Re: aiglx
Vitor Domingos wrote: Is AIGLX going to appear on FC5? I've test it with ATI RADEON 7000, with all the hacks that's on the wiki page, and it's too dam slow Some of the pieces are already integrated. See the section on technical details for the current status. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx. Since the features are not enabled by default, yet performance shouldnt be much of a concern for FC5. Reports with hardware details and benchmarks would be quite useful to fine tune it I guess. -- Rahul
Re: aiglx
Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: Vitor Domingos wrote: Is AIGLX going to appear on FC5? I've test it with ATI RADEON 7000, with all the hacks that's on the wiki page, and it's too dam slow Some of the pieces are already integrated. See the section on technical details for the current status. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx. Since the features are not enabled by default, yet performance shouldnt be much of a concern for FC5. Reports with hardware details and benchmarks would be quite useful to fine tune it I guess. Is the integrated compositing manager in metacity also supposed to work with the regular Xorg shipped with FC5 (ie as a replacement for xcompmgr) or only with the AIGLX enabled version? The regular Xorg server is getting all the patches for AIGLX merged into it. Meanwhile the compositing manager is metacity can work in tandem or without it. -- Rahul
Re: aiglx
Benjy Grogan wrote: Isn't Red Hat forking the accelerated GL community by working on AIGLX instead of Xgl? It seems like Xgl is to AIGLX as SELinux is to AppArmor. The analogy here seems to be off the mark since AIGLX and SELinux has been developed in the open right from the start unlike AppArmor and XGL and unlike security frameworks such as SELinux, there are different approaches you can experiment with in a budding development of accelerated interfaces without any fundamental forks. You might want to read the FAQ at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx on doing incremental updates in comparison to whole sale rewrites of a X server. The media likes to paint black and white situations of X vs Y while there is also a code sharing between XGL and AIGLX going on. http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=178 http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-February/013326.html -- Rahul
Re: Hotplug: no more fstab entries
Bill Nottingham wrote: This is all documented in the release notes, right? If you think it's necessary.. feel free to add it. I really think we could use one. Bill Available at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView. Will be in the overview section in the FC5 release notes in the ISO images. -- Rahul
Wild cry for package documentation
Hi, I send out a note to https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-March/msg00120.html to document packages in Fedora Extras is a better way when the installation or configuration procedures are non obvious and we are seeing changes such as the Games Special Interest Group (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Games) tackling http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Games . I would like to see that happen for Fedora Core packages too. Use the fedora wiki whenever you can. We can publish them formally in Fedora if required. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject On a related note all the RHEL documentation is being relicensed to OPL to match the new Fedora documentation licensing requirement and thereby pushing in tons of nice documentation available soon for Fedora not to mention less duplication of work. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-February/msg00110.html -- -- Rahul
Re: Evince claims pdf password protected
Hans Kristian Rosbach wrote: Opening http://www.highpoint-tech.com/manuals/BIOS%20Update%20User%20Manual.pdf in Document Viewer (Evince) fails and it clams it is password protected. If I open it using Xpdf it works just fine. File can be found at http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/bios_rr1820a.htm link is known as BIOS User Manual. I used Firefox. Similar issue with http://www.acm.org/usacm/weblog/wp-content/DRM.pdf. Related article with comments at http://lwn.net/Articles/174448/. -- Rahul
Re: FC5 Final Release
Sadda Teh wrote: Is FC5 still on schedule to be release March 15th? Thanks. Yes it is. -- Rahul
Re: FC5 Final Release
Hans Kristian Rosbach wrote: On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 12:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Sadda Teh wrote: Is FC5 still on schedule to be release March 15th? Thanks. Yes it is. Just a general question.. Will anaconda not display estimated disk usage when customizing package choices anymore? I have found the estimate quite important sometimes when installing on machines with little disk and a user that wants all the bling. No biggie, I'll just miss it. I think this feature got dropped when Anaconda got revamped to use yum as a dependency resolver. Not sure if its being added back now. -- Rahul
Re: FC5 Final Release
Ivan Gyurdiev wrote: I also have heard nothing from the Xorg bugzilla regarding making the nv driver work: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=182396 The information requested from you needs to be supplied on this report. It was supplied... in the freedesktop bugzilla. M. Harris said I should communicate directly with upstream (though upstream doesn't seem to be communicating back). Ok. Thanks for bringing this up. I have marked it as a blocker so that it doesnt get lost. Then there's the minor inconvenience of gnome-netstatus being broken with my atheros chip: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=179406 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=181861 madwifi drivers arent providing in Fedora so this one doesnt seem like a blocker to me. I wouldn't call any bug in the netstatus applet a blocker, but it's not nice that there's no response from the maintainer. Just a matter of priority when hundreds of reports flow through every day. Please be patient. -- Rahul
Re: rawhide report: 20060308 changes
Ralf Ertzinger wrote: Hi. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:26:05 -0500, Build System wrote: - use an assigned uid/gid, do not loop over user ids looking for a free one I have often wondered why useradd does not have built in support for stuff like this. From time to time I'd like to do something like add a user, I do not care about the UID, but it has to be larger than X (and, optionally, less than Y). Useradd has -r and groupadd has -r and -g options in Fedora/RHEL to do similar things. check the man page for them for additional details. Does that serve your purpose? -- Rahul
Re: rawhide report: 20060308 changes
David Nielsen wrote: rhythmbox-0.9.3.1-3 --- * Wed Mar 08 2006 Ray Strode rstr...@redhat.com - 0.9.3.1-3 - fix icon on notification bubbles (bug 183720) - patch from CVS to escape bubble markup, found by Bill Nottingham Well there goes the wasted effort of filing: #184361 and #184360 5 mins before the rawhide messages of the day. Oh the joys of a rawhide rider. Thanks for reporting them anyway. -- Rahul
Re: dropdown menu's
Erwin Rol wrote: Hey all, This is something that already bothers me a while, i think it never really worked as expected, but i am not sure if it is a my machine only kind of problem. Dropdown menu's that don't fit on the screen are not displayed correctly. For example take the gimp file-open dialog. When you move the dialog to the bottom border of the screen, and press the All Files dropdown menu, the menu will open, and the bottom of the menu will be aligned with the bottom of the screen, the top of the menu will be somewhere mid screen. But the first entry will be at the location of the position of the dropdown box, and so everything above that position is empty. I tried to make a screenshot, but that didn't work with the dropdown box open, i suggest to just try it. Since it happens with every GTK application, it smells like an GTK issue. Being fixed in GTK 2.10 FYI http://inverted-tree.livejournal.com/49201.html. -- Rahul
Re: Qt 4 RPM and pkg-config problem
Paul F. Johnson wrote: Hi, Oh, Paul F.J., did you get around to add this RPM to Extras? (can't find the bugzilla entry in case you did) Is it worth putting Qt4 into extras as it's sooner or later going to be in core? I have no problem submitting it, just don't want to duplicate effort. Its quite good to get a package submitted and reviewed in Fedora Extras even when its destined to be in Fedora Core later. It increases the quality of the packages, helps get some early feedback and so on. -- Rahul
Re: New /etc/services for testing available
Bill Crawford wrote: I'd really suggest instead making a poll of what people would find useful. There are going to be a lot of things in there that will probably never be useful, e.g. 2545 sis-emt is one I registered, and I'm pretty sure is now unused, or certainly of only very limited use. Just a thought. Whats the harm in having them there though? -- Rahul
Re: other annoyances before fc5
Thomas J. Baker wrote: I filed this back on Feb 23rd https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=182653 Thanks. Somehow missed it in my queries. Is this still reproducible for you? -- Rahul
Re: Re-view FC5 hardware requirements for GNOME
Kevin Verma wrote: Hello, Quoting on the subject, I had gone through a review article for Gnome 2.14 and I began wondering if FC5 release notes should mention a reviewed hardware requirement for GNOME 2.14 based desktop installations, as per the facts delivered in this review article ( http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/17/0350228 ). Still, even allowing for my unscientific timing, the increase in speed is impressive. It should be especially welcome on older, RAM-challenged machines. For some reasons I am not using rawhide as of now, so some one else would be in a better position to suggest and test further, Rahul ? The requirements specified in the release notes can be still considered reasonable. I have been running it with reasonable performance on lower end systems though. I will also like to mention couple of facts that member developers of FC team from developed countries could learn during Linux Asia 06, (since those are not qouted much anywhere else) that in developing nations, power disruptions affected and low on resources machines -- expect Linux installations self recoverable, Should happen at some point. check out rescue mode automation at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AnacondaWorkItems. -- expects software suspend an important feature, There has been some integration work done earlier. It should work on many systems for Fedora Core 5. If it doesnt, kindly file bug reports with the hardware details. -- expects lower hardware requirements. The work that has been happening on the OLPC front - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC should help clean up dependencies and yield some performance benefits for low end systems. Rahul, Chris, Greg ? Thanks Cheers, Kevin -- Rahul
FC5 and early-login
Radek Vok?l wrote: Where did early login go? I don't see gdm-early-login in initscripts .. Stalled for a while. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=151952 -- Rahul
Re: Anaconda: good work!
Dimi Paun wrote: * Release Notes too big? I found them to be too big/verbose, especially for a light read during install. But maybe it's just me. Pretty much all of the information supplied in the release notes are just things that users have asked for in the previous releases. We have tried adding references where required to help avoid too much verbosity but it's unlikely that we will be able to drop off the information without alienating a portion of the end users. I am looking at providing a better simple overview by default with links to more detailed technical notes. -- Rahul
Re: Agenda for the 2009-05-26 Packaging Committee meeting
On 05/26/2009 09:50 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: The Packaging Committee will meet Tuesday, 2009-05-26 at 17:00UTC in the #fedora-meeting channel on chat.freenode.net. FPC works from the agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/GuidelinesTodo; there's just one item currently on the agenda: Phase out Buildroot - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Phase_out_buildroot_tag_%28draft%29 How about phasing out Group tag as well? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Agenda for the 2009-05-26 Packaging Committee meeting
On 05/26/2009 01:40 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:35:23AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 05/26/2009 09:50 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: The Packaging Committee will meet Tuesday, 2009-05-26 at 17:00UTC in the #fedora-meeting channel on chat.freenode.net. FPC works from the agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/GuidelinesTodo; there's just one item currently on the agenda: Phase out Buildroot - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Phase_out_buildroot_tag_%28draft%29 How about phasing out Group tag as well? It seems like the Group tag is now optional in upstream RPM (since somewhere around F-11). Yes but there should be packaging guidelines adding a note that you can just drop it similar to built root. Does apt, smart and synaptic support comps though? do we care? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Agenda for the 2009-05-26 Packaging Committee meeting
On 05/26/2009 03:38 PM, Panu Matilainen wrote: Smart in GUI-mode and Synaptic currently use the Group tag to, well, group the packages for viewing: http://laiskiainen.org/tmp/smartpm-groups.png. That's great. Apt (and smartpm in cli-mode) dont care. Without spec specified Group they all get lumped under Unspecified but as the group tags are already wildly inconsistent, full of typos etc... dunno if it's such a big loss. Yes, the packaging/review guidelines only care about comps grouping and not the Group tag. So for many packages, it is pretty arbitrary. I guess, we can just lose both build root and group tag to reduce noise. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: export policy, was Re: Package Maintainers Flags policy
On 05/26/2009 07:39 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: This is technically a violation of GPL, and could mean that anyone distributing Fedora with those restrictions has lost their rights to use and/or distribute the GPL software contained within Fedora.here they take place. FSF doesn't seem to think so http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FreeSoftwareAnalysis/FSF Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Packaging Survey - May 2009
Hi I did a quick survey from Fedora on what software Fedora users are using that is not available in the repo. Here are the results. If you find anything interesting, feel free to pick it up. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging_Survey_May_2009 Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Packaging Survey - May 2009
On 05/27/2009 06:08 PM, Nikolay Vladimirov wrote: I looked at Unknown Horizons and it has Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 license[1] on some[2] of the sounds. I noted this in the table also added the game to the forbidden games list until upstream can replace these sounds. [1] http://www.unknown-horizons.org/site/index.php?page=licence [2] http://trac.unknown-horizons.org/browser/trunk/content/audio/sounds/SOUND_LICENSE?rev=1961 Thanks for looking into this. This is a small number. We have some folks interested in sound and can provide replacements. CC'ing. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora and the moblin2 fork
On 05/27/2009 07:13 PM, Adam Miller wrote: If you package and maintain all of those and wrote the kickstart for the spin, is there really anything else for the rest of us to do? These packages are just hacks put up together to get a live cd up and running quickly. Interested people should go through them, submit them for review, push changes upstream etc. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: The future of firestarter
On 05/27/2009 07:51 PM, Adam Miller wrote: I recently picked up the firestarter package because it was orphaned and I know a few people who still use it. There were only a couple of small bugs opened against it so I figured I would hack at them as soon as I was able. But this morning there was a bug filed against it to port it to PolicyKit and I've run into two problems. 1) I know very little about PolicyKit other than a general overview of the purpose it serves and 2) I don't think it would really be worth doing all that work for a package that hasn't had any upstream activity in over 4 years. So my question is this, should I orphan this package such that someone else who feels the efforts wouldn't be wasted may take the time to perform the work or should I just retire the package? If upstream is dead and you are not going to do the work, just close the bug as WONTFIX. Yes, I filed the RFE in the first place but I wasn't aware that upstream is dead. So don't let that scare you from continuing to be the maintainer of it. Of course, if anyone is willing to do the work, that would be nice but probably not worth the effort if it is going to be a big patch. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: The future of firestarter
On 05/28/2009 02:24 AM, Adam Miller wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Cry cry_regar...@yahoo.com wrote: Any chance of filing a set of RFEs against system-config-firewall for the features that firestarter has that system-config-firewall is still missing? I like that idea, I've retired firestarter and will begin to file RFEs once I outline some features as well as pull the git repo and help with the development. Thanks Adam. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Broken dependencies in Fedora 12 Development - 2009-05-22
On 05/23/2009 12:26 AM, Michael Schwendt wrote: Your following packages in the repository suffer from broken dependencies: package: gnote-0.1.2-2.fc12.i586 from dist-f12-build-current-i386 Fixed by building a new upstream release - gnote 0.4.0 Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
gnaughty is a hot babe
Hi My packaging survey turned up a interesting suggestion https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2009-May/msg01809.html We don't currently have any guidelines covering this but considering the Debian action to hot babe http://lwn.net/Articles/113644/ I wanted to asked first, is this allowed in Fedora? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: gnaughty is a hot babe
On 05/28/2009 03:23 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3d) wrote: Would a cc to legal be in order? As a just in case. It is blocking FE-Legal already. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=503013 Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: gnaughty is a hot babe
On 05/29/2009 03:00 PM, Muayyad AlSadi wrote: IMHO it is not Fedora's job to define family values moralities. Such morals/values will vary all around the world I don't want fedora to define such things, we have our own values predefined. it should not make my job finding suck packages difficult we have more than 10,000 packages in the repos so don't expect me to test them all the package maintainers already classify their packages using Group: in the spec file and they already classify them in yum comps files I demand a systematic way, a policy that tells a package maintainer how to categories their packages in a unified proper way to warn people like us from their packages. The problem, how do we determine what is offensive to any particular group? Some people consider 3D shooter games offensive. This is slippery slope. Unless there is a legal issue, I believe Fedora is going to end up with that package. For a derivative, you have to pick and choose what you want. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: gnaughty is a hot babe
On 05/29/2009 05:21 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: ! One interesting thing - does it download free content? Are there some porn sites under CC licence? Free culture, by community for community... There is and no, I am not linking to them, here. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090528 changes
On 05/29/2009 09:41 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 10:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: kernel-2.6.29.4-167.fc11 * Wed May 27 2009 Kyle McMartin k...@redhat.com 2.6.29.4-164 - drm-intel-disable-kms-i8xx.patch: disable KMS by default on 845, 855, and 865. It can be forced on with i915.modeset=1 boot parameter. So, from 163 to 167, the sum total of changes was really just the addition of the patch to fix the hanging problem (and also drm-intel-set-domain-on-fault.patch , which is for another bug that we considered critical). The last change on 167 says that KMS is disabled on these chipsets. You seem to be saying it is actually enabled by default? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plans for tomorrow's (20090529) FESCo meeting
On 05/29/2009 09:27 PM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: By refusing kmods, we have more motivation to actually try and include upstream what we really need to use. If we can simply install the kmod, who cares if it's upstreamed ? We generally do care about whether something is upstream or not for various reasons discussed many times here but also because we push out new kernel updates often within a particular release and that has a good chance of breaking out of tree modules. End users do care about that as well. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Packaging Survey - May 2009
On 05/29/2009 07:34 PM, Mat Booth wrote: I don't think JEP should be on that list. I've used it in few commercial products and its a thousand dollars a pop for a source code licence: http://www.singularsys.com/order/ JEP in the wiki is linked to http://sourceforge.net/projects/jep/. Are you even talking about the same software? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Packaging Survey - May 2009
On 05/29/2009 10:47 PM, Mat Booth wrote: As of 2008-09-29 23:14, this project may now be found at: http://www.singularsys.com/jep; Wouldn't older versions still exist under the open source license? Are they still useful? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090528 changes
On 05/29/2009 10:23 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: * Wed May 27 2009 Kyle McMartin k...@redhat.com 2.6.29.4-164 - drm-intel-disable-kms-i8xx.patch: disable KMS by default on 845, 855, and 865. It can be forced on with i915.modeset=1 boot parameter. The last change on 167 says that KMS is disabled on these chipsets. You seem to be saying it is actually enabled by default? That's not the last change, it's the change in -164. The changelog is not properly ordered. Ugh. That explains my confusion. Thanks. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Mono ( Moonlight) Licensing? Revisited
On 05/31/2009 12:42 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3d) wrote: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/1 Not intending to burn the house down. But, going by this article: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/1 Dated 25th May. Unease sets in. It is not clear what your intend is? Moonlight is already marked as not permitted http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Moonlight Mono is in due to OIN http://gregdek.livejournal.com/4008.html Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Mono ( Moonlight) Licensing? Revisited
On 05/31/2009 03:41 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3D) wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 05/31/2009 12:42 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3d) wrote: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/1 Not intending to burn the house down. But, going by this article: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/1 Dated 25th May. Unease sets in. It is not clear what your intend is? Moonlight is already marked as not permitted Available Packages Name : mono-moonlight This is not moonlight itself. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492048 Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why not to create Fedora-us and Fedora-non-us branches?
On 05/31/2009 05:24 PM, Alexey Torkhov wrote: On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 16:58 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Usage of trademark was granted to Russian Fedora by agreement between Red Hat and other company that represent it here, AFAIK. Max Spevack was on presentation on Russian Fedora launch. I don't see it recorded in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_licensees It doesn't fit the trademark guidelines either. While Red Hat can legally grant a license to anyone and doesn't have to abide by the guidelines, I would expect it to do so nevertheless. So why a special exception for Russian Fedora? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Is The Devel Sig alive or Dead?
On 05/31/2009 05:42 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3d) wrote: Lat meeting log seems to be: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development#Communication It's not active anymore. The Fedora Development custom spin has also been dropped. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why not to create Fedora-us and Fedora-non-us branches?
On 05/31/2009 05:48 PM, Alexey Torkhov wrote: On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 17:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 05/31/2009 05:24 PM, Alexey Torkhov wrote: On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 16:58 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Usage of trademark was granted to Russian Fedora by agreement between Red Hat and other company that represent it here, AFAIK. Max Spevack was on presentation on Russian Fedora launch. I don't see it recorded in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_licensees It doesn't fit the trademark guidelines either. While Red Hat can legally grant a license to anyone and doesn't have to abide by the guidelines, I would expect it to do so nevertheless. So why a special exception for Russian Fedora? I don't know the details of an agreement, ask legal team for that. I don't need to know the details of the agreement. If any such agreement exists, it should follow the trademark guidelines that Fedora set for rest of the community and not be given special exceptions. Can the Fedora Board look into this? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: welcome to fedora
On 05/31/2009 05:17 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 05/31/2009 01:31 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote: Well, from my point of view, the OP doesn't meant to have a Welcome to Fedora text alone. I think he meant more likely the other stuff. Like, clickable: Discover that , Get online help here , Find information about whatever there. And thats not a bad idea. At least it is very new-user-friendly. It has been suggested before and accepted that as a useful idea. Someone needs to take the next step and implement it. Which tools would you recommend somebody uses to make this welcome screen? It would depend on the desktop you are targeting. PyGTK would be trivial for GNOME and QT for KDE. Xfce has a tips and tricks app that could be modified. It is also likely that whatever Mint is using already has the source code available. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Orphaning some packages (brasero, transmission and more)
On 06/03/2009 12:50 PM, Denis Leroy wrote: In an effort to focus more on FOSS upstream development, I am going to be orphaning some of my Fedora packages in the near future, starting with this first batch. transmission Taken this. Co-maintainers welcome. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Packager = Programmer?
On 06/04/2009 01:13 PM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3d) wrote: Does trying to become a packager. Involve being currently a Developer, as in Programming skills\certification, whether Perl\Python\c++ etc. Not necessarily. It's useful to understand the codebase but if you have a active upstream responsive to bug reports, you can just take care of the packaging aspects of it. You can always ask for help from others within Fedora or upstream if needed. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Question about web applications
On 06/04/2009 03:53 PM, Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: Hi, I submitted ampache (http://ampache.org/) for review, but I was told that it could not use any external software bundled in the code. In fact, it uses getid3, a file that seems to come from horde (horde/Browser.php), and some others. Submit separate review requests for independent projects bundled within the source and add them as dependencies once they are approved. Does it make any sense to fiddle something that has always had security as a prime concern? Yes, security is precisely one of the concerns with bundling independent sources together since bug fixes and security vulnerabilities will exist hidden. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Maintainer Responsibilities
On 06/04/2009 05:48 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Last time I reported this problem in the bugzilla component of redhat bugzilla (I complained about all the columns in list view no one uses when last change is not even displayed) the answer was that the people in charge did not want to deviate from upstream (bugzilla) defaults. Which, given all the historic redhat bugzilla customization, was a bit rich If you notice, Red Hat is steadily moving away from that and the customizations are either being upstream or removed and with new releases. So it matches the current direction. However it should be possible to turn off features we don't use in our bugzilla instance. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Question about web applications
On 06/04/2009 06:57 PM, Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: Thank you Jon. I will start with getid3. It would be nice if we had a list of packages missing available elsewhere, so people, interested in helping, could choose what to pack. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintainers_wishlist Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Packager = Programmer?
On 06/04/2009 10:18 PM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: I'd love to learn how autotools, setuptools, and other equivalents for other languages work. Not necessarily because I want to build a project using those, but because I sometimes have a hard time figuring out how to patch a Makefile in one of my packages, why I should patch a .in or .am file,... Actually, those would be great ideas for Fedora Classrooms I guess. Yes, that would be great. People who are experts in such things (I know we have a good number of those) should step up and participate in the Fedora Classroom sessions or help document it in a way relevant to package maintainers. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Comaintainers needed - Gnote and Transmission
Hi, Gnote is a port of Tomboy to C++ and will be default in GNOME for Fedora 12 Transmission is a GTK app and the default torrent client for Fedora in GNOME and Xfce (Live CD) Both are active and responsive upstreams and do have frequent releases. If anyone want to be comaintainer, feel free to apply. If you have a good understanding of the codebase or would be able to help with fixes, that would be nice. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: the end of life for flash player (HTML5)
On 06/05/2009 03:01 AM, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: LOOK the end of life for flash player (HTML5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvideodemo I am very happy to watch a video without macromedia flash. It is certainly a good start but basically supported in very few browsers at this point. Not a death of Flash certainly. Atleast not yet. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: [Phoronix] Ubuntu 9.04 vs. Fedora 11 Performance
On 06/12/2009 06:42 PM, Kyle McMartin wrote: It's almost certainly attributable to the default install using audit. Roland and various others have done a lot of work improving things, but there is always going to be a per-syscall overhead to this kind of thing. A few extra usec a syscall adds up after a few hundred thousand calls... Is there a benefit to running audit by default? Is it worth the cost? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: [Phoronix] Ubuntu 9.04 vs. Fedora 11 Performance
On 06/12/2009 09:14 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 19:01 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 06/12/2009 06:42 PM, Kyle McMartin wrote: It's almost certainly attributable to the default install using audit. Roland and various others have done a lot of work improving things, but there is always going to be a per-syscall overhead to this kind of thing. A few extra usec a syscall adds up after a few hundred thousand calls... Is there a benefit to running audit by default? Is it worth the cost? ...and how does one disable it, so the people doing the benchmarks can confirm that's the cause? service auditd stop and chkconfig auditd off if you want that to be permanent. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: [Phoronix] Ubuntu 9.04 vs. Fedora 11 Performance
On 06/12/2009 09:35 PM, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: put selinux=0 audit=0 in kernel line at /boot/grub/grub.conf then reboot $ dmesg | egrep -i audit|selinux Kernel command line: ro root=UUID=c99c0f86-6ebc-4e0f-91ee-4a6ae7ae6aa9 vga=791 selinux=0 audit=0 audit: disabled (until reboot) SELinux: Disabled at boot. See what Torvalds says about audit and fedora kernel: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernelm=124405016926339w=2 Turning off audit doesn't turn off SELinux. Linus is wrong about that. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Heads up: bluetoothd on-demand startup
On 06/12/2009 11:35 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: Heya, I've added a patch to bluetoothd in F-12 to support being started via udev, on-demand. bluetoothd will now only start up when you have a Bluetooth adapter plugged, and will exit 30 seconds after the last one went away. Can you add these details to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Fwd: google-gadgets
Original Message Subject: google-gadgets Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:28:52 +0200 From: Eric Tanguy eric.tan...@univ-nantes.fr Reply-To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-l...@redhat.com To: Community assistance, encouragement,and advice for using Fedora. fedora-l...@redhat.com Crash bug (#499139) seems to be open since a long time without any reaction and a new release (0.11) is out since May 31. Someone have news about this ? Thanks Eric -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Do we need split media CDs for F12?
On 06/15/2009 11:15 AM, Jon Masters wrote: The only counterpoint I came up with was that of folks in parts of the world who don't have access to modern hardware and don't have broadband. Yes but they prefer Live CD or regular DVD images usually. Magazines tend to distribute DVD image. Conferences - Live CD's. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Do we need split media CDs for F12?
On 06/18/2009 04:41 AM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: No particular reason with a traceable track record, but I've understood that anything that is not composed with pungi or livecd-tools will be blocked as they are the blessed and preferred tools for the job(s). You use whatever tool you want but as long as rel-eng can work either pungi or livecd-tools to produce the same result, it doesn't matter. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Announcing LXDE Fedora Remix 11
On 06/19/2009 12:38 AM, Christoph Wickert wrote: You never tried to convey anything to me. Back in Februar I asked for your ks and you said you wanted to post it to fedora-devel. This never happened. I got distracted with other things. Mine wasn't that different anyway. It was the almost the same set of packages after all with some minor changes in configuration. I find it despicable from you to take the work others did, slap your name on it and release it without _ANY_ attribution to the people doing most of the work and without even telling anybody about your plans. This is FOSS after all, communication is vital and credit the main currency. As I have noted before, your name is right there on top of http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/remixes/LXDE/lxde-fedora-remix-11.ks even before mine. I have only indicated that I have made some modifications and it would be fair to do so. The whole idea behind remixes is that it can be done by anybody. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Announcing LXDE Fedora Remix 11
On 06/19/2009 01:41 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: To sum it up: You say you wanted to work together with me, but you did not contact me, you did not tell me and you did not send me your ks, although you promised to do so. Right? I made no such promise. I expressed a intend to do so and got busy with the other things. Since there is no big difference between kickstart files that essentially do the same thing and is so old now that is not going be useful anymore, I am not even sure why you are so bothered with it. Neverthless if you wanted it, you could have easily send me a reminder instead of bringing it up after such a long time. My name is at the top of the ks and you hardly can remove a copyright notice. It is a kickstart file with a bunch of packages and groups and some simple configuration changes. Hardly something unique enough to be copyrightable. Nevertheless AFAICS all you changed is: * You replaced slim with gdm because you could not get it working * and included PolicyKit-gnome This is not really much remixing of my work. Don't you think that my name should have been mentioned in the announcement? I agree it would be been nice to do so but I have already said that in long offlist mails and IRC conversations. It is not reasonable to demanding it however since much of what we do is by nature, building on others work. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: !Help Development of WPA_SUPPLICANT
On 06/19/2009 05:53 PM, Harsha gowda wrote: Hi, Help !, I want to setup a debug build of wpasupplicant so that i can Trace PEAP - MSCHAP v2 protocol for my study, so i have installed Fedora release 10 (Cambridge), the wpa supplicant works fine by default which come with CD, I downloaded *wpa_supplicant-0.6.4-2.fc10.src.rpm*, and extracted it to a folder, # debuginfo-install wpa_supplicant Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: !Help Development of WPA_SUPPLICANT
On 06/19/2009 06:21 PM, Harsha gowda wrote: Still wireless connection is disabled in network-manager, Could you please elaborate what you want to say.. ? You were asking for a method to install the debug information. I have provided you a better way than rebuilding the package from source. You can proceed from here to do what you intended to do in the first place which is not very clear to me. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Announcing LXDE Fedora Remix 11
On 06/19/2009 07:21 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: Quote: I will post the ks file and the image to fedora-devel list a bit later. To me this sounds like a promise. If this looks like a promise, then I guess every statement of intend looks like a promise to you. Remember, that you are talking about something many months ago. People forget things. Sending a reminder doesn't hurt. But whenever one builds on others work, one credits them. This is what FOSS is about. Would you credit all the upstream developers in a spin or remix announcement as well? There is a limit to the amount of credit seeking one must engage in. It is a simple oversight. After dozens of emails over multiple mailing lists and long IRC conversations, I think you should just move on. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Heads up: bluetoothd on-demand startup
On 06/13/2009 12:43 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 23:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 06/12/2009 11:35 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: Heya, I've added a patch to bluetoothd in F-12 to support being started via udev, on-demand. bluetoothd will now only start up when you have a Bluetooth adapter plugged, and will exit 30 seconds after the last one went away. Can you add these details to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes Will do. Are you still planning on doing this? Do you need help? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/22/2009 12:54 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: Not possible while we allow people to keep making updates to the older releases. Those updates quickly become version ( not just release even ) higher than the static copies on the release medium and repos. Is there any proposed solution to this problem? We can't just continue to break upgrade paths and call it the way things are done. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/22/2009 01:01 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: If you have any ideas I'd like to hear them. A super epoch has already been suggested but that just masks the problem and may cause unwanted downgrades. Any solution either involves severly limiting what kind of updates can be done or requiring network access during upgrades. I can't think of any fool proof solutions but there are a couple of things that might help: * Run checks on upgrade paths and inform the maintainers when are about to break an upgrade path (ie) before signing it. I noticed a few maintainers I talked to just weren't aware they were doing so and neither were they aware of the %dist.1 trick to workaround the problem atleast in some cases. They might choose to delay an update where it is feasible to do so. Not sure what we can do about security updates or critical bug fixes breaking the upgrade path for the next release. Ideally, the maintainer should have pushed it in sync for the two releases. * In preupgrade, if a user has updates-testing repo enabled, make sure it is enabled for the release they are upgrading to. I think I have a RFE filed on this. This is a bit of a corner case. Rahul Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/22/2009 04:49 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: I think you mean before pushing rather than signing, but this idea has been suggested before. Well, if you aren't going to push anyway, then signing it wouldn't be that useful, right? A koji build can be a trigger for the script check instead of a push in bodhi. The good thing is, we could possibly tie this into bodhi during update submission. It's fairly easy to do NEVR comparisons and we don't need full repos for the upgrade path checks to happen since we can use the update information and koji tags. The bad thing is, this suffers from the same problems every other auto-QA suggestion has. Namely, no code, nobody with time to write the code, and it potentially slows things down even more. Isn't the scripts Michael Schwendt refers to, not useful anymore? Even one with some false positives would be better than nothing. There is also the separate but related problem of maintainers ignoring issues that are being reported but that is a relatively smaller number. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/22/2009 05:35 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: Isn't the scripts Michael Schwendt refers to, not useful anymore? Even It's useful. It's generally after the fact though, and in the long run I think we want to be proactive, not reactive. I agree but we aren't even reacting much now. If the scripts run from infrastructure systems automatically as opposed to having someone run it manually, I suspect it would help fix most of the issues we are currently having. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/22/2009 06:56 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:20:07PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 06/22/2009 05:35 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: Isn't the scripts Michael Schwendt refers to, not useful anymore? Even It's useful. It's generally after the fact though, and in the long run I think we want to be proactive, not reactive. I agree but we aren't even reacting much now. If the scripts run from infrastructure systems automatically as opposed to having someone run it manually, I suspect it would help fix most of the issues we are currently having. True. Care to file a rel-eng ticket suggesting we setup a cronjob to do so? The script will likely need some rework and it may take some time, but the ticket is a good starting point. Here, you go https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1471 Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: autodownloader, live spins and packaging
On 06/23/2009 08:26 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: For example the quake3 package is needed for some games in Fedora, but it makes menu items for some games that are only playable with large downloads. No. It doesn't. Check again. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rpms/php-pecl-geoip/devel import.log, NONE, 1.1 php-pecl-geoip.spec, NONE, 1.1 .cvsignore, 1.1, 1.2 sources, 1.1, 1.2
On 06/23/2009 11:36 PM, topdog wrote: Author: topdog Update of /cvs/pkgs/rpms/php-pecl-geoip/devel In directory cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv2525/devel On the commits mailing list, instead of the author name at the From field, I see only a nick name. Why is that? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: update mechanism for new releases
On 06/24/2009 01:42 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)boche...@fedoraproject.org wrote: RPM has seen a lot of improvements in speed and memory consumption Are there any improvements on recovery of unexpectedly failed transactions, such as OOM, kernel oops or hard power-off? I think such questions can be better answered in the RPM upstream mailing list. It would be good for you to bring your concerns there. http://lists.rpm.org/mailman/listinfo/rpm-maint I am sure the RPM developers would be very interested in them. It is not true that RPM/Yum developers treat mid transaction failures as insolvable problems. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Thunderbird/Evolution quirks
On 06/25/2009 07:01 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: On 06/24/2009 08:21 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: If you look at the three things evolution does: mail, contacts and calendar, two out of three fit very well into office. Its the nature of categorization that 'relatively similar' things eventually end up in different buckets. One of the many reasons why hierarchical menus are a suboptimal solution to organizing applications... Thunderbird does mail, contacts, and calendar. Sounds like Evolution and Thunderbird are exactly the same in this case. There is no relativity to speak of. They aren't exactly the same. Thunderbird requires add-ons. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/25/2009 01:37 PM, Simon Andrews wrote: 1) All of our servers have to access the internet via a proxy. At least within the Anaconda UI there doesn't appear to be any support for configuring proxies so I'm forced into kickstart / shells / extra boot options to upgrade? Do you have a RFE filed on this? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Why do we need FC version attached to the package name?
On 06/26/2009 04:04 PM, Simon Andrews wrote: Alexander Boström wrote: Den 2009-06-25 13:07, Simon Andrews skrev: If all anaconda upgrades are going to be online Anaconda upgrades initiated through Preupgrade do not require a network connection. They will if one of the conditions for upgrading is going to be access to the updates repository. It is not, currently and unlikely to ever be. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/27/2009 03:50 PM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: They sometimes post a mail in a thread like this one and avoid further actions, as they have little hope to have their voice heard by RedHat (this is not a typo for Fedora). Yes, it is a typo for Red Hat :-) Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/27/2009 09:13 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: As for integration, we offer a perfectly integrated KDE spin, thank you very much... We're working really hard on distro integration. For example, why do you think I wrote that KDM ConsoleKit patch back in F7 times (a modified version of which got merged upstream in KDE 4.2)? Where are we lacking integration? I don't disagree that the current team is doing a good job but there isn't enough resources to handle everything correctly and the current status is far from perfect. There are a number of things currently lacking compared to the GNOME experience driven by GNOME developers within Fedora: * Proper integration of NetworkManager. KDE currently is using NetworkManager-gnome which doesn't integrate well with KDE * KPackageKit doesn't do mime, font or codec integration like gpk-application does and is generally in a more broken state. Clicking on a downloaded RPM used to fail in Fedora 11 GA. No support for creating service packs either in KPackageKit * For good codec integration, you need gstreamer to be the default. Phonon gstreamer backend doesn't seem to be as mature as the Xine backend yet. * Solid needs a proper DeviceKit backend and that needs to be followed up with integration of libatasmart et all. * GDM integrates better with Plymouth via plymouth-gdm-hooks package * No support for fingerprint readers in KDM This is not a comprehensive list. Merely things I can think of, top of my head. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/28/2009 05:25 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: So, most of the stuff you mention will be fixed really soon, probably already in F12! But there are also plenty of KDE features GNOME doesn't have (e.g. where's a GNOME desktop globe matching Marble?). It's perfectly normal that some features are not available at the same time in both desktops. That has nothing to do with system integration. The difference between features like a desktop globe and things like NetworkManager is obvious. I am talking about core desktop infrastructure. Moreover all the features I mention were driven within Fedora. KDE does lack integration with them. Fedora 12 hopefully fixes some of them but I suspect it is going to be a game of catch up. This is not your fault or KDE SIG's. Just a matter of availability of resources. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/28/2009 01:43 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote: There is already a website team. But before i will join them or work with them together, i read a lot and try to find out what will happen. And i doubt it was the website team who made the decision how ugly (sorry just IMO) and poor it looks like. You have any reasons to doubt it? It is all recorded in the public website list archives. Go ahead and read it. Good design and a better website will not come out of a committee vote. Sure? Yep. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/28/2009 03:35 PM, Niels Haase wrote: GNOME KDE - official support from fedora (first class citizen) XFCE - spin only (second class citizen) LXDE - remix only (third class citizen) Just my two pennies worth. Xfce and LXDE are in the central repository and maintained well by the maintainers involved just like GNOME and KDE. Whether it is part of a separate spin or remix or neither doesn't really indicate any differences in the level of support. Some of the best maintained packages are in a niche and not part of any media. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/29/2009 12:54 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: The user does not care, so why present things to the user as if they should? I said nothing about users. You should as a Fedora developer care about integration with leading edge features that makes Fedora stand out. You're calling things integration which are just features, e.g. fingerprint reading. I guess that is a just a different perspective. My point of view is that, finger print functionality already exists for quite sometime. What is new is the integration with desktop environment and display manager. I find it amusing that you won't even agree that shipping nm-applet in KDE results is a gap in integration. This was a result of the KDE 3 - KDE 4 migration. Let's just agree to disagree. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono
On 06/29/2009 02:30 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: I would be worried about users\devs who use fedora apps which depend on C#. Is C# used just for web-apps (fedora context)? # repoquery --whatrequires --all --recursive mono-core It is mostly desktop apps and not web apps. Nothing Fedora specific about them. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FESCo meeting summary for 2009-06-26
On 06/29/2009 07:20 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: The biggest issue is lack of communication from the only right Desktop - we can't catch changes if these changes are communicated to community too late. Lot of new free desktop techs come from Fedora and we know it and we're working really hard with upstream to solve it and catch current state. But we're unfortunately out of sync with KDE upstream releases and so it's harder sometimes. It helps to drop the foo vs bar fight, finger pointing and get on the irc channel or in mailing lists if necessary and ask questions. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono
On 06/29/2009 08:49 PM, drago01 wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: drago01 wrote: Another don't use $LANGUAGE because its evil post from RMS. So what? His concerns are real. Depends on how you read them and whether you agree with him or not. And for most cases I don't. Saying mono is evil while having DotGNU seems odd to me (http://www.gnu.org/software/dotgnu/) Did you even read the article? I don't see where FSF cliams mono is evil. Their position is far more nuanced than that. What FSF is suggesting is to treat Mono purely as a (legacy) compatibility layer and not use it for new applications. This is not to say that implementing C# is a bad thing. Free C# implementations permit users to run their C# programs on free platforms, which is good. (The GNU Project has an implementation of C# also, called Portable.NET.) Ideally we want to provide free implementations for all languages that programmers have used. The problem is not in the C# implementations, but rather in Tomboy and other applications written in C#. If we lose the use of C#, we will lose them too. That doesn't make them unethical, but it means that writing them and using them is taking a gratuitous risk. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: FAO: Programmers Quick Q?
On 06/29/2009 09:04 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development#Communication with this in mind. Have a ticket open for a new m-l. devel-apps@ or programming-sig@ Any preference? May I request that you gather a community and get some more progress *before* creating yet another mailing list? We have enough dead or almost dead mailing lists. Adding more isn't useful. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Heads Up: e2fsprogs library split-out
On 06/29/2009 09:08 PM, Eric Sandeen wrote: There have been a few requests to split out the various libraries in e2fsprogs into subpackages: libcom_err(-devel) libss(-devel) libuuid(-devel) The following packages have BuildRequires: on e2fsprogs-devel, so depending on what libs they required from the package, they may need to shift to one of these new subpackages when they go in (hopefully today or tomorrow). I'll send another follow-up mail when it's done. Thanks for doing this. It is going to cause some confusion between libuuid and uuid however. These package descriptions could be updated to cross reference each other. sundaram: gnote I will update to change the BR to libuuid-devel when there is a new upstream release. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: RFC: Kernel changes that may affect desktops
On 06/30/2009 07:26 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote: ACPI docking stations are mildly complicated creatures that require the OS to handle part of the undocking process. We're currently doing this entirely within the kernel, but this has the significant downside that there's no way to handle cleanly unmounting any block devices that are contained within the dock - they'll simply vanish. I've been working with David Zeuthen to flesh out proper desktop support for this, and we're now at the point where there's not a great deal of code to write to get this working cleanly. Unfortunately this requires a certain level of integration between the kernel and the desktop - something has to prompt the user about unmounting the device and then trigger the completion of the undock. The kernel still handles the actual ACPI execution, but policy now lives in the desktop. Where exactly in the desktop and can that be a library? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono
On 06/30/2009 09:28 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: 梁穗隆 on 06/30/2009 10:51 AM wrote: So I really hope that solang will replace f-spot soon. And solang has more new features than f-spot. I don't see a package review request or any koji builds. Are you sure it's coming to Fedora? Solang developers need to port it to the newer version of libgda first. Otherwise it would require a compat package to get into the repository. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 06:03 PM, drago01 wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Rawhide Reportrawh...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Compose started at Thu Jul 2 06:15:05 UTC 2009 ... New package ldd-pdf Linux Device Drivers, Third Edition Book in PDF format We ship books as packages? Yes and this is not even the first time. Dive Into Python has been in the repo for ages already. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 06:15 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: Is there a book group? or what search parameter? Tried yum info Dive Into Python # yum info diveintopython Since we have more than one book, I guess a new group could be defined as well. If there is consensus on the name, I can add it. Should we just call it Books ? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 06:58 PM, Adam Miller wrote: +1 on the Books idea Does this look ok? --- comps-f12.xml.in.orig 2009-07-02 15:39:02.0 +0530 +++ comps-f12.xml.in2009-07-02 19:49:32.108616562 +0530 @@ -520,6 +520,17 @@ /packagelist /group group +idbooks/id +_nameTechnical Books/_name +_description/ +defaultfalse/default +uservisibletrue/uservisible +packagelist + packagereq type=defaultdiveintopython/packagereq + packagereq type=defaultldd-pdf/packagereq +/packagelist + /group + group idbuildsys-build/id _nameBuildsystem building group/_name _description/ Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 08:45 PM, drago01 wrote: If we want to go this route, why limit it to technical books? That's what is currently available. The description can be changed if policy is. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 08:51 PM, David wrote: I disagree that Fedora should be packaging books, both of these can easily be downloaded via web. Why package something that has no dependencies? We package hundreds of things that have no dependencies and can be downloaded easily via web including fonts. That is not a argument. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 08:37 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: Yes and this is not even the first time. Dive Into Python has been in the repo for ages already. That doesn't mean it's compliant with our guidelines on shipping content. I really don't see what benefit it gives us to have a package dumping some book into /usr/share. Can't it be given as a regular download on a website? Possibly even the Fedora wiki. But packages sound to me like a completely overkill format to distribute PDF books. We have heard both sides of the argument in detail several times now and I doubt there is value in debating it one more time on the list. So take it up to FESCo if you think there is some violation of guidelines. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: packaging fix in boost
On 07/02/2009 10:45 PM, Petr Machata wrote: Hi, recently we've (that's we as in me and Benjamin Kosnik, not a royal we) broken up boost to sub-packages in Fedora Rawhide, but we forgot to drop a filelist at the main boost package, intended as an umbrella over all the sub-packages. So in the end, main boost package was still as big as it always was and all benefits (and bugs) that the split could bring were lost. Meh. boost-1.39.0-3.fc12 that should fix the above is being built right now. Maintainers of dependent packages, especially those that are known to be on the Live CD, might want to consider a rebuild. Thanks for fixing this problem. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/02/2009 09:33 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote: 2009/7/2 Paul W. Frields sticks...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 02:52:59PM +0200, Thomas Janssen wrote: 2009/7/2 Rahul Sundaram sunda...@fedoraproject.org: On 07/02/2009 06:15 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: Is there a book group? Since we have more than one book, I guess a new group could be defined as well. If there is consensus on the name, I can add it. Should we just call it Books ? +1 Perhaps something more inclusive like Documentation would be good. It's possible that the Docs team might produce some content that would be useful here as well. Or alternately, Books and Guides? Books and Guides even better. Committed for Fedora 12. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20090702 changes
On 07/03/2009 04:56 AM, Christoph Wickert wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 02.07.2009, 23:10 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: On 07/02/2009 09:33 PM, Thomas Janssen wrote: ... Books and Guides even better. Committed for Fedora 12. Correct me if I'm wrong, but new groups in comps are expected to be ratified by FESCo. Groups don't go through FESCo ratification. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_and_edit_comps.xml_for_package_groups#New_groups Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: readline update?
On 07/03/2009 03:57 PM, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: I'd like to update readline to the latest version 6.0. The problem is that the license was changed to GPLv3+ and we have some GPLv2 packages using readline. A possible replacement is the editline library which provides a compatible interface and is licensed under BSD, unfortunately it doesn't handle UTF-8. Are we stuck with readline 5.2? Suggestions? Have you talked to upstream and checked on what they suggest that we do about this? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Feature proposal: Extended Life Cycle Support
On 07/05/2009 03:28 AM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: I wanted to draw your attention to a feature I've proposed for Fedora 12, mysteriously called Extended Life Cycle. You can find more details at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Extended_Life_Cycle Instead of saying yet to be determined, put in the actual number of say 20 months there in the summary upfront. The FAQ should also answer How is this going to succeed, where Fedora Legacy failed?. You should put in a place for people to sign up for this effort. If more people volunteer, it would make answer the question on who is actually going to do this. Is opt-in ELC support for every release or is it going to be an experimental effort just for Fedora 12 to evaluate feasibility? How would you prefer to brand it? Would maintenance of packages be available for a separate ELC support team if the primary maintainers are not interested? Do you want to focus on a core set of packages instead of everything? If people had a better handle on what exactly they are volunteering for, more of them might. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: fedora EPEL packages.
On 07/09/2009 01:02 PM, yersinia wrote: If someone want mantain an package for EPEL but the maintainer for FEDORA don't, it is possible for someone else to do ? Yes. Refer to the EPEL FAQ. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
