Re: [Flightgear-devel] Custom scenery data startup location problem.
On 27 Oct 2009, at 23:58, Martin Spott wrote: Thanks for pointing out ! I'm going to investigate and comment as soon as my (spare) time permits, Just to add, Anders and I discussed my loading code on IRC, and it's definitely possible I am mis-interpreting some of the values in threshold.xml - especially relating to the displaced threshold value. That said, I checked over the code and I do believe it's correct (given my understanding of the XML data) James -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 12:33 +1300, James Sleeman wrote: I'm using OpenAL-Soft 1.9.563 compiled from source from http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html and ALUT 1.1 compiled from source from http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/ALUT/freealut-1.1.0.tar.gz These both seem to be the latest. I've also tried using the (older) RPM's that come with my distro, same result... I couldn't checkout anything for ALUT from the SVN URL above... S. On 28/10/09 08:22, jorg van der venne wrote: Al packages were checked-out Sunday 25th. I am sure it was svn://connect.creativelabs.com/OpenAL/trunk/OpenAL-Soft svn://connect.creativelabs.com/OpenAL/trunk/Alut that fixed my problem I think distributions will be using a much older OpenAL-Soft. My up-to-date Ubuntu 9.04 has OpenAL-Soft 1.4.272 by the looks of it, current version of OpenAL-Soft is 1.9.563 according to http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html I wonder if this is the cause of the differing problems people are seeing. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c
Hi there, I have a day old version of fg/sg from cvs, and osg 2.9.5. The usual flaps inc/dec keys ([/]) do not respond to input. I've read in the archives about this problem, but it seems its still hanging around. Also, my 777-300ER project (adaptation of Syd/Justins 777-200) has an issue - I had to remove an empty reference tag from the autopilot xml (as per thread in the forum discussing same issue) so fg will start, but my 777-300ER appears to need a serious clean - even at noon the jet appears black on the shady side and sooty grey on the sunny side! The terrain looks fine, as do some static building models I've placed in the scene, and other a/c I haven't worked on look normal. Just my one looks dirty! Any advice on the flaps/dark texture issues? Kind regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/-- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
Hi, I think that's mainly due to the great work that Vadym has done on the textures. Yep, but it was you who improved the code, I haven't get so nice pics with the older code... I have been doing a similar investigation. In fact, I think the textures Vadym produced are much closer to stratus clouds than cumulus. So, if anyone wants to generate new cumulus textures, they are very welcome to do so... Maybe Vadym can make this also from the same source- would be great! I think these are ordering issues, but I don't know how to fix them. With the new clouds textures the issues isn't very visible. In the moment I can live with it as you can see on the pics below. And of course that they don't move with the wind! ;-) That is something that is on my to-do list. Can't wait! :-) Thanks. I'll hopefully have the chance to have a look at this later today. -Stuart Some pics which shows that with this clouds we are really close to or even took over the Qualitity of MSFS and X-Plane: just some contrast fixing and white balance and the black stripes added. I sent to a swiss flight simulation forum, I wait for answers http://www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-062.png http://www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-049.2.png http://www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-067.png Thanks again for this great work! Heiko -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c
On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 03:32 -0700, Chris Wilkinson wrote: Hi ya Chris, Gijs gives a good overview of what you need to do on the forums; http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4t=5759st=0sk=tsd=astart=30#p46112 basically changes in the shaders for a little while ago, need the material in the .ac model to be updated. Hope that helps S. but my 777-300ER appears to need a serious clean - even at noon the jet appears black on the shady side and sooty grey on the sunny side! The terrain looks fine, as do some static building models I've placed in the scene, and other a/c I haven't worked on look normal. Just my one looks dirty! Any advice on the flaps/dark texture issues? Kind regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
2009/10/28 Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de: Maybe Vadym can make this also from the same source- would be great! Now I'm always with my camera in the pocket, and I mad in hunting for clouds :) It takes long time to take 20-30 good photo of certain type cloud, but I try. http://www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-049.2.png 16 different textures, but two identical textures lay near! :( Great work with screenshots! @Stuart: Is it possible to import cloudlayers.xml into property tree, and edit values with gui-CloudEditor with instant preview? -- --- WBR, Vadym. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
The cloud rendering is really getting to be phenomenal. Very impressive. I'd vote for the cloud modeler[s] to get the $250 developer prize. :-) Really stunning work, guys. Jon -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c
Hi there, 30 seconds with a text editor did the trick - thanks mate! I'm impressed with the work done in cvs - despite the visuals looking better than ever before the current cvs now gives me better framerates than fg has managed on this laptop before - hats off to all involved! With shadows it'll look amazing. I even wonder if it would be possible to get the clouds to cast shadows too... :-) Kind regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Scott Hamilton scott.hamil...@popplanet.biz To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 28 October, 2009 9:39:06 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 03:32 -0700, Chris Wilkinson wrote: Hi ya Chris, Gijs gives a good overview of what you need to do on the forums; http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4t=5759st=0sk=tsd=astart=30#p46112 basically changes in the shaders for a little while ago, need the material in the .ac model to be updated. Hope that helps S. but my 777-300ER appears to need a serious clean - even at noon the jet appears black on the shady side and sooty grey on the sunny side! The terrain looks fine, as do some static building models I've placed in the scene, and other a/c I haven't worked on look normal. Just my one looks dirty! Any advice on the flaps/dark texture issues? Kind regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/-- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
Csaba Halász wrote: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: This is getting silly. I've now committed code that checks is the source and listener are further apart than 50km or if there are any NaN's in the position, orientation or velocity data of the source or listener. If the sound is still inaudible while FlightGear prints a warning in the sort of NaN detected in position or source and listener distance greater than 50km then I'm really going to suspect a bug in the OpenAL implementation. Starting at EGLL with the default c172p, I notice: 1) the engine sound is louder in cockpit than in external view 2) tuning to ATIS 123.9 I get the source and listener distance greater than 50km! message (twice) This suggests it's just a startup problem, otherwise you would have such a message every frame. 3) tuning away from ATIS frequency does not stop ATIS sound About item #3: lines 267-8 in ATC.cxx: _sgr-stop(refname); _sgr-remove(refname); stop() only sets a flag that is checked in SGSampleGroup::update. However, remove() removes the sample immediately from the _samples collection and puts it into the _removed_samples. From there, only sounds that are really stopped (OpenAl-wise) get cleaned up. Except the update() never gets a chance to stop the sample because it is already removed from the active collection. (ATIS is not the only example for this) Thanks for the heads-up, I've fixed this locally already. I'm now looking at the position and orientation code again. Looking at the code I spotted that FGATC::_playing isn't initialized in the constructor, please fix it if you have a spare moment. Also, Alright, I've fixed it locally but it's beyond the soundmanager code. generating random refname for sound samples but then using a different refname to add it into the _samples collection is confusing. I mean, It sure confused me, I thought I was seeing memory corruption and started to hunt it down :) Problem is that samples generated with user supplied data all shared the same name. I've made it a bit more obvious but still random. Erik -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
Vadym Kukhtin wrote: 2009/10/28 Heiko Schulz : Maybe Vadym can make this also from the same source- would be great! Now I'm always with my camera in the pocket, and I mad in hunting for clouds :) It takes long time to take 20-30 good photo of certain type cloud, but I try. Great! @Stuart: Is it possible to import cloudlayers.xml into property tree, and edit values with gui-CloudEditor with instant preview? The cloudlayers.xml file is already in the property tree under /environment/cloudlayers. :) You can get an instant preview by changing the cloud settings under Environment-Clouds when using the Manual Weather Scenario. I find this a very useful way to tune the parameters in cloudlayers.xml. -Stuart -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
Csaba Halász wrote: Starting at EGLL with the default c172p, I notice: 1) the engine sound is louder in cockpit than in external view 2) tuning to ATIS 123.9 I get the source and listener distance greater than 50km! message (twice) 3) tuning away from ATIS frequency does not stop ATIS sound The fixes for these problems have been committed to CVS now. beware: outside view orientation is still wring since the view manager behaves differently for inside-aircraft views and for look-at-aircraft views. That said, the velocity (and hence Doppler) should be fixed now and in cockpit view should be working properly also (apart from a small offset bug that pops up every now and then causing the sound to 'wobble' around). Erik -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Altimeter setting does not produce correct field altitude
Tim Moore wrote: On 10/27/2009 01:49 PM, dave perry wrote: Tim Moore wrote: On 10/17/2009 07:42 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:24 -0600, dave perry wrote: With current cvs update on my notebook, I am not getting the correct field elevation when I set the altimeter to match the real weather altimeter setting. It is off by 160 feet today at KLMO (field elevation 5052). With my desktop which was last updated from cvs about 10/3, it is very nearly correct even with radically high or low pressures. I've seen this problem going back into the middle of September: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg23719.html It would be nice if someone figured out how to fix this... With Ron's help I've committed a fix for this. Please check it out and report any further problems. Thanks, Tim Hi Tim, With the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) in the weather conditions table from the Environment gui, the field elevations I checked were correct. But the number in this table no longer matches the real weather scenario metar number. I believe Torsten made significant changes to the real weather code. I just did a test with real-weather-fetch at KSLC. When I set the altimeter using the QNH in the metar -- 29.76 -- the altitude is right on, as far as I can see. It's true that this pressure doesn't match the pressure shown in the Environment Conditions gui, 29.814, but that is to be expected; that pressure is now the true pressure at sea level, not the altimeter pressure. Does this jibe with what you're seeing? Tim Hi Tim, Yes. After an update of fgfs and simgear this morning, I started at KEGE (Eagle County RGNL with a field elevation and TDZE both equal to 6540 ft using real weather. The QNH was 29.37 from metar. When I set the altimeter to this, it indicated 6528. Since I was at the threshold, not the TZE, that is close enough and much closer that with the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions. ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions used to be the QNH and one could reset it in the gui while flying so that the pressure altitude and the indicated altitude with the altimeter set to the QNH were not the same. In that case, one could do an approach and the minimums were realistic. It seems that we can no longer do this when using the manual input as the metar source. Why does the sim pilot need to know the sealevel pressure? In the above manual scenario, the sim pilot does need to know the QNH. Regards, Dave P. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:14 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910270650p21349d36x27b990b1a8ea3...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Leonardo Fabian Grodek wrote: Hi, Looking for information on autopilots I've found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/piccolo_II.shtm#software In the list of downloadable software you can see Flightgear listed, with credits. I've also found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf Those more active than me in FG development (almost everybody but me indeed...) could feel proud of their work by seeing FG recommended by industry leaders. I got to see a Cloudcap Piccolo flying on big UAV earlier this fall (16' wing span, 150 lbs beast of an airplane). This was an older piccolo. I hear v2 is even better. Good stuff! (of course the uav stuff I'm working will be much better once it is finished.) :-) Curt. ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Altimeter setting does not produce correct field altitude
On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 09:56 -0600, dave perry wrote: Tim Moore wrote: On 10/27/2009 01:49 PM, dave perry wrote: Tim Moore wrote: On 10/17/2009 07:42 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:24 -0600, dave perry wrote: With current cvs update on my notebook, I am not getting the correct field elevation when I set the altimeter to match the real weather altimeter setting. It is off by 160 feet today at KLMO (field elevation 5052). With my desktop which was last updated from cvs about 10/3, it is very nearly correct even with radically high or low pressures. I've seen this problem going back into the middle of September: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg23719.html It would be nice if someone figured out how to fix this... With Ron's help I've committed a fix for this. Please check it out and report any further problems. Thanks, Tim Hi Tim, With the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) in the weather conditions table from the Environment gui, the field elevations I checked were correct. But the number in this table no longer matches the real weather scenario metar number. I believe Torsten made significant changes to the real weather code. I just did a test with real-weather-fetch at KSLC. When I set the altimeter using the QNH in the metar -- 29.76 -- the altitude is right on, as far as I can see. It's true that this pressure doesn't match the pressure shown in the Environment Conditions gui, 29.814, but that is to be expected; that pressure is now the true pressure at sea level, not the altimeter pressure. Does this jibe with what you're seeing? Tim Hi Tim, Yes. After an update of fgfs and simgear this morning, I started at KEGE (Eagle County RGNL with a field elevation and TDZE both equal to 6540 ft using real weather. The QNH was 29.37 from metar. When I set the altimeter to this, it indicated 6528. Since I was at the threshold, not the TZE, that is close enough and much closer that with the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions. ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions used to be the QNH and one could reset it in the gui while flying so that the pressure altitude and the indicated altitude with the altimeter set to the QNH were not the same. In that case, one could do an approach and the minimums were realistic. It seems that we can no longer do this when using the manual input as the metar source. Why does the sim pilot need to know the sealevel pressure? In the above manual scenario, the sim pilot does need to know the QNH. Regards, Dave P. Hi Dave, The issue is, we used to use a constant pressure vs. altitude rate. With this model sea-level-pressure and QNH are the same. However, we now use a more realistic model whose pressure vs. altitude rate varies based temperature. This had the impact of making sea-level-pressure and QNH different. QNH is based on field elevation, so it may/will vary based on what airport you're trying to set it for. Perhaps a nasal script would be best for determining QNH on a per airport basis? Ron -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear URL verification patch
On Tuesday 27 Oct 2009, Rob Shearman, Jr. wrote: Leee, you said If someone were to redistribute an altered binary derived from a GPL'd work without making the corresponding source code available then it is a straightforward violation of the GPL and that is where the remedy should be sought. Yet that is exactly what we believe is happening with this FlightProSim company. Then we need to prove that it's an altered copy of FG, and then request the source code containing the amendment. I can't see anything in the GPL concerning altered binaries but if it is a derivative work then it must still comply with the GPL and this means making the corresponding source code available. In this case then, if someone amends the binary, they must make available source code that reflects the amendment. Failure to do so would be a violation of the license, which then precludes them from using or distributing the work. Trying to use the GPL inappropriately, as it seems we are doing here, is asking for trouble as it could be argued that it is impossible to comply with the license, making it invalid, and thereby leaving the FG data material completely unprotected. What protection is the GPL giving us, if we know of a violator but seem to have no ability to effect enforcement? The GPL doesn't protect us i.e. the developers - it protects the software. The relevant part of the GPL here is Condition 4, which says You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy, modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License.[...] So if there is a violation of the license then the violator loses all rights to use or redistribute the work. If we can show that a violation has occurred then our first action is to inform the violator that they are in violation of the license and that they must desist. In the strictest terms, they have already lost any rights, but in practice, and in most of the cases where it has happened, the violator has been allowed to continue their distribution if they comply with the license. The idea after all, is not to prevent redistribution but to encourage it. However, if the violator refuses to comply and continues distributing the work then you have to decide how to persue the matter. This might range from serving a formal legal notice to contacting the companies or organisations further up the 'internet' hierarchy e.g. the hosting provider or the appropriate controlling body, and telling them that they are providing a service, or that a service is being provided, for an illegal activity and having been given notice of this, they should act to stop it. Note that even if you charge money for your GPL'd work, you can't expect to obtain any compensation for a violation of the GPL. Even though you may charge for your work, anyone else is able to obtain the code and distribute it for no charge. In view of this then, I don't think anyone would accept that you have suffered a material loss from the violation as you would suffer the same loss from compliant redistribution. LeeE -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:14 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910270650p21349d36x27b990b1a8ea3...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Leonardo Fabian Grodek wrote: Hi, Looking for information on autopilots I've found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/piccolo_II.shtm#software In the list of downloadable software you can see Flightgear listed, with credits. I've also found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf Those more active than me in FG development (almost everybody but me indeed...) could feel proud of their work by seeing FG recommended by industry leaders. I got to see a Cloudcap Piccolo flying on big UAV earlier this fall (16' wing span, 150 lbs beast of an airplane). This was an older piccolo. I hear v2 is even better. Good stuff! (of course the uav stuff I'm working will be much better once it is finished.) :-) Curt. ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ -- Well, under Piccolo Systems -- Downloads -- Piccolo Setup and User Guides, there's a link to this Piccolo Simulator document: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf In the Introduction of this document they mention the open source Flightgear simulator. Then, on page 40 they explain how to install Flightgear, and on page 42 they finally discover one of Flightgear's how-to pages. From here the user could get to all Flightgear information and sources. I agree they could have mentioned Flightgear's link for the sources in a more otstanding way; nevertheless, it seems they are not trying to hide the openeness of the simulator; they may have overseen something in the GPL rules, and by presenting to them this issue they would include a link to the Download Source Code page. Fabian -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
I have a collection of cloud photos I've taken over the summer ... I had plans to try cumulus textures myself.If anyone would like to try , I could zip the photos and put them up for download somewhere. They are mostly towering cumulus tops , so I don't know how much use they would be, but my own attempts haven't turned out so well. By the way , I still think Heiko did a good job on them... Cheers On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Stuart Buchanan stuart_d_bucha...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Vadym Kukhtin wrote: 2009/10/28 Heiko Schulz : Maybe Vadym can make this also from the same source- would be great! Now I'm always with my camera in the pocket, and I mad in hunting for clouds :) It takes long time to take 20-30 good photo of certain type cloud, but I try. Great! @Stuart: Is it possible to import cloudlayers.xml into property tree, and edit values with gui-CloudEditor with instant preview? The cloudlayers.xml file is already in the property tree under /environment/cloudlayers. :) You can get an instant preview by changing the cloud settings under Environment-Clouds when using the Manual Weather Scenario. I find this a very useful way to tune the parameters in cloudlayers.xml. -Stuart -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c
Chris A few months back you kindly sent me a link for your 777-300ER. I could never get it to start up using CVS. Now I see you have fixed a problem with the autopilot. Can I download the fixed version now, please ? Thanks for all your work. -- Best Regards Willie Fleming 0141 637 6443 a href=http://www.uwdcvideos.co.uk/index.taf?exref=174007v=1; target=_blank img src=http://www.uwdcvideos.co.uk/images/b1.gif; border= 0 width=468 height=60/a -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
Anybody got sounds working properly on *windows* (ATIS and aircraft sounds working at the same time ?) If yes, what is your setup, not just openAL wise, but do you also build OSG, and if yes, with what options ? Share as much as possible of your setup, if current CVS works for you, please. I think we might have some initialization issues coupled to timing issues, as the same exe just had functioning ATIS on one run, and on the next, with the same command line (not using fgrun for this) except log level set to debug instead of info, ATIS wasn't working anymore. In both cases, no aircraft sounds at all. And the big problems started with rearrangement of the sound manager initialisation in the init routines, iirc. My october 2nd release build has fully working positional audio for aircraft sounds, working ATIS, etc. That might point to timing issues, no ? I would be very surprised it's an OpenAL implementation/runtime problem as I've tried every possible permutation of runtime, software device used, and ways to build FGFS, including using OpenAL soft instead of the SDK or Fredb's setup, and while changing runtimes (and rebooting) has no effect on the games I have installed that use OpenAL for positional sound, it hasn't made FGFS work properly. Erik, if you have hints on what part of the code you'd like to step through in the debugger here, I'd appreciate said pointers, rather than trying to root out a bug whose location I'm all but sure about :) Cheers and thanks for your cooperation all, Nic On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: Csaba Halász wrote: Starting at EGLL with the default c172p, I notice: 1) the engine sound is louder in cockpit than in external view 2) tuning to ATIS 123.9 I get the source and listener distance greater than 50km! message (twice) 3) tuning away from ATIS frequency does not stop ATIS sound The fixes for these problems have been committed to CVS now. beware: outside view orientation is still wring since the view manager behaves differently for inside-aircraft views and for look-at-aircraft views. That said, the velocity (and hence Doppler) should be fixed now and in cockpit view should be working properly also (apart from a small offset bug that pops up every now and then causing the sound to 'wobble' around). Erik -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Be Kind. Remember, everyone is fighting a hard battle. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
Hi Arnt, Arnt Karlsen schrieb am 28.10.2009 17:26: ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ Do they have to provide the source to everyone? Or do they just need to deliver the license within the download and provide the source to everyone who asks for it (or, if they didn't altered the source: a link to http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/source.shtml ) Maik -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Photorealistic textures for cumulus clouds
Hi, I have a collection of cloud photos I've taken over the summer ... I had plans to try cumulus textures myself.If anyone would like to try , I could zip the photos and put them up for download somewhere. They are mostly towering cumulus tops , so I don't know how much use they would be, but my own attempts haven't turned out so well. By the way , I still think Heiko did a good job on them... Cheers Thanks, I have still a small collection too, and I could also zip them and put up for download too. I was never been happy with my work and I think Vadym has the better knowledge to prepare them to use! Maybe we should have several sets- one set for each cloudtype like cu small, cu big, cb small, cb big etc... This gives more randomness and it shoulden't increase the package too big later... Cheers HHS -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Wednesday, 28. October 2009, Maik Justus wrote: Arnt Karlsen schrieb am 28.10.2009 17:26: ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ Do they have to provide the source to everyone? Or do they just need to deliver the license within the download and provide the source to everyone who asks for it (or, if they didn't altered the source: a link to http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/source.shtml ) This whole discussion about the GPL and people/companies redistributing FG seems to be based on a very wrong assumption: that we have to figure it out completely on our selfs. People, there is the GPL FAQ, which is very easy to read. There's the Free Software Foundation which is quite passionate about defending free software like FlightGear. There's the Software Freedom Law Center which provides services free of charge to free software projects and gives for example License Defense and Litigation Support. Yes, that means that there actually are free lawyers available for projects like FlightGear. Why not use them instead of guessing on our own what and how to do? With regard to the question about the GPL: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeWithSourceOnInternet Cheers, Stefan -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
Forgot to mention it's still crashing in Debug mode due to a corrupt heap (according to the debugger, this is the likely culprit) on the SGSoundSample::free_data() call, you guessed it, on the same spot as a couple weeks back : rumble.wav. No changes in behaviour in DEBUG mode even with all the recent changes. Which could also point to other misbehaved code, maybe even outside the sound code. I simply don't know. Cheers, Nic On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Nicolas Quijano nquij...@gmail.com wrote: Anybody got sounds working properly on *windows* (ATIS and aircraft sounds working at the same time ?) If yes, what is your setup, not just openAL wise, but do you also build OSG, and if yes, with what options ? Share as much as possible of your setup, if current CVS works for you, please. I think we might have some initialization issues coupled to timing issues, as the same exe just had functioning ATIS on one run, and on the next, with the same command line (not using fgrun for this) except log level set to debug instead of info, ATIS wasn't working anymore. In both cases, no aircraft sounds at all. And the big problems started with rearrangement of the sound manager initialisation in the init routines, iirc. My october 2nd release build has fully working positional audio for aircraft sounds, working ATIS, etc. That might point to timing issues, no ? I would be very surprised it's an OpenAL implementation/runtime problem as I've tried every possible permutation of runtime, software device used, and ways to build FGFS, including using OpenAL soft instead of the SDK or Fredb's setup, and while changing runtimes (and rebooting) has no effect on the games I have installed that use OpenAL for positional sound, it hasn't made FGFS work properly. Erik, if you have hints on what part of the code you'd like to step through in the debugger here, I'd appreciate said pointers, rather than trying to root out a bug whose location I'm all but sure about :) Cheers and thanks for your cooperation all, Nic -- Be Kind. Remember, everyone is fighting a hard battle. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c
Hi Willie, An updated copy is winging its way to your personal email... Regards, Chris W, YBBN/BNE. From: willie wil...@glasgownet.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thu, 29 October, 2009 5:37:08 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flap keys not working, and very dark rendering of a/c Chris A few months back you kindly sent me a link for your 777-300ER. I could never get it to start up using CVS. Now I see you have fixed a problem with the autopilot. Can I download the fixed version now, please ? Thanks for all your work. -- Best Regards Willie Fleming 0141 637 6443 a href=http://www.uwdcvideos.co.uk/index.taf?exref=174007v=1; target=_blank img src=http://www.uwdcvideos.co.uk/images/b1.gif; border= 0 width=468 height=60/a -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/-- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Altimeter setting does not produce correct field altitude
On 10/28/2009 05:53 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 09:56 -0600, dave perry wrote: Tim Moore wrote: On 10/27/2009 01:49 PM, dave perry wrote: Tim Moore wrote: On 10/17/2009 07:42 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:24 -0600, dave perry wrote: With current cvs update on my notebook, I am not getting the correct field elevation when I set the altimeter to match the real weather altimeter setting. It is off by 160 feet today at KLMO (field elevation 5052). With my desktop which was last updated from cvs about 10/3, it is very nearly correct even with radically high or low pressures. I've seen this problem going back into the middle of September: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg23719.html It would be nice if someone figured out how to fix this... With Ron's help I've committed a fix for this. Please check it out and report any further problems. Thanks, Tim Hi Tim, With the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) in the weather conditions table from the Environment gui, the field elevations I checked were correct. But the number in this table no longer matches the real weather scenario metar number. I believe Torsten made significant changes to the real weather code. I just did a test with real-weather-fetch at KSLC. When I set the altimeter using the QNH in the metar -- 29.76 -- the altitude is right on, as far as I can see. It's true that this pressure doesn't match the pressure shown in the Environment Conditions gui, 29.814, but that is to be expected; that pressure is now the true pressure at sea level, not the altimeter pressure. Does this jibe with what you're seeing? Tim Hi Tim, Yes. After an update of fgfs and simgear this morning, I started at KEGE (Eagle County RGNL with a field elevation and TDZE both equal to 6540 ft using real weather. The QNH was 29.37 from metar. When I set the altimeter to this, it indicated 6528. Since I was at the threshold, not the TZE, that is close enough and much closer that with the altimeter set to the ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions. ALT (in hg) from the gui weather conditions used to be the QNH and one could reset it in the gui while flying so that the pressure altitude and the indicated altitude with the altimeter set to the QNH were not the same. In that case, one could do an approach and the minimums were realistic. It seems that we can no longer do this when using the manual input as the metar source. Why does the sim pilot need to know the sealevel pressure? In the above manual scenario, the sim pilot does need to know the QNH. Regards, Dave P. Hi Dave, The issue is, we used to use a constant pressure vs. altitude rate. With this model sea-level-pressure and QNH are the same. However, we now use a more realistic model whose pressure vs. altitude rate varies based temperature. This had the impact of making sea-level-pressure and QNH different. QNH is based on field elevation, so it may/will vary based on what airport you're trying to set it for. Perhaps a nasal script would be best for determining QNH on a per airport basis? In any event, I realize that the label Alt (in HG) is totally wrong. If it is useful to set the QNH directly in this dialog, then the interface will need to be recoded a bit. Tim -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] groundcache get_body() question
Hello Mathias, I am trying to use the get_body method in that old gear friction patch of mine but I am having some trouble. I think the returned bodyToWorld matrix is just the orientation of the carrier, without the translation. Is this correct or is just my lousy math bugging me? If this is the correct behavior, how can I get the position of the carrier? I don't really get the BodyFinder so I couldn't figure it out myself. Regards, Diogo -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
Hi Erik! If a sound sample keeps its default orientation of all zeroes then in SGSoundSample::update_absolute_position the sc2body*q will be also null and cause a division by zero in SGQuatdouble::backTransform. -- Csaba/Jester -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:08:17 +0200, Leonardo wrote in message 1cc3f5360910281208h5ea7ca78k4638c1af06bbe...@mail.gmail.com: On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:14 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910270650p21349d36x27b990b1a8ea3...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Leonardo Fabian Grodek wrote: Hi, Looking for information on autopilots I've found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/piccolo_II.shtm#software In the list of downloadable software you can see Flightgear listed, with credits. I've also found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf Those more active than me in FG development (almost everybody but me indeed...) could feel proud of their work by seeing FG recommended by industry leaders. I got to see a Cloudcap Piccolo flying on big UAV earlier this fall (16' wing span, 150 lbs beast of an airplane). This was an older piccolo. I hear v2 is even better. Good stuff! (of course the uav stuff I'm working will be much better once it is finished.) :-) Curt. ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ -- Well, under Piccolo Systems -- Downloads -- Piccolo Setup and User Guides, there's a link to this Piccolo Simulator document: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf In the Introduction of this document they mention the open source Flightgear simulator. Then, on page 40 they explain how to install Flightgear, and on page 42 they finally discover one of Flightgear's how-to pages. From here the user could get to all Flightgear information and sources. I agree they could have mentioned Flightgear's link for the sources in a more otstanding way; nevertheless, it seems they are not trying to hide the openeness of the simulator; they may have overseen something in the GPL rules, and by presenting to them this issue they would include a link to the Download Source Code page. ..actually, it is _they_ (cloudcaptech.com) who needs to provide the sources for their FG-0.9.8, FG-0.9.9 and FG-0.9.10 binaries, for as long as they are publishing these obsolete binaries, and for 3 full years after they yank them down, check Stefan's and Heiko's responses. ..in their shoes, to comply, I would yank the obsolete binaries, drop the tarballed sources for each of these obsolete FG versions in where each of their respective binaries used to be, and ask each FG developer author for permission under GPLv2, to publish their work to honor my obligations for the next 3 years under the GPL. ..for FG etc GPL binaries, the easiest way is simply point directly to FlightGear.org like Big Blue IBM does. ;o) Fabian -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
