Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:56:15 +0800, Harry wrote in message AANLkTi=8thXo9cAkqJVTO3VugLv58rye=Tb1V6f=v...@mail.gmail.com: Thanks gents, Bearing in mind I only want these installations to run FG and supporting apps. I had a look at ssd prices today, maybe its time for a rethink. seems there a a lot of small 32g 2.5 sata ones for around the 70usd mark. Infact there are even cheaper ones but they seem to be a lot slower in access times. USB thumb sticks are not so much cheaper for similar sizes For that kind of money a small sata ssd is maybe a more sensible aproach than trying to load a ramdisk? Just normal distro sata install but all of hard disk issues are done away with. I am having a play with LTSP, and have downloaded Knoppix, and now am having a look at the re mastering information, it looks good. I will take some time to learn a bit and play with it. I did not consider live boot cds before, I did not see the potential in what I passed off as a demo gimmic. ..a coupla years ago, it _was_ a gimmick. ;o) But it might be the way to go if used in a stick. I can use the PXE to work around these weird Kingston 8g sticks I have that wont boot. ..if you like Knoppix re-mastering, you will _love_ playing with the Debian Live builder tools, which IMHO makes Knoppix obsolete. ..I have no experience with LTSP, but this _sounds_ like a Right Way, it and PXE etc support apps can easily be put on a Debian Live SSD usb stick to throw around automagic Wow shows, ala Can I try boot that laptop to the left off this usb stick to see if it can run FlightGear properly, you know with flyable framerates?. ;o) ..some mall shops have these nice big walls with dozens of TV etc screens, running GPL firmware... ;o) Cheers.Harry -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
Harry Campigli wrote: Could I ask if any one has had FG or for that matter any app on a linux box running in a ramdisk environment with no Hd? Why, its fast to boot, [...] I might be getting your intention wrong, yet I suspect you forgot to add the time required to fill the ram disk from, well, from network. Are you really talking about ramdisk, in the sense of use a portion of RAM and mount it as a filesystem or maybe flash-disk instead ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:46:04 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message ih134s$q03c$1...@osprey.mgras.de: Harry Campigli wrote: Could I ask if any one has had FG or for that matter any app on a linux box running in a ramdisk environment with no Hd? Why, its fast to boot, [...] ..I have, a few years back, quickest way this far was simply put FG on a remade Knoppix style iso on harddisk ;o), then boot that image from:/path/to/iso toram, AFAIR, this was before Knoppix knew how to keep data past reboots and on 384MB + swap. ;o) ..Debian Live, is the way to go here, it's a lot easier to set up. Also possible to play with clustering, single boxes has hardware limits that can be piled way up in clusters. ;o) I might be getting your intention wrong, yet I suspect you forgot to add the time required to fill the ram disk from, well, from network. ..takes a Gigabit or better nic to beat reading an harddisk to ram. Are you really talking about ramdisk, in the sense of use a portion of RAM and mount it as a filesystem or maybe flash-disk instead ? ..ooo, SSDs would be wicked fast, though. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
Helllo Martin and Arnt, Thanks for the replies. I better explain myself and my reasoning a bit. I fully agree that you are quite correct in that the ram load up is quicker directly from the HD than over a network, but I am aiming to do away with Hds in the FG sim boxes. First, re my mention of speed, I am meaning the running of the whole os and FG entirely in ramdisk after boot, the pc being ramed up a bit more than normal to have room, so I mean fast in respect that after boot, the whole show is in ram. Secondly, I meant fast in the respect that a new system install is far quicker than from a dvd, especialy the hassle of burning them, and latter having problems with reading them. Sorry I was a bit off subject and unclear before. Thirdly I mean quicker than running the system on a thumbstick. For about a year I have had FG2 on suse11.2 running on a Kingston 8gb data traveler with no HD at all, its good, easy to install and runs ok, possibly bit slower to boot up, but its only a matter of time before the stick write will definetly wear out. I think its a reasonable quality thumbstick but may be wrong. I planed to use the stick as the basis to load a ram based install, so seeing it worked ok as the system drive and intending to work on the ram disk aspect, I brought 4 more of these same Kinsgton 8 gb sticks for the remaining pcs in my FG setup, only to find on delivery they looked a bit different, unfortunatly they were also somehow different inside and till now impossible to make bootable unlike every other stick I have tried. Thus I figured, better and cheaper to have everything come from one server sitting on terra firma, HDs are not a realistic option for me because of the motion. On the same score, as Arnt mentions,I guess SSDs would be the best way, and a lot easier to implement from this point, last I looked the prices were abit scary though? I will download a Debian live image, search out soem documentation and howtos for it and have a play. Without opening a can of worms about Os's , I have used suse since v5 or 6, but make no claim its better than any other, just the devil i am most familar with. Would Debian be better than Suse for this for any particular reason. Assuming both are recent releases. Arnt could you also breifly explain your mention of clustering in Debian live? I guess if possible I would like to stay with as close as possible to a normal upto date off the shelf linux release, one that can be installed in the normal HD, have everthing required installed complied, set up and configured , the finally sort of cloned off with minimal modification to a ramdisk. I thought a patched initrd would make this easy enough and keep hacks to a minimum? This means the OS can easily be updated with the development of FG. regards Harry On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:46:04 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message ih134s$q03c$1...@osprey.mgras.de: Harry Campigli wrote: Could I ask if any one has had FG or for that matter any app on a linux box running in a ramdisk environment with no Hd? Why, its fast to boot, [...] ..I have, a few years back, quickest way this far was simply put FG on a remade Knoppix style iso on harddisk ;o), then boot that image from:/path/to/iso toram, AFAIR, this was before Knoppix knew how to keep data past reboots and on 384MB + swap. ;o) ..Debian Live, is the way to go here, it's a lot easier to set up. Also possible to play with clustering, single boxes has hardware limits that can be piled way up in clusters. ;o) I might be getting your intention wrong, yet I suspect you forgot to add the time required to fill the ram disk from, well, from network. ..takes a Gigabit or better nic to beat reading an harddisk to ram. Are you really talking about ramdisk, in the sense of use a portion of RAM and mount it as a filesystem or maybe flash-disk instead ? ..ooo, SSDs would be wicked fast, though. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Regards Harry 19b Jln Danau Poso Sanur, Bali 80228 H +62 361 285629 M +62 812 7016328 -- Protect Your Site and Customers from
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
Harry Campigli wrote: I better explain myself and my reasoning a bit. I fully agree that you are quite correct in that the ram load up is quicker directly from the HD than over a network, but I am aiming to do away with Hds in the FG sim boxes. At Linux installations in regular schools I'm using LTSP for the diskless terminals. LTSP comes almost ready-to-run right out of the box from alioth, is pretty good at having the graphics set up properly (including OpenGL drivers) and provides the required hooks at bootup for copying all the FlightGear stuff into your ramdisk (just drop a script into /etc/ltsp/ on the client). That would probably be the route I'd take for setting up fast, diskless FlightGear-stations, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
Thanks gents, Bearing in mind I only want these installations to run FG and supporting apps. I had a look at ssd prices today, maybe its time for a rethink. seems there a a lot of small 32g 2.5 sata ones for around the 70usd mark. Infact there are even cheaper ones but they seem to be a lot slower in access times. USB thumb sticks are not so much cheaper for similar sizes For that kind of money a small sata ssd is maybe a more sensible aproach than trying to load a ramdisk? Just normal distro sata install but all of hard disk issues are done away with. I am having a play with LTSP, and have downloaded Knoppix, and now am having a look at the re mastering information, it looks good. I will take some time to learn a bit and play with it. I did not consider live boot cds before, I did not see the potential in what I passed off as a demo gimmic. But it might be the way to go if used in a stick. I can use the PXE to work around these weird Kingston 8g sticks I have that wont boot. Cheers.Harry On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Harry Campigli wrote: I better explain myself and my reasoning a bit. I fully agree that you are quite correct in that the ram load up is quicker directly from the HD than over a network, but I am aiming to do away with Hds in the FG sim boxes. At Linux installations in regular schools I'm using LTSP for the diskless terminals. LTSP comes almost ready-to-run right out of the box from alioth, is pretty good at having the graphics set up properly (including OpenGL drivers) and provides the required hooks at bootup for copying all the FlightGear stuff into your ramdisk (just drop a script into /etc/ltsp/ on the client). That would probably be the route I'd take for setting up fast, diskless FlightGear-stations, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Regards Harry 19b Jln Danau Poso Sanur, Bali 80228 H +62 361 285629 M +62 812 7016328 -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
