where a message
>stubbornly refuses to mark itself as read. This occurs almost
>exclusively on the message that first gets the light blue background
>when I move to the folder. I click on that message and wait 2 seconds,
>5 seconds or whatever, and it remains unread.
>
>These pesky messages soon mark themselves as read when I leave the
>folder and come back once or twice, but it's inconvenient because I
>keep clicking on folders having nothing unread due to the false unread
>status.
>
>Given this new info, any ideas for either a root cause or diagnostic
>tests I can perform?
>
>SteveT
>
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SteveT

Steve Litt 
Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 22:44 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
> And it seems I forgot both [1] and [2], there you go.
> 
> [1]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html
> [2]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
> 
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
> 
> > Pete,
> > 
> > what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission
> > has been
> > communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and
> > [2], but

Those announcements were sent to several Gnome development lists, which
neither I nor (AFAIK) any of my fellow moderators subscribe to. We are
users, not developers. It would have been nice to have similar
announcements sent to those of us who actually deal with list
moderation and membership, or even directly to the list itself as
happened today. Instead, the first notice that any of us have had is
this declaration that there is deadline only 10 days away.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 19:10 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > 
> > I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
> > heard of this. I think that 10 days notice of such a radical change
> > is
> > not reasonable. Most people here, including myself, will have no
> > idea
> > what this is about.
> 
> poc - as a moderator of the list, do you see the "major burden in
> managing lists spam".  It's not the first time I've seen something be
> shutdown with an excuse of "the spam, the spam, we can't cope". 
> Surely
> spam tagging is a mature process these days.

Spam moderation is not a big problem on this list, mainly (I think)
because it's a subscriber-only list and spam is almost always trapped
by the list manager, both by checking membership and by using a
Bayesian filter. Moderators get notice of anything held for approval
and deal with it via a web interface, but it usually amounts to at most
2 or 3 cases per day, so not a big deal.

(This, by the way, is how non-member posts get to the list; a moderator
has to approve them). 

There are currently 3 moderators: myself, Andre Klapper and Adam Tauno
Williams. Note that we have no control over the actual list hosting,
i.e. we are not list admins.

I imagine the spam problem might be greater on some other lists,
especially those that accept posts from non-members.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list]

Dnia 20.10.2022 o godz. 22:58:33 Andrea Veri pisze:
> category, you can send an email to the applicati...@discourse.gnome.org
> email and it gets automatically posted to Discourse, like you do today with
> Mailman. In the background we can configure an automatic tag, that is
> whenever the Evolution or Evo (or anything you prefer) word is mentioned
> (similar to what happens today with Mailman list name tag on subjects) the
> "evolution" tag is automatically added to your thread, that eases
> consumption by your contributors which have watchers defined for the
> "evolution" tag.

No, this is not analogous to Mailman, because from your description I
understand that a particular tag is somewhat like an equivalent of a mailing
list. Watching the tag "evolution" would be equivalent to subscribing to an
Evolution mailing list. But you cannot send a mail message directly to a
tag, to start a new thread. What you describe as "automatic tag" is at most
a poor workaround that automatically assigns a tag to a message, based on
presence of particular word(s) in the subject. However that's not how
mailing lists work and you know this. Messages are sent to a mailing list
not based on presence of particular text in the subject (that's only an
additional feature of Mailman, that does not have to be used), but based on
the fact that they are sent to a particular email address. This is an
absolutely critical feature that is lacking here - at least from your
description.

If there is a possibility to associate a separate email address with each
tag, then this could probably replace a mailing list.
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Greg Oliver via evolution-list]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:58 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:

> Greg,
>
> nobody is requiring you to use a web forum, the only time where you need
> to use it is the first time where you'd be configuring the tag you want to
> watch, in this case the evolution one. Once that has happened you'll get
> all the notifications sent via mail and you'll be able to respond directly
> from within your mail client like you do today, for anyone not familiar
> with the tagging process:
>
> Tagging means adding a tag to a specific thread that is created to make
> sure it can easily be filtered out and most importantly it can easily be
> configured as a watcher (i.e the process that allows you to receive an
> email when a new email / response has been added to a thread). Our
> Discourse instance already has a tag called "evolution", which can be used
> to tag a specific thread at creation time (or later on in the process) to
> make sure it gets properly filtered for contributors that are only
> interested in mc conversations. Each Discourse category comes with an email
> endpoint, let's say you want to create a new thread under the Applications
> category, you can send an email to the applicati...@discourse.gnome.org
> email and it gets automatically posted to Discourse, like you do today with
> Mailman. In the background we can configure an automatic tag, that is
> whenever the Evolution or Evo (or anything you prefer) word is mentioned
> (similar to what happens today with Mailman list name tag on subjects) the
> "evolution" tag is automatically added to your thread, that eases
> consumption by your contributors which have watchers defined for the
> "evolution" tag.
>
> I'm more than happy to work with you guys to ease this transition. But
> please keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to use a web forum,
> Discourse (NOT Discord) can also work as a plain mailing list (please see
> Andre's mail [1] around this), so don't be alarmed.
>

OK, so scripting something to add the existing mail list users to Discourse
should be fairly simple, so none of us are required to go sign up, etc
elsewhere right?  I am a good scripter and would be willing to help with
that, but if I am forced to go sign up on some other web site, I think I
would just ditch it all.  Just let me know.



> Thanks,
>
> [1]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2022-October/msg00144.html
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:51 PM Greg Oliver 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:45 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
>>
>>> And it seems I forgot both [1] and [2], there you go.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html
>>> [2]
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
>>>
>>
>> I have to agree with Pete - there were no notifications to this list
>> until {to|yester}day...  Also in agreement - I will no visit an web forum.
>> Been using Evo as far as I can remember running Linux - early 2k - hate to
>> drop this off my mailing lists..  I am on a huge amount of lists because
>> like it has been mentioned, they are easy to peruse..  Make me go to a web
>> page, which then has topics with sub-topics, etc and you will lose me (even
>> if I am unimportant to the project).
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
>>>
 Pete,

 what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has
 been communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and [2],
 but what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list mentioning
 we're switching to *Discord*, or others not even understanding Discourse
 has the same mailing list workflow that you have today but has some sugar
 added on top for people who like web forums and other features Discourse
 provides. I'm not forcing you to remain, but I'd appreciate you trying to
 recreate your workflow in Discourse: that is totally possible and I can
 work with you and any other stakeholder to make sure that happens.

 There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an
 exception from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case you
 want some more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just give
 Discourse a try. But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for
 the sake of doing so and without having even tried using the new tool.

 Thanks,

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:24 PM Pete Biggs  wrote:

> Andrea -
>
> I hope you are following the Evolution list.  You certainly haven't
> been "communicating" anything to the Evolution list about this until
> now and it is the first that most people know about it.
>
> It's really disappointing to see you close down a mailing list that has
> been active and useful for 20 years with just a few days notice. That's
> not really good "community engagement".
>
> It seems really bizarre that 

Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list]

Dnia 20.10.2022 o godz. 22:43:11 Andrea Veri pisze:
> But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for the sake of doing
> so and without having even tried using the new tool.

They say, "the better is an enemy of the good"...

Or in other words, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"...
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andrea Veri]

Greg,

nobody is requiring you to use a web forum, the only time where you need to
use it is the first time where you'd be configuring the tag you want to
watch, in this case the evolution one. Once that has happened you'll get
all the notifications sent via mail and you'll be able to respond directly
from within your mail client like you do today, for anyone not familiar
with the tagging process:

Tagging means adding a tag to a specific thread that is created to make
sure it can easily be filtered out and most importantly it can easily be
configured as a watcher (i.e the process that allows you to receive an
email when a new email / response has been added to a thread). Our
Discourse instance already has a tag called "evolution", which can be used
to tag a specific thread at creation time (or later on in the process) to
make sure it gets properly filtered for contributors that are only
interested in mc conversations. Each Discourse category comes with an email
endpoint, let's say you want to create a new thread under the Applications
category, you can send an email to the applicati...@discourse.gnome.org
email and it gets automatically posted to Discourse, like you do today with
Mailman. In the background we can configure an automatic tag, that is
whenever the Evolution or Evo (or anything you prefer) word is mentioned
(similar to what happens today with Mailman list name tag on subjects) the
"evolution" tag is automatically added to your thread, that eases
consumption by your contributors which have watchers defined for the
"evolution" tag.

I'm more than happy to work with you guys to ease this transition. But
please keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to use a web forum,
Discourse (NOT Discord) can also work as a plain mailing list (please see
Andre's mail [1] around this), so don't be alarmed.

Thanks,

[1]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2022-October/msg00144.html


On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:51 PM Greg Oliver  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:45 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
>
>> And it seems I forgot both [1] and [2], there you go.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html
>> [2]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
>>
>
> I have to agree with Pete - there were no notifications to this list until
> {to|yester}day...  Also in agreement - I will no visit an web forum.  Been
> using Evo as far as I can remember running Linux - early 2k - hate to drop
> this off my mailing lists..  I am on a huge amount of lists because like it
> has been mentioned, they are easy to peruse..  Make me go to a web page,
> which then has topics with sub-topics, etc and you will lose me (even if I
> am unimportant to the project).
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
>>
>>> Pete,
>>>
>>> what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has
>>> been communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and [2],
>>> but what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list mentioning
>>> we're switching to *Discord*, or others not even understanding Discourse
>>> has the same mailing list workflow that you have today but has some sugar
>>> added on top for people who like web forums and other features Discourse
>>> provides. I'm not forcing you to remain, but I'd appreciate you trying to
>>> recreate your workflow in Discourse: that is totally possible and I can
>>> work with you and any other stakeholder to make sure that happens.
>>>
>>> There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an
>>> exception from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case you
>>> want some more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just give
>>> Discourse a try. But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for
>>> the sake of doing so and without having even tried using the new tool.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:24 PM Pete Biggs  wrote:
>>>
 Andrea -

 I hope you are following the Evolution list.  You certainly haven't
 been "communicating" anything to the Evolution list about this until
 now and it is the first that most people know about it.

 It's really disappointing to see you close down a mailing list that has
 been active and useful for 20 years with just a few days notice. That's
 not really good "community engagement".

 It seems really bizarre that you are getting rid of a mailing list for
 a mail client.

 I know the attitude will be "tough, they'll get over it", but it's not
 going to win over the hearts and minds of your constituency.

 Pete


 On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
 > Mailman platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major
 > burden in managing lists spam). The deadline is currently 

Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:23 -0500, Tim McConnell wrote:
> 
> "even if some Evo users willingly choose to use Redhat." durn
> Sadomasochists. 

Tim, this is uncalled for. Please take trolling somewhere else.

> But all joking aside, they're (GNOME) really end this list? Oh WTFF??
> I've been using this list since before Fedora came out and they can't
> just use Python3? Really?! Of all the options I do like moving the
> list
> to another place if GNOME is going to use Discord or even worse
> Reddit.

Did you read the text? It's not "Discord" but Discourse. The difference
could also be spotted by taking a look at it before sending a reply.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Greg Oliver via evolution-list]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:45 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:

> And it seems I forgot both [1] and [2], there you go.
>
> [1]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html
> [2]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
>

I have to agree with Pete - there were no notifications to this list until
{to|yester}day...  Also in agreement - I will no visit an web forum.  Been
using Evo as far as I can remember running Linux - early 2k - hate to drop
this off my mailing lists..  I am on a huge amount of lists because like it
has been mentioned, they are easy to peruse..  Make me go to a web page,
which then has topics with sub-topics, etc and you will lose me (even if I
am unimportant to the project).

-Greg



> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:
>
>> Pete,
>>
>> what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has
>> been communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and [2],
>> but what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list mentioning
>> we're switching to *Discord*, or others not even understanding Discourse
>> has the same mailing list workflow that you have today but has some sugar
>> added on top for people who like web forums and other features Discourse
>> provides. I'm not forcing you to remain, but I'd appreciate you trying to
>> recreate your workflow in Discourse: that is totally possible and I can
>> work with you and any other stakeholder to make sure that happens.
>>
>> There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an
>> exception from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case you
>> want some more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just give
>> Discourse a try. But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for
>> the sake of doing so and without having even tried using the new tool.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:24 PM Pete Biggs  wrote:
>>
>>> Andrea -
>>>
>>> I hope you are following the Evolution list.  You certainly haven't
>>> been "communicating" anything to the Evolution list about this until
>>> now and it is the first that most people know about it.
>>>
>>> It's really disappointing to see you close down a mailing list that has
>>> been active and useful for 20 years with just a few days notice. That's
>>> not really good "community engagement".
>>>
>>> It seems really bizarre that you are getting rid of a mailing list for
>>> a mail client.
>>>
>>> I know the attitude will be "tough, they'll get over it", but it's not
>>> going to win over the hearts and minds of your constituency.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
>>> > Mailman platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major
>>> > burden in managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the
>>> > end of October 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate
>>> > to GNOME's Discourse instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set
>>> > of tags you can re-use to initiate a new topic in the new platform,
>>> > if a tag is missing please reach out to me directly.
>>> >
>>> > Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can
>>> > follow [3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to
>>> > Discourse. The new platform supports several login methods including
>>> > your GNOME Account and other major OpenID providers.
>>> >
>>> > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain
>>> > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used
>>> > behind an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup
>>> > but on Discourse instead.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies,
>>> > the deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two
>>> > depending how soon those changes will be made available in DL
>>> > codebase
>>> >
>>> > [1] https://discourse.gnome.org
>>> > [2]
>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg
>>> > 00018.html
>>> > [3]
>>> > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discours
>>> > e/11534/5
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > evolution-list mailing list
>>> > evolution-list@gnome.org
>>> > To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Andrea
>>
>> Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
>> GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
>> Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
>> GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman
>>
>> Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Andrea
>
> Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
> GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
> Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
> GNOME 

Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 18:39 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> If so, then the GNOME project should stop providing an email client at
> all.

Errm, no. Just because people want to do something doesn't mean "GNOME"
(whatever that means exactly) needs to do the same something.
There were GNOME applications for watching TV or listening to internet
radio stations. That doesn't mean GNOME should launch its own station.

For the records, GNOME Core does not provide an email client.[1] 
GNOME World however provides several ones, like Evolution or Geary.[2]

Cheers,
andre

[1]
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/-/tree/master/elements/core
[2]
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/-/tree/master/elements/world
-- 
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andrea Veri]

And it seems I forgot both [1] and [2], there you go.

[1]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html
[2]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrea Veri  wrote:

> Pete,
>
> what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has been
> communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and [2], but
> what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list mentioning we're
> switching to *Discord*, or others not even understanding Discourse has the
> same mailing list workflow that you have today but has some sugar added on
> top for people who like web forums and other features Discourse provides.
> I'm not forcing you to remain, but I'd appreciate you trying to
> recreate your workflow in Discourse: that is totally possible and I can
> work with you and any other stakeholder to make sure that happens.
>
> There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an
> exception from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case you
> want some more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just give
> Discourse a try. But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for
> the sake of doing so and without having even tried using the new tool.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:24 PM Pete Biggs  wrote:
>
>> Andrea -
>>
>> I hope you are following the Evolution list.  You certainly haven't
>> been "communicating" anything to the Evolution list about this until
>> now and it is the first that most people know about it.
>>
>> It's really disappointing to see you close down a mailing list that has
>> been active and useful for 20 years with just a few days notice. That's
>> not really good "community engagement".
>>
>> It seems really bizarre that you are getting rid of a mailing list for
>> a mail client.
>>
>> I know the attitude will be "tough, they'll get over it", but it's not
>> going to win over the hearts and minds of your constituency.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
>> > Mailman platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major
>> > burden in managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the
>> > end of October 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate
>> > to GNOME's Discourse instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set
>> > of tags you can re-use to initiate a new topic in the new platform,
>> > if a tag is missing please reach out to me directly.
>> >
>> > Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can
>> > follow [3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to
>> > Discourse. The new platform supports several login methods including
>> > your GNOME Account and other major OpenID providers.
>> >
>> > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain
>> > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used
>> > behind an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup
>> > but on Discourse instead.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies,
>> > the deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two
>> > depending how soon those changes will be made available in DL
>> > codebase
>> >
>> > [1] https://discourse.gnome.org
>> > [2]
>> > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg
>> > 00018.html
>> > [3]
>> > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discours
>> > e/11534/5
>> >
>> > ___
>> > evolution-list mailing list
>> > evolution-list@gnome.org
>> > To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
>>
>>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Andrea
>
> Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
> GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
> Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
> GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman
>
> Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it
>


-- 
Cheers,
Andrea

Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman

Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andrea Veri]

Pete,

what you're saying is a honestly a bit unfair, lists decommission has been
communicated multiple times over the past few months, see [1] and [2], but
what's even more discouraging is seeing users on your list mentioning we're
switching to *Discord*, or others not even understanding Discourse has the
same mailing list workflow that you have today but has some sugar added on
top for people who like web forums and other features Discourse provides.
I'm not forcing you to remain, but I'd appreciate you trying to
recreate your workflow in Discourse: that is totally possible and I can
work with you and any other stakeholder to make sure that happens.

There's a subset of lists (the l10n ones) which have requested an exception
from October's deadline, we can surely offer that in case you want some
more time in order to migrate somewhere else or just give Discourse a try.
But please, very please, let's just stop complaining for the sake of doing
so and without having even tried using the new tool.

Thanks,

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:24 PM Pete Biggs  wrote:

> Andrea -
>
> I hope you are following the Evolution list.  You certainly haven't
> been "communicating" anything to the Evolution list about this until
> now and it is the first that most people know about it.
>
> It's really disappointing to see you close down a mailing list that has
> been active and useful for 20 years with just a few days notice. That's
> not really good "community engagement".
>
> It seems really bizarre that you are getting rid of a mailing list for
> a mail client.
>
> I know the attitude will be "tough, they'll get over it", but it's not
> going to win over the hearts and minds of your constituency.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
> > Mailman platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major
> > burden in managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the
> > end of October 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate
> > to GNOME's Discourse instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set
> > of tags you can re-use to initiate a new topic in the new platform,
> > if a tag is missing please reach out to me directly.
> >
> > Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can
> > follow [3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to
> > Discourse. The new platform supports several login methods including
> > your GNOME Account and other major OpenID providers.
> >
> > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain
> > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used
> > behind an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup
> > but on Discourse instead.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies,
> > the deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two
> > depending how soon those changes will be made available in DL
> > codebase
> >
> > [1] https://discourse.gnome.org
> > [2]
> > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg
> > 00018.html
> > [3]
> > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discours
> > e/11534/5
> >
> > ___
> > evolution-list mailing list
> > evolution-list@gnome.org
> > To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
>
>

-- 
Cheers,
Andrea

Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman

Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Dan Kortschak via evolution-list]

What a short-sighted decision.

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
> Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate to GNOME's Discourse
> instance [1].

Discourse is an awful way to deal with thing long-term discussions
which are often a feature of things here.

This is very disappointing.

Dan

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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Steve Litt]

Matt Connell said on Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:33:56 -0400

>On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 11:38 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Could somebody with space, bandwidth and tech knowledge please set
>> up an Evolution mailing list that has nothing with Gnome? I know
>> that a $100/year account with Futurequest.com gives you a
>> rudimentary mailing list: I'm not sure how well it would handle the
>> load of the Evolution community, but maybe somebody can find out.
>> Perhaps the Gnome project would be willing to spend a couple hundred
>> bucks a year to "outsource" the Evolution mailing list.  
>
>If futurequest's features will fit the bill, I'll fund it myself in
>full.

I'll chip in $10 USD per year, so you won't be funding it all by
yourself. I really appreciate this, Matt!

>
>Heck, I will help fund or maintain whatever alternative mailing list is
>found to be suitable for this purpose.  I've never hosted/maintained a
>mailing list but this one is too valuable to be allowed to go quietly
>into the night.

I can help you technologically with the Futurequest mailing list, as I
once created one. It's kind of stone age, but beggars can't be
choosers. I might be able to help you with regular mailman lists, at
least to some extent. Please save my email address in case we need to
communicate. 

Thanks,

SteveT



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SteveT

Steve Litt 
Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Paul Smith]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 19:29 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> I had assumed it would be something like that. But what is the header
> that controls it

I believe that checkbox adds this email header:

  Importance: high
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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Pete Biggs]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 14:21 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 19:17 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > That announcement email seems to have been automatically tagged as
> > "important" on my systems (Evo 3.44.4).  I've noticed it happening
> > before but largely ignored it.  What is doing it? Is it a general
> > "feature" of something in Evolution or is it something I've set up or
> > configured.  I certainly can't see what's doing it.
> 
> If I understand what you're talking about, the *sender* chooses to mark
> the email as "important".  You don't do anything.
> 
> In the newfangled Evo interface if you look on the title bar of the
> composer window, on the right there's a little email icon with an
> exclamation mark in it.  If you hover it says "Set the message priority
> to high".  If you click it it will mean that your message is marked
> with high priority when the recipients receive it, however their MUA's
> choose to make that visible.

I had assumed it would be something like that. But what is the header
that controls it - all I can see is "Precedence: list".  It's annoying
because I use the "Flag" to indicate things that I need to deal with
and the "important" comes up as the same colour.

P.
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Tim McConnell via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:27 -0400, Jim Popovitch via evolution-list
wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 16:40 +0200, Torsten Krah via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, dem 20.10.2022 um 13:01 +0100 schrieb Patrick
> > O'Callaghan:
> > > I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first
> > > I've
> > > 
> > > heard of this.
> > 
> > Me too and if you have a look at the top level site:
> > 
> > https://mail.gnome.org/
> > 
> > There is no sign that they are going to retire this at all (if I am
> > not
> > mistaken and missed it).
> 
> Further to that point, down at the bottom of that page is a link for
> "Who should I contact if I have a problem with any of the mailing
> lists?" which is a dead link to
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Sysadmin/MailingLists
> 
> So maybe the writing was on the wall for a while now.
> 
> I could host a new mailing list for evolution users, but I wonder if
> something like evolution-us...@lists.debian.org would be a better
> place
> even if some Evo users willingly choose to use Redhat. :P
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> evolution-list@gnome.org
> To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

"even if some Evo users willingly choose to use Redhat." durn
Sadomasochists. 
But all joking aside, they're (GNOME) really end this list? Oh WTFF??
I've been using this list since before Fedora came out and they can't
just use Python3? Really?! Of all the options I do like moving the list
to another place if GNOME is going to use Discord or even worse Reddit.
IIRC channels I never use to be honest (I loathe chat programs). So if
Debian is willing to let you use them as a mailing list then please
move there. Don't let this list die. PLEASE!! 
-- 
Tim McConnell 
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Re: [Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Paul Smith]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 19:17 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> That announcement email seems to have been automatically tagged as
> "important" on my systems (Evo 3.44.4).  I've noticed it happening
> before but largely ignored it.  What is doing it? Is it a general
> "feature" of something in Evolution or is it something I've set up or
> configured.  I certainly can't see what's doing it.

If I understand what you're talking about, the *sender* chooses to mark
the email as "important".  You don't do anything.

In the newfangled Evo interface if you look on the title bar of the
composer window, on the right there's a little email icon with an
exclamation mark in it.  If you hover it says "Set the message priority
to high".  If you click it it will mean that your message is marked
with high priority when the recipients receive it, however their MUA's
choose to make that visible.
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[Evolution] Automatic tagging as "important"

[Pete Biggs]

While I can still ask the list ...

That announcement email seems to have been automatically tagged as
"important" on my systems (Evo 3.44.4).  I've noticed it happening
before but largely ignored it.  What is doing it? Is it a general
"feature" of something in Evolution or is it something I've set up or
configured.  I certainly can't see what's doing it.

More importantly, how can I stop it happening - I want to be the
arbiter of what's important!

P.

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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 11:38 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> If not, could you at least set up an IRC channel for Evolution on libera.chat?

No, because an IRC channel on GIMPnet IRC called #evolution has already
existed for decades and has been part of the user documentation for at
least a decade. No need for such proposals and more fragmentation.

And that IRC channel is bridged to Matrix/Element for those who prefer
an interaction concept not limited to text only.
(Note to any readers: No, if Matrix is good or bad is NOT the topic of
this thread and off-topic here.)

Cheers,
andre
-- 
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https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
> heard of this. I think that 10 days notice of such a radical change is
> not reasonable. Most people here, including myself, will have no idea
> what this is about.

poc - as a moderator of the list, do you see the "major burden in
managing lists spam".  It's not the first time I've seen something be
shutdown with an excuse of "the spam, the spam, we can't cope".  Surely
spam tagging is a mature process these days.


P.

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:47 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> 
> 
> If this is real, then the "communicating" has been sadly lacking. This
> is the first I've heard of it.

Just for the records, mailing list resources (as linking to the related
threads on Discourse would probably be a bit too ironic):

* Announcement: 
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2022-August/msg3.html
* Previous thread: 
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2020-September/msg00018.html

Yes, I do know these aren't lists to which everyone not more involved
in GNOME would necessarily be subscribed.

Cheers,
andre
-- 
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 11:38 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> They suggest I use discourse and will (somehow) give me tags to use
> it. I tried discourse once: It's inscrutable. I have no idea how to
> use tags.

Receiving notifications about Evolution related threads in Discourse:
   1. Go to Notifications Tags
  at https://discourse.gnome.org/my/preferences/tags
   2. Add "evolution" under "Watched" or "Tracked" (depends on how 
  many notifications you want to get)
Docs: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/tags-and-watching/94

How to interact with Discourse via email:
https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46

Docs about personal notification settings:
https://discourse.gnome.org/my/preferences/notifications

Cheers,
andre

-- 
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https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:27 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > https://mail.gnome.org/
> > 
> > There is no sign that they are going to retire this at all (if I am
> > not
> > mistaken and missed it).
> 
> Further to that point, down at the bottom of that page is a link for
> "Who should I contact if I have a problem with any of the mailing
> lists?" which is a dead link to
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Sysadmin/MailingLists

That should link to
https://wiki.gnome.org/Infrastructure/MailingLists resp
https://wiki.gnome.org/Infrastructure/Contact
(not sure I want to spend time to patch that, though...).

Cheers,
andre
-- 
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Jim Popovitch via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:27 -0400, Jim Popovitch via evolution-list
wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 16:40 +0200, Torsten Krah via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, dem 20.10.2022 um 13:01 +0100 schrieb Patrick
> > O'Callaghan:
> > > I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
> > > 
> > > heard of this.
> > 
> > Me too and if you have a look at the top level site:
> > 
> > https://mail.gnome.org/
> > 
> > There is no sign that they are going to retire this at all (if I am not
> > mistaken and missed it).
> 
> Further to that point, down at the bottom of that page is a link for
> "Who should I contact if I have a problem with any of the mailing
> lists?" which is a dead link to
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Sysadmin/MailingLists
> 
> So maybe the writing was on the wall for a while now.
> 
> I could host a new mailing list for evolution users, but I wonder if
> something like evolution-us...@lists.debian.org would be a better place
> even if some Evo users willingly choose to use Redhat. :P
> 

Just realized my above email was sent via a personal account because
that's what I used when signing up here.   I run domainmail.org, a free
virtual domain mailing list service for those that need such a thing,
one list in particular is SDLU which is specific to spam fighting (which
seems to be a problem for gnome.org). If someone at Gnome wants to shoot
me an email, I could easily and freely host mail.gnome.org for them on
Mailman v2.x.  The smooth process would be a few DNS changes and a rsync
of the current lists archive+settings to my system.

-Jim P.


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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list]

Hi,

an email client community needs a mailing list, not a WhatsApp group or
a forum or an IRC channel.

Evolution is an email client, but emails aren't good enough for
communication related to the email client?

If so, then the GNOME project should stop providing an email client at
all.

The end of the month is in 11 days. It's impossible to find a
replacement for Evolution within 11 days, but I can't take an email
client without a user mailing list seriously.

The reason to install an email client is to communicate by emails, not
to communicate by using a web browser or a messenger.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Matt Connell]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 11:38 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> Could somebody with space, bandwidth and tech knowledge please set up an 
> Evolution
> mailing list that has nothing with Gnome? I know that a $100/year account with
> Futurequest.com gives you a rudimentary mailing list: I'm not sure how well 
> it would
> handle the load of the Evolution community, but maybe somebody can find out. 
> Perhaps
> the Gnome project would be willing to spend a couple hundred bucks a year to
> "outsource" the Evolution mailing list.

If futurequest's features will fit the bill, I'll fund it myself in
full.

Heck, I will help fund or maintain whatever alternative mailing list is
found to be suitable for this purpose.  I've never hosted/maintained a
mailing list but this one is too valuable to be allowed to go quietly
into the night.
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Matt Connell]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:47 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> If this is real, then the "communicating" has been sadly lacking. This
> is the first I've heard of it.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I find "Forum" type things, which I believe is what
> Discourse is, not at all intuitive and I hate dealing with them. Is
> there to be no way of contributing sensibly using email - yes, I've
> read the post from "Jehan" - it looks like it's a distinct kludge to
> interact with it via email.

I echo what Pete has to say here.

I, for one, will not be using a Discourse forum.  The entire appeal of
a mailing list is the ability to digest and handle messages as I
please, not to fiddle around in a web page trying to find what I'm
looking for.

Ten days notice when even the mailing list moderator is unaware is not
in any way reasonable.  It is a clear sign that this issue has not,
despite assertions to the contrary, been discussed properly.
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Jim Popovitch via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 16:40 +0200, Torsten Krah via evolution-list
wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, dem 20.10.2022 um 13:01 +0100 schrieb Patrick
> O'Callaghan:
> > I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
> > 
> > heard of this.
> 
> Me too and if you have a look at the top level site:
> 
> https://mail.gnome.org/
> 
> There is no sign that they are going to retire this at all (if I am not
> mistaken and missed it).

Further to that point, down at the bottom of that page is a link for
"Who should I contact if I have a problem with any of the mailing
lists?" which is a dead link to
https://wiki.gnome.org/Sysadmin/MailingLists

So maybe the writing was on the wall for a while now.

I could host a new mailing list for evolution users, but I wonder if
something like evolution-us...@lists.debian.org would be a better place
even if some Evo users willingly choose to use Redhat. :P

-Jim P.



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Re: [Evolution] What do I do now?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 11:38 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> If we don't all find an alternate way to communicate with each other
> during October,
> many of us will be unable to use discourse (does it depend on systemd
> or pulseaudio,
> for instance, because I don't have those, don't want them, and I'm
> not alone).

It's a web page and doesn't depend on anything as far as I know.

Not that that should be regarded as a recommendation in any shape or
form.

poc
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[Evolution] What do I do now?

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

I just received the dreaded message that this mailing list will vanish at the 
end of
October 2022. They blame it on python2 deprecation and "major burden in
managing lists spam", which sounds like the hollowest ever excuse to me. Nobody 
else
is dropping their mailing lists because of python2 deprecation. They suggest I 
use
discourse and will (somehow) give me tags to use it. I tried discourse once: 
It's
inscrutable. I have no idea how to use tags.

So how do I get support for Evolution? How do I communicate with all of you? 

Could somebody with space, bandwidth and tech knowledge please set up an 
Evolution
mailing list that has nothing with Gnome? I know that a $100/year account with
Futurequest.com gives you a rudimentary mailing list: I'm not sure how well it 
would
handle the load of the Evolution community, but maybe somebody can find out. 
Perhaps
the Gnome project would be willing to spend a couple hundred bucks a year to
"outsource" the Evolution mailing list.


If not, could you at least set up an IRC channel for Evolution on libera.chat? 
It
does no good to set it up on a Gnome resource, because Gnome now has a history 
of
pulling the rug out on their projects. It's very simple to set up an IRC 
channel on
libera.chat.

If we don't all find an alternate way to communicate with each other during 
October,
many of us will be unable to use discourse (does it depend on systemd or 
pulseaudio,
for instance, because I don't have those, don't want them, and I'm not alone).
Lacking a way to get help, I fear most of us will need to abandon Evolution. 
What
good is software if you can't get help on it?

SteveT

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Torsten Krah via evolution-list]

Am Donnerstag, dem 20.10.2022 um 13:01 +0100 schrieb Patrick
O'Callaghan:
> I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
> 
> heard of this.

Me too and if you have a look at the top level site:

https://mail.gnome.org/

There is no sign that they are going to retire this at all (if I am not
mistaken and missed it).

kind regards

Torsten

-- 


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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[George N. Reeke]

>  This unrequested change makes me sceptical about the
> > 
> > community's future.
> 
> Second that - discourse is not my cup of tea - I hope there will be
> an
> alternative list eventually.
> 
Adding my negs on discourse and support for a new email venue
in case it might help.
George Reeke
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Milan Crha via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:01 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> If there is a well-supported mailing list alternative, I will use
> that.

Hi,
I cannot speak of the "well-supported" side of the thing, I only know
of two public places.

One is:
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/
it's a place where SyncEvolution project moved to semi-recently.

The other one is:
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/
that's what libical uses for a long time.

How to get onboard on either of the two I do not know. I've basically
no idea about their internals, I only know they exist. There might be
also other alternatives, of course.

The main downside is that it'll not be @gnome.org anymore, thus, maybe,
harder to find for the users.
Bye,
Milan

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Torsten Krah via evolution-list]

Am Donnerstag, dem 20.10.2022 um 13:01 +0100 schrieb Patrick
O'Callaghan:
>  This unrequested change makes me sceptical about the
> 
> community's future.

Second that - discourse is not my cup of tea - I hope there will be an
alternative list eventually.

-- 


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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 12:47 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> If this is real, then the "communicating" has been sadly lacking.
> This is the first I've heard of it.

I've been seeing these communications on other lists for quite some
time.

> 20 years of helping the Evolution community and it looks like it's
> the end.

Yep, same.  Discourse is a dreadful user experience.  I've tried
replying, I believe I ended up blocked for some reason.  I gave up.

It's Internet 3.0 or something,  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
> Mailman
> platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major burden
> in
> managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the end of
> October
> 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate to GNOME's
> Discourse
> instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set of tags you can re-
> use to
> initiate a new topic in the new platform, if a tag is missing please
> reach
> out to me directly.
> 
> Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can
> follow
> [3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to Discourse.
> The new
> platform supports several login methods including your GNOME Account
> and
> other major OpenID providers.
> 
> After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain
> alive
> in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used behind
> an
> alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup but on
> Discourse
> instead.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies,
> the
> deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two
> depending
> how soon those changes will be made available in DL codebase
> 
> [1] https://discourse.gnome.org
> [2]
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
> [3]
> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discourse/11534/5

I am a moderator of the Evolution list, and this is the first I've
heard of this. I think that 10 days notice of such a radical change is
not reasonable. Most people here, including myself, will have no idea
what this is about.

Personally, I detest web forums. If there is a well-supported mailing
list alternative, I will use that. However the link referenced above
look very much like a kludge and I doubt I'll be able to help list
users who may have problems with it, if in fact there is even a
continuing "moderator" role in this new system.

The Evolution list has been a useful resource for its user community
for many years. This unrequested change makes me sceptical about the
community's future. I hope I'm wrong.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's
> Mailman platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major
> burden in managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the
> end of October 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate
> to GNOME's Discourse instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set
> of tags you can re-use to initiate a new topic in the new platform,
> if a tag is missing please reach out to me directly.

If this is real, then the "communicating" has been sadly lacking. This
is the first I've heard of it.


I'm sorry, but I find "Forum" type things, which I believe is what
Discourse is, not at all intuitive and I hate dealing with them. Is
there to be no way of contributing sensibly using email - yes, I've
read the post from "Jehan" - it looks like it's a distinct kludge to
interact with it via email.

20 years of helping the Evolution community and it looks like it's the
end.

P.

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[Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Andrea Veri]

Hi,

As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's Mailman
platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major burden in
managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the end of October
2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate to GNOME's Discourse
instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set of tags you can re-use to
initiate a new topic in the new platform, if a tag is missing please reach
out to me directly.

Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can follow
[3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to Discourse. The new
platform supports several login methods including your GNOME Account and
other major OpenID providers.

After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain alive
in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used behind an
alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup but on Discourse
instead.

Thanks,

P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies, the
deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two depending
how soon those changes will be made available in DL codebase

[1] https://discourse.gnome.org
[2]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html
[3]
https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discourse/11534/5

-- 
Cheers,
Andrea

Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat,
GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator,
Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary,
GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman

Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it
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