SV: [Megillot] 4QNeh
Is a lost of all of the Schøyen fragments available anywhere, Torleif? We all look forward to your edition of them, but just to give us something to think of meanwhile ... :-) kol tuv Søren -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: g-megillot-ad...@mcmaster.ca [mailto:g-megillot-ad...@mcmaster.ca] På vegne af Torleif Elgvin Sendt: 7. september 2010 08:19 Til: Ken Penner Cc: g-megillot@mcmaster.ca Emne: Re: [Megillot] 4QNeh Published on the web in 2009 by Charlesworth (www.ijco.org/?categoryId=28681http://www.ijco.org/?categoryId=28681). He probably had permission from Lee Biondi, who may have had access to the fragment at an earlier stage, without being the owner. The fragment now belongs to the Schøyen Collection, and will be published in a volume at TT Clark with all the Schøyen fragments (more than 20, and more than a dozen not published before) in 2011. Torleif Elgvin 2010/9/6 Ken Penner kpen...@stfx.camailto:kpen...@stfx.ca Could someone tell me where the Nehemiah fragment mentioned by VanderKam in DSST2, 49 (not a single fragment from a copy of Nehemiah was identified until 2008) was published? Thanks, Ken ___ g-Megillot mailing list g-megil...@mailman.mcmaster.camailto:g-megil...@mailman.mcmaster.ca http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] clay and scrolls
Dave Washburn wrote: I frequently wonder why otherwise competent scholars come up with statements like this one: --- Although chemical analysis indicated that several cave jars were made from clay found near Qumran, it also showed material from five other locations, suggesting that the scrolls might have originated in many different sites. --- How? All it suggests is that the JARS might have originated in many different sites. It says nothing at all about the scrolls therein. ** I don't have any particular axe to grind about this, but wouldn't it be fair to say that it not only suggests the jars *might* come from different places, but almost conclusively demonstrates this (unless unprocessed clay was carted around)? About the *scrolls* it obviously only suggests they *might* come from different places, but that was what the offending quote said in the first place. I guess some slightly louder reservations than just the word might could be a good idea if the quote is meant for journalistic consumption, buit there's nothing *wrong* being said there, is there? kol tuv Soren ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] osey hattora
Title: Meddelelse Hi Russell Thanks for the thorough update! You say that "the pesharim ... are completely lacking in Serekh terminology, as are the hymns" I would have said that one of the marks of "sectarian" provenience is the use of "yachad" in an undisputably nominal sense. There are some cases where an earlier pan-Essenic view of the Qumran finds led scholars to translate yachad as "community" in places where it might as easily just mean "together" as in the Bible, but when it occurs with the definite article, I would say it looks like an _expression_ unique to the sectarian scrolls -- and it's found BOTH in 1QS and in the pesharim (pretty much all of them except pNah), although its occurrence in 1QHa is debatable. Is this outside of what you define as "Serekh terminology"? I guess you were talking primarily of "halakhic" / religio-legal (trying to come up with a neutral term) issues? thanks again Soren -Oprindelig meddelelse-Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sendt: 28. april 2006 04:04Til: g-megillot@McMaster.caEmne: Re: [Megillot] SV: osey hattora Hi Soren, Here is part 2 of my response. 2. Old Paradigm, New Questions The existence of two distinct legal traditions indicates the necessity for a thorough reappraisal of the Qumran corpus, since it can no longer be assumed that these texts are homogenous or that they were produced by a single sect. The old idea that (H) and (S) laws in CD and other texts were produced by the same group now appears incorrect, but the appearance of these two legal traditions in the same library (and in the cases of CD and 4QSerek, the same texts) has not yet been adequately explained. That the (S) laws are late additions in CD appears to show that the (H) group at some point came under the influence of the group that authored the (S) texts. The Qumran field has not really assimilated the new findings. For instance, Bealls research on Josephus on the scrolls is sorely outdated in light of the Sadducee legal traditions now shown to permeate the halakhic texts at Qumran. Significantly, the parallels Beall catalogued at pp. 123-25 pertain almost exclusively to the Serekh texts; of 26 parallels, 22 come from 1QS (and CD parallels). Conversely, of the discrepancies he catalogs most involve the Damascus Document, not the Manual of Discipline, and these occur on points where these two texts themselves disagree. Such disagreements are largely found in (H) passages. I see no evidence that the Essenes used any text from Qumran except for a late, variant version of 1QS (which renders Goransons proposed derivation of the name Essene problematic, since the term does not appear in Serekh texts). Harmonistic attempts to read the Essenes into the rest of CD or into other scrolls such as the pesherim appear misguided IMO. The field has responded in various ways to the fact that both Sadducee and Essene traditions (as documented in later sources) are represented at Qumran. One approach, motivated IMO by an unwillingness of the adherents of the old paradigm to truly come to terms with the new evidence, is to blur the distinction between Essene and Sadducee, claiming that the two somehow overlapped. Perhaps the dominant model today is to label the Sadducee texts such as 11QT and (H) portions of CD as pre-sectarian, while the later (S) texts are considered sectarian by definition. It is commonly suggested that the Essenes under the leadership of the Teacher broke off from the Sadducees to form their own sect and authored 1QS and other (S) texts, perhaps at Qumran. Yet the Teacher is mentioned in none of the Serekh texts, while the pesharim which mention the Teacher are completely lacking in Serekh terminology, as are the hymns thought to be authored by this figure. It has not yet occurred to the field that the Teacher might instead have been associated with the earlier halakhic (Sadducee) tradition (something I will discuss next in my response in this thread to Philip Davies). Next: 3. The Teacher and the Halakhic Tradition Best regards, Russell Gmirkin
[Megillot] forthcoming Festschrift
On behalf of professors Thompson and Müller, I take the liberty of sending the lists a little plugging for the forthcoming Niels Peter Lemche Festschrift. Although 15 of the 30 articles are in English (14 Danish, 1 Norwegian), the book still has to make it on Danish market conditions, which in this case means the publisher demands a certain number of copies sold in advance by subscription to ensure that he's not throwing money out the window. By subscribing you get the 450 page book at app. two thirds the full price, i.e. US$ 37,- [DKK 225,-] (+ package and posting) rather than the full 53,- [DKK 325,-], plus you get the option of having your name included in the list of congratulants. Official text + table of contents below kol tuv Soren = Subscription Invitation Niels Peter Lemche will celebrate his 60th birthday on September 6th, 2005. In order to honor Niels Peter for his engagement and comprehensive involvement not only in the field of Old Testament studies, but also in the field of biblical exegesis as a whole, a Festschrift will be published with the title Historie og konstruktion, (History and Representation) which is being edited by Mogens Müller and Thomas L. Thompson. In thirty articles, a number of different issues are discussed, related to the theme of the volume. The book will also include a picture of Niels Peter, a short foreword by the editors, a bibliografi of Lemche's published works and a tabula gratulatoria. The thirty contributors and their titles are: Hans M. Barstad: Jeremiah as Text. Some Reflections on Genre and Reality in Old Testament prophetic Research - Bob Becking: Until This Day. On an Adverbial Adjunct and Biblical Historiography - Ehud Ben Zvi: Beginning to Address the Question: Why were Prophetic Books Produced and 'Consumed' in Ancient Yehud? - Per Bilde: Josefus om henrettelsen af Jakob (Ant 20,197-203). Et bidrag til at drøfte og illustrere problemstillingen historie og konstruktion - Pernille Carstens: I al sin glans. Om tilsynekomst i tekst og billede - Philip Davies, What Is minimalism and Why Do so many People Dislike It? - Greg Doudna: Who Is the Lion of Wrath of Pesher Nahum? A Brief Analysis - Diana Edelman: Nehemiah's Adversary, Tobiah the Patron - Bodil Ejrnæs: Jeg husker dig for din velsignelse, Zion ... . Zionmotivet i en salme fra Qumran - Troels Engberg-Pedersen, Om gavegivning hos Pierre Bordieu, Seneca og Paulus - Israel Finkelstein: Iron I Shilo: Twenty Years Late! r - Lester Grabbe: How Reliable are Biblical Reports?. A Response to V. Philips Long - Ingrid Hjelm: Changing Paradigms: Judaean and Samaritan Histories in Light of Recent Research - Else Kragelund Holt: Konstruktionen af personen profeten Jeremias - Søren Holst: Abraham at Qumran - Niels Hyldahl: Forholdet mellem Det Gamle og Det Nye Testamente - Jesper Høgenhaven: All who make idols are nothing Polemics against idolatry in Second Isaiah - Hans Jørgen Lundager Jensen: Durkheim ved Sinaj - Knud Jeppesen: Building and Foundation! An Essay about history and religion in the Old Testament - Douglas A. Knight: Erobring og okkupasjon. Krig ifølge Josvaboken - Helge Kvanvig: History and Narration in the Old Testament. A Theological Assessment - Mogens Müller: Lukasevangeliets iscenesættelse af en historisk Jesus. Om den fortidige fortid - Flemming Nielsen: Jahves kamp mod sin udsending - Jesper Tang Nielsen: Fødselshistoriens narrative konstruktion ! - Kirsten Nielsen: Konstruktion af betydningsgivende sammenhænge. Ell er Noget om krig, løver, hunde, fugle og en vingård - Christina Petterson: Slutning på slutning. Johannes 21 og disciplen på anden hånd - John Strange: Moses - en mytologisk figur? - Thomas Thompson: How the Heroes Have Fallen! - Emanuel Tov: Recording the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Text Editions of Hebrew Scripture - Henrik Tronier: Den historisk-kritiske eksegese som allegorisk bibelfortolkning The Festschrift Historie og konstruktion will comprise some. 450 pages and the sales price will be 325 Danish crowns. With the purchase of a subscription before the 6th of September, the volume can be obtained at the special price of 225 Danish crowns, plus the costs for packing and postage. If the subscription is ordered before August 1st it will be possible to have one's name listed in the tabula gratulatoria. It is possible to include both one's own name and that of one's spouse, plus the name of one's city. Subscriptions can be made by writing to the secretary Anne-Lise Pemmer, Department of Biblical Studies, Købmagergade 44-46, DK 1150 Copenhagen K, or via e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] as follows: The undersigned herewith order the Festschrift for Niels Peter Lemche's 60th birthday on the 6th of September, 2005 at the subscription price of 225 Danish crowns. I want/ do not want (delete one) to have my name included in the tabula gratulatoria. Name: Adress (city): Yours sincerely, Mogens
[Megillot] 4Q226 frag. 6a; etcetera
Stephen, DSSR 3 in the relevant place has a footnote saying E. Eshel and H. Eshel, DSD 11 (2004), forthcoming. Esti and Hanan Eshel confirmed that the publication is actually scheduled to come out in Dead Sea Discoveries, but in 2005, not 2004. DSSR 6, apart from Historical Texts and Tales, Apocalyptic Texts, Eschatological Texts, Magic and Divination, Documentary Texts and Miscellanea also has som 80 pages of Unclassified Manuscripts with Specific Names, but no pesher material, as far as I can see. The volume retains in its General Introduction the note that occurs in previous volumes too, stating about DJD V that it is envisaged to include the revised editions (from the planned revision of the complete volume, DJD Va) in the final volume, which of course is a bit funny, as this itself IS the final DSSR volume. M. Bernsteins (preliminary) revised edition of 4Q179 is in fact included in DSSR 5, but as for the rest of 4Q159-186, the edition retains the text of DJD V, but the translations have been revised/updated by Wise/Abegg/Cook and/or N. Gordon. But as I mentioned, a somewhat revised 1 or 2 vol edition is presumably foreseen, which I guess will have the revised DJD V texts. But I assume Brill will want the first one sold before they put the second one out :-) ... hope I didn't make this even more complicated than it actually is :-)) shabbat shalom / have a nice weekend Soren -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] på vegne af Stephen Goranson Sendt:18. marts 2005 15:17 Til: g-megillot@McMaster.ca Emne: [Megillot] 4Q226 frag. 6a; etcetera Thanks, Soren, for mentioning the DSS Reader 3 text 4Q226 frag. 6a. I haven't seen DSSR vol. 3. Is there more information there about this fragment and its assignment or provenance or editor (H. Eshel; J. VanderKam?)? It had/has previously been called Genesis 22 frag. and 4Q252 frag. Maybe it's just me this morning, but the photos of 4Q226 in DJD XIII plate XI seem fairly poor quality. I see Isaac is spelled the same way in frag. 7 line 5. By the way, the DSS Reader vol. 6 is in print, according to brill.nl I think it was supposed to include a few corrected readings of pesharim (with a revised DJD V Brooke and Bernstein to come later, unless I'm misinformed). Anyone seen that? Some other still unpublished privately-owned Qumran-claimed fragments are in the Schoyen Collection. Those from 11QT col. 1 if genuine may be important. Yadin said the first sheet was a replacement sheet, scribe A. I requested from the Shrine of the Book the locations (sheet or fragment) of the C14 tests; I have received a reply that it may take time to locate the information. Such would aid in attempting to verify (if we can speak of verifying) stray fragments. And potentially for comparing C14 results with DNA results--since not every sheet in a scroll need have the same date or source, but fragments of the same sheet should have. I also asked at the Schoyen Collection whether they would C14 test, or have done so, the date pen. best, Stephen Goranson ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale....? - PseudoJubilees??
The article doesn't specify what the new fragments are, but the mention of Hanan Eshel makes me think of the one recent reference to new Qumran fragments that I've seen in a scholarly publication, namely the extra fragment 6a of 4Q226 Pseudo-Jubilees included with the edition of this text on p. 114 of Parabiblical Texts (The Dead Sea Scrolls Reader vol 3.), ed. Parry and Tov, Leiden: Brill 2005. The fragment, a fuller publication of which is said to be forthcoming in DSD, seems to refer to the Aqedah. The full text is something like ] God to Abraha[m I]saac his son Take the [... ] and the angel of [Y]HWH [ Does anyone know, whether the new fragment(s) referred to in the article forwarded by Jim could be this? all the best Soren, Copenhagen -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] på vegne af Jim West Sendt:16. marts 2005 14:45 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; g-megillot@McMaster.ca Emne: [Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale? Listers may be very interested in this story: http://www.thepilot.com/features/r031605Scrolls.html (i've attempted to blog this morning but blogger seems to have been killed- so maybe I can blog this later if its revived) -- Jim West Biblical Studies Resources - http://web.infoave.net/~jwest Biblical Theology Weblog - http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale....? - PseudoJubilees??
The picture certainly fits DSSR 3 perfectly thanks Soren -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] på vegne af Stephen Goranson Sendt:16. marts 2005 16:46 Til: g-megillot@McMaster.ca Emne: Re: [Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale? - PseudoJubilees?? I'd need to check papers at home to be more sure, and I don't have DSSR 3 at hand, but, I think, tentatively, yes, this is one of the fragments mentioned in the article and on display in the Ink and Blood exhibit, there called a Genesis fragment. Photo: http://www.inkandblood.com/wysiwyg-uploads/files/downloadable_graphics/Genesis_Frag-hi.jpg best, Stephen Goranson Quoting Søren Holst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The article doesn't specify what the new fragments are, but the mention of Hanan Eshel makes me think of the one recent reference to new Qumran fragments that I've seen in a scholarly publication, namely the extra fragment 6a of 4Q226 Pseudo-Jubilees included with the edition of this text on p. 114 of Parabiblical Texts (The Dead Sea Scrolls Reader vol 3.), ed. Parry and Tov, Leiden: Brill 2005. The fragment, a fuller publication of which is said to be forthcoming in DSD, seems to refer to the Aqedah. The full text is something like ] God to Abraha[m I]saac his son Take the [... ] and the angel of [Y]HWH [ Does anyone know, whether the new fragment(s) referred to in the article forwarded by Jim could be this? all the best Soren, Copenhagen -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:g-megillot- [EMAIL PROTECTED] på vegne af Jim West Sendt:16. marts 2005 14:45 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; g-megillot@McMaster.ca Emne: [Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale? Listers may be very interested in this story: http://www.thepilot.com/features/r031605Scrolls.html (i've attempted to blog this morning but blogger seems to have been killed- so maybe I can blog this later if its revived) -- Jim West Biblical Studies Resources - http://web.infoave.net/~jwest Biblical Theology Weblog - http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] What's DSSR? [was DSS for sale]
Sorry about that. DSSR is the newest text edition: The Dead Sea Scrolls Reader, ed. Parry and Tov, Leiden: Brill 2004-2005. Six paperback volumes. Reproduces text and translation, often in improved and updated versions, of ALL of the non-biblical Qumran DJD volumes + all the stuff published outside of DJD (one of the MAJOR benefits is a brand new Hodayot edition by M. Abegg and others in vol 5). NOT included is the non-Qumran stuff (Daliyeh, Muraba'at, Masada -- also not the Cairo CD text), the biblical Qumran scrolls, and of course the entire commentary and notes-on-readings aspect of DJD and other editions. Diacritics to indicate uncertain readings ARE included though. I wouldn't have minded a more precise index to tell you exactly where a text is, but still it seems the best single edition around - and semi-portable too! :-) http://www.brill.nl/product_id11247.htm kol tuv Soren -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] på vegne af Dave Washburn Sendt:16. marts 2005 17:34 Til: g-megillot@McMaster.ca Emne: Re: [Megillot] dead sea scrolls for sale? - PseudoJubilees?? Pardon my lapse, but what's DSSR 3? On Wednesday 16 March 2005 08:50, Søren Holst wrote: The picture certainly fits DSSR 3 perfectly ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
[Megillot] What's DSSR? [was DSS for sale]
The DSSR has the texts organized by genre rather than Q sigla (as DJD itself), so when I want 4Q365a I may have to do a bit of rummaging about to discover on precisely what page of what volume it occurs. An index for that would have been great. I hear Parry Tov are working on a revised one- or two volume version - they may have supplied an index when that comes out. Doesn't Garcia-Martinez' study edition have them arranged in numerical order? Absolutely. That's one of the few points where it may have an advantage over DSSR. On the other hand there may be numerous advantages (e.g. when teaching) to having all texts of a specific class in the same place. The last volume of DSSR has an index that tells you in what volume to find a given Q number - but not on what page, so after that you have to go browse through the contents page of that volume. Still it's a wonderful edition, and my bickering is quite unfair :-) Soren ___ g-Megillot mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
