Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Jim Hall]

FYI: This conversation about Microsoft Windows 3.1 is off-topic for
the FreeDOS email list. From #2 in the list rules:

>   Remember, this group is about FreeDOS. General DOS topics are okay,
>   but try to keep it related to FreeDOS.
[..]
>   Keep posts on-topic. We set up this mailing list to discuss FreeDOS
>   issues.


Can we move this topic off the email list, please?


On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 11:30 AM Martin Iturbide
 wrote:
>
> Thanks guys for the replies.
>
> I'm taking note of the software you are listing.
>
> Maybe going over the basics some questions may be:
> - I want to have the basic Windows 3.1 VM with all fix packs available, what 
> should I install?  Win32s? Y2K patches? We discussed that a little bit, 
> thanks.
> - I want to have the ultimate Windows 3.1 gaming VM (or machine) , which 
> software I must have installed? Like Quicktime 2, Video for Windows, etc? Not 
> specifically listing games, only the required libraries/components.
> etc.
>
> Checking around the internet I found this sites remembering some software on 
> Windows 3.1 too:
> - http://www.gaby.de/win3x/esoft.htm
>
> Regards
>


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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Martin Iturbide]

Thanks guys for the replies.

I'm taking note of the software you are listing.

Maybe going over the basics some questions may be:
- I want to have the basic Windows 3.1 VM with all fix packs available,
what should I install?  Win32s? Y2K patches? We discussed that a little
bit, thanks.
- I want to have the ultimate Windows 3.1 gaming VM (or machine) , which
software I must have installed? Like Quicktime 2, Video for Windows, etc?
Not specifically listing games, only the required libraries/components.
etc.

Checking around the internet I found this sites remembering some software
on Windows 3.1 too:
- http://www.gaby.de/win3x/esoft.htm

Regards

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 8:34 PM Deposite Pirate 
wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 10:38:29 -0700
> Ralf Quint  wrote:
>
> > On 6/9/2022 8:55 AM, Roderick Klein wrote:
> > All references and possible downloads for anything DOS and Windows <=
> > 3.11 has been removed from Microsoft's web site(s) at least 10 years
> > ago. By that time, pretty much all application and driver support
> > from 3rd parties has evaporated as well.
>
> There is a full mirror torrent of ftp.microsoft.com on archive.org
> before it disappeared. You'll find all the DOS, Windows 3.x and early
> Windows 95 stuff distributed by m$ on there, including quite a few
> esoteric drivers (I've seen browsing through it).
>
> The problem with DOS based Windows releases in my experience is that
> they are extremely crash prone because of their hackish engineering to
> be polite. And the more you pile up "fixes" and "add-ons" (including
> those provided by m$ itself), the less they will work without crashing
> every five minutes. To have a decent experience with any of these you're
> going to have to carefully select the hardware you're going to use them
> with, to have access to decently written drivers (which was far from
> always being the case). And you're going to want to avoid trying to
> install every fix available because those fixes were designed to be
> installed on an "as needed" basis and were not part of a stream of
> "windows updates" to be installed everywhere.
>
> Better yet, if you like the Windows 3.x shell, go with NT 3.51. If you
> like the Windows 95 shell, go with NT 4.0. It will save you a lot of
> frustration.
>
> --
> GPG: C90CAB7122AC1231
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>


-- 
Martín Itúrbide
http://www.os2world.com
mar...@os2world.com
martiniturb...@gmail.com
Quito - Ecuador
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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Deposite Pirate]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 10:38:29 -0700
Ralf Quint  wrote:

> On 6/9/2022 8:55 AM, Roderick Klein wrote:
> All references and possible downloads for anything DOS and Windows <= 
> 3.11 has been removed from Microsoft's web site(s) at least 10 years 
> ago. By that time, pretty much all application and driver support
> from 3rd parties has evaporated as well.

There is a full mirror torrent of ftp.microsoft.com on archive.org
before it disappeared. You'll find all the DOS, Windows 3.x and early
Windows 95 stuff distributed by m$ on there, including quite a few
esoteric drivers (I've seen browsing through it).

The problem with DOS based Windows releases in my experience is that
they are extremely crash prone because of their hackish engineering to
be polite. And the more you pile up "fixes" and "add-ons" (including
those provided by m$ itself), the less they will work without crashing
every five minutes. To have a decent experience with any of these you're
going to have to carefully select the hardware you're going to use them
with, to have access to decently written drivers (which was far from
always being the case). And you're going to want to avoid trying to
install every fix available because those fixes were designed to be
installed on an "as needed" basis and were not part of a stream of
"windows updates" to be installed everywhere.

Better yet, if you like the Windows 3.x shell, go with NT 3.51. If you
like the Windows 95 shell, go with NT 4.0. It will save you a lot of
frustration.

-- 
GPG: C90CAB7122AC1231


pgpXzDck531ip.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Aitor Santamaría]

My small contribution here: I've always found cool (but not tried myself)
the Calmira project: make your Windows 3.X look like Windows 9X, or even
WinXP:

http://www.calmira.de/

Have fun,
Aitor


On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 at 16:04, Martin Iturbide 
wrote:

> Hello
>
> I was wondering if you know some links, articles, hints about all the
> software and fixes that can be installed on Windows 3.1 .Like if someone
> did the exercise on how he will tune/pimp his own Windows 3.1 today.
>
> There are many articles on how to install Windows 3.1 plain and check what
> that OS offered at that time, but I can not find someone that recommends
> what patches and software to install today on it, or what was the awesome
> software for Windows 3.1 that we used to have in the past. Like if someone
> will try to bring the 16bit Windows to the max.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Martín Itúrbide
> http://www.os2world.com
> mar...@os2world.com
> martiniturb...@gmail.com
> Quito - Ecuador
> ___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Andrew Robins]

Hi Martin,
I don't have the expertise as others already voicing their tips, but I would 
like to give a big shout-out to *Plug-In for Windows* 2.60, produced by the 
brave fellows at Plannet Crafters, Inc, back in the 90's. I loved that software 
and was a happy supporter despite knowing they were soon to be overwhelmed by 
the Windows98 juggernaut. Brilliant set of bling tools (e.g., loads of 
right-click options on the empty desktop), I was able to skip Win95 entirely 
with this little beauty. 
Still have my 486 DX in storage, awaiting resurrection - such was the joy that 
"Plug-In" brought me.

Available on vetusware I understand - but I have kept my original copies and 
registration codes etc... how sad is that?
:)
 
Andrew Robins


On Fri, Jun 10, 2022, at 12:02 AM, Martin Iturbide wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I was wondering if you know some links, articles, hints about all the 
> software and fixes that can be installed on Windows 3.1 .Like if someone did 
> the exercise on how he will tune/pimp his own Windows 3.1 today.
> 
> There are many articles on how to install Windows 3.1 plain and check what 
> that OS offered at that time, but I can not find someone that recommends what 
> patches and software to install today on it, or what was the awesome software 
> for Windows 3.1 that we used to have in the past. Like if someone will try to 
> bring the 16bit Windows to the max.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Regards
> 
> -- 
> Martín Itúrbide
> 
> http://www.os2world.com
> mar...@os2world.com
> martiniturb...@gmail.com
> Quito - Ecuador
> 
> ___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 10:05 AM Martin Iturbide
 wrote:
> I was wondering if you know some links, articles, hints about all the 
> software and fixes that can be installed on Windows 3.1 .Like if someone did 
> the exercise on how he will tune/pimp his own Windows 3.1 today.

I ran Windows for Workgroups, 3.11. a sort of corporate flavor of
Windows 3.1, for some time.  I don't recall security patches for it as
we have now.

The thing to remember is that Win 3.1 was a 16 bit multitasking shell.
running on top of single tasking DOS. Windows serialized
communications with the file system so DOS could be used.

I had a Unix machine at home before I got a PC running DOS. DOS from
version 2 bprrowed concepts from Unix, like tree structured
directories, pipes, and I/O redirection, but implemented them
differently due to DOS limitations,

When I got a PC, I wanted it to look and act as much like Unix as
possible.  The best solution proved to be a commercial product called
the MKS Toolkit.  It was created by Mortice Kern Systems, a consulting
engineering firm in Canada, They wrote it for internal use, but when
they felt it was sufficiently developed, they released it as a
product.  It became "the tail that wagged the dog", and their primary
business.

The biggest enticement for me was a complete implementation of the
Ubix Korn shell, with everything save asynchronous background
processes (because DOS didn't *have* those.)  It also had a full
implementation of the Vi editor.

Installed in fullest Unix compatibilty mode, the Toolkit's INIT,EXE
program replaced COMMAND.COM as the boot shell.  Turn on the PC, and
when booting completed, you saw a screen with a Login: prompt.  Enter
a userid and optional password.  INIT called LOGIN, which looked in a
Unix compatible /etc/passwd file for it.  If it found a match, it
changed to whatever was defined as that ID's home directory, and ran
whatever was defined as its shell.

I had IDs that ran COMMAND.COM, 4DOS, the Toolkit Korn shell. and
DesqView.  Exit them, and you returned to INIT, which presented a
Login screen.  I could switch environments without rebooting.  Just
log off and back on again.

The XT clone had a meg of additional memory courtesy of an AST 6-Pak
card, with 512K allocated to a RAMdisk and 256K to a dick cache.
Drivers for those and my mouse were loaded in CONFIG.SYS and available
in all environments.

When I was logged into the Korn shell, you had to dig to discover you
*weren't* on a real Unix machine.

When I migrated to a 386 machine capable of running Win 3.1, I kept
the setup, and used it to expand what I might do with Windows.  When
you booted into Win 3.1, by default Program Manager was your GUI.  But
it didn't have to be.  There were an assortment of shareware and
freeware Program Manager replacements you could substitute. Which
Windows used was defined by an entry in the SYSTEM.INI file.

I could shift between Windows GUIs the same way I shifted DOS
environments.  I had IDs defined to use custom versions of SYSTEM.INI.
When I logged into one of them, the custom version got copied over the
SYSTEM.INI file Windows read when it invoked, and it came up usimg the
GUI the ID specified.  Exit Windows, and I was back in INIT and could
restart it using  different GUI without rebooting (or not run Windows
at all, and log  into a DOS session.)

The replacement GUI I wound up normally using was Workplace Shell for
Windows, a freeware product from an IBM developer that implemented as
much of the OS/2 Workplace ahell as possible under Win 3.1.  Among
other things, it eliminated Program Manager imposed limitations on the
number of Program Groups, and permitted icons on the desktop.
Transition to Win95 when that appeared was simplified because I
already had a lot of th new capabilities Win95 offered.

Lacking something like the Toolkit to make switching GUIs easy, you
can still play with the replacement GUIs.   You'll just have to boot
to DOS and diddle the SYSTEM.INI file with a text editor.  *Finding*
them may be a challenge,
__
Dennis


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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/9/2022 8:55 AM, Roderick Klein wrote:

He Martin,

Small world. I have also been looking for websites on that topic.
I have also not been able to find any information for fixes for 
Windows 3.1 Microsoft released.


I do not know if Microsoft released patched for Windows 3.1 and Y2k 
compability. I think IBM for WIN/OS2 did. 


Well, you all are chasing unicorns here.

Yes, Microsoft did release a Y2K patch for Windows 3.1x. In 1997. But...

Microsoft has set the end of support for Windows 3.1x for December 31st, 
2001. That is 21 years ago. Support for a special (non-retail) embedded 
version of Windows for Workgroups 3.11 ended 2008, still 13 years ago.


All references and possible downloads for anything DOS and Windows <= 
3.11 has been removed from Microsoft's web site(s) at least 10 years 
ago. By that time, pretty much all application and driver support from 
3rd parties has evaporated as well.


There might be bits and pieces around the interwebs still, like old 
SimTel and/or Garbo mirrors. The before mentioned Y2K patch 
(practically, a new Windows File Manager) for example can be found at 
VetusWare

https://vetusware.com/download/Win3.13.11%20File%20Manager%20Y2K%20update/?id=4446

If someone seriously wants to dabble in Windows 3.1x, you need 
definitely hone your Google-Fu skills. As I said, you're chasing 
unicorns... ;-)


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Roderick Klein]

He Martin,

Small world. I have also been looking for websites on that topic.
I have also not been able to find any information for fixes for Windows 
3.1 Microsoft released.


I do not know if Microsoft released patched for Windows 3.1 and Y2k 
compability. I think IBM for WIN/OS2 did.


Roderick

On  9-06-22 16:02, Martin Iturbide wrote:

Hello

I was wondering if you know some links, articles, hints about all the
software and fixes that can be installed on Windows 3.1 .Like if someone
did the exercise on how he will tune/pimp his own Windows 3.1 today.

There are many articles on how to install Windows 3.1 plain and check
what that OS offered at that time, but I can not find someone that
recommends what patches and software to install today on it, or what was
the awesome software for Windows 3.1 that we used to have in the past.
Like if someone will try to bring the 16bit Windows to the max.

Any ideas?

Regards

--
Martín Itúrbide
http://www.os2world.com
mar...@os2world.com 
martiniturb...@gmail.com 
Quito - Ecuador




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[Freedos-user] Super Charging Windows 3.1 ?

[Martin Iturbide]

Hello

I was wondering if you know some links, articles, hints about all the
software and fixes that can be installed on Windows 3.1 .Like if someone
did the exercise on how he will tune/pimp his own Windows 3.1 today.

There are many articles on how to install Windows 3.1 plain and check what
that OS offered at that time, but I can not find someone that recommends
what patches and software to install today on it, or what was the awesome
software for Windows 3.1 that we used to have in the past. Like if someone
will try to bring the 16bit Windows to the max.

Any ideas?

Regards

-- 
Martín Itúrbide
http://www.os2world.com
mar...@os2world.com
martiniturb...@gmail.com
Quito - Ecuador
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