Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 02:19:47 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. I really liked Amarok 1 and they started over for Amarok 2 and I dislike just about everything they've done to it. The tree-view collection list is awful, the UI is bad (middle 50% of screen is wasted), playlist is not intuitive. Does not support titles in cue files. The only thing they've done better is Last.fm works better... but I am about [--] this close to going back to Amarok 1 and taking on board the KDE3 libs it brings with it. One more big gripe about Amarok 2: it is a music player which cannot play music CDs. What's up with that? I just tried Amarok 2.1 and they haven't fixed anything... Something as simple as loading an album into the playlist, with the tracks in the proper order, is seemingly impossible. I am so frustrated with it. I tried really hard to use Amarok 2 the way the developers intended. But I failed. I couldn't really figure out what was the way they intended at all so I had to guess. The final straws were: - same as you - can't actually play anything except mp3/ogg - interface designed by an idiot with half the real estate blank in the middle - Tag editor simply does not work right. I can't edit an album, change the name of the album and have it show up in all tracks. - the final straw of the final straws was the idiocy about how the Amarok devs think you should use mysql. So Amarok is a project that seems to have lost it's focus, has no idea what the project is even supposed to do, and is being coded by a bunch of fools who have no idea. I went back to 1.4, masked everything =1.5 and life is good again. mpd is also worth a second look. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 02:19:47 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get Amarok 2... Personally the change over to dolphin is disappointing. So far I've been able to mostly ignore it and use konqueror with one major exception, fish and sftp no longer work in konqueror. Only sftp works in dolphin. In the past (3.x), I always found fish to be bulletproof while sftp occasionally would flake. A minor gripe with Konsole is it not remembering the Show in Menu setting for profiles. Makes working with several custom profiles a pain. On using the plasmoids on the desktop, dock the Show Plasmoids Desktop plasmoid. Basically one click and you have access to all your plasmoids. Almost as good as the mac... One trick that I do with the plasmoids is place the CPU monitor on the right edge of my screen, then when I place windows I leave about a half inch uncovered on the right so I can see the most recent processor load. Overall I'm liking KDE4. Just need to get k3b ported over then I can finally ditch kdelibs-3.5... Have fun, Roy
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
090414 Roy Wright wrote: the change over to dolphin is disappointing. So far I've been able to mostly ignore it and use konqueror with one major exception, fish and sftp no longer work in konqueror. Only sftp works in dolphin. In the past (3.x), I always found fish bulletproof, while sftp occasionally would flake. I use Krusader, which employs Fish very effectively. I am very impressed with Thunar, the work of 1 man, Bernard Meurer (it doesn't do Fish AFAIK, but more abilities are promised). A minor gripe with Konsole is it not remembering the Show in Menu setting for profiles. Makes working with several custom profiles a pain. Yes, that's another for my long list of complaints. I have 4 Konsoles running, ordinary user, root, Mutt Lynx: each needs a different profile to get the correct colors app restarted, but I couldn't find out how to set up the profiles to achieve this. using plasmoids on the desktop, dock Show Plasmoids Desktop plasmoid. Basically one click and you have access to all your plasmoids. Almost as good as the Mac I didn't get as far as plasmoids it's many years since I used a Mac. One trick is place the CPU monitor plasmoid on the R edge of my screen, then leave c 0,5 in uncovered by windows to see the processor load. I have Gkrellm running on Desktop 8 , which shows that very clearly. I plan to remerge the 4.2.1 pkgs with USE=kdeprefix, then test it a bit further to see how far I can fix its ugliness; I didn't try out Kate or Konqueror yesterday, mb Okular cb set up better. I've always been impressed by the KDE developers, esp with 3.5.x , hope they will steadily restore its choices taste by 4.3 or 4.4 . Perhaps KDE is now where Xfce was with its 4.2 (2004: now 4.6). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 08:56:51 Roy Wright wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 02:19:47 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get Amarok 2... Personally the change over to dolphin is disappointing. So far I've been able to mostly ignore it and use konqueror with one major exception, fish and sftp no longer work in konqueror. Only sftp works in dolphin. In the past (3.x), I always found fish to be bulletproof while sftp occasionally would flake. I don't like dolphin either, it reminds me too much of Nautilus. But konqueror is showing it's age, and as a browser it's now almost useless. It's JavaScript is horribly broken and using flash is just too painful to contemplate. A minor gripe with Konsole is it not remembering the Show in Menu setting for profiles. Makes working with several custom profiles a pain. On using the plasmoids on the desktop, dock the Show Plasmoids Desktop plasmoid. Basically one click and you have access to all your plasmoids. Almost as good as the mac... I've had various Uncover the Desktop button/widget/plasmoids on my taskbar permanently for at least 10 years now. Trouble is, I never ever use it in real life :-) One trick that I do with the plasmoids is place the CPU monitor on the right edge of my screen, then when I place windows I leave about a half inch uncovered on the right so I can see the most recent processor load. gkrellm is *excellent* at that, plus it's very frugal with it's screen real estate. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Dienstag 14 April 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 08:56:51 Roy Wright wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 02:19:47 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get Amarok 2... Personally the change over to dolphin is disappointing. So far I've been able to mostly ignore it and use konqueror with one major exception, fish and sftp no longer work in konqueror. Only sftp works in dolphin. In the past (3.x), I always found fish to be bulletproof while sftp occasionally would flake. really? well, it doesn't matter for me. For most quick'n'dirty file browsing dolphin is good enough - and for the serious stuff I have the konqueror-profiles plasmoid. I don't like dolphin either, it reminds me too much of Nautilus. But konqueror is showing it's age, and as a browser it's now almost useless. It's JavaScript is horribly broken and using flash is just too painful to contemplate. its javascript is broken? could you show me such a broken page? Because I am using konqueror as main browser every freaking day (without flash). I do have firefox installed, but I use it only and exclusively for youtibe. However, just as a headsup - 4.2.69 is doing nicely. And one thing I love is the stability. Todays prereleases of KDE are more stable then the 2X.0 and 3.X.0 releases.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Dienstag 14 April 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:09 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I don't like dolphin either, it reminds me too much of Nautilus. But konqueror is showing it's age, and as a browser it's now almost useless. It's JavaScript is horribly broken and using flash is just too painful to contemplate. its javascript is broken? could you show me such a broken page? Because I am using konqueror as main browser every freaking day (without flash). I do have firefox installed, but I use it only and exclusively for youtibe. gmail https://www.1time.aero/aqueduct/1time/Booking - try to get the dropdowns to behave properly I have a mailadmin web front end on my intranet, this doesn't log me in jamendo.com - download does not download anything e17-stuff.org - downloads from divshare do not download hm, I can use gmail just fine - for the very reduced subset of 'using' since I use kmail to do all the email stuff - no need to use the webfrontend.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 11:06:03 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Dienstag 14 April 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:09 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I don't like dolphin either, it reminds me too much of Nautilus. But konqueror is showing it's age, and as a browser it's now almost useless. It's JavaScript is horribly broken and using flash is just too painful to contemplate. its javascript is broken? could you show me such a broken page? Because I am using konqueror as main browser every freaking day (without flash). I do have firefox installed, but I use it only and exclusively for youtibe. gmail https://www.1time.aero/aqueduct/1time/Booking - try to get the dropdowns to behave properly I have a mailadmin web front end on my intranet, this doesn't log me in jamendo.com - download does not download anything e17-stuff.org - downloads from divshare do not download hm, I can use gmail just fine - for the very reduced subset of 'using' since I use kmail to do all the email stuff - no need to use the webfrontend. I do the same as you. But when I visit gmail in the browser, I really do want the nice features to work like they do in firefox. The Basic HTML is a whole lot too ... basic ... for my tastes -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:09 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I don't like dolphin either, it reminds me too much of Nautilus. But konqueror is showing it's age, and as a browser it's now almost useless. It's JavaScript is horribly broken and using flash is just too painful to contemplate. its javascript is broken? could you show me such a broken page? Because I am using konqueror as main browser every freaking day (without flash). I do have firefox installed, but I use it only and exclusively for youtibe. gmail https://www.1time.aero/aqueduct/1time/Booking - try to get the dropdowns to behave properly I have a mailadmin web front end on my intranet, this doesn't log me in jamendo.com - download does not download anything e17-stuff.org - downloads from divshare do not download -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
I got KDE 4.2.1 installed with only a couple of bugs along the way. I'm not impressed: there's some eye-candy, but usability is reduced. There's a very limited choice of desktop backgrounds: I like the 'No picture, pavement' choice in 3.5.10 with different colors, but there's nothing similar in 4.2.1 . I did something unexpected froze a new panel -- 1 CPU at 100 % -- managed to get back to normal only by deleting ~/.kde4/share . Dolphin is pathetic compared with Thunar, let alone Krusader (I've never tried Konqueror as a file manager). I can't try the new Gwenview, as some of the new files clash with the old I'm certainly not unmerging the KDE 3 version. I've gone back to 3.5.10 more or less, but am stuck with 4.2.1's desktop: the background, R-click menu 4.2.1 panel are still there working (no, trying to change it with the 3.5.10 CC has no effect). Can anyone suggest what I have to delete to get all of 3.5.10 restored ? I have a lot of respect for KDE developers over the past few years, but they've badly underestimated the size of their task for KDE 4 . Perhaps I should try Xfce 4.6 with some KDE 4 apps ... (smile) -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I got KDE 4.2.1 installed with only a couple of bugs along the way. I'm not impressed: there's some eye-candy, but usability is reduced. There's a very limited choice of desktop backgrounds: I like the 'No picture, pavement' choice in 3.5.10 with different colors, but there's nothing similar in 4.2.1 . I did something unexpected froze a new panel -- 1 CPU at 100 % -- managed to get back to normal only by deleting ~/.kde4/share . Dolphin is pathetic compared with Thunar, let alone Krusader (I've never tried Konqueror as a file manager). I can't try the new Gwenview, as some of the new files clash with the old I'm certainly not unmerging the KDE 3 version. I've gone back to 3.5.10 more or less, but am stuck with 4.2.1's desktop: the background, R-click menu 4.2.1 panel are still there working (no, trying to change it with the 3.5.10 CC has no effect). Can anyone suggest what I have to delete to get all of 3.5.10 restored ? I have a lot of respect for KDE developers over the past few years, but they've badly underestimated the size of their task for KDE 4 . Perhaps I should try Xfce 4.6 with some KDE 4 apps ... (smile) I would suggest totally getting rid of everything KDE3 related before trying to go KDE4... I also had lots of problems and conflicts with both installed. Once I got rid of all traces of KDE3 and started fresh with KDE4, it has been working well. I really didn't care for the whole look and feel at first, but it has grown on me. Me, I set it to random background every 10 minutes. Honestly the background is rarely ever seen on my screen so it's not a big deal to me. I like maximized windows. :) For the same reason I don't use the desktop widgets at all, and I find dockable taskbar stuff from KDE3 to be more useful... because a bunch of gigantic widgets on my desktop which are always covered by windows seems totally stupid and useless to me. Overall I think KDE3 was much faster in performance (probably lack of 3D effects) and more productive to use... I'm sticking with KDE4 for now simply because it's the new thing... but there's no compelling reason for me to use it instead of KDE3. I don't use GUI filemanager so I have no opinion on dolphin. New gwenview works fine for me, again I nuked the old stuff first. I actually use gqview instead of gwenview, though. KDE4 versions of k3b, digikam, k9copy, koffice all seem to work well for me. The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. I really liked Amarok 1 and they started over for Amarok 2 and I dislike just about everything they've done to it. The tree-view collection list is awful, the UI is bad (middle 50% of screen is wasted), playlist is not intuitive. Does not support titles in cue files. The only thing they've done better is Last.fm works better... but I am about [--] this close to going back to Amarok 1 and taking on board the KDE3 libs it brings with it.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
090413 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I got KDE 4.2.1 installed with only a couple of bugs along the way. I'm not impressed: there's some eye-candy, but usability is reduced. I would suggest totally getting rid of everything KDE3 related before trying to go KDE4. I also had lots of problems with both installed. I'm much more likely to go the other way ... (smile) Honestly the background is rarely ever seen on my screen I like maximized windows. Same here, but I keep a small slice visible on some desktops -- I've had 10 for many years -- it's all there on the 2 spares. Overall I think KDE3 was much faster in performance Didn't I mention that too ... (grimace) ? I also didn't mention that Kmahjongg 4.2.1 doesn't allow you to edit the layout its traditional tiles are ugly. Nor is Okular a match for Kpdf 3.5.10 . I tried (re)moving .kderc.kde4 , but it doesn't alter the background: does anyone else have any suggestions how to restore the KDE 3 version ? I'm quite willing to try new things, but KDE 4.2.1 is definitely a beta. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I also didn't mention that Kmahjongg 4.2.1 doesn't allow you to edit the layout its traditional tiles are ugly. Oh, I forgot about the games... Kolf is really really ugly now on KDE4... they changed the colors for no apparent reason. Nor is Okular a match for Kpdf 3.5.10 . Okular's CHM handling is terrible (unusable), kchmviewer was 1000x better. I haven't had any issues with it and PDFs so far. I tried (re)moving .kderc.kde4 , but it doesn't alter the background: does anyone else have any suggestions how to restore the KDE 3 version ? Did you use kdeprefix USE flag with kde4? I think it is required for having multiple KDE versions... otherwise it all gets mixed together. Also, I think there was some updated KDE 3.5.10 startup scripts at some point that fixed KDE4 compatibility, possibly you had yours installed before that. I could be wrong on that though since I abandoned KDE3 before 3.5.10 arrived.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I got KDE 4.2.1 installed with only a couple of bugs along the way. I'm not impressed: there's some eye-candy, but usability is reduced. There's a very limited choice of desktop backgrounds: I like the 'No picture, pavement' choice in 3.5.10 with different colors, but there's nothing similar in 4.2.1 . I did something unexpected froze a new panel -- 1 CPU at 100 % -- managed to get back to normal only by deleting ~/.kde4/share . Dolphin is pathetic compared with Thunar, let alone Krusader (I've never tried Konqueror as a file manager). I can't try the new Gwenview, as some of the new files clash with the old I'm certainly not unmerging the KDE 3 version. I've gone back to 3.5.10 more or less, but am stuck with 4.2.1's desktop: the background, R-click menu 4.2.1 panel are still there working (no, trying to change it with the 3.5.10 CC has no effect). Can anyone suggest what I have to delete to get all of 3.5.10 restored ? I have a lot of respect for KDE developers over the past few years, but they've badly underestimated the size of their task for KDE 4 . Perhaps I should try Xfce 4.6 with some KDE 4 apps ... (smile) I would suggest totally getting rid of everything KDE3 related before trying to go KDE4... I also had lots of problems and conflicts with both installed. Once I got rid of all traces of KDE3 and started fresh with KDE4, it has been working well. I suspect using the kdeprefix USE flag would fix a lot of that. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Monday 13 April 2009 19:14:25 Dale wrote: Paul Hartman wrote: I would suggest totally getting rid of everything KDE3 related before trying to go KDE4... I also had lots of problems and conflicts with both installed. Once I got rid of all traces of KDE3 and started fresh with KDE4, it has been working well. I suspect using the kdeprefix USE flag would fix a lot of that. No it won't. It just moves different things around in your PATH and you have the same basic problem with problematic things having a different name. USE=kdeprefix will install KDE-4 into /usr/kde/slot just like 3.5 always did. You still have to manipulate your PATH so that the install dir for the version you are using comes before other versions and /usr/ itself. USE=-kdeprefix will install KDE-4 into /usr/ just like the vast majority of apps in portage do. In this case you have to ensure that /usr/ is FIRST in your PATH before other KDE slots (otherwise the loader will find the wrong version of identically named KDE apps from other versions first). This approach is sensible as it's a bit pointless having more than one KDE-4 version installed. How many bash versions do you have? The kdeprefix USE flag is not the problem. The handling of the PATH is the problem. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Monday 13 April 2009 19:02:06 Philip Webb wrote: I'm quite willing to try new things, but KDE 4.2.1 is definitely a beta. It's more than that. It's an experimental approach to a new way of thinking about desktops. KDE-4 is NOT a New! Improved! KDE-3.5.x. It's so different that still calling it KDE is itself a point of confusion. But that's a different point altogether (and the name is not likely to ever change). To have the features and stability of KDE-3.5, one must run KDE-3.5. To move from KDE-3.5 to KDE-4, one must ignore the superficial similarities (apps do kinda look the same) and see the underlying truth - that migration requires as much of a shift in your thinking as moving from KDE to Gnome or XFCE. It's not so much that the KDE-4 code is a beta. The very ideas about how KDE-4 works at all are still in alpha. No-one knows the future and no-one knows what users want from their computers in the future, so the KDE devs made a considered best estimate about what would be useful in the future and built a platform that will (hopefully) prove useful. KDE-4 is scarcely a year old, it's a marvel that it works at all considering the deep invasive changes that were necessary. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2.1 : beta is as beta does
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: The only app I am really disappointed with is Amarok 2. I really liked Amarok 1 and they started over for Amarok 2 and I dislike just about everything they've done to it. The tree-view collection list is awful, the UI is bad (middle 50% of screen is wasted), playlist is not intuitive. Does not support titles in cue files. The only thing they've done better is Last.fm works better... but I am about [--] this close to going back to Amarok 1 and taking on board the KDE3 libs it brings with it. One more big gripe about Amarok 2: it is a music player which cannot play music CDs. What's up with that? I just tried Amarok 2.1 and they haven't fixed anything... Something as simple as loading an album into the playlist, with the tracks in the proper order, is seemingly impossible. I am so frustrated with it.
