Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 07:36:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > > http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/xt-cf-lite > > Not a solution for me. The XT clone is an *XT* clone. That's an IDE > CF Adaptor card, and the old XT clone doesn't have IDE slots. It > predates IDE. It's just its name - maybe not that accurate. According to creator it works with every XT -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:34 PM ZB wrote: > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:15:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > > > My old 32 bit desktop has a half height combo 3.5"/5.25" floppy drive. > > It was originally seen as drives A: and B:, and which was seen as > > which was controlled by a jumper setting on the drive. That went away > > in an emergency motherboard replacement. The new mobo would see only > > *one* of the drives as A:, and I had to pull the drive and change the > > jumper setting if I wanted to access the 5.25" drive instead of the > > 3.5" drive. > > Indeed it seems to be the same "feature". Yes. > > The new machine doesn't have floppy slots on the mobo, so while I have > > the drive I can't hook it up. I *do* have a USB 3.5" floppy drive > > which is seen as A: when connected and works fine, but I have no > > current way to access 5.25" diskettes. (I have some old stuff I'd > > *like* to access) > > Yes, I had similar problem a few years ago... finally I just prepared long > cables to connect big FDD as kind of "external drive". ;) Won't help here. What would I connect those long cables *to*? > > (For that matter, I still have my original XT clone on a shelf, with > > two 20*MB* Seagate MFM hard drives where the drives do not have > > onboard controllers and connect to a card on the mobo. I'd *love* the > > get the contents of the drives copied to a USB flash drive, but > > haven't found a way to do it.) > > A solution exists: > > http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/xt-cf-lite Not a solution for me. The XT clone is an *XT* clone. That's an IDE CF Adaptor card, and the old XT clone doesn't have IDE slots. It predates IDE. The old 32 bit desktop has them, but has other problems. I multi booted WinXP and Linux. The NTFS partition with Windows is damaged and I haven't been able to cure it. It *will* boot Linux, but I can only access the Linux partition and an IDE CF card won't work. Even if it could, I still wouldn't be able to access 5.25 floppy drives, and the stuff I want to get off the old MFM Seagate drives in the XT isn't on any of my preserved floppies. I have feelers out to folks who also have old hardware. I suspect I can solve the problem by throwing money at it, and shipping the Seagate drives to a contractor who can extract the contents and save it to a USB flash drive. Once that's done, the old XT clone can go away. (The XT clone hasn't even been booted in 20 years, and there are no security concerns about anything on the drives. The XT *will boot - I believe I still have a compatible keyboard and I can plug a monitor into the VGA port. But I had to have the case open and a fan blowing on it the last time I booted it because another card had overheating problems, and even if I boot it and copy data off to 5.25" floppies, I have no way to read them. It predates the Internet and I can't connect it to my local network, nor is there anything I can call via a modem and upload to.) I appreciate the pointers, but they don't address my issue. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 04:28:00PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > About your missing 10 kB: That might be extra driver > data, extra BIOS data, a virus, depends. Just telling > DOS to use them anyway will not be the solution. You > could use DEBUG to see what is in those 10 kB. I browsed memory using "debug" from 9000:d000 to 9000: - until 9000:d800 there is something that looks like FreeDOS' data, and higher than that zeros, a little bit (very seldom) "spoiled" by a few bytes here and there until 9000:dd20. Higher than that - only zeros. And no, it's not ROM; I was able to modify cells' contents. Maybe indeed something can be improved in memory management? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 07:19:46PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > > Hi again :-) > > >>> > >>> https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives > >> > >> It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support > >> more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? > >> The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. > > > > From what I see on the page > > http://www.asrock.com/mb/SiS/K7S8XE%20R3.0/?cat=Download=XP#BIOS > > the earliest BIOS update is from 2003/7/21, so around that "dangerous > > landmark", unfortunately > > ... > > >> So the menu actually DOES talk about TWO drives? > > > > Yes. > > Then there must be a way :-) > > > https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46=36942 > > Images are no longer available. > > > > https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/chinon-5-25-floppy-fz-506-jumpers.1942441/ > > > > https://nfggames.com/X68000/Documentation/Floppy%20Drives/Chinon/FZ06%20jumpers.pdf > > Thinking about the Drive Select jumpers: In 5.25inch > times, it was common to use cables which flipped a > few wires between both drives, so you had jumpered > BOTH drives to be "A:" but the one at the flipped > end of the cable would still get a different number. > > https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Njk0WDg5Mw==/z/AQoAAOSwYlRZLwkr/$_1.JPG?set_id=88500F > > https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HYsKSB4ML.jpg > > Here is a schema what the flipping does: > > http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images3/floppy_crossover_cable_wiring.jpg Yes, I understand that "flipping" cancels the need for different jumpering of two drives, but: - in my particular case "motor" is properly addressed; when I want to access drive selected as A:, its motor spins - and similarly trying to access B: - during my play with jumpers of course I was able to "spoil" the addressing to make both floppies spin (at the same time) during attempt to access drive A: - the problem is: it says "General failure" AFTER it spins B:drive's motor in supposed read attempt My conclusion is that drives are properly addressed, just data transfer from actual drive B: doesn't occur, probably -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
Hi again :-) >>> >>> https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives >> >> It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support >> more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? >> The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. > > From what I see on the page > http://www.asrock.com/mb/SiS/K7S8XE%20R3.0/?cat=Download=XP#BIOS > the earliest BIOS update is from 2003/7/21, so around that "dangerous > landmark", unfortunately ... >> So the menu actually DOES talk about TWO drives? > > Yes. Then there must be a way :-) > https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46=36942 Images are no longer available. > https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/chinon-5-25-floppy-fz-506-jumpers.1942441/ > https://nfggames.com/X68000/Documentation/Floppy%20Drives/Chinon/FZ06%20jumpers.pdf Thinking about the Drive Select jumpers: In 5.25inch times, it was common to use cables which flipped a few wires between both drives, so you had jumpered BOTH drives to be "A:" but the one at the flipped end of the cable would still get a different number. https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Njk0WDg5Mw==/z/AQoAAOSwYlRZLwkr/$_1.JPG?set_id=88500F https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HYsKSB4ML.jpg Here is a schema what the flipping does: http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images3/floppy_crossover_cable_wiring.jpg Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 05:04:10PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Any memory allocated BEFORE DOS starts will be shown as > "there is less than 640k of memory". For example extra > data used by BIOS extensions, a bootable MEMDISK, some > tools which load before DOS to provide LBA support on > computers with too old BIOS, certain viruses etc. > > If you want more UMB, just use EMM386 with the NOEMS > option to disable the 64k EMS 3.x page frame :-) You > will still be able to use EMS version 4 nevertheless. So I need to examine that part with debug. > DISPLAY needs more memory while loading than when > resident, so you could load it earlier when still > more UMB space is free. > > > > > https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives > > It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support > more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? > The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. >From what I see on the page >http://www.asrock.com/mb/SiS/K7S8XE%20R3.0/?cat=Download=XP#BIOS the earliest BIOS update is from 2003/7/21, so around that "dangerous landmark", unfortunately -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:15:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > My old 32 bit desktop has a half height combo 3.5"/5.25" floppy drive. > It was originally seen as drives A: and B:, and which was seen as > which was controlled by a jumper setting on the drive. That went away > in an emergency motherboard replacement. The new mobo would see only > *one* of the drives as A:, and I had to pull the drive and change the > jumper setting if I wanted to access the 5.25" drive instead of the > 3.5" drive. Indeed it seems to be the same "feature". > The new machine doesn't have floppy slots on the mobo, so while I have > the drive I can't hook it up. I *do* have a USB 3.5" floppy drive > which is seen as A: when connected and works fine, but I have no > current way to access 5.25" diskettes. (I have some old stuff I'd > *like* to access) Yes, I had similar problem a few years ago... finally I just prepared long cables to connect big FDD as kind of "external drive". ;) > (For that matter, I still have my original XT clone on a shelf, with > two 20*MB* Seagate MFM hard drives where the drives do not have > onboard controllers and connect to a card on the mobo. I'd *love* the > get the contents of the drives copied to a USB flash drive, but > haven't found a way to do it.) A solution exists: http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/xt-cf-lite I also have two old XT mobos, going to fit them with this "modern HDD" :) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 9:26 AM ZB wrote: > > completed lately my DOS machine with additional 1.2 MB 5,25" FDD for > occasional use of my old diskettes. So I have 3,5" FDD as drive A: and > 5,25" FDD as drive B: now. > > But there is a problem: I can only access the drive A: - never both drives > on a whim. So to access 5,25" drive I have to "swap drives" in BIOS setup > first, and only then I can read that bigger diskette. I'm willing to bet this is a motherboard/BIOS issue. My old 32 bit desktop has a half height combo 3.5"/5.25" floppy drive. It was originally seen as drives A: and B:, and which was seen as which was controlled by a jumper setting on the drive. That went away in an emergency motherboard replacement. The new mobo would see only *one* of the drives as A:, and I had to pull the drive and change the jumper setting if I wanted to access the 5.25" drive instead of the 3.5" drive. The new machine doesn't have floppy slots on the mobo, so while I have the drive I can't hook it up. I *do* have a USB 3.5" floppy drive which is seen as A: when connected and works fine, but I have no current way to access 5.25" diskettes. (I have some old stuff I'd *like* to access) (For that matter, I still have my original XT clone on a shelf, with two 20*MB* Seagate MFM hard drives where the drives do not have onboard controllers and connect to a card on the mobo. I'd *love* the get the contents of the drives copied to a USB flash drive, but haven't found a way to do it.) > Zbigniew __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
Hi! > You mean "extra driver data" not shown by "mem"? Or BIOS data within 640 KB? Any memory allocated BEFORE DOS starts will be shown as "there is less than 640k of memory". For example extra data used by BIOS extensions, a bootable MEMDISK, some tools which load before DOS to provide LBA support on computers with too old BIOS, certain viruses etc. If you want more UMB, just use EMM386 with the NOEMS option to disable the 64k EMS 3.x page frame :-) You will still be able to use EMS version 4 nevertheless. DISPLAY needs more memory while loading than when resident, so you could load it earlier when still more UMB space is free. > > https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 04:28:00PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > About your missing 10 kB: That might be extra driver > data, extra BIOS data, a virus, depends. Just telling > DOS to use them anyway will not be the solution. You > could use DEBUG to see what is in those 10 kB. You mean "extra driver data" not shown by "mem"? Or BIOS data within 640 KB? Also what I dislike in this mobo is modest amount of UMB. My old Soyo (ISA/VLB) offers about 140 KB of UMB, while this one just about 70 KB. Another thing is: that UMB area is somehow "mismanaged" here. For example: when I use EMS DISPLAY.SYS places his 12 KB into "conventional memory", although still almost 20 KB free in UMB is reported by "mem". Probably fragmented(?), or similar issue. > Your mainboard http://www.asrock.com/mb/SIS/K7S8XE/ > (AGP, AMD Socket 462) says "Floppy 1 connector" and > there are BIOS updates from 2004 for newer CPU and > some smaller fixes. > > https://download.asrock.com/Manual/K7S8XE.pdf > > does not show the submenu for floppy, so I wonder > whether you can configure the controller to use > two floppy disk drives at the same time there? Meanwhile I found description of probably the same issue: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives So unfortunately it seems it's the "feature" and nothing can be done :( -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
Hi! If you can only access the 1.2 or 1.44 MB drive, but not both at the same time, you may have to use a different cable or different jumper settings on the drives themselves. It is also possible that you have a mainboard which supports only one driver, but that would probably only happen with newer boards. About your missing 10 kB: That might be extra driver data, extra BIOS data, a virus, depends. Just telling DOS to use them anyway will not be the solution. You could use DEBUG to see what is in those 10 kB. Your mainboard http://www.asrock.com/mb/SIS/K7S8XE/ (AGP, AMD Socket 462) says "Floppy 1 connector" and there are BIOS updates from 2004 for newer CPU and some smaller fixes. https://download.asrock.com/Manual/K7S8XE.pdf does not show the submenu for floppy, so I wonder whether you can configure the controller to use two floppy disk drives at the same time there? Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Where is my 10 KB?
And another riddle: "mem /c/p" on the motherboard I use (Asrock K7S8XE) shows just 630K of "Conventional memory"; of course it has consequence in "Largest available program size". Is it possible to somehow recover that "lost" 10 KB? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] FDD issue
Hello, completed lately my DOS machine with additional 1.2 MB 5,25" FDD for occasional use of my old diskettes. So I have 3,5" FDD as drive A: and 5,25" FDD as drive B: now. But there is a problem: I can only access the drive A: - never both drives on a whim. So to access 5,25" drive I have to "swap drives" in BIOS setup first, and only then I can read that bigger diskette. Every access attempt to diskette in actual drive B: - regardless whichever drive I selected as B: at the moment, that bigger or smaller one - results in "General failure reading drive B". So (momentary) drive A: = always OK, drive B: = always "general failure". Anyone met such strange problem and perhaps knows the solution? 5,25" floppy is a Chinon FR-506, verified its jumper settings, seems OK. Tried to play with these jumpers anyway, no desired effect -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
