[fibernet] S or Z Ply

[brookfarmalpacas]

I have a delimma!

A very well known and respected National (maybe International) spinner and 
teacher saw some of my mini-mill spun alpaca yarn and told me it was Spun up 
wrong. The yarn was spun with an S Twist and Plyed Z Twist. Right in front of 
my customer who was showing off her beautiful Pie Shawl out of my alpaca yarn, 
she said that the knitting did not look as nice as it could have because it was 
processed wrong. 

She did not explain how the Z or S final twist in a yarn changes the look or a 
fabric or the why; she just said it was wrong; that the mill should be informed 
and owes me a huge refund or credit on my processing.

After much online research and research in my Spinning books, I see that 
industry standard is a S Ply in the final product on plyed yarns, but again no 
explanation why this is or how it makes the knit product different or not as 
nice.

The mini-mill in question tells me that the Mini Mills company sets up their 
equipment this way and told her that is how it is to be run on a mini mill. She 
has since gone onto her Mini Mill message board and has confirmed that many 
Mini Mills continue to do so for this same reason.

So my question is that other than the Knitty.com article of 2005, does anyone 
have other data as to why commercial yarns are plyed S twist and that this is 
the industry standard? Does a fabric look different or inferior if knit with a 
yarn Plyed Z twist?

Should I be looking for a refund or credit on my orders processed with a Z 
Twist Ply? Why would Mini Mills

Thanks so much!

Debbie Emery
Brookfarm Alpacas
www.brookfarmalpaca.com
Glen Ellen, CA

Re: [fibernet] S or Z Ply

[Sara von Tresckow]

My newer books refer to Z spun S plied yarns as being normal which is an 
indication of frequency, not correctness.
Mable Ross in her Encyclopedia of Handspinning, under Z-Twist on p. 214 
states Commercial woollen-spun yarn, traditionally S-spun, is still 
sometimes so spun.
I also checked my references to mill spinning and there is nothing about a 
MUST on spinning and plying other than that to avoid odd twist, plying is 
done in the opposite direction of the single yarns.
There is also ample literature about using one twist direction for warp and 
the other for weft as it affects the way the intersections in a piece of 
woven cloth interact and changes the appearance of the fabric.
I've never heard this theory.
Actually  you may have something unusual - there is a type of knitting that 
due to twisting the threads NEEDS Z-plied yarn.
Called Tvåändsstickning (Swedish twined or two ended knitting) it is a 
knitting technique that demands the Z-ply because S-plied would untwist 
using this technique - had a lady here in town looking for some and I had to 
send her to Walstedt's Swedish wool factory as it is the only commercial 
source.
You just might have something special there.
As far as I can tell from 50+ years  of knitting and 30+ of spinning, I've 
never heard that  the initial spinning direction made any significant 
difference in the finished stocking stitch knit fabric.
I'd certainly discount that person in your shop in terms of respect and 
consideration of her teaching. There are other sources.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sa...@powercom.net

http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, vendors at Wisconsin Spin In