Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
On Mon, 02 May 2011 12:04:31 -0400, Benjamin Reed wrote: On 5/2/11 12:00 PM, Jack Howarth wrote: Benjamin, I think you misunderstood my request. I am not asking that... UseMaxBuildJobs: true be default on. Rather I am asking that fink extends its current behavior for new installations of defaulting to adding an entry for UseMaxBuildJobs=N 'fink configure', which runs during bootstrap, prompts for this option with a suggestion to use the number of cores on the machine, so a user doing a clean install would have a chance to set it. I just patched fink (HEAD and the next future 0.30.x release) to also do this when the fink package is updated. Turns out we have a generic flag for fink.conf has a new feature that triggers fink to run 'fink configure' during the update. dan -- Daniel Macks dma...@netspace.org -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
Daniel, It seems like a chicken and the egg problem here with UseMaxBuildJobs. If the feature is considered entirely optional, it is difficult to rationalize using it in larger packages that beg to be built with parallel make whenever possible. Also, one can argue that there is inconsistent behavior currently in fink. If one does a clean installation from fink cvs, the UseMaxBuildJobs is automatically created in fink.conf for the user. I am only saying that this behavior should be extended to existing installations of fink when fink itself is upgraded as well. It is difficult to see how one can say it is okay to silently create UseMaxBuildJobs for a fresh install of fink without warning the user but that this is inappropriate for existing installations of fink. They should be treated identically regarding the autocreation of UseMaxBuildJobs in fink.conf. Jack ps Ny view is that if the user objects to UseMaxBuildJobs, they could set it to 1 and, since UseMaxBuildJobs now exists, fink will never mess with UseMaxBuildJobs in fink.conf again. I am only worried about the fact that few if any users will expend the effort to discover this new option and manually create it themselves. -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
On Mon, 2 May 2011 08:59:56 -0400, Jack Howarth wrote: Daniel, It seems like a chicken and the egg problem here with UseMaxBuildJobs. If the feature is considered entirely optional, it is difficult to rationalize using it in larger packages that beg to be built with parallel make whenever possible. Also, one can argue that there is inconsistent behavior currently in fink. If one does a clean installation from fink cvs, the UseMaxBuildJobs is automatically created in fink.conf for the user. I am only saying that this behavior should be extended to existing installations of fink when fink itself is upgraded as well. It is difficult to see how one can say it is okay to silently create UseMaxBuildJobs for a fresh install of fink without warning the user but that this is inappropriate for existing installations of fink. They should be treated identically regarding the autocreation of UseMaxBuildJobs in fink.conf. Jack ps Ny view is that if the user objects to UseMaxBuildJobs, they could set it to 1 and, since UseMaxBuildJobs now exists, fink will never mess with UseMaxBuildJobs in fink.conf again. I am only worried about the fact that few if any users will expend the effort to discover this new option and manually create it themselves. I was *only* addressing your proposal that if use maxbuildjobs in foo.info, require BDep on fink that supports it. The same results every time mantra of fink applies to the compiled binary package. If it takes the user 100x as long to get there, that doesn't matter (whether a package really wants to go parallel is only a preference for trying to help the user save himself time...*getting to the same product*). I agree that a fink upgrade to a version that supports a new preference (especially one that requires opt-in and can be beneficial if selected) should offer to set the new preference. For example, when fink-mirrors is upgraded, the user is prompted to change mirror prefs and the prompt even notes whether previously-chosen mirrors are no longer appropriate. Behavior question: if a user chooses not to do parallel, is the pref written to fink.conf? That is, by inspecting fink.conf, can fink distinguish never been prompted to choose parallel vs chose not to parallel? dan -- Daniel Macks dma...@netspace.org -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 11:43:08AM -0400, Benjamin Reed wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 5/2/11 10:09 AM, Jack Howarth wrote: make it an opt out The problem with making it an opt out is that there are plenty of packages that do not support parallel build, and the first rule is Don't Break Existing (Working) Stuff. Enabling it by default that means that a bunch of maintainers who haven't heard anything about working packages for years will suddenly get reports of random failing. Not really a good thing IMHO, especially since parallel-make issues are generally non-obvious and difficult to debug. Benjamin, I think you misunderstood my request. I am not asking that... UseMaxBuildJobs: true be default on. Rather I am asking that fink extends its current behavior for new installations of defaulting to adding an entry for UseMaxBuildJobs=N in fink.conf when not present in existing installations. This in no way would cause all packages to use UseMaxBuildJobs but rather only insure that those that do currently use UseMaxBuildJobs are given access to the appropriate number of jobs. Currently, the vast majority of users with existing installations are unlikey to have UseMaxBuildJobs in fink.conf and we shouldn't make them dive into the documentation for that feature to work on packages that currently are coded to use it. Jack ps As I mentioned earlier, if a user doesn't want UseMaxBuildJobs to be used in packages at all, they are free to set UseMaxBuildJob=1 in fink.conf and fink should respect that and never attempt to change it. - -- Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick a.k.a. Raccoon Fink Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development Blog: http://www.raccoonfink.com/ Music: http://music.raccoonfink.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFNvtELUu+jZtP2Zf4RArwmAJ0elNvd6BpvhtIt1Uy4Yu3YFy2JjACePilO xAognpWjFubkEdYjlokKZRA= =bTjz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 5/2/11 12:00 PM, Jack Howarth wrote: Benjamin, I think you misunderstood my request. I am not asking that... UseMaxBuildJobs: true be default on. Rather I am asking that fink extends its current behavior for new installations of defaulting to adding an entry for UseMaxBuildJobs=N Yeah, we talked about this in IRC a bit. I did misunderstand; your proposal seems reasonable, since it shouldn't affect anything that wasn't already explicitly OK'd by the maintainer with UseMaxBuildJobs. +1 - -- Benjamin Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick a.k.a. Raccoon Fink Fink, KDE, and Mac OS X development Blog: http://www.raccoonfink.com/ Music: http://music.raccoonfink.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFNvtYPUu+jZtP2Zf4RAhCHAKCIDvPxOwDU6+fIom58kyok+kJJ7wCdEyjO A9wmE7kGXyP16fLeUl7swQI= =saa1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] UseMaxBuildJobs
On Sun, 1 May 2011 20:50:00 -0400, Jack Howarth wrote: I am open to switching the gcc4x packages to build using UseMaxBuildJobs but I have one major complaint about how fink currently handles this option. It is really unrealistic to expect the users to create this entry in fink.conf on existing installations. It would be nice if the next minor fink update could be changed to automatically create UseMaxBuildJobs if it doesn't currently exist in fink.conf. This would limit the annoyance of users as packages are transitioned to UseMaxBuildJobs. Jack ps Unless I missed it somehow, fink validate doesn't seem to demand a particular fink version for this flag. Should this require a BuildDepends on a particular fink release? It does not affect the results...package *must* build the same regardless of how many cores user allocates to fink. So there's no *requirement* that parallel be done at all, so there's no need to require a fink that supports that optional feature. The time we need a BDep on a recent fink is if only a recent fink can handle a .info entry at all *and fails without it* or else builds differently/incorrectly. dan -- Daniel Macks dma...@netspace.org -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Fink-devel mailing list Fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net List archive: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.devel Subscription management: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
