Re: [gentoo-user] Call for opinions and/or use cases regarding games.eclass

[Terry Z.]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:27 AM, Daniel Campbell  wrote:

> Most of us know about the games.eclass history. Let's put that aside;
> I'm looking for user consensus on packages that use(d) games.eclass.
>
> 1. Do you take advantage of games.eclass features, including restricting
> game access to a given group and installing games outside of /usr and/or
> on different media?
>
>
I like the game group feature.  On a multiuser system it makes it fairly
simplistic to ensure access goes to whom I want to have access to those
games.  It also behaves similarly to other services which allow non root
users to run things based on their group membership.

I do not really care much about the ability to install outside of /usr, but
I can see that being very useful.  Of course, a symlink can provide this
same feature.

2. If yes, how do you feel about the removal of the eclass? Did you rely
> on its functionality? Does your use case require it?
>

I have very few personal ebuilds that take advantage of much of the
features other than the group reqs etc.  Still, I see the value in them.


>
> 3. If yes, _what is your use case_? Which features are important to your
> use case wrt games and what can Gentoo do to improve that.
>

I make use of the games group in my personal ebuilds.  I find some of the
other features provided in games.eclass potentially useful, but do not make
immediate needs of them.


> We cannot make concrete decisions without concrete evidence, so please
> answer and speak for your use case. This will serve as a public record
> of interest, and might even inspire a few people. :)
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> ~zlg
> --
> Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
> OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
> fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6
>
>


-- 
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system
and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world.
-- seen on the net

[gentoo-user] Recommendations for a Gentoo supporting/capable VPS besides Linode?

[Terry Z.]

Hi all,

I'm know this topic has been discussed at length in the past but I feel
this is one of those things that changes so frequently and quickly it's
worth a new thread in mid '16, but I apologize if this message bores you or
clutters your inbox. :)  I also apologize if there is a more relevant list,
but this seemed appropriate when I looked at them.

VPS and cloud providers that handle Gentoo without bending over backwards
(kexec, mucking with grub installs, etc) are rare.  Linode was the provider
of choice for me for probably close to a decade now, but their track record
over the past few years has made me want to look into alternatives to test
the waters.

The big names (DO, Vultr, etc) don't seem to support Gentoo as a choice, so
I'm wondering if anyone has any preferences of service that they use.
Again, Linode has for me personally been more than fine, so I'm not in a
rush to get off them, but I'd like to see if there are any alternatives
people enjoy.

Thanks,
Terry


-- 
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system
and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world.
-- seen on the net

Re: [gentoo-user] Bluetooth disappeared because of MSWindows?

[Terry Z.]

Dell machines have lately started shipping with dual mode hardware. Most
notably the i2s and hda modes. The trick is to boot with the right acpi
revs and often it requires a cold boot to change mode.
On Dec 5, 2015 6:31 PM, "Mick"  wrote:

> I came across a rather peculiar phenomenon today with my laptop.  I
> realised
> that my bluetooth controller was nowhere to be found.  I thought running
> hciconfig would bring it up, but all it did was to complain that there was
> no
> device found.  rfkill would not list it either.
>
> Modprobing various modules did not produce a device, so searching for
> answers
> I thought of booting into MSWindows.  After I enabled the device in
> MSWindows
> I rebooted into Linux and was surprised to see the bluetooth controller was
> visible again in lspci.
>
> How come that switching off the device in one OS, affects the other?  :-/
>
> What should I do next time to enable bluetooth from within Linux?
>
>
> PS. There's a parallel to this with the same laptop.  Some years ago audio
> would randomly never come up at boot and no amount of alsactl could wake it
> up.  A swift reboot into MSWindows would reset audio and all would work
> fine
> in Linux thereafter.  Some cursory troubleshooting at the time didn't help
> me
> much.  I don't expect that the two issues are related, but thought of
> mentioning it just in case.
> --
> Regards,
> Mick
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Technical imap mail question

[Terry Z.]

It's likely worth noting that while they may resolve to the same point now,
there is nothing requiring the IMAP server (reading the mail stored on a
server) to match that is the SMTP server  (outgoing mail). They are
entirely different purposes and protocols which do not need to live in the
same place.  Makes perfect sense that they have different DNS names as they
may live on different endpoints at some point.

This is one of the entire reasons we name things with DNS anyway. :)
On Oct 15, 2015 6:02 PM, "Mick"  wrote:

> On Thursday 15 Oct 2015 18:04:22 walt wrote:
> > My ISP recently started offering imap email service in addition to
> > the pop3/smtp servers they've always had, so I decided to try it.
> >
> > I was surprised to see that they recommend using a different smtp
> > server name when setting up my mail client, and they even offer the
> > option of using port 587 instead of 465 if I prefer it.
> >
> > Why would I use a different smtp server if I'm now using imap?  I use
> > smtp to send mail, and imap to read it, right?  Why not use the same
> > smtp server in either case?
> >
> > (The different server names actually resolve to the same IP address, so
> > the distinction seems to be more theoretical than real, but the theory
> > is what puzzles me.)
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Port 587 is for TLS and is the proper port to be used by MSAs as per
> RFC6409.
>
> Port 467 on the other hand is for SMTPS:  vanilla SMTP at the application
> level, but the communication to the server is still secured at the
> transport
> layer with SSL.  This was an IANA attempt to provide a port for secure
> email
> communication pre-STARTTLS days.  Today I think may be used for other
> purposes, but I am not sure if it is TCP or UDP streaming.
>
> Port 25 (outgoing) is blocked by most domestic ISPs to guard against the
> millions of pawned botnets out there filling out inboxes with spam.
>
> The question about a different SMTP server might have something to do with
> your ISP adding a new SMTP mailserver to their farm and configuring it
> properly this time as per RFC6409.  Although as Alan said, they probably
> rolled out whatever the chosen ISP package software vendor provided for
> them
> without knowing much about it, or why it is configured the way it is
> configured.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Mick
>

Re: [gentoo-user] system uptime

[Terry Z.]

I personally find it beneficial to backup to an online source locally or in
an online storage service (as long as encryption incurs etc).

DVD are indeed limited in life.  You are still better off with other
offline storage mediums such as an external hdd or tape indeed.

I've found crashplans unlimited storage 10 machine online backup solution
to be an excellent solution for desktop machines where connectivity is not
guaranteed for cronnd rsyncs etc. Of course it relies on running a fat jar
, but it works.

As to uptime, I keep my windows desktops machine online more than my linux
desktops just due to how frequent kernel updates occur.
On Aug 30, 2015 7:11 PM, Michel Catudal mcatu...@comcast.net wrote:

 Le 2015-08-30 11:56, Peter Humphrey a écrit :

 On Sunday 30 August 2015 00:04:43 Philip Webb wrote:

 How long do desktop users typically leave their systems between reboots ?
 How long between power off/on's ?

 I've long been in the habit of switching everything off while I sleep,
 then restarting after I've woken  got going again myself.
 However recently, I've run into delays getting my router
 (only  1  device attached) to shake hands successfully with my ISP's
 server,
 which have been requiring several power off/on's before it works.
 As a result, I've started rebooting only after my weekly system update
 -- it means I get to use the new versions of everything --
  not powering off at all ; the monitor + Xscreensaver are off
 whenever I'm away from the machine for  = 1 hr  (approx).

 Are there any pro's/con's I sb aware of ?

 No-one has yet mentioned taking backups. I'm still using a brute-force
 approach, in which I shut down each of my two machines once a week to
 make a
 backup to external disk. Otherwise they're on 24 hours a day running BOINC
 projects. On the desktop PC kmail makes a daily archive of messages, and
 once
 a day a cron job copies my user directory to /home/me.bu/ .

 I know it burns energy but I'm prepared to make my small contribution to
 what
 I think is a good cause.

 Backups are vital for a server in company. At work we do a backup every
 day. At home, it depends how important your stuff is. For pictures you
 should always copy them on DVD. I regularly backup pictures for people who
 have ususable windows systems, for them the pictures are the most important
 stuff but they do not back them up.

 Personally I don't like to do regular backups because that involves too
 many DVDs. I probably should do my backups more often.
 I do have 3 2TB hard disks with important data copied on each for
 redudancy. I also have some backups on a 500G driver which is not powered
 usually. I also make some backup on DVDs sometimes.
 Anything that is of extreme importance I have in several DVDs which I make
 copies of every few months. I remembered that in the early days of CD that
 their life was rather limited and am not taking chances on DVD even though
 I think the technology is a lot better.

 --
 For Linux Software visit
 http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/suzielinux/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1

[Terry Z.]

So please contribute to the grub2 repo a pull request that meets your
requirements rather than complain about it. You are also free to maintain
any package you want in a custom overlay in gentoo that packages those
requirements. Free software is about preventing lock in and empowering the
user. You have that power nor are you locked in. So use it.

You are quickly making yourself to be an  example of the type of user that
the free software community does NOT recognize or support.

You can make grub2 do whatever you want. So please do or ask for help in
that endeavor, not complaining about mythical Microsoft things.
On Aug 29, 2015 6:17 PM, Michel Catudal mcatu...@comcast.net wrote:

 Le 2015-08-28 07:24, Tom H a écrit :

 On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Grant Edwards
 grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2015-08-27, Mike Gilbert flop...@gentoo.org wrote:

 On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Michel Catudal mcatu...@comcast.net
 wrote:

 I've had serious problems in the past getting to to install on a
 partition
 and gave up. Is that bug fixed? It insists on installing on the MBR
 which is
 unacceptable.

 It's not a bug, and it won't be fixed. Installing on a partition is
 simply not supported.

 So, grub2 refuses to share power and cooperate with another bootloader.
 Bill Gates would be pround.

 For those of us with multiple Linux installations on a disk, that's a
 pretty big reason to stick with grub-legacy.

 You can boot multiple installations via grub2 with os-prober.


 You have to be able to boot the os that grub is installed on to be able to
 fix booting issues. If the OS that has control of grub2 is wacked you are
 screwed.
 At least with a bootloader that independant of any operating system and
 with a nice graphic interface it is a piece of cake to fix things since you
 do not ever lose your bootloader unless you let grub write on the MBR or on
 your bootloader partition.

 I know that you can boot on grub if it is not wiped but the interface is
 not friendly at all and if you do not remember the syntax you are screwed.
 Until grub becomes a nice real bootloader with a friendly user interface it
 cannot be allowed to be the sole controller of booting.

 Michel

 --
 For Linux Software visit
 http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/suzielinux/

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1

[Terry Z.]

On Aug 27, 2015 6:50 PM, mcatu...@comcast.net wrote:



 
 It's not a bug, and it won't be fixed. Installing on a partition is
 simply not supported.

 When a needed functionality is no longer working it is a bug. To have
grub installing itself on the MBR when the users doesn't it to is
unacceptable because it wipes out the part that loads the bootloader so
booting to other operating systems (OS/2, PC Dos, Ecomstation, etc) is no
longer possible with a nice bootloader, we are then stuck with grub which
is a pain in the ass to setup.


Or simply an unsupported / deprecated feature.

 I want to use grub only for the current Linux that I boot on.

So try to do it, or fork it and fix it yourself? The freedom is there.


 The maintainers of grub are basically acting like dictators much like
Microsoft. The whole point of using Linux was to have complete control of
the PC. Who those morons think they are to tell me what I should use to
boot Operating systems on my computer?

I think you have this backwards. Who are you to demand others make software
behave the way you want? The only person telling you what you can use to
boot your machine is your own requirements.

Since you are so sure what the vision of this software should be, why don't
you whip up a lull request with the code to do what you want it to do?

You hold the power. Do something with it.

 Michel

Re: [gentoo-user] Epic list of total FAIL.

[Terry Z.]

Seeing segfaults in a compile like that makes me question your hardware
rather than the gentoo tools.  Are you sure your hardware is in a
functional state?  I update my world fairly often and am running ~amd64 and
have not experienced the issue you are experiencing. :(

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Alan Grimes alonz...@verizon.net wrote:

 My five year old CPU has been working it's ass off the last few days
 doing a full --emptytree world to try to purge the system of the ncurses
 clusterfuck.

 Here is the list of FAIL. A few of these might be stale listings because
 I didn't purge the directory before running this. Also a few of these
 might work if I tried it again because a document generator was in
 ncurses-fail mode when it attempted to build the relevant package. One
 of these, however, was OMFGROTFLMFAO funny... You'll see what I mean
 below. What does it say about the state of linux when the compiler is
 too broken to compile a bug reporter module? =P

 I usually tolerate a moderate failure %-age but these packages are far
 too important to the things I need to do to be acceptable. =|

 tortoise portage # pwd
 /var/tmp/portage
 tortoise portage # tree -L 2
 .
 ├── app-arch
 │   └── rpm-4.12.0.1
 ├── app-doc
 │   └── doxygen-1.8.10-r1
 ├── app-office
 │   ├── libreoffice-4.4.5.2
 │   └── texmacs-1.99.2-r1
 ├── dev-db
 │   └── mysql-workbench-6.3.4
 ├── dev-dotnet
 │   └── nuget-2.8.3
 ├── dev-java
 │   └── antlr-3.1.3-r3
 ├── dev-libs
 │   ├── libcdio-0.93
 │   ├── libcdio-paranoia-0.93_p1
 │   └── libevdev-1.4.3
 ├── dev-util
 │   ├── kdevplatform-1.7.1
 │   └── monodevelop-5.9.5.9
 ├── kde-apps
 │   ├── kdesdk-kioslaves-4.14.3
 │   └── libkdcraw-4.14.3
 ├── media-gfx
 │   └── digikam-4.12.0
 ├── media-libs
 │   ├── libkface-4.12.0
 │   └── mesa-10.6.3
 ├── media-sound
 │   └── playmidi-2.5-r2
 ├── media-video
 │   └── vcdimager-0.7.24
 ├── sci-libs
 │   └── gdal-2.0.0
 └── sys-devel
 └── llvm-3.6.2

 36 directories, 0 files
 tortoise portage #

 ###

 In file included from
 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.3/include/g++-v4/functional:55:0,
  from

 /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/../../../include/clang/Basic/SourceLocation.h:22,
  from

 /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/../../../include/clang/StaticAnalyzer/Core/BugReporter/BugReporter.h:18,
  from

 /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/BugReporter.cpp:15:
 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.3/include/g++-v4/tuple: In
 constructor ‘constexpr std::tuple_T1, _T2::tuple(_U1, _U2) [with
 _U1 = clang::ento::LikelyFalsePositiveSuppressionBRVisitor*; _U2 =
 std::default_deleteclang::ento::LikelyFalsePositiveSuppressionBRVisitor;
 template-parameter-2-3 = void; _T1 = clang::ento::BugReporterVisitor*;
 _T2 = std::default_deleteclang::ento::BugReporterVisitor]’:
 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.3/include/g++-v4/tuple:539:19:
 internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
  constexpr tuple(_U1 __a1, _U2 __a2)
^
 Please submit a full bug report,
 with preprocessed source if appropriate.
 See https://bugs.gentoo.org/ for instructions.
 /bin/rm: cannot remove

 ‘/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src-abi_x86_64.amd64/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/Release/BugReporter.d.tmp’:
 No such file or directory

 /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src/Makefile.rules:1514:
 recipe for target

 '/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src-abi_x86_64.amd64/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/Release/BugReporter.o'
 failed
 make[5]: ***

 [/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/llvm-3.6.2/work/llvm-3.6.2.src-abi_x86_64.amd64/tools/clang/lib/StaticAnalyzer/Core/Release/BugReporter.o]
 Error 1
 make[5]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs

 --
 IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel.

 Powers are not rights.





-- 
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system
and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world.
-- seen on the net

Re: [gentoo-user] The state of public relations?

[Terry Z.]

In my opinion the installer is the last reason people do not use Gentoo.
Look at the other distros out there without a graphical installer.  One of
them is one of the most popular distros out there.

Gentoo experiences a difficulty pulling in more users for many reasons.

Firstly there is a large majority that do not understand Gentoo's package
system.  They know they have to compile things.  They may not even be aware
that emerge exists.  On top of this, they feel it takes an exorbitant
amount of time to install things.  Then, they ask what the benefits to this
method are.  They do not understand the benefits that use flags provide or
the time they save.   They see it as not worthwhile.  I often hear that
makes sense in an embedded environment but that's it.

People need to understand the benefits of Gentoo more clearly.  A clear
depiction of the philosophy and goals (which in my mind is fairly evident
already) helps with this.  We need to as users explain the benefits of
Gentoo vs the so called perceived cons.



On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Saturday 25 Jul 2015 17:35:51 Stroller wrote:
  On Fri, 24 July 2015, at 3:35 pm, J.Rutkowski j...@pancakebungalow.com
 wrote:
   On Fri, Jul 24, 2015, at 07:56 AM, James wrote:
   Rich, I'll be practical. Gentoo needs an installer program, like most
   other distros if you want your rank_n_file users to entice new users.
   …
  
   I absolutely think that an installer is necessary to attract
   newcomers and keep them.
 
  I recall similar discussions back around 2004.
 
  Gentoo was fashionable for a while then, and we had plenty of new users.
 
  It wasn't for the lack of installer that they went away - fashions
 change,
  but at the end of the day it's only a certain kind of niche user who
 finds
  Gentoo suits them long term.
 
  If you create a slick GUI installer, then users will only be disappointed
  with they finish installing their KDE-Gentoo desktop and are told oh,
  package installs and system upgrades must be done in a terminal, and
  sometimes you have to do stuff to work around these Portage blocks.
 
  Why doesn't Gentoo have a nice graphical package manager? the n00bs
 will
  cry, just like all the other distros!
 
  What will happen when you meet that request? Complaints that, after
  clicking the button in the GUI package manager, Gentoo takes much longer
  to install Firefox that Ubuntu does.
 
  If you want to attract to Gentoo the kind of people for whom a graphical
  installer is important, then IMO these are the first things you need to
  address.
 
  Stroller.

 Others mentioned it and Stroller finessed it:

 There are different use cases and Gentoo does not fit nicely in all of
 them.

 A GUI installer, or automated install script will suit noobs for some of
 whom
 Gentoo is not an appropriate distro, leading to disappointment and
 potentially
 bad press.  In any case, I think that Sabayon would probably suit them
 nicely
 if they want to quickly dip their toes into a Gentoo-based distro.

 A GUI installer, or automated but configurable install script, will also
 suit
 people who need a quick VM, or cloud set up.  Arguably, they should already
 know how to create their own VM image to suit their requirements - it's the
 first off that will take some time to think through, thereafter they will
 have
 their own stage-4 VM image.  Nevertheless, I accept that it will offer some
 convenience in terms of speed.

 Then it is all other Gentoo users for whom the current handbook is what
 they
 learn or expect as the norm.  If they are new to Gentoo, the handbook acts
 both as a filter for users to whom Gentoo is unsuitable and as an
 educational
 experience for those that stick with it.

 I am not entirely sure that people who click on three buttons to get a RHL
 cluster going would be flocking to Gentoo.  I mean, fine they got their
 Gentoo
 cluster up  running.  What then?  Will they be compiling software on the
 cluster for each and every update?  Or will they be running the updates on
 a
 test/pre-prod server and then update the cluster using the precompiled
 binaries?

 Ultimately, as Rich suggested, whoever has an itch will scratch it and
 scratch
 it in a way to provide the tools they need for their specific use
 case(s).  As
 long as Gentoo does not try to imitate and duplicate the *buntu  RHL's of
 this world I would have nothing to complain about.  Personally I am rather
 happy for Gentoo being as it is and this the reason I've been using it for
 12
 happy years.  :-)

 --
 Regards,
 Mick




-- 
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system
and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world.
-- seen on the net

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The state of public relations?

[Terry Z.]

Honestly I would hate to see an installer become necessary.  Other distros
do not have issues with minimalistic or no installer causing user
acquisition issues.

What would be nice to see is the current minimal installer updated to
support modern hardware (I believe some recent adjustments were made to
that though so it may be a moot point.)

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
  Am 24.07.2015 um 14:56 schrieb James:
  Rich Freeman rich0 at gentoo.org writes:
 
  Just be practical.  From my experience showing up at a LUG and telling
 20
  people how something worked well for you gets you a lot further than
  handing out free T-shirts and hats at a booth.
  Rich, I'll be practical. Gentoo needs an installer program, like most
  other distros if you want your rank_n_file users to entice new users.
  nope.
 
  Gentoo does not need an 'installer'. We have way too many people not
  being able to read simple instructions already or spending 5minutes on
  googlethinking for themselves. Just look at this mailing list. We
  really don't need more of them.
 
 
 
 


 I have to add, back when they tried the installer before, I never got it
 to work.  Anytime I did a install, I did it the current way, by hand
 following the docs.  At the end, I had a fully bootable system with a
 handmade kernel and carried on with my install.  Not once did that
 installer work.  My hardware at the time was not super old but old
 enough to be well supported.  Everything worked once I did the install
 the old fashioned way.

 I might add, installing Gentoo teaches a lot to a new person.  I can
 install Madriva or whatever it is called now in less than a hour but I
 have very little information on how to fix something or correct a setup
 problem.  Having a installer may give someone a reason to beat on their
 chest and say we have a installer but it really does little else.

 Just my opinion on the topic.

 Dale

 :-)  :-)





-- 
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system
and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world.
-- seen on the net