Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
Great question and great list! The difficulty of the formal treatments is one the things that jumps out as something to contend with in discussing them. Simplifying without confusing this level of work is very hard to do. I recently found Rob Ulanowicz's Growth and Development (1986), suggested by Stephen Guerin, to be the first text anywhere I've found that attempts to deal with how internal causation develops. Rob does not approach the subject from a view of autonomous agents following rules (a different meaning of autonomy), but from generalizing eco-system dynamics. It's that he's generalizing on observations, starting very simple, formalizing one careful piece at a time, and checking to see what's in the remainder, etc. Does anyone know any other approaches that try to do that (generalizing on the whole rather than building up from the parts) in a practical way? It doesn't seem to be the popular path. I also think knowledge starts with informal notions and then develops, so with a field that is breaking new ground you'd expect some 'informality'. The issues of the early Medieval thinkers that gave birth to science but can't be found anywhere in it now are one example. Every system goes through an historically necessary succession of organizational steps which it abandons, I think. Science has progressed through informal-to-formal stages with various things. With the subject of complex systems there's still some question as to whether the knowledge base is ready to do that, though. Isn't it? It generally starts with 'observation', using a methodology of some kind. One thing curious about observation is that its main purpose is to grope around outside one's formalisms to see what else there might be incorporate. Anyway, that's how I see formality in science, something you do over and over, continually going back to the source for new material. The question I can't answer about formalism in complexity theory is what part of the world has been included in the formality, and what's been left out. Phil Henshaw .·´ ¯ `·. ~~~ 680 Ft. Washington Ave NY NY 10040 tel: 212-795-4844 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] explorations: www.synapse9.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:12 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity;Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro To kick off our discussions of Formalisms In Complexity, I thought I'd add this to the mix. -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org -- The Six Desert Island Books On Complexity (In no particular order) This list began after several conversations on FRIAM about formalism, and its lack, in Complexity. These prompted me to see just what *was* available. These books all cover part of our Science with sufficient formalism. I've not read all of any of them, they are more like references for me, but they are focused on areas important to be rigorous about within our Science, if it is to be one. 1 - Bar-Yam: Dynamics of Complex Systems http://tinyurl.com/qumgf I put this first because it stands in for a Complexity Textbook. Surprisingly, there are no such texts that I've been able to find. Bar-Yam does a great job of looking at the areas deemed complex in the early 1990's when the book was written. 2 - Newman, Barabasi, Watts: The Structure and Dynamics of Networks http://tinyurl.com/jh3u8 This is the next best thing to a textbook, a series of readings, with a good introduction, in an area within complexity. There are others books of readings, the SFI redbooks, for example. This is particularly of interest to us due to the fast rise of graph theory within modeling. 3 - MacKay: Information Theory, Inference, and Learning Algorithms http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/mackay/ http://tinyurl.com/e5len Robert Holmes led us to this delightful book when he led a couple of WedTech meetings on the Monte Carlo techniques (Ch 29). This book is not only exceptional for its breadth, but also for its author putting the entire book online for free use! He also includes software examples using open source tools and actively maintains errata on his website. 4 - Gintis: Game Theory Evolving http://tinyurl.com/ew3yr Many of us use Agent Based Modeling for investigating problems. The agents have behavior and evolve in time. This book is a bit wacky in its approach, disdaining dogmatic and classical approaches, in order to focus on the import of evolution within game theory. Its kinda fun
Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
IMHO formal treatments and formalisms are not helpful for complex systems, if you want to understand complex systems in general. They are NOT the right way, because they try to press the diversity of complex systems into equations with a few placeholders. This is the old way science has tried for centuries and which is now more or less obsolete, since Stephen Wolfram has proposed a New Kind of Science. Formal treatments, formalisms and equations are of course useful for chaos theory. Chaos theory and strange attractors are fascinating. The problem is that deterministic chaos is only a very special case of a complex system. Simplicity has a unified form, but complexity has many varieties. As Phil says, simplifying without confusing is not always easy. Perhaps the best way to understand complexity is to consider it as 'unity in diversity'. Formal or even mathematical definitions of complexity, self-organization or emergence are not helpful. They are helpful for simple systems with dumb particles and strong regularities, but they are less useful for complex systems with intelligent agents where many exceptional, unexpected and accidental events can happen. Classifications and taxonomies are much more useful wherever one has to deal with diversity. What one can do is to describe the different forms and types of complex systems, the different class of emergence and self-organization. If one has a more or less comprehensive set of classes, one can examine how they are connected, how they have evolved, and if it is possible to find a general principle like evolution, 'edge of chaos' or growth which connects them. -J. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:12 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity;Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro To kick off our discussions of Formalisms In Complexity, I thought I'd add this to the mix. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
Owen - this kind of editorial value added is invaluable , thanks... - Steve On Aug 1, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: To kick off our discussions of Formalisms In Complexity, I thought I'd add this to the mix. -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org -- The Six Desert Island Books On Complexity (In no particular order) This list began after several conversations on FRIAM about formalism, and its lack, in Complexity. These prompted me to see just what *was* available. These books all cover part of our Science with sufficient formalism. I've not read all of any of them, they are more like references for me, but they are focused on areas important to be rigorous about within our Science, if it is to be one. 1 - Bar-Yam: Dynamics of Complex Systems http://tinyurl.com/qumgf I put this first because it stands in for a Complexity Textbook. Surprisingly, there are no such texts that I've been able to find. Bar-Yam does a great job of looking at the areas deemed complex in the early 1990's when the book was written. 2 - Newman, Barabasi, Watts: The Structure and Dynamics of Networks http://tinyurl.com/jh3u8 This is the next best thing to a textbook, a series of readings, with a good introduction, in an area within complexity. There are others books of readings, the SFI redbooks, for example. This is particularly of interest to us due to the fast rise of graph theory within modeling. 3 - MacKay: Information Theory, Inference, and Learning Algorithms http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/mackay/ http://tinyurl.com/e5len Robert Holmes led us to this delightful book when he led a couple of WedTech meetings on the Monte Carlo techniques (Ch 29). This book is not only exceptional for its breadth, but also for its author putting the entire book online for free use! He also includes software examples using open source tools and actively maintains errata on his website. 4 - Gintis: Game Theory Evolving http://tinyurl.com/ew3yr Many of us use Agent Based Modeling for investigating problems. The agents have behavior and evolve in time. This book is a bit wacky in its approach, disdaining dogmatic and classical approaches, in order to focus on the import of evolution within game theory. Its kinda fun too. 5 - Strogatz: Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos: With Applications to Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Engineering http://tinyurl.com/e8ldl Strogatz may be the best teacher of technically difficult material in the world! He's won important prizes in this area. This is a great book for physicists who've always wondered why their profs gently led them around the great gaping holes in their art. 6 - Devaney: An Introduction to Chaotic Dynamical Systems http://tinyurl.com/z3l8r Our sister science, Chaos, has made exquisite headway in formalizing a difficult area. Were we so lucky! I have Chaos envy! There are several books out there, but this is the most cited I think. I'd also consider Davies, Exploring Chaos, for his short treatment and inclusion of really excellent Java applets, and Williams, Chaos Theory Tamed, for its very pragmatic, approachable and broad coverage. On Jul 31, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: As you have likely noticed, we've had a few conversations on FRIAM discussing formalisms in complexity: [FRIAM] Definition of Complexity [FRIAM] Dynamics of Complex Systems by Yaneer Bar-Yam [FRIAM] Lyapunov Exponent [FRIAM] What have the Romans - sorry - complexity done for us? You are invited to come chat about all this in person at the WedTech meeting this Wed, Aug 2. Due to schedule madness, we'll meet at 1:30, later than usual. We'll not need the conference room, so we'll meet at Tesoro so we can lunch while chatting. Best to get there a bit earlier so you can order lunch/greet before we start. Feel free to think of an issue or stance taken in the email exchanges and expand upon the theme. Or come with something new! Devil's advocates welcome! Examples taken from the various emails: - Hubler's and Gell-Mann's Definitions. - Thermal Dynamic or Statistical Mechanic formalisms. - Dissipative Structures, Gradients and Work. - Few Textbooks covering the field. - What headway has been made in the last 10 years? - Define Self Organization and/or Emergence. - Measures: Reynolds number, Correlation Length, etc. - What's the rush -- its emerging itself! - It's not a science but an approach. - This is silly and you are all chasing your tails! -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
To kick off our discussions of Formalisms In Complexity, I thought I'd add this to the mix. -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org -- The Six Desert Island Books On Complexity (In no particular order) This list began after several conversations on FRIAM about formalism, and its lack, in Complexity. These prompted me to see just what *was* available. These books all cover part of our Science with sufficient formalism. I've not read all of any of them, they are more like references for me, but they are focused on areas important to be rigorous about within our Science, if it is to be one. 1 - Bar-Yam: Dynamics of Complex Systems http://tinyurl.com/qumgf I put this first because it stands in for a Complexity Textbook. Surprisingly, there are no such texts that I've been able to find. Bar-Yam does a great job of looking at the areas deemed complex in the early 1990's when the book was written. 2 - Newman, Barabasi, Watts: The Structure and Dynamics of Networks http://tinyurl.com/jh3u8 This is the next best thing to a textbook, a series of readings, with a good introduction, in an area within complexity. There are others books of readings, the SFI redbooks, for example. This is particularly of interest to us due to the fast rise of graph theory within modeling. 3 - MacKay: Information Theory, Inference, and Learning Algorithms http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/mackay/ http://tinyurl.com/e5len Robert Holmes led us to this delightful book when he led a couple of WedTech meetings on the Monte Carlo techniques (Ch 29). This book is not only exceptional for its breadth, but also for its author putting the entire book online for free use! He also includes software examples using open source tools and actively maintains errata on his website. 4 - Gintis: Game Theory Evolving http://tinyurl.com/ew3yr Many of us use Agent Based Modeling for investigating problems. The agents have behavior and evolve in time. This book is a bit wacky in its approach, disdaining dogmatic and classical approaches, in order to focus on the import of evolution within game theory. Its kinda fun too. 5 - Strogatz: Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos: With Applications to Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Engineering http://tinyurl.com/e8ldl Strogatz may be the best teacher of technically difficult material in the world! He's won important prizes in this area. This is a great book for physicists who've always wondered why their profs gently led them around the great gaping holes in their art. 6 - Devaney: An Introduction to Chaotic Dynamical Systems http://tinyurl.com/z3l8r Our sister science, Chaos, has made exquisite headway in formalizing a difficult area. Were we so lucky! I have Chaos envy! There are several books out there, but this is the most cited I think. I'd also consider Davies, Exploring Chaos, for his short treatment and inclusion of really excellent Java applets, and Williams, Chaos Theory Tamed, for its very pragmatic, approachable and broad coverage. On Jul 31, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: As you have likely noticed, we've had a few conversations on FRIAM discussing formalisms in complexity: [FRIAM] Definition of Complexity [FRIAM] Dynamics of Complex Systems by Yaneer Bar-Yam [FRIAM] Lyapunov Exponent [FRIAM] What have the Romans - sorry - complexity done for us? You are invited to come chat about all this in person at the WedTech meeting this Wed, Aug 2. Due to schedule madness, we'll meet at 1:30, later than usual. We'll not need the conference room, so we'll meet at Tesoro so we can lunch while chatting. Best to get there a bit earlier so you can order lunch/greet before we start. Feel free to think of an issue or stance taken in the email exchanges and expand upon the theme. Or come with something new! Devil's advocates welcome! Examples taken from the various emails: - Hubler's and Gell-Mann's Definitions. - Thermal Dynamic or Statistical Mechanic formalisms. - Dissipative Structures, Gradients and Work. - Few Textbooks covering the field. - What headway has been made in the last 10 years? - Define Self Organization and/or Emergence. - Measures: Reynolds number, Correlation Length, etc. - What's the rush -- its emerging itself! - It's not a science but an approach. - This is silly and you are all chasing your tails! -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
[FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
As you have likely noticed, we've had a few conversations on FRIAM discussing formalisms in complexity: [FRIAM] Definition of Complexity [FRIAM] Dynamics of Complex Systems by Yaneer Bar-Yam [FRIAM] Lyapunov Exponent [FRIAM] What have the Romans - sorry - complexity done for us? You are invited to come chat about all this in person at the WedTech meeting this Wed, Aug 2. Due to schedule madness, we'll meet at 1:30, later than usual. We'll not need the conference room, so we'll meet at Tesoro so we can lunch while chatting. Best to get there a bit earlier so you can order lunch/greet before we start. Feel free to think of an issue or stance taken in the email exchanges and expand upon the theme. Or come with something new! Devil's advocates welcome! Examples taken from the various emails: - Hubler's and Gell-Mann's Definitions. - Thermal Dynamic or Statistical Mechanic formalisms. - Dissipative Structures, Gradients and Work. - Few Textbooks covering the field. - What headway has been made in the last 10 years? - Define Self Organization and/or Emergence. - Measures: Reynolds number, Correlation Length, etc. - What's the rush -- its emerging itself! - It's not a science but an approach. - This is silly and you are all chasing your tails! -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] WedTech: Formalisms In Complexity; Wed Aug 2, 1:30p @ Tesoro
I'd love to make it, but sadly I don't have a plane that flies fast enough. Need to see if the Thunderbirds will lend me theirs... On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 11:23:39AM -0600, Owen Densmore wrote: As you have likely noticed, we've had a few conversations on FRIAM discussing formalisms in complexity: [FRIAM] Definition of Complexity [FRIAM] Dynamics of Complex Systems by Yaneer Bar-Yam [FRIAM] Lyapunov Exponent [FRIAM] What have the Romans - sorry - complexity done for us? You are invited to come chat about all this in person at the WedTech meeting this Wed, Aug 2. Due to schedule madness, we'll meet at 1:30, later than usual. We'll not need the conference room, so we'll meet at Tesoro so we can lunch while chatting. Best to get there a bit earlier so you can order lunch/greet before we start. Feel free to think of an issue or stance taken in the email exchanges and expand upon the theme. Or come with something new! Devil's advocates welcome! Examples taken from the various emails: - Hubler's and Gell-Mann's Definitions. - Thermal Dynamic or Statistical Mechanic formalisms. - Dissipative Structures, Gradients and Work. - Few Textbooks covering the field. - What headway has been made in the last 10 years? - Define Self Organization and/or Emergence. - Measures: Reynolds number, Correlation Length, etc. - What's the rush -- its emerging itself! - It's not a science but an approach. - This is silly and you are all chasing your tails! -- Owen Owen Densmore http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- *PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which is of type application/pgp-signature. Don't worry, it is not a virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you may safely ignore this attachment. A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile) Mathematics0425 253119 () UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australiahttp://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
