[gentoo-user] emerge output, screenshots and the list Was: fcitx crash, libpng cairo?
On 13 April 2013, at 06:14, Jackie wrote: ... Tried to downgrade libpng cairo today but no luck… I've here got the snapshot of the infomation got after masking libpng-1.6.1 cairo-1.12.14.Hell No!snapshot7_libpng_slot.png I'm looking at your problem now to try and help you with it, but you have attached an image screenshot of your emerge output (in this case the output of `emerge libpng cairo -pv`). In future please submit emerge output as plain text, not as an image. To complete my first paragraph just now, for example, I had to retype `emerge libpng cairo -pv`. As I did so I had to check between windows, looking left and right, to make sure I spelled it right. And I still cannot be certain of that! It would have been much easier for me if I could have just copied and pasted the text `emerge libpng cairo -pv`, instead of retyping it. In investigating your problem I will want to make lookups on the Gentoo packages database, and this is most easily done by googling (which may turn up other relevant results, also). When you supply your output as an image it makes this more difficult, too, because once again it prevents me from copying and pasting. You should be able to select and copy and paste from your terminal program - kTerm or iTerm or gnome-terminal or whatever. Otherwise you can use the tmux program and capture the buffer into a text file [1], which you can then copy and paste into your email using a GUI text editor. If you need help with this, please just tell us. Putting text in an image makes it harder to help you. Stroller. [1] http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/26568
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge output, screenshots and the list Was: fcitx crash, libpng cairo?
On 13 April 2013, at 11:11, Jackie wrote: … I am now glad to tell you that the problem was indeed due to cairo update,which caused fcitx's skin failed to load,thus th einput method failed to load normally.Luckily,upstream developers have delt with it and my problem was solved after I updated fcitx. Glad to hear this is now sorted. I have cross-posted your reply to the list, so that everyone else can see your other thread is now closed. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Apr 13, 2013 12:18 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan m...@nileshgr.com wrote: On Saturday 13 April 2013 10:39:08 AM IST, Kvothe Tech wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi people! My old core2duo machine says slowly goodbye and I am at this lever after 7 years for buying myself a new developer machine, that should serve me well for a long time again. With intel I never had problems, all their systems were REALLY stable, and they were really worth their money up to the last cent. I am asking all the gentoo people for an advise, for it's opinion which cpu to buy, that would perfectly work with Gentoo, as well where all of it's future would be used- There are 3 choices: Intel Xeon E5-2650 Core i7 3979 extreme edition AMD FX.8350 CPU for an advise, I would kindly thank you. Tamer Xeon if its a server i7 if not but that's just me also depends what else you have in it or want and what other than developing you're doing - -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. IMO FX8350 would be better, especially if you're running long compile jobs (include portage as a part of it). FX8350 outperforms i5 in various cases for the price point. I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. So, as long as one does not buy a laptop CPU, one can be sure that one gets everything one wants from a modern CPU. Rgds, --
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
130413 Tamer Higazi wrote: I am after 7 years buying myself a new developer machine well for a long time again. With intel I never had problems, all their systems were REALLY stable and they were really worth their money up to the last cent. There are 3 choices: Intel Xeon E5-2650 Core i7 3979 extreme edition AMD FX.8350 CPU When I bought the parts for a new machine in August 2012, AMD CPUs were clearly better value for my CAD than Intel. I bought an AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB for CAD 130 from Canada Computers, which does mail orders IIRC : it was the fastest processor around I was suspicious that most software doesn't make full use of larger numbers of cores. What has speeded my work up enormously is getting an SSD for storage with an HDD for back-up stuff I don't use everyday. Mine is an OCZ Vertex4 128 GB SATA3 R 560 MB/s W 430 MB/s for CAD 115 . HTH -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. So, as long as one does not buy a laptop CPU, one can be sure that one gets everything one wants from a modern CPU. Rgds, -- Same here. I have a couple Intel based rigs but they were given to me. I always build AMD based systems. Cheaper and good bang for the buck for what i do. Just my opinion. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
Hi Dale! Am 13.04.2013 13:54, schrieb Dale: Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. What is VT-x And also all the time, Intel promotes for their Hiperthreading support, as well Intel swears on their QuickPath system they have developed and should release the FSB which is stil being used at AMD, even when they mention that MT (Megatransfer instead GHZ) for describing their frontside bus speed so, it is in this case not only the CPU's speed, also the Speed the data reaches the memory, and other components like the GPU of your graphics device, no?! And what about Hyperthreading?! At the Gentoo make configuration guide, the intel corei7 are fully supported. There is being described, that if Intel corei 5 or 7 CPU's are used, I could double the amount of cpu's for compiling MAKEOPTS=-j8 (for a quadcore core i5 / 7) because of it's hyperthreading support. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. Where are the latest AMD CPU sets on Gentoo used at all ?! What about the Intel's one?! And do they make a huge difference in this case?! If you can give me a deep technical answer, I would be very happy The money is not what counts. It's the system stability. My AMD cpu was very lng time ago an AMD Athlon XP which makde me a lots of headache. The intel ones after it served me this 7 years well. However, I do not swear using intel, but I want to know if it makes sense or to buy a new intel cpu or it's only advertising in the cloud. I believe AMD is doing meanwhile stable cpu's as well, but from the technologie it is not only the number of cores for a stable gentoo system that counts ?! Tamer So, as long as one does not buy a laptop CPU, one can be sure that one gets everything one wants from a modern CPU. Rgds, -- Same here. I have a couple Intel based rigs but they were given to me. I always build AMD based systems. Cheaper and good bang for the buck for what i do. Just my opinion. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
Am 13.04.2013 15:28, schrieb Tamer Higazi: The intel ones after it served me this 7 years well. However, I do not swear using intel, but I want to know if it makes sense or to buy a new intel cpu or it's only advertising in the cloud. I believe AMD is doing meanwhile stable cpu's as well, but from the technologie it is not only the number of cores for a stable gentoo system that counts ?! I think that this is not a question of what is better but rather: what fits your current situation. Intel CPUs are (when you compare CPUs of the same price range!) better at tasks where you don't need all cores/HT (most games, for example) and they run cooler due to their lower power consumption under load. While idle neither Intel, nor AMD is better than the other. That being said, AMD CPUs can perform extremely well when it comes to programs that utilize all cores. The point is not that Intel can't utilize all cores, too. The point is, that AMD CPUs within the same price range than Intel CPUs will tend to be faster when it comes to such programs (look at Crysis 3) or compiling. I can't find it at the moment but there was a test somewhere testing what happens when you run Video Encoding, compiling, etc... on AMD CPUs and the FX 8350 beat a much higher priced Intel CPU with ease. About stability: I don't have a problem with my i7 920 system, nor do I have a problem with my FX 8350 system. Both are rock solid and I never experienced a hardware related crash.
Re: [gentoo-user] Rant/Warning: fun with awesome and lightdm
Am Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:23:35 +0700 schrieb Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info: On Apr 9, 2013 11:18 PM, Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de wrote: Update: I opened a bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465288. There is a reference to the Awesome upstream bug which resulted in the change to the desktop file, along with a link to a LightDM upstream bug that sounds like what was happening on my system. I hope I didn't aggravate anybody with this thread, I don't usually rant publicly like this (I'm sort of ashamed, actually). No worries; sometimes one needs to 'let out' one's bottled emotions. Keeping strong emotions unvented will be bad for your heart. I do consider the information relevant to Awesome users, though, since the change might also hit users of kdm, gdm, and others. In fact, Fedora also has a bug about this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=901434. ... and that's why I'm sure some of us surely appreciate your report. They may not say so publicly, but they are thankful :-) Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it :) (even if I responded a tad late). -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] fcitx crash----something to do with libpng cairo?
check your ~/.config/fcitx/log if you are sure fcitx crashed. Feel free to talk at irc #fcitx On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Jackie jiangjun12...@gmail.com wrote: 在 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:47:56 +0800，Wang Xuerui idontknw.w...@gmail.com 写道: 2013/4/13 Jackie jiangjun12...@gmail.com: I am use fcitx for Chinese after updating few packages today,fcitx just crash on startup and won't work even I start it in a terminal.I searched through Internet and figured it that this may have some thing to do with update libpng and cairo.One way out,however,may be just downgrade libpng cairo,which seem to involve tons of recompilation of related packages(got that after mask the update emerge libpng cairo -pv). So,anyone met this got a better solution? BTY,using fcitx 4.2.7,libpng-1.6.1:0/16 and cairo-1.12.14. HELP ME OUT:( I'm also a fcitx user, but my box has the stable versions of libpng and cairo as I checked just now. So I suppose your crashes are related to the ~KEYWORDed dependencies. If you have enough free time, you may try to debug the crash with gdb and report the issue to upstream... this way the developers will know about the breakage and come up with a patch, which benefits other fcitx users running ~KEYWORD systems as well. Sorry for my poor English:( But I am afraid that I'm not capable of fixing it myself due to my familiarity with Gentoo and debuging a program.Tried to downgrade libpng cairo today but no luck.The downgrade seems to result in a slot,caused by kdelibs and other packages dependencies I doubt whether it is a solution.I've here got the snapshot of the infomation got after masking libpng-1.6.1 cairo-1.12.14.Hell No! -- Regards, Erick Guan/管啸 (fantasticfears)
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Apr 13, 2013 8:29 PM, Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Dale! Am 13.04.2013 13:54, schrieb Dale: Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. What is VT-x you really should learn to use Google... In short: VT-x is Intel's version of AMD-V. What is AMD-V? It's a feature of AMD CPUs that *greatly* assist virtualization. It's not just VT-x, there are a *lot* of features that Intel may or may not provide on a certain model. And also all the time, Intel promotes for their Hiperthreading support, as well Intel swears on their QuickPath system they have developed and should release the FSB which is stil being used at AMD, Incorrect. AMD uses HyperTransport for a lng time. QuickPath is just Intel's version of HyperTransport. As to Hyperthreading... it was technology from Pentium 4 actually, originally called NetBurst, it splits a core into two virtual cores, leveraging Intel's long pipeline. There are benefits, but also drawbacks. even when they mention that MT (Megatransfer instead GHZ) for describing their frontside bus speed so, it is in this case not only the CPU's speed, also the Speed the data reaches the memory, and other components like the GPU of your graphics device, no?! Yes, and honestly, AMD was there first. IIRC, Intel still have some problems with cache coherency on multiple processor systems. AMD has no such problems; the HyperTransport technology used by AMD is perfectly capable of servicing NUMA Architecture. And what about Hyperthreading?! At the Gentoo make configuration guide, the intel corei7 are fully supported. The 'support' comes from gcc, and gcc fully supports AMD CPUs also. There is being described, that if Intel corei 5 or 7 CPU's are used, I could double the amount of cpu's for compiling MAKEOPTS=-j8 (for a quadcore core i5 / 7) because of it's hyperthreading support. As I wrote above, Intel's Hyperthreading splits each core into two virtual cores. Thus, if you know the number of physical cores *and* you've turned on Hyperthreading in the BIOS, you can (and should) double the number of jobs. That information is *not* due to Gentoo better supporting Intel, it's there because of Intel's complexity. AMD CPUs from the get-go already support a higher core density than Intel; they never need to split their cores into virtual cores. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. Where are the latest AMD CPU sets on Gentoo used at all ?! What about the Intel's one?! And do they make a huge difference in this case?! gcc -march=native will allow gcc to detect and leverage all features. I don't know which features are used where, except for AMD-V, which is heavily leveraged by virtualization (virtualbox or Xen, in my situation). If you can give me a deep technical answer, I would be very happy The money is not what counts. It's the system stability. My AMD cpu was very lng time ago an AMD Athlon XP which makde me a lots of headache. You're sooo out of date. Nowadays, AMD CPUs are at least as stable as Intel CPUs. Rgds, --
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
E3 1230v2 is enough for me. You don't have to spend a lot of money for CPU. On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Apr 13, 2013 8:29 PM, Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Dale! Am 13.04.2013 13:54, schrieb Dale: Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. What is VT-x you really should learn to use Google... In short: VT-x is Intel's version of AMD-V. What is AMD-V? It's a feature of AMD CPUs that *greatly* assist virtualization. It's not just VT-x, there are a *lot* of features that Intel may or may not provide on a certain model. And also all the time, Intel promotes for their Hiperthreading support, as well Intel swears on their QuickPath system they have developed and should release the FSB which is stil being used at AMD, Incorrect. AMD uses HyperTransport for a lng time. QuickPath is just Intel's version of HyperTransport. As to Hyperthreading... it was technology from Pentium 4 actually, originally called NetBurst, it splits a core into two virtual cores, leveraging Intel's long pipeline. There are benefits, but also drawbacks. even when they mention that MT (Megatransfer instead GHZ) for describing their frontside bus speed so, it is in this case not only the CPU's speed, also the Speed the data reaches the memory, and other components like the GPU of your graphics device, no?! Yes, and honestly, AMD was there first. IIRC, Intel still have some problems with cache coherency on multiple processor systems. AMD has no such problems; the HyperTransport technology used by AMD is perfectly capable of servicing NUMA Architecture. And what about Hyperthreading?! At the Gentoo make configuration guide, the intel corei7 are fully supported. The 'support' comes from gcc, and gcc fully supports AMD CPUs also. There is being described, that if Intel corei 5 or 7 CPU's are used, I could double the amount of cpu's for compiling MAKEOPTS=-j8 (for a quadcore core i5 / 7) because of it's hyperthreading support. As I wrote above, Intel's Hyperthreading splits each core into two virtual cores. Thus, if you know the number of physical cores *and* you've turned on Hyperthreading in the BIOS, you can (and should) double the number of jobs. That information is *not* due to Gentoo better supporting Intel, it's there because of Intel's complexity. AMD CPUs from the get-go already support a higher core density than Intel; they never need to split their cores into virtual cores. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. Where are the latest AMD CPU sets on Gentoo used at all ?! What about the Intel's one?! And do they make a huge difference in this case?! gcc -march=native will allow gcc to detect and leverage all features. I don't know which features are used where, except for AMD-V, which is heavily leveraged by virtualization (virtualbox or Xen, in my situation). If you can give me a deep technical answer, I would be very happy The money is not what counts. It's the system stability. My AMD cpu was very lng time ago an AMD Athlon XP which makde me a lots of headache. You're sooo out of date. Nowadays, AMD CPUs are at least as stable as Intel CPUs. Rgds, -- -- Regards, Erick Guan/管啸 (fantasticfears)
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
Hi Erick! Thank you very much for your great description that makes my decision easier. However, one last question On a modern AMD machine, would I have to enable hyperthreading support in the kernel as well, and should / must I double the cores at the MAKEOPTS flag ?! Tamer Am 13.04.2013 18:24, schrieb Pandu Poluan: On Apr 13, 2013 8:29 PM, Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com mailto:th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Dale! Am 13.04.2013 13:54, schrieb Dale: Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. What is VT-x you really should learn to use Google... In short: VT-x is Intel's version of AMD-V. What is AMD-V? It's a feature of AMD CPUs that *greatly* assist virtualization. It's not just VT-x, there are a *lot* of features that Intel may or may not provide on a certain model. And also all the time, Intel promotes for their Hiperthreading support, as well Intel swears on their QuickPath system they have developed and should release the FSB which is stil being used at AMD, Incorrect. AMD uses HyperTransport for a lng time. QuickPath is just Intel's version of HyperTransport. As to Hyperthreading... it was technology from Pentium 4 actually, originally called NetBurst, it splits a core into two virtual cores, leveraging Intel's long pipeline. There are benefits, but also drawbacks. even when they mention that MT (Megatransfer instead GHZ) for describing their frontside bus speed so, it is in this case not only the CPU's speed, also the Speed the data reaches the memory, and other components like the GPU of your graphics device, no?! Yes, and honestly, AMD was there first. IIRC, Intel still have some problems with cache coherency on multiple processor systems. AMD has no such problems; the HyperTransport technology used by AMD is perfectly capable of servicing NUMA Architecture. And what about Hyperthreading?! At the Gentoo make configuration guide, the intel corei7 are fully supported. The 'support' comes from gcc, and gcc fully supports AMD CPUs also. There is being described, that if Intel corei 5 or 7 CPU's are used, I could double the amount of cpu's for compiling MAKEOPTS=-j8 (for a quadcore core i5 / 7) because of it's hyperthreading support. As I wrote above, Intel's Hyperthreading splits each core into two virtual cores. Thus, if you know the number of physical cores *and* you've turned on Hyperthreading in the BIOS, you can (and should) double the number of jobs. That information is *not* due to Gentoo better supporting Intel, it's there because of Intel's complexity. AMD CPUs from the get-go already support a higher core density than Intel; they never need to split their cores into virtual cores. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. Where are the latest AMD CPU sets on Gentoo used at all ?! What about the Intel's one?! And do they make a huge difference in this case?! gcc -march=native will allow gcc to detect and leverage all features. I don't know which features are used where, except for AMD-V, which is heavily leveraged by virtualization (virtualbox or Xen, in my situation). If you can give me a deep technical answer, I would be very happy The money is not what counts. It's the system stability. My AMD cpu was very lng time ago an AMD Athlon XP which makde me a lots of headache. You're sooo out of date. Nowadays, AMD CPUs are at least as stable as Intel CPUs. Rgds, --
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Apr 13, 2013 11:57 PM, Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 13.04.2013 18:24, schrieb Pandu Poluan: On Apr 13, 2013 8:29 PM, Tamer Higazi th9...@googlemail.com mailto:th9...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Dale! Am 13.04.2013 13:54, schrieb Dale: Pandu Poluan wrote: I myself prefer AMD CPUs to Intel ones. Intel has this habit of 'segmenting' their processor features. E.g., Intel VT-x (Intel's buggy implementation of AMD-V) is not available across the board. What is VT-x you really should learn to use Google... In short: VT-x is Intel's version of AMD-V. What is AMD-V? It's a feature of AMD CPUs that *greatly* assist virtualization. It's not just VT-x, there are a *lot* of features that Intel may or may not provide on a certain model. And also all the time, Intel promotes for their Hiperthreading support, as well Intel swears on their QuickPath system they have developed and should release the FSB which is stil being used at AMD, Incorrect. AMD uses HyperTransport for a lng time. QuickPath is just Intel's version of HyperTransport. As to Hyperthreading... it was technology from Pentium 4 actually, originally called NetBurst, it splits a core into two virtual cores, leveraging Intel's long pipeline. There are benefits, but also drawbacks. even when they mention that MT (Megatransfer instead GHZ) for describing their frontside bus speed so, it is in this case not only the CPU's speed, also the Speed the data reaches the memory, and other components like the GPU of your graphics device, no?! Yes, and honestly, AMD was there first. IIRC, Intel still have some problems with cache coherency on multiple processor systems. AMD has no such problems; the HyperTransport technology used by AMD is perfectly capable of servicing NUMA Architecture. And what about Hyperthreading?! At the Gentoo make configuration guide, the intel corei7 are fully supported. The 'support' comes from gcc, and gcc fully supports AMD CPUs also. There is being described, that if Intel corei 5 or 7 CPU's are used, I could double the amount of cpu's for compiling MAKEOPTS=-j8 (for a quadcore core i5 / 7) because of it's hyperthreading support. As I wrote above, Intel's Hyperthreading splits each core into two virtual cores. Thus, if you know the number of physical cores *and* you've turned on Hyperthreading in the BIOS, you can (and should) double the number of jobs. That information is *not* due to Gentoo better supporting Intel, it's there because of Intel's complexity. AMD CPUs from the get-go already support a higher core density than Intel; they never need to split their cores into virtual cores. If one needs to leverage VT-x for virtualization purposes, one must be double sure that the CPU one bought supports VT-x. All latest AMD CPUs (except the laptop versions) support all AMD features. Where are the latest AMD CPU sets on Gentoo used at all ?! What about the Intel's one?! And do they make a huge difference in this case?! gcc -march=native will allow gcc to detect and leverage all features. I don't know which features are used where, except for AMD-V, which is heavily leveraged by virtualization (virtualbox or Xen, in my situation). If you can give me a deep technical answer, I would be very happy The money is not what counts. It's the system stability. My AMD cpu was very lng time ago an AMD Athlon XP which makde me a lots of headache. You're sooo out of date. Nowadays, AMD CPUs are at least as stable as Intel CPUs. Rgds, -- Hi Erick! Thank you very much for your great description that makes my decision easier. However, one last question On a modern AMD machine, would I have to enable hyperthreading support in the kernel as well, and should / must I double the cores at the MAKEOPTS flag ?! One, I'm not Erick. Two, please don't top-post. Three, AMD has no concept of Hyperthreading. Just match -j to the number of cores your CPU provides, and that's it. As I wrote, an AMD Quad Core provides actual 4 cores. An Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading actually provides only 2 physical cores, but then it performs some internal trickery so the OS sees a total of 4 cores. I much prefer having 4 actual cores than 4 virtual cores (only 2 actual cores); less chance of things messing up royally if I hit some edge cases where Hyperthreading falls flat on its face. Rgds, --
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 07:03:26AM +0200, Tamer Higazi wrote: Hi people! My old core2duo machine says slowly goodbye and I am at this lever after 7 years for buying myself a new developer machine, that should serve me well for a long time again. With intel I never had problems, all their systems were REALLY stable, and they were really worth their money up to the last cent. Same situation here -- Core2 Duo T7200 (2 GHz max, but throttled due to worn-down heatpipe). I'll be buying a new system, too, soon. As to the other issues of the thread: all intel Cores have VT-x (including Core2, by the way), which is basic virtualisation support. What only a select few have is VT-d, which is I/O virtualisation. As for the confusion about model range and hyperthreading, Wikipedia has a very nice comparison chart of all available models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Desktop_processors Basically: i3 = dual-core with HT (2 physical/4 logical cores), no turbo mode i5 = quad-core without HT (4/4, except one low-TDP model, which is 2/4) i7 = quad-core with HT (4/8) I don't know the technical details very well, but because my Netbook has a single-core CPU with HT, I read up on it a bit. As I understand it, HT allows two threads to use the same core simultaneously, if they don't use the same instruction circuitry. Hence a hyper-threaded single-core is not as fast as a proper dual-core, because sometimes one thread still has to wait. There are 3 choices: Intel Xeon E5-2650 Core i7 3979 extreme edition AMD FX.8350 CPU Everything Intel with Extreme in the name is, in my opinion, overpriced for its bang. If you really need as much bang as possible and afford it (like when you earn your money with that bang), then why not. But if you say your Core2 served you well, then you could go a more pragmatic approach of 3 times more power than before is enough for me and save a few 100 bucks, or maybe invest in a bigger SSD instead. I'm currently holding out on my Core2 though, because Haswell is on the doorstep, and I first wanna see what the market has to offer. The CPU part might not gain much in performance, but the graphics part got a big boost and all models support VT-d now (according to cpu-world.com). Plus theoretically I'm a bit more future-proof due to the new socket (which is probably the most annoying thing about the Intel world, compared to AMD). -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service. Nowadays you must motivate your people, yelling alone doesn’t help anymore. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On 04/13/2013 01:45 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: [snip] Three, AMD has no concept of Hyperthreading. Correct. Just match -j to the number of cores your CPU provides, and that's it. Well, YMMV. You can spend a lot of time adjusting -j on a per-system basis to account for things like I/O. Right now, I'm in the -j $(cores*1.5) -l $(cores) camp. As I wrote, an AMD Quad Core provides actual 4 cores. Correct. An Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading actually provides only 2 physical cores, but then it performs some internal trickery so the OS sees a total of 4 cores. Incorrect. Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading means there are four physical cores, and there is hyperthreading enabled. This results in the OS seeing eight logical cores. There is sufficient information available via ACPI (or is it DMI?) that the kernel knows which virtual cores are part of which physical cores, which physical cores are part of which CPU packages, and how everything is connected together. I much prefer having 4 actual cores than 4 virtual cores (only 2 actual cores); less chance of things messing up royally if I hit some edge cases where Hyperthreading falls flat on its face. Whatever works. I'll note that AMD's piledriver core does something very complementary to hyperthreading. Where HT uses some circuitry to avoid context switching when changing whether a core is handling one thread vs another thread, Piledriver has a small number of physical front-end cores dispatching to a larger number of backend pipelines. It's a very curious architecture, and I look forward to seeing how it plays out. HT and Piledriver are conceptually very similar when you look at them in the right way...Piledriver might be seen as a more general approach to what HT does. Personally, I've enjoyed both Intel and AMD processors. Last I assembled a system, Intel's midrange offered more bang for the buck than AMD, but Intel's midrange part was also much more expensive. OTOH, AMD systems could be upgraded for piece by piece for much, much, much longer, whereas Intel systems tended to require replacing many more parts at the same time. That was about five years ago, though...I don't know exactly where things sit today. I'd start with the cpubenchmarking.net CPU value listing, and find the best-value part that has the performance degree I'm looking for. http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html I might also cross-reference that page with this one: http://cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html If buying an Intel part, I'd be very, very careful to make sure that it supported all the features I want. I've been bit by that on this laptop...I had no idea it wouldn't have VT-x. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On 04/13/2013 01:50 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 07:03:26AM +0200, Tamer Higazi wrote: Hi people! My old core2duo machine says slowly goodbye and I am at this lever after 7 years for buying myself a new developer machine, that should serve me well for a long time again. With intel I never had problems, all their systems were REALLY stable, and they were really worth their money up to the last cent. Same situation here -- Core2 Duo T7200 (2 GHz max, but throttled due to worn-down heatpipe). I'll be buying a new system, too, soon. As to the other issues of the thread: all intel Cores have VT-x (including Core2, by the way), which is basic virtualisation support. What only a select few have is VT-d, which is I/O virtualisation. As for the confusion about model range and hyperthreading, Wikipedia has a very nice comparison chart of all available models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Desktop_processors Basically: i3 = dual-core with HT (2 physical/4 logical cores), no turbo mode i5 = quad-core without HT (4/4, except one low-TDP model, which is 2/4) i7 = quad-core with HT (4/8) I don't know the technical details very well, but because my Netbook has a single-core CPU with HT, I read up on it a bit. As I understand it, HT allows two threads to use the same core simultaneously, if they don't use the same instruction circuitry. Hence a hyper-threaded single-core is not as fast as a proper dual-core, because sometimes one thread still has to wait. There are 3 choices: Intel Xeon E5-2650 Core i7 3979 extreme edition AMD FX.8350 CPU Everything Intel with Extreme in the name is, in my opinion, overpriced for its bang. If you really need as much bang as possible and afford it (like when you earn your money with that bang), then why not. But if you say your Core2 served you well, then you could go a more pragmatic approach of 3 times more power than before is enough for me and save a few 100 bucks, or maybe invest in a bigger SSD instead. I'm currently holding out on my Core2 though, because Haswell is on the doorstep, and I first wanna see what the market has to offer. The CPU part might not gain much in performance, but the graphics part got a big boost and all models support VT-d now (according to cpu-world.com). Plus theoretically I'm a bit more future-proof due to the new socket (which is probably the most annoying thing about the Intel world, compared to AMD). Be very careful. This laptop's processor does not have VT-x...and that bit me. $ cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 42 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU B940 @ 2.00GHz stepping: 7 microcode : 0x14 cpu MHz : 800.000 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings: 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 2 apicid : 0 initial apicid : 0 fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 13 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer xsave lahf_lm arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm bogomips: 3990.81 clflush size: 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 42 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU B940 @ 2.00GHz stepping: 7 microcode : 0x14 cpu MHz : 800.000 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings: 2 core id : 1 cpu cores : 2 apicid : 2 initial apicid : 2 fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 13 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer xsave lahf_lm arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm bogomips: 3990.81 clflush size: 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: Anyway (copying from what I just sent in response to Pandu)... Personally, I've enjoyed both Intel and AMD processors. Last I assembled a system, Intel's midrange offered more bang for the buck than AMD, but Intel's midrange part was also much more expensive. OTOH, AMD systems could be upgraded for piece by piece for much, much, much longer, whereas Intel systems tended
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 02:44:20PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote: I'm currently holding out on my Core2 though, because Haswell is on the doorstep, and I first wanna see what the market has to offer. The CPU part might not gain much in performance, but the graphics part got a big boost and all models support VT-d now (according to cpu-world.com). Plus theoretically I'm a bit more future-proof due to the new socket (which is probably the most annoying thing about the Intel world, compared to AMD). Be very careful. This laptop's processor does not have VT-x...and that bit me. At some point I found out that on my laptop I couldn't use VT-x either, even though the processor was supposed to support it. Doing a bit of digging in the tubes I found out that on many laptop it was disabled, and naturally the there was no option in the BIOS to enable it (even though it is a Pro line model, Samsung P50 for those who are interested). Thankfully, I found a (Windows) tool that would change that by doing some NVRAM voodoo. […] If buying an Intel part, I'd be very, very careful to make sure that it supported all the features I want. I've been bit by that on this laptop...I had no idea it wouldn't have VT-x. Well, in my (our?) case, it's a BIOS issue. I don't expect such issues for desktop systems which you built from scratch yourself. I wouldn't see a point for the manufacturer to artificially reduce functionality, because here it is very easy to buy a directly competing product. But I think I'm getting OT. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service. In plumbing, a straight flush is better than a full house. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On 04/13/2013 05:49 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 02:44:20PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote: I'm currently holding out on my Core2 though, because Haswell is on the doorstep, and I first wanna see what the market has to offer. The CPU part might not gain much in performance, but the graphics part got a big boost and all models support VT-d now (according to cpu-world.com). Plus theoretically I'm a bit more future-proof due to the new socket (which is probably the most annoying thing about the Intel world, compared to AMD). Be very careful. This laptop's processor does not have VT-x...and that bit me. At some point I found out that on my laptop I couldn't use VT-x either, even though the processor was supposed to support it. Doing a bit of digging in the tubes I found out that on many laptop it was disabled, and naturally the there was no option in the BIOS to enable it (even though it is a Pro line model, Samsung P50 for those who are interested). Thankfully, I found a (Windows) tool that would change that by doing some NVRAM voodoo. […] If buying an Intel part, I'd be very, very careful to make sure that it supported all the features I want. I've been bit by that on this laptop...I had no idea it wouldn't have VT-x. Well, in my (our?) case, it's a BIOS issue. I don't expect such issues for desktop systems which you built from scratch yourself. I wouldn't see a point for the manufacturer to artificially reduce functionality, because here it is very easy to buy a directly competing product. But I think I'm getting OT. You can also look up the part directly on Intel's website. In my case: http://ark.intel.com/products/55626/Intel-Pentium-Processor-B940-(2M-Cache-2_00-GHz) Relevant line: Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) No signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
Am 13.04.2013 19:45, schrieb Pandu Poluan: One, I'm not Erick. Sorry Pandu Two, please don't top-post. Three, AMD has no concept of Hyperthreading. Just match -j to the number of cores your CPU provides, and that's it. okay. As I wrote, an AMD Quad Core provides actual 4 cores. An Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading actually provides only 2 physical cores, but then it performs some internal trickery so the OS sees a total of 4 cores. ok I much prefer having 4 actual cores than 4 virtual cores (only 2 actual cores); less chance of things messing up royally if I hit some edge cases where Hyperthreading falls flat on its face. Rgds, -- thank you Tamer
Re: [gentoo-user] fcitx crash----something to do with libpng cairo?
problem solved now.I searched through Internet and got the information that the crash wad caused by the newer version of cairo fcitx,which led to a failure of th eload of fcitx's skin.Anyway,developers have had it fixed and after an update of fcitx to version 4.2.7-r1,everything is cool now.Thanks for your attention:)在 Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:08:56 +0800，Erick Guan fantasticfe...@gmail.com 写道:check your ~/.config/fcitx/log if you are sure fcitx crashed. Feel free to talk at irc #fcitx On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Jackie jiangjun12...@gmail.com wrote: 在 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:47:56 +0800，Wang Xuerui idontknw.w...@gmail.com 写道: --
Re: [gentoo-user] which machine to buy for perfect gentoo machine?!
On Apr 14, 2013 1:42 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/13/2013 01:45 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: [snip] Three, AMD has no concept of Hyperthreading. Correct. Just match -j to the number of cores your CPU provides, and that's it. Well, YMMV. You can spend a lot of time adjusting -j on a per-system basis to account for things like I/O. Right now, I'm in the -j $(cores*1.5) -l $(cores) camp. As I wrote, an AMD Quad Core provides actual 4 cores. Correct. An Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading actually provides only 2 physical cores, but then it performs some internal trickery so the OS sees a total of 4 cores. Incorrect. Intel Quad Core with Hyperthreading means there are four physical cores, and there is hyperthreading enabled. This results in the OS seeing eight logical cores. There is sufficient information available via ACPI (or is it DMI?) that the kernel knows which virtual cores are part of which physical cores, which physical cores are part of which CPU packages, and how everything is connected together. Ah yes, thank you for the correction. I misstated there, my bad. What I meant was: given 4 physical AMD cores (but only 2 FPUs, courtesy of AMD's Bulldozer/Piledriver arch) vs 4 virtual Intel cores (2 cores split into 4 by Hyperthreading), I undoubtedly prefer 4 physical ones. (Of course if the Intel CPU has 4 pphysical cores, it should be compared with an 8-core AMD CPU). I had some lively discussion on AMD vs Intel *for virtualization* in the Gentoo Community on Google+, which referenced a thread on ServerFault. The conclusion was: Intel CPUs (provided they support VT-x) can run baremetal virtualization as well as AMD, in the majority of cases. It's the minority of cases -- edge cases -- that I'm concerned with. And, lacking the money to actually buy 2 complete systems to perform comparison, I'll take the safe route anytime. Yes, Intel's top-of-the-line processors might be faster than AMD's, but the latter is cheaper, and exhibited a much more 'stable' performance (i.e., no edge cases to bite me later down the road). That said, I read somewhere about the 'misimplementation' of some hypercalls in Intel CPUs... in which some hypercall exceptions are mistakenly handled by the Ring 0 hypervisor instead of the Ring 1 guest OS, thus enabling someone to 'break out' of the VM's space. This misimplementation is exploitable on KVM and Xen (the latter, my preferred baremetal virtualization). I much prefer having 4 actual cores than 4 virtual cores (only 2 actual cores); less chance of things messing up royally if I hit some edge cases where Hyperthreading falls flat on its face. Whatever works. I'll note that AMD's piledriver core does something very complementary to hyperthreading. Where HT uses some circuitry to avoid context switching when changing whether a core is handling one thread vs another thread, Piledriver has a small number of physical front-end cores dispatching to a larger number of backend pipelines. It's a very curious architecture, and I look forward to seeing how it plays out. HT and Piledriver are conceptually very similar when you look at them in the right way...Piledriver might be seen as a more general approach to what HT does. True. The main complexity is when an instruction requires access to the FPU, since there's only one FPU per two GP cores. This will somewhat impact applications that uses the FPU heavily... except if they can switch to OpenCL and leverage the embedded Radeon on AMD's so-called APUs. Personally, I've enjoyed both Intel and AMD processors. Last I assembled a system, Intel's midrange offered more bang for the buck than AMD, but Intel's midrange part was also much more expensive. OTOH, AMD systems could be upgraded for piece by piece for much, much, much longer, whereas Intel systems tended to require replacing many more parts at the same time. That was about five years ago, though...I don't know exactly where things sit today. I'd start with the cpubenchmarking.net CPU value listing, and find the best-value part that has the performance degree I'm looking for. http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html I might also cross-reference that page with this one: http://cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html True. My desktop computer died on me about 6 months ago. It was 4.5 years old at the moment of death. It had served me very well. That said, my brother had just purchased an AMD system (store-assembled) with an FX-8350, and he said that it's faster than anything he's ever used before, and he's used many high-end systems in his job (he's a Petroleum Geologist, his line of work involves analyzing a HUGE amount of data to find out the 'oil potential' of an area, to give his company a ballpark figure on how much to bid for the exploitation rights to the area). If buying an Intel part, I'd be very, very careful to make sure that it supported all the features I want. I've
