Re: [Megillot] updated url for zias' essay

2009-09-09 Thread dwashbur
It doesn't make that much sense to me since I don't know the context of his 
little tirade.

On 8 Sep 2009 at 17:53, Jim West wrote:

 http://www.archive.org/download/Qumrangate_553/qumrangate.pdf
 
 sorry- this is the corrected version.
 
 
 -- 
 ++
 
 Jim West
 http://jwest.wordpress.com
 
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Dave Washburn

http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
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Re: [Megillot] clay and scrolls

2007-03-08 Thread dwashbur


On 8 Mar 2007 at 8:52, Søren Holst wrote:

 Dave Washburn wrote:
 
 I frequently wonder why otherwise competent scholars come up with statements 
 like this 
 one:
 
 ---
 Although chemical analysis indicated that several cave jars were made from 
 clay found near 
 Qumran, it also showed material from five other locations, suggesting that 
 the scrolls might 
 have originated in many different sites.
 ---
 
 How?  All it suggests is that the JARS might have originated in many 
 different sites.  It says 
 nothing at all about the scrolls therein.  
 
 **
 
 I don't have any particular axe to grind about this, but wouldn't it be fair 
 to say that it not only suggests the jars *might* come from different places, 
 but almost conclusively demonstrates this (unless unprocessed clay was carted 
 around)?
 
 About the *scrolls* it obviously only suggests they *might* come from 
 different places, but that was what the offending quote said in the first 
 place. I guess some slightly louder reservations than just the word might 
 could be a good idea if the quote is meant for journalistic consumption, buit 
 there's nothing *wrong* being said there, is there?


I should probably have included more context, but I have a thing about 
bandwidth.  I'll try 
to clarify.  A few paragraphs before this one, the article set out the standard 
Essenes-at-
Qumran theory, mentioned the scriptorium and all the rest.  The clear 
implication is that 
some group at Qumran produced the scrolls in their scriptorium (I put that in 
quotes 
because I don't think that's what the room was, but that's another topic and I 
still have that 
thing about bandwidth).  

But then it turns around and notes that the jars came from different places, 
and it appears 
that it just sort of automatically jumps from that to the idea that if the jars 
came from different 
places, then the scrolls may have, too.  It seems to me that the simpler 
explanation would 
be that a scroll-producing group bought jars from different places and put 
their scrolls in 
them.  Alternately, if the jars and the scrolls are from various places, then 
it seems unlikely 
that we have a breakaway community with a scriptorium making scrolls to put in 
the jars.  I 
don't see how we can have it both ways.

But my main problem was what appeared to be an automatic leap from 
diverse-source jars 
to diverse-sources scrolls therein.  I don't see any good reason to make that 
leap.

Does that clear it up?

Dave Washburn
Bash the ground until bananas come out.

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Re: [Megillot] FW: Decoding the DSS

2007-03-07 Thread dwashbur
Agreed those things are possible.  But it's equally possible that they (whoever 
they were; I 
agree with you about the whole Essene thing) just bought jars wherever they 
could and put 
scrolls they had already made into them.  That's my gripe: the article goes 
immediately from 
jars from different sites to the scrolls had to have come from the same 
places.  It's a 
flying leap, nothing more, but the average reader isn't going to pick that up.

On 7 Mar 2007 at 11:53, Jim West wrote:

 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I frequently wonder why otherwise competent scholars come up with 
  statements like this 
  one:
  
  ---
  Although chemical analysis indicated that several cave jars were made from 
  clay found near 
  Qumran, it also showed material from five other locations, suggesting that 
  the scrolls might 
  have originated in many different sites.
  ---
  
  How?  All it suggests is that the JARS might have originated in many 
  different sites.  It says 
  nothing at all about the scrolls therein.  
 
 
 Maybe they are presuming that the jars were made at the very location 
 that the scrolls were written and then immediately shoved inside them. 
 (the scrolls into the jars that is).
 
 It really isn't outside the realm of possibility is it that if scrolls 
 are being produced jars are also being produced at the same location to 
 store them in?
 
 Mind you, I don't think there was an Essene encampment at Qumran.  I 
 think it was as Hirschfeld saw it (but alas, that's a minority viewpoint!)
 
 best
 
 jim
 
 
 
 -- 
 Jim West, ThD
 
 http://drjewest.googlepages.com/  -- Biblical Studies Resources
 http://drjimwest.wordpress.com  -- Weblog
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Dave Washburn
Bash the ground until bananas come out.
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