Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Jim Hall  wrote:
> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Ercan Ersoy  wrote:
>
> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
>
> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.

How many POSIX utils do you want? There are many:

* http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/idx/utilities.html
* http://rubyquiz.com/quiz97.html

Yes, DJGPP already has lots of stuff (File-, Text-, ShellUtils ...
aka, CoreUtils).

Yes, we already have 16-bit ports for many things (sed, awk, grep).

I think some stuff is more useful than others. E.g., I'd rather have
hexdump than od, for instance.

You should try to glean some stuff from old Minix 2.0.4 sources (in
C), which have been BSD-licensed for a while now:

 src/CMD.TAZ   - Commands sources (cp, ls, mkdir, etc.)

https://minix1.woodhull.com/current/2.0.4/src/CMD.TAZ

>From there it should be fairly easy to get some common things working.

Or try to borrow from Landley's Toybox (also BSD-licensed):

http://landley.net/toybox/

(But I think it's better to be specific and limit yourself on what
exactly you will need and actively use.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Mark Olesen]

The links in the actual page route to simtel.net not

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Jim Hall  wrote:

> Do you mean the links from my email?
>
> I just clicked on them again from my phone, and the links work except the
> ftp link. My phone doesn't like ftp, I guess.
>
>
> On May 26, 2017 6:31 AM, "Mark Olesen"  wrote:
>
>> I was unsuccessful in finding any links that worked. Am I missing
>> something? Did anyone have better luck?
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Steve Nickolas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:
>>>
>>> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
 everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
 know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
 very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
 commands like: (from the README)

  beep
  cat
  cd
  clear
  cp
  date
  echo
  ls
  mkdir
  mv
  pwd
  rm
  rmdir
  sh
  time


 Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
 as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
 example.

>>>
>>> This.
>>>
>>> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
 good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
 which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
 stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
 their files. You can find them here:
 http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/

 Info here:
 http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm


 I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
 again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
 using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
 require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
 other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.

 *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
 already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
 sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
 one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.

>>>
>>> I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and
>>> ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...
>>>
>>> I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code
>>> and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot of
>>> rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I should
>>> try again.
>>>
>>> -uso.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Ercan Ersoy]

Thanks for interesting.

I would like add abilities to Minibox. But, I don't have much time for 
this. I would like someone developing.

I have cloned in GitHub.

GitHub Page:

https://github.com/ercanersoy/Minibox


Best regards,

Ercan

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Jim Hall]

>> I've been writing my own set of UNIX tools for DOS for personal use.
>> Would anyone like me to publish these here in their own thread?

We have a few Unix-workalike utilities on ibiblio.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/file/

I think over the weekend I'll create a new directory there, so we can
collect the Unix-like utilities in one place. Might call this "unix"
or "unix-like" or "unixish", probably under
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/file/

I'll post a note to the list to let folks know when it's done, and
where to find it.


Jim

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hi guys,


I've been writing my own set of UNIX tools for DOS for personal use.


Same here, only for Windows. :-) (Designed with portability in mind.)


Would anyone like me to publish these here in their own thread?


Yes, please.

I realized long ago that the DOS batch syntax is so poor that you can't 
do anything serious with batch files. But I knew Unix well enough to also 
realize that inventing my own batch language would fire back if I wanted 
to make my stuff multi-platform. Thus standard Unix and Unix-syle (but 
custom) pipe stages are the best solution: batch files will not become 
100% shell scripts but, at least, as similar as possible.



If so, are there any other commands that would be nice to add to them?


I missed a few things from "tr" and it was relatively simple to 
implement.


Joe
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[David McMackins]

I was thinking the same thing. I've been writing my own set of UNIX
tools for DOS for personal use. I've written cat, head, wc, and split,
and I've made my own implementation of getopt which uses DOS-style flags
(begin with '/', use ':' to separate flag from argument) called
getswitch. I used WCC specifically for binary size and 16-bit
compatibility/efficiency.

Would anyone like me to publish these here in their own thread? If so,
are there any other commands that would be nice to add to them?

Only slightly related, I also wrote a utility for taking a split archive
spread across multiple diskettes, reassembling it, and unzipping it at
C:\. I made this as a backup utility for DOS games I have in case the
original diskettes fail. I can publish that as well if requested.


Happy Hacking,

David E. McMackins II
Associate Member, Free Software Foundation (#12889)
Life Member, National Rifle Association of America (#226579338)

www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
www.gnu.org www.fsf.org

On 05/25/2017 06:59 PM, Jim Hall wrote:
> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Ercan Ersoy  wrote:
>>
>>> But looking at the source commited 20 minutes ago, it seems that no commands
>>> are yet implemented, it is only like a stub.
>>
>> Please read README. Also, Minibox includes commands in one executable file. 
>> (e.g. Busybox)
>>
>> Command Line: minibox command [arguments]
>>
>>> I am curious why it need DPMI and DJGPP for that? It is not enought Watcom 
>>> C++
>>> in 16 bit real mode?
>>
>> Because, Minibox porting for other platforms easily.
>>
> 
> 
> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
> commands like: (from the README)
> 
>   beep
>   cat
>   cd
>   clear
>   cp
>   date
>   echo
>   ls
>   mkdir
>   mv
>   pwd
>   rm
>   rmdir
>   sh
>   time
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
> as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
> example.
> 
> --
> 
> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
> good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
> which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
> stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
> their files. You can find them here:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/
> 
> Info here:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm
> 
> 
> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
> 
> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Jim Hall]

Do you mean the links from my email?

I just clicked on them again from my phone, and the links work except the
ftp link. My phone doesn't like ftp, I guess.


On May 26, 2017 6:31 AM, "Mark Olesen"  wrote:

> I was unsuccessful in finding any links that worked. Am I missing
> something? Did anyone have better luck?
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:
>>
>> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
>>> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
>>> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
>>> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
>>> commands like: (from the README)
>>>
>>>  beep
>>>  cat
>>>  cd
>>>  clear
>>>  cp
>>>  date
>>>  echo
>>>  ls
>>>  mkdir
>>>  mv
>>>  pwd
>>>  rm
>>>  rmdir
>>>  sh
>>>  time
>>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
>>> as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
>>> example.
>>>
>>
>> This.
>>
>> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
>>> good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
>>> which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
>>> stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
>>> their files. You can find them here:
>>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/
>>>
>>> Info here:
>>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
>>> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
>>> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
>>> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
>>> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
>>>
>>> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
>>> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
>>> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
>>> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.
>>>
>>
>> I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and
>> ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...
>>
>> I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code
>> and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot of
>> rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I should
>> try again.
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Freedos-devel mailing list
>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Mark Olesen]

I was unsuccessful in finding any links that worked. Am I missing
something? Did anyone have better luck?

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:

> On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:
>
> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
>> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
>> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
>> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
>> commands like: (from the README)
>>
>>  beep
>>  cat
>>  cd
>>  clear
>>  cp
>>  date
>>  echo
>>  ls
>>  mkdir
>>  mv
>>  pwd
>>  rm
>>  rmdir
>>  sh
>>  time
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
>> as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
>> example.
>>
>
> This.
>
> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
>> good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
>> which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
>> stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
>> their files. You can find them here:
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/
>>
>> Info here:
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm
>>
>>
>> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
>> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
>> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
>> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
>> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
>>
>> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
>> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
>> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
>> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.
>>
>
> I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and
> ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...
>
> I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code
> and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot of
> rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I should
> try again.
>
> -uso.
>
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Steve Nickolas]

On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:


Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
commands like: (from the README)

 beep
 cat
 cd
 clear
 cp
 date
 echo
 ls
 mkdir
 mv
 pwd
 rm
 rmdir
 sh
 time


Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
example.


This.


There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
their files. You can find them here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/

Info here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm


I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.

*That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.


I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and 
ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...


I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code 
and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot 
of rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I 
should try again.


-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Ralf Quint]

On 5/25/2017 4:59 PM, Jim Hall wrote:
>
> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
> commands like: (from the README)
Well, no offense to the OP, but I think this is one clear example that
people these days don't understand (anymore) what DOS is and how it
works, and instead treat it as a second coming of Linux... :-(

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Jim Hall]

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Ercan Ersoy  wrote:
>
> > But looking at the source commited 20 minutes ago, it seems that no commands
> > are yet implemented, it is only like a stub.
>
> Please read README. Also, Minibox includes commands in one executable file. 
> (e.g. Busybox)
>
> Command Line: minibox command [arguments]
>
> > I am curious why it need DPMI and DJGPP for that? It is not enought Watcom 
> > C++
> > in 16 bit real mode?
>
> Because, Minibox porting for other platforms easily.
>


Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
commands like: (from the README)

  beep
  cat
  cd
  clear
  cp
  date
  echo
  ls
  mkdir
  mv
  pwd
  rm
  rmdir
  sh
  time


Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
example.

--

There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
their files. You can find them here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/

Info here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm


I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.

*That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.


Jim

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Ercan Ersoy]

> But looking at the source commited 20 minutes ago, it seems that no commands
> are yet implemented, it is only like a stub.

Please read README. Also, Minibox includes commands in one executable file. 
(e.g. Busybox)

Command Line: minibox command [arguments]

> I am curious why it need DPMI and DJGPP for that? It is not enought Watcom 
> C++ 
> in 16 bit real mode?

Because, Minibox porting for other platforms easily.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Guti]

Thanks.
But looking at the source commited 20 minutes ago, it seems that no commands 
are yet implemented, it is only like a stub.
I am curious why it need DPMI and DJGPP for that? It is not enought Watcom C++ 
in 16 bit real mode?


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Remitente:Ercan Ersoy <ercaner...@outlook.com>
Destinatario: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
<freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Fecha:jueves, 25 de mayo de 2017, 15:25:28
Asunto:       [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox
Archivos: 
--===--
Hello. I have developed another program for FreeDOS. This program is 
Minibox.

Minibox provides some Linux commands for DOS.

Source code compiles by DJGPP. I suggest compressing this for UPX.

Minibox requires DPMI.


Website: https://gitlab.com/ercanersoy/Minibox


Best regards,

Ercan

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