Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Ahhh Grasshopper. The KB is all knowing. It should have all that your heart desires. http://kb.flex-radio.com/article.aspx?id=10343 -Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter G. Viscarola Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:42 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Ok Peter here we go again.but first let me add, I always tell folks trying to match their 20/20 voice in 0 to 3.2K bandwidth ...make a 20/20 recording of your self with the microphone your going to use ...then when you get close ask your wife to pick out which is which.if she gives up...You Win...!! It can be doneI always pass the 16-17-18-19-sugar test and the Please Orange Test!!! Here we go. Well, one of the approaches to kill the muddiness, is a technique that has been employed in recording/broadcasting over the years.. 1.- There is a magic spot in everybody's voice that will increase clarity and pull down the lo-mid darkness (Muddiness) ... its different in everybody's voice but can be found around 160 Hz .. use a narrow Q and an amplitude reduction of 6-8-10 dB. Throttle around 160 till you find your own personal spot.(mine is at 148) 2.- To increase the clarity, add 6-8-109 dB at 3730 Hz, now its not the 3720 we are concerned with ... its the magic 2d harmonic at 1865, with a long Q. (You want clarity..here it is..!!) 3.- Now put a low end cut of 10 dB beginning at 65 Hz going down and a 6-8-12 dB high end cut at 3200 Hz going up. 4.- As a option for polish and fullness add 3-6 dB at 80 Hz with a sharp Q... and throttle for the sweet spot You would be surprised a the number of studio voices this trick of 160 and a 3720 harmonic saved from the cutting floor A number of years ago the Australian commercial SSB folks were on to the work being done stateside with the Audio Folks on 14.198 then 14.178 ..information was exchanged and they went over to the Aphex Air Chain, and a bunch of goodies from Bob Orban.and were tickled at the results... -Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kc4pe.com/amateurshack.htm - Original Message - From: Peter G. Viscarola [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
For additional information Visit Nu9N's site for an in depth discussion of audio as it pertains to ham adio http://www.nu9n.com/home.html John P. Basilotto W5GI Chief Operating Officer Marketing and Sales Office 512 535-5266 FAX512 233-5143 www.flex-radio.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter G. Viscarola Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:42 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Seems like a parametric EQ would be the best candidate for the job. It doesn't seem like the current EQ would be able to handle this in it's current incarnation. Perhaps a feature request is in order. It probably should be enabled in expert mode. Edwin MarzanAB2VW 1.- There is a magic spot in everybody's voice that will increase clarity and pull down the lo-mid darkness (Muddiness) ... its different in everybody's voice but can be found around 160 Hz .. use a narrow Q and an amplitude reduction of 6-8-10 dB. Throttle around 160 till you find your own personal spot.(mine is at 148) _ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Peter, Tim and All, My settings for Elecraft K3 TX equalizer are following for high noise/DX pileup conditions: 50 Hz -16 dB 100 Hz -16 dB 200 Hz -12 dB 400 Hz ±0 dB 800 Hz + 9 dB 1200 Hz +16 dB 2400 Hz +16 dB 3200 Hz -16 dB After that there is 2,7 kHz roofing filter. The compression setting is put to the maximum 30. I have used similar kind of settings also for SDR-1000. I'm using a dynamic microphone with a practically flat frequency response. Remember however, that the optimal settings depend on the personal voice. Remember also that these settings are not for HiFi, but only for efficient punch with limited TX power and bandwidth through high noise and QRM. Since 1970's Im using same kind of equalizer settings together with the old fashioned RF-clipper during the years in all of my heavily modified analog rice box radios and I'm usually getting easily through the pileups with only 100 W output power. Now the DSP can do the same thing much better and in a more elegant way. Please, read the KB articles Tim is referring to: http://support.flex-radio.com/Downloads.aspx?fn=speech-processing.pdf http://support.flex-radio.com/Downloads.aspx?fn=filter-clipped-speech.pdf (Thanks Tim for putting those articles to the KB!) 73, Ahti OH2RZ 2008/6/5 Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ahhh Grasshopper. The KB is all knowing. It should have all that your heart desires. http://kb.flex-radio.com/article.aspx?id=10343 -Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter G. Viscarola Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:42 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Here's another tip to understanding what happens to audio when filter settings are change. Select a strong broadcast station and configure your filter settings to high and low -. Listen to the audio with either a set of studio headphones or Hi-Fi speakers. Now configure the receiver filter to the same as your transmitter filter, e.g. if your transmit filter is set to low 200 high 2800 then set your receiver filters to 200 and 2800. Note the change in fidelity. This is the same thing that happens when you feed wide response audio into the microphone then to a relatively narrow filter. Now play with the (Receive) 3-band EQ, then the 10 band EQ. This will give you some idea of equalization will affect your transmit audio. I think you'll be enlightened. John P. Basilotto W5GI Chief Operating Officer Marketing and Sales Office 512 535-5266 FAX512 233-5143 www.flex-radio.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Basilotto Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:03 PM To: 'Peter G. Viscarola'; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth For additional information Visit Nu9N's site for an in depth discussion of audio as it pertains to ham adio http://www.nu9n.com/home.html John P. Basilotto W5GI Chief Operating Officer Marketing and Sales Office 512 535-5266 FAX512 233-5143 www.flex-radio.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter G. Viscarola Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:42 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth I've been following the discussion of SSB intelligibility with much interest. While I don't think I'm game for reading the journal articles, I *would* appreciate some practical EQ advice... I think I heard somebody say cut at 150 and also bump at 2300 (was it)?? I'm not asking for a prescription, obviously, but I know it'd help ME to get some starting values, de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
Thanks to ALL for the immediate replies and very down-to-earth useful ideas. I really do appreciate it. Now play with the (Receive) 3-band EQ, then the 10 band EQ. This will give you some idea of equalization will affect your transmit audio. I think you'll be enlightened. THAT is simple and an EXCELLENT sounding idea, thanks. de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] articulation and bandwidth
At 12:15 PM 6/5/2008, Brian C wrote: Dale is absolutely correct. In a bandwidth of approximately 80 Hz to 8 KHz, with a microphone having a flat response, and using headphones with a flat response, the human voice sounds completely natural. In a bandwidth of 3 KHz, or less, up to 25% of vocalizations present in wider bandwidths are missing. By using equalization, or microphone pre-emphasis, muddiness is reduced or eliminated, and articulation and intelligibility are improved. All of the current research in audiology, voip, and psycho-physio-acoustics attempts to analyze the relationship between bandwidth and articulation. The current focus is on finding some happy medium between the two for things like hearing aids, annunciator sytems, air-to-ground comms, voip, etc. There are literally hundreds of modern, scientifically designed, peer reviewed studies focusing on this relationship. For our purposes, 3KHz SSB, amateur communications, a Heil mic with pre-emphasis built in, and/or the EQ in PowerSDR will cure muddiness and the inarticulate audio blues. Please email me off list if you'd like to read some journal articles about the foregoing. There's also the whole thing of effective low bitrate digital voice codecs. Relatively few systems actually just digitize the analog waveform and send it, a la the classic mu or A law phone codec, or 16 kbps CVSD. So there's a lot of work on how to encode all the bandwidth (as noted above and in previous posts, more bandwidth tends to improve understandibility, etc.), while still using a low overall bit rate. For instance, GSM cell phones use only 8kbps (with FEC it's 13 kbps), but, as everyone has probably noticed, there are some pretty obnoxious artifacts. OTOH, there are other 8 kbps codecs available that sound MUCH better. Even ones at lower rates (4.8, 2.4, etc.). You can send sort of understandable speech of pretty crummy overall quality in as little as 500 bps. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
