Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 01:00:05PM +0100, mindrunner wrote: someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. If you're still around... He didn't call *you* stupid. He called your *suggestion* stupid. It was rude, but then, what do you expect here? Seems this ML doesn't stick to technical discussions, but frequently digresses to such small-minded talk. It's those people who want to appear more intelligent and/or experienced than they actually are who do that. Those who *really* know their stuff don't stoop to such. If you can't take someone criticizing your opinion, then you need to stop participating in group discussions on the internet. Especially when they're not in your native language. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:00 AM, mindrunner ker...@ccube.de wrote: someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. Please, don't take Volker seriously as anyone who represents the basic discourse here. I black listed him a year ago but unfortunately his rudeness still leaks through. While he is technically capable, far more than me certainly, it's my opinion personally that he isn't worth the time. Feel free to blacklist him and then listen to others here who are technically at least if not far more capable and always more friendly in their delivery. Good luck, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
121109 mindrunner wrote: On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. Don't worry re VAH : he writes like that, but there's no ill-will often he has something useful to say. Most of the time, Gentoo-User is polite + intelligent a good source of Linux education. In this case, as someone else pointed out, VAH calls your idea stupid, which may be an exaggeration, but he does offer an explanation. At the risk of further antagonising you (smile): (1) don't top-post ! (2) please use your real name. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 05:56:57AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Please, don't take Volker seriously as anyone who represents the basic discourse here. I black listed him a year ago but unfortunately his rudeness still leaks through. While he is technically capable, far more than me certainly, it's my opinion personally that he isn't worth the time. Feel free to blacklist him and then listen to others here who are technically at least if not far more capable and always more friendly in their delivery. Good luck, Mark Thanks for clarifying ... Volker Armin Hemmann ... done -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:00:35AM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: Don't worry re VAH : he writes like that, but there's no ill-will often he has something useful to say. Most of the time, Gentoo-User is polite + intelligent a good source of Linux education. In this case, as someone else pointed out, VAH calls your idea stupid, which may be an exaggeration, but he does offer an explanation. Nice to read, and if it holds true, my apologies 'on the list' to VAH. At the risk of further antagonising you (smile): (1) don't top-post ! (2) please use your real name. ack (click and read the link in my sig if you don't understand) -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner: volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you do not know me. everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that one to 1/day. There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is not the best idea since sliced bread. - oops. Yeah, I see it. or - sulking. copying on block device level has of cource advantages. and really... i dont care about 0.4% fragemntation and some journal log. no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files. All damaged blocks AND the UUID. Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a lot. Still slow). I never made bad experiences with this copy technique. which doesn't mean it is a good one. all my hard drives, ssd and virtual containers are working fine without any performance issues. How do you know? so what exactly is your problem? you are telling someone to do something really stupid. Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a template for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd. Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for. Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just wrong. Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well, it does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it. Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the job. It just needs a lot of typing. tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files from one harddisk to another dd doesn't belong in that category. - #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 04:14:47PM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner:
volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you
do not know me.
everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that
one to 1/day.
There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is
not
the best idea since sliced bread.
- oops. Yeah, I see it.
or
- sulking.
copying on block device level has of cource advantages. and really... i
dont care about 0.4% fragemntation and some journal log.
no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files.
All
damaged blocks AND the UUID.
Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a
lot. Still slow).
I never made bad experiences with this copy technique.
which doesn't mean it is a good one.
all my hard drives, ssd and virtual containers are working fine without
any performance issues.
How do you know?
so what exactly is your problem?
you are telling someone to do something really stupid.
Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a
template
for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd.
Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for.
Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just
wrong.
Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well,
it
does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it.
Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a
good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how
incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the
job. It just needs a lot of typing.
tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files
from one harddisk to another
dd doesn't belong in that category.
-
#163933
Spot on! Here you can be nice and explain to the guy your reasoning behind
telling him using dd{whatever} for this job is stupid.
--
Happy Penguin Computers ')
126 Fenco Drive ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
supp...@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/
Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
[gentoo-user] Can't boot with kernel 3.5.7: init not being started
Hi, everyone. I recently built a kernel 3.5.7, but my system doesn't boot with it. More precisely, it appears not to be starting init, since the line containing INIT and version 2.88 is missing from my console display. The booting process did get as far as mounting my root partition RO. My system boots fine with 3.3.8. In my 3.5.7. .config, I've checked obvious things like having the ext3 driver built in. Would somebody please give me some idea what I might be doing wrong. Thanks! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On 11/9/2012 10:14 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner: volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you do not know me. everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that one to 1/day. There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is not the best idea since sliced bread. - oops. Yeah, I see it. or - sulking. I'm going to have to agree with Volker on this. I don't believe he was calling *you* stupid - just the idea of using dd to transfer files from old drive to new drive. The dd utility has it's good uses - that's just not one of those good uses. no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files. All damaged blocks AND the UUID. Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a lot. Still slow). Yes, you copy everything with dd, and it is extremely slow. It is better to use another utility to just copy the files and directory structure from the old drive to the new one. Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a template for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd. Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for. Agreed. Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just wrong. Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well, it does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it. Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the job. It just needs a lot of typing. tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files from one harddisk to another dd doesn't belong in that category. Very true. I'd personally rather use tar or even dar to copy the files. cp has it's limitations, though it is faster, as it doesn't use compression (technically, you don't need that with tar, either). Regards, Chris --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 121109-0, 11/09/2012 Tested on: 11/9/2012 12:56:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Can't boot with kernel 3.5.7: init not being started
Am 09.11.2012 18:47, schrieb Alan Mackenzie: Hi, everyone. I recently built a kernel 3.5.7, but my system doesn't boot with it. More precisely, it appears not to be starting init, since the line containing INIT and version 2.88 is missing from my console display. The booting process did get as far as mounting my root partition RO. My system boots fine with 3.3.8. In my 3.5.7. .config, I've checked obvious things like having the ext3 driver built in. Would somebody please give me some idea what I might be doing wrong. Thanks! Can you post us your config? Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
Time To build a new AMD system. What I'm sure of: FX-8350 Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo Suggestions on these hardware: Blueray RW (Vendor ?) DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?) ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues? CPU cooler (vendor-model?) One that this mobo without cramping ram space? passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?) NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions are most welcome. James
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
cpu cooler: Small quiet good performance http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/ -Andy On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Time To build a new AMD system. What I'm sure of: FX-8350 Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo Suggestions on these hardware: Blueray RW (Vendor ?) DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?) ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues? CPU cooler (vendor-model?) One that this mobo without cramping ram space? passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?) NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions are most welcome. James
Re: [gentoo-user] DHCP - specific inet no - how to
On Thursday 08 Nov 2012 13:15:27 J. Roeleveld wrote: On Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13:56 PM Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 11/08/2012 09:45:34 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:18:35 +0100, Andrea Conti wrote: Normally, a device tries to get the previous inet number, but sometime this changes. DHCP clients can neither request nor suggest a specific IP address, so they don't try to get anything. It's just the DHCP server giving out the previous IP to the same client, either by chance or because the existing lease hasn't expired yet. dhcpcd has a --resquest option to do just this. It only works if the address is available and if the server is returning a different address now it may be that your preferred address is in use. Have you considered running a local DHCP server, like dnsmasq? Thanks Neil! I have router (provided by my internet provider) which can be accessed by WLAN. Since I cannot modify/configure this router how can I make use of dnsmasq ? Helmut. Are you not able to use your own router? Being able to configure the DHCP and NAT-configuration of the router is often required to get certain software to work. There are multi-player games that need ports forwarded to be able to play with other people over the internet. (Just to name a common scenario) -- Joost Do you get a GUI when go to your routers LAN address with a browser, or a request for username when you telnet/ssh to it? If yes, you can try the various default passwords to see if you can log in, like admin, password, and others that google may advise as suitable candidates. Then you can try to set it up as a bridged-modem and do the routing and PPPoE authentication using a separate router as already advised. If this fails then contacting your ISP for advice on configuring your router may also be an option. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware
Andrew Hoffman sixgod at gmail.com writes: cpu cooler: http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/ -AndyOn Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James wireless at tampabay.rr.com Any ides on the dB (noise) rating? I like my machines on the low dB side I did not see dB ratings after looking at both, but, could have easily missed them. passive or a slow speed (low dB fan) on a water cooler would be keen? affordable? Necessary? James
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
James wrote: Time To build a new AMD system. What I'm sure of: FX-8350 Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo I have a Gigabyte mobo. Good choice. I don't have that specific model but brand is good. I been wanting to get that CPU too. ;-) Suggestions on these hardware: Blueray RW (Vendor ?) Prices are coming down on those so that could be a good move. Also, if you use CD/DVD/Blueray to backup data, also a good idea to have this. DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?) ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues? If you go to Gigabyte's website and look up your mobo, there is a link on the right that tells you what CPUs and memory are tested and BIOS version needed too if CPU is very new. Generally they test the larger brands on memory but it gives you a good idea what works. I used G Skill and I have had no problems. I have 16Gbs on mine. Crucial and others are good to tho. Just get the fastest speed the mobo can handle. On the fit issue. My CPU cooler does touch one of my coolers on the memory card. It just needs a extra 1/8 to be clear of it but it does touch. I have a LARGE CPU cooler tho. I bought about the biggest they had at the time that was within reason price wise. My CPU does run very cool tho. I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case. Lots of large fans. CPU cooler (vendor-model?) One that this mobo without cramping ram space? See above. passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?) My video card was donated. It's Nvidia based so that does not apply since you want ATI. NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions are most welcome. James If you want links and such, let me know. I bought mine from newegg to. I'm pretty sure my CPU cooler will fit yours but it is big. The one that comes with the CPU is really small. I wouldn't trust that. Hope this helps. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware
I don't have any info on the noise other hand the fan on my hr-02 macho will turn off from time to time because it cools so well. My video cards are definitely the loudest in my system. For you, someone who likes quiet systems, air or water both still need a fan and will make noise and the fan you pick has the biggest impact on noise. Thermalright makes very good high quality products and does not skimp when selecting the fan. I you can check on Newegg for the fan they use on the cooler and find out its ratings but like I said my system turns the fan off from time to time with cool and quiet enabled on my machine. You will want to check hardocp's review on the h100 water cooling kit from corsair but I don't have any first hand experience with them. -andy On Nov 9, 2012 1:56 PM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Andrew Hoffman sixgod at gmail.com writes: cpu cooler: http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/ -AndyOn Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James wireless at tampabay.rr.com Any ides on the dB (noise) rating? I like my machines on the low dB side I did not see dB ratings after looking at both, but, could have easily missed them. passive or a slow speed (low dB fan) on a water cooler would be keen? affordable? Necessary? James
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
On 2012-11-09 20:00, James wrote: passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?) If you wish to use kms and mesa drivers, you can compare the current status of various AMD chips here: http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature#Feature_Matrix_for_Free_Radeon_Drivers I got a Sapphire HD6670 Ultimate edition (passively cooled) which works beautifully in all things that I use it for (desktop, games, video). I picked the radeon 6670 (Northern Islands chip, Turks to be specific) because it's the latest chip with the best mesa support (Southern Islands chips 3D support is work-in-progress at the moment) and I'm happy with it. Best regards Peter K
[gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
I have a sore head from banging it on the wall for the last week, but it's beginning to feel better already. I just (finally!) got all my needed services up and running at boot time, and it's *fast*. Rebooting and shutdown are lightning fast now, a matter of five seconds or so. Cool :) I actually wrote some systemd unit files for myself and debugged them mostly by trying random variations on the basic theme. I'm very sure that openrc would have been as bad or worse if I'd needed to write the scripts myself. You Lennart haters out there (and I was one of you not so long ago ;) now I think he's not so bad after all. He just doesn't know yet how to explain things properly to old farts.
[gentoo-user] deleted /var/db/*
I idiotically and accidentally deleted /var/db/*. What can I do to bring things back in line? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On 2012-11-09 23:53, walt wrote: You Lennart haters out there (and I was one of you not so long ago ;) now I think he's not so bad after all. He just doesn't know yet how to explain things properly to old farts. Good for you. I really don't see the point in preaching systemd's greatness (or Lennart's). I'm not going to try it anyway. Also, I really don't see a point in booting fast (and I don't see anything wrong with openrc). So why do you feel the need to preach? Just curious... Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] deleted /var/db/*
Am 10.11.2012 00:09, schrieb Grant: I idiotically and accidentally deleted /var/db/*. What can I do to bring things back in line? - Grant You could start by re-emerging everything that is in /var/lib/portage/world That should pull in almost all deps
Re: [gentoo-user] deleted /var/db/*
On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:09:50 -0800, Grant wrote: I idiotically and accidentally deleted /var/db/*. What can I do to bring things back in line? emerge -e @world should recreate it, although it is far from instant :( ...unless you have buildpkg in FEATURES, in which case you could use emerge -ek @world -- Neil Bothwick Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Can't boot with kernel 3.5.7: init not being started
Am 09.11.2012 19:46, schrieb Alan Mackenzie: On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 07:12:09PM +0100, Florian Philipp wrote: Am 09.11.2012 18:47, schrieb Alan Mackenzie: Hi, everyone. I recently built a kernel 3.5.7, but my system doesn't boot with it. More precisely, it appears not to be starting init, since the line containing INIT and version 2.88 is missing from my console display. The booting process did get as far as mounting my root partition RO. My system boots fine with 3.3.8. In my 3.5.7. .config, I've checked obvious things like having the ext3 driver built in. Would somebody please give me some idea what I might be doing wrong. Thanks! Can you post us your config? OK, here it is: [...] Works for me. For a certain definition of works. It boots but cannot mount tmpfs for /run. After that, openrc throws me to a login screen with a read-only root partition. Only changes I made was changing the CPU type to intel, adding a few crypto algorithms and adding btrfs in case the boot process got far enough to try /etc/init.d/localmount. Root is ext4. What init system are you using? Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] uefi gpt grub2
On Thursday 08 November 2012 13:53:22 Randolph Maaßen wrote: 2012/11/8 j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk Over the last few days I have tried to set up using uefi gpt and grub2. After many hours of frustration I have gone back to grub legacy and mbr. I followed the Gentoo wiki and Arch wiki and several other sources of which I failed miserably. Is this technology fairly unreliable? I booted from a uefi enabled usb stick but still fell over. Is this ready for mainstream or still alpha like? Also does ufibootmgr change motherboard firmware? Somehow this feels wrong if the case. John D Maunder Hi, I tried installing UEFI GPT too a few months ago, but I had a semi success. After some days of fiddeling around with parameters and variables I could boot the system, but I can't see the kernel output or open-rc. But the X built-in efifb and add video=efifb to kernel command line. loads and the system works after that like normal, but without the textual ttys. terminal emulations like xterm or so work. So I would install it again, but it isn't as easy as thought. -- __ gentoo rocks -- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\___ (__)\ )\/\ ||w | || ||
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
pk wrote: On 2012-11-09 23:53, walt wrote: You Lennart haters out there (and I was one of you not so long ago ;) now I think he's not so bad after all. He just doesn't know yet how to explain things properly to old farts. Good for you. I really don't see the point in preaching systemd's greatness (or Lennart's). I'm not going to try it anyway. Also, I really don't see a point in booting fast (and I don't see anything wrong with openrc). So why do you feel the need to preach? Just curious... Best regards Peter K I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: root@fireball / # uptime 18:09:00 up 48 days, 11:18, 3 users, load average: 0.18, 0.25, 0.30 root@fireball / # As long as the local power company gives me power, I'm running. My rig, fast as it might be, pulls significantly less power than my old rig that is only about a tenth as fast. So, faster rig, less power. I can handle that. As long as I can have good uptimes, I just don't see any need to convert to something I only use once every couple months. Now for someone who has to reboot a lot, sounds windowish doesn't it, then by all means convert to systemd or whatever suites your fancy. As always, what works for one doesn't suite the needs of another. That's why we use Gentoo. We get to use what suites us. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On Saturday 10 November 2012 00:13:04 pk wrote: On 2012-11-09 23:53, walt wrote: You Lennart haters out there (and I was one of you not so long ago ;) now I think he's not so bad after all. He just doesn't know yet how to explain things properly to old farts. Good for you. I really don't see the point in preaching systemd's greatness (or Lennart's). I'm not going to try it anyway. Also, I really don't see a point in booting fast (and I don't see anything wrong with openrc). So why do you feel the need to preach? Just curious... systemd is not just about booting fast. If booting fast is the only thing you can have in systemd, then systemd is nothing. what systemd give you: easier maintainance ! what openrc give you: already maintained well by Gentoo self-less- ness guy. but if an update goes, the Gentoo Devs will be busy again. Again , you're not the one maintainning such shell script crap.It's the ebuild maintainer that does. __ gentoo rocks -- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\___ (__)\ )\/\ ||w | || ||
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1...@ger.gmane.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. -- Keith -- -- ~ Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz public key: ID: 19017044 http://www.dartworks.biz/ =
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz wrote: Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1...@ger.gmane.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. As 微蔡 said, fast boots is only one of the many advantages that systemd offers. It's probably the most user-visible, though. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. We have had some of those lately. I believe João Matos just did the switch some weeks ago, using KDE. I did it almost two years ago, around December 2010, using GNOME (then 2, now 3). I haven't heard any insurmountable problem when switching: if you are a regular desktop or simple server user, it probably will work without you needing to do anything special (except using init=/usr/bin/systemd in your kernel command line and maybe needing to reemerge a couple of packages with USE=systemd). If you use something more complicated (RAID, LVM, NFS, that kind of stuff), you probably will need to enable or perhaps change a couple of services, but that's it. If you use a not very common daemon, maybe you will need to write its service file; but it's ridiculous easy (specially when compared to sysvinit scripts). Just a word of advice: if you are a normal laptop user, systemd has replaced most of the functionality of consolekit; so if you boot with systemd, several packages need to have enable the systemd USE flag (and the consolekit one disabled). In particular, pambase and polkit need to set either systemd or consolekit, but cannot set both. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On 11/09/2012 03:13 PM, pk wrote: On 2012-11-09 23:53, walt wrote: You Lennart haters out there (and I was one of you not so long ago ;) now I think he's not so bad after all. He just doesn't know yet how to explain things properly to old farts. Good for you. I really don't see the point in preaching systemd's greatness (or Lennart's). I'm not going to try it anyway. :) systemd is coming whether you or I like it or not so I'm trying to stay a bit ahead of the tsunami, that's all. The emotions started running high when Lennart pushed pulseaudio on us awhile ago, and he's doing it again now with systemd. I didn't see the purpose for pulse until I (finally) bought a new computer with audio hardware I'd never seen before, and then I finally understood why he invented this silly pulse nonsense. I still don't quite understand the entire motivation behind systemd but I'll bet it will become obvious to me in the future. Also, I really don't see a point in booting fast A speedy reboot is very nice for those of use who compile and test a new kernel from Linus every morning and file kernel bug reports when appropriate. If I do find a kernel bug I may need to recompile/reboot many times as quickly as my machine can do it, so saving 15-20 seconds per reboot cycle just feels less painful :) (and I don't see anything wrong with openrc). So why do you feel the need to preach? Just curious... I didn't intend to preach, I intended to brag that I got it working :p
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
Re 20121109171149.1d8a3e18@dartworks.biz20121109171149.1d8a3e18@dartworks.biz509D9C62.9040909@gmail.com509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1...@ger.gmane.org, Canek Peláez Valdés said: Just a word of advice: if you are a normal laptop user, systemd has replaced most of the functionality of consolekit; so if you boot with systemd, several packages need to have enable the systemd USE flag (and the consolekit one disabled). In particular, pambase and polkit need to set either systemd or consolekit, but cannot set both. Thanks for the advice! So now I'm motivated to go do it. :) -- Keith -- -- ~ Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz public key: ID: 19017044 http://www.dartworks.biz/ =
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
Keith Dart wrote: Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1...@ger.gmane.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. -- Keith I mentioned in my post that there are reasons some may want to use systemd. Here it is: Now for someone who has to reboot a lot, sounds windowish doesn't it, then by all means convert to systemd or whatever suites your fancy. As always, what works for one doesn't suite the needs of another. That's why we use Gentoo. We get to use what suites us. It sounds like systemd would benefit you since you have to reboot a lot. Thing is, lots of people don't reboot that often. Given you have a laptop, you likely reboot quite often and even a faster boot up would be nice so maybe you should give it a try. After all, when you are running off of a battery, every bit counts. I have seen quite a few posts where people have switched to it. It seems it has a bit of a curve to getting it working but once working, it works. Me, if I was going to switch, I'd use a second install or copy my current install to another partition, just in case I can't get around that curve. ;-) My point was that I don't see any reason to switch myself. While sort of agreeing with pk, I do see what some would want to switch and I have no problem with someone posting a success story. I have done so myself when I went to LVM. I'm sure there are others but that is one I remember pretty well. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
[gentoo-user] Re: [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On 11/09/2012 06:30 PM, Dale wrote: Me, if I was going to switch, I'd use a second install or copy my current install to another partition, just in case I can't get around that curve. ;-) Heh, you didn't think I started with my real machine, right? I've spent the last week rebooting a VirtualBox install of gentoo every 10 minutes or so :/ I'm planning to convert my fallback *real* machine tomorrow, and then maybe if everything goes okay I'll do this machine on Sunday. (Sunday morning so I have all day to bail myself out.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
walt wrote: On 11/09/2012 06:30 PM, Dale wrote: Me, if I was going to switch, I'd use a second install or copy my current install to another partition, just in case I can't get around that curve. ;-) Heh, you didn't think I started with my real machine, right? I've spent the last week rebooting a VirtualBox install of gentoo every 10 minutes or so :/ I'm planning to convert my fallback *real* machine tomorrow, and then maybe if everything goes okay I'll do this machine on Sunday. (Sunday morning so I have all day to bail myself out.) You sound like me. I go into something expecting everything that can go wrong to do just that. If it breaks badly, I'm not to disappointed. Exception to that, hal. Let's not go there tho. If it works like it should then I am pleasantly surprised. ROFL I need to look into this VirtualBox thing. It sounds sort of like a chroot thing or something. I got to startpage up a wiki or something. o_O I say startpage cause I no longer use super nosey google except for email. I plan to switch that one of these days. I'm glad you got it going tho. Why not post what pot holes you ran into? It seems some want to follow in your footsteps. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] deleted /var/db/*
I idiotically and accidentally deleted /var/db/*. What can I do to bring things back in line? emerge -e @world should recreate it, although it is far from instant :( ...unless you have buildpkg in FEATURES, in which case you could use emerge -ek @world Thanks, I do have buildpkg. Shouldn't emerge world and emerge -e world do the same thing at this point? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 17:11:49 schrieb Keith Dart: Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1...@ger.gma ne.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. -- Keith suspend to ram is the answer. Faster than any boot. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James: Time To build a new AMD system. What I'm sure of: FX-8350 Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo Suggestions on these hardware: Blueray RW (Vendor ?) DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?) ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues? CPU cooler (vendor-model?) doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution? -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
On Saturday 10 November 2012 07:54:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 17:11:49 schrieb Keith Dart: Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1@ger.g ma ne.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. -- Keith suspend to ram is the answer. Faster than any boot. The you are happy to use a system take take a year to boot, then never shutdown. -- __ gentoo rocks -- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\___ (__)\ )\/\ ||w | || ||
Re: [gentoo-user] [ANNOUNCE] I like systemd now :)
Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 15:17:26 schrieb 微蔡: On Saturday 10 November 2012 07:54:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 17:11:49 schrieb Keith Dart: Re 509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.se509D8E00.4030208@coolmail.sek7k1hn$ce6$1@ger.g ma ne.org, Dale said: I don't worry about boot up times much either. Here is why: I was thinking of converting to systemd on my Gentoo laptop. There I do boot frequently, and could benefit from quicker bootups. So I'm happy to some success stories with it, since I've been holding off on taking that plunge. -- Keith suspend to ram is the answer. Faster than any boot. The you are happy to use a system take take a year to boot, then never shutdown. more like 6 seconds - and suspend-to-ram is like shutdown. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James: Time To build a new AMD system. What I'm sure of: FX-8350 Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo Suggestions on these hardware: Blueray RW (Vendor ?) DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?) ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues? CPU cooler (vendor-model?) doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution? Nope. It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to me. I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat sink, not from the OEM at least. Someone may sell one that is bundled by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD. I don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4904561CatId=7339 Link if you are interested. I picked that because it loads faster than newegg. Is it just me or is newegg slow for everyone? That and ATT's website is like pouring cold molasses. o_O Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
