Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
BTW Re :HYPERTHYROIDISM my vet told me that RadioCat has a 4-month, ½ price special for radioiodine treatments, starting Nov. 1 performed at area veterinary clinics on East Coast, check with them if its going on in other areas. Ive had bad experiences with Tapazole/Methimazole .and this would be a lot cheaper in the long run! Have had 3 cats done, and 2 more are getting it done by RadioCat (www.RadioCat.com ) at a super price. My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:58 AM To: felvtalk Subject: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food Costco's Kirkland is excellent. Unfortunately, it just went up in price a dollar and fifty cents more to $18.99. It was about $17.59 a couple of weeks ago but it's still the best deal around for 25 pounds of good quality cat food. I began feeding it again to my inside rescues because they were losing weight after we moved out of San Antonio to Comal County to get away from the ACO's who were constantly giving me citations for too many cats. Anyway, cats are not good with moving from a known to an unknown place. Lots of stress, fur loss, weight loss, behavior problems. I finally have it under control thanks to a friend who has her own 501 c 3 and is quite well known in the rescue community. I got several adoptions through her organization which culled the herd nicely. A couple of my older cats passed on from kidney failure, one from cancer (my oldest FIV+ cat who was about 13) and one from heart disease and a tumor. I think it was all due to the stress of moving and being in a much smaller place. Anyway, to straighten out the fur and weight problem, I bought Kirkland because it has the highest fat content of any of the dry foods. Several months and several bags of Kirkland later, one of my cats who was almost bald now has a really nice coat (long fur girl, house feral) and the scabs on her skin are gone. She has put on at least a pound, if not two. The other cats are gaining weight, all except one. He needs a thyroid profile when I get some money. But he's holding his own also. Of course, my fat cats are getting fatter by the minute. But on the whole, I'm very happy with Kirkland. I also use Paws and Claws, which is the brand Tractor Supply feed store puts out. It's quite a bargain although not as fatty as Kirkland but costs $20 for 36 pounds. I only use canned for the cat who has stomatitis. Since Kirkland is smaller pellets than other cat food, he is able to eat it without trouble. I have a membership at Costco through my animal rights organization. There are three of us who do cat rescue and we share the membership fee each year. We are tax exempt, which helps also with the price. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now
It's not just the politics...as I wrote originally. My new email address is:atia@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now Natalie, Your posts are so informative. You are one of the most interesting ones in this group. Why would you leave just because of a brief discussion of politics?? In every group there are things that come up that upset us, but as Edna said the elections will be over soon and I really hope you'll stay with us. We learn a lot from you and you can learn from us. Lorrie On 10-12, Edna Taylor wrote: Sorry to see you leave the list Natalie :( You should stick around since the elections will be over soon ;) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off topic, of interest to many: Webcast: Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis (how sheltertsd canb make cats sick!!!)
If anyone is interested, let me know, and I will send the entire page, how to register, with info privately; it’s too large to send to this group! My new email address is:atia@gmail.com Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can Make Cats Sick – And What You Can Do About It It's a feline housing revolution – and it’s helping stop shelter cat upper respiratory infections in their tracks! Image removed by sender. large_box_bottom.gif Image removed by sender. spacer.gif Cats are extremely sensitive to noise, crowding, and stress – three things that are in abundant supply in many animal shelters. These adverse conditions often lead to illness in sheltered cats, particularly the most common of all feline shelter diseases, upper respiratory infection (URI). The good news is that with a “feline wellness renovation project” – decreasing crowding and reducing stress – you can drastically cut the incidence of feline URI in your shelter's cat population. Maddie's InstituteSM is pleased to announce the second in a two-part series on feline URI in shelters: Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can Make Cats Sick - And What You Can Do About It. Join us for this free webcast on Thursday, October 25, at 9 PM Eastern, presented by Dr. Sandra Newbury of the Koret Shelter Medicine Program at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine. Attendees will learn: * How to understand the natural behavior of cats * How to set up shelter housing to reduce stress * The importance of giving cats a place to hide when stressed or fearful * The impact of housing cats near dogs * How improvements in noise levels, light cycles, and enrichment can benefit cats * Temperature, air quality and ventilation requirements for URI prevention * How to understand exposure risks * How to set up separation and isolation for sick cats Individuals attending the live webcast will be entered in a door prize drawing for one of ten copies of Maddie's® Animal Shelter Infection Control Manual! Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can Make Cats Sick - And What You Can Do About It, is part of an ongoing series of educational programs from Maddie's Institute, a program of Maddie's Fund®, the nation's leading funder of shelter medicine education. Maddie's Institute brings cutting edge shelter medicine information from universities and animal welfare leaders to shelter veterinarians, managers and staff as well as private practice veterinarians, rescue groups and community members to increase the lifesaving of homeless dogs and cats community-wide. _ Presenter: Sandra Newbury, DVM attachment: image001.jpgattachment: image002.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] OT - The crying bull
The crying bull: http://vedicviews-worldnews.blogspot.com/2012/07/crying-bull-true-story.html My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:54 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food It's even worse than that: http://siriusdog.com/rendering-plants-pet-food.htm And I've heard that at a local plant, the animals weren't even all dead. The tough guy who told me that was crying, so I believe him. On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Yum! It's lunch time here. So glad I'm a vegetarian and don't have to face a plate of meat after that tidbit of information. But yes, cats do eat the whole animal and I won't get into the things that they have so generously given me after they caught a bird or lizard but they don't eat cows or sheep or pigs or intestines with the crap in them and that's what commercial by-products are. No one is going to empty and wash out intestines before adding them to the heap. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food They do eat by-products when they eat the whole prey, but they are getting all the rest, too, which they don't get with just by-products (where the good stuff has been taken out for human consumption). By-products contain much less nutrition and are often indigestible. Note that cats also get some minerals by eating the dirt that's on the animals. Guess that's why some feral feeders just put the food on the ground. :-) That has always surprised me when people report that their cat doesn't eat the organs, as those (exept for feces-filled intestines) are the most nutritious things in the prey's body, and also (I've read that) the big cats eat the organs first and bury the rest of the body for the next day. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: While we are on the subject of raw diet, don't they eat some of those things when they catch a mouse, rabbit or squirrel or bird? The only things my guys don't eat are the organs, especially intestines. Other wise, they eat the whole thing. -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter: The Return of the Clump
Just imagine what it does to cats and kittens inside their bodies! Natalie My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:44 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter: The Return of the Clump I had this same thing happen when I tried SweatScoop. It turned to cement at the bottom of the litter pan. I had to get a hammer to get it out. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!Image removed by sender. www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter: The Return of the Clump This is a horror story. It's true. My cats will tell you it is. One day, several years ago, I decided to purchase clumping litter. In those days I was using Traditional, a brand put out by HEB supermarket. Traditional is a white litter, not too much dust, at that time very inexpensive. Then I saw HEB Scoopable. It wasn't very expensive so I lugged a couple of bags home. Now, the horror part comes when you realize that I knew nothing about clumping litter except that it clumps when hit with something liquid. So I poured the same amount of clumping clay into the cat boxes as I had with the ordinary stuff. Sigh! Once in a while I should read directions. The litter clumped to the bottom of the box. Solid. Cement. Mixed with cat piss. I had to take all the boxes out to the yard and use a hack saw to get the litter out. Finally, hammer, chisel and garden hose got the boxes back to usable state. Five hours wasted. Cats giggling inside, waiting to see what I would do next. I read the directions. Needed was at least three inches of litter per box. Ten boxes. Five bags of cheap clumping clay. Ah. It clumped. Did not stick to the bottom of the box. Each perfectly formed clump weighed about three pounds. Hernia time. I purchased 5 bags of litter, each weighing 20 pounds. I filled up about 10 boxes. Used about 5 of the bags, give or take a few grains of sand. Half a bag to a box. That would be about 10 pounds of clay per box. After all was said and done, I got over 24 pounds worth of clumps out of each box. I wish someone would make litter out of silver dollars that would triple when hit with a liquid substance. Used up an entire roll of garbage bags. Sanitation department workers had to be hospitalized for hernias. It was around that time that I discovered Feline Pine. The cats were a little startled at having to do their thing on something that smelled like wood and rolled around like marbles but they got the hang of it finally. Some like to bat the pine pellets all over the floor. They especially like to bat them over to the door so when I come into the room I step rolly-polly pellets and go skidding into a wall. Need a book on cat behavior modification. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ attachment: ~WRD000.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Ta ta for now
It seems that this topic still isn’t closed, is it? There have been comments after the one you just responded to here. I joined because a friend recommended this group, and it has been helpful. I had 2 adult FeLV+ cats. One of the cats died of CRF, and the other was adopted by a veterinarian and is still doing OK. Those 2 cats lived with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 months, and I tested all starting with very young and older cats – not a single cat contracted the virus! 6 months should have been enough time to do so, shouldn’t it? Since I don’t have any FeLV positive cats right now, I decided that I will get off this list – I learned things that I’d rather not have known, such as someone hunting small game, another person having cats declawed routinely, I guess because the vet offers such a great deal, etc. But before I leave, I will post just one site about Clumping litter containing sodium bentonite. Don’t forget, it doesn’t have to be listed in the ingredients!~ And as long as it states that it can be flushed down the toilet, is doesn’t contain SB, which would completely block the plumbing. I’ve seen so many reviews, often poo-pooing the dangers, misstating that SB expands 5 times its weight (it’s capable of absorbing liquid and moisture 15 x its weight, and is- used in construction). The best article was written in Tiger Tribe, a holistic cat magazine that is no longer published. When I heard that they were closing down operations, I bought all the back issues. http://www.thelighthouseonline.com/articles/clump.html - Clumping clay litters, a deadly convenience. This one is short and sweet. http://kapush.net/cat-litter/sodium-bentonite-cat-litter-dangers/ - Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of cindy reasoner Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President I disagree. Please can we just end all the political talk. Cindy Reasoner --- On Wed, 10/10/12, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: From: GRAS g...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 2:10 PM I must respectfully disagree, this wasn’t about bashing anyone– to state a platform on which a candidate is running is just that – no one was calling any candidate horrible names! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now
Thanks, just spread the word on it, post on FB, etc. – I did. It’s a shame that a company’s response would be “Buyer beware”….anything we buy for our pets should be safe without question! My husband got a catnip/fabric toy, made in China at PetSmart…I was about to let the cats use it, when I decided out of curiosity to read the label..guess what? It said that “if ingested, could cause death”! Now, we have to read all small print on doggie treats, especially when made in China, and learned that American made treats had to be recalled because of salmonella! I’ll be making my own doggie and cat treats (haha, in my spare time). Natalie My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Hogue Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 4:39 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now Thanks for sharing the great information. Very helpful to me, as I seek to use the best products for my beloved furry friends. Sorry to see you check out – you have been very helpful, to me. Bonnie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now It seems that this topic still isn’t closed, is it? There have been comments after the one you just responded to here. I joined because a friend recommended this group, and it has been helpful. I had 2 adult FeLV+ cats. One of the cats died of CRF, and the other was adopted by a veterinarian and is still doing OK. Those 2 cats lived with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 months, and I tested all starting with very young and older cats – not a single cat contracted the virus! 6 months should have been enough time to do so, shouldn’t it? Since I don’t have any FeLV positive cats right now, I decided that I will get off this list – I learned things that I’d rather not have known, such as someone hunting small game, another person having cats declawed routinely, I guess because the vet offers such a great deal, etc. But before I leave, I will post just one site about Clumping litter containing sodium bentonite. Don’t forget, it doesn’t have to be listed in the ingredients!~ And as long as it states that it can be flushed down the toilet, is doesn’t contain SB, which would completely block the plumbing. I’ve seen so many reviews, often poo-pooing the dangers, misstating that SB expands 5 times its weight (it’s capable of absorbing liquid and moisture 15 x its weight, and is- used in construction). The best article was written in Tiger Tribe, a holistic cat magazine that is no longer published. When I heard that they were closing down operations, I bought all the back issues. http://www.thelighthouseonline.com/articles/clump.html - Clumping clay litters, a deadly convenience. This one is short and sweet. http://kapush.net/cat-litter/sodium-bentonite-cat-litter-dangers/ - Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of cindy reasoner Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President I disagree. Please can we just end all the political talk. Cindy Reasoner --- On Wed, 10/10/12, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: From: GRAS g...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 2:10 PM I must respectfully disagree, this wasn’t about bashing anyone– to state a platform on which a candidate is running is just that – no one was calling any candidate horrible names! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island
OK, will do – I will make it into more of a catchy poster and copy you! My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amanda Vollaro Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island Sure, Natalie. POst away! Anything will help. I was lucky to be able to adopt out one from this brood, but after trying for months to find suitable adoptive parents via Craigslist in my area, I gave up. So many people want cats without strings - without a backup vet, and without the means to take care of them. I had to turn down nearly 30 people. I'd fell much better is I was dealing with experienced rescuers...so here's my #: 516-350-0131. It's a gmail #, so people can call absolutely anytime, even in the middle of the night, and leave me a message that I'll get next day when I log on. Oh, could you post the Animal SOS Alert URL? Id like to take a look and see if I should join. Thanks! Amanda Vollaro avoll...@optonline.net - Original Message - From: Natalie mailto:at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island From: Amanda Vollaro avoll...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island Anyway, I've become overwhelmed with the sheer number of kitties that I'm dealing with (24) and even though I've been working with The Brookhaven Animal Alliance to get them all fixed, I'm at my wits end. I'm trying to find foster parents for at least six little darling 7 month old ragdoll kittens. Some are loners and can go on their own, others could be paired for comfort...they are all indoor-outdoor cats (they have a kitty-run on my deck outside) and every one of them is a love. Does anyone know of anybody doing fostering in my area (Suffolk County) and could you please let me know their contact info? I have tried asking some of the gals that I know, and they are booked up solid. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
Muyltiply that by 10 + - Natalie -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food ME TOO! I only have 7 and their food and litter costs over $100.00 per month. Vet bills are something else. Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, @#$%!!!. The price of Kirkland Adult Maintenance cat food used to be $16.99. Then it went up a year later to $17.59. Well, I bought two 20 lb. bags a week and a half ago. This Tuesday, I went back to Costco because my cats ate most of the Kirkland and the price had gone up to $18.99!!! It went up $1.49 in about a week. This is robbery. I'm so depressed. The crap I buy at the feed store doesn't have a high fat content and doesn't have actual chicken like Kirkland and is $20 for a 36 pound bag. Well, kitties, you're going to be back on a diet of crap and corn meal unless Mommy can get another job online. Sigh. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island
I could post your plea on the Animal SOS Alert – I don’t know anyone personally since I am in CT, but it might help. The last 2 paragraphs would do. There’s a large number of groups and individual rescuers who participate in this network. This also happens to be a rally bad time with cold weather approaching when truly needy cats need to be taken off the streets right now! Let me know if you would like me to do it and if yo u would like to add anything to it. Would you like to list your telephone number, too? Natalie From: Amanda Vollaro avoll...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Searching For Foster People / No Kill / Rescues in NY on Long Island Hey all, I've been a lurker here for quite a while - lost a batch of yearlings to FeLV about a year ago, and your advice has taught me quite a bit about treatment of young cats that came up positive. I've been lucky in that most of my kitten rescues turned out negative, but I am working with several who are pos and will probably never go neg - it sucks - why are the sweetest ones always pos?! Anyway, I've become overwhelmed with the sheer number of kitties that I'm dealing with (24) and even though I've been working with The Brookhaven Animal Alliance to get them all fixed, I'm at my wits end. I'm trying to find foster parents for at least six little darling 7 month old ragdoll kittens. Some are loners and can go on their own, others could be paired for comfort...they are all indoor-outdoor cats (they have a kitty-run on my deck outside) and every one of them is a love. Does anyone know of anybody doing fostering in my area (Suffolk County) and could you please let me know their contact info? I have tried asking some of the gals that I know, and they are booked up solid. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: 9 kittens, one testing pos
Janine, As I understood it, the kitten was only “slightly” positive? This would suggest that the kitten wasn’t born to a FeLV+ mother, but must have picked it up, otherwise the kitten would have tested a definite positive. You can retest in one month, but it may not be enough time for the kitten to have shed the virus while its immune system develops. The re-testing time should be 3 months/90 days after the initial test. It is always suggested that any cat that is tested, FIV/FeLV, should be isolated and retested in 3 months. The test could be negative when taken too soon after exposure – I think that’s when the 28 days comes in, the virus can be detected after that time – but we never have any way of knowing when a cat was exposed. so far, we’ve always been lucky. I forgot that we had an adult cat in 1992 that tested positive; we kept her isolated, and retested in 3 months – she was negative, and was adopted, and dumb adopter let her escape, we personally searched all over for her, but she was never found….. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine paton Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 11:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos Hi Natalie, We are not certain which is this kitten's mom, because the whole colony is mixed up. One mom drops 2 kittens off, another picks them up. They are all sharing. _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, October 8, 2012 11:06:33 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos Janine, you wrote that some of their moms tested negative. How about the positive kitten’s mom - was she pos or neg? I would retest with the ELISA. I find it strange that a kitten would show a weak positive if the mother was positive because their kittens are positive, or should be. If the kitten’s mom is not positive, could this kittens have been exposed to a positive cat and therefore be a weak positive? What was the vet’s explanation? I don’t have much experience with FeLV – I have quite a few FIV. I had a FeLV+ kitten years ago, and he died within 2 months. Last year, I had 2 FeLV+ adult cats (already in the bone marrow), one died of CRF and the other one was adopted by a veterinarian and still doing really well. Those two FeLV+ cats were living with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 months…I have retested, starting with the youngest and oldest, and then everyone in the middle – not a single cat contracted FeLV! I consider myself quite lucky! But there are many on this list who have FeLV+ cats living with healthy ones, some vaccinate the healthy ones, and some do not. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine paton Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:21 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing pos is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month using Elisa? And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, is this good enough? All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just the one a weak pos. I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense to me and keep everyone safe. And foster homes understanding. Thanks, Janine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
I posted it on Monday; Fleabusters They sell nematodes for spraying outside, and also interior products that are safer than the toxic chemicals! http://www.fleabuster.com/Products/Biobusters/nematodes.html Natalie -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:58 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products Nematodes - do you mean like I get for japanese beetles in my yard? If not, what is name and where do I get them? GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: I actually use Frontline on incoming cats with fleas..just that once, then it's the friendly little nematodes! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products I don't believe that the doses would be different because you break the big one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus). I was afraid to do this at first because I thought it might somehow be different than the single doses but if you think about it, there's no sediment at the bottom of the tube. It's all uniformly mixed so no possibility of different strengths from breaking up the tube into smaller doses. What you are paying for in the standard cat dose is the packaging. You are paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one larger plastic tube. I don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that I want to pay $15 extra above the cost of the ingredients. I wish more stuff was on a bring your own bottle basis. Some stuff in the grocery store is sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics. Everything else is over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or whatever, you either toss the package, bottle into the landfill or you have to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with curbside pick-up. I have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution into cat size doses for years. Haven't tried Advantage though because it goes by weight and that's a little more work intensive, since I have several cats who can't fit through the doorway and several more who could slip through the keyhole. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote: My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same ingredients may be different. The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I cannot do this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a pop, every month, I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from CAnada or overseas and dose down from the big dog size. However, dosing down from the big dog size MUST be carefully figured out so the cats are not hurt. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize children's feelings for animals! -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and think they have rights. I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer because I would have to kill the animals. One look in their eyes and that would be it for me. These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you turn tail and run for shelter. That is why I am not too keen on 4H. They hand raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and then after the fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter. A betrayal is ever I saw one. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FeLV chart from Sharyl - in case you missed it!
Janine, in case you missed it on October 4th. This is a very helpful chart from Sharyl - explains the 30 day - 90 day testing recommendations and exposure to FeLV! Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Janine, 1st thank you for helping all these cats and kittens in such a responsible manner. Here is the link to a chart I have found very helpful in explaining testing for FeLV http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html As I understand it the IFA test requires the virus to be in the kittens bone marrow which takes time. Sometimes positive test are incorrect perhaps due to the handling of the test. Timing is very important. If left too long before reading they will give a positive result for a negative cat. Hope Bella tests negative next time Sharyl From: janine paton patonjan...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Hello, I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin. Trying to find testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 30 kittens last year and none of them tested pos. We just took 9 kittens within a few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered. There were a few newcomers - mostly toms. All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out to lab. Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each other's kittens. A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this! My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that doesn't mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos. My thinking is that more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. Looking for guidance - Thank you, Janine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
I agree with you – if it entailed great organic farming, 4-H would be very worthwhile! I put that in the same category as a parent last year , as punishment, made the child kill their cat, or some morons punishing their children by throwing their pets out of the windows in multi-storied buildings! That borders on child abuse! Children are naturally dawn to animals, and when they rear an animal until adulthood, they love it – then giving it up to be slaughtered is definitely a shock to some kids (not all!), and they will never forget it. I also dislike Heifer International, where they give a village a cow or a goat (to supply milk, or whatever) – but doesn’t a cow have to be kept pregnant in order to lactate – DUH! Most of the time, the village is so poor, no water, totally arid, and one wonders just how that animal will survive without food and water……and they always show the people all laughing and smiling, pictured with the donated animal….it’s almost as bad a sending them a lawn mower or snow plow. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 7:41 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting I think the chicken would have a different opinion as to whether she is food or not. The main thing is that humans are omnivorous. We can survive quite nicely without ever eating an animal or even eating animal products. Killing a chicken, a cow, a pig, a lamb, a rabbit, a fox for his fur, a fish because he doesn't have legs and lives in water instead of air is just not right. I can't do it because I have a choice and I choose to allow members of other species to live. It don't feel that 4H would be a bad idea if the kids were growing giant tomatoes and pumpkins. I applaud farming, especially organic farming. But raising a 700 pound pig or steer called Baby and then winning over a thousand dollars so Baby can be turned into bacon or steaks is just not my idea of teaching kids ethics. What it is is teaching kids that sometimes it's OK to send your friend off to be slaughtered. Lots of 4H kids are traumatized when the final day comes and they have to leave their friend and know he or she is going to be killed. Even the money is not solace. So what type of lesson do they learn? That they have just taken part in a ritualized and accepted form of murder. Think about how horrified we are if we hear about some country where killing dogs and cats for food is acceptable. Why do we consider some animals food and some as respected companions and family members? When you think about that, maybe you won't be a 4H enthusiast any more. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting I don't think 4H is that bad, is a great way for agriculture’s future leaders to learn first-hand the ins and outs of the livestock business, and it’s an outstanding activity to keep young people busy, engaged and out of trouble in the summer months, most state fairs are family events, they have contests, and it's hard work. I know a lot of the local farmers in my area use it as an advantage to buy cattle and sell them as well. Plus, they are always cleaning up after these animals at the fairs, I mean they are on show you know? I guess it's all about how you raise your kids. My girlfriend always raised chickens for the county fairs and at the end of the season the chicken would become dinner or into the freezer. I know this sounds gruesome but the logic was it was home grown without chemicals, and the chicken is food. ~ * Joslin Irene *~ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize children's feelings for animals! -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and think they have rights. I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer because I would have to kill the animals. One look in their eyes and that would be it for me. These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you turn tail and run for shelter. That is why I am not too keen on 4H. They hand raise the animal
Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver
That's great news; you must be relieved!~I just don't understand why your vet would have even considered the possibility of FeLV/FIV if the cat was always indoors! There are so many other reasons for those symptoms! The whole thing seems odd! You may want to look into and consider RenAvast for Oliver's kidneys! www.renavast.com - there have been some excellent results! Our 18+ Spook has been on RenAvast and just now has CRF which I am treating with daily sub-q fluids, RenAvast, Calcitriol, and Pepcid AC. BTW - for chin acne, use only non-porous dishes like ceramic, glass, stainless steel - not plastic! ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL, ISN'T IT? Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver Don, How cool that this worked out so well! I hope that acne clears up quickly. ;-) Skritches to Oliver. Diane R. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver Just an update. I took Oliver in today as he has some pretty bad acne on his chin and while we were there I had them do a retest (snap) FIV/leukemia test. He was negative for both, so it appears as the first positive test we got about a month ago was a false positive and the infection he had was likely just another virus. We pretty much expected this once the IFC tests were both negative but it was nice to have confirmation. Thanks for the all the replies with advice. Don and Oliver On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Don mosquito.d...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Our boy Oliver, has been doing well since his brothers passing due to CRF last Feb but in the past year or so we have seen some signs that we had been reading as old age (less grooming, weight loss...he just turned 15 this August). Thursday night he was acting lethargic and seemed to be warm to the touch. I dropped him off at our vet who suggest it might just be a virus (most of this blood panel was good, except a low white blood cell count, now 2% below normal HCT values since July, and a 105 F temperature). He suggested we might test him for leukemia and FIV as he wanted to rule it out even though Oliver has always been an indoor cat (he used a ELISA snap test...as far as we know he has never been tested for feLV or FIV). The bad news came later when he called to say he was positive for both. He said the FIV could be false if Oliver was every given an FIV vaccination (he has), but the other was likely true (and also explained the low white count and the fever, and now in retrospect some of the other issues). The vet thinks he may have had this all his life and is just now experiencing the symptoms. So now he is home and although I have read up some and don't see much hope, I wondered if anyone can offer any advice. We have sent the blood off to get the more sophisticated test but won't hear back until next week. Our vet, who is the best I have had, suggested perhaps he will last a few weeks or months, given that he is showing signs that his body might be losing the battle (low white cells, anemia). I'm trying to be optimistic, but with no treatments I know this is probably a battle we cannot win. Here are my questions: 1. We have 2 other cats who we think have had the feLV booster recently (they are 14 and 16 years old and got the immunization as kittens). Are they in danger? If they got shots as kittens would they be still safe? We have Oliver with his own litter box and am making sure they use separate water and food bowls. There is not grooming among them. 2. Is there anyway to know if Oliver can still fight off the virus and become free of it? If he did have it for 14-15 years, then why does he have symptoms now? If it was a recent exposure (we cannot think of any way he would have gotten it) then could he still be fine? 3. He seems fine now (no fever, eating, drinking, using the litter box, etc.) so is this a good sign that perhaps he is able to fight it off or is this just a false hope. 4. If the other test is positive, would anyone suggest using the LTCI treatment? I have not found good scientific info on it's effectiveness although there appear to be no major side effects. Thanks. Don and Oliver ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off topic: President
Diane R., not only are you pretty sure - you are absolutely correct! Not to mention what Mitt and Paul intend to do: Get rid of Planned Parenthood which screens women for cancer, has helped a friend of mine numerous times because she can't afford to go to a doctor; reverse Roe V. Wade, getting women killed in back alleys, adopt personhood which will make certain birth control illegal and criminal, overturn Obamacare but promises to keep pre-existing conditions clause (although it applies ONLY to people who have had long-time insurance, not for new applicants with pre-existing conditions!) and women will automatically be back at the status of having pre-existing conditions just because they're women,just to mention a few. An American friend is retired in Belgium and my husband just came back from Sweden - people there cannot believe that this is part of US politics! Even though many European countries are Catholic or of other religions, they do not meddle in people's bedrooms! -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 10:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Um, I don't think the guy who was President the last 4 years caused ANY of the problems you mention. In fact, I know he didn't. I'm pretty sure in fact that his predecessor did, and the new person is from that same party and has that same agenda. We had the worst recession since 1929, and if you've read any American History, that catastrophe took almost 10 years to recover from, and that was with Congress more or less working together. Diane R. -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] President Ok.. you are profiling and that is just plain wrong:) If we have the past 4 yours as the next 4 years, there will be a mass revolt. Seriously, from mass job losses, no growth of our country, the division of our country, we have to take a chance on a new person:) It can't get any worse. That is my 2 cents! Now , back to our Felv + kitties. I am fairly new to this group and joined because of losing my cat, Prancer. He lived for 9+ years, a very healthy life. Then bang, like a whirlwind, we lost him. So my two questions to this group is the following: ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off Topic, but for cats! University of Wisconsin: Stop Experimenting On Cats |
Two worthy petitions to sign Please sign the petition asking University of Wisconsin to stop all experiments on cats and ask the NIH to stop funding this cruelty everywhere it takes place. http://www.change.org/petitions/university-of-wisconsin-stop-experimenting- on-cats http://www.change.org/petitions/university-of-wisconsin-stop-experimenting-o n-cats Another link you may find interesting: http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-dissection-of-cats-by-15-year-old-palm -beach-county-students http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-dissection-of-cats-by-15-year-old-palm- beach-county-students http://thetalesofawriter.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/university-of-wisconsin-st op-experimenting-on-cats/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hartz
Hartz products have caused more death in animals than any others…convulsions, seizures, liver damage, you name it. Why their products aren’t banned really is amazing! Liter, especially clumping litter, should be banned – I have tons of info on it, how a company responded to a concerned cat owner, “Buyer beware”. I discourage all my adopters from using it. Sodium bentonite is fatal to cats if they inhale it, eat it, inadvertently when cleaning themselves – or kittens, while playing. People always seem to think that if something is expensive, it must be the best – and they want the best for their cats! Hartz litter is pretty disgusting, too! Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:31 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hartz Too bad their FB page doesn't allow comments. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: I know this sounds minor, but their cat litter ( I bought it in my small town because I'm 30 miles from a Walmart, and was in desperate need), anyway, their cat litter could cause emphysema in the cats that use it and the owners that scoop it! I was appalled and promptly sent them an email letting them know it. THEY SUCK! Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:54 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: On 10-05, Lee Evans wrote: PLEASE, whatever you do, don't buy Hartz products. They are a company that doesn't care if animals die from their terrible flea and tick products or are paralyzed for life. Thanks for bringing this up, Lee. I learned the hard way and used Hartz flea stuff for cats on one of my rescues, and he died in days from liver failure. I am appalled that this company is allowed to sell their stuff. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos
Janine, you wrote that some of their moms tested negative. How about the positive kitten’s mom - was she pos or neg? I would retest with the ELISA. I find it strange that a kitten would show a weak positive if the mother was positive because their kittens are positive, or should be. If the kitten’s mom is not positive, could this kittens have been exposed to a positive cat and therefore be a weak positive? What was the vet’s explanation? I don’t have much experience with FeLV – I have quite a few FIV. I had a FeLV+ kitten years ago, and he died within 2 months. Last year, I had 2 FeLV+ adult cats (already in the bone marrow), one died of CRF and the other one was adopted by a veterinarian and still doing really well. Those two FeLV+ cats were living with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 months…I have retested, starting with the youngest and oldest, and then everyone in the middle – not a single cat contracted FeLV! I consider myself quite lucky! But there are many on this list who have FeLV+ cats living with healthy ones, some vaccinate the healthy ones, and some do not. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine paton Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:21 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing pos is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month using Elisa? And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, is this good enough? All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just the one a weak pos. I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense to me and keep everyone safe. And foster homes understanding. Thanks, Janine _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Fri, October 5, 2012 8:52:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) I agree, they have been very civil! Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) Thanks, Lee, I was about to say that I have never seen anyone not get responded to on this list in their time of need and emotional turmoil. Going offtopic is almost inevitable when you’re on a specialized list like this. I think the OT discussion has been amazingly civil and respectful. As it happens, I will be voting Democrat because I feel they are in touch with, and care about, the people that the Republicans have referred to as the 47% they’re not interested in reaching. My reasons have to do with the way the most vulnerable among us would be treated under each party. I feel people like most of us, who are sort of getting by or not quite getting by or getting by only because we get a pension or disability or whatever, need people in government who are interested in reaching us. Diane R. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:54 PM To: felvtalk Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject) In the middle of our chit-chat about politics and hunters and vegetarian diets, if someone had come in with the subject line: Cat Bitten by Cobra, we would have been off the chatty stuff in an instant and onto Google to look up what could be done for the cat while the caregiver was taking him to the vet emergency clinic. So if we wander around the hospital isles occasionally when everyone is asleep and babble a bit, don't worry. We can switch in a moment. I actually did switch when I saw how agonized you were and posted about vets treating FeLv cats differently from non-FeLv cats to get us back on topic. But occasionally on every specialized list I have been on there is a subject with OT listed and then it's either a funny article copied from a magazine or other online source or some cute pictures of cats doing silly things, or even a heated political discussion about who will be President and how it would effect our ability to financially keep our heads above water and still feed our rescues and take our cats to the vet when needed. It really does tie into the FeLv+ cat group because we are very money intensive in trying to keep our rescued special needs cats as healthy as can be for as long as can be. If I lose my Social Security and Medicare benefits or they are reduced, I would have to cut down on food for myself and air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter to pay my mortgage on this house that I bought to keep my cats safe from being seized by Animal Control in a city where there are cat limits. Even though I still work and have an online job, I would be in dire straits. So it is very important to my cats who I vote for. And since I live in a rural area, hunting becomes a problem for me also. If the NRA
Re: [Felvtalk] SuzieQ
No, Edna, you did the right by taking her in! Strangely, I have never had a cat who longed to be outside - they never try to sneak out! But, we have nice outdoor runs for them, maybe that's their chance to get nose-to-nose with some wildlife who always seem to be either performing or teasing the cats! I am so sorry she's not doing well! She probably is ready to go - I feel that once the light has gone out of their eyes, let them go. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 10:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] SuzieQ We have tried everything and nothing is working, she is not eating at all anymore and I believe she is ready to go. She looks outside and in my heart I know she just wants to run free so we will let her go tonight. It hurts to feel like we let her down and what if we would have left her outside to run and play and just be a kitty? Bringing them inside can be a double edged sword, they get love and warmth and food but they seem to always long for the days that they were outside and free :( Edna ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Nematodes source
Fleabusters They sell nematodes for spraying outside, and also interior products that are safer than the toxic chemicals! http://www.fleabuster.com/Products/Biobusters/nematodes.html Natalie Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 10:58 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Nematodes Do a search on Amazon for nematodes for fleas and you'll find several Sharyl From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Nematodes Since we live in a safe area with no traffic all my cats go outside except for 3 who never even try. I work hard to keep the fleas down, and use Advantage, flea comb, and flea traps in every room, but I never heard of nematodes. Where do I get them? Lorrie On 10-06, GRAS wrote: All around the house on the grass and under their outdoor enclosures. Do you use nematodes inside your house? I thought they are just for the yard, need soil and water to do their thing. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter
For an average of 70 cats, I cannot afford to dump litter, and or the delightful aroma it would cause if I didn't do it 2x/day or more, as needed. It doesn't matter whether it's dusty or not, clumping litter still contains sodium bentonite, and it doesn't have to be listed on the bag/box. The one and only way of knowing whether it doesn't contain SB, is if it's allowed to be flushed down a toilet; its' a compound used in construction to seal the space between earth and foundation by absorbing 15 times its weight in liquid. It can get into a cat's urethra and cause a blockage, get ingested when grooming and cause intestinal blockage or when inhaled, turn into a solid block in the lungs by absorbing the moisture. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 6:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter Definitely bending over for any length of time can be a big pain in the back. I pick up my litter boxes and place them on a plastic lawn furniture end table. It raises the box to a level where I can scoop in comfort and the cats like to sit under it and play with my pants leg. 'Stop that, stop that, no claws!! I can't easily get up from those garden kneeler seats because of really weak knees. Whoever coined the term Golden Years was probably not yet 18. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter Yep, my college degree sits behind me at my desk doing me absolutely no good whatsoever ;) _ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 14:19:58 -0700 From: moonsiste...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter I have 40 cats so any cat litter expense is going to be flushing money down the drain or into the garbage. I use pine pellets which cost $6.00 for 40 lbs. at Tractor Supply. At that price my cats can poop and pee in luxury. The pine breaks down to a yellow powder though and I have to sweep it up all the time to prevent my cat room from looking like a weird beach because the cats dig and then track with their paws. Yellow, yellow everywhere. I use a light weight variable length squeegee to sweep because a broom just makes all that yellow go airborne. At least there is no initial dust up when I pour the pine and it really deodorizes the contents of the litter box unless I don't dump it often enough. I dump and wash and refill about every 3 days, scoop the poop every day. Lots of work. For this I needed a college degree? Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter I use scoopable litter, but I use the dust free kind. Some scoopable litter is so dusty clouds of it billow up and this is obviously bad stuff. I never use any scoopinig litter with small kittens, but with as many grown cats as I have (total 24) I use very large litter boxes and I simply can't lift them (to dump) when they are filled with the clay litter. I have painful arthritis and I'm ancient... almost 80. I'd really like to hear from others on the list about who uses clay litter and who uses scoopable. Fresh Step and Tidy Cat scoopable don't seem to have any dust at all, but it's scary to think scoopable litter is so bad. Lorrie On 10-08, Natalie wrote: Liter, especially clumping litter, should be banned - I have tons of info on it, how a company responded to a concerned cat owner, Buyer beware. I discourage all my adopters from using it. Sodium bentonite is fatal to cats if they inhale it, eat it, inadvertently when cleaning themselves - or kittens, while playing. People always seem to think that if something is expensive, it must be the best - and they want the best for their cats! Hartz litter is pretty disgusting, too! Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off topic: Disproving nonsense about snopes Soros
Unfortunately, I had to erase that mailing so that this can go through. But you will see it in some of the links below, if you care to see that it's nonsense. Always double check, that's the problem, because there's a lot of untruth everywhere! If you go to all the fact checkers, believe me, you will see that all this is absolute nonsense! The mailing you sent is specifically mentioned as being pure fiction. Such urban legends are a dime a dozen, about anyone you can think of. http://www.goodsearch.com/search/web?utf8=%E2%9C%93keywords=George+Soros+connection+to+www.snopes.com%3F A whole page of Soros and snopes! Unfortunately, what someone sent you is truly right-wing conspiracy theories! This should thoroughly add to disproving that ridiculous stuff that goes around! No matter what my political leanings, I always check it out, no matter about whom this garbage is written. I can't imagine why anyone would write stuff like that, is that all they do? http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-09-28/story/fact-check-so-whos-checking-fact-finders-we-are http://zyzmog.blogspot.com/2012/04/snopes-and-george-soros-connection.html About snopes.com:, on snopes: http://www.snopes.com/info/aboutus.asp - which is proven to be correct when checked on other sources. Co-founder Greg Mikkelson (co-founder wife) is a registered Republican, and yet manages to remain unbiased about both parties.! http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/s/snopes.htm -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 11:19 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] O T - SNOPES Hi ~ just my opinion, I had always wondered, Why should we believe Snopes.com? Who is checking on them to make sure they are telling the truth and have facts. I went on their site along time ago and there was nothing that convinced me they would know anymore than anyone else that knows how to work, or manipulate computers. The bottom line is if anyone ever REALLY wants to know the truth about anything said, or on-line, you have to research/investigate it yourself. IF I care enough, that is what I do. I learned that lesson the hard way many years ago.. IF anyone cares enough to go outside of Snopes.com to research the information below to see if it is true ~ your choice. Why would this person not be telling the truth anymore than Snopes.com? My point is why should anyone believe Snopes.com. Who are they really.and. the truth has to be searched for, not provided by a ghost on line. Just my two cents~ **Read below** (I did not write this, but it sure has me wondering) SNOPES NO MORE - A MUST READ I HOPE THIS OPENS EYES AND MINDS. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] OT - interesting article on why cats die- PetPlace.com
Interesting article: http://view.ed4.net/v/8M7W90Q/9ZXMB/75OD6PV/2VB49/FORMAT=H?utm_source=catcra zynews http://view.ed4.net/v/8M7W90Q/9ZXMB/75OD6PV/2VB49/FORMAT=H?utm_source=catcr azynewsutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=CatTrafficutm_content=CC-20121007-2-% 5bT%5demail=at...@optonline.net utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=CatTrafficutm_content=CC-20121007-2-[T]emai l=at...@optonline.net ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again
That’s what my vet gives me – Cyproheptadine (Periactin) – ¼ pill does a good job. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 9:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again Another brain cell woke up and reminded me that there's also an antihistamine called Ciproheptadine. I'm thinking that this is the one they use as an appetite stimulant. I just Googled it and sure enough, this is the one. If you want more information on getting your cat to eat go to the following Website: Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease. The URL is: www.crf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm There are some other hints on getting an anorexic cat to chow down also. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again I have been trying that, she eats just a smidge and then turns away :( Thank you :) Poor thing is just wasting away and I feel so helpless :( Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:58:20 -0400 From: ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again You can try gerber stage2 baby food...the meat kind (ham, beef, turkey, etc). Not all thw nutrition a cat needs but it gets them something. Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Not really, you can always find out what's true or not: All you have to do is check on either www.snopes.com (on any floating around rumors, even silly ones), or www.factcheck.org - political, lots already to choose from, and if you don't see what you need, write in the topic on top right, and search. Natalie -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Problem is that there are so many rumors floating around in print and cyber space that it makes it hard to discren the truth. Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com wrote: We probably should not. But it is in fact true, although it got taken off the table fairly early when the Dems realized it would never fly in that political atmosphere. So what we have is a slight improvement on the Republican health care plan. Diane R. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Terri Brown Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 7:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President This is why I don't think we should be discussing this on this list. - Original Message - From: Lorrie mailto:felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President It is true. On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote: I don't know where you heard that Lorrie, but it's not true. Terri ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
It's true about declawing...people NEVER knew how awful it was, they thought it's like a manicure! Vets who suggest it are in it to make money, that's all! Most of them, I can guarantee, have no idea (or don't care to know) about side effects, emotional and physical. 1) people abandon declawed cats because of urinating outside the litter box, 2) cats become totally unpredictable/bite, and 3) going into deep depression. So, when people tell me that their cats were absolutely normal, how would they know that? What is normal? I've had a few declawed rescues - each one, without fail, peed everywhere. I had to get piddle pants for them! One would bite for absolutely no reason (that I saw), but he had a good reason! Yes, there are some cats that seem not to be affected, at least outwardly, and people even allow them to go outside, which it the worst thing to do. A friend declawed her two cats when she adopted a baby. Both cats bit the baby really hard when their tails or ears were pulled, and guess what happened to the cats? -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 12:12 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) But isn't it the different opinions and even judgementalism that sparks new ideas, makes people think? No, we should not get nasty, but especially declawing, that is so detrimental to the cat. Isn't it better to find a solution for the clawing on furniture, find out why the cat is doing it. Then we can corrrect the situation. One thing I have learned thru the years is that most BAD cat behavior is caused by their people's actions or lack of understanding. Kelley S moonv...@gmail.com wrote: I think yall misunderstand. I don't care about off topic posts and we used to talk about everything under the sun. It's the JUDGEMENTALISM that has been creeping in for a long, long time. Declawing I don't do it, but one of our valued long term list members (at least I hope she is even still here) volunteers for a rescue that has 2 parts, an FELV sanctuary and an adoptable cat rescue - and all the adoptable cats are routinely declawed by the rescue owner, a veterinarian. Now I'm sure just this post will generate about a month long argument, which is kind of my point about judgement. And let a breeder come on here and dear Lord. More judgement. I hate fighting and judging. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org wrote: I understand the purpose of this group, but I think it’s up to the mod to decide of OT posts are permitted. I found the OT subjects interesting, but when I didn’t feel like reading any more, I used the magical delete key.I t part, those who have participated in the OT discussions have made their points very respectfully and without insult. (I’m not sure I can say the same regarding the comment that the list has gone way, way downhill.) I hope we call all agree to disagree as necessary while remaining dedicated to the FeLV+ kitties that need us. **I do rescue and joined this group when one of our rescues tested positive. He was adopted more than a year ago, but I’ve stayed on the list because of the kindness and compassion of the folks here. I don’t think the list has gone downhill at all and I’m sure that if someone poses a question about a cat in need, focus will quickly be redirected.** ** Cindy** *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kelley S *Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2012 2:46 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) I have to agree - this list used to be such a positive influence in my life - I joined years ago when I had a kitten test false pos - and I stayed because the people were so wonderful. It has gone way, way downhill. *** * On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com wrote: I have been with this list since my kitten developed Feline Leukemia in 2006. I have seen it go way off topic and people that have been invaluable leave. I realize I don’t post often, but as I am with many animal groups I do send people that are struggling. It was most disheartening to know that they were not able to get help, but did learn that people hated their beliefs. They just needed guidance because they are dealing with this for the first time. This has always been a place to hear the newest treatments and for those given grim news the knowledge that there is always hope. *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Lee Evans *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:47 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products
Definitely; my vet said that cats had convulsions from Revolution – it treats so many things, contains more poisons! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 12:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products Advantage is safer than is Revolution for cats, or so my then-vet said. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:51 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: I GOT rEVOLUTION ONCE AND IT CAUSED THEM TO LOOSE THEIR HAIR AT THE APPLICATION POINT. THEN THE HAIR CAME BACK IN SNOW WHITE. NOT TOO FOUND OF THAT. VET AGREED AND WE STOPPED IT. Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm not sure that fleas can become immune to meds. The ones who are on the cat die. The ones who hatch from the floor jump on the cat, die. The ones who lay eggs are apparently still alive so how can they become immune to a product? Unless Super Flea survives the treatment and goes on to reproduce. But it's probably a good idea to switch products any way. Some are good for treating heavy flea infestations (Frontline Plus) and some have mange, worm prevention also, Revolution. I have not had good results with Revolution on fleas although it's great for preventing mange and sometimes reducing infestation of earmites. I find that Advantage is also good for heavy flea infestation but I haven't tried it yet. I have Frontline Plus right now and am on my way to treat the little lions, tigers and panthers. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:06 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products Well I Googled before did again. The only thing I can find is that some cats are more prone to Moxidectin toxicity, which is why you have to be so careful about dosages. The Multi formula has meds for fleas - Imidacloprid heartworm larvae - Moxidectin Either way the dog Multi has bit had much effect on my cats this year. I've heard some people say you should switch products periodically to keep the fleas from becoming immune to the meds. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] NY - Does Anyone know of a CAT SANCTUARY FOR: Feline Leukumia kitties?
Any advice for this rescue person? Natalie Hi, please contact wellbeing...@gmail.com http://mailto:wellbeing...@gmail.com if you have the info. From: wellbeing...@gmail.com wellbeing...@gmail.com Subject: Re: FeLeuk Date: Thursday, October 4, 2012, 11:45 PM We have a darling kitten,who's been beautifully fostered and about to be placed in a fabulous home; was diagnosed with FeLV today. Do any of you have any sanctuaries or homes which could take this sweet kitty? Please let us know. Many thanks! Ms. Gregg Mayer Certified Integrative Yoga Therapist 500 Hr. RYT Kripalu Yoga Instructor Certified Pilates Instructor www.angelfire.com/ct3/wellbeings77/ ~ All Sentient Beings, Inc. (Animal Rescue, Information Clearinghouse) All Sentient Beings, Inc. is a registered 501 (c)(3) nonprofit organization in the United States ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] O T
My mother-in-law is in Sweden, at 94 1/2, she lives alone, gets someone coming in 6 times a day, bring her 3 meals, help her up, get to bed, etc. clean her place. It costs $200/month. Yes, they paid into it all their lives, but she'll never go bankrupt or be subjected to a horrible place when time comes to move to a nursing home. Father-in-law had a sunny private room, great care for $10/day! -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 6:28 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] O T On 10-04, GRAS wrote: Obama ideally wanted single-payer. Yes, and it is shameful that America, supposedly the greatest county in the world, lets it's people go without medical help. Every other first world country has single payer. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products
That's what happened to cockroaches - they survived since the Ice Age, and requires more lethal stuff to kill them -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 6:45 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products Yes the surviving fleas become super fleas and the treatments we now use don't bother them. When they breed their offspring are also super fleas. The same thing is happening with antibiotics. They have been overused and bacteria has become super bacteria that nothing kills! This is really scary!! Lorrie On 10-05, Beth wrote: I guess that is the problem - they are survivng the treatment. They are surviving in droves at my house. I have to flea comb every other day. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations
I wouldn't do it, and if by law, you have to give them rabies vaccines, try to get a waiver from your veterinarian. It's not good to bombard compromised immune systems with all those vaccines. I would say, maybe the initial series of FVRCP, which technically should protect them for life (not that they say though!). -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 6:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations What are your opinions on vaccinating FelV positive kittens?? They are 5 months old and should have their first vaccinations, but I've had immune compromised kittens die from them, so I worry. They do not go outside but are confined to three large rooms in my cat sanctuary. Lorrie On 10-05, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: There seem to be a lot of questions about the flea meds. I am having enough problems in deciding to vaccinate or not. I have a couple who never go outside so are not exposed to critters that might infect them and 1 is 14 years old. I am afraid that vaccinating her at that age might do more harm than good. The others only go out for an hour or 2 and most of the time they are on the deck laying in the sun. Rabies is required here, but not the others. I do give the negative cats the FELV vaccine since I have 2 positives. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
I joined this list a few years ago when I got two adult FeLV cats, and I have absolutely no complaints - how can anyone think that this group has gone downhill with so many knowledgeable, wonderful and caring contributors just because we go off-topic once in a while? It usually happens when no one has any dire FeLV emergencies, and then there are times when it's nothing but FeLV issues. I belong to several groups, and this often happens in a lull. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley S Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) I have to agree - this list used to be such a positive influence in my life - I joined years ago when I had a kitten test false pos - and I stayed because the people were so wonderful. It has gone way, way downhill. On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com wrote: I have been with this list since my kitten developed Feline Leukemia in 2006. I have seen it go way off topic and people that have been invaluable leave. I realize I don't post often, but as I am with many animal groups I do send people that are struggling. It was most disheartening to know that they were not able to get help, but did learn that people hated their beliefs. They just needed guidance because they are dealing with this for the first time. This has always been a place to hear the newest treatments and for those given grim news the knowledge that there is always hope. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) Don't fret Elizabeth. Occasionally we get a little off topic but we soon get back on the road. Just like you would take a journey and have to pull over to the shoulder of the road to allow your car to cool down we do the same here. We all have different opinions and sometimes we just like to cool down by having a chat with people we feel safe with - people who rescue cats and who understand the ethical decisions we make in not killing those cats who test FeLv+. It feels to me like sitting down to dinner with a church group. We all agree on the religion but we may all approach it in a different way and see it in a different way and even get way off topic and discuss hair styles and shoe styles. If you have a question about feline leukemia, please ask it and we will discontinue our chat about everything under the sun and moon and help you with your issue. Blessings. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject) This list has always been so very helpful-now it is full of judgmental people that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the world hunt-they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the list in the first place. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Asking For Advice Again
I use Cyproheptadine, which I used to take as Periactin liquid, samples from a doc friend, when I was a skinny teenager. I use 1/54 daily for our 18+ yr old CRF cat (he's huge!). From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:17 PM To: felvtalk Subject: [Felvtalk] Asking For Advice Again Certain antihistamines that are given to cats are also an appetite stimulant. Chlorpheneramine is one. I think it's a little yellow pill if I remember correctly. It's better than giving cortisone which also increases appetite but I believe would be contraindicated for a cat who has a malignant tumor. You need to ask your vet about this. It has no harmful side effects as far as I can remember. I gave it to a cat who had terminal salivary gland cancer and it kept her eating right up until the end, that and anti- nausea drugs because she had had a chemo pill every week for several months to stop the growth of the tumor. I have since decided that that treatment, the chemo pill was a waste of $2000. Another cat who had a tumor in a different location lived just about as long as Baby Face, without getting chemo. Chemo is also very hard on other organs, causing diarrhea, fur loss and exhaustion. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Asking For Advice Again
Sorry, I meant to write ¼ and NOT 1/54 my fingers just went crazy .. From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:51 PM To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Asking For Advice Again I use Cyproheptadine, which I used to take as Periactin liquid, samples from a doc friend, when I was a skinny teenager. I use 1/54 daily for our 18+ yr old CRF cat (hes huge!). From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:17 PM To: felvtalk Subject: [Felvtalk] Asking For Advice Again Certain antihistamines that are given to cats are also an appetite stimulant. Chlorpheneramine is one. I think it's a little yellow pill if I remember correctly. It's better than giving cortisone which also increases appetite but I believe would be contraindicated for a cat who has a malignant tumor. You need to ask your vet about this. It has no harmful side effects as far as I can remember. I gave it to a cat who had terminal salivary gland cancer and it kept her eating right up until the end, that and anti- nausea drugs because she had had a chemo pill every week for several months to stop the growth of the tumor. I have since decided that that treatment, the chemo pill was a waste of $2000. Another cat who had a tumor in a different location lived just about as long as Baby Face, without getting chemo. Chemo is also very hard on other organs, causing diarrhea, fur loss and exhaustion. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
I agree, they have been very civil! Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) Thanks, Lee, I was about to say that I have never seen anyone not get responded to on this list in their time of need and emotional turmoil. Going offtopic is almost inevitable when you're on a specialized list like this. I think the OT discussion has been amazingly civil and respectful. As it happens, I will be voting Democrat because I feel they are in touch with, and care about, the people that the Republicans have referred to as the 47% they're not interested in reaching. My reasons have to do with the way the most vulnerable among us would be treated under each party. I feel people like most of us, who are sort of getting by or not quite getting by or getting by only because we get a pension or disability or whatever, need people in government who are interested in reaching us. Diane R. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:54 PM To: felvtalk Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject) In the middle of our chit-chat about politics and hunters and vegetarian diets, if someone had come in with the subject line: Cat Bitten by Cobra, we would have been off the chatty stuff in an instant and onto Google to look up what could be done for the cat while the caregiver was taking him to the vet emergency clinic. So if we wander around the hospital isles occasionally when everyone is asleep and babble a bit, don't worry. We can switch in a moment. I actually did switch when I saw how agonized you were and posted about vets treating FeLv cats differently from non-FeLv cats to get us back on topic. But occasionally on every specialized list I have been on there is a subject with OT listed and then it's either a funny article copied from a magazine or other online source or some cute pictures of cats doing silly things, or even a heated political discussion about who will be President and how it would effect our ability to financially keep our heads above water and still feed our rescues and take our cats to the vet when needed. It really does tie into the FeLv+ cat group because we are very money intensive in trying to keep our rescued special needs cats as healthy as can be for as long as can be. If I lose my Social Security and Medicare benefits or they are reduced, I would have to cut down on food for myself and air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter to pay my mortgage on this house that I bought to keep my cats safe from being seized by Animal Control in a city where there are cat limits. Even though I still work and have an online job, I would be in dire straits. So it is very important to my cats who I vote for. And since I live in a rural area, hunting becomes a problem for me also. If the NRA controls the government, then my 3 outside cats and my peacock are in danger. I actually hear gunshots sometimes in the daytime on weekends and it makes me tremble. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
Has anyone used the friendly nematodes to spray around the house? That’s all we use – except for a new cat coming in with fleas – they get zapped with it only once, period! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products I'm not a big fan of spot-on flea meds, either, as it only makes scientific sense that some will survive and be resistant to the poison (as with bacteria and abx). I've only had to use them (Advantage, which my vet said is the safest for cats, but your mileage may vary) once when we had a flea infestation that was spreading a red blood cell parasite and taking down the one who originally had it. When I had some pound kitties come in with fleas, I only had to give them one Capstar (works for one day and kills only adult fleas). In both instances, I also cleaned up the floor--which harbors 90% of the fleas (in egg/larvae form)--with a solution of food-grade (note NOT pool grade) diatomaceous earth, water, and non-toxic soap. I have concrete floors, so I just painted this on. (When I use DE dry, it messes up my sinuses and causes headaches, and isn't that good for kitty lungs, either.) I have not had a problem for 2--3 years now. If you have carpets, I've read that vacuuming every day (and disposing of the bag or emptying the canister) will also get most of the eggs. You can also sprinkle DE or salt onto the carpet, brush it in, and leave for a day before vacuuming. On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com wrote: Honestly, I found that a good old fashion bath with dawn dish soap and flea comb has been our best defense this year. ( along with a few house bombs) It sucks having to give everyone a bath but i like it more then putting greasy drops on my pets. From: Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products I bought Frontline for my foster cats last summer and it was completely ineffective. The next time I was at my vet’s office, I mentioned it (because that’s where I bought it). The vet on duty (not my regular) said she had recently heard many similar complaints and surmised that fleas in our area were building an immunity to it. I switched to Advantage and it’s worked well. However, since then, I found a source for a generic equivalent and I’ve been using it for about a year now with no complaints. It’s $10 (free shipping) for 18 treatments for small cats or 9 treatments for larger cats. If anyone is interested, the company is http://www.fleakiller.co/ I have no personal interest in this company or site. I’m just a very satisfied customer. Cindy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Declaw
Did your vet recommend it? I know that Bainfield Health, the veterinary Group with Petsmart, has a package deal on kitten health (DUH), that includes declawing! I wrote to them and got a really stupid letter back - I will post it sometime - just unbelievable! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the reminding information. From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw Also: http:// http://www.pawproject.org/ www.pawproject.org/ Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws. So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain). Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com http://stopdeclaw.com/ a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
Fruitarians – fruit fall off when ripe, eat only raw foods. I eat root vegetables, too much nutrition in them not to, especially beets – I couldn’t live without them. There are actually people who live on energy (Hunzas) – breatherians! Yes, I’ve heard of the book! Good idea – it’s really frustrating when really good friends continue to eat meat, and order horrible things like veal when you go out with them, and then have the nerve to ask, you wanna taste it (even worse, forgetting that we haven’t eaten meat for almost 30 years?) One good fiend never orders meat when we go out….. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't get killed. After I read this, I quit eating root veggies. On the other hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA, except they don't kill them. Have you seen this book? It may be a key to helping transition more people away from eating meat: http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http
[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
Lee, my cat population beats yours! There’s no cat fur in the milk I make – see all the soy milk makers that are available: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=imagefr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker fr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker The one I have is super easy, too – not touched by human hands or cat paws! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:20 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Not sure I could make my own soy milk. I don't much like milk with cat fur in it. I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters. My house was not well organized due to a little mistake in planning. Actually big mistake in planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed. Just talk against anything in the food industry and you've had it. Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken. Sigh. Is this a wonderful country or what! Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his short run for President. Angels from Heaven are rarely elected. He's a wonderful, thoughtful, intelligent and logical man. I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel that we need to eat animals. We are omnivores and have a choice. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was conducive, and I'm sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too. There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit. Some of the Hunzas manage to survive on just energy - not sure how that works, mind over matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the time because of all the available fruit. As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores' are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs. Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying as long as 36 hours, and with weaker digestive juices. If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to change - rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also destroys the planet in more ways than one. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they eat? your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: President
Actually very simple: Romney's dog on top of the car and Obama's dog inside the car. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding between the candidates: I don't think either candidate will directly influence animal cruelty laws or humane practice laws. They've got too much else to worry about, especially right now. Even if they love animals it will not be their priority. So, for this particular election I'm not even considering it. Now obviously if the candidate was a known animal abuser that would be different and would impact my decision. When it comes to animal issues I tend to focus on the legislative branch like Congress and state reps, etc. that would have more influence passing legislation and laws. So, regarding animal welfare I'm basing my decision on who can best help me and other people help the animals and continue our work in animal welfare. It's not what they will do, it's what they will allow me to do. Right now the economy is a problem. People are losing their homes and can't keep their pets. Donations to animal welfare organizations are down so they can't do as much either. Many people like myself feed a bunch of feral cats. It is hard to keep doing that when you can barely afford to feed your family. I volunteer with a local humane society so even in our small part of the world I've seen a major increase in the number of pets surrendered by owners who lost their homes or just left their pets behind. People have to spend more time trying to make ends meet and don't have time to volunteer with animal rescues etc. Just lots of things like that. Considering those kinds of things I'm looking at who can help the economy the most. Each candidate has very different economic policies and very different approaches to boosting our economy. So that's one thing I'm looking at hard - which economic policy do I think will work. I lived in a third world country for two years a long time ago. Their animals were a lot worse off than ours and it wasn't because the people weren't compassionate they just didn't have anything to be able to help their animals. So right now I'm looking at which economic plan will help the country get back on it's feet so we can keep our pets and have time to donate and volunteer to fight for animal protection legislation. Healthcare is definitely something to consider but that's also part of the economic crisis so I'm not going to directly contribute any thoughts on that. I would suggest not looking at just what the candidates say they will do for the animals but look at what will help us do for the animals. They've got too many other issues to tackle. I'd be surprised if either one of them took up one animal issue whatsoever. It's people like us who are working for the animals that make the difference so see what they can do for us and we'll do all the legwork to help the animals. Take a look at the economic plans and that will help influence your decision. I had a few basic economic courses in college so I understand the basics but not all the details. I think if you just look at the basic models without going into too too many details it would be enough to make a decision. But hey, there's lots of other things to consider but that's where I'm at when I think about what will help the animals the most. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Does this happen with all species? I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably better to try to get numbers down. I prefer the methods some used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their hormones by taking out the sex organs. That said, we're real good at exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their fetuses. Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition. The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite predation (of any sort). This is why if you want to reduce a species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up some of that capacity. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%. It’s just nature’s way! In fact, predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals. No, I do not eat any meat. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats
And the question is WHY? I have a feeling a lot of it isn't JUST plain ignorance (although I hate to admit, many are just that!), it may be the cost of spaying/neutering - prices on the Easdt Coast can be up to $400 for a female cat! Yes, there are low-cost certificates available, but how many veterinarians participate? Many are in it just for the money, and yet, they don't realize that by performing the surgery, they could actually gain a client for life! It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face Some larger humane groups also offer their own pre-paid spay/neuter at time of adoption, but the rate of actually taking advantage of the already prepaid surgferiesare really low, that's why many spay/neuter little kittens before they are adopted! We work with two veterinary groups and get a nice discount, although the larger group just informed us that the 50% is down to 30% (they could certainly afford to keep giving us the old rate...). I also use FoA certificates (www.friendsofanimals.org), and give adopters another option of SPAY/USA at 1-800-248-SPAY. It would be great to get more veterinarians to participate in both programs. Natalie -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats Thanks for what you do Natalie. I've been rescuing cats for about 40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building I bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number of kittens being born. People still don't N/S as they find it much easier to dump their unwanted cats. It is difficult not to detest most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about their animals. Lorrie On 10-03, Natalie wrote: Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others' irresponsible behavior, because we care. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
Yes, definitely some people should have been spayed/neutered! The least requirement would be some kind of a course on child-rearing and responsible parenting. I wouldn’t adopt to just anyone – therefore, why should morons have babies and abuse or ignore them? From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:08 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are supposed too... WTH is up with people? From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the intelligent human population. They also treat their children the same way. i know of one who feeds her children cereal because they can get that by themselves. She would prefer to do her heroin instead of cooking. She is now in prison and her children stay with grandparents or roam the streets. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Does this happen with all species? I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably better to try to get numbers down. I prefer the methods some used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their hormones by taking out the sex organs. That said, we're real good at exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their fetuses. Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition. The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite predation (of any sort). This is why if you want to reduce a species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up some of that capacity. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%. It’s just nature’s way! In fact, predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid
Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats
My vet gives discounts to senior citizen, multiple pet households, and of course, rescue groups. If all of us would talk to our vets who do NOT participate in some kind of a program, maybe we could expand the spay/neuter pool and make it more accessible for many more pet owners. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. I am amazed at $400 to fix an animal that is *INSANE* why would anyone even want a pet? I wonder how many people if they contacted their vets would they be interested, I used to go to a vet where they offered discounts if you got more than one animal s/n at a time, this is very rare anymore as well. From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats And the question is WHY? I have a feeling a lot of it isn't JUST plain ignorance (although I hate to admit, many are just that!), it may be the cost of spaying/neutering - prices on the Easdt Coast can be up to $400 for a female cat! Yes, there are low-cost certificates available, but how many veterinarians participate? Many are in it just for the money, and yet, they don't realize that by performing the surgery, they could actually gain a client for life! It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face Some larger humane groups also offer their own pre-paid spay/neuter at time of adoption, but the rate of actually taking advantage of the already prepaid surgferiesare really low, that's why many spay/neuter little kittens before they are adopted! We work with two veterinary groups and get a nice discount, although the larger group just informed us that the 50% is down to 30% (they could certainly afford to keep giving us the old rate...). I also use FoA certificates (http://www.friendsofanimals.org/), and give adopters another option of SPAY/USA at 1-800-248-SPAY. It would be great to get more veterinarians to participate in both programs. Natalie -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats Thanks for what you do Natalie. I've been rescuing cats for about 40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building I bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number of kittens being born. People still don't N/S as they find it much easier to dump their unwanted cats. It is difficult not to detest most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about their animals. Lorrie On 10-03, Natalie wrote: Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others' irresponsible behavior, because we care. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FYI: YouTube video with 11,850 hits!
Here's another YouTube video, proving that sharpshooters are as bad as bowhunters: Rochester Hills, MI (the blood trail), and it had 11,850 hits!!! No gore... Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ1wB0GdaXE ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately, innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the domestic animals, even farm animals. An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr old kid with them, blamed it on him. Turned out, it wasn't. -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake. Lorrie On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to home. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn't really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull. Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield). I'm sure that you will notice that the population doesn't really go down in the long run. I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer biology/reproduction. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as keeping population under control. -Joslin From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately, innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the domestic animals, even farm animals. An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr old kid with them, blamed it on him. Turned out, it wasn't. -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake. Lorrie On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to home. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%. It’s just nature’s way! In fact, predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals. No, I do not eat any meat. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie? From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull. Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield). I’m sure that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long run. I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer biology/reproduction. Natalie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as keeping population under control. -Joslin From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately, innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the domestic animals, even farm animals. An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr old kid with them, blamed it on him. Turned out, it wasn't. -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake. Lorrie On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to home. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his farm.. Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in hell ASPA! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Friends, We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a cat, they are doing their best. At the end of every day, everything we do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help out where you can. however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up for the healthy animals that they put to sleep. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Euthanasia
Fluids are essential to help the body slowly ease into organs shutting down without sudden dehydration, which is supposed to be very painful! It must be individual hospice rules. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:24 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Euthanasia My mom had morphine...hospice wouldn't allow fluids. Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Sep 26, 2012, at 5:43 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: On 09-25, Marcia wrote: My 3 other siblings and I took care of my Mom for 3 weeks while she died at home. Her request(: hospice said no fluid, so she laid there with nothing all that time, struggling to breath, to swallow. Etc. I only cried one time during that 3 weeks, because I had a job to do that required quite a bit of mental strength and clarity. The day I broke down was when Timothy McVay was euthanized. I cried because my mother was suffering and that son of a bitch died effortlessly. People should have that choice and in some countries they do. But not here in the land of the free. That must have been a terrible expeience for you Marcia. Wasn't she given fluids by mouth and morphine? As for McVay - He should have been tortured to death! Criminals also get free surgery and all the other things we don't get. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pets PTS for the wrong reasons!
Some really lazy people use litter box liners for only none reason, to grab the whole liner ONCE a week, and toss it, and start with a new one. No wonder that people with only one cat can have a smelly house! I always explain to adopters who have never had a cat before that it must be cleaned daily, or whenever you happen to witness a litter box visit - how would they like to use a toilet that hasn't been flushed for days? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pets PTS for the wrong reasons! I've seen this entirely too many times. Healthy animals being PTS because selfish people don't want to deal with them anymore. Their reasons for murdering their pets are varied We want to travel and can't be bothered with the cat. The cat leaves hair on my new sofa, and the latest one is the litter box stinks. I asked her how often she scoops and she dodged the question. Her ex said she never scoops! It's hard not to hate people like that. Lorrie On 09-25, Marcia wrote: Yes people suck.a very good friend of mine (who I had in a pedestal) just put her 8 year old perfectly healthy border collie put to sleep. I went to her house to see what happened and she told me that they just didn't want anyone to have to take care of her while they went here and there. I was shocked and It left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I can't stop thinking about it. What is WRONG with people??? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Euthanasia
Maybe that's it; my mother was at a hospital hospice facility! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 4:10 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Euthanasia On 09-26, Marcia wrote: Hospitals aren't good at palliative care. It wasn't that my Mom requested no tubes, it was that Hospice didn't want her to have fluids. They said it would make her uncomfortable. I went toe to toe with that lady. Her Dr said she could have fluids, hospice said no. WOW, that makes me rethink Hospice. IV fluids can be uncomfortable at the site, but definitely more comfortable than dehydration. I wonder if hospice doesn't go for IVs because most hospice workers are volunteers and it would take an RN to insert an IV. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] NY Times: Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Very informative an interesting article, and make sure you check out the ones available within the copy, too! http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/deciding-when-a-pet-has-suf fered-enough.html?src=me http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/deciding-when-a-pet-has-su ffered-enough.html?src=meref=general ref=general ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
There's a thin line between keeping someone alive on all kinds of tubes and heroic measuresone has to really specify, and even then, they won't just give you something.! My mother was at the hospital at the hospice area, after a stroke, with no hope - and she had a living will. She was kept on fluids and morphine, unitl she died. It would have been so much better to have had euthanasia! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. Lorrie alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
People always bring perfectly healthy pets to my vet to put to sleep(he refuses), that, however is NOT euthanasia - many vets do it, many refuse. However, many people are so hung up on having their pets killed, that they won't allow anyone to take them, and insist that the vet kill them. People suck, that's all there is to it. My vet hates euthanasia, something must have happened to him, by law, he has to insert it, but his vet tech actually does it, while he runs out of the room, white as a sheet. I once had to euthanize our very old and sick dog and a cat with cancer, about to die. He just couldn't take two at one time..I was doing better than he was. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's really terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this every day to eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want them any more. They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new sofa. I have a cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was sitting next to who had a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she was having him euthanized because he was an outside cat and it was too much trouble to call him in at night. Another woman brought in her two older cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, obviously still full of life to have them put to sleep because she and her husband were going on a world tour. And a third woman was getting married and her husband to be hated cats so off went her 8 year old Persian mix. Well, not exactly off. I adopted the white cat. I still have him. He tested FIV+ because the woman had not bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's in my little FIV+group, perfectly happy to be indoors. The world tour people left their cats at the vet clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the idiot who was marrying a cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one of the secretaries at the vet clinic. But these success stories happened because I was there and convinced the technician and the secretary that death was unfair to the cats and they agreed. Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the owner. Animals are considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want to feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to kill millions of cats and dogs because there are too many around or they are positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and may never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to murder non-human animals. Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of this or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we keep him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. I don't have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for convenience. I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats and my FIV+ cats. I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit of being useful to them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause me and allow them to pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where they go. I miss them and I accept the grief knowing that they are no longer in pain or distress. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can help keep measures from being started. On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. Lorrie alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays
Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends
If I may offer some advice, don't sedate! My vet hates it because you never know how any cat may react.cats get more frightened by sedation, what's happening to them, than a trip. As long as their cage/carrier is covered, to make them feel safe, there's not much of problem. I have been transporting cats by car and even on the plane in the cabin often, and never used sedation. Some cats were not exactly tame. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jamielynn Storch Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends Just an update. The rescue was unable to offer any assistance with the transport in the time frame needed so they are holding off on getting 2 of the cats there. Instead I will be transporting an FIV+ stressed out kitty on my trek. Wish me luck that his sedatives work! Thanks so much for the offer to help. -- Jamielynn Storch www.jlynnphotographyonline.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends
Yes, Feliway is really good. I thought that they would be medicated with something not being good. I also make sure to spray at least an hour before the cats go into their carrier – if it’s too fresh, they hate it! Have a safe trip! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:24 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends I find that a product called At Ease or Feloway work very well when sprayed into the carrier about a half hour before you put the cat in. Allow it the time to dry, never spray while cat is inside. It really calms them down. I do this when transporting to the vet. Makes a big difference between having a panicked cat in a carrier traveling for a few miles and having a lay back cat having a nap on the way. The worst it can do is nothing. It's not harmful and the cats all react much the same, either calm or not as stressed out as they would be. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends If I may offer some advice, don’t sedate! My vet hates it because you never know how any cat may react…cats get more frightened by sedation, what’s happening to them, than a trip. As long as their cage/carrier is covered, to make them feel safe, there’s not much of problem. I have been transporting cats by car and even on the plane in the cabin often, and never used sedation. Some cats were not exactly “tame”. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jamielynn Storch Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV Transport to Best Friends Just an update. The rescue was unable to offer any assistance with the transport in the time frame needed so they are holding off on getting 2 of the cats there. Instead I will be transporting an FIV+ stressed out kitty on my trek. Wish me luck that his sedatives work! Thanks so much for the offer to help. -- Jamielynn Storch www.jlynnphotographyonline.com http://www.jlynnphotographyonline.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver
What about thyroid? Why the Tapazole? My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver His BUN and Crea are normal. His HCT has dropped from about 30% to 28% since July. Otherwise everything else is normal. On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:29 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: How are Oliver's kidney values? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:58 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver Don, It is amazing that Oliver has lived to be 15 with a FelV+ status. Most of my FelV+ cats either die of anemia or they lose the use of their back legs due to tumors on the spine. If Oliver has made it this long I'd just keep him happy and and give him plenty of TLC. 15 is about the end of life for most cats anyway, and the fact that he lived this long is proof you are taking excellent care of him. As for your other two cats. At 14 and 16, they are also reaching the end of their lives, and I think they will be fine if they haven't gotten the virus so far. Just keep all three of them happy and stress free. This really helps, and I have found heroic measures don't help, they only prolong the inevitable. pain and stress for the time the cat has left as well as well as emotional and financial hell for youself. Lorrie On 09-08, Don wrote: Hello. Our boy Oliver, has been doing well since his brothers passing due to CRF last Feb but in the past year or so we have seen some signs that we had been reading as old age (less grooming, weight loss...he just turned 15 this August). Thursday night he was acting lethargic and seemed to be warm to the touch. I dropped him off at our vet who suggest it might just be a virus (most of this blood panel was good, except a low white blood cell count, now 2% below normal HCT values since July, and a 105 F temperature). He suggested we might test him for leukemia and FIV as he wanted to rule it out even though Oliver has always been an indoor cat (he used a ELISA snap test...as far as we know he has never been tested for feLV or FIV). The bad news came later when he called to say he was positive for both. He said the FIV could be false if Oliver was every given an FIV vaccination (he has), but the other was likely true (and also explained the low white count and the fever, and now in retrospect some of the other issues). The vet thinks he may have had this all his life and is just now experiencing the symptoms. So now he is home and although I have read up some and don't see much hope, I wondered if anyone can offer any advice. We have sent the blood off to get the more sophisticated test but won't hear back until next week. Our vet, who is the best I have had, suggested perhaps he will last a few weeks or months, given that he is showing signs that his body might be losing the battle (low white cells, anemia). I'm trying to be optimistic, but with no treatments I know this is probably a battle we cannot win. Here are my questions: 1. We have 2 other cats who we think have had the feLV booster recently (they are 14 and 16 years old and got the immunization as kittens). Are they in danger? If they got shots as kittens would they be still safe? We have Oliver with his own litter box and am making sure they use separate water and food bowls. There is not grooming among them. 2. Is there anyway to know if Oliver can still fight off the virus and become free of it? If he did have it for 14-15 years, then why does he have symptoms now? If it was a recent exposure (we cannot think of any way he would have gotten it) then could he still be fine? 3. He seems fine now (no fever, eating, drinking, using the litter box, etc.) so is this a good sign that perhaps he is able to fight it off or is this just a false hope. 4. If the other test is positive, would anyone suggest using the LTCI treatment? I have not found good scientific info on it's effectiveness although there appear to be no major side effects. Thanks. Don and Oliver ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
Many of our cats also love vegetarian food.but I do cook meat for them often rather than using Science Diet, when I absolutely must. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:47 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition There's so much corn in cat food that when I opened a can of corn for myself recently, one of my cats ran over and began gobbling it. Sheesh! Since I'm a vegetarian, they don't get leftovers like hamburger and chicken. So they eat my corn and tofu. Weird world. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition Not only are corn, wheat, and soy not cat food (they can't digest veggies very well, much less grains, which can give them diabetes and IBD), but unless the corn and soy are organic, they are most likely GMO, and soy can give cats Hyperthyroidism (I learned this the hard way on a 7-month-old who died). Yes, fish dries the system (ours, too), and is a mercury risk. I've already said what I think about dry food. On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: My Homey has had several bouts of crystals. She liked the Hill's SD canned food, but not the dry. I had taken my guys off Hills because they ahve corn, wheat and soy and they are allergic to those ingredients. I now feed Blue buffalo dry DUCK. We love that and also the duck canned food. We hate chicken and fish which is okay because the vet said fish can be part of the problem. I have tried to get them off the dry, but not too much luck. Right now, Homey is okay. I got water fountains and everyone loves them. It recirculates the water thre a filter. The plastic ones are okay, but need to be cleaned out more often. I got one on line that is stainless steel. Much better, lower profile so I can open cabinet doors without hitting it and it does not need to be cleaned as often. With the fountains, the water is always moving, makes noise and they do drink more water. You might try them. Emma Beauchamp weazy...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello All, My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday night) she contracted a UTI. She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130 dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were present in her bladder. I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D. I bought a bag of Dry Food and a couple of cans of wet. My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled at the dry food and turned away. After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water intake! I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so what kind of food/diet did you switch to? Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well. I used to feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway! So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!! Emma Beauchamp ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org http://www.rescue50.org/ More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
And because it’s expensive, people naturally assume that it must be so much better than other food! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:05 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition I think what really bothers me about Science Diet is that it is a low quality food sold for a very high price AND the general public doesn't know any of this!! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2012, at 12:00 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: Whenever our cats were put on Science Diet, they hated it, lost weight…because they didn’t want to eat it. Wasted a lot food, a lot of money, and didn’t help the cats. It’s disgusting! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:28 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition I absolutely detest Science Diet. Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:08 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: I used Hills on and off for years and found that my cats threw up more often with it. So I finally quit using. Water fountains are great. Not only do the cats drink. They sit for hours watching the water go round and round. Only problem was, two or three of my cats started urinating around the fountain. Maybe they were trying to imitate it. Who knows what goes through the minds of cats. No, they didn't have UTI, just a bit of bad attitude. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition Vets push the Hills because Hills says to. Emma Beauchamp weazy...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello All, My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday night) she contracted a UTI. She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130 dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were present in her bladder. I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D. I bought a bag of Dry Food and a couple of cans of wet. My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled at the dry food and turned away. After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water intake! I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so what kind of food/diet did you switch to? Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well. I used to feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway! So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!! Emma Beauchamp ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet
People always believe that if something is expensive, it MUSDT be good! Well, it's the exact opposite. The only one I ever use is A-D when I have to syringe the food - and I add vitamins minerals to it. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:00 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet On 08-31, Marcia wrote: I think what really bothers me about Science Diet is that it is a low quality food sold for a very high price AND the general public doesn't know any of this!! Science Diet is really crappy food, and it's wrong of vets to push it. Not many people read labels or understand what low quality food it is, and they buy it because their vets sell it. I'm sure vets get a kick back from the company. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off topic: Fleas
I found something that I received from a friend a while back - was someone asking about flea treatments in this group? I think I have used everything you can think of and this is the best stuff I have used. The fleas take one or two steps and they are gone. There is no residual effect, but your house smells like a cedar closet. Best Way is what they sell to spray right on the pet and in your house. Then ProChoice I think is the name of it for your yard. This stuff kills all non beneficial insects but not benefical like bees and butterflies. So daddy long legs will survive but not roaches or mosquites or ticks etc. www.cedarcide.com It is made in Houston, Tx from a specific cedar tree. Susan ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply
Here's some great info on cats: http://www.catinfo.org/ Do your cats not like canned food? Have you ever tried? I would prepare a dish with 1/2 the normal amount of dry food and next to it some canned food. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:24 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply Ok, I goofed. My guys are on dry blue buffalo duck. How do I break the adiction? GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: Feeding dry food to outside cats is often the only option, especially in the winter, so that the food doesn’t freeze. Dry food should never be the ONLY food for cats, but as a supplement, it’s OK. Unfortunately, many people feed only dry food. It was found that dry food is extremely addictive to cats because of what they put into it. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:10 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply The cheapest yet healthiest food I've found is raw that I mix up myself, using balanced recipes online (I can send you links and my own recipe, if you like). I buy at Whole Foods, so I'm paying about twice what you could otherwise---and I'm still only paying about half the amount of the best commercial canned food out there (currently Merrick Before Grain, even though Merrick has had some complaints about their dog food). That's about 70 cents/day/cat, and you could probably be doing it for 35 cents/day/cat. You'll also save on vet bills for diabetes, etc., and they won't be as susceptible to urinary problems, which can kill a male in hours before you even notice it. A local pet store gives me outdated raw and canned food. (I refuse the dry food, as it's so bad for cats.) If you let them know you're feeding ferals, one of yours may do the same. On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: Talk to local rescues. Our rescue strictly uses Science Diet, so when people donate other kinds of food, they give it to volunteers or feral feeders. Sometimes it's really high quality food, sometimes not. We also have something called Daffy's Pet Soup Kitchen which provides food to people who cannot afford it. There are 2 organizations like that in our area. The best thing to do would be to get friendly with a shelter that can provide you with info on resources. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: dot winkler venus7ora...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply Hi Beth - how do I find out about places that donate food? Or how do I get it at cost? I work alone and don't belong to an organization. thanks, Dot _ From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food? Are there any places which donate food in your area? We have several in Atlanta. Also rescues can sometimes get food to feral feeders at cost. You could also set up a Chip-in for people to donate $ for food. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: dot winkler venus7ora...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food? Hi I was reading your mail. What did you mean about that is the price of free food? Do you receive food free for feeding the cats? I do not TNR. I don't belong to any program. Just my lone self feeding the 7 cats. (they are all neutered except 2 by someone else) I have spent so much money on them each week. Money I don't have. It is getting to be a bad situation for me. _ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites?
It’s often difficult because it’s a corona virus. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:05 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites? Isn't it impossible to diagnose FIP? On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:54 AM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: Oh, no – poor baby! I am so sorry! The vet couldn’t think of trying anything else? I also found that when they don’t respond to antibiotics, toxoplasmosis may be present, and it took me over 6 months, 2 yrs ago, of medicating to finally get rid of it – the kitten was negative on everything else. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Forgotten Felines Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites? She also had a fever that wouldn't respond to antibiotics, not even a cool cloth, and diarrhea. Kaya had a vet appointment on Monday and was diagnosed with FIP, so I put her to sleep before it could get any worse =( On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: http://www.medicinenet.com/ascites/article.htm - this should answer some of your questions about ascites. Learn about ascites, accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity. Some common causes of ascites include liver disease or cirrhosis, portal hypertension, cancers. ... We had a cat with cancer, and he had to have ascites drained several times; unfortunately, our vet said that you can’t do it only so often…. Don’t jump to conclusions that it’s FIP!~ Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Forgotten Felines Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 6:01 PM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites? My FeLV+ kitten developed ascites and I'm worried the vet is going to tell me it's FIP. Does anyone know if ascites is ever related to FeLV? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale
Dot, I have access to a large nationwide Animal SOS Alert group - I could put your plea out there. There are an amazing number of animal-caring people in NJ who either belong to rescue groups or work on their own..There's bound to be someone in that area. Just give me the word, and I will do it (I am in CT). Your e-mail address will be the contact. How about your telephone number? And the date starting with the need for someone to do the feeding (your surgery)? Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale Hi Lorrie - The cats are in the Farmingdale area, NJ. I live in neighboring town, Freehold, NJ. Please, please if there is anyone in this group who live near this area, please contact me. It would be such a wonderful thing. Dotty _ From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight Please do NOT involve animal control. Shelters everywhere are FULL and these cats will be euthanized. Are any of them socialized (tame) or are they feral? Ferals are not adoptable. I've been feeding and TNR a colony of feral cats for 10 years now. They count on you for food. Where are you located. Perhaps some of the people in this group can pitch in and help while you recover. On 08-27, dot winkler wrote: Hi. I threw this out there a few weeks ago but don't i know if it went thru - I didn't see any replies. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with outdoor (stray) cat feeding. I have been feeding 7 for a year and a half now. I am going to have arm surgery and will not be able to drive for 6 weeks and will have a very difficult postop recovery. I have no-one else to feed the cats. I am thinking of calling some shelters and maybe simultaneously the newspaper to expose their plight. Perhaps some can be adopted, if a facility would take them in and if they got the proper exposure from the newspaper. I also could try to help in the adoption process. ALSO, my other question is, how long have people been feeding their outdoor cats? I am thinking this cannot go on forever. Where do I find people to help me out with it, if I can't find adoptions? Any input on this, would be great. Thanks __ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale/OK
Not for now – I will use what you wrote – and copy you, OK? Will do it after I take care of our 80 cats (inside), and a few special needs with meds and fluids. Natalie If you want to contact me directly, please use my new address (am slowly easing out of my old one). My new email address is:atia@gmail.com From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale/OK Hi. That would be great Natalie. They can use this e-mail. My home number is 732 780 5530 and cell is 732 610 2098. The surgery date is not yet set as I have been putting it off due to the cats which I can't just abandon. I go to doc tonight for possible shot of cortisone to get me through another 3 or 4 months painfree. The surgery is arthroscopy for calcific tendinitis and the recovery is very difficult and painful. I went through it 5 years ago with the other arm. thanks so much - you guys are great , Dotty Any other info? _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale Dot, I have access to a large nationwide Animal SOS Alert group – I could put your plea out there. There are an amazing number of animal-caring people in NJ who either belong to rescue groups or work on their own..There’s bound to be someone in that area. Just give me the word, and I will do it (I am in CT). Your e-mail address will be the contact. How about your telephone number? And the date starting with the need for someone to do the feeding (your surgery)? Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/farmingdale Hi Lorrie - The cats are in the Farmingdale area, NJ. I live in neighboring town, Freehold, NJ. Please, please if there is anyone in this group who live near this area, please contact me. It would be such a wonderful thing. Dotty _ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites?
http://www.medicinenet.com/ascites/article.htm - this should answer some of your questions about ascites. Learn about ascites, accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity. Some common causes of ascites include liver disease or cirrhosis, portal hypertension, cancers. ... We had a cat with cancer, and he had to have ascites drained several times; unfortunately, our vet said that you can't do it only so often.. Don't jump to conclusions that it's FIP!~ Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Forgotten Felines Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 6:01 PM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FeLV Ascites? My FeLV+ kitten developed ascites and I'm worried the vet is going to tell me it's FIP. Does anyone know if ascites is ever related to FeLV? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis
Since I wouldn’t be able to give the two FIV+ cats anything orally, especially so much of it, having huge daily struggles, probably getting kicked and bitten….. I will definitely look into the cold laser solution! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:34 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis Wow. I love holistic approaches, but I'd be afraid my cats would die from stress related illness before the stomatitis was cured. I have to wrap them in a towel to get meds in them. Do you mix it in their food? I have heard great things about the laser procedure. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis
Do you mean after the laser treatment? From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:44 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis If the stomatitis is severe and the cat is having trouble eating, really consider heavy duty pain meds like buprenex during the treatment process. I know that Snowy and I would not have gotten through it all without serious pain management. From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:34 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis Since I wouldn’t be able to give the two FIV+ cats anything orally, especially so much of it, having huge daily struggles, probably getting kicked and bitten….. I will definitely look into the cold laser solution! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:34 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis Wow. I love holistic approaches, but I'd be afraid my cats would die from stress related illness before the stomatitis was cured. I have to wrap them in a towel to get meds in them. Do you mix it in their food? I have heard great things about the laser procedure. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Stomatitis
Kathryn, I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I thought that I saved it, but can't find it. I would very much like to try it on two of our FIV+ cats with stomatitis - one case is severe, one just a little. However, those cats are not easy to handle.would I be able to use it on them? Natalie =^..^= ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
I can try that, too! I would have to mix it into the food for the 5 FIV+ cats! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 2:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis I had great luck with L-lysine Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!Image removed by sender. www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: Susan Hoffman susan_hoff...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis Also not holistic but effective... I have a foster who had stomatitis and regenerative tissue gingivitis. Removing the teeth did not help. Her gums were purple and she could not eat. She had two sessions with a laser, under anesthesia, and weeks of buprenex, prednisone and clindamycin, but she's been off all meds for a couple of months now and it seems that she really is OK now. From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis I will, thank you! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis Natalie, This isn't holistic, but my parent's cat was suffering terribly from stomatitis to the point where they were considering putting him down. Instead, one of the vet tech suggested COLD LASER THERAPY - WORKED INCREDIBLY! Tabby's doing GREAT now - has put his weight back on and is back to his reg. self. Took 5 sessions I think, no sedation, and each visit for treatment they were in and out in under 10 minutes. Check into it! T --- On Thu, 8/23/12, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 23, 2012, 11:52 AM Kathryn, I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I thought that I saved it, but can’t find it. I would very much like to try it on two of our FIV+ cats with stomatitis – one case is severe, one just a little. However, those cats are not easy to handle…would I be able to use it on them? Natalie =^..^= -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Felvtalk mailing list http://us.mc1609.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing listFelvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org attachment: ~WRD000.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
The problem is that some of the FIV+ boys would be hard to medicate..they're still very skittish unless I want to have a big fight every day by restraining them! I'll have to taste it to see if they would eat the food with it.I wonder which tastes better, liquid or powder? From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis You can get it in a syringe so it is pre-measured. There is a powder you can put in the food, but I haven't had good luck getting them to eat it in wet food. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!Image removed by sender. www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis I can try that, too! I would have to mix it into the food for the 5 FIV+ cats! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 2:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis I had great luck with L-lysine Beth _ attachment: ~WRD000.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
Thank you – looking at it, I honestly don’t believe that I would be able to manage giving it all to the 2 very skittish FIV+ cats, maybe one day… But I will file it away to use on cats who would allow me to do this! Natalie =^..^= From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis Holistic Stomatitis Protocol Note that holistic approaches take longer than do allopathic ones. These the supplements we've been using, but it doesn't mean some aren't optional. What seemed to turn things around was one course of antibiotics along with Coptis Purge Fire. You may have to continue with Coptis Purge Fire forever. We've just gotten rid of the stomatitis symptoms and have not tried stopping the supplements. It's better than extractions, which some say only work 50% of the time, and are expensive and invasive to boot. Supplements Health Concerns Coptis Purge Fire (2 tablets if 1 doesn't work) CoQ10 30mg (Dr. Clark) Vitamin A 25000 IU (Metagenics Mycelized Drops) Vitamin E (dry, no soy) 200 IU (may be optional) Lysine 500mg Standard Process Whole Body Support 1/2 to 1 tablet Standard Process Immune Support 1 tablet Tumeric 450mg 1/2 capsule Can also try: Colostrum 100mg / Lactoferrin 10mg (separate from food) Palliative Homeopathy (as opposed to Classical---not really recommended, but here for completeness) Mercurius 30C Meds Antibiotics if really, really bad infections. Can do it once to get things to a level at which the cat can recover with supplements. Use probiotics separately (that is, at least an hour apart) for stomach flora. Cleanings Non-anesthetic sonic cleanings to keep gums clean. In Los Angeles, Kim Haba is an excellent dental tech (see below) who can do such cleanings. Don't feed ground bones if they are getting caught in any gum pockets; use calcium carbonate supplments instead to balance the Ca:Phos ratio (about 1400 mg per pound of ground meat). Topical Oxyfresh in the water. Pus in gums: Myrhh. Make a dilution by adding 1 teaspoon of the tincture (the alcoholic extract) to a cup of water. Gently apply this to the gums once or twice a day. Either use a soft toothbrush or, if the gums are too sensitive for this, flush the gums with this solution using a syringe. Diet Raw diet, per http://catnutrition.org My recipe with local suppliers available on request from khargrea...@gmail.com Developed with the help of Dr. Audra MacCorkle http://holisticanimaldoctor.com and the forum folks on http://holisticat.com Dental cleanings in the Los Angeles area: Four Paws Dental Care Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning for Dogs and Cats Kim Haba 310-699.0036 k...@fourpawsdentalcare.com On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Kathryn, I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I thought that I saved it, but can’t find it. I would very much like to try it on two of our FIV+ cats with stomatitis – one case is severe, one just a little. However, those cats are not easy to handle…would I be able to use it on them? Natalie =^..^= ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Sick FeLV+ Kitten
I had two FeLV+ cats living with quite a few healthy cats for 6 months - some cats were very young, some very old, and one or two with CRF at the time. After finding out - I had the youngest, oldest and sick ones tested immediately - all OK. Now I spot check the remaining ones when they go to the vet. NOBODY got infected! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 3:05 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sick FeLV+ Kitten A false negative is possible but not probable since they were living together before you took them in or at least had contact with each other. FeLv is NOT as contagious as vets would have you think but I do isolate the positives from the negatives anyway. Steroids are only to be used in extreme emergency. They should not be given as a continuous medication. I do give my cat with stomatitis a steroid shot every two to three months if needed, maybe less if the stomatitis looks like it is interfering with his ability to eat. Other than that, I stay away from continuous medications in general. The liver and kidneys can be severely stressed and compromised by having to deal with continuous doses of medications (poisons is what they are even if they are supposed to only poison viruses and bacterium). Controlling disorders by a good natural diet is a terrific way to control or eliminate most problems. The occasional antibiotic shot or steroid should be given when needed of course, but always question the vet as to why it would be needed and would there be an alternative to giving the med. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Forgotten Felines toledoc...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sick FeLV+ Kitten That's a huge relief. Not sure where I'd read the steroids thing, but my heart sunk seeing it, so I couldn't be more pleased to hear that's not the case. I'll definitely re-test Kaya, but I was also wondering, is there any chance the other kittens could've had a false neg? Like perhaps I tested them too soon after exposure? On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Kaya should be treated like a kitten who got sick. Kittens do this regularly and because their immune systems are not as fully developed as a cat's is, they tend to go downhill fast if not given extra food, meds, etc.. Do NOT put this cat on steroids. It will compromise her immune system even more and ruin her kidney function. Most of my FeLv cats were healthy until a week or two before the disease zapped them. Most of the kittens threw off both FeLv and FIV. Several adult cats with FeLv tested negative after 90 days. It's not a death sentence and it's not something you need to treat with meds for the rest of their lives. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FeLV cat - NJ
Hi, everyone: This precious cat is in NJ - would anyone have any ideas/help for Alfie before Saturday? If so, please contact the person directly at riverm...@aol.com ! Thank you very much! Natalie =^..^= Wednesday, August 01, 2012 10:49 AM HI Natalie Alfie and I became Pals. He is a 8 or 9 month old orange and white male. Living in an abandoned house. Finally a foster home opened up for him! He is as innocent as a kitten. A very sweet cat. I love the little guy. He was tested and is positive for leukemia. I am devastated. Do you know anyone that has a leukemia cat that may want to meet Alfie? He needs a good home. The woman holding him will only hold him until Saturday morning. If you know of anyone , please see if they would be interested in giving little Alfie a home. He is healthy and beautiful.P.S. I still have Molly Thank you. riverm...@aol.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] off topic - - removing kitten's eye
I’ve read that natural cure for herpes such as herbs and vitamins, L-lysine, olive leaf extract, red marine algae, lavender, myrrh, sage have proven to be effective and help reduce reoccurrence. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] off topic - - removing kitten's eye Lorrie, Does it work to give your Herpes kitty more Lysine per day? It did with mine. Kathy On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: Briefly I chose to foster 3 kittens with significant conjunctivitis from the local pound about 2 weeks and 2 days ago. That was on a Saturday. I knew come Monday they would be killed. I have spent significant $ of my $ by choice.. I have been doing rescue work for 35 years and I've seen many eyes that were severely infected. Having one eye doesn't seem to affect their ability to get adopted, in fact people often feel they want to help cats with one eye or minus a leg. My neighbor just adopted a totally blind cat. I couldn't get her to take one of mine (I have way too many cats) but she adopted this blind cat from the vet's office! I still have a cat who is blind in one eye and another with chronic herpes infection. His eyes must be wiped out every day to keep them from being goopy. They are permanent cats at our home. There is no cure for the virus as antibiotics have been tried, but will not work on viral infections only bacterial infections. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Positive kittens
How interesting..there's still so very little there is known about FeLV, and you'd think that after all these years, we'd at least have a better way of dealing with it! Lucky Awesome Pawsome - and yes, torties are different from other cats. I just got a 4-week old tortie off death row from a NYC kill shelter (today was to be her due date)..I have found in the last 20 years of rescue that they are harder to tame than others, and are extremely affectionate to only one person. Our 14-yr old tortie Zasu, to this day, loves only me, still afraid of my husband, and we rescued her and her mother when she was only 2 weeks old. Good luck to Awesome Pawsome, she's lucky to have you (and the other way around, I'm sure!) From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:24 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Positive kittens I have one that was born with it who it 3 now. In the past they have never lived past 1 1/2 years when born with it. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!Image removed by sender. www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 12, Issue 9 For the ones who have never seen or heard of this happening, it happens more than some might think! I have a cat, now, Awesome Pawsome, who was one of a litter I socialized from a feral mom.There were 4 kittens--two siamese, a gray, and a tortie, in this litter. Mom was TNR'd from a feral colony, here in San Diego. When tested at about 9 weeks old, all except the gray were positive. 60 days later, only the tortie was positive.So 1/4 of my litter was born negative from a positive Mom. WE did not test the mom, because the neuter scooter was out of those test tubes that day. However,it was discovered, post-mortem, that she was positive. You see, she died, at the colony, several months later. Back to the kittens, 3/4--the negatives--were adopted out to good homes, with the understanding that 2 had previously tested positive, but flipped to negatives. All of those kittens are still negative and alive. One of the four, the tortie, who was the most difficult to tame, persistently tested positive, and the rescue I was then with, was considering putting her up for adoption, for free--on Craigslist! I could not let that happen to her, so I adopted her myself, and this was about 25 months ago. She now is probably the healthiest ,Kitty I have here, of all my fosters and personal cats, except for the fact she is FeLV+ status. I did almost lose her once, to killer calici, and she had such swollen joints and was lame on all fours, alternating 3 legs at a time, for over three months, besides the sores, and all of the other oddities that accompany calici. All my cats got it, even though Pawsome lives in my room, ISO, did not come into contact with any others... and I almost lost her. Other than that, she has only had sniffles and a sneeze, which I immediately start antibiotics at the tiniest indication of. I do realize that she is on her third year of life, and usually kitties don't make it this far, and dread every day she might be sick from something minute. I watch her like a hawk, for fear of losing her. But she has beat the odds so far, and I hope she continues to be healthy and happy and playful, like she is now, for a long time to come. Kat attachment: ~WRD000.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Transmittal via fleas
Hi, Kathy, Welcome - I'm sure that those with more experience with FeLV will respond in more detail. My exposure to FeLV has been limited - only 1 kitten years ago, and 2 adult cats very recently. I'd be surprised if the kittens of a FeLV positive mother would be FeLV negative. I don't know about fleas transmitting FeLV to other cats; it could be like the mistaken idea years ago of HIV being transmitted by mosquitoes. In addition to the flea treatment, get a flea comb, fill a small bowl with water and add a few drops of dishwashing liquid or other soap. When you comb kittens or your cats, dip comb into the water, and with your fingers remove any fur with fleas under the water. Fleas will drown because the soap removes their waxy covering, otherwise they would float on top of the water and jump off. When kittens are too small, I always use this method, and spot-check all the other cats this way. Buy a flea collar, cut off a small piece activate by pulling it, and place it inside your vacuum OR immediately dispose of the vacuum bag or empty the vacuum if it's the bag-less type. Natalie =^..^= From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:06 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Transmittal via fleas I'm new to this group to FeLV. 2 kittens showed up at my house about a 3 weeks ago, I took them inside, bathed good put in separate room away from my 2 other cats. I just found out that the mother cat has FeLV so have been told that the kittens probably do as well. I found a few fleas on one of the kittens last night so immediately bathed both of them again vacuumed the room really good. I've been so careful to keep them away from my other 2 cats now am a bit concerned that a few fleas could transmit if they got on my cats. Any advice that can be offered is appreciate. I researched briefly online saw that it was a possibility so am concerned. I also treated the kittens (a little over 8 weeks) w/a flea spot treatment about an hour after their bath.it was specifically for any kitten or cat 8 weeks older. Was a milder treatment I could tell b/c it doesn't kill flea eggs. K- Kathy Wood Until one has loved an animal a part of one's soul remains unawakened. Anatole France 1844-1924 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIV and oral cancer
Amy, I have had non-FIV cats with all kinds of cancers, mouth, brain, bone, stomach, eye, and ALL before I became aware and began managing an alternative group for cancer. I have almost saved a cat with a very advanced stomach cancer; it didn't save his life, but his quality of life was so much better, lived longer, gained weight, looked wide-eyed and bushy-tailed - no pain, no discopmfort! I have heard previously that there's always danger of cancer with FIV dental problems, and chance of it even in healthy cats after extraction. Would you be interested in joining a group where you could give the cat an alternative? It might be a tonic that you make yourself or apply a salve directly to the tooth area. It's important to send photos of what is happening. If you are willing to try it, please let me know - I manage the group. It is not necessary to know whether it is or isn't cancer, or what type - the salve attacks ONLY cancer cells, and leaves healthy ones alone - the tonic boosts the immune system and treats cancers from within systemically. Natalie =^..^= From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FIV and oral cancer I know this isn't an FIV group but I thought I might be able to find some helpful info. I have two cats that have leukemia and I've been through lymphoma and cancer with several of the positives. This time it is my FIV+ that is having trouble. About a month ago, we noticed a large swelling on the side of her face. We took her to the vet and she had a bad tooth which started bleeding when the doctor touched it. My vet, who I adore and who has never steered me wrong over all the years of my leuk positives, recommended I put her on antibiotics and bring her back to have the tooth removed. We did that and she had 4 extractions. She had bloodwork and testing prior to surgery and everything was beautiful. No signs of anything but a dental abscess. Following the surgery, the swelling on her face was not going away. She has been on very strong antibiotics (trying different kinds and multiple ones together) and yet the mass continues to grow. My vet started by saying she was concerned we might be dealing with cancer. At this point, she is fully convinced there is a tumor growing in there. For all my other cats, I have pursued test after test trying to save them. I've done chemo, I've gone to Cornell University trying to save some of them, but ultimately the cancer always seems to win. So my vet said I could let her be or I could put her under and do dental x-rays and a biopsy. Her socket has not even healed from her dental and my vet said she personally probably wouldn't put her through the biopsy as we are either dealing with infection or cancer and we are both confident this is not infection. Has anybody else ever been through something like this? I don't want to put her through any more sedation, testing, etc. if her days are numbered but I also wonder if I could be missing something. My vet gave me this kitty and she loves her like her own kitty so I'm leaning towards following her advice. I just always thought my FIV+ kitty might live a long, normal life and am so bummed to be possibly dealing with cancer yet again. Would love to hear about anybody else that has been through oral cancer as this is one cancer that I haven't been through before. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Transmittal via fleas
The FeLV kitten that I had didn’t make it past 3 months….it was really sad for Nemo to be isolated from all the cats, especially at such a young age…he started having a serious seizure and it was the end. One of the adult cats was adopted, had a really bad episode after his move from the stress, but is doing really well again. His new “mom” is a veterinarian. The other one died from renal failure – he was a lot older than we thought. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Transmittal via fleas Some kittens born to FeLv+ mothers do turn negative but it's more likely that an adult who contracted the disease from another adult will fight it off and turn negative, like my cats Moses and Percy. Percy is FIV+ though. He's a young street fighter rescued in terrible condition. I'm really happy he fought off the FeLv. I have an FIV+ area for my little colony of positives so no problem. Percy is going to join them this week. He's all shiny and fat now. The bad news about FeLv kittens is that most of them never make it to adulthood. The ones who do will live for about 2 years. Taco and Smooch were rescued as adults already. They were FeLv+. They lived with me for about 2 years. They were buddies, from different street situations but they bonded nicely the last year of their lives. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Transmittal via fleas In the 20 years of cat rescue, with so many FIV+ mother cats, not a single kitten EVER was FIV+! And when and if tested, there was absolutely no sign of it by age 3 months, although some vets say that it could be up to 6 months. They shed the virus quite rapidly as their immune systems develop. I have never heard of kittens born to FeLV mothers ever being negative. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
There are so many DNA lists, which I get almost daily, of people who take puppies and kittens, torture them, kill them, use for dog fightingand if they're not caught in the act, nothing is done and they continueposting free animals on Craigslist is the worst! And look at all those who have gone to court for torturing, killing animals - what do they get? A slap on the wrist, a little fine and/or a suspended sentence.Once in a while, it's slightly more severe. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Off topic - Facebook perversion - cats; STOP them!
THE SICK BASTARDS https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cat-Recipe-Exchange-Page/257267050986409 Everyone's been trying to get this off Facebook - but it seems that they are quite within their parameters to allow this garbage! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
I've been at it for 20 years in August, on a large scale, but have rescued cats all my life, starting with being influenced by my parents who encouraged us to never look the other way. I absolutely agree - some people shouldn't breed! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 6:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see-through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kat Parker Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Hiya Kathryn and everyone. The federal statute you were referring to, Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the one who wrote the Section 1983 to the rescue, on Nathan's site you found, and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good at all, now, but ... whatever. lol) I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and there are a lot of rescuers in here. ~Kat~ -- Forwarded message -- From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters What do you mean by ``rules''? Laws? If they are not in compliance with laws, then turn them in. (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728 As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin). You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!. Who holds the contract with the pound? Don't give up. It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX. Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . . On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: The problem here is that I'm in Texas. Killing is the State Sport. Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats. They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that they are NOT included in the cat limit rule. They recently reduced the number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10. This makes no sense except when you realize that they will now charge for an excess animal permit. Then it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now over the limit and have to purchase the permit. Nasty little tricks. People who have received a citation in the past for having over the permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit. More nonsense. It would help if all the ACO's were required to read the new codes and then be tested on whether or not they understand them. The citizens of this city don't know the rules either. Cat haters are terrorizing cat caring neighbors, threatening them with reporting them when there's nothing to report because the cat caregivers are actually in compliance. I think that ignorance is our worst enemy. Even when we get good ordinances, they don't work because no one knows about them. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Foster mom with FELV kittens follow up
But if the IFA is negative again, there's really no need to do another one to prove or disprove anything - it would only confirm one of two things: It's still not in the bone marrow, or it's in the bone marrow. If two snap or ELISA tests were positive, there's no need to wait for anything other than the IFA becoming positive, showing it's in the bone marrow - and you never know how soon it happens or how long it will be - makes no difference, they're still positive! I had a kitten that didn't make it past a few months, but the adult cats (the ones I mentioned before), did a lot better, one dying of unrelated to FeLV and the other one doing really well. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Foster mom with FELV kittens follow up If the IFA's are positive there is no need for re-testing. It is replicating in their bone marrow. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!Image removed by sender. www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: Jamielynn Storch jlsphotograp...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Foster mom with FELV kittens follow up Yes I understand this however if the IFA comes back positive on all 3 its my understanding they have it..no need to wait 2 months and re-test a positive IFA means its spread to the marrow. So if we get a positive snap and negative IFA we will wait another month and test again until 2 confirmed positives or negatives result. I do know the diagnosis could mean anything...1 year or 6+ ...and sounds like their are even cases of cats being a carrier that dont every get symptomatic btu can still spread the disease. My fiances brother had 2 FELV+ cats (not littermates...adopted a 2nd positive cat as a companion for the 1st) and one died at 1 year old and the other 3 months later. I wish I had a set timeline but I knwo thats not possible and I just dont have the space at my house. This was supposed to be my last foster litter before having my own human children..in which they are currently living in what will be renovated into our baby nursery. I never ever fostered with the intention to adopt. Im devoted to finding these guys a home and really hope its possible...sadly as much as I love them it just isnt my home thats forever for them :(. Lee Evans moonsister22 at yahoo.com mailto:felvtalk%40felineleukemia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BFelvtalk%5D%20Foste r%20Mom%20with%20FELV%20kittens%20follow%20upIn-Reply-To=%3C1340818990.2944 5.YahooMailNeo%40web120701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com%3E Wed Jun 27 12:43:10 CDT 2012 * Previous message: [Felvtalk] Foster Mom with FELV kittens follow up http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/0 02480.html * Next message: [Felvtalk] Foster Mom with FELV kittens follow up http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/0 02482.html * Messages sorted by: [ date ] http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/d ate.html#2481 [ thread ] http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/t hread.html#2481 [ subject ] http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/s ubject.html#2481 [ author ] http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/2012-June/a uthor.html#2481 _ Just had a FIV+/FeLv+ cat retested. He had FIV but he tested negative for FeLv. He's going into my FIV+ section, not because I think that FIV would be contagious to my regular cats but because he never lost his male fighting spirit so let him annoy the FIV's. I do have three FIV+ cats mixed in with my regulars because they never even heard of fighting. Docile, sweet, loving. But Percy, well! Anyway, you need to wait for at least 2 months to retest the kittens. My vet advised me to wait for that period of time. I had another FeLv cat turn from positive to negative. I still have him. Rescued him 6 years ago and he was already an adult from the streets. No health problems. If your kittens are acting normal, seeming health, it's probably because they are and will turn. I have seen true FeLv kittens from the same litter. It has been my experience that they usually don't make it to a year old. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! -- Jamielynn Storch www.jlynnphotographyonline.com http://www.jlynnphotographyonline.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org attachment: ~WRD164.jpg___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Feline medical news - Treatment for FIV/FeLV cats!
It's always great to hear of something else we can try for our FIV/FeLV positive cats! I suppose vets could contact Dr. Globerman to learn more of her results with this drug. Natalie PLEASE SHARE FELINE MEDICAL NEWS - Treatment aid for FIV and FeLV cats!!! THIS is VERY exciting! I have started LTCI therapy ( http://www.tcyte.com/ www.tcyte.com) with my sweet, FIV positive 'Chovi-kitty' who has been suffering numerous symptoms as a result of his inability to fight off illness in the way that normal, FIV negative cats can. His latest 'affliction' is a raw, bleeding, slow-growing sore on his nose and cheeks in addition to inflammation, congestion, and general weakness. He has had 2 injections of LTCI so far and it seems to be taking effect! Dr. Stephanie Globerman, a feline specialist in East Cobb, Georgia ( http://www.pawswhiskersandclaws.com/ www.pawswhiskersandclaws.com/) has enlightened me to this valuable treatment, and she is responsible for administering it to my dear, sick kitty. (A special thank you to Gloria and Barbara for referring me.) Friends, you need to learn about this and spread the word, so other cats like Chovi can be more comfortable and healthier. Please keep in mind that not all FIV+ cats have issues like mine. Many FIV+ cats have no issues at all and live a very long, healthy life. This treatment is for cats like mine who has more serious and chronic issues resulting from his immune deficiency. Roxane Caspary - 404.786.4093 cell Marketing, PR, Graphics Photography ANIMAL SAVERS RESCUE Adopt a pet today, save a life tomorrow. Please visit www.animalsaversrescue.org Search, shop, and help ANIMAL SAVERS RESCUE. Go to www.igive.com/animalsaversrescue Please Spay and Neuter Your Pets Death Should Not be a Method of Birth Control tcyte.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] rENaVAST (FROM tANYA'AS crf SITE)
But don't we all take supplements that are not drugs, and are not approved by FDA (which really doesn't mean much - my husband worked for Pfizer his whole life, I now the inside dope.). My vet has had some very good results with it. Since the 90s, the FDA has made it worse for any vitamin companies to even mention what certain vitamins are good for (as they used to). Now, when we buy vitamins, we have to learn ourselves what which is good for. Just recently, Senator Durbin was attempting to screw around with vitamins .didn't succeed! This is not going to deter me from using RenAvast - it certainly won't hurt the cat(s). If it helps - great, if it doesn't, nothing lost. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kat Parker Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 1:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] rENaVAST (FROM tANYA'AS crf SITE) RenAvast (FROM tANYA'S SITE) _ http://renavast.com RenAvast was launched in the USA in summer 2011 and contains something called Avastamine (AB070597). Avastamine is said to consist of naturally occurring biomolecules, which apparently means it is a proprietary mix of seven specific amino acids or peptides, though they do not state which ones. Amino acids are the components of protein. Peptides are the molecules formed when two or more amino acids are joined together. There are 23 amino acids which cats need, and they can manufacture twelve of these themselves, but the other eleven must be obtained from food. http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm#taurine Taurine is one example of an amino acid which cats must obtain from food. http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/vth/sa/clin/cp_handouts/Nutrition_Adult_Cat.pdf Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine explains more about cats and amino acids. RenAvast is marketed as a dietary supplement. Dietary supplements do not need US Food and Drug Administration approval but the manufacturers make the bold claims that RenAvast can halt the progression of chronic renal failure in cats and that unlike other products and drugs, RenAvast does not treat the symptoms of renal failure, it treats the cause. The http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/ConsumerInformation/ucm110417.ht m#regulate FDA states that a product sold as a dietary supplement and promoted on its label or in labeling as a treatment, prevention or cure for a specific disease or condition would be considered an unapproved - and thus illegal - drug. RenAvast is being widely promoted online. The marketing literature for RenAvast focuses heavily on a study published online by the manufacturers (rather than in a veterinary journal), http://adminpilot.s3.amazonaws.com/renavast/files/2011/07/renavast-pdf.pdf AB070597 and its effect on declining renal function in felines (2007) Archer J, published online. This reports on 19 cats who were given RenAvast over a two year period. Cats joined and left the study during this period so it is not known over how long a period the results for individual cats were measured. No cats in the trial were on sub-Q fluids or a prescription diet, but it is not known if they were receiving other treatments such as phosphorus binders or Azodyl. Many of the cats were in early stage CKD (Stage 2 of IRIS), and it is not uncommon for cats in this stage to survive for years. An unrelated study, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9918157 Plasma amino acid profiles in cats with naturally acquired chronic renal failure (1999) Goldstein RE, Marks SL, Cowgill LD, Kass PH Rogers QR American Journal of Veterinary Research 60(1) pp109-13, found that CKD cats in all stages of the disease had lower levels of amino acids than healthy cats. However, they concluded the magnitude of these changes is mild and of little clinical relevance. This is an older study, and it might eventually be shown that supplementary amino acids are in fact helpful to CKD cats, but currently there is no evidence that RenAvast is the miracle cure it claims to be. What do I think of RenAvast? My hunch is that RenAvast contains widely available and inexpensive unpatented amino acids packaged together and subjected to some clever marketing. If it only contains amino acids and peptides, it is probably not going to do any harm, but without knowing exactly what it contains, I cannot say for sure. It might be a good product, it might not, but it is unlikely to be as effective as its manufacturers claim, and it is certainly not cheap at over US$30 a month. Based on the information currently available, I would save my money and put it towards more proven treatments than RenAvast. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] RenAvast for cats
Hi, everyone; I thought this might be of interest to you. One of our older cats (17) - blood tests revealed slight renal problem, for which my vet recommended a new product RenAvast; there's a lot more info on it if you search. http://www.renavast.com/ I contacted them and since I am a 501 (c) (3) group, they kindly they offered wholesale prices (as to a vet). Apparently, you can start using it on cats who don't have a problem yet. I also started using NutraMin as a supplement for all the cats. Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Cat shelters
I hope they don't use the heart stick method on cats.brutal! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:55 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat shelters Around 12 years ago, that was the method San Antonio's Animal Control facility used to kill cats and dogs. They hooked a pick-up truck to an opening in the wall of a small room. They filled the room with unwanted cats and dogs - all together, not even separating them by species, and turned on the truck's engine. They then shoveled the animals out onto another pick-up and off to the landfill they went. Some were only half dead. When this horror was exposed to the public, 200 people showed up in a protest rally and kept showing up until a regular gas chamber was installed. Then we had to do it all over to get the death by lethal injection method approved. San Antonio is finally realizing that death is not the answer at all but they are still using the injection to kill. More advanced thinking people are now trying to get the pound to go no-kill. Unfortunately, most of the officers there are left over from the ugly past and catch and kill still prevails. But at least the City has recognized TNR as a legitimate way to deal with Community Cats (formerly known as ferals). Maybe someday. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Check out An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO]
And think what is done to them - coon hunting, treeing them with dogs, trappingI have a great picture - might be too large to send here.. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 12:18 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Check out An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] Guess that is why I could never shoot one of them. Can't get past those eyes. Same with any animal, they look at you with those adorable eyes and I guess I will just eat berries and vegies. Have to be awfully hungry to kill one, then I couldn't eat it so why bother killing it. Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: OMG, is the the cutest video EVER :) LOVE when he is eating popcorn on the couch :) Our house backs up to a forest reserve so we have many many raccoons that we feed in the backyard :) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 15:53:36 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Check out An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] Everyone, speaking of raccoons……adorable video! Check out an orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Screen - Raccoons
Yes, there is, and we are finally getting some because our cats climb screens http://www.goodsearch.com/search.aspx?keywords=Pet+screening -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Screen - Raccoons I think what you mention here is called Pet Screen. It is an extremely strong poly vinyl screen that is virtually tear proof. I screened in our porch with this and it's been up for years with 15 cats at home and raccoons outside. I got it online, but later found out Lowes has it in stock. Lorrie On 05-31, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: I got some information on a screen that the manufacturer says is cat, dog and raccoon proof. Also no seeums proof. It cost $108.00 per roll (which is a large roll). I will try to dig out the info and send it to you. I was planning on fencing in my deck for days when I have to leave early and get back late. At least they would be able to get outside. Harley especially is a real pain when he can't go outside, knocking things down, over and driving the others crazy (this will make me give in and let him out). I don't want to leave them outside when I am gone because they might get hurt and I would not get back in time to take them to the vet. I know, crazy, but I don't want to loose any of them because of stupidity. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply/reply
Had to resend - didn't erase anything.was too large. From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 8:32 AM To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply/reply Raccoons always dip their food in water.and their little adorable feet may not always be so clean..dirty water, YES! Thankfully, I don't have to put out water for them because the wildlife feeder with all the cat food leftovers is right next to a stream coming from the waterfall. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 3:06 AM To: dlg...@windstream.net; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply/reply Yeah, right - they definitely must be taking a bath! How can they get the water so dirty? Even just one raccoon makes a mess of the water. They are cute though. I was tossing little bits of a banana to one once and after the banana was gone he slowly walked up to me then bent over and sniffed my shoe and then walked away. I was scared he might bite me but I was too curious about what he was going to do to move. But, they can be a problem too when they're tearing things up and eating the cat's food and you feed 50 ferals a day and don't have money to feed them too. Just read that the babies leave the home range after a certain age. So that's why they disappear. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 23:57:27 -0500 From: dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply/reply CC: molvey...@hotmail.com I was going to say that the coons will just carry off the feeder and break it open at their convenience. I loose a lot of suet feeders that way. My outside water bowls are always dirty in the AM. One has to wash their food before eating it. I think they also take a bath before eating. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Check out An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO]
Everyone, speaking of raccoons..adorable video! Check out an orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] An orphan baby raccoon. [VIDEO] http://www.wimp.com/orphanraccoon/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/placing the stray cats
In what area are you living? Are they spayed/neutered? Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 8:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/placing the stray cats Speaking of all this about the raccoon, anyways, wish I could find homes for the 7 cats i feed every day. They are all so beautiful and quite healthy looking with all the meat i feed them and the dry food. At least 3 of them are very friendly and the others are coming around, too. Anyone have any input about how to place these cats? I hate to bring them to a shelter even if it's no kill. They will just sit in a cage until they get adopted for god knows how long. It's very hard feeding every day. It's just me and my husband. We can never go away anywhere now because of it. What are your experiences? Dotty _ From: dot winkler venus7ora...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION Hi - well, I don't think I can bring the dry food in at night. Because i would have to make two trips to the cat area, instead of one. One trip is to bring the meat to them. If I did that in the evening then I could bring in the dry food but then i would have to come the next morning to put the dry food back and then another time that day to bring it in again. I live the next town over and work schedule is rough so once a day is pushing it as it is! Thanks for all your suggestions. What did you mean about the RAMP? I was not sure I understood. Just thought of something - wouldn't it be cool if I could devise a door that would shut automatically each night so nothing could get in the dry food station and then open in the morning! L.O.L. dotty _ From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION I feed the birds, so I also feed raccoons since they clean up what the birds don't get or drop. I also get possums coming for the seed. They both come to the feeders especially during a dry spell because I also put out water for the birds. They come all during the day, especially the young ones who have just been weaned. When they find an easy source of food, they will keep coming back. Maybe try moving the food to a different location, confuse them? Coons are smart, scheming little kids. I had one that sekt stealing the bait out of a trap, so I watched all night and caught her. She entered the trap, sucked in her stomachso she would not trip the door and reached across the trip plate, took the food and backed out. Next night, I wired the bait to the floor of the trap and in the struggle to get it, she sprung the trap. Big Momma, another (35lbs) kept getting in my seed can. She would open it and let the babies in to eat. Tried using straps from pick up. She chewed thru them. Brought it inside and she tried to turn the door handle so she could get in to it. Maybe you cold make a ramp - no, coons would jucst use it too. I will ask Perk (an old timer round here who used to hunt them) maybe he can come up with something. Have you thought of bringing the dry food in at night and once the cats got used to the feeding schedule, they would not come for food at night. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Yes, raccoons are mostly nocturnal, but when they have young ones, they can also be seen during the day, looking for more food. This makes many people call ACOs when they see raccoons during the day, wrongly assuming that there's something wrong with them, like rabies, distemper. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:17 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION They are and they are a royal pain. On May 29, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Beth wrote: I have the same problem with opossums. I have started feeding the ferals in a different place putting dry food out for the Opossums. Also I feed the ferals during the day the Opossums eat at night. I'm not sure if raccoons are nocturnal like opossums Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ _ From: dot winkler venus7ora...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION Hi there - anyone out there - does anyone know how to construct or how to keep raccoon out of an outdoor cat colony dry feeder? I am feeding 7 outdoor cats and now there is a raccoon in the area eating all the dry
Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION
Dotty, If you would allow me to, I can put out an alert asking for an answer to this dilemma, listing you as the contact– there are quite a few NJ people on the list. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:00 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION Hi there - anyone out there - does anyone know how to construct or how to keep raccoon out of an outdoor cat colony dry feeder? I am feeding 7 outdoor cats and now there is a raccoon in the area eating all the dry food every night in the dry food feeding station. I feed the cats by day some meat and throw away the plates when done. But the dry food is a staple food for them which they need to supplement the one feeding I give. Also, in case I can't get there to feed them. Any suggestions? I have seen some constructions on line but the cats have to jump up to get into them and there is one older cat I don't think he can jump up into anything! Please let me know. I know this has nothing to do with leukemia, but it does have to do with helping cats. Dotty - Freehold, NJ _ From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] What could it be? Had to send this again because it bounced back the first time. I hate it when it does that. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain _ From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] What could it be? Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:40:59 -0400 Ha, ha - I love it!!! You sound as pissed off as I was. Believe me he is on my shitlist too. I was boiling about it for days. Matter of fact I was just telling my co-worker about him this morning and I got pissed off again thinking about it. I guess he just wanted me to take her home and watch her die. I don't know. He never did go as far as to say that exactly because I said I wanted him to give her fluids and do a blood test and then e-mail this other vet so I could get this experimental drug for dry form of FIP. I didn't give him a chance to send me away with nothing. Course, at the time other than the fever she was doing okay. Although she was wobbly on her back legs she was still eating and everything although she had lost some weight. So she wasn't in any pain. But I think with a temperature of 104 he would have wanted to do something about that anyway. The thing is that like toxoplasmosis shows the same symptoms as the dry form of FIP and if it was that it could be treated with some antibiotics that aren't even that expensive. He's such a dumbass. I didn't know that the symptoms were the same until a couple days later and when I asked him about it he said he had thought about it when he was looking at her. So if he thought about it and didn't suggest a test for it then he didn't care. He figured with FeLV she's going to die sooner or later so why spend money doing any kind of tests or treatments on her. I'm surprised he didn't suggest killing her. BTW - it's not euthanization unless it's to end suffering so at that point it would have been just killing her. I like your answer about doing what you do for the animals. I'm going to steal it. Most everybody just thanks me for helping the animals (I feed ferals so I run into different people that see me doing it plus going to adoptions, etc.) but every now and then I get someone who asks why I do it, as though it's a bad thing or beneath me or something. I'll use your answer for those folks. It's probably better than what I normally say to them, if you know what I mean! Maureen “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain _ From: marciabmar...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:14:58 -0500 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] What could it be? What the hell is wrong with this vet, that he didn't even want to help a little helpless suffering animal feel better? And he has the knowledge and power to do just that!! I'm baffled. Not tooting my own horn by any means, but when people ask me why I do what I do for animals, the only answer I have for them is because I can, and that obligates me. I make no money of course, but I spend plenty. I guess it all boils down to caring enough. That vet would and is on my
