Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Thomas Mueller 
From: "Thomas Mueller" 

> > Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):...
> >> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD
> >> and ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to
> >> that in the PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did
> > I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT
> > support and 64-bit support.
> It runs on 64-bit CPUs as if on 32. AFAIK, there are no plans for foreseeable
> future for a 64-bit kernel.

> I have no idea about GPT support. Does any 32-bit OS support GPT?

> There are eCS mailing lists for those interested in clues to more of what's
> going on.

> ecs-techni...@yahoogroups.com
> ecomstat...@yahoogroups.com

> > I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an
> > Iomega Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it
> > difficult to find the proper drive letters.

> That kind of stuff is what using the Dani drivers usually alleviated.

I don't think Dani drivers existed when I installed OS/2 Warp 4 upgrade from
OS/2 Warp 3.

>From Wikipedia, eComStation does not support GPT.

But it is possible for a 32-bit OS.  Examples are Haiku, FreeBSD i386 and
NetBSD i386.

How busy are those eCS lists on Yahoogroups?

from Gregg Eshelman:

> [-- Attachment #1 --]
> [-- Type: multipart/alternative, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 3.0K --]
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="=_Part_3887213_246094375.1493105714797"
> Content-Length: 3052

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Have you ever installed OS/2 Warp 3 Upgrade from floppies? I did, on a
Packard Bell 486 SX system with a 63 Mhz Pentium Overdrive. For some reason
once it got to the GUI stage and I was feeding it disk after disk, I'd have to
keep
> the mouse in constant motion while it was reading a disk or it'd freeze.
> What was the upgrade from? OS/2 2.something, also on floppies. I picked up
both really cheap somewhere, and after going through the process of installing
2.x then the Warp 3 upgrade I found out why it was cheap. ;)
> I also found out that tinkering with its massive config.sys file in any way
was an easy way to cause big problems.

I can no longer remember if OS/2 Warp 3 upgrade was all from floppies, or if is
was on a CD but with three kicker/boot floppies to start from.  Upgrade was
from OS/2 2.11 with fixpacks.

I could modify or add a few lines in the config.sys but not the whole thing.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Felix Miata 
From: Felix Miata 

dmccunney composed on 2017-04-25 08:53 (UTC-0400):

> Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):
>> I was never able to figure out how to make any of
>> the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
>> column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

> the few holdouts running DOS apps don't need OS/2 to do it.

How do you reconcile what I wrote, which you failed to quote in response to my
post, with what you wrote? How do you get *any* DOS emulator besides OS/2 to
run
the proprietary native SVGA text modes required to run QPro at 132 columns,
like
I do 24/7 with eCS?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: less than infinite (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Felix Miata 
From: Felix Miata 

Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 06:56 (UTC):

> Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):...
>> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD
>> and ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to
>> that in the PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did
> I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT
> support and 64-bit support.
It runs on 64-bit CPUs as if on 32. AFAIK, there are no plans for foreseeable
future for a 64-bit kernel.

I have no idea about GPT support. Does any 32-bit OS support GPT?

There are eCS mailing lists for those interested in clues to more of what's
going on.

ecs-techni...@yahoogroups.com
ecomstat...@yahoogroups.com

> I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an
> Iomega Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it
> difficult to find the proper drive letters.

That kind of stuff is what using the Dani drivers usually alleviated.

> DOS and OS/2 FDISK led me to believe, erroneously, that a hard drive could
> have only one primary partition, in addition to logical partitions.

> Linux fdisk taught me better.

I use none of the native partitioners since somewhere around 1999. DFSee, while
not free, avoids potential incompatibilities, since it writes identical tables
and legacy compatible MBR code whether used booted to DOS, OS/2, Windows, Linux
or Mac.
http://www.dfsee.com/
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: less than infinite (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Thomas Mueller 
From: "Thomas Mueller" 

> Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 02:07 (UTC):

> > I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2
crash
> > in the single-digit days of April 2001.

> > OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run
automatically,
> > ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD
and
> ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to that in
the
> PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did.

> > I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other
> > floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

> > OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux
> > starter floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

> I never liked the OS/2, Warp or eCS installers, though the CD versions were
and
> are far less frustrating. I eventually found installation infrequently
> necessary. Once the SDD/Snap video drivers arrived, I found migrating a
working
> disk or a clone thereof from one PC to another to be much easier. I stuck to
> always having OS/2 on an F: partition both before and after LVM came on the
> scene, only installing to any other letter on a test basis.

> > I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

> > I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or
Linux
> > with DOSBox.

> > Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD
> > now seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

> > I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it
> > bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.
> I keep several PCs competent to run the eCS version I use simply by
transferring
> a HD with eCS on F: into it. I was never able to figure out how to make any
of
> the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
> column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

> eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
> which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS
is
> useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than
DOS
> objective of OS/2 really shines.

> eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed
to
> happen today or yesterday:

> https://www.arcanoae.com/

> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT
support and 64-bit support.

It looks like any one of NetBSD, FreeBSD and Linux would do better, and easier
to get around in.

I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an Iomega
Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it difficult
to find the proper drive letters.

I used 3D (.WQ2) with Quattro Pro.  What if you have data for each month of the
year?  Third dimension is 12 deep.

There is also open-source spreadsheet Teapot at
https://www.syntax-k.de/projekte/teapot/

Latest version is 2.3.0 (2012-02-06).

DOS and OS/2 FDISK led me to believe, erroneously, that a hard drive could have
only one primary partition, in addition to logical partitions.

Linux fdisk taught me better.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney 
From: dmccunney 


On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:

> eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
> which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS
is
> useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than
DOS
> objective of OS/2 really shines.
>
> eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed
to
> happen today or yesterday:
>
> https://www.arcanoae.com/

*sigh*

> rCaable to run OS/2, Windows 3.1, and DOS applications

Only existing OS/2 users run OS/2 apps, I don't think *anyone* runs
Win 3.1 apps, and the few holdouts running DOS apps don't need OS/2 to
do it.

> rCaable to run ported Linux applications

And the key will be which Linux apps get ported, and how hard a job
that will be.

This may well be a decent followup to eComStation for the OS/2
community, but I don't see it gaining converts elsewhere.  It needs to
either support Linux apps "native", or run Win32 apps, or both.  Lack
of 64 bit support is also a major minus.

Tell me why anyone who *isn't* already an OS/2 user might get this?
__
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Mikkel C. Simonsen 
From: "Mikkel C. Simonsen" 


dmccunney wrote:
> Only existing OS/2 users run OS/2 apps, I don't think *anyone* runs
> Win 3.1 apps,

I do, so there's at least one... PageMaker, CorelDRAW! and Photoshop is
in regular use. And also more spezialised stuff like Keil -|Vision and
some filter design tools.

> Tell me why anyone who *isn't* already an OS/2 user might get this?

Probably none - and so what?

Best regards,

Mikkel


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Thomas Mueller 
From: "Thomas Mueller" 

from dmccunney:

> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):

> > Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> > Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> > whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).

> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2 crash in
the single-digit days of April 2001.

OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run automatically,
ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other
floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux starter
floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or Linux
with DOSBox.

Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD now
seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it
bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-05-06 Thread Felix Miata 
From: Felix Miata 

Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 02:07 (UTC):

> I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2 crash
> in the single-digit days of April 2001.

> OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run automatically,
> ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD and
ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to that in the
PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did.

> I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other
> floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

> OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux
> starter floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

I never liked the OS/2, Warp or eCS installers, though the CD versions were and
are far less frustrating. I eventually found installation infrequently
necessary. Once the SDD/Snap video drivers arrived, I found migrating a working
disk or a clone thereof from one PC to another to be much easier. I stuck to
always having OS/2 on an F: partition both before and after LVM came on the
scene, only installing to any other letter on a test basis.

> I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

> I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or Linux
> with DOSBox.

> Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD
> now seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

> I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it
> bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.
I keep several PCs competent to run the eCS version I use simply by
transferring
a HD with eCS on F: into it. I was never able to figure out how to make any of
the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS is
useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than
DOS
objective of OS/2 really shines.

eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed
to
happen today or yesterday:

https://www.arcanoae.com/
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: less than infinite (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney 
From: dmccunney 

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:
> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):
>
>> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
>> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
>> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>
> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).

Okay, thanks.  That's what I more or less remembered.

Corel acquired the software from Novell.  Novell under Ray Noorda was
on an acquisitions binge, and acquired Word Perfect, Quattro Pro and
other stuff.  They appeared to be trying to compete with Microsoft
across the board, but never really put the pieces together in a
coherent whole.  Noorda got pushed out by the board, and Novell
retreated from the applications market.
__
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner 
From: Dale E Sterner 

Someone else who likes Qpro - ain't it great.


cheers
DS


On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:16:10 -0400 Felix Miata 
writes:
> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):
>
> > Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.
> Remember
> > Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> > whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>
> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still
> keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58fe17486f01c17483f9fst04duc

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-05-06 Thread Felix Miata 
From: Felix Miata 

dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):

> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: less than infinite (276:10/901)
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3
 *  Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Thomas Mueller 
> > Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):...
> >> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD
> >> and ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to
> >> that in the PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did
> > I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT
> > support and 64-bit support.
> It runs on 64-bit CPUs as if on 32. AFAIK, there are no plans for foreseeable
> future for a 64-bit kernel.

> I have no idea about GPT support. Does any 32-bit OS support GPT?

> There are eCS mailing lists for those interested in clues to more of what's
> going on.

> ecs-techni...@yahoogroups.com
> ecomstat...@yahoogroups.com

> > I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an
> > Iomega Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it
> > difficult to find the proper drive letters.

> That kind of stuff is what using the Dani drivers usually alleviated.

I don't think Dani drivers existed when I installed OS/2 Warp 4 upgrade from 
OS/2 Warp 3.

>From Wikipedia, eComStation does not support GPT.

But it is possible for a 32-bit OS.  Examples are Haiku, FreeBSD i386 and 
NetBSD i386.

How busy are those eCS lists on Yahoogroups?

from Gregg Eshelman:

> [-- Attachment #1 --]
> [-- Type: multipart/alternative, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 3.0K --]
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="=_Part_3887213_246094375.1493105714797"
> Content-Length: 3052

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Have you ever installed OS/2 Warp 3 Upgrade from floppies? I did, on a 
> Packard Bell 486 SX system with a 63 Mhz Pentium Overdrive. For some reason 
> once it got to the GUI stage and I was feeding it disk after disk, I'd have 
> to keep
> the mouse in constant motion while it was reading a disk or it'd freeze.
> What was the upgrade from? OS/2 2.something, also on floppies. I picked up 
> both really cheap somewhere, and after going through the process of 
> installing 2.x then the Warp 3 upgrade I found out why it was cheap. ;)
> I also found out that tinkering with its massive config.sys file in any way 
> was an easy way to cause big problems.

I can no longer remember if OS/2 Warp 3 upgrade was all from floppies, or if is 
was on a CD but with three kicker/boot floppies to start from.  Upgrade was 
from OS/2 2.11 with fixpacks.

I could modify or add a few lines in the config.sys but not the whole thing.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Felix Miata 
dmccunney composed on 2017-04-25 08:53 (UTC-0400):

> Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):
>> I was never able to figure out how to make any of
>> the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
>> column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

> the few holdouts running DOS apps don't need OS/2 to do it.

How do you reconcile what I wrote, which you failed to quote in response to my
post, with what you wrote? How do you get *any* DOS emulator besides OS/2 to run
the proprietary native SVGA text modes required to run QPro at 132 columns, like
I do 24/7 with eCS?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread dmccunney 
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Mikkel C. Simonsen  wrote:
> dmccunney wrote:

>> Only existing OS/2 users run OS/2 apps, I don't think *anyone* runs
>> Win 3.1 apps,
>
> I do, so there's at least one... PageMaker, CorelDRAW! and Photoshop is
> in regular use. And also more spezialised stuff like Keil µVision and
> some filter design tools.

Good heavens.  I sit corrected.  (I'd forgotten about the Win 3.X
version of PageMaker, but do vaguely recall CorelDRAW! and Photoshop
for the platform.)

>> Tell me why anyone who *isn't* already an OS/2 user might get this?
>
> Probably none - and so what?

As long as nobody *expects* it to penetrate beyond the existing OS/2
market, agreed.  The folks who *can* use it will probably be happy,
and I'm pleased to see them still supported.

> Best regards,
> Mikkel
__
Dennis

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Mikkel C. Simonsen 
dmccunney wrote:
> Only existing OS/2 users run OS/2 apps, I don't think *anyone* runs
> Win 3.1 apps,

I do, so there's at least one... PageMaker, CorelDRAW! and Photoshop is 
in regular use. And also more spezialised stuff like Keil µVision and 
some filter design tools.

> Tell me why anyone who *isn't* already an OS/2 user might get this?

Probably none - and so what?

Best regards,

Mikkel


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread dmccunney 
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:

> eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
> which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS is
> useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than 
> DOS
> objective of OS/2 really shines.
>
> eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed 
> to
> happen today or yesterday:
>
> https://www.arcanoae.com/

*sigh*

> …able to run OS/2, Windows 3.1, and DOS applications

Only existing OS/2 users run OS/2 apps, I don't think *anyone* runs
Win 3.1 apps, and the few holdouts running DOS apps don't need OS/2 to
do it.

> …able to run ported Linux applications

And the key will be which Linux apps get ported, and how hard a job
that will be.

This may well be a decent followup to eComStation for the OS/2
community, but I don't see it gaining converts elsewhere.  It needs to
either support Linux apps "native", or run Win32 apps, or both.  Lack
of 64 bit support is also a major minus.

Tell me why anyone who *isn't* already an OS/2 user might get this?
__
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Felix Miata 
Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 06:56 (UTC):

> I used 3D (.WQ2) with Quattro Pro.  What if you have data for each month of 
> the year?  Third dimension is 12 deep.

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/freedos-user/thread/2173a1b7-7f02-da55-6568-108380912f09%40earthlink.net/#msg35805095
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Felix Miata 
Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 06:56 (UTC):

> Felix Miata composed on 2017-04-24 23:07 (UTC-0400):...
>> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD
>> and ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to
>> that in the PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did
> I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT
> support and 64-bit support.
It runs on 64-bit CPUs as if on 32. AFAIK, there are no plans for foreseeable
future for a 64-bit kernel.

I have no idea about GPT support. Does any 32-bit OS support GPT?

There are eCS mailing lists for those interested in clues to more of what's
going on.

ecs-techni...@yahoogroups.com
ecomstat...@yahoogroups.com

> I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an
> Iomega Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it
> difficult to find the proper drive letters.

That kind of stuff is what using the Dani drivers usually alleviated.

> DOS and OS/2 FDISK led me to believe, erroneously, that a hard drive could
> have only one primary partition, in addition to logical partitions.

> Linux fdisk taught me better.

I use none of the native partitioners since somewhere around 1999. DFSee, while
not free, avoids potential incompatibilities, since it writes identical tables
and legacy compatible MBR code whether used booted to DOS, OS/2, Windows, Linux
or Mac.
http://www.dfsee.com/
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-25 Thread Thomas Mueller 
> Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 02:07 (UTC):

> > I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2 crash
> > in the single-digit days of April 2001.

> > OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run automatically,
> > ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

> OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD and
> ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to that in 
> the
> PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did.

> > I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other
> > floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

> > OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux
> > starter floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

> I never liked the OS/2, Warp or eCS installers, though the CD versions were 
> and
> are far less frustrating. I eventually found installation infrequently
> necessary. Once the SDD/Snap video drivers arrived, I found migrating a 
> working
> disk or a clone thereof from one PC to another to be much easier. I stuck to
> always having OS/2 on an F: partition both before and after LVM came on the
> scene, only installing to any other letter on a test basis.

> > I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

> > I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or 
> > Linux
> > with DOSBox.

> > Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD
> > now seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

> > I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it
> > bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.
> I keep several PCs competent to run the eCS version I use simply by 
> transferring
> a HD with eCS on F: into it. I was never able to figure out how to make any of
> the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
> column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

> eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
> which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS is
> useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than 
> DOS
> objective of OS/2 really shines.

> eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed 
> to
> happen today or yesterday:

> https://www.arcanoae.com/

> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

I went to www.arcanoae.com, but some information was missing, such as GPT 
support and 64-bit support.

It looks like any one of NetBSD, FreeBSD and Linux would do better, and easier 
to get around in.

I had difficulties with the OS/2 installers.  In the case of Warp 4, an Iomega 
Zip drive showed with two different, consecutive letters, making it difficult 
to find the proper drive letters.

I used 3D (.WQ2) with Quattro Pro.  What if you have data for each month of the 
year?  Third dimension is 12 deep.

There is also open-source spreadsheet Teapot at
https://www.syntax-k.de/projekte/teapot/

Latest version is 2.3.0 (2012-02-06).

DOS and OS/2 FDISK led me to believe, erroneously, that a hard drive could have 
only one primary partition, in addition to logical partitions.

Linux fdisk taught me better.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-24 Thread Felix Miata 
Thomas Mueller composed on 2017-04-25 02:07 (UTC):

> I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2 crash
> in the single-digit days of April 2001.

> OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run automatically,
> ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

OS/2 needed the upgrade to MCP that eCS incorporated, and Dani's 506, DASD and
ATAPI drivers to run on hardware that wasn't perfectly sync'd up to that in the
PC hardware IBM was selling, or even when it did.

> I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other
> floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

> OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux
> starter floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

I never liked the OS/2, Warp or eCS installers, though the CD versions were and
are far less frustrating. I eventually found installation infrequently
necessary. Once the SDD/Snap video drivers arrived, I found migrating a working
disk or a clone thereof from one PC to another to be much easier. I stuck to
always having OS/2 on an F: partition both before and after LVM came on the
scene, only installing to any other letter on a test basis.

> I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

> I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or Linux
> with DOSBox.

> Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD
> now seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

> I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it
> bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.
I keep several PCs competent to run the eCS version I use simply by transferring
a HD with eCS on F: into it. I was never able to figure out how to make any of
the non-OS/2 DOS emulators do SVGA text modes, required to produce the 132
column text modes that make QPro so valuable to me.

eCS works much better than DesqView and QEMM ever did with "large" file I/O,
which is truly dismal in any DOS I ever seriously tried. And of course, eCS is
useful for other things. QPro is one of those apps where the better DOS than DOS
objective of OS/2 really shines.

eCS has a replacement "Blue Lion" coming online soon. Final beta was supposed to
happen today or yesterday:

https://www.arcanoae.com/
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases

2017-04-24 Thread Thomas Mueller 
from dmccunney:

> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):

> > Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> > Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> > whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).

> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

I ran Quattro Pro through 5 in OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 until that final OS/2 crash in 
the single-digit days of April 2001.

OS/2 froze, did not dismount cleanly.  On reboot, CHKDSK, run automatically, 
ran amok and trashed my hard-disk data.

I was never again able to boot OS/2 again even from installation or other 
floppies: trap 000c or 000e.

OS/2 must have panicked at the state of the hard drive(s), while Linux starter 
floppy booted, and Linux fdisk was runnable.

I used DR-DOS 7.03 for some years.

I can still run Quattro Pro 5 for DOS in FreeDOS, or FreeBSD, NetBSD or Linux 
with DOSBox.

Now I see how eComStation has greatly fallen behind, and FreeBSD and NetBSD now 
seem to have much better hardware support than eComStation.

I can even rsync a FreeBSD or NetBSD installation to USB stick and make it 
bootable.  I don't think you can do that with eComStation.

Tom


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner 
Someone else who likes Qpro - ain't it great.


cheers
DS


On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:16:10 -0400 Felix Miata 
writes:
> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):
> 
> > Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  
> Remember
> > Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> > whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
> 
> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still 
> keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).
> -- 
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
> 
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> 
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58fe17486f01c17483f9fst04duc

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-04-23 Thread dmccunney 
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:
> dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):
>
>> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
>> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
>> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>
> QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
> running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).

Okay, thanks.  That's what I more or less remembered.

Corel acquired the software from Novell.  Novell under Ray Noorda was
on an acquisitions binge, and acquired Word Perfect, Quattro Pro and
other stuff.  They appeared to be trying to compete with Microsoft
across the board, but never really put the pieces together in a
coherent whole.  Noorda got pushed out by the board, and Novell
retreated from the applications market.
__
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Quattro Pro releases (was: Corel dos...)

2017-04-23 Thread Felix Miata 
dmccunney composed on 2017-04-23 17:52 (UTC-0400):

> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

QPro 5.5 was released by Novell. I still have its manuals, and still keep 5.6
running 24/7 (in OS/2 in its eComStation incarnation).
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user