Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
Sydney would be better for me (to go hunt this scumbag down) than somewhere in the USA - its only an 8 hr drive to Sydney for me, although I'd prefer to fly... :-) Who knows where he actually trades from, I suspect with the number of aliases used and web domains registered for the same product two things this guy/gal/group doesn't want is to be either found or identified (or held accountable) - the hallmarks of a true criminal. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:57:48 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:25:06 -0800 (PST), Chris wrote in message 86015.90161...@web56902.mail.re3.yahoo.com: From: Mally ma...@tklm.freeserve.co.uk flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 11:43:05 AM Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). Mally Dan Freeman has a few articles on Ezine, however I have just reported him to Ezine. Ezine reports he is based in the USA, yet his business trades out of NZ. Dodgy. ..maybe he took flight lessons from the opera kangaroos... ;o) I have suggested Ezine remove him from their site, based on his/her/its continued unwillingness to adhere to the explicit conditions of the GPL, in selling these opensource softwares. If it is within my power to do so, I will do what I can to make life difficult for this scum. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. ..a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois proflightsimulator.com [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com] [Redirected to whois.enom.com] [Querying whois.enom.com] [whois.enom.com] =-=-=-= Visit AboutUs.org for more information about proflightsimulator.com a href=http://www.aboutus.org/proflightsimulator.com;AboutUs: proflightsimulator.com/a Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com Contact: supp...@namecheap.com Visit: http://namecheap.com Domain name: proflightsimulator.com Registrant Contact: Media Mix Merch Dan Freeman () Fax: 13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay #09-02 Sydney, NSW 2000 AU Administrative Contact: Media Mix Merch Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com) +61.581990163 Fax: +1.55 13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay #09-02 Sydney, NSW 2000 AU Technical Contact: Media Mix Merch Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com) +61.581990163 Fax: +1.55 13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay #09-02 Sydney, NSW 2000 AU Status: Locked Name Servers: ns1639.hostgator.com ns1640.hostgator.com Creation date: 26 Feb 2009 18:55:02 Expiration date: 26 Feb 2013 18:55:02 Get Noticed on the Internet! Increase visibility for this domain name by listing it at www.whoisbusinesslistings.com =-=-=-= The data in this whois database is provided to you for information purposes only, that is, to assist you in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. We make this information available as is, and do not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a whois query, you agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that stress or load this whois database system providing you this information; or (2) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone. The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is expressly prohibited without prior written consent from us. We reserve the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query, you agree to abide by these terms. Version 6.3 4/3/2002 a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois FlightProSim.com [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com] [Redirected to whois.godaddy.com] [Querying whois.godaddy.com] [whois.godaddy.com] The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database, while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided as is with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy. This information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you in obtaining information about domain name registration records. Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc. By submitting an inquiry, you agree
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
Curtis Olson wrote: Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source code? Could this be posted in a known location? Or is there a known link for downloading their code? It might be useful for us to maintain a reference copy ourselves somewhere. It should be no problem to get a copy of their code, right? Hi Curt, Not entirely sure whether you are being sarcastic or not, but I was able to get hold of the source code (without buying it I might add). It's not particularly easy to get hold off, or indeed to un-tar (various semi-corrupt files), but it is all there. As far as I can tell (IANAL) they are compliant with the GPL. I would strongly caution those wanting to go after this guy in person from doing so. It won't achieve anything. As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is basically a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into marketing and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we would be in a much better position. To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like Mark Avery who runs The Flight Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that people are aware of the situation. I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties. -Stuart -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
On 17 Nov 2010, at 13:32, Stuart Buchanan wrote: As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is basically a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into marketing and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we would be in a much better position. Couldn't agree more. To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like Mark Avery who runs The Flight Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that people are aware of the situation. I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties. The wiki has an official statement, it would be good to improve that, and then make it official. James -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi Curt, Not entirely sure whether you are being sarcastic or not, but I was able to get hold of the source code (without buying it I might add). It's not particularly easy to get hold off, or indeed to un-tar (various semi-corrupt files), but it is all there. As far as I can tell (IANAL) they are compliant with the GPL. I was actually being serious. If they claim they have made improvements, then we should be able to do a quick diff and see exactly what they've changed. If they actually have made some improvements (doubtful, but ...) then we might consider using them too. If we have people with time to nit pick, we could probably figure out if the version of the code they provide matches the binary they provide, or make sure they actually distribute code for their claimed improvements. I don't have time for this myself right now, but if someone wants to push this angle we might be able to tie up some of their time making sure they are 100% compliant with the GPL. I would strongly caution those wanting to go after this guy in person from doing so. It won't achieve anything. I agree, bad idea. The only likely outcomes are negative for us. As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is basically a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into marketing and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we would be in a much better position. For what it's worth, this guy is putting probably hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month into facebook and google ads and who knows where else. He's cherry picking people who are interested in flight simulation, but perhaps don't keep themselves abreast of the industry. We need a lot of viral marketing to combat that. Also, for what it's worth, I'm taking $50 of my own money every month and throwing it into a google adsense ad for FlightGear. I have no idea if this accomplishes anything and I've never seen my own ad show up ... it's a drop in the bucket compared to what this other guy must be investing in ads. To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like Mark Avery who runs The Flight Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that people are aware of the situation. This is all good. If people have their own blogs, or are members of other flight simulator related forums, even facebook, etc. it wouldn't hurt to drop a post or a news story every once in a while. Let's not say anything false or speculative about simproflight, but certainly let's make it clear that this guy is selling a stock copy of FlightGear which anyone can download for free (or purchase for about 1/3 of his price if you want it on dvd). And also we can point out that this guy is like one of those late night TV hustlers ... Vince from shamwow ... or the Late Great Billy Mays. Before you know it, you are buying it even though you don't even know what a flight simulator does. For example: http://zyzmog.blogspot.com/2010/11/proflightsimulator-something-just.html I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties. The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can easily be updated as the landscape changes. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
On 17 Nov 2010, at 15:36, James Turner wrote: The wiki has an official statement, it would be good to improve that, and then make it official. Err, that sentence is silly, apologies. What I mean is, it would be good to promote the wiki statement widely, eg, the newsletter, other flight sim sites, blogs, the forums, etc - as people are already doing - so that 'we the project' are presenting a single, coherent, factually based answer. James -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
Curtis Olson wrote: On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties. The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can easily be updated as the landscape changes. The problem with the wiki is that anyone can update it, and it doesn't come across as official. Having it on our website in the Announcements section would avoid anyone maliciously modifying it, while also making it very obvious that this is from the FlightGear development team. Given that we're dealing with an element of mis-representation on the part of FPS, I think it's particularly important that our information is clearly sourced. I don't think the situation is going to be fluid enough that we're going to need to update our statement very often... -Stuart -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
Dan Freeman has a few articles on Ezine, however I have just reported him to Ezine. Ezine reports he is based in the USA, yet his business trades out of NZ. Dodgy. I have suggested Ezine remove him from their site, based on his/her/its continued unwillingness to adhere to the explicit conditions of the GPL, in selling these opensource softwares. If it is within my power to do so, I will do what I can to make life difficult for this scum. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Mally ma...@tklm.freeserve.co.uk To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 11:43:05 AM Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3259 - Release Date: 11/15/10 -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote: ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect FSUIPC compatibility. :D Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source code? Could this be posted in a known location? Or is there a known link for downloading their code? It might be useful for us to maintain a reference copy ourselves somewhere. It should be no problem to get a copy of their code, right? On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote: On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote: ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect FSUIPC compatibility. :D Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
For the Windows brethren I'd be inclined to run a virus checker over that package before opening it. Spybots, virii, and trojans run hand in hand with the scammer community... I'm curious to see how old that source is, so will download a copy tonite... Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:47:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source code? Could this be posted in a known location? Or is there a known link for downloading their code? It might be useful for us to maintain a reference copy ourselves somewhere. It should be no problem to get a copy of their code, right? On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote: On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote: ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect FSUIPC compatibility. :D Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/ -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
While I tend to ignore these now, I am giving them a poor WOT score :) On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Chris Wilkinson blobster...@yahoo.com.au wrote: For the Windows brethren I'd be inclined to run a virus checker over that package before opening it. Spybots, virii, and trojans run hand in hand with the scammer community... I'm curious to see how old that source is, so will download a copy tonite... Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:47:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source code? Could this be posted in a known location? Or is there a known link for downloading their code? It might be useful for us to maintain a reference copy ourselves somewhere. It should be no problem to get a copy of their code, right? On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote: On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote: ?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect FSUIPC compatibility. :D Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/ -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
