Golf contests and naive solutions?
Hi folks, We were wondering if the referees were to provide a naive solution for perlgolf contests? This way, beginners could really see what the script is to do (remember Ton's Christmas tournament where only one beginner managed to provide a working solution - and thus, won). Otoh, I can imagine golf holes where such a solution would be too much a hint... Of course, the naive solution would be _very_ naive (and trust me, it's really hard to write such a solution without using perl shortcuts ;) ). So, what do you think? Should the referees provide a naive solution? We're waiting for your feedbacks... Jerome -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
En op 17 maart 2002 sprak Jerome Quelin: We were wondering if the referees were to provide a naive solution for perlgolf contests? As y'all know, I have promised to organize the Dutch Masters around Easter. Because of your monthly TPR matches, I don't think anyone will object if the DM will be held in mid-April (say, April 18-22). Anyway, I'm trying to find some fun problems at the moment, and one of the holes will probably be just this: it will be a more difficult problem, but a simple (and long) solution will be given. I've just written that solution, and I'm simplifying it now. So, what do you think? Should the referees provide a naive solution? We're waiting for your feedbacks... I don't think it is necessary for all holes. If you're talking about the TPR matches, if the next one is as 'simple' (as in: easy to explain, and with short solutions) as the previous two, there is probably no need. But I'm not really a beginner, so my opinion does not really count. Eugene
regex for html img... tags
hi I have a long string which contains some img.. html tags ala img height=67 alt= hspace=0 src=C:\DHTMSamp\SAMPLES\Web\images\AddItem.GIF width=72 align=baseline border=0 I need to do it throughout the whole string which can contain serval img tags. I need an regex that can replace everything between src= and the imagename with images/ I want to make those stupid MS typical direct image links so they use the images on the server insted of those on the client machine. Can anyone help me?? thanx Kim Schulz
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
Jerome Quelin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in perl.fwp : Hi folks, We were wondering if the referees were to provide a naive solution for perlgolf contests? This way, beginners could really see what the script is to do (remember Ton's Christmas tournament where only one beginner managed to provide a working solution - and thus, won). Otoh, I can imagine golf holes where such a solution would be too much a hint... Of course, the naive solution would be _very_ naive (and trust me, it's really hard to write such a solution without using perl shortcuts ;) ). Providing a naive solution may be also a good way to specify the required behavior, for a complex problem. To produce naive code, you can try to write C-like code : C-style for loops, no push() or pop(), but instead indexed access to arrays, prefer substr() over regular expressions, etc. (But use C constructs with moderation. Avoid printf ;-)
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 10:00:47AM +0100, Jerome Quelin wrote: So, what do you think? Should the referees provide a naive solution? We're waiting for your feedbacks... Good question. On the plus side, a naive solution gives beginners a chance to have something to begin with and work on. On the minus side, it's usually the inspiration on /how/ to resolve the problem that makes all the difference. Even a naive solution might give too much. I would be tempted to say 'no'. Or maybe set the rule that if you peer at the naive solution to are automatically tagged as a 'beginner' and get a handicap on your Y-index. But I don't really have strong opinions, and ain't a beginner anyway. So I'll let the Llamas among us speak for themselves. :) Joy, Yanick -- My fear is greater than my faith but I walk the missionary way. - Suede, Tori Amos
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
Speaking as a beginner, here's what I think: what I would find very helpful is a detailed analysis of the top 2 or 3 (different) solutions in the post mortem. I'm at the point where I know how to attack many different problems, just maybe not that efficiently, and I suspect that most beginners should be around that same level. So I don't think a naive solution would help me much. Although, what if the hole essentially said, here's some code, now trim it down? That would be good for us beginners, in that we'd have to understand the code first, then go off and chop it down. Hmm, maybe a Beginners Start Here page, and one for the rest of y'all. My 0.8 korun. Pepik
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
On Dimanche 17 Mars 2002 16:21, Joe Knize wrote : Speaking as a beginner, here's what I think: what I would find very helpful is a detailed analysis of the top 2 or 3 (different) solutions in the post mortem. We provide a deconstruction of the winner's entry in the Perl Golf column of The Perl Review (http://www.theperlreview.com). Jerome -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
And yes, once you looked at the naïve solution, maybe all your submissions for that hole are in the beginner's? That'd be good... making the difference between a beginner and an expert more distinct. The beginners could also get some more starting hints... e.g. some man sections that *might* be relevent, just to get them started. Giving this information early on isn't really a problem - the experts will hammer the beginners regardless (and know those tricks anyway). For the beginners, it gives them more of a chance. It'd be really unfortunately for Eugene and co. if they were beaten by the beginners - but that's the way of the game. Certainly, the Human Sort was too tricky for beginners - as finding even a basic solution for the sort was REALLY DIFFICULT for a beginning Perl programmer, let alone a beginning Perl golfer. Jonathan Paton __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Re: regex for html img... tags
Kim == Kim Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kim hi Kim I have a long string which contains some img.. html tags ala Kim img height=67 alt= hspace=0 Kim src=C:\DHTMSamp\SAMPLES\Web\images\AddItem.GIF width=72 Kim align=baseline border=0 Kim I need to do it throughout the whole string which can contain serval Kim img tags. I need an regex that can replace everything between src= and Kim the imagename with images/ I want to make those stupid MS typical Kim direct image links so they use the images on the server insted of Kim those on the client machine. Can anyone help me?? thanx This doesn't exactly qualify as on-charter for Fun With Perl. You might try asking on the beginner's mailing list, or on the Perl newsgroups. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
Le Dimanche 17 Mars 2002 10:00, Jerome Quelin a écrit : Hi folks, [...] So, what do you think? Should the referees provide a naive solution? We're waiting for your feedbacks... Jerome I am a perl beginner and a perl golf beginner, but not a programmer beginner, so *I* don't need such a naive solution: part of my pleasure consists in creating one (or more) algorithm - TIMTOWTDI :-) But I am not opposed to such step, maybe this will encourage beginners. Jean-Pierre -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When to publish the leader board?
I have another suggestion for future golf competitions, which I'm not sure whether it's a good one, so I'm raising it on fwp. Maybe the leader board should not be published until a couple of days into the competition. The leader board provides a great incentive to strive to improve one's position. But I noticed that this time there were a lot of people in the 50's and low 60's very early, and I was worried that this might prevent people playing at all if their first attempt was in the 80's or whatever. Whereas if they'd already jumped in, I think they might continue to play later. I admit that there was a very high number of players this time, so maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily. But what do other people think? -- Stephen Turner, Cambridge, UKhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/adelie/stephen/ This is Henman's 8th Wimbledon, and he's only lost 7 matches. BBC, 2/Jul/01
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Jonathan E. Paton wrote: And yes, once you looked at the naïve solution, maybe all your submissions for that hole are in the beginner's? That'd be good... making the difference between a beginner and an expert more distinct. The beginners could also get some more starting hints... e.g. some man sections that *might* be relevent, just to get them started. But anyway, the information is available for both beginners and veterans. I couldn't help but peek at those hints, even though I play in the veterans league... As for giving naive code as an example of what the program is expected to do... well, that's what the test scripts are for. -- Philippe BRUHAT - BooK Financez le développement de Perl, avec YAS et les Mongueurs de Perl ! http://www.mongueurs.net/association/actions/pdg2002.html
Re: regex for html img... tags
Jeremy == Jeremy Zawodny [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeremy If that's true, perhaps this list should be renamed perl-golf so that Jeremy those uninterested in golf can un-subscribe and be assured that they Jeremy aren't missing anything... I've actually been pondering the same thing. FWP was originally far more than Golf. I've seen only Golf recently. For that, I may pay less attention. Obfuscated Perl and Golf are both uninteresting to me. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: regex for html img... tags
At 4:02 PM -0800 3/17/02, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Obfuscated Perl and Golf are both uninteresting to me. Ditto, but many FWP members seem to like them. So, I'm happy to let the Golfers play through. If those of us who have different interests fail to post items, we have nobody but ourselves to blame for any shortage of interesting material. The question in question could, in any case, have been sent to Perl-Friends, except that that list seems to have vanished. -r -- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; phone: +1 650-873-7841 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm- my home page, resume, etc. http://www.cfcl.com/Meta - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc. http://www.ptf.com/dossier - Prime Time Freeware's DOSSIER series http://www.ptf.com/tdc - Prime Time Freeware's Darwin Collection
Re: regex for html img... tags
On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 04:46:57PM -0800, Rich Morin wrote: At 4:02 PM -0800 3/17/02, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Obfuscated Perl and Golf are both uninteresting to me. Ditto, but many FWP members seem to like them. So, I'm happy to let the Golfers play through. If those of us who have different interests fail to post items, we have nobody but ourselves to blame for any shortage of interesting material. Guilty as charged. :-) The question in question could, in any case, have been sent to Perl-Friends, except that that list seems to have vanished. If there is sufficient interest, I'd be glad to resurrect and host perl-friends. Or we could get it hosted at perl.org. Either way. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance Desk: (408) 349-7878 Fax: (408) 349-5454 Cell: (408) 685-5936
Re: Golf contests and naive solutions?
On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 10:00:47AM +0100, Jerome Quelin wrote: Hi folks, We were wondering if the referees were to provide a naive solution for perlgolf contests? This way, beginners could really see what the script is to do (remember Ton's Christmas tournament where only one beginner managed to provide a working solution - and thus, won). Otoh, I can imagine golf holes where such a solution would be too much a hint... In general, yes, a naive solution should be given for a Perl golf contest. The main purpose in providing a solution is not to give hints, but to make it clear what the actual challenge is. For example, the human sort challenge was incompletely specified, even after several attempts, and would have benefited greatly from an example solution. For more suggestions on formulating a golf challenge, see my post Tips on Writing a Golf Challenge on PerlMonks: http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=82470 Ronald
Re: regex for html img... tags
On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 02:27:14PM +, Kim Schulz wrote: hi I have a long string which contains some img.. html tags ala img height=67 alt= hspace=0 src=C:\DHTMSamp\SAMPLES\Web\images\AddItem.GIF width=72 align=baseline border=0 I need to do it throughout the whole string which can contain serval img tags. I need an regex that can replace everything between src= and the imagename with images/ I want to make those stupid MS typical direct image links so they use the images on the server insted of those on the client machine. Can anyone help me?? Which part of the perl FAQ addressing this question did you fail to understand? Abigail
